The Sopranos
May 17, 2004 8:42 AM Subscribe
Anyone know where I can find some good discussion/analysis about last night's fantastic episode of The Sopranos? alt.tv.sopranos is full of people who hate the show, and the posts to TWOP's forum are always way too long for me to get anything useful out of them.
Also slate.com has had commentary every week on Sopranos episodes, with special guest commentary by either a series writer, mobster lawyer, etc. I think this was last week's analysis. Seems like this week's should get posted pretty soon.
posted by onlyconnect at 8:59 AM on May 17, 2004
posted by onlyconnect at 8:59 AM on May 17, 2004
Response by poster: Are we looking at the same TWOP? The posts don't seem that long there to me. Just read the short ones!
I should have said "threads", not "posts. Right now, the thread for last night's episode is 23 pages long, and it's just too much to sift though, especially since most of the posts will be people merely reviewing the episode as opposed to discussing it. I'll check out the thing on Slate, though.
posted by emptybowl at 9:06 AM on May 17, 2004
I should have said "threads", not "posts. Right now, the thread for last night's episode is 23 pages long, and it's just too much to sift though, especially since most of the posts will be people merely reviewing the episode as opposed to discussing it. I'll check out the thing on Slate, though.
posted by emptybowl at 9:06 AM on May 17, 2004
Well as long as this thread is here let's discuss it here.
There was a 2-1 split (not in favor) of this episode among my hardcore viewing Sopranos-Deadwood posse. There's not that many episodes left yet the story keeps meandering. I still really like the show and am not going to start trashing it, but this episode did nothing to propel the story line. First some thoughts about this season.
It seems fairly reasonable that the whole Adrianna-FBI thing will end up being the death/conviction of Tony. They keep bringing it up intermittently so that we don't forget it, yet it never shows Adrianna telling anything of substance. This leads me to believe they want to drag it out as long as possible and not corner that plot angle in case they want to kill Adrianna off and end the FBI investigation. The involvement of Buscemi was genius and added some life where there used to be more characters who are now dead. The fact that Christopher has come clean and stayed clean despite the whole Tony-Adrianna car accident thing might be foreshadowing as to him coming out of the series clean, or at least the last one alive.
Ok so about last night's episode. I saw the fact that the writers were emphasizing Tony's Lady MacBeth guilt starting to come through. It's been awhile since I read MacBeth but I don't remember it turning out so happy. But being that the whole episode was a dream sequence seemed like an easy way out for the writer's to fill in an episode where they didn't want to develop anything new, which could either be a sign of something big happening, or just another Christopher-Paulie woods chase thing, the Sopranos equivalent of a clip show.
I was totally lost on a lot of symbolism in the show. The "I don't want him coming out with a cock in his hand" was an allusion to the Godfather obviously, but Tony can't find the gun behind the toilet and thusly can't kill the corrupt cop. No idea what that means beyond that it was just a dream. I think the fact that he couldn't kill his track coach (which my friend pointed out was what Uncle Junior was taunting Tony about when they didn't realize he had Alzheimer's) could mean really anything. The fact that Carmela told Tony there was no way he could have Pei Omi (sp?, the horse) inside the house seemed to indicate that the marriage was over. The horse symbolizing unconditional love, which Carmela forbids from the house?
Or it could all be just one big dream sequence. The Sopranos is really hit or miss, but is far above regular TV even when it misses.
posted by geoff. at 9:29 AM on May 17, 2004
There was a 2-1 split (not in favor) of this episode among my hardcore viewing Sopranos-Deadwood posse. There's not that many episodes left yet the story keeps meandering. I still really like the show and am not going to start trashing it, but this episode did nothing to propel the story line. First some thoughts about this season.
It seems fairly reasonable that the whole Adrianna-FBI thing will end up being the death/conviction of Tony. They keep bringing it up intermittently so that we don't forget it, yet it never shows Adrianna telling anything of substance. This leads me to believe they want to drag it out as long as possible and not corner that plot angle in case they want to kill Adrianna off and end the FBI investigation. The involvement of Buscemi was genius and added some life where there used to be more characters who are now dead. The fact that Christopher has come clean and stayed clean despite the whole Tony-Adrianna car accident thing might be foreshadowing as to him coming out of the series clean, or at least the last one alive.
Ok so about last night's episode. I saw the fact that the writers were emphasizing Tony's Lady MacBeth guilt starting to come through. It's been awhile since I read MacBeth but I don't remember it turning out so happy. But being that the whole episode was a dream sequence seemed like an easy way out for the writer's to fill in an episode where they didn't want to develop anything new, which could either be a sign of something big happening, or just another Christopher-Paulie woods chase thing, the Sopranos equivalent of a clip show.
I was totally lost on a lot of symbolism in the show. The "I don't want him coming out with a cock in his hand" was an allusion to the Godfather obviously, but Tony can't find the gun behind the toilet and thusly can't kill the corrupt cop. No idea what that means beyond that it was just a dream. I think the fact that he couldn't kill his track coach (which my friend pointed out was what Uncle Junior was taunting Tony about when they didn't realize he had Alzheimer's) could mean really anything. The fact that Carmela told Tony there was no way he could have Pei Omi (sp?, the horse) inside the house seemed to indicate that the marriage was over. The horse symbolizing unconditional love, which Carmela forbids from the house?
Or it could all be just one big dream sequence. The Sopranos is really hit or miss, but is far above regular TV even when it misses.
posted by geoff. at 9:29 AM on May 17, 2004
Even the bad episodes are entertaining.
Hasn't the "dream episode" become SOP on the show as a device that turns Tony into doing something he personally despises -- i.e. when he killed his best friend big Pussy. So Buscemi got 1, maybe 2 more episodes in him.
posted by herc at 9:34 AM on May 17, 2004
Hasn't the "dream episode" become SOP on the show as a device that turns Tony into doing something he personally despises -- i.e. when he killed his best friend big Pussy. So Buscemi got 1, maybe 2 more episodes in him.
posted by herc at 9:34 AM on May 17, 2004
David Chase had writing credits in last night's episode. My wife made the observation that his writing tends to be more meandering and symbolic than other writers'. It reminded her of the first season of the show.
posted by SteveInMaine at 9:57 AM on May 17, 2004
posted by SteveInMaine at 9:57 AM on May 17, 2004
Response by poster: or just another Christopher-Paulie woods chase thing, the Sopranos equivalent of a clip show.
Are you kidding me? That's my favorite episode of The Sopranos ever.
posted by emptybowl at 10:10 AM on May 17, 2004
Are you kidding me? That's my favorite episode of The Sopranos ever.
posted by emptybowl at 10:10 AM on May 17, 2004
Oh I didn't mean it as bad, in fact I quite liked that episode. I meant it was an isolated episode from the rest of the series.
posted by geoff. at 10:44 AM on May 17, 2004
posted by geoff. at 10:44 AM on May 17, 2004
I thought the whole episode was similar to the sweat lodge thing that Native Americans go through before battle, where they push their physical limits in order to see visions, except in Tony's case instead of a sweaty smoky teepee, it was a fab suite at the Plaza overlooking the park, with a visit from a prostitute and all the Tablerone (sp?) bars he could eat. Why else would he be at the Plaza, anyway? The best room in the best hotel probably in the world? Answer: He was deliberately entering the sweat lodge. As best he knew how.
Clearly Tony B. is going to get it sometime in the next two weeks. Too bad it's been telegraphed so blatantly, it's going to be anticlimactic.
Also, if I was running the show he would have awakened next to Suzanne Pleshette, but I'm obviously not running the show.
By the way, I'm dragging all you guys into MeTa for corrupting this thread.
posted by stupidsexyFlanders at 11:26 AM on May 17, 2004
Clearly Tony B. is going to get it sometime in the next two weeks. Too bad it's been telegraphed so blatantly, it's going to be anticlimactic.
Also, if I was running the show he would have awakened next to Suzanne Pleshette, but I'm obviously not running the show.
By the way, I'm dragging all you guys into MeTa for corrupting this thread.
posted by stupidsexyFlanders at 11:26 AM on May 17, 2004
Response by poster: Yay! The first time a post started by me has been MeTa'd!
The fact that Carmela told Tony there was no way he could have Pei Omi (sp?, the horse) inside the house seemed to indicate that the marriage was over. The horse symbolizing unconditional love, which Carmela forbids from the house?
Not quite, I don't think. There was a few instances where of using homonyms in the episodes. "She loves it when you pat her muscle/muzzle" followed closely by "You can't ride your horse/whores in the house". I took it as Tony realizing that if he wants to get back Carm he'll have to get off his "high horse" and admit that his infidelities over the years were wrong.
posted by emptybowl at 11:47 AM on May 17, 2004
The fact that Carmela told Tony there was no way he could have Pei Omi (sp?, the horse) inside the house seemed to indicate that the marriage was over. The horse symbolizing unconditional love, which Carmela forbids from the house?
Not quite, I don't think. There was a few instances where of using homonyms in the episodes. "She loves it when you pat her muscle/muzzle" followed closely by "You can't ride your horse/whores in the house". I took it as Tony realizing that if he wants to get back Carm he'll have to get off his "high horse" and admit that his infidelities over the years were wrong.
posted by emptybowl at 11:47 AM on May 17, 2004
Too bad it's been telegraphed so blatantly, it's going to be anticlimactic.
No no no - now we get to agonise with Tony. Some people say that this week's Sopranos was just Lynch by numbers - which makes me feel a bit stupid for saying I thought it was great. But I did.
We've all got memories, but TV characters generally don't - well the dream sequence was a trawl through Tony's memories, and hence his psyche. Which is what the show is supposed to be, in a nutshell. I see the dream show as a 'calm before the storm' moment - things are going to happen in a big way at some point - and it's fine that we have to wait. Life's like that.
posted by ascullion at 2:08 PM on May 18, 2004
No no no - now we get to agonise with Tony. Some people say that this week's Sopranos was just Lynch by numbers - which makes me feel a bit stupid for saying I thought it was great. But I did.
We've all got memories, but TV characters generally don't - well the dream sequence was a trawl through Tony's memories, and hence his psyche. Which is what the show is supposed to be, in a nutshell. I see the dream show as a 'calm before the storm' moment - things are going to happen in a big way at some point - and it's fine that we have to wait. Life's like that.
posted by ascullion at 2:08 PM on May 18, 2004
This thread is closed to new comments.
Seriously, I usually come away from there with some good insights and things I missed. Terrible answer, but maybe take another look at TWOP? Hope you find what you need.
posted by stupidsexyFlanders at 8:53 AM on May 17, 2004