How does warp drive work?
June 1, 2007 6:02 AM Subscribe
How does warp drive work?
I had thought that warp was merely about using astrophysical phenomena to bend or warp space, but I don't understand why there are gradients between 1 and 9, and why Warp 9 is the theoretical maximum? Any resources that can help answer this eternal question. While we're at it, what, exactly is full impulse power? What velocity is that?
I had thought that warp was merely about using astrophysical phenomena to bend or warp space, but I don't understand why there are gradients between 1 and 9, and why Warp 9 is the theoretical maximum? Any resources that can help answer this eternal question. While we're at it, what, exactly is full impulse power? What velocity is that?
There is a book from the producers that explains all that as well as lots of other details about the NCC-1701D. I remember reading over every detail slavishly and enjoying it. I'm slightly embarassed about that fact.
posted by mmascolino at 6:22 AM on June 1, 2007
posted by mmascolino at 6:22 AM on June 1, 2007
Warp drive works very well, thank you.
Just like Heisenberg Compensators.
:)
posted by blue_wardrobe at 6:25 AM on June 1, 2007 [1 favorite]
Just like Heisenberg Compensators.
:)
posted by blue_wardrobe at 6:25 AM on June 1, 2007 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Start with The Next Generation Technical Manual, if Wikipedia and other Google searches don't provide enough detail, you can always buy the book itself. Minor details below might be incorrect, but I've done my best to refresh my memory and look things up.
But to answer your question quickly: Wrap drive moves space around the ship in question. TNG wrap scale is from the ultra-wrap system, which is different than what was used in TOS (and some segments taking place in the future in TNG and used a new scale, most notably "All Good Things...". Some TOS movies used a trans-wrap scale, I believe.)
As John Kenneth Fisher says, in the ultra-wrap system warp 10 is an infinite speed that has the ship occupying every position in the universe at the same time, but it requires infinite energy. The different scales and systems for warp explains why in the TOS they were able to go above warp factor 10. (And this warp speed table linked from Warp Drive might be helpful. But remember that a "cochrane" is the same one C, or the speed of light.)
There are gradients between warp factors simply because it's like any other scale, you can be between full units (like it's possible to go 43.4 MPH, although most warp-scales use something like a cube or log curve.)
According to Wikipedia (impulse), the normal top speed of impulse drive is about .25 C, to avoid too much relativistic effects.
posted by skynxnex at 6:25 AM on June 1, 2007
But to answer your question quickly: Wrap drive moves space around the ship in question. TNG wrap scale is from the ultra-wrap system, which is different than what was used in TOS (and some segments taking place in the future in TNG and used a new scale, most notably "All Good Things...". Some TOS movies used a trans-wrap scale, I believe.)
As John Kenneth Fisher says, in the ultra-wrap system warp 10 is an infinite speed that has the ship occupying every position in the universe at the same time, but it requires infinite energy. The different scales and systems for warp explains why in the TOS they were able to go above warp factor 10. (And this warp speed table linked from Warp Drive might be helpful. But remember that a "cochrane" is the same one C, or the speed of light.)
There are gradients between warp factors simply because it's like any other scale, you can be between full units (like it's possible to go 43.4 MPH, although most warp-scales use something like a cube or log curve.)
According to Wikipedia (impulse), the normal top speed of impulse drive is about .25 C, to avoid too much relativistic effects.
posted by skynxnex at 6:25 AM on June 1, 2007
The wikipedia article on warp drive has the following to say:
"For Star Trek: The Next Generation and the subsequent series, Star Trek artist Michael Okuda devised a formula based on the original one but with important differences. For warp 1–9, if w is thkm per second, and c is the speed of light, then s(w) = e warp factor, s(w) is the speed in w^{10 \over 3}c. In the half-open interval from warp 9 to warp 10, the exponent of w increases toward infinity. Thus, in the Okuda scale, warp speeds approach warp 10 asymptotically. There is no exact formula for this interval because the quoted speeds are based on a hand-drawn curve."
I never watched much Star Trek, so that's the best I can offer.
posted by chndrcks at 6:26 AM on June 1, 2007
"For Star Trek: The Next Generation and the subsequent series, Star Trek artist Michael Okuda devised a formula based on the original one but with important differences. For warp 1–9, if w is thkm per second, and c is the speed of light, then s(w) = e warp factor, s(w) is the speed in w^{10 \over 3}c. In the half-open interval from warp 9 to warp 10, the exponent of w increases toward infinity. Thus, in the Okuda scale, warp speeds approach warp 10 asymptotically. There is no exact formula for this interval because the quoted speeds are based on a hand-drawn curve."
I never watched much Star Trek, so that's the best I can offer.
posted by chndrcks at 6:26 AM on June 1, 2007
Having read the technical manual (I used to be even geekier than I am now!), I can vouch for chndrcks having it right. In the Star Trek: TNG timeframe, warp 10 requires infinite power to reach. Some theorize that at warp 10, one would be in all places in the universe.
The technical manual has a neat-o graph explaining the power usage at each warp factor. It helps to explain why there are warp factors, which serve as both convenient numbers by which to call the speed, and indicators of the "barriers" overcoming which require extra power. According to the chart, anyway, it takes more power to travel at warp 6 than it does warp 6.1, which uses marginally more than 5.9. I forget what the explanation for that is. Think of an exponential curve with "teeth" at each warp factor.
Full impulse is merely the maximum output of the impulse engines, which are simply fusion generators venting material into space at high velocity. IIRC full impulse is around 0.5c, but it's been many years since I lost my technical manual.
It's all fiction, of course, but very involved fiction.
posted by wierdo at 7:16 AM on June 1, 2007
The technical manual has a neat-o graph explaining the power usage at each warp factor. It helps to explain why there are warp factors, which serve as both convenient numbers by which to call the speed, and indicators of the "barriers" overcoming which require extra power. According to the chart, anyway, it takes more power to travel at warp 6 than it does warp 6.1, which uses marginally more than 5.9. I forget what the explanation for that is. Think of an exponential curve with "teeth" at each warp factor.
Full impulse is merely the maximum output of the impulse engines, which are simply fusion generators venting material into space at high velocity. IIRC full impulse is around 0.5c, but it's been many years since I lost my technical manual.
It's all fiction, of course, but very involved fiction.
posted by wierdo at 7:16 AM on June 1, 2007
Check out the Physics of Star Trek--A fun read.
If memory serves, the author's explanation of warp drives are not totally impossible, just that the instructions begin: "First, collect all the energy in the universe, then..."
posted by mrbugsentry at 7:36 AM on June 1, 2007
If memory serves, the author's explanation of warp drives are not totally impossible, just that the instructions begin: "First, collect all the energy in the universe, then..."
posted by mrbugsentry at 7:36 AM on June 1, 2007
Response by poster: I didn't necessarily want to limit the answer to a Star Trek, as I have seen the concept explored in other Science Fiction works (like Dune for example), but my framing of the question might have thrown some folks off. I had always presumed that this concept has some basis in real science, which seems to be the case.
posted by psmealey at 7:47 AM on June 1, 2007
posted by psmealey at 7:47 AM on June 1, 2007
Best answer: Ah, that depends on how much handwaving you want to do to call something "real science." I believe you will want to start with the Alcubierre warp drive.
It starts off with: first, get some exotic matter with negative mass (nobody has ever seen this). Then, somehow construct a "warp bubble" (and getting your ship in and out of it subjects you to the same hideous tidal forces one sees as one approaches a singularity). Then, this warp bubble can fall forward ... one interpretation of it is that it squeezes spacetime ahead of it, and then expands it behind. The ship itself would be in free-fall, and there would be no local violation of the speed of light.
Once you get a few impossible things in the mix, you can do other impossible things, like moving FTL.
posted by adipocere at 8:03 AM on June 1, 2007
It starts off with: first, get some exotic matter with negative mass (nobody has ever seen this). Then, somehow construct a "warp bubble" (and getting your ship in and out of it subjects you to the same hideous tidal forces one sees as one approaches a singularity). Then, this warp bubble can fall forward ... one interpretation of it is that it squeezes spacetime ahead of it, and then expands it behind. The ship itself would be in free-fall, and there would be no local violation of the speed of light.
Once you get a few impossible things in the mix, you can do other impossible things, like moving FTL.
posted by adipocere at 8:03 AM on June 1, 2007
Didn't voyager break the trans-warp barrier using a quantum slipstream drive?
posted by dr_dank at 8:05 AM on June 1, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by dr_dank at 8:05 AM on June 1, 2007 [1 favorite]
Didn't voyager break the trans-warp barrier using a quantum slipstream drive?
Shut your goddamn mouth.
posted by John Kenneth Fisher at 8:32 AM on June 1, 2007 [7 favorites]
Shut your goddamn mouth.
posted by John Kenneth Fisher at 8:32 AM on June 1, 2007 [7 favorites]
9.9999(infinite)
9.9 repeating is equal to 10. There's no maximum but there is an upper bound. Sorry to be particular, but I figure this thread has a certain nerd threshold that needs to be upheld :)
posted by monkeymadness at 8:35 AM on June 1, 2007 [2 favorites]
9.9 repeating is equal to 10. There's no maximum but there is an upper bound. Sorry to be particular, but I figure this thread has a certain nerd threshold that needs to be upheld :)
posted by monkeymadness at 8:35 AM on June 1, 2007 [2 favorites]
As usual with Star Trek stuff, you have to go with the Memory Alpha articles on warp drive and warp factor.
One interesting side note -- the warp energy curve drops off at the integrals. That's why they rarely order decimal warps unless they are in pursuit (or being pursued) -- it is more economical to just go an integral speed. Kind of an interesting "scientific" device to explain away a dramatic decision.
posted by cacophony at 9:59 AM on June 1, 2007
One interesting side note -- the warp energy curve drops off at the integrals. That's why they rarely order decimal warps unless they are in pursuit (or being pursued) -- it is more economical to just go an integral speed. Kind of an interesting "scientific" device to explain away a dramatic decision.
posted by cacophony at 9:59 AM on June 1, 2007
I'm fairly sure that impulse is 3/4 the speed of light. Yes, this throws up all kinds of relativistic problems, and it would be a damn sight faster than it's shown in the TV programs, where it's more like cumbersome manoeuvring. But that's what they say. My knowledge comes from an ancient copy of the Star Trek: Next Generation Technical Manual. Note the use of "ancient" there. I no longer have it, and I definitely don't dust it off to read every now and again if I get bored. Not at all.
posted by humblepigeon at 11:44 AM on June 1, 2007
posted by humblepigeon at 11:44 AM on June 1, 2007
Dune doesn't have a warp drive. It has Guild heighliners driven by the Holtzman effect. Becaues there are no computers in the Dune world, Guild navigators have to ingest large amounts of the spice melange to enter a precognitive trance; then they can operate the Holtzman field correctly in order to move the spacecraft from one point in the galaxy to another point instantaneously. They call it moving through "foldspace."
posted by ikkyu2 at 11:58 AM on June 1, 2007
posted by ikkyu2 at 11:58 AM on June 1, 2007
Dune doesn't have a warp drive. It has Guild heighliners driven by the Holtzman effect.
One of the first thing sci-fi creators have to do is get over those annoying relativistic concerns! Warp, folding space, hyperspace... They're both methods of getting people to travel without suffering time problems.
It's hard to create plots when the passage of time for various characters no longer syncs up, although I rather liked one of the Red Dwarf books when Rimmer, Kryten and the Cat had to leave Lister on a planet near a huge black hole. They returned just hours later, as far as they were concerned, but time had passed much faster on the planet, so that Lister had grown to be an old man.
posted by humblepigeon at 1:30 PM on June 1, 2007
One of the first thing sci-fi creators have to do is get over those annoying relativistic concerns! Warp, folding space, hyperspace... They're both methods of getting people to travel without suffering time problems.
It's hard to create plots when the passage of time for various characters no longer syncs up, although I rather liked one of the Red Dwarf books when Rimmer, Kryten and the Cat had to leave Lister on a planet near a huge black hole. They returned just hours later, as far as they were concerned, but time had passed much faster on the planet, so that Lister had grown to be an old man.
posted by humblepigeon at 1:30 PM on June 1, 2007
Yes, let's have writers discard some of the very things which make sci-fi interesting (cos they're hard) so we can have Neighbours In Space instead ;)
ukkyu2: Dune had computers didn't it? It just doesn't have *thinking* computers, 'cos they're illegal.
posted by Freaky at 2:55 AM on June 2, 2007
ukkyu2: Dune had computers didn't it? It just doesn't have *thinking* computers, 'cos they're illegal.
posted by Freaky at 2:55 AM on June 2, 2007
Freaky: I got the feeling that the Butlerian Jihad had pretty much done away with everything more complex than your average abacus, except for those dastardly Ixians who were always pushing the boundaries and flirting with the Imperial-mandated sterilization of their planet.
posted by ikkyu2 at 10:23 PM on June 3, 2007
posted by ikkyu2 at 10:23 PM on June 3, 2007
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by John Kenneth Fisher at 6:05 AM on June 1, 2007