Any Advice?
May 29, 2007 2:04 PM Subscribe
Recently, quite out of the blue, I've become uncharacteristically obsessed with success. What's going on and how can I make it stop?
As recently as two months ago, I started becoming more and more focused on success, ignoring all of my accomplishments, and obsessing about how I'm not successful by some arbitrary measure. It's gotten to the point where I feel almost crazed.
In the grand scheme of things, I am pretty successful, if only for the fact that I have a roof and some food (maybe that's just luck). But, really, I am doing pretty well. I am married, a loving father to a bright daughter, graduated top of my class a few years ago, live in a great neighborhood in a great city, am doing pretty well at work, etc. And if I look at it, I know I am quite young to be doing what I am doing (e.g., I am 28 and my daughter will be starting middle school next year).
But no matter what I do, I have started to always take someone else's accomplishments and use it as evidence that my accomplishments mean nothing. For example, I might hear about an old friend who has a great job or apartment or talent, and I will wield the information against myself. I will use one bit of data to refute everything I've done or can do. Meanwhile, that person's inner life might be a goddamned mess for all I know.
It's especially frustrating because I was never this way. I was always a very go-my-own-way type. I valued who people were more than what they had done. What's more is that being that way is how I've managed to be as successful as I have.
However, I've suddenly become this success obsessed monster with a narcissistic sense of failure and inadequacy. It's driving me crazy. Nothing I do is good enough or means anything.
Has any had this sort of feeling spring out the blue? What is causing this and how the hell can I get back to myself? Any advice on how I can get back on track? FYI, I'm not really interested in therapy and definitely not interested in SSRI's for personal reasons.
If for some reason you'd prefer to email me off the board, you can reach me at ptrjcb at gmail dot com.
As recently as two months ago, I started becoming more and more focused on success, ignoring all of my accomplishments, and obsessing about how I'm not successful by some arbitrary measure. It's gotten to the point where I feel almost crazed.
In the grand scheme of things, I am pretty successful, if only for the fact that I have a roof and some food (maybe that's just luck). But, really, I am doing pretty well. I am married, a loving father to a bright daughter, graduated top of my class a few years ago, live in a great neighborhood in a great city, am doing pretty well at work, etc. And if I look at it, I know I am quite young to be doing what I am doing (e.g., I am 28 and my daughter will be starting middle school next year).
But no matter what I do, I have started to always take someone else's accomplishments and use it as evidence that my accomplishments mean nothing. For example, I might hear about an old friend who has a great job or apartment or talent, and I will wield the information against myself. I will use one bit of data to refute everything I've done or can do. Meanwhile, that person's inner life might be a goddamned mess for all I know.
It's especially frustrating because I was never this way. I was always a very go-my-own-way type. I valued who people were more than what they had done. What's more is that being that way is how I've managed to be as successful as I have.
However, I've suddenly become this success obsessed monster with a narcissistic sense of failure and inadequacy. It's driving me crazy. Nothing I do is good enough or means anything.
Has any had this sort of feeling spring out the blue? What is causing this and how the hell can I get back to myself? Any advice on how I can get back on track? FYI, I'm not really interested in therapy and definitely not interested in SSRI's for personal reasons.
If for some reason you'd prefer to email me off the board, you can reach me at ptrjcb at gmail dot com.
maybe it's a quarter-life crisis?
i am sure others have felt the same way you do--does anyone really ever have an original emotion? there's no reason you need to take an antidepressant, but therapy (at least cognitive) might help you sort out your feelings and how to break the cycle of negative thinking.
my bet is that this didn't happen out of the blue. you've probably had some doubts for some time that you didn't think were worth addressing, and they've built up. you should deal with those. are you displacing other worries (perhaps about your daughter's impending teenage-dom, or the state of your romantic relationship) by funneling your anxiety into something you can (allegedly) control? obviously i can't answer that--it's up to you to do the hard thinking.
if you want to appreciate what you have, you and your daughter might try volunteering at a homeless shelter or food banki, or you might try being a "big brother" to a kid in need.
posted by thinkingwoman at 4:04 PM on May 29, 2007
i am sure others have felt the same way you do--does anyone really ever have an original emotion? there's no reason you need to take an antidepressant, but therapy (at least cognitive) might help you sort out your feelings and how to break the cycle of negative thinking.
my bet is that this didn't happen out of the blue. you've probably had some doubts for some time that you didn't think were worth addressing, and they've built up. you should deal with those. are you displacing other worries (perhaps about your daughter's impending teenage-dom, or the state of your romantic relationship) by funneling your anxiety into something you can (allegedly) control? obviously i can't answer that--it's up to you to do the hard thinking.
if you want to appreciate what you have, you and your daughter might try volunteering at a homeless shelter or food banki, or you might try being a "big brother" to a kid in need.
posted by thinkingwoman at 4:04 PM on May 29, 2007
If you are looking for a true mental evaluation (as your comment about SSRI's indicates) my first suggestion would be to talk to a mental health professional, perhaps by first getting a referral from your general doctor. Their advice on this issue will always be superior to anything you will find here.
What you describe could (I emphasize could) be symptoms of manic and/or depressive episodes, which may indicate either Unipolar or Bipolar depression. Obsession with goal oriented activities (such as an obsession with success or setting goals for success) could be a symptom of mania. Also severe and unreasonable feelings of guilt or worthlessness (similar to what you describe) could be a symptom of Depression. It could also be both Mania and Depression occurring simultaneously in what is known as a "mixed state". All three of these episodes can last for weeks to months (except mania, which is generally only a few weeks).
I couldn't possibly say for sure if you are having a serious mental episode, either depressive or manic, as the differential diagnostic includes a pattern of multiple symptoms (see Mania symptoms and Depressive symptoms). If you do have more than one of the symptoms listed on the links above I would advise you seek a professional medical opinion, in person, immediately.
My hunch is that you are probably not manic or depressed (at least not severely) and this is just a life transition thing. Generally the stresses such as college, marriage, and child birth would tend to trigger any latent depression before now, but it is always possible (and well documented) that depressive and manic episodes can happen for no apparent reason at any age, which would explain the sudden "out of the blue" onset. And IF it is a mood disorder it needs to be treated, as people with mood disorders are at a very high risk of suicide.
I know you may disagree with pharmaceutical options, I feel the same way in some respects, but if it is a form of depression or manic-depression it is at least good to know what you are up against. If you find a decent psychiatrist they may be willing to help you with alternative treatments that are available such as sleep therapy (regulating sleeping and waking times, key factors in mood disorders), nutritional supplements (Omega-3s are having much promising research published about them recently), and others that are being developed that may work for you.
That being said, mental illnesses, if that is what this is, are serious and real (here is depression too) and should not be brushed off. It is not your fault and you cannot just "get over it". If your doctors recommend medications then seriously listen to them. I have had close friends who thought psychotropic medications were fake, or poison or whatever... Some psychiatric drugs do have negative side effects, but death is worse--trust me.
posted by DetonatedManiac at 4:04 PM on May 29, 2007
What you describe could (I emphasize could) be symptoms of manic and/or depressive episodes, which may indicate either Unipolar or Bipolar depression. Obsession with goal oriented activities (such as an obsession with success or setting goals for success) could be a symptom of mania. Also severe and unreasonable feelings of guilt or worthlessness (similar to what you describe) could be a symptom of Depression. It could also be both Mania and Depression occurring simultaneously in what is known as a "mixed state". All three of these episodes can last for weeks to months (except mania, which is generally only a few weeks).
I couldn't possibly say for sure if you are having a serious mental episode, either depressive or manic, as the differential diagnostic includes a pattern of multiple symptoms (see Mania symptoms and Depressive symptoms). If you do have more than one of the symptoms listed on the links above I would advise you seek a professional medical opinion, in person, immediately.
My hunch is that you are probably not manic or depressed (at least not severely) and this is just a life transition thing. Generally the stresses such as college, marriage, and child birth would tend to trigger any latent depression before now, but it is always possible (and well documented) that depressive and manic episodes can happen for no apparent reason at any age, which would explain the sudden "out of the blue" onset. And IF it is a mood disorder it needs to be treated, as people with mood disorders are at a very high risk of suicide.
I know you may disagree with pharmaceutical options, I feel the same way in some respects, but if it is a form of depression or manic-depression it is at least good to know what you are up against. If you find a decent psychiatrist they may be willing to help you with alternative treatments that are available such as sleep therapy (regulating sleeping and waking times, key factors in mood disorders), nutritional supplements (Omega-3s are having much promising research published about them recently), and others that are being developed that may work for you.
That being said, mental illnesses, if that is what this is, are serious and real (here is depression too) and should not be brushed off. It is not your fault and you cannot just "get over it". If your doctors recommend medications then seriously listen to them. I have had close friends who thought psychotropic medications were fake, or poison or whatever... Some psychiatric drugs do have negative side effects, but death is worse--trust me.
posted by DetonatedManiac at 4:04 PM on May 29, 2007
oh, and also your youth might be a clue--my bet is that your daughter's friend's parents are much older, and therefore have had more time to achieve their successes. but because they are a de-facto peer group for you, you might be unconsciously comparing your life to theirs, even though your circumstances are different.
posted by thinkingwoman at 4:05 PM on May 29, 2007
posted by thinkingwoman at 4:05 PM on May 29, 2007
Your biological clock is ticking. It just ticks a bit faster than you peer group. The human male is programmed to want to succeed. It is for the survival of the species. Google it up. Studies have been done that shows the male of the species is driven to be as successful as possible by his mid 30's. This will yield the most stable domestic life and also the most viable offspring (well adjusted, well educated, etc), make him an attractive mate and all sorts of biological plusses.
There is nothing you can do about it other than harness this energy for good. Here's the closest thing I can find to a study that substantialtes my claim, but it's something.
posted by valentinepig at 4:41 PM on May 29, 2007
There is nothing you can do about it other than harness this energy for good. Here's the closest thing I can find to a study that substantialtes my claim, but it's something.
posted by valentinepig at 4:41 PM on May 29, 2007
Hello, me. You've very nearly described how I feel - I just don't have a teenage daughter, is all.
I too have suddenly (well, within the past year) been gripped by the need to succeed. For me, I'll see people around my age group that are saving the world in many ways, or are being very influential, and I get envious and depressed because I can't seem to reach the same level of achievement. I'm trying to help the world the way I know how, but then I'd hear about this 6-year-old that has started an NGO to send goats to Africa or something and I get bummed out because it feels like "if he can do it why can't I?" I know those profiles are meant to be inspirational mainly but I still feel like I'm not doing enough or I'm not good enough.
I'd second the depression. I've been battling it on and off (now strongly ON) for the past 5 years. I've just started treatment (Effexor-XR and psychologist theraphy) after not being on anything for a couple of years, so I don't know if it'll be effective, but I hope it helps somewhat.
Also: did you use to coast by and now find things a lot more challenging? I found school (and my first uni) to be too simple for words and really didn't care about how I achieved, even though I was getting As without trying. Now in this uni (and with a scholarship to maintain) I find more pressure to succeed, to compete. I'm competitive by nature anyway, but somehow now this has increased. Odd thing is, things still come a lot easier to me than to other people academics-wise, but *I* feel the strain more.
good luck!
posted by divabat at 4:42 PM on May 29, 2007 [1 favorite]
I too have suddenly (well, within the past year) been gripped by the need to succeed. For me, I'll see people around my age group that are saving the world in many ways, or are being very influential, and I get envious and depressed because I can't seem to reach the same level of achievement. I'm trying to help the world the way I know how, but then I'd hear about this 6-year-old that has started an NGO to send goats to Africa or something and I get bummed out because it feels like "if he can do it why can't I?" I know those profiles are meant to be inspirational mainly but I still feel like I'm not doing enough or I'm not good enough.
I'd second the depression. I've been battling it on and off (now strongly ON) for the past 5 years. I've just started treatment (Effexor-XR and psychologist theraphy) after not being on anything for a couple of years, so I don't know if it'll be effective, but I hope it helps somewhat.
Also: did you use to coast by and now find things a lot more challenging? I found school (and my first uni) to be too simple for words and really didn't care about how I achieved, even though I was getting As without trying. Now in this uni (and with a scholarship to maintain) I find more pressure to succeed, to compete. I'm competitive by nature anyway, but somehow now this has increased. Odd thing is, things still come a lot easier to me than to other people academics-wise, but *I* feel the strain more.
good luck!
posted by divabat at 4:42 PM on May 29, 2007 [1 favorite]
on post:
valentinepig: how does it explain FEMALES (such as myself) that are feeling the same way s/he's feeling?
posted by divabat at 4:44 PM on May 29, 2007
valentinepig: how does it explain FEMALES (such as myself) that are feeling the same way s/he's feeling?
posted by divabat at 4:44 PM on May 29, 2007
Any advice on how I can get back on track?
Exercise. When I get that claustrophobic, oh-my-god - everything-I'm-doing-is-wrong- wrong-wrong feeling, even an hour of heavy exercise can make it lift for a few days. I suddenly remember that oh yeah, I do like my life.
Has any had this sort of feeling spring out the blue?
I did, in a more gendered-female way, right when I turned 30. I suddenly got immensely self-conscious about my body, convinced I was over the hill, that I'd never be pretty again -- and I had really never been insecure like that ever. I just kind of heard myself obsessing, thought, "This is probably more about being 30 than about actually having turned hideous," and tried to relax and ride it out. The feelings still pop up occasionally, but I can pretty much say, "Yep, there's that feeling again" and ignore it rather than making myself crazy with it.
It seemed reasonably obvious to me that some "turning 30 means I'm over the hill" scenario was playing out in my subconscious -- can you find a similar story that you're telling yourself, even subconsciously, about what's going on with your life now? Could it be something about your daughter going into middle school -- was that time period in your life really rough in terms of feeling inferior or competitive with your peers? Could it be something about 30 coming up -- do you feel like you should have accomplished more? Is something else going on in your life that's triggering some fear, or insecurity, either from something that happened in your past or from something you'd been telling yourself about the future?
Often, if you can just identify what that story or triggered feeling is, it's easier to see it as not such a big deal. Therapists can help with that process, but so can keeping a journal, taking long walks, talking to your wife or friends, or any other sort of "processing" activity.
posted by occhiblu at 6:18 PM on May 29, 2007
Exercise. When I get that claustrophobic, oh-my-god - everything-I'm-doing-is-wrong- wrong-wrong feeling, even an hour of heavy exercise can make it lift for a few days. I suddenly remember that oh yeah, I do like my life.
Has any had this sort of feeling spring out the blue?
I did, in a more gendered-female way, right when I turned 30. I suddenly got immensely self-conscious about my body, convinced I was over the hill, that I'd never be pretty again -- and I had really never been insecure like that ever. I just kind of heard myself obsessing, thought, "This is probably more about being 30 than about actually having turned hideous," and tried to relax and ride it out. The feelings still pop up occasionally, but I can pretty much say, "Yep, there's that feeling again" and ignore it rather than making myself crazy with it.
It seemed reasonably obvious to me that some "turning 30 means I'm over the hill" scenario was playing out in my subconscious -- can you find a similar story that you're telling yourself, even subconsciously, about what's going on with your life now? Could it be something about your daughter going into middle school -- was that time period in your life really rough in terms of feeling inferior or competitive with your peers? Could it be something about 30 coming up -- do you feel like you should have accomplished more? Is something else going on in your life that's triggering some fear, or insecurity, either from something that happened in your past or from something you'd been telling yourself about the future?
Often, if you can just identify what that story or triggered feeling is, it's easier to see it as not such a big deal. Therapists can help with that process, but so can keeping a journal, taking long walks, talking to your wife or friends, or any other sort of "processing" activity.
posted by occhiblu at 6:18 PM on May 29, 2007
Cognitive Behavioral Therapy is for you. Let me suggest a little exercise I often do. Take your belief that your worth is tied to your success. Write the specifics of the belief down on the top of a sheet of paper. On the left hand side write the advantages of believing that your worth is tied up in your success. Then on the right hand side write down the disadvantages. Then ask yourself out of a hundred, how does each stack up against the other. Repeat as necessary.
posted by Ironmouth at 8:56 PM on May 29, 2007
posted by Ironmouth at 8:56 PM on May 29, 2007
Ditto what others have said about this probably relating to your current life phase (we live in a culture that expects us to have our lives mostly "figured out" by our late twenties/ early thirties) and ditto the suggestion of Cognitive Behavioral Therapy to help you learn to change this troubling thought pattern.
I recently broke out of a similar habit of thinking after years of anxiety and depression that were directly linked to that way of thinking. Think about it this way: you are experiencing some negative side effects of some positive personality traits. What you said about yourself makes me think that you are responsible and you care about your future. Unfortunately, those admirable qualities have gotten wrapped into an obsessive thought pattern that isn't doing you any good. The kind of thoughts you describe are self-destructive and they will ultimately undermine your confidence, creativity, and happiness IF you don't address them.
Here's the good news. You CAN change this new way of thinking, and I'd bet that you'll be a lot happier when you do. Reconsider a course of therapy, and pick up the book "Learned Optimism" by the psychologist Martin Seligman, which may help you understand this problem in a new light, and give you some empirically supported methods to help you break out of your current "negative explanatory style." You should know that I'm highly skeptical of most self-help books, but I really found this one to be intelligently written and quite useful.
This could go on for years and make you miserable, so do something about it and nip it in the bud - it's the most worthwhile investment you could make in yourself.
posted by man on the run at 10:05 AM on May 30, 2007
I recently broke out of a similar habit of thinking after years of anxiety and depression that were directly linked to that way of thinking. Think about it this way: you are experiencing some negative side effects of some positive personality traits. What you said about yourself makes me think that you are responsible and you care about your future. Unfortunately, those admirable qualities have gotten wrapped into an obsessive thought pattern that isn't doing you any good. The kind of thoughts you describe are self-destructive and they will ultimately undermine your confidence, creativity, and happiness IF you don't address them.
Here's the good news. You CAN change this new way of thinking, and I'd bet that you'll be a lot happier when you do. Reconsider a course of therapy, and pick up the book "Learned Optimism" by the psychologist Martin Seligman, which may help you understand this problem in a new light, and give you some empirically supported methods to help you break out of your current "negative explanatory style." You should know that I'm highly skeptical of most self-help books, but I really found this one to be intelligently written and quite useful.
This could go on for years and make you miserable, so do something about it and nip it in the bud - it's the most worthwhile investment you could make in yourself.
posted by man on the run at 10:05 AM on May 30, 2007
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I learned the other day from Pema Chodron that as long as I keep my ego in mind when I am trying to learn modesty that I will never be able to break away from my arrogant self.
Thinking about that, there seems be a point of action: don't think about where you are in life, just think about improvement.
posted by parmanparman at 3:09 PM on May 29, 2007