Is Guinness Airlifted in from Ireland (or the U.K.) to certain pubs?

November 19, 2006 9:04 AM

Last night I got into a discussion with the proprietor of our local pub. For years I have heard from various sources that certain pubs in the united states get their Guinness airlifted in from Ireland (or the U.K.). Now I don't mean specially airlifted, simply that it comes in the cargo hold of an aer lingus flight or some such to maintain the ultimate freshness. One person who told me this is my wife's (born in Dublin) friend who worked for Guinness. Now the proprietor insists this is not true and told me if I can prove it I can drink free Guinness in his pub for the rest of my life. I can not find any evidence of this on the Internet, can anyone provide any evidence for this?
posted by JpMaxMan to Society & Culture (34 answers total)

I doubt this is true. Just had a look on Diageo's website (the parent company of guiness) and they say that they brew Guiness in "over 50 countries worldwide"

So I doubt they import it: it's probably made at Diageo's US brewing plant, wherever that may be.
posted by philsi at 9:38 AM on November 19, 2006

However no sooner than I post this than I see this page - if you roll over the one spot in the US you see it says "...comes directly from.... Dublin"

Hope that helps, sorry for the double posting.
posted by philsi at 9:41 AM on November 19, 2006

Guinness used to be brewed in the UK at Park Royal in west London. My father used to work there. The brewery has now been knocked down and now all UK Guinness is brewed in Dublin. A pity in a way, as the brewery was a beautiful example of 1920s architecture. You used to be able to see it, a big brown edifice, from the tube between Park Royal and Alperton.

I can definitely tell you that it doesn't come from the US. It definitely comes from Dublin. But AFAIK it comes by boat, not plane.

Elsewhere in the world, I know there are several breweries in Africa. It's particularly popular in Kenya and is brewed there.
posted by randomination at 9:47 AM on November 19, 2006

It might be flown in bulk across the Atlantic to the States, but not out of favoritism toward certain watering holes. Beer entering the U.S. is given to distributors, which contract out to bars and taverns. Any instances where distribs may be permitted to co-own a bar might claim some bragging rights, but I'd say your proprietor friend's on the money.

After all, if Africa can wait a few days for a pint of Guiness, so can the world.
posted by Smart Dalek at 9:48 AM on November 19, 2006

For a lifetime of free beer, I think it would be worth actually asking Guinness (see bottom of page).
posted by teleskiving at 10:09 AM on November 19, 2006

For North Americans, Guinness Stout, which is brewed in 51 countries, is brewed in Canada.

From this article, which is about a small brewery trying to capitalize on the fact it's actually still from Ireland.

This also conforms to what I remember hearing at a tour of the St. James Gate brewery in Dublin a few years ago.
posted by MasonDixon at 10:20 AM on November 19, 2006

Here's what the Guinness FAQ has to say about it (last question on the page):

Is it true that you get a much better pint of GUINNESS® beer in Ireland?

GUINNESS® is GUINNESS® - wherever you are. We always use pure, fresh water from natural local sources for the GUINNESS® beer brewed outside Ireland. That said, in blind tests (with a bunch of highly cynical journalists) none of our sample could tell the difference between Irish-brewed GUINNESS® and the locally produced variety. All the GUINNESS® sold in the UK, Ireland and North America is brewed in Ireland at the historic St. James’s Gate Brewery in Dublin.

(Above bolded emphasis mine) But, like MasonDixon, I'm sure I can recall that the Hop Store Tour at St. James's Gate mentioned that the Guinness draft I drank (and drink) in Canada was brewed here by Labatt's. Oh well.
posted by hangashore at 10:29 AM on November 19, 2006

Yeah, but from MasonDixon's same article:

"EDITOR'S NOTE: According to Diageo, a London-based alcohol beverage company whose brands include Guinness, Guinness Extra Stout, which accounts for only 20% of Guinness' total volume, is brewed in Canada. Guinness Draft is brewed in Ireland."

Wha?
posted by fixedgear at 10:29 AM on November 19, 2006

(Aaaand I missed the main point of your question, which was about the airlifting. Gah.)
posted by hangashore at 10:31 AM on November 19, 2006

MasonDixon - That article also says:
EDITOR'S NOTE: According to Diageo, a London-based alcohol beverage company whose brands include Guinness, Guinness Extra Stout*, which accounts for only 20% of Guinness' total volume, is brewed in Canada. Guinness Draft is brewed in Ireland.

* Extra Stout is, in the UK at least, a bottled beer. Guinness as advertised is usually a draft beer; so this seems to support the idea that the draft is brewed in Dublin. Hoever, I guess it may serve Diageo (yeucch! horrible name)'s purposes to obfusc the issue.
posted by dash_slot- at 10:37 AM on November 19, 2006

There is definitely some importing going on. If you check www.thebeerstore.ca and do a search for guinness you'll see that you can get the "brewed by Labatt" Guinness, and the higher priced "imported from Dublin" Guinness. Seems pretty conclusive to me.
posted by sonicgeeza at 10:39 AM on November 19, 2006

That is to say: it is true enough to say "All the GUINNESS® sold in the UK, Ireland and North America is brewed in Ireland at the historic St. James’s Gate Brewery in Dublin", if you define GUINNESS® to mean GUINNESS Extra Stout.
posted by dash_slot- at 10:40 AM on November 19, 2006

I would like to know if you do win the bet, if the propieter will stay true to his word. Somehow I doubt he will, or will find a technicality.
posted by nickerbocker at 10:42 AM on November 19, 2006

Try NERAX. They have a history of importing casks. http://www.nerax.org/
posted by Gungho at 10:43 AM on November 19, 2006

er, d-s, I think you mean "if you define GUINNESS® to mean GUINNESS Draft."
posted by mwhybark at 11:03 AM on November 19, 2006

Perhaps they airlift the 'essence' they talk about in this section of the Guinness site. There's even a little animation of an airplane dropping cargo on the bottom of the page. :)

I also vote to ask Guinness.
posted by youngergirl44 at 11:05 AM on November 19, 2006

agreed, as guinness. then treat mefites to free beer.
posted by craven_morhead at 11:52 AM on November 19, 2006

Get everyone to define their terms. You'll need the exact nature defined to know whether you've won the bet or not, and when you get things defined I suspect that you'll learn that something isn't as special as you assumed.

How often does the Dublin plant ship to the U.S.? Daily? Seems reasonable. Does it go directly to a pub? Not very likely, as alcohol importing and distribution is a pretty well-protected de jure monopoly. Could it be rubber-stamped and taxed at the distributer, where it very soon goes to a pub? Yes.

So, is it enough proof that some quantity leaves Dublin, arrives in the US, and is served in a bar within N hours? Get your wagerer to agree on N. (36 hours since sunset Dublin, to flowing from the tap in Joe's Bar, Oakland, CA?)

I'd say that the tax records for several samples are the best way of finding a lower bounds, which might be a way of disproving that time, N hours.
posted by cmiller at 12:02 PM on November 19, 2006

Ah, another idea: I bet every keg/barrel/whatever comes with a quality-control identifier. When one arrives, mark the day and time, and mail Guinness about it if it's not obvious how to decode it.
posted by cmiller at 12:04 PM on November 19, 2006

You might also want to contact:

The Guinness Import Company
6 Landmark Sq.
Stamford CT 06901-2704
[phone]

which is responsible for the importation of Guinness product in the United States.

Off-topic, but related -- I found these articles about Guinness Draught Specialists who are responsible for educating American bars/pubs on the proper way of serving their beer - 1, 2.

And, by all means, be sure to update us on the results of your bet.
posted by ericb at 12:48 PM on November 19, 2006

Guinness Extra Stout (brewed by Labatts) is a far different creature than Guinness Draught. Extra is very popular in the Caribbean for some reason and barely consumed (to my knowledge) in North America. All Guinness Draught is imported into North America. In Canada, the two beers are not even represented by the same agencies.

I also believe it's shipped, not airlifted. And being a usually non-allocated product, nobody gets preference in Canada (may be different in the States, where county and state liquor laws and distributions vary wildly).

This FAQ may be helpful.
posted by converge at 1:54 PM on November 19, 2006

In Ontario at least: Guinness Extra Stout is bottled (and labelled product of Canada) and Guiness Draft comes in widgetized cans (labelled product of Ireland) or on tap. Extra Stout is very different from Draft---you only make that mistake once.
posted by bonehead at 2:26 PM on November 19, 2006

Response by poster: Thanks for all the wonderful answers! Wow I'm learning more and more about my favorite beer - the milk of the gods! To clarify the bet, in order to win I have to show that any commercial establishment (bar) serves Guinness that arrives by airplane, not boat or other means.
posted by JpMaxMan at 2:42 PM on November 19, 2006

This was changed quite recently, at least in the UK -- Guinness did a "now brewed in Dublin!" marketing campaign when they started importing it all instead of making it here. More info here somewhere.
posted by reklaw at 3:00 PM on November 19, 2006

Most beer brands like to boast about a particular local provenence that makes them special. Beer has quite a simple composition however: malt, yeast, hops and water by and large. If you know the recipe you can duplicate the beer anywhere in the world - except that you have to treat the local water to have the same mineral composition as wherever it came from. The water part was always the hardest part but is not a problem these days. Brand owners can save money by brewing beer locally rather than having to transport it and they will conduct blind taste tests to check that people cannot tell the difference. There some major brands (like Beck's) that make a point of only ever being brewed in one place. Others will vary the recipe from one country to another to match local market preferences. But rest assured that if the brewer does not want you to tell the difference you would be hard pressed to do so. Beer is best drunk fresh so there is some advantage to getting it knocked out locally.
posted by rongorongo at 3:03 PM on November 19, 2006

No answer, but I have heard the airlifted for freshness rumour in the past.
rongorongo mentions Becks is brewed in just one place. This isn't true anymore, in Australia it is now brewed locally under licence to Lion Nathan, and I recently had a case imported from Turkey (of all places!). I am assuming it was a 'grey' market import.
posted by bystander at 5:10 PM on November 19, 2006

To clarify the bet, in order to win I have to show that any commercial establishment (bar) serves Guinness that arrives by airplane, not boat or other means.

Methinks it best that you call The Guinness Import Company (203-323-3311) tomorrow morn' to seek clarification. If indeed Guiness Draught arrives at Laguardia, Kennedy, et al (via Aer Lingus or other airlines) with kegs of your "milk of the gods," request that GIC send a fax (and/or a snail-mail letter) on company stationery, so that you can bathe in such for the remainder of your years!

If such proves true, save some for us, heathens, please!
posted by ericb at 5:15 PM on November 19, 2006

Strange. I was a big fan of Guiness Stout in grad school (mid to late 90s) and when a friend returned from Dublin with a six pack in her suitcase, we sat and enjoyed a completely different (and much, much better) beer than the one we got in California pubs.

If there really are pubs serving true 100% Dublin Guiness, please post the locations so I can check them out for myself.
posted by mathowie at 7:35 PM on November 19, 2006

Well as a native Dub and a lifelong guinness drinker, some of the guinness in Dublin is undrinkable (arguably a lot of it, depending who you ask; I'm not a beer snob). It has everything to do with the cleanliness of the pub & lines, how often it's ordered and the give-a-damn-ness of the staff. Their advertisers are good at building the myth but I can't imagine why flying it from Jameses Gate rather than brewing locally increases the quality.
posted by jamesonandwater at 8:24 PM on November 19, 2006

Response by poster: jamesonandwater: It is interesting you would say that. The conversation came up because I've noticed the quality of the Guinness had taken a slight turn. The pub takes great pride in their Guinness and it has always been the best poor anywhere. I have even compared it to Guinness in Dublin going directly to the pub after getting off a flight from Ireland (where I had a few last pints!). Anyway, the owner says he cleans his lines every week and has been trying to figure out what is causing it. He thinks it's in the kegs - which is when I brought up the air lifted Guinness. And the rest, as they say, is history.

If I don't get a conclusive answer here I'm going to call the Guinness Import Company tomorrow and will post an update as to what they say.
posted by JpMaxMan at 8:57 PM on November 19, 2006

I got this email the other day, after inquiring at a chain of pubs that takes pride in its Guinness:

The Guinness which we serve in our bar is still imported from the St. James Gate Brewery. It is a known fact that Guinness has breweries all over the world and one located in Canada, but that facility at this time supplies the United States west of the Mississippi.

As to our Guinness as is true of all beer, ale or stout that is a Keg product and brought over from Europe, it is actually shipped via boat to the United States. This is due to the shear volume and weight of the product and is the only way that is economically feasible.

I hope this answers the question.

Greg Jones
Vice President of Operations
The Claddagh Development Group, LLC



Sorry I didn't have better news.
posted by craven_morhead at 7:56 PM on November 22, 2006

Response by poster: Just got this from Diageo (parent company of Guinness):

Hello J.P.

"I write in connection with your recent email which has been forwarded to my desk for attention.

Here in the UK we are responsible solely for the sale and distribution of our products within Great Britain. However, Guinness for the UK market is now brewed at St. James's Gate in Dublin.

I have taken the liberty of forwarding a copy of your mail to my colleagues in our US office who are better placed to answer your enquiry and I am confident that they will be in contact with you in due course."

I am waiting with great anticipation!
posted by JpMaxMan at 11:45 AM on November 27, 2006

Response by poster: Ok guys. First to clear some things up:

1. All draught and pub draught canned Guinness in the United States comes from the brewery at St. James Gate in Dublin, Ireland.

2. All Guinness is transported to the United States by ship.

Dear J.P.,
We would love to see you drink Guinness free for the rest of your life. Unfortunately, your wife's friend is incorrect. Guinness is transported by ship to the US. Guinness has a shelf life of nine months so the quality will maintain during the transportation. Also, Guinness cans contain the widget which is pressurized with nitrogen. If something were to happen to the pressure in the cabin, it could get quite messy! If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact us again!

Thank you!
Samantha Taylor
Consumer Relations - Supply Quality
DIAGEO North America
posted by JpMaxMan at 1:00 PM on December 4, 2006 [1 favorite]

Best answer: Well, fellow meta-ites! I thought I had this one wrapped up, but on a recent trip to Dublin I happened to be at the St James Gate brewery. We were there with friends who had never done the tour, so we went with them. Low and behold there is an assistant brewmaster giving a speach. Afterward I politely approached him and asked him if any Guinness was transported to the United States via airplane.

His answer: YES! A very small amount, around 2%, but some was transported by air. I took a video of it and have uploaded to youtube:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9qpLOPgIK4

So there you have it!
posted by JpMaxMan at 8:14 PM on September 26, 2007 [1 favorite]