What Not To Wear?

July 12, 2006 6:42 AM

Paranoid-white-people-from-Indiana-filter... My kids are travelling to San Diego next week for a church-camp thing. Their church has issued some curious clothing warnings...

The gist of the clothing warnings is that the kids should avoid wearing red or "Carolina blue" clothing because these are gang colors.
Of course, my wife is going batshit trying to make sure the kids aren't packing gang colors. So, my horribly paranoid-white-person question is...
WTF? Does my daughter really have to replace all her Tarheel powder-blues with some navy blue rags?

As an addendum, since this is a work camp (they usually do some sort of "Habitat for Humanity" work when they go to these things) there is a good possibility that the groups will be in some "less-than-fashionable" locations (if that makes any difference)

And, again, I really apologize for the midwest-white-folk paranoia. This church memo has my wife all flustered, so I promised her I'd ask. ~sighs~

posted by Thorzdad to society & culture (53 comments total)

Southern California resident here. Yes, they're gang colors. Yes, there is a huge gang presence in San Diego. Yes, Habitat for Humanity does work in depressed neighborhoods. Yes, there are commonly gangs in those neighborhoods. Yes, she should pack some clothing without those colors to wear when she's in those areas.

It's unlikely she'd really encounter a problem, especially in a large crowd that's doing charity work during the daytime, but really... why risk it when it's easily avoided? Peace of mind.
posted by empyrean at 6:51 AM on July 12, 2006

Well, I'm here in the east, so I'm not exactly an expert in San Diego culture. But didn't that whole Crips/Bloods thing go out like 10 years ago?

Then again, red is the bad color.
posted by magodesky at 6:53 AM on July 12, 2006

Heed your wife's spooked reaction -- why even chance it? Don't you want to be triple-darn sure your daughter is safe, even if you think it is unreasonable? Do you think they would have sent out a weird church memo on it if it wasn't something that desperately needed to be known? Do it!
posted by vanoakenfold at 6:58 AM on July 12, 2006

Better safe than sorry - heed the warning. And beyond the point of your question, but maybe next year your church can find a depressed neighborhood in Indianapolis that could use some help? I've always wondered why civic and church groups travel thousands of miles to work on problems that almost always also exist in their hometowns.
posted by COD at 7:05 AM on July 12, 2006

I'd say it would be more of an issue if your daughter was planning on walking around alone in any gang-related areas, but even still, why bother when you can easily avoid it? Unless your daughter owns exclusively red-and-Carolina-blue clothes, why not just heed the warning?
posted by antifuse at 7:06 AM on July 12, 2006

I don't think it's likely that any gang members will confuse the group of white kids doing community service for members of a rival gang and decide to protect their turf or anything like that.

I went on a church youth group trip to inner city Miami, where we did work at a small mission church and at various community center type places. I think we all wore jeans and polo shirts to look decent, but didn't worry about colors.

Although you should get rid of all your Tarheel blue clothes because it's the humane thing to do. (Duke '00)
posted by mbd1mbd1 at 7:08 AM on July 12, 2006

Thanks folks. So, just to be safe, should she avoid ALL shades of blue? Dark and light? Her highschool colors include royal/navy blue and, being an athlete, she has a ton of that color in shirts.
posted by Thorzdad at 7:09 AM on July 12, 2006

Do you think they would have sent out a weird church memo on it if it wasn't something that desperately needed to be known?

While your general point is sound advice, this probably is not your best example. In fact, if anything, it being on a church memo only increases the probability that it's wrong.

But in all seriousness, he has a point. I'm sure there are enough non-red-or-blue clothes that you can ditch the "gang colors" and put everyone's mind at ease.
posted by magodesky at 7:14 AM on July 12, 2006

And beyond the point of your question, but maybe next year your church can find a depressed neighborhood in Indianapolis that could use some help? I've always wondered why civic and church groups travel thousands of miles to work on problems that almost always also exist in their hometowns.

I have always wondered that too. What's the deal, yo?
posted by agregoli at 7:15 AM on July 12, 2006

Just let her wear whatever she wants. The church sent out a memo not because it's important but because they are paranoid white people, not because someone is going to suspect she's in a gang. Geez.
posted by dame at 7:15 AM on July 12, 2006

We were once told in a church meeting that there were gangs of youth involved in a blood initiation that involved driving around with one's lights off and shooting the first person who flashed their lights at you.
posted by mecran01 at 7:23 AM on July 12, 2006

Church youth groups go thousands of miles away because more kids are willing to go do work if there's a little bit of a vacation type feel to it. We stopped by Disney World on the way home from Miami, for instance.
posted by mbd1mbd1 at 7:26 AM on July 12, 2006

I have a friend who occasionally teaches in gang areas in L.A., and she never wears blue or red in the classroom, not because she's afraid of violence, but because the kids might mistakenly think that she's taking sides.
posted by gallois at 7:27 AM on July 12, 2006

Seriously, does the entire city of San Diego avoid wearing red and blue? Come on, no one is going to confuse a bunch of pasty white kids with gang members. You might want to stay away from all-red and all-blue ensembles, but that's more a matter of good fashion sense than racism, which is what that memo smacks of.
posted by mkultra at 7:34 AM on July 12, 2006

It seems to me to be more of a lesson in cultural sensitivity than racism, mkultra.
Which is also why it's a good idea to send kids clear across the country to do these types of projects.
posted by Floydd at 7:43 AM on July 12, 2006

I think it's an absurd memo to send out - I seriously doubt her white Indiana church group doing community development would be mistaken for San Diego gang members. And certainly just touristing around San Diego it's fine to wear those colors. As a teacher, sure, it's good not to appear to pick sides. But in this context, for safety reasons, I'm sure it's fine.

The only reason I can think that she should avoid packing that stuff would be to avoid ticking off the group leaders who sent out the memo. If she would care about something like that.

And I don't necessarily think teaching children to be triple safe all the time is the best approach. If you take that view, why send her into gang territory at all? Because she'll be helping her community and learning some lessons of her own....
posted by Amizu at 7:43 AM on July 12, 2006

mecran01, snopes has debunked that one pretty thoroughly. I imagine this is a case of a church elder receiving some forwarded email crap and overeacting.
posted by cosmicbandito at 7:44 AM on July 12, 2006

agregoli writes "I have always wondered that too. What's the deal, yo?"

Besides what mbd1² said the experience is better for the kids if they travel. It gets them out of their own backyard (and away from their parents) and lets the see a tiny bit of the world. I worked with a woman who at the age of 19 had never traveled more than 150 miles from her home. We had a working road trip to Vancouver (from the interior of BC, 350km) and you'd think to hear her talk that we were headed for East Timor or Tibet. Very surreal.
posted by Mitheral at 7:45 AM on July 12, 2006

Good reasons, I guess. I think it would be nicer if they actually helped their own community, but whatever.
posted by agregoli at 7:48 AM on July 12, 2006

I'm here in San Diego, occasionally frequent "bad scary oooh naughty" areas, and have never given a second thought to if I'm wearing red or blue. Seems like some over-hyped fear from back in the early '90s to me. I remember when we werent supposed to wear Raiders gear in junior high.
posted by fillsthepews at 8:00 AM on July 12, 2006

I'm going to be in San Diego for the Comicon next week. In none of the materials issued to fans or professionals who are attending the show is there any mention of making sure you don't wear gang colors. It's a silly, overhyped note that can probably be ignored.
posted by beaucoupkevin at 8:03 AM on July 12, 2006

Also, tell your kids to eat as much mexican food as humanly possible and to have a great time!
posted by fillsthepews at 8:03 AM on July 12, 2006

I second that notion, COD and agregoli. My own church is very excited to fly to Russia to help the poor kids, but was lukewarm to my idea of helping at the local soup kitchen.
posted by toastchee at 8:17 AM on July 12, 2006

[a few comments removed, if you want to debate racism or xenophobia, there's metatalk]
posted by jessamyn at 8:27 AM on July 12, 2006

toastchee - that is very sad.
posted by agregoli at 8:33 AM on July 12, 2006

Floydd, are you seriously trying to equate San Diego with South Asia and the Middle East in the context of cultural sensitivity? 'Cause, wow...
posted by mkultra at 8:38 AM on July 12, 2006

No need to take any risks, but really, gang members know little white girls from out of town when they see them, and are not going to confuse them for enemies.
posted by scarabic at 8:49 AM on July 12, 2006

I am with Amizu, no one will mistake them for gang members, even if they tried to look like gang members, but in deference to the trip organizers you should avoid these colors.
posted by caddis at 8:51 AM on July 12, 2006

...are you seriously trying to equate San Diego with South Asia and the Middle East in the context of cultural sensitivity? Yuppers. For some people it's equivalent. See Mithrals' comment.
posted by Floydd at 8:55 AM on July 12, 2006

Man, this brings back memories of grade school... I was one of about a dozen (white, middle class) kids imported to the school as part of a Magnet Program (still not sure what that was/is). The school van that picked me up made a detour of about three miles to reach my house. One of my first lunchroom experiences was choosing between bloods and crips as if I were choosing a favorite sports team (I forget who I chose). Most of the kids talked about gangs the same way they talked about power rangers, but some of the sixth graders were actually starting fights over "allegiance."

You might save your spawnlings from an incomprehensible choosing sides experience if they interact with any of the local kids, but I'm with everyone else telling you and your wife not to worry. But yeah, humor your wife and the church group. Green is a nice color.
posted by Derive the Hamiltonian of... at 9:02 AM on July 12, 2006

Floydd, there's a difference between cultural ignorance and cultural sensitivity. Per Mithral's comment:

I worked with a woman who at the age of 19 had never traveled more than 150 miles from her home. We had a working road trip to Vancouver (from the interior of BC, 350km) and you'd think to hear her talk that we were headed for East Timor or Tibet. Very surreal.

I'm sure she's a very nice person, but that's her problem. Vancouver (one of the most low-key cities on the planet), I can guarantee you, doesn't give a rat's ass.
posted by mkultra at 9:11 AM on July 12, 2006

The logic is not that rural white girls will be mistaken for gang members, but that gang members might take exception to rural white girls wearing their colors.
posted by cribcage at 9:12 AM on July 12, 2006

Yeah, and make sure the kids don't sell crack on someone else's corner while wearing yellow headbands either. That also ticks off gang members.

Or what scarabic said:
...really, gang members know little white girls from out of town when they see them, and are not going to confuse them for enemies.
posted by salvia at 9:13 AM on July 12, 2006

I joked to a friend (who's black) that I might have worn the wrong color while riding my bicycle through South Central in LA. His response was that I'd always have on the right color (pointing to my pale white arm).
posted by the jam at 9:42 AM on July 12, 2006 [1 favorite]

didn't that whole Crips/Bloods thing go out like 10 years ago?

Hardly. But in San Diego you're in Sureño territory.
posted by Rash at 9:51 AM on July 12, 2006

Feeling stupid here ... yellow headbands?
posted by spaceman_spiff at 9:55 AM on July 12, 2006

beaucoupkevin wrote: I'm going to be in San Diego for the Comicon next week.

Me too. I also neglected to note the warning at the airport last time I flew to San Diego instructing me to not wear red or blue, just in case some bad gang men tried to shoot me.

They're going to stick out like sore thumbs in the rough areas anyway and no amount of clothing choice is going to change that. I wouldn't worry, unless the church group is going to make an issue of it (which I guess they already have done). Best of luck to them.
posted by saturnine at 10:02 AM on July 12, 2006

Okay, I will admit I am from Arkansas, and rural Arkansas at that, but even we had a surge of allegiance-pledging wannabes in the 90s. I was too young to remember all the details, but my school ended up banning red and blue when worn monochromatically. What I was told when this happened was that each gang had "backup colors," for example, the backup for Bloods was green.

Now, this could be good, old-fashioned Arkansas ignorance, but if this is true, wouldn't you end up running out of colors? You'd have to wear brown all the time or something.

But I nth the vote to not worry too hard about it. I'm sure if your daughter is painting a house in a polo with blue stripes on it, gang members will be able to tell she's not wearing a rag and raising one of her pants legs up.
posted by starbaby at 10:18 AM on July 12, 2006

Common sense will work just fine here. No all-Carolina-blue ensembles, if for no other reason than to avoid freaking out the church leaders or looking like some some sort of gang-romanticizing wannabe. But a school athletic jacket or incidental piece of red or blue clothing? Don't worry about it.
posted by desuetude at 10:25 AM on July 12, 2006

Thanks all. Consider yourselves ALL marked as best answer.
'cause I'm too damn lazy to go down the thread and actually do the marking on all o ya.
posted by Thorzdad at 10:43 AM on July 12, 2006

I know I'm answering after the post is semmingly closed and hey, probably not even answering the actual question, but hey, I'm going to live on the edge today (unlike the folks at your church). To help out your wife, without knowing your financial situation, but it seems that a quick trip to Target, Old Navy, Wal Mart, etc would solve this in no time. Buy a few cheapie tank tops (no blue or red of course) and/or some tees and you're good to go. All those places have tops for less than $15 each usually, many times in a huge array of colors and a few different styles. No stress about Tarheel blue, no gang threats, everybody's happy.
posted by ml98tu at 11:10 AM on July 12, 2006

Thanks, ml98tu. That's the general plan, as far as shopping goes. We are talking about a teenage girl, tough, y'know...
posted by Thorzdad at 11:32 AM on July 12, 2006

One my classmates in grad school related a story in which he was playing basketball in the bad part of town and went over to his team mate's house for some drinks. As they're sitting on the stoop, a car pulls up, a large man walks up to my white-as-rice classmate and introduces himself as one of the local Crips. He politely informed my classmate that his do-rag was "his" color and asked him to keep that in mind. Classmate said OK, took off the rag, shook hands, and the Crip left.
posted by GarageWine at 11:52 AM on July 12, 2006

You sound like a great dad to be so concerned, but that memo is ridicules, paranoid, intended to underscore that brown city people are dangerous. Your daughter has about as much chance of getting mistaken for a gang member as getting hit by lightening. It's absurd. Statistically, she's in more danger on the highway getting there, in unprotected prolonged exposure to the sun, or from the horny teenage boys who will want to get her drunk and grope her, assuming this is a co-ed trip. Stick to real risk, not crazy stories.
posted by tula at 12:03 PM on July 12, 2006

As a former teenage girl, I'd be all over a shopping trip! Except that might bring back on the stress you were trying to avoid :)

At the risk of getting really off-topic, this could be a unique parenting opportunity, like, "let's talk about this and your opinions and what this memo means, etc" using some of the responses to this post. Though as a former teenage girl, my guess is she might just roll her eyes at you. Could be worth a shot though, at least maybe some fodder for an enlightening dinner conversation.
posted by ml98tu at 12:08 PM on July 12, 2006

I think ml98tu has a great idea.
posted by tula at 12:22 PM on July 12, 2006

Mbd1mbd1, dame, mkultra, Amizu, scarabic, caddis, salvia, and tula should all be marked "Stupidest Answer."

Gallois and GarageWine both offered logical reasons why wearing gang colors could subject teenage white girls to unwanted attention. According to the question, the church's warning advised against wearing red or blue "because these are gang colors" — not "because your children will be mistaken for gang members."
posted by cribcage at 12:42 PM on July 12, 2006

unwanted attention

Yeah, I think a pack of kids who are clearly out of place, doing construction work, would otherwise go completely unnoticed.

Of course, nothing is more important than protecting our white women from black men, is there?
posted by mkultra at 12:50 PM on July 12, 2006

(or, more properly, Latino men)
posted by mkultra at 12:50 PM on July 12, 2006

"Stupidest Answer."

Leave that crap for MetaTalk - the green is supposed to be civilized.
posted by caddis at 12:57 PM on July 12, 2006

There are times when security theater has some value and this is probably one. The parents sending their kids off on this worthwhile venture have some anxiety about gangs and violence and while we, not having read it, can squak about xenophobia I'm willing to bet the memo was along this lines.

"We know you parents have some concerns about the environment your child is entering, but rest assured all precautions will be taken and safety is priority one. In keeping with this eye towards avoiding trouble, you can help your child keep a safe and low profile by blah blah colors clothing blah blah."

The kids are getting some education about other neighborhoods when they're on the trip but the parents might be the local version of Mitheral's cow orker and be feeling anxious. This gives them some sense of control over the situation and a feel that there's something they can do. The church shows the appearance of concern pre-emptively and helps the parents regain some sense of control in a situation where they may be wrestling not just with concern for their kids but also fears about their changing role in their kids' lives.

There's plenty of legitimate racism and shitty behavior out there without projecting it onto worried parents.
posted by phearlez at 1:10 PM on July 12, 2006

ml98tu has a point. This could be a good non-eyeroller of a conversation with your daughter if brought up correctly. Ask her if she was worried about gang colors, or whether she thinks the memo was silly.

phearlez, I agree that sometimes the super-cautious memo has value (and I think that you nailed it with the language) but I don't think that this is one of those times. My snark voice reads a memo like that and hears this:
We know that as parents, you always worry about your kids' safety. So many things could go awry when kids are travelling, particularly when you throw in construction work. But since we can't control all variables, let's focus on the fear of the unknown urban area, so that you can tell yourself that as long as your kid isn't wearing red or blue, he or she is totally safe.
posted by desuetude at 2:06 PM on July 12, 2006

spaceman_spiff, sorry, bad joke ("yellow headbands").

My point was that, imo, if they have hammers and are working on the roof of a Habitat for Humanity house, they'll be alright no matter what they're wearing. If they are selling drugs on someone else's corner (not that they'd do that), they'll be in trouble no matter what they're wearing. Probably tips on common sense behavior would be more useful than wearing only orange, green, purple, and yellow the entire time.
posted by salvia at 5:02 PM on July 12, 2006