Landlord's unrealistic cleaning demands and a couch held hostage.
October 4, 2024 1:03 AM
Please advise on how to proceed proactively and cautiously to prevent conflict from what seems like retaliatory whims after landlord spent money removing mold.
I rent a furnished basement in a house with landlords. Unrelated to mold, they were replacing furniture and removed the couch to make space for a new one. After several days without a couch, I requested it be delivered. They said “no”; I cost them money due to unspecified “neglect.” My rent was increased 20% and insist I pay $1000 for FOUR professional deep cleanings because the place is messy. I'm feeling squeezed.
I assure you nothing is filthy or caused the mold. Unusual conditions and events seem to be continually evolvw. For example, yesterday, I was told that I had to pay for moving in the new couch if I wanted it. I feel like they are trying to make me indirectly cover repair costs or scare me out. It feels punitive even.
I can’t understand how $1000 and multiple deep cleaning appointments to clean a small messy basement can seem reasonable or who would give them that idea. I’d also like a couch back, but first I’m concerned about their expectations about the absurd cleaning costs and expectations they have. My gut says it will be impossible to satisfy them. They seem ok with being uncooperative. It’s obvious why they are upset, but they haven’t actually clearly said it directly.
I’m not sure exactly what to do next, but I have a bad feeling about this. I might be overreacting, but I'm realizing that I feel like I’m in an unsolvable conflict with my dysfunctional family again. I feel a strong need to protect myself for when I predict it will get ugly. I understand why this has me kind of on edge now. It feels familiar. I’m literally in a conflict about cleaning my room just like when I was a child. What would my therapist say?
With no doubt, it’s best to move out as soon as I can. I might have to maintain the status quo for just a little while while things sort out. I would appreciate any recommendations for what might be the most prudent steps to take here.
I avoid mixing friends and money, but some friends contacted me a few years ago to ask if I was interested in renting their basement apartment. The terms were simple and flexible - month-to-month basis, furnished, no damage deposit, relatively private, and at a low monthly cost. I knew the landlady could be bossy, overbearing and had boundary issues. I considered that and the fit between our personalities, lifestyles, and attitudes toward money, but the deal was too good to pass on and was perfect for my situation at that time. It's been mostly great, but the landlady does her bossy thing sometimes, which can wear on me. I’m ready for a new place that is completely mine anyway. The landlords spend the winter in Mexico so I wanted to wait for Spring since the house will be mostly empty until then.
The mold has been taken care of, but they have turned my messy living space into a major situation. They also removed the couch so they could replace it with a new one and now refuse to bring the replacement and are making demands for me to pay for things and to do things like removing other furniture that is their job.
A few weeks ago, I decided to do a major cleaning and found damp carpet and the mold in my closet. The shower pipes had a slow drip, and the problem was out of sight behind some things stored in there. When I found it, I promptly informed my landlord and he handled it. I felt like he quietly blamed me, but he never mentioned it again and didn’t ask for any money. His wife one night insisted that I replace some moldy bed sheets from the closet, confirming my suspicions about blame. Nobody is to blame; the pipes were leaking behind a wall. It seems like a landlord concern, not a tenant one but they are now claiming I was negligent because I didn't see it sooner and I assume because I leave clothes on the floor. The lease does include a vague clause about maintaining the premises in good, clean condition and that the tenant is responsible for negligence. That's pretty subjective.
I'm not the tidiest person—I tend to be disorganized, with papers, books, and dirty clothes piled on the floor until laundry day (but not in the closet). My mess isn’t “dirty” or “filthy”, just messy. There is no trash or smells. I’m not going to attract pests, damage property, or pose a safety hazard. I’m not a hoarder, cooking meth or burying bodies under the floor. Ironically, I found the mold because my disorganization was driving me crazy. I started a major cleaning and purging process, and when that was finished, I was planning to hire a regular cleaning service. When landlords came down to see the mold, the place looked more chaotic than normal because I was moving things around. The bathroom was genuinely dirty though, not terribly so. I was going to wait for the professional cleaners to do it so I had let it go a little bit.
- When the landlords saw this coupled with a mold problem, it likely biased their attitudes against me a little, but their reactions seem to be pretty out of proportion to the current post-mold situation.
- While repairs were underway, my room was sealed for a week, so I slept on the couch and shared a bathroom, but it didn’t bother me much. I understood my landlord was dealing with a lot, like moving his father into assisted living, and that these things happen. He decided to replace my older furniture with some of his father’s nicer pieces, which I appreciated. The mold removal and associated repairs went smoothly and fast, and then things got weird.
- 10 days ago landlady texted me at work about an “emergency”. We needed to move my couch out of the basement right now because a dumpster they had rented to clean out the father’s place was being removed the next morning. She does this last-minute urgency thing. I asked about when the new couch would be arriving before deciding on getting rid of the old one. She said that I could either dump the old one now for free or choose between paying to keep the dumpster or paying to haul away the old couch when the new couch arrived. I wrongly assumed that it couldn’t take very long to get the new couch, but that evening, the landlord told me the couch was unfortunately too big to move that night and we’d need a couple of additional people to help. That sucked. I’m now without a couch and earlier that day I was really, really, really pissed off by the landlady’s urgent texts rushing me to make a decision about the couch, and especially her “take it or leave it” attitude and insistence on me being responsible for couch moving costs if I kept the old couch a few days. Now I had nowhere comfortable to sit and watch movies at night.
- Two days later, I texted about when the when the new couch would arrive. He said he'd be traveling for ten days and then handle it. That left almost two weeks without a couch, and I told him the place wasn’t comfortable without one. He confirmed movers were necessary but wouldn’t bring the couch before the carpets were cleaned. I had no problem paying for professional carpet cleaning. I told him without a couch, it was the first time I felt inconvenienced and pointed out that carpet cleaners work around furniture. He responded with his “order of operations,” which included me removing the bedroom furniture that came with the place for new bedroom furniture. I would be more than happy to help with that as part of a team, but passing all the responsibility on to me, who signed a lease agreement for a furnished place, is out of line. I appropriately pushed back and told him that all I wanted was somewhere to comfortably sit and reminded him that he rented me a furnished place that included a couch when I moved in. He responded that the place wasn’t flooded when I moved in either and that my "neglect" had cost him $3,500. He insisted nothing would happen with the couch until I followed his directions. To keep the peace, I refrained from arguing that there was no flooding and that it was just a slow water leak. Instead, I responded by thanking him for his quick response to the mold issue which I meant.
- Meanwhile, landlady had been calling professional cleaners to do a thorough cleaning because the basement didn’t meet her standards. She was giving out my phone number without my permission and rushing things to get done on her timeframe. I was planning to hire a cleaner before the mold anyway, and I can make my own arrangements and get quotes. I’m not breaking lease terms or causing problems other than upsetting her with different cleanliness standards. Yes, she owns the place, but she has no right to make decisions or tell me how to maintain it. She should be focused on replacing the couch I was pressured to unnecessarily remove on short-notice on her whim.
- When I got home the afternoon, hours after I pushed for getting the couch delivered, landlord handed me a new lease with a rent increase of just over 20%. While an increase this large isn’t illegal in my state, such a high increase is scrutinized in tenant-landlord disputes as often being made in bad faith. The price is still a good deal for the area, and I’m surprised he hadn’t raised the rent before that. However, the timing—just days after a costly repair and hours after I pushed for the couch to be replaced—feels retaliatory and likely illegal. Reducing services, such as not replacing the couch, is another common form of illegal landlord retaliation. Things now feel personal, and while I don’t plan to pursue legal action, I worry he might when I leave. Much of this is in bad faith and passive-aggressive.
- Yesterday, I messaged the landlady, letting her know that I had the carpet and tile cleaned professionally. The $250 deep cleaning quotes seemed expensive, so I was exploring other options. Her blunt response was a voice message stating that $250 for a deep clean is standard and reminded me that it’s her house not considering that as a renter, I have the right to determine how and who cleans my space as long as I meet the terms of my lease. I checked, and $250 is common for a one-time professional deep cleaning but also normally part of cleaning an entire house and not a 600 sq. ft. basement without a kitchen and no large appliances, so I’m checking with independent cleaners. She also said that according to her, my place is so dirty, and the cleaning companies said it would require 3-4 deep cleanings at $250 each, which is silly. A few minutes later, the landlady messaged me to say the new couch could be delivered anytime, but they had "run out of money for a service." If I wanted to coordinate the delivery, she said, she would be available to open the door.
I did schedule professional deep cleaners for next week and they will cost about $160 with a special discount. I also paid about $400 for professional carpet and did the tile just to make sure I was thorough. I’m looking at about $550 to $600 for cleaning, which is needed to a certain extent, but I’m spending extra to keep them off my back if possible.
For now, I moved the bed mattress out of the bedroom and put it on the floor where the couch used to be in front of the TV. It’s better than nothing, but it's not what I pay for. I don’t think I will ever meet their cleaning expectations or how it’s cleaned. I don’t think the relationships will be prepared and they have been pretty shitty anyway. I’ve been a landlord and had my place trashed. This isn’t that. I’ve paid for expensive repairs to my rental property, and I understand that, as a property owner and landlord, sometimes your personal feelings become involved in these things. I’ve cut out a lot of other details. It's even weirder than what I’m writing now.
As much as I would prefer being more assertive with this whole thing, I am trying to just “go along to get along” to avoid any conflict and be a responsible tenant and just a little extra. I’ve kept my distance and will remain a gray rock. I predict there will be uncomfortable conversations ahead. What happens when I refuse to pay to move their couch that I was just pushing them to deliver until they passed that burden on to me. I’m trying to figure out what I must do to cover my ass in the everyday more likely event I leave and am covered in the event they come looking for money later.
The connection similar to family conflict dynamics from when I was a kid says to get out as soon as is feasible, but that takes time, and I have to give 30 days' notice. I'm feeling stuck in a corner and damned, no matter how I try to explain that I won't be paying $1000 for extra cleaning or taking responsibility for moving their furniture around.
Please let me know what advice you may have to get through this personally uncomfortable situation and help me make sure I have any ducks in a row in the event that anything goes legal or conflict gets drawn out after I leave.
I assure you nothing is filthy or caused the mold. Unusual conditions and events seem to be continually evolvw. For example, yesterday, I was told that I had to pay for moving in the new couch if I wanted it. I feel like they are trying to make me indirectly cover repair costs or scare me out. It feels punitive even.
I can’t understand how $1000 and multiple deep cleaning appointments to clean a small messy basement can seem reasonable or who would give them that idea. I’d also like a couch back, but first I’m concerned about their expectations about the absurd cleaning costs and expectations they have. My gut says it will be impossible to satisfy them. They seem ok with being uncooperative. It’s obvious why they are upset, but they haven’t actually clearly said it directly.
I’m not sure exactly what to do next, but I have a bad feeling about this. I might be overreacting, but I'm realizing that I feel like I’m in an unsolvable conflict with my dysfunctional family again. I feel a strong need to protect myself for when I predict it will get ugly. I understand why this has me kind of on edge now. It feels familiar. I’m literally in a conflict about cleaning my room just like when I was a child. What would my therapist say?
With no doubt, it’s best to move out as soon as I can. I might have to maintain the status quo for just a little while while things sort out. I would appreciate any recommendations for what might be the most prudent steps to take here.
I avoid mixing friends and money, but some friends contacted me a few years ago to ask if I was interested in renting their basement apartment. The terms were simple and flexible - month-to-month basis, furnished, no damage deposit, relatively private, and at a low monthly cost. I knew the landlady could be bossy, overbearing and had boundary issues. I considered that and the fit between our personalities, lifestyles, and attitudes toward money, but the deal was too good to pass on and was perfect for my situation at that time. It's been mostly great, but the landlady does her bossy thing sometimes, which can wear on me. I’m ready for a new place that is completely mine anyway. The landlords spend the winter in Mexico so I wanted to wait for Spring since the house will be mostly empty until then.
The mold has been taken care of, but they have turned my messy living space into a major situation. They also removed the couch so they could replace it with a new one and now refuse to bring the replacement and are making demands for me to pay for things and to do things like removing other furniture that is their job.
A few weeks ago, I decided to do a major cleaning and found damp carpet and the mold in my closet. The shower pipes had a slow drip, and the problem was out of sight behind some things stored in there. When I found it, I promptly informed my landlord and he handled it. I felt like he quietly blamed me, but he never mentioned it again and didn’t ask for any money. His wife one night insisted that I replace some moldy bed sheets from the closet, confirming my suspicions about blame. Nobody is to blame; the pipes were leaking behind a wall. It seems like a landlord concern, not a tenant one but they are now claiming I was negligent because I didn't see it sooner and I assume because I leave clothes on the floor. The lease does include a vague clause about maintaining the premises in good, clean condition and that the tenant is responsible for negligence. That's pretty subjective.
I'm not the tidiest person—I tend to be disorganized, with papers, books, and dirty clothes piled on the floor until laundry day (but not in the closet). My mess isn’t “dirty” or “filthy”, just messy. There is no trash or smells. I’m not going to attract pests, damage property, or pose a safety hazard. I’m not a hoarder, cooking meth or burying bodies under the floor. Ironically, I found the mold because my disorganization was driving me crazy. I started a major cleaning and purging process, and when that was finished, I was planning to hire a regular cleaning service. When landlords came down to see the mold, the place looked more chaotic than normal because I was moving things around. The bathroom was genuinely dirty though, not terribly so. I was going to wait for the professional cleaners to do it so I had let it go a little bit.
- When the landlords saw this coupled with a mold problem, it likely biased their attitudes against me a little, but their reactions seem to be pretty out of proportion to the current post-mold situation.
- While repairs were underway, my room was sealed for a week, so I slept on the couch and shared a bathroom, but it didn’t bother me much. I understood my landlord was dealing with a lot, like moving his father into assisted living, and that these things happen. He decided to replace my older furniture with some of his father’s nicer pieces, which I appreciated. The mold removal and associated repairs went smoothly and fast, and then things got weird.
- 10 days ago landlady texted me at work about an “emergency”. We needed to move my couch out of the basement right now because a dumpster they had rented to clean out the father’s place was being removed the next morning. She does this last-minute urgency thing. I asked about when the new couch would be arriving before deciding on getting rid of the old one. She said that I could either dump the old one now for free or choose between paying to keep the dumpster or paying to haul away the old couch when the new couch arrived. I wrongly assumed that it couldn’t take very long to get the new couch, but that evening, the landlord told me the couch was unfortunately too big to move that night and we’d need a couple of additional people to help. That sucked. I’m now without a couch and earlier that day I was really, really, really pissed off by the landlady’s urgent texts rushing me to make a decision about the couch, and especially her “take it or leave it” attitude and insistence on me being responsible for couch moving costs if I kept the old couch a few days. Now I had nowhere comfortable to sit and watch movies at night.
- Two days later, I texted about when the when the new couch would arrive. He said he'd be traveling for ten days and then handle it. That left almost two weeks without a couch, and I told him the place wasn’t comfortable without one. He confirmed movers were necessary but wouldn’t bring the couch before the carpets were cleaned. I had no problem paying for professional carpet cleaning. I told him without a couch, it was the first time I felt inconvenienced and pointed out that carpet cleaners work around furniture. He responded with his “order of operations,” which included me removing the bedroom furniture that came with the place for new bedroom furniture. I would be more than happy to help with that as part of a team, but passing all the responsibility on to me, who signed a lease agreement for a furnished place, is out of line. I appropriately pushed back and told him that all I wanted was somewhere to comfortably sit and reminded him that he rented me a furnished place that included a couch when I moved in. He responded that the place wasn’t flooded when I moved in either and that my "neglect" had cost him $3,500. He insisted nothing would happen with the couch until I followed his directions. To keep the peace, I refrained from arguing that there was no flooding and that it was just a slow water leak. Instead, I responded by thanking him for his quick response to the mold issue which I meant.
- Meanwhile, landlady had been calling professional cleaners to do a thorough cleaning because the basement didn’t meet her standards. She was giving out my phone number without my permission and rushing things to get done on her timeframe. I was planning to hire a cleaner before the mold anyway, and I can make my own arrangements and get quotes. I’m not breaking lease terms or causing problems other than upsetting her with different cleanliness standards. Yes, she owns the place, but she has no right to make decisions or tell me how to maintain it. She should be focused on replacing the couch I was pressured to unnecessarily remove on short-notice on her whim.
- When I got home the afternoon, hours after I pushed for getting the couch delivered, landlord handed me a new lease with a rent increase of just over 20%. While an increase this large isn’t illegal in my state, such a high increase is scrutinized in tenant-landlord disputes as often being made in bad faith. The price is still a good deal for the area, and I’m surprised he hadn’t raised the rent before that. However, the timing—just days after a costly repair and hours after I pushed for the couch to be replaced—feels retaliatory and likely illegal. Reducing services, such as not replacing the couch, is another common form of illegal landlord retaliation. Things now feel personal, and while I don’t plan to pursue legal action, I worry he might when I leave. Much of this is in bad faith and passive-aggressive.
- Yesterday, I messaged the landlady, letting her know that I had the carpet and tile cleaned professionally. The $250 deep cleaning quotes seemed expensive, so I was exploring other options. Her blunt response was a voice message stating that $250 for a deep clean is standard and reminded me that it’s her house not considering that as a renter, I have the right to determine how and who cleans my space as long as I meet the terms of my lease. I checked, and $250 is common for a one-time professional deep cleaning but also normally part of cleaning an entire house and not a 600 sq. ft. basement without a kitchen and no large appliances, so I’m checking with independent cleaners. She also said that according to her, my place is so dirty, and the cleaning companies said it would require 3-4 deep cleanings at $250 each, which is silly. A few minutes later, the landlady messaged me to say the new couch could be delivered anytime, but they had "run out of money for a service." If I wanted to coordinate the delivery, she said, she would be available to open the door.
I did schedule professional deep cleaners for next week and they will cost about $160 with a special discount. I also paid about $400 for professional carpet and did the tile just to make sure I was thorough. I’m looking at about $550 to $600 for cleaning, which is needed to a certain extent, but I’m spending extra to keep them off my back if possible.
For now, I moved the bed mattress out of the bedroom and put it on the floor where the couch used to be in front of the TV. It’s better than nothing, but it's not what I pay for. I don’t think I will ever meet their cleaning expectations or how it’s cleaned. I don’t think the relationships will be prepared and they have been pretty shitty anyway. I’ve been a landlord and had my place trashed. This isn’t that. I’ve paid for expensive repairs to my rental property, and I understand that, as a property owner and landlord, sometimes your personal feelings become involved in these things. I’ve cut out a lot of other details. It's even weirder than what I’m writing now.
As much as I would prefer being more assertive with this whole thing, I am trying to just “go along to get along” to avoid any conflict and be a responsible tenant and just a little extra. I’ve kept my distance and will remain a gray rock. I predict there will be uncomfortable conversations ahead. What happens when I refuse to pay to move their couch that I was just pushing them to deliver until they passed that burden on to me. I’m trying to figure out what I must do to cover my ass in the everyday more likely event I leave and am covered in the event they come looking for money later.
The connection similar to family conflict dynamics from when I was a kid says to get out as soon as is feasible, but that takes time, and I have to give 30 days' notice. I'm feeling stuck in a corner and damned, no matter how I try to explain that I won't be paying $1000 for extra cleaning or taking responsibility for moving their furniture around.
Please let me know what advice you may have to get through this personally uncomfortable situation and help me make sure I have any ducks in a row in the event that anything goes legal or conflict gets drawn out after I leave.
I think that your best course of action is to gives notice and focus on finding a new place asap. Even if you have to temporarily Couch Surf or Airbnb. Don't waste anymore time, energy or money to make this work. I think this current situation cannot be resolved regardless of how hard you try.
I think possibly they do all this to get rid of you possibly for reasons that have nothing to do with you. Perhaps renting is just difficult for them.
Don't let their spending the winter in Mexico tempt you. If they give out your number i suspect they will not hesitate to send someone to check on you in their absence.
posted by 15L06 at 5:52 AM on October 4
I think possibly they do all this to get rid of you possibly for reasons that have nothing to do with you. Perhaps renting is just difficult for them.
Don't let their spending the winter in Mexico tempt you. If they give out your number i suspect they will not hesitate to send someone to check on you in their absence.
posted by 15L06 at 5:52 AM on October 4
I skimmed your post full disclosure. No idea how a lease is written for a furnished apartment where you lived, and I highly recommend you do not rent any furnished apartments in the future for two reasons*, but where I live generally whatever the landlord provides upon your move-in is considered the standard at which they must replace items.
That said, they seem like they’re past the point of no return, if they’re retaliating with a 20% increase and worsening attitudes to you, this is trending in the wrong direction and IMO your energy would be much better spent looking for a new place vs. unpacking or challenging their retaliation. Chalk the good deal you got up to a nice bonus for multiple years and leave these miserable people in the dust.
*Reason 1 - at baseline, furnished apartments give you orders of magnitude more opportunities for similarly tricky situations of who caused damage, who is supposed to replace what
*Reason 2 - in my experience, landlords who rent furnished apartments are always this or greater level of over-invested, nosy and interfering.
posted by seemoorglass at 6:11 AM on October 4
That said, they seem like they’re past the point of no return, if they’re retaliating with a 20% increase and worsening attitudes to you, this is trending in the wrong direction and IMO your energy would be much better spent looking for a new place vs. unpacking or challenging their retaliation. Chalk the good deal you got up to a nice bonus for multiple years and leave these miserable people in the dust.
*Reason 1 - at baseline, furnished apartments give you orders of magnitude more opportunities for similarly tricky situations of who caused damage, who is supposed to replace what
*Reason 2 - in my experience, landlords who rent furnished apartments are always this or greater level of over-invested, nosy and interfering.
posted by seemoorglass at 6:11 AM on October 4
As I understand it, a “month to month” agreement can be terminated on either side. I doubt they want you in their basement over the winter, so be prepared.
I believe you that you are just messy versus unhygienic. But isn't part of their grievance that the mess likely made you not notice the leak (there were moldy sheets?) as soon as you could have?
And I’m not saying they are right. But I have lived with a few slobs in my life, and I learned that a person can really get used to a mess and not even see it. So, saying “it's not a meth lab!” can sound a tad dismissive. I don’t think the landlords are handling things well, but what you see as “retaliatory” behavior can also be described as them realizing you are (in their view) a slob and a liability.
The furniture is the same disagreement in a different format. Don't even bother. From what I understand, the carpets have been cleaned, that was your part of the deal. If you stay, you'll have to kowtow to their demands and still hear the complaints. It sounds lousy, sorry.
Good luck.
posted by rhonzo at 6:31 AM on October 4
I believe you that you are just messy versus unhygienic. But isn't part of their grievance that the mess likely made you not notice the leak (there were moldy sheets?) as soon as you could have?
And I’m not saying they are right. But I have lived with a few slobs in my life, and I learned that a person can really get used to a mess and not even see it. So, saying “it's not a meth lab!” can sound a tad dismissive. I don’t think the landlords are handling things well, but what you see as “retaliatory” behavior can also be described as them realizing you are (in their view) a slob and a liability.
The furniture is the same disagreement in a different format. Don't even bother. From what I understand, the carpets have been cleaned, that was your part of the deal. If you stay, you'll have to kowtow to their demands and still hear the complaints. It sounds lousy, sorry.
Good luck.
posted by rhonzo at 6:31 AM on October 4
You should look into the tenant protection laws and tenant rights orgs for wherever you live.
posted by mrgoldenbrown at 6:36 AM on October 4
posted by mrgoldenbrown at 6:36 AM on October 4
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2) These people are no longer your friends.
3) This is not a salvageable situation. Start looking for a new place ASAP and give your 30 days notice. Be prepared for them to keep your security deposit. It will be worth it to get away from these people.
posted by hydropsyche at 5:40 AM on October 4