CC Debt cycle
August 1, 2024 1:26 PM   Subscribe

Can you help me stop living in this cc debt cycle? I am feeling extremely trapped and worried.

I recognize that I have terrible spending habits. I have been able to save in the past but I cannot seem to get ahead right now. I am guilty of being in the cycle of having moved debt around for the past 4 years.

Net monthly income after taxes – averages about $7,300/month. This can vary a lot so sometimes much lower , sometimes higher.

Mortgage $2,800 - 2.5% interest rate, doesn’t make sense to sell right now because we can’t go anywhere cheaper. Rent is higher than that around here and moving would complicate where the kids go to school. We are in a good public school system. I am open to moving but it can't happen for at least a year.

Pre-k $600/month – this will start again in September. There are no public options for prek.

Electric – varies but around $300/month (has been much higher in the summer)

Car insurance – 2 cars. $235/month. The cars are old and paid for. We are going to ride them out until they die. We keep up the maintenance and they are working fine. We live in an area that absolutely requires a car. There is no public transportation and it is not walkable.

Cell phones – 3 phones. We pay for my MIL’s phone. Phones are older $300/month

Spotify - $11/month

Internet - $85/month

Hulu Live/Disney + bundle - $85/month

Pelaton $48/month

Takeout - $200/month average. We really don’t go out a lot , this is basically pizza or similar 2x a month plus occasional sandwich out.

Groceries - $1,200/month. This probably includes some beer which we are going to reduce. I know reddit can be harsh on large grocery spending but this doesn’t feel like we are buying extravagant things. I work from home.

Gas – it’s averaged $180/month for the past 5 months.

Kid activities – about $350/month for three activities for 2 kids

House cleaner - $250/Month. They come 1x a month

Winter is coming. We will have oil deliveries starting in September. It has averaged about $500/6 weeks from September through May. We keep the heat very low, have fires, and really do what we can to use less oil .

That leaves me about $650/month. There are additional expenses and frivolous spending I have not been good at tracking. I use an excel sheet to budget and do my best but I know I am not great at this. I also have a LOT on my plate, not an excuse, but there is just limited time.

Credit cards

$9,450 wells fargo with 0 interest for 18 months . Limit is $10k, I just opened this and transferred two balances to it

$11,000 barclay with 3% interest for 11 months. Limit is $18,900

$5,900 citi with 3% interest for 9 months. Limit is $13,500

I have other cards with zero balances and high limits that I am not using.

If I make the minimum in order to pay off by the time the promo period runs out it is about $2,200/month. That is not possible. Right now I am trying to pay off the ones that will expire first and make minimum payments on others.

We have had things come up that went on cards like house things breaking (yes I know I should have been more prepared). We had a lot of medical debt that is almost finished being paid and not on the cards. It also all just has spiraled. I always think I might have a great month where I will make a lot of money and be able to make a huge payment down. I am also always hoping my partner will get a job and that would be a huge help (trying but hasn't gotten anything yet). But I am finally really scared and not sure how to handle this debt so it stops increasing. And we will sink if/when one more big thing happens around here.

Savings: $6,200. We had more but I had to dip in over the past 12 months.

I do have a 401k through my job.

I am thinking of getting a personal loan to consolidate the balances and get to a lower monthly payment. But I am very afraid that I will just rack up even more debt.

I have been the solo provider for my family (married with 2 kids) for the last 4 years. My pay is commission based and the market has been tough for the past 2 years. It varies beyond my control. When the work comes in, I work as much as I can to make as much as I can but there is only so much I can do.

I am looking for advice but please don’t be too harsh. I feel terrible about all of this. It truly keeps me up at night.

Additional question - do use anything similar to Mint for tracking money? I can’t figure out YNAB. I have tried but I don’t like rocket money.
posted by kmr to Work & Money (49 answers total) 4 users marked this as a favorite
 
My tiny little 2 cents - assuming you're in US, switch to Mint Mobile. Literally $15/month/line and no difference that I can tell from any other service. Good luck.
posted by tristeza at 1:29 PM on August 1 [12 favorites]


In general, you aren't going to get out of the hole by reducing expenses, you're going to get out by getting overall control of your cash flow and expenditures.

But a few things come to mind -- Peleton, cleaner, and car insurance. In particular the car insurance: you're paying darn near $3k/yr for 2 old cars - you are not carrying collision on these, are you? If so, you should get rid of it. If you total a car they won't pay out any money to make it worthwhile.

I would suggest the next step is to get a HELOC to consolidate the debt. This will get you a better interest rate and tax deductibility. But you are correct - if you don't have control of the system, it will give you more rope to hang yourself with.

Do not touch the 401k. Pay yourself first. Ensure you capture any match you can. You're not in so much trouble you should touch these.
posted by scolbath at 1:43 PM on August 1 [10 favorites]


You need to increase your income. Alternatively I guess your partner could do childcare and you could put that $600/month into snowballing your debt but I’m not sure that will do it (better than nothing.) Can your partner take a job outside of their field just to make money and put every paycheque against the credit cards? Even a part time job would add a lot, and psychologically working what we used to call a “Joe job” just to pay off the cards feels better than settling for a job forever.
posted by warriorqueen at 1:43 PM on August 1 [4 favorites]


There are individual things you can save money on, sure (tristeza is right: that's too much for phones, maybe also consider Google Fi), yep... drop the collision, see if you can live without the cleaner, but...

The main thing I would tell you is to try and hold on. Childcare expenses will eat a working person alive. We didn't start getting a real handle on our expenses until we were able to stop paying for pre-K and after school care. Handling your finances the day after you stop paying for childcare is like taking a deep breath after someone finally takes a boot off of your neck.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 1:45 PM on August 1 [10 favorites]


Also, for not spending, calculate your real hourly wage. Or if your partner takes a lousy job for a bit, theirs. Before you buy ANYTHING ask yourself if it’s worth that many hours.
posted by warriorqueen at 1:47 PM on August 1 [4 favorites]


It sounds like you are a family of four? Is the other adult in the house working for income or is it just you? Even a part time minimum wage job while the kids are doing Pre-K can double your monthly "leftover" money. If the other adult in the house is not working outside the home, then you need to figure it out between the two of you and eliminate the monthly cleaner, for now.

Big agree on switching to a cheaper phone provider.

I do think you can find ways to reduce your grocery expense, which is significant. If your family eats meat, try shifting to even one or two meatless days. Meat is expensive. If you're already plant-based, buy cheaper plants. Potatoes provide abundant nutrition, can be prepared a different way every day, and cost pennies per serving. Reducing your grocery bill doesn't mean serving your family ramen, but it does mean putting intentionality and time into your meal planning.

For your debt, I would focus aggressively on paying off the Citi balance as fast as you can. It's achievable, and it will make you feel good to see it gone.
posted by phunniemee at 1:50 PM on August 1 [7 favorites]


In terms of your specific expenses, you could almost certainly save some money on things as noted above by other people. I don't want to tell you how to spend your money.

Of course, your expenses are only one side of the equation; the other side is income. It sounds like you're doing what you can in terms of your own income but that it's not all under your control. However, if your partner is not working at all outside the home, they could probably find something to bring in a little extra, even if it's not glamorous or especially lucrative. If your partner can work 10-15 hours a week, that would be something coming in that you could use to chip away at the credit card debt. It may also be worth reconsidering whether it's worth paying for childcare if your partner could do it.

Absolutely, consolidate the debt if you can.

Budgeting will help you keep track of all of this better. YNAB, spreadsheet, Mint, whatever. The first step to getting control is to understand where all your money is going. This is how you can get a handle on your "additional expenses and frivolous spending I have not been good at tracking".
posted by number9dream at 1:52 PM on August 1 [1 favorite]


So what did you buy to rack up your credit card debt? Anything significant? Medical issues?

If you can reduce your food and your kid activities then I think you'd be ok. Switch to 2 activities and do more park/family time..

I wouldn't consolidate your debt yet, not while your interest rates are low. 3% is good.
Get rid of the house cleaner.


Electric at $300 seems high too, and that goes to $600 in the winter? That's super high, or does the gas delivery go up and electricity goes down?
posted by The_Vegetables at 1:56 PM on August 1 [1 favorite]


But I am finally really scared and not sure how to handle this debt so it stops increasing.

Specifically in regard to this part, you cannot put any more charges on credit cards. You are a cash only family now. The debt will only stop increasing when you stop increasing your debt.

The only activity you should be making with your credit cards for the indefinable future is making payments on them. Otherwise they are just decorative plastic in your wallet. Not money.
posted by phunniemee at 2:02 PM on August 1 [24 favorites]


Agreed on what everyone is saying on this, and adding one thing that appreciably helped me pay down the credit card debt back when I could only pay the minimum - split that payment into two parts, paying half two weeks before it's due and the other half right when it's due.

The easiest way to do this is by scheduling this with online banking. Auto pay twice a month. And put those credit cards in a block of ice in the freezer.
posted by queensissy at 2:16 PM on August 1 [1 favorite]


The only activity you should be making with your credit cards for the indefinable future is making payments on them. Otherwise they are just decorative plastic in your wallet. Not money.

They shouldn't even be in the wallet. Put them somewhere that can be challenging to get to. If you have them saved in your browser or a password manager, remove them.

I wonder where you live, because some of your expenses just seem high, at least based on where I am (small isolated city in the western US). For example, if going out for pizza twice per month and a sandwich here or there cost me $200 per month, I would stop going out completely. I recently priced a pizza order in my city and even through DoorDash, with a ton of wings, it was around $70. If I picked it up and skipped the wings, probably around $30-40. And I would cry if I was paying even $100-120 for electricity in a month, but I also don't have an air conditioner. Speaking of an air conditioner, do you have one or more? Can it/they be run less often, or set the thermostat to a higher temp so they don't run as long?

As everyone has said, you can attack this either by reducing expenses (or more importantly, habits and mindsets), or by increasing income. Yes, reducing a large expense makes a much bigger difference than going after small expenses, but it all adds up. Here are things I would really reconsider, either put in the work to figure out how to reduce them, or skip them altogether, even if you just skip it for 3-6 months:

* Pizza x2 per month (does it have to be twice every month? Do you have a Papa Murphys or similar where you can pick up the ingredients and make the pizza at home? It's usually cheaper)

* Peloton (there are definitely cheaper options for exercise)

* Spotify (honestly, this is really a nice to have, not a requirement)

* Disney / Hulu (same, you don't actually need it, especially the live tv part which is what makes it so expensive)

* House cleaner (everyone would have to pitch in more with cleaning, but at that cost, it would be worth it)

I understand wanting to keep some nice to haves in place for the kids, so of course pick and choose what makes the most sense, but at least one or two of these could be addressed.

Again, you could reduce or skip any of these, or all of these, for just a few months. Can you live without live TV for a month and get that bundle down to about $15? Then put the saved $60 toward a credit card. Or skip Spotify for 2-3 months and put the money toward a card. It's not a lot, but every bit helps when you are just compounding the total debt with interest.

As to the credit cards and spending in general, how often do you review your spending? Traditionally (at least based on when I learned this kind of stuff in the 1980s-1990s) I think people say to review monthly, but personally I review every weekend. If I notice I just spent $200 on something that was really optional, I'm aware of it and can adjust my spending the next week to account for it.
posted by Meldanthral at 2:28 PM on August 1 [3 favorites]


When Mint went down, I switched to Monarch -- I like it a lot. I am paying for it, however. I think it's $100 a year. But you and your spouse can both track your individual accounts if you have them.

Otherwise, I do think if your spouse isn't working and is physically capable of doing so, they need to take over the cleaner's gig and you can shove that $250 at your debt. That's $3k a year, more than half your Citi debt. But obviously, the key is to bring in more money. Which I know is easier said than done.
posted by Countess Sandwich at 2:59 PM on August 1 [2 favorites]


Kid activities – about $350/month for three activities for 2 kids

This one stood out to me - are they both in pre-K? How many hours a day are they in school? I know it sounds (and probably feels) terrible to stop enriching activities for the kids, but if they're both that young, this really is unnecessary. When I was that age my school day was much shorter than most kids' today (it ended around noon) and I didn't have any paid activities. But I got a lot of enrichment in other ways. When I think of kids I know today who are that age, few of them have afterschool activities (I don't even know when there would be time for it, since their pre-K ends in the late afternoon) and they too get a ton of enrichment both at school and at home.

YMMV with respect to the role the activities play in giving you and your partner downtime during the week.

Looking at the entertainment budget... I can't afford to pay for entertainment services and nonetheless lack for nothing in that respect. There are a lot of both free and piratical avenues here. Some of the free ones are also offline, which reduces data usage, which may or may not let you change or eliminate your internet bill on the off chance that you don't need high speeds to work for home. (I spent a few years using just a phone hotspot for internet since I was able to have a relatively high data cap for pretty cheap, which may not be the case for you. It worked fine, though; a little slow but I didn't mind.)

Anyway, if you need ideas about how to get your fill of music, tv, etc. on a minimal budget, post an Ask.

Belt tightening doesn't have to last forever. If you two are able to combine it with added income, you should be able to start seeing the debt numbers go down pretty quickly.
posted by trig at 3:13 PM on August 1 [7 favorites]


We pay for my MIL’s phone.

Tell your partner you can no longer afford this. If they want to pay for their mother's phone, they need to come up with the funds for it. Does she have another family member who could take on this cost?

I feel terrible about all of this. It truly keeps me up at night.

American society is geared toward making debt feel like a moral judgement on a person, when really it is just a practical problem that needs to be dealt with. In your question, it sounds like in addition to the financial stresses, you may be feeling emotionally bad about yourself for being in this situation. Please do your best to free yourself from that. You're being a good parent and trying to do right by your family. Asking for help here is a step in the right direction.

I don't know if you're on social media at all, but a lot of people I see have a venmo or cashapp link in their social media profile and periodically just say "hey it's been a rough day, I'd really like an ice tea, how about sending me $5" (or however much). If you don't already do this, it might bring in a little. Have a little saved copy/paste thank-you note to send people.
posted by Pallas Athena at 3:19 PM on August 1 [7 favorites]


Best answer: Cutting expenses by definition can only get you so far. You need to increase income if at all possible. It's not clear how old the kids all are, but if pre-K is for the youngest and the others are in school, your spouse needs to find some work, even part-time work, for the hours come fall when the house is empty. Bringing in even a few hundred a month could help a lot in your present situation. (Note that if you are both working then you need to be very conscious and deliberate about splitting up child care duties equitably! That probably means more for you, but your spouse can't be 'on duty' for the household with outside-the-home work and child care 24/7.)

On the expenses side:

* The phone thing is unreasonable. My prepaid Verizon wireless plan is like $45/mo. No, it's not unlimited, but what do you need unlimited for?

* Hulu/Disney + Peloton need to go, for now.

* The kids' activities may not be over the top, objectively speaking, but they are over the top for your household right now. I know it sucks, but try to frame stopping them as a short-term measure to right the household's financial ship. If the kids are both young, they won't suffer excessively--they don't have their expectations built up yet as to how they should be spending their time.

Finally: all the guilt and shame are not only useless, but counterproductive. They make you despair. They weaken your resistance to unnecessary spending because "what's the use of trying? Might as well enjoy this small treat!" And I'm sure they undermine your relationship with your spouse and ultimately will with your kids as well. Don't consider self-flagellation the cost of asking for help!

This is fucking capitalism, man. The difference between the me of 15 years ago nearly $200K in the red with a credit score flirting with 600 and the me of now with a net worth you can at least see without squinting and a credit score around 800 is almost entirely increase in income. I didn't become a better, smarter, more virtuous, more restrained person. I was fortunate enough to find my way to an adequate income. That's 90% of it.
posted by praemunire at 3:19 PM on August 1 [17 favorites]


(Also, you need to be having all these conversations with your spouse! You guys are a team and you need to pull together to get yourselves out of this uncomfortable position.)
posted by praemunire at 3:22 PM on August 1 [12 favorites]


Also if your partner really can't find any work (including gig work), then at least once school starts up they should not only be handling the cleaning but also finding ways to, like, halve the grocery bill. Having time to cook and plan helps a lot with that. If you/they need help with that, track your purchases for a month and then post here for advice.

If you find the belt-tightening hard psychologically - which would be natural considering you'll be getting fewer treats of various kinds than you've been used to, and it will probably feel like all your peers are getting those treats and living better than you - all I can say is watching debt disappear is a really satisfying feeling, and aside from that the level of comfort we live in today is unprecedented. Nobody felt denied at not having infinite TV content, for example, before that existed.

Re: watching debt disappear - is your spouse tracking your finances too, or is it just you? If it's just you, that needs to change.
posted by trig at 3:25 PM on August 1 [3 favorites]


I'd put $150 each toward the Wells Fargo and Barclays each month. Then put the majority of your extra cash toward the Citi card. You'll get it paid off first, then move onto the Barclay card.

If your spouse isn't working, please see if they can put in some time: negotiating a lower insurance rate; researching a lower cell phone plan; more cooking; more cleaning. They can look for more free or low-cost kids activities too.

Here's where I think you can save. And every penny saved should go toward Citi:
Cell phone:at least $150
Spotify - use the free version, or pandora: $11
Hulu - switch to non-live: $70
Peloton: $48
Groceries - this feels a bit high. Look at ways to trim costs: save $200
Kids Activities - Cut way back: $250
Cleaner - Sorry, but cut it out for now: $250

This gets you about $1000 per month! You'll be out from under Citi in 5 months.

Another big thing: Do you need two cars? Can you live with one?

I'm sorry you're in this position, and it sounds quite stressful, but you can dig out. Spend your time with like-minded folks, and take from them ideas that are feasible. I do believe that every little bit helps, and that this can be done on your salary alone. Good Luck!!
posted by hydra77 at 3:31 PM on August 1 [1 favorite]


Of your list of monthly expenditures, many/most of the nice upper-middle-class families of my acquaintance do not have, and seem absolutely fine without:

-Peloten
-Spotify
-Disney +/ Hulu (if this is for kid engagement/ parent sanity purposes, seriously, just get a couple of $10 DVDs and use yt-dlp to download a bunch of additional .MP3s. Kids in preschool don't need the latest hot content)
-3 activities (guarantee they won't remember these at all when they're adults. if anything, overscheduling makes kids passive and uncreative. And transport to activities uses gas, double savings)
-housecleaner

If your spouse is not currently employed, and has been seeking work for a very long period of time, is there a chance they would appreciate removing the pressure and officially becoming a stay-at-home parent for a couple of years, eliminating the expense of pre-K?
posted by Bardolph at 3:35 PM on August 1 [4 favorites]


Ask your spouse to investigate your local library system’s offerings. A lot of them these days have enormous digital libraries you can access, and discounted or even free membership or tickets to things all around the region with your library card, especially kids. Stop with Hulu etc at least temporarily and see how you get by with borrowing library media, and take advantage of the kid enrichment activities that are on offer. That could be anything from story time at the library itself to free access for the whole family to an aquarium. Your spouse might appreciate taking initiative in this way instead of the constant slog of job applications. They may have more success with seasonal work as weather gets colder to offset the heating.
posted by Mizu at 3:44 PM on August 1 [5 favorites]


Luxuries you have that I did not when my kids were little, even though their father and I were both working:

Two cars (this makes a huge difference)
House cleaner
Kid activities (including preschool; we utilized playgrounds, library story times, and parent groups for socialization)
Takeout
Expensive cell phone plans
A higher grocery bill (consider beans, rice, and frozen produce)
Peloton
Streaming services

Some of those may be important for your family's sanity; some may be luxuries you can't currently afford. I know from experience that it sucks when your peers can afford a lot more than you, but unfortunately that's how it goes sometimes, and you have to make hard choices. :(
posted by metasarah at 3:48 PM on August 1 [3 favorites]


AT&T postpaid is about $50 a month for unlimited on a family plan (less if you chose one of the "less unlimited" unlimited plans) so I am realllllly curious who you are paying $300 a month for 3 lines. Whoever it is, change them.
posted by tubedogg at 3:51 PM on August 1 [1 favorite]


(that is, $50 a month per line)

(i can't find the edit button. did it get removed?)
posted by tubedogg at 3:52 PM on August 1 [1 favorite]


A lot of people have given some good advice already, and I'm in a similar position in terms of looking into consolidating my debt. So I just wanted to say, don't give yourself too hard of a time. The system we live in in the US (laughably expensive childcare/no universal pre-K, wages not going up with costs, etc) doesn't make it easy, especially as a sole family provider. I hope you can find a way to slowly get out of this debt, and I think you will. I can't say not to stress over this, but I can say that you shouldn't feel guilty for doing your absolute best in a system that makes it so hard to so many of us to really thrive.
posted by Molasses808 at 4:00 PM on August 1 [4 favorites]


I agree with all the budget advice but I feel there's an undercurrent in your question: how can we be more disciplined about spending when it seems so much like deprivation? Financial discipline is especially hard when you're earning a decent amount of money because it seems like you should be able to actually enjoy your money, and you can't. Instead, you're losing sleep and finances are probably adding stress to your relationship.

There is no world in which you can continue to spend as you are and earn what you are. I'm sorry. If you hoped that a MeFite would have a magic answer where you could do both, you will be disappointed.

Debt consolidation is great idea but only if you immediately cancel all your credit card spending. I've consolidated debt twice, and then racked up even more debt than I started with because I didn't cancel the credit cards, even though I swore I wouldn't incur any more debt. A family member went through two "consumer proposals" which allowed her to get out from under her debt, but she went right back to the habits that buried her. Her next step is bankruptcy.

Debt consolidation seems like one of those magic solutions, and it works, providing you cancel all your credit card spending and move to cash only, all the time, no exceptions.

I was able to cancel my credit card accounts for spending, while making monthly payments. I didn't have to pay off the whole amount when I cancelled the card but continued making payments until the debt was paid off. But I was unable to make any more charges against it. However, I'm in Canada and debt works a bit differently here than it does in the US, where I think you're writing from.

You'll have to decide what expenses are necessities. This is really hard. The root of the word "decide" is the same as the root of all the murder words, like homicide, fratricide, and regicide. It's because any decision automatically kills off all the other options. And it's only human nature to want all the options, and especially hard if you see other people get to have them and you don't.

You are going to need some time to establish and implement systems. Try to switch thinking from time "spent" to time "invested" to help you manage the energy you need. Does 3 hours save you $300 this year? That's "earning" $100/hour, which is not bad money. Plus, at this point, this is urgent care.

These things helped me.

• Tracking and forecasting spending. We used a spreadsheet that's grown quite complex over the years, but initially was little more than what you've laid out already. I'm sure there will be MeFites who can recommend apps and templates, and I bet there are a ton of YouTube videos on how to set these things up.

• We began putting aside a little money each month into an "emergency" fund. We were able at first to make it $50 per month. That money is to be used only for emergencies, like a car needing an unexpected repair, not a car needing a regular oil change. Within 3 or 4 months we were able to make it $100 per month. After a year we made it $200 per month. But this is money that is saved first before any other expenditure. There's a reason that every financial advisor says, "Pay yourself first". It is absolutely foundational to every other piece of financial advice.
Having an emergency fund like this means that you're not paying for contingencies with a credit card. An emergency paid for with cash ends with the payment. Paid for with credit means it takes forever for the emergency to pass. It will take a while for the fund to build because you'll be dipping into it from time to time. But make it your most important commitment.
Decide what amount will be enough (although it might be a few years before you reach that goal). For us, when we began, the goal was to have return airfare for a parent's unexpected serious illness or demise, about $4,000 because we lived across the country from our parents. I've since decided that I'm comfortable with $6,000 against an emergency.

• Give yourselves pocket money each month, a set amount of money each of you gets to spend without consulting the other. In your situation right now, it might be as little as $25 each per month. You may need to negotiate what constitutes a joint/family/household purchase and what should be a "pocket money" purchase. But talking about money with your partner is not necessarily a bad thing. And having even a tiny bit of completely discretionary spending money made the discipline easier to bear.

• The website "PowerPay" from Utah State University extension services helped enormously to see how to implement debt repayment exactly and its consequences. Whether you use a "snowball" or "avalanche" approach, this website will help you see the results.

• Know that you will be too tired to cook and plan for it. Keep some pizza/taco/tortilla kits or frozen pizzas in the freezer and use them instead of ordering in or going out. Cook once and eat more than once deliberately (casseroles, soups, etc.) so there's always at least one instant dinner in the freezer. When my kids were little I planned a 14-day rotation of supper menus, and put them on repeat. When they were a little older (about 8 or so) I included them in the planning so they could each name some favourites.

A lot of people have pointed out areas where it seems you can make some economies. None of them seem excessive to me, and some—implementing a family-based cleaning system including your kids, free family time activities, free fitness activities—will have long-lasting benefits.

I understand why your partner wouldn't be able to earn money for more than a few hours per week, but at this point if they brought in an extra $100 per month, it would help enormously. There are a number of "how to earn money from home" AskMes for ideas.

I have an iffy relationship with "manifestation", the idea that prayer and visualization help achieve your goals (the sort of thing that won't get much support on MF). But where they are useful is as a reminder of what's important. It can help make disciplined spending easier if you write out, "We have enough money to pay for a holiday with the kids in cash" or "We enjoy our debt-free life" every night to help keep you focused on that goal.
posted by angiep at 4:05 PM on August 1 [13 favorites]


As someone with only Internet and not even good digital OTA reception, I still would consider Hulu Live an absolute luxury. Sports, of course, is a principal attraction of such "live" services, and though my wife is a live sports addict, she's learned to live without it. Buy a $25 digital antenna and see what your over-the-air reception options are. Other streaming services may be worthwhile: Paramount+ gives you your local CBS station in real-time, for instance, and we pay $10 a month to our local PBS station to get their streaming service. There's a lot of free entertainment on Tubi, FreeV, and Pluto (this may depend on your streaming device; we have a Roku box).

I agree with others: drop the Peloton, drop the housecleaning, get cheaper cell phone service, try to bring in extra cash, find cheaper eating-out options or just don't eat out for a while, drop the collision insurance on your cars.

Good luck! You can do this!
posted by lhauser at 5:05 PM on August 1 [3 favorites]


I feel like those saying "do you need two cars?" may be overlooking the fact that both cars are paid off and both are old.

Per OP: We live in an area that absolutely requires a car. There is no public transportation and it is not walkable.

Right now, if one car needs repairs you have a backup. Whereas if your *only* car is in the shop, that's a much bigger problem in an area like this.

In your situation I'd keep both, but if one dies I wouldn't replace it. Definitely shop around to make sure you have the best possible rate on the insurance. Hope at least one will last till you're back on your feet.
posted by Pallas Athena at 5:11 PM on August 1 [6 favorites]


Do some research and get some insurance quotes. You can probably get it down to 100-125 a month for the two cars, especially if you give up collision and just have liability with decent coverage.

Call your internet provider, tell them it's too expensive, ask for a lower rate. Seriously. It works.
posted by Slinga at 5:25 PM on August 1 [3 favorites]


Let's start off with the practical. I've listed utilities as "fixed" although depending on how tight you want to get both those and groceries really are variable.
Monthly     Activity         Category
$2800       mortgage         fixed
$1200       groceries        fixed
$600        pre-K            fixed
$350        kid activities   variable
$330        oil              fixed
$300        electric         fixed
$300        cell phones      variable
$250        house cleaner    luxury
$235        car insurance    fixed
$200        takeout          luxury
$180        gas              fixed
$85         internet         variable
$85         media (TV)       luxury
$48         Pelaton          luxury
$11         media(spotify)   luxury
Reorganized:
Monthly     Activity         Category
$2800       mortgage         fixed
$1200       groceries        fixed
$600        pre-K            fixed
$330        oil              fixed
$300        electric         fixed
$235        car insurance    fixed
$180        gas              fixed
$350        kid activities   variable
$300        cell phones      variable
$85         internet         variable
$250        house cleaner    luxury
$200        takeout          luxury
$85         media (TV)       luxury
$48         Pelaton          luxury
$11         media(spotify)   luxury
So if you cut the luxuries you bring your free cash from $650/month to $1244/month, which leaves a lot more room for dental emergencies and the like.

I suspect you can do a *lot* better with a cell phone family plan, possibly bundled with internet service. I'll put a stake in the ground and say you can bump at least $100 off the $385 you're paying for those.

So, without laying a finger on your budget for children's activities, you can double basically double the amount of cash you have available each month.

Psychological:

Putting the credit card in the block of ice is no longer that useful in these days of online payments (note to self: start "online credit card icecube" service).

However, I strongly suspect you are aware of the total amount credit available to you right now and that amount is a lot larger than it should be. You are skint, and you need to feel that every time you want to spend money.

Cancel the credit cards with no balance(*). Perhaps keep one that has no online presence and really do keep it in the freezer for true emergencies.

If you're going to feel guilty, feel guilty that you're not doing something on any given day to help the situation you're in(**). And when deciding to make a sandwich at home or wielding a mop let yourself feel the progress and not be guilty for a while.

It's going to take a while to climb out of this hole but I think you can do it and even feel good about the process.

My $0.02 .


(*) Technically having more credit cards can be good for your credit score, but in your current position you're not fooling anyone with that. Clean up this mess and then get fancy.

(**) Today, for example, you wrote this question. Give your guilt a day off.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 5:29 PM on August 1 [8 favorites]


It can be hard to find a job, depending on what your skills are and where you live, so I am not at all judging your spouse for not having work outside the house, but -- for the time period they don't, they can definitely do what the house cleaner now does and save you $250 a month right there.
posted by escabeche at 5:36 PM on August 1 [6 favorites]


Medical debt? Renegotiate that. Extend the payment plan. Don't let that debt enlarge other debt.
posted by dobi at 5:38 PM on August 1 [6 favorites]


I have Visible, 25/month, runs on Verizon. Get that or similar for 2 phones, get their upgraded version 30/mo for your phone which you probably need for work.
Accept Spotify with ads.
Full-time parenting spouse. Ask them to get a weekend job at Sbux or anywhere that pays something.
Full-time parenting spouse. Can they have other kids stay - for money? Casual child care is usually not subject to rules, depending on your state. There are parents who need a morning a couple times a week, and this can really help.
See if you can spend a little less on kids' stuff. Go to the park, fly kites, whatever.
Do you buy lunch? Take a bagged lunch.
Cook from scratch, reduce meat and cheese. Beans are wonderful and the staple of many curries, also super healthy. Pasta. Frozen veg are equally nutritious and don't turn to slime if they get lost at the back of the fridge.
Cheap paper towels and trash bags and sandwich bags work just fine and can make some difference.
No heat til Mid-October no heat after mid-April. I'm in Maine, and that's my schedule. AC set at 79, not lower than 77. Heat set at 65, not higher than 68. I don't have AC at all, but with the increased temps, will have it next summer.
You can't afford the cleaner.
You can barely afford Hulu and Peleton.
kids need clothes, shoes, stuff, and that's not built in. I'm a bit envious of families using Buy Nothing and saving a ton on kids clothes and gear, didn't exist my my kid was young.
Close 2 of the 3 unused Cc accounts.

You didn't note the monthly minimum payments. You feel shame, but this is not an unusual level of CC debt. Use any method you like, but make a plan to pay them down. No lunch or dinner or takeout until Wells Fargo is paid according to plan for the month. No Kids activities until Barclay is paid according to plan. Citi not paid according to plan? pause Hulu.
wells fargo 9,450
barclay 11,000
citi 5,900
total debt 26,350

385 isn't much for paying off 26,000, you have to find a way to carve something out of the expenses.

For your own accountability, review credit cards charges with your spouse once a week. It will help you reduce usage. Set goals. When you reach them have a splurge - maybe some good beer with the pizza that month, whatever, but rewards are great at changing habits.
posted by theora55 at 5:52 PM on August 1 [4 favorites]


Remember, the dollar you save is far more valuable than the dollar you earn. To earn a dollar, you have to incur the expenses to get to work, pay tax on that dollar, etc.

With the dollar you save, it's all yours - no tax, no expense.

So do a data dump of your spending, either 6 or 12 months, and go looking where you can save.
posted by Barbara Spitzer at 5:54 PM on August 1 [4 favorites]


A few more things I don’t think I’ve seen addressed:
- Look around your house and sell some of your items. Sell things like extra TVs, bikes, furniture that’s not in use, hobby equipment, motorized items, etc. It might mean taking a “loss” on those items, but in a debt emergency, it all helps.

- It sounds like you’re working very hard, trying to make the finances work, and staying up at night worrying. Does your partner know the full extent of the financial situation? If they haven’t taken an interest in household finances, they might not understand why you’re worried, and it might be a factor in reluctance to find paying work and to let go of extra expenses like childcare, child activities and cleaning,
posted by third word on a random page at 5:59 PM on August 1 [7 favorites]


probably includes some beer
Probably, or definitely? How much are you spending on alcohol exactly?

which we are going to reduce
This doesn’t sound convincing. Just quit, altogether, immediately. It’s a totally unnecessary expense that racks up insidiously because people have a weird relationship with alcohol where they simply won’t acknowledge, even to themselves, how much they drink. But this isn’t about any kind of hangup or shame, this is purely about saving your money. Temporarily!
posted by kapers at 7:06 PM on August 1 [2 favorites]


Do you have a credit union near you? A lot of them offer free financial coaching to members and have trained coaches who can help you think about your budget and serve as an accountability partner. Plus, if it does make sense to consolidate your debt, they can probably offer you a good deal on a consolidation loan. Sometimes just having that outside person you've committed to share your progress with can be really motivating, and they can probably offer good pointers on where you can save given your local context since everyone they're coaching will be from your area and facing similar childcare cost and other cost of living challenges.

Also, I'll second everyone saying to shop around on telecom (I live in NYC--so a very high cost of living place--and pay $65/month for cable + internet and $60/month total for 2 unlimited cell phone plans though my internet provider), see if you can find some way to save on electricity and heating (the low-hanging fruit is to heat and cool your house less, but it's possible all the new Inflation Reduction Act credits & programs coming online might let you do things like upgrade your appliances/heating/cooling systems and have it paid for through credits and a loan with a payment that's offset by your utility bill savings - your utility company likely has a navigator program to help with this stuff), and cut your tv, peloton, takeout/grocery and housecleaning expenses. I have much less pressure on my budget than you do and will happily impulse buy $30 of tropical fruit at a time, yet my mind boggled at how much you're spending in those categories, so I'm confident you could cut those back and still watch good tv, exercise and eat delicious meals. For groceries, it could be as simple as doing some comparison shopping between stores - do you have Trader Joe's, Aldi or other discount supermarkets near you? Amazon fresh sometimes has surprisingly good prices too.
posted by snaw at 7:22 PM on August 1 [2 favorites]


Really talk to your partner and make sure you are both aware of the financial situation, both able to track expenses and see what has and hasn't been paid, and that you are both aware you are in crisis and need to make fundamental changes. And then talk to your kids about it too. It's not scary for them to understand how the world works, or to see resilience in action, but quiet desperation, depression, tension, and parental disagreements around money can hit hard.

I don't want to disparage your partner, but part of pulling equal weight in this sort of situation is making up for the lack of a second income by taking care of the kids and putting in extra time doing things like scoping out different grocery stores and understanding what to buy at each store to keep costs low. If your partner isn't an active participant in the finances, figure out how they can be. If they are, make sure their contribution is seen and appreciated even if their contribution doesn't come in the form of a paycheck.

It does sound like some cuts need to be made, and one option might be the cleaner, but don't make that a sticking point with your partner. Have a conversation about it. Feelings are so important, and it may be that the cost of the cleaner is worth the piece of mind or whatever else it provides you or others in your family. If that cost isn't cut, though, then others *must* be cut further. It's a tradeoff that depends on values and perspectives and that really has to be talked over to figure out.

That said, I'm sympathetic about your grocery bill, and for a family of four, it's not that bad. Groceries are just crazy expensive now.

I recommend trying to figure out 3-5 extremely low cost meals that everyone is actually, truly, genuinely happy with that you can make 2x per week. It doesn't have to feel like a sacrifice. For example, I find grilled cheese sandwiches and tuna salad sandwiches to be delicious and cheap. Add a bag of salad and you could almost convince yourself it's a healthy meal.

I also think your takeout budget could be cut in half while still having the same number of nights each month where you don't have to make food. Get shittier pizza from Little Caesars, or frozen pizza that you bake at home, instead. Eat at Chipotle, but only buy 2 burritos and cut them in half. That's still a meal's worth of calories for most people, and if it's not filling enough you can keep a bag of chips and salsa at home to supplement. Get creative and I think you can figure it out while still having a similar experience in terms of treating yourself and the kids.

One last thought: keep adding a small amount to your savings as well. Even $50 / month will help when the inevitable unexpected bill arrives. That's $600 a year. In 12 months you'll be well on your way to half a water heater, or a cheap replacement washer or stove, or whatever else you wind up needing.
posted by Number Used Once at 7:37 PM on August 1 [3 favorites]


Debt Payoff Pro is a really nice little calculator app that helps you to organize all of your debts and prioritize the smartest payment priorities using the snowball method. I used it a few years and found it really rewarding to tackle the debts intelligently and to see that increasing progress as I moved through the debts.
posted by chuke at 8:35 PM on August 1 [2 favorites]


Not sure where you live, but some of the things you are paying for, like Spotify and movies, can be replaced for free by the library. Our library also has free tickets to local museums, which could replace some of the kids activities. It may be helpful to not think that this is a lifelong adjustment, but rather if you did this for 3, 6, or 12 months, where could it get you.
posted by Toddles at 9:08 PM on August 1 [4 favorites]


Get YNAB and watch all the videos and scour the subreddit. I know you said you don’t get it but you should try very hard to get it if at all possible. It will reduce your stress around money a huge, huge amount.

I suspect you have an income problem rather than just spending problem. People are focusing on your spouse, but you may need to look for another job where you make more and/or are not as worried about variable income.
posted by knobknosher at 10:16 PM on August 1 [1 favorite]


I use an excel sheet to budget and do my best but I know I am not great at this. I also have a LOT on my plate, not an excuse, but there is just limited time

Just to reiterate something that's been said before - you have a lot on your plate and limited time. Your partner, at least come September, is going to have lots of time unless they start working full time. Unless there are factors you haven't discussed, money may be short but time isn't.

This entire post is very much framed as your failings, your efforts, your responsibilities, your guilt. Is this all on you because your partner doesn't want to take an active part, or is it because you've decided it's your role to do this all on your own and you've been keeping the responsibility, and awareness of the situation, away from them? Do you feel you'd be letting them down if you told them that all this time you haven't been finding miraculous ways to make the math work after all?

Either way, it doesn't make sense and isn't helping. Both of you should be looking at this as a project to take on together. If you really are feeling guilt about not being able to do miracles and keeping that information from them - don't bother with guilt, but be open with them and get out of this cycle.
posted by trig at 2:46 AM on August 2 [10 favorites]


There are really good suggestions above about ways to handle budgeting, reduce specific expenses, and reorganize.

Speaking from my childhood experience, as well as from a period in time when I was working like a dog to save money and pay off debts: I think you are spending too much on luxuries. There may be good reasons for that, but--speaking from the experience of having family and friends who are or have been in positions like yours--there are always ways to justify a luxury as a need. This is not a guilt thing, nor a shame thing, merely an observation.

My suggestion: set yourself a fixed period of pre-planned scrimping, saving, and self-deprivation. 4 months, 6 months, a year--whatever you think you can live with. See how you feel at the end of that period, in terms of weighing the extra you've been able to pay down your debt vs. alcohol, peloton, cleaner, whatever. You may find the relief worth the austerity.
posted by cupcakeninja at 4:35 AM on August 2 [2 favorites]


Response by poster: Thank you all for the responses. I am switching to mint, cancelled peloton subscription, changed hulu package to no ads and no live for $15/month (!), reached out to insurance about removing collision. Decided to hold off on one of the kid activities for a few months to save some $. And am reconsidering the level of prek the one gets enrolled in for september. I also printed out my budget and cc statements and told my spouse we need to have a discussion.
posted by kmr at 7:49 AM on August 2 [18 favorites]


also printed out my budget and cc statements and told my spouse we need to have a discussion.

I know you got a lot of great advice about luxuries etc. but I really think having your spouse on board will be game changer for stress. Go you.
posted by warriorqueen at 8:40 AM on August 2 [7 favorites]


cancelled peloton subscription

Having to cut back sucks, so be sure you figure out some way to keep up with your health. That's extremely important for your long term health, and exercise supposedly has positive impacts on your short-term mental health. Doesn't have to be dramatic - walks with the kids or just anything you can do to get some physical activity and some steps in.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:40 AM on August 2 [2 favorites]


So I have cut my way way, way, way down on debt through a few things, and here’s what stands out to me:

1) Grocery budget isn’t itemized, and doesn’t need to be, but what does need to happen is you need to save your receipts for about a month. At the end of the month, look at the receipts. Does anything look bigger than it should? One of the things that I realized is that certain things have gone up in cost such that I no longer value them at that price point anymore. Some common culprits:
a) meats: they have gone up about twice to three times in price even for cheaper cuts. You might be thinking you are saving by getting hamburger, for example, when pork would actually be significantly cheaper and tastier.
b) canned sodas. This may be a transportation issue, but a sleeve of soda can be 10$ these days.
c) Separate your alcohol from your grocery budget. It may or not be too high, but you should get out of the habit of linking the two.
d) Frozen pizzas are no longer cheap
e) If you do grocery delivery in any way, everything is significantly more expensive beyond just the delivery fee; they actually upcharge you on every item.

2) With that high a phone bill, you have equipment charges. Separate out the equipment charges and think of them as debt, not a monthly bill. Paying them off early will free up monthly money faster than any other method.

3) I actually think the subscriptions aren’t your biggest deal and can make you feel more normal, but I’m going to ask you: are there any emotional reasons for your spending? Do you or your spouse have expectations of a higher socioeconomic status than you actually have the income for, or a feeling that your level of income should have bought your way into a decent socioeconomic status where you don’t have to be penny pinching? I’ve noticed that nothing creates debt like emotional spending out of beliefs about what is “normal”.
posted by corb at 10:51 AM on August 2 [7 favorites]


Hey so I know everyone is saying "your spouse needs to earn an income" but I also want you to feel like someone acknowledges it isn't always that easy. You can't force another human to do anything even if it is pretty clear on paper that they need to do -- get a job, clean the house, whatever. There are also legitimate reasons a spouse may not work or may not pick up the domestic slack, physical limitations among them.

I hope the conversation with your partner goes as you hope it will, whatever the limitations are.
posted by DarlingBri at 2:50 PM on August 2 [4 favorites]


Seeing lots of good ideas. Throwing this out there, without shaming the non-working partner

If only one person is currently working, a second car _may_ not be necessary, if they are willing to commit to cleaning, cooking, and doing at home "pre-K". Pre-K isn't a requirement for a child to enter school, and often what they would learn in pre-K can be taught at home, by a parent. If you have other children in the neighborhood, you might scrap the expense of the second car by organizing play activities within the neighborhood.

Some years ago, ABC had a special news report where they looked at a family where both were working and found that they were losing money because of child care, extra cost for work clothes and transportation to/from work for the second worker, and some other costs; they showed that it was actually better for _one_ person to work and the other to be home. But that was a purely economic analysis - the emotional analysis of your situation matters to, and you'll have to work that out with your partner.
posted by TimHare at 9:43 PM on August 2


I'm here to recommend some podcast episodes that have helped me with my finances. I manage our household accounts and have a complicated history with money. Listening to people I like or can relate to talk about personal finance helps keep me motivated to stay on track.

I Make A Lot of Money But I Live Paycheck to Paycheck
How can I get out of doubt without sacrificing my social life?
What's the best way to get out of debt?

Listen As I Get Financially Planned

Overcome Your Psychological Bullsh*t Around Money
Practicing Financial Self-Care
How to Stop Emotional Spending

Money for Beginners
Better Approach to Budgeting - Everything Is An Investment
posted by spacebologna at 12:55 PM on August 3


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