Oldies but not ickies?
January 19, 2024 5:43 AM
I'm exploring older cinema and watching flicks that have defined their genres - like the first vampire movies, first zombie movies, first mystery movies, etc. Can you please recommend old movies that are genre classics or really well made but don't give me a misogyny/racism ick? I had planned to see some film noir or neo-noir classics, but I'm getting icked out just reading the synopses or looking at the posters. Many thanks!
We've been exploring old Christmas films this festive season - and really enjoyed both The Thin Man and The Bishop's Wife.
posted by london explorer girl at 6:40 AM on January 19
posted by london explorer girl at 6:40 AM on January 19
his girl friday
the director sam fuller liked and respected women
posted by brujita at 6:51 AM on January 19
the director sam fuller liked and respected women
posted by brujita at 6:51 AM on January 19
The Thin Man is delightful, but if you have a similar "ick" about alcohol, it may not be a good choice; the main characters drink a lot, and sometimes that's the source of some jokes. (They don't act drunk - it's more a joke about "wow, you really powered that scotch back and you're fine" kind of thing. But they drink a LOT.) It's still GREAT fun.
I have a classic-film blog, and I often mention whether there's any such misogyny/racism in my reviews - whether it's bothered me, or (at times) if it doesn't. That happens sometimes.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:52 AM on January 19
I have a classic-film blog, and I often mention whether there's any such misogyny/racism in my reviews - whether it's bothered me, or (at times) if it doesn't. That happens sometimes.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:52 AM on January 19
"Game of Death" (Bruce Lee, 1978) is controversial, it was however the film that started the "level battle ending in a boss fight" that pretty much all action films (and an argument could be made for video games) since have emulated afterwards.
posted by alchemist at 7:23 AM on January 19
posted by alchemist at 7:23 AM on January 19
No idea if it will give you the ick for any reason, but Metropolis (1927) is one of the first full length sci-fi films and by far and away the most influential and well-known.
There are lots of other classic sci-fi films but another standout would be the (1951 original) The Day The Earth Stood Still. It's probably the best known anti-war/humans are too violent/please lets not destroy ourselves with a nuclear war type of sci-fi film. The ick factor is low from what I recall (generic 1950s gender roles aside).
posted by underclocked at 7:27 AM on January 19
There are lots of other classic sci-fi films but another standout would be the (1951 original) The Day The Earth Stood Still. It's probably the best known anti-war/humans are too violent/please lets not destroy ourselves with a nuclear war type of sci-fi film. The ick factor is low from what I recall (generic 1950s gender roles aside).
posted by underclocked at 7:27 AM on January 19
Horror of Dracula (first Hammer Horror/modern Dracula) does have white people being paternalistic, but only to Eastern Europeans, and they die for it.
posted by praemunire at 7:49 AM on January 19
posted by praemunire at 7:49 AM on January 19
Metropolis might not have been the first science fiction movie, but it was definitely the first big budget science fiction movie.
posted by Multicellular Exothermic at 7:50 AM on January 19
posted by Multicellular Exothermic at 7:50 AM on January 19
His Girl Friday is a riot; I watched it for the first time recently with some pals and we were struck by how fast and relentless it is. Scenes that a modern movie would milk for longer, His Girl Friday blows right through.
posted by 4th number at 7:56 AM on January 19
posted by 4th number at 7:56 AM on January 19
The first found footage film was 1961's The Connection (JustWatch link for availability). The movie concerns a filmmaker named Jim Dunn who agrees to finance drugs for a group of addicts in exchange for permission to film them for his documentary. What begins as a sobering glimpse into the lives of drug addicts spirals into tragedy as Jim tries the drugs firsthand.
Orson Welles' F for Fake (JustWatch link) is the first film essay. It's not exactly a documentary, as much as a smart person using film to explore and expound upon an idea they find interesting. Welles began by shooting a documentary of the famous art forger Elmyr, but when of his chief sources, Clifford Irving, turned out to be a conman himself (he wrote the fake Howard Hughes biography), Welles went freeform and sort of riffed on fakery in a way that prefigures the video essay format that is common on YouTube today. Only better, because y'know: Orson Welles.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:00 AM on January 19
Orson Welles' F for Fake (JustWatch link) is the first film essay. It's not exactly a documentary, as much as a smart person using film to explore and expound upon an idea they find interesting. Welles began by shooting a documentary of the famous art forger Elmyr, but when of his chief sources, Clifford Irving, turned out to be a conman himself (he wrote the fake Howard Hughes biography), Welles went freeform and sort of riffed on fakery in a way that prefigures the video essay format that is common on YouTube today. Only better, because y'know: Orson Welles.
posted by DirtyOldTown at 8:00 AM on January 19
Seven Samurai: not only a great chambara, but the inspiration for many other films in other genres.
Master of the Flying Guillotine: a martial arts film that inspired many fighting video games.
posted by SPrintF at 8:03 AM on January 19
Master of the Flying Guillotine: a martial arts film that inspired many fighting video games.
posted by SPrintF at 8:03 AM on January 19
For British films, you might like Passport to Pimlico and Whisky Galore! (original) which pit ordinary people against the might of the state and are representative of the home front and Ealing Studios. In Whom We Serve is great wartime propaganda written, produced and directed by Noel Coward.
posted by plonkee at 10:44 AM on January 19
posted by plonkee at 10:44 AM on January 19
Many film classics are well-made, watchable, inescapable products of their time, so some of the recs above still have the ick factor: Casablanca (racism, sexism; the Renault character is a sexual predator), His Girl Friday (racism, sexism), Seven Samurai (sexism)...
Film Noir, Black Representation in Film Noir; On Being Black in Film Noir. Harry Belafonte produced and starred in 1959's Odds Against Tomorrow, which takes a premise common to noir — three diametrically opposed men, bound together by desperation despite simmering animosity, plan a heist that seals their doom — but twists it into a sharp sociological consideration about the perils of mid-century racism. No Way Out (1950): Aware that it would provoke controversy, 20th Century-Fox boss Darryl F. Zanuck sanctioned this “powerful propaganda against intolerance” and encouraged Mankiewicz to depict the African American characters “as human beings” enduring hatred in “a white man’s everyday world”. He also insisted on the race riot ending in a black victory. Unsurprisingly, the picture was cut by local northern censors and banned across the Deep South.
How Film Noir Tried to Scare Women out of Working ("In the period immediately following World War II, the femme fatale embodied a host of male anxieties about gender roles.") Feminist Noir, for certain values of feminist: Double Indemnity (1944) It’s a testament to Stanwyck’s skill as an actor, with her feminist-tinged understanding of the internal emotional lives of women. And like all the best noir, it is a warped mirror held up to the imagination of a white America that refuses to wake up from its dreams of itself. El Vampiro Negro (The Black Vampire) (1953), is the third version of Fritz Lang’s milestone M (1931). The most notable re-think of the scenario is that now the story features prominent roles for women, who are shown to be the conscience of society even as that society constrains, paralyzes, and punishes them. Its heroine will even succeed in doing what the police cannot.
Drama: All About Eve, in a way, is all about mansplaining [...] the fully realized women of All About Eve (1950!) and the vicious fights they have about misogyny are astonishing. 12 Angry Men (1957) The jury in a New York City murder trial is frustrated by a single member whose skeptical caution forces them to more carefully consider the evidence before jumping to a hasty verdict.[When one juror goes on a racist rant, other jurors literally turn their backs on him.]
Science Fiction, SciFi/Horror: Atom Age Feminists: The Women of 1950s Sci-Fi. The Day the Earth Stood Still (1951): For a film made in the early ’50s — the era when post WW2 women were told to return to their “feminine roles” — it’s pretty inclusive. From the beginning, we see PoCs as part of the world’s population — even as part of the American population. They may not always have lines, and they may not be a big part of the action, but they exist in the background. [...] A single mother (Patricia Neal) and her son teach the world about peace and tolerance in this moral fable, ousting the tanks and soldiers that greet the alien's arrival. Attack of the 50 Foot Woman (1958): When an abused socialite grows to giant size because of an alien encounter and an aborted murder attempt, she goes after her cheating husband with revenge on her mind. Alien (1979): As Ripley, Sigourney Weaver outlasts the beardy captain of the Nostromo, a murderous android and the nearly indestructible xenomorph, and she continues doing this through a trio of sequels. Ripley is no continuation of the woman scientist of the '50s, but the logical progression from her that other filmmakers failed to embrace. Ripley is as much the voice of reason as Dr. [Patricia] Medford in "Them!" [1954], and she is also the square-jawed hero.
posted by Iris Gambol at 12:09 PM on January 19
Film Noir, Black Representation in Film Noir; On Being Black in Film Noir. Harry Belafonte produced and starred in 1959's Odds Against Tomorrow, which takes a premise common to noir — three diametrically opposed men, bound together by desperation despite simmering animosity, plan a heist that seals their doom — but twists it into a sharp sociological consideration about the perils of mid-century racism. No Way Out (1950): Aware that it would provoke controversy, 20th Century-Fox boss Darryl F. Zanuck sanctioned this “powerful propaganda against intolerance” and encouraged Mankiewicz to depict the African American characters “as human beings” enduring hatred in “a white man’s everyday world”. He also insisted on the race riot ending in a black victory. Unsurprisingly, the picture was cut by local northern censors and banned across the Deep South.
How Film Noir Tried to Scare Women out of Working ("In the period immediately following World War II, the femme fatale embodied a host of male anxieties about gender roles.") Feminist Noir, for certain values of feminist: Double Indemnity (1944) It’s a testament to Stanwyck’s skill as an actor, with her feminist-tinged understanding of the internal emotional lives of women. And like all the best noir, it is a warped mirror held up to the imagination of a white America that refuses to wake up from its dreams of itself. El Vampiro Negro (The Black Vampire) (1953), is the third version of Fritz Lang’s milestone M (1931). The most notable re-think of the scenario is that now the story features prominent roles for women, who are shown to be the conscience of society even as that society constrains, paralyzes, and punishes them. Its heroine will even succeed in doing what the police cannot.
Drama: All About Eve, in a way, is all about mansplaining [...] the fully realized women of All About Eve (1950!) and the vicious fights they have about misogyny are astonishing. 12 Angry Men (1957) The jury in a New York City murder trial is frustrated by a single member whose skeptical caution forces them to more carefully consider the evidence before jumping to a hasty verdict.[When one juror goes on a racist rant, other jurors literally turn their backs on him.]
Science Fiction, SciFi/Horror: Atom Age Feminists: The Women of 1950s Sci-Fi. The Day the Earth Stood Still (1951): For a film made in the early ’50s — the era when post WW2 women were told to return to their “feminine roles” — it’s pretty inclusive. From the beginning, we see PoCs as part of the world’s population — even as part of the American population. They may not always have lines, and they may not be a big part of the action, but they exist in the background. [...] A single mother (Patricia Neal) and her son teach the world about peace and tolerance in this moral fable, ousting the tanks and soldiers that greet the alien's arrival. Attack of the 50 Foot Woman (1958): When an abused socialite grows to giant size because of an alien encounter and an aborted murder attempt, she goes after her cheating husband with revenge on her mind. Alien (1979): As Ripley, Sigourney Weaver outlasts the beardy captain of the Nostromo, a murderous android and the nearly indestructible xenomorph, and she continues doing this through a trio of sequels. Ripley is no continuation of the woman scientist of the '50s, but the logical progression from her that other filmmakers failed to embrace. Ripley is as much the voice of reason as Dr. [Patricia] Medford in "Them!" [1954], and she is also the square-jawed hero.
posted by Iris Gambol at 12:09 PM on January 19
Oh, M and Seventh Samurai would be great ideas.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:31 PM on January 19
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:31 PM on January 19
Not too long ago I watched Cat People (1942) and I expected it would have a dose of misogyny, but I don't think it did much? Sorry, I didn't take better notes about this. I was intrigued to watch it b/c one section of Kiss of the Spider Woman is based upon it.
posted by polecat at 2:37 PM on January 19
posted by polecat at 2:37 PM on January 19
The Nun's Story (1959) is a hidden gem. Though successful at the time, I don't see it mentioned often. Audrey Hepburn is very good in a drama that revolves not around romance or violence, but a woman's struggle to define her own values.
posted by dunhamrc at 2:42 PM on January 19
posted by dunhamrc at 2:42 PM on January 19
The original 1954 "Godzilla" (not the version recut for American audiences with Raymond Burr). It's legitimately great.
posted by riotnrrd at 5:02 PM on January 19
posted by riotnrrd at 5:02 PM on January 19
It’s hard to say what will be ick for another person, but The Philadelphia Story is another Hepburn/Grant classic that doesn’t get mentioned as much. So is Bringing Up Baby.
Hepburn often played strong, independent women, so consider just making your way through her films.
And this might end up being ick for you, but I just watched The Misfits and it really shows that Marilyn Monroe was a terrific actress and not just a sex symbol. Her character definitely gets treated in a shitty way because she looks and talks like well Marilyn Monroe, but she also gives them hell about it. Written by her then-husband Arthur Miller. If you just can’t tolerate depictions of misogyny, it’s not for you, but if you’d be interested in something that presents and engages with misogyny it might work.
posted by FencingGal at 7:16 PM on January 19
Hepburn often played strong, independent women, so consider just making your way through her films.
And this might end up being ick for you, but I just watched The Misfits and it really shows that Marilyn Monroe was a terrific actress and not just a sex symbol. Her character definitely gets treated in a shitty way because she looks and talks like well Marilyn Monroe, but she also gives them hell about it. Written by her then-husband Arthur Miller. If you just can’t tolerate depictions of misogyny, it’s not for you, but if you’d be interested in something that presents and engages with misogyny it might work.
posted by FencingGal at 7:16 PM on January 19
I love the Philadelphia Story. It's one of those movies that I've watched countless times since I was a young kid. It's not a definite ick-factor exactly, but there have been times where the goddess on a pedestal bit has really rubbed me the wrong way. And then there are other times where it barely registers. I think it all depends on what's going on in my life as to how those parts hit me. But yes, I support the movie as one worth watching.
His Girl Friday, is a movie of its time--and some of the attitude of some of the characters reflect that with regards to people's race, sex and class (and even attitudes towards the death penalty), but the good parts of the movie significantly outweigh the troublesome ones (which aren't strikingly egregious), by a wide, wide margin. Also, I know everybody says the movie is fast, but somehow I never really noticed/was bothered by that, but then again, I came to this movie as a young kid and have rewatched it more time than I could estimate.
posted by sardonyx at 2:29 PM on January 20
His Girl Friday, is a movie of its time--and some of the attitude of some of the characters reflect that with regards to people's race, sex and class (and even attitudes towards the death penalty), but the good parts of the movie significantly outweigh the troublesome ones (which aren't strikingly egregious), by a wide, wide margin. Also, I know everybody says the movie is fast, but somehow I never really noticed/was bothered by that, but then again, I came to this movie as a young kid and have rewatched it more time than I could estimate.
posted by sardonyx at 2:29 PM on January 20
I enjoyed the original b/w Invasion Of The Body Snatchers and second the Cat People recommendation. Curse of the Cat People (1944) is great also.
posted by hoodrich at 10:13 AM on January 21
posted by hoodrich at 10:13 AM on January 21
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posted by The corpse in the library at 6:27 AM on January 19