I know no one is looking at me, but…
November 30, 2023 3:56 PM Subscribe
How can I get over myself and enjoy my time without worrying about my appearance mismatch?
I am lucky enough to frequently get to go to nice restaurants, hotels, and events with my partner. I am a woman who doesn’t wear makeup, wears size 16-18 (US), and generally dresses for comfort rather than style. I try to spiff up for events by ensuring my hair is brush, teeth are clean, body and hair are clean. Because I’m a homemaker, a lot of the time I am dirty, sweaty, and unkempt from cleaning and childcare duties, so yes, brushing my hair is spiffing up. Last night we went out to dinner at a nice restaurant and I noticed so many women dressed to the nines and looking fabulous. I went home and search for new clothes and go as far as placing the order, before I remembered: it goes against my values to buy new things when I have perfectly good things and also I likely would not take good care of these new clothes. I canceled the order. We have a stay at a really nice hotel coming up and I’d like to spend it enjoying myself rather than comparing myself to others. I’m looking for your tips on how to enjoy your own values, vibes, and appearance when you don’t fit the mold and are not going to try to.
I am lucky enough to frequently get to go to nice restaurants, hotels, and events with my partner. I am a woman who doesn’t wear makeup, wears size 16-18 (US), and generally dresses for comfort rather than style. I try to spiff up for events by ensuring my hair is brush, teeth are clean, body and hair are clean. Because I’m a homemaker, a lot of the time I am dirty, sweaty, and unkempt from cleaning and childcare duties, so yes, brushing my hair is spiffing up. Last night we went out to dinner at a nice restaurant and I noticed so many women dressed to the nines and looking fabulous. I went home and search for new clothes and go as far as placing the order, before I remembered: it goes against my values to buy new things when I have perfectly good things and also I likely would not take good care of these new clothes. I canceled the order. We have a stay at a really nice hotel coming up and I’d like to spend it enjoying myself rather than comparing myself to others. I’m looking for your tips on how to enjoy your own values, vibes, and appearance when you don’t fit the mold and are not going to try to.
Just take 1000mg of Fukitol before you go and you'll be fine.
Seriously, you don't actually want to be those other women, do you? I mean, you could probably do a good imitation if you cared but you said very clearly that it is not actually the person you wish you could be. So, notice the absurdity of feeling bad that you don't measure up to people that you don't have something that you don't want and then just let go of the urge to compare - it makes no sense.
And if brain insists on worrying about something that makes no sense, then let it worry but don't take it seriously or give it any energy. It's just your monkey brain deciding to worry about something irrelevant because brains like to worry not because there is an actual problem here.
posted by metahawk at 4:13 PM on November 30, 2023 [5 favorites]
Seriously, you don't actually want to be those other women, do you? I mean, you could probably do a good imitation if you cared but you said very clearly that it is not actually the person you wish you could be. So, notice the absurdity of feeling bad that you don't measure up to people that you don't have something that you don't want and then just let go of the urge to compare - it makes no sense.
And if brain insists on worrying about something that makes no sense, then let it worry but don't take it seriously or give it any energy. It's just your monkey brain deciding to worry about something irrelevant because brains like to worry not because there is an actual problem here.
posted by metahawk at 4:13 PM on November 30, 2023 [5 favorites]
For others, it's just drudgery, possibly with a side of trauma.
It me.
I hate "dressing up" it is NOT me, it makes me feel weird and bad and gross and ugh ugh just makes me so uncomfortable.
But I love being as me as I can be. I love my hair (cut my bangs and dyed it myself!) which is unfancy but makes me happy. I love my baggy jeans which have come back in style somehow which means I can buy them inexpensively anywhere. I love my big clunky unisex shoes. I love my skin, which doesn't wear any makeup but is well cared for.
Basically, the things that I like and that make me feel most ME are not things that other people are likely to read as the trappings or habits of a very fancy put together person. But they make me feel good, and I feel cute when I feel good, and that's good enough for me.
Love when others get spiffy. That's super. Nice for them. Not something I'm interested in. I'm sure that I spend a lot of money and time investing in things that aren't interesting to other people, too. It's all fine.
If you are happy, embrace those things that make you happy and be the most you that you can be.
If you aren't happy, you are allowed to do things differently. You don't have to be one way forever.
posted by phunniemee at 4:23 PM on November 30, 2023 [10 favorites]
It me.
I hate "dressing up" it is NOT me, it makes me feel weird and bad and gross and ugh ugh just makes me so uncomfortable.
But I love being as me as I can be. I love my hair (cut my bangs and dyed it myself!) which is unfancy but makes me happy. I love my baggy jeans which have come back in style somehow which means I can buy them inexpensively anywhere. I love my big clunky unisex shoes. I love my skin, which doesn't wear any makeup but is well cared for.
Basically, the things that I like and that make me feel most ME are not things that other people are likely to read as the trappings or habits of a very fancy put together person. But they make me feel good, and I feel cute when I feel good, and that's good enough for me.
Love when others get spiffy. That's super. Nice for them. Not something I'm interested in. I'm sure that I spend a lot of money and time investing in things that aren't interesting to other people, too. It's all fine.
If you are happy, embrace those things that make you happy and be the most you that you can be.
If you aren't happy, you are allowed to do things differently. You don't have to be one way forever.
posted by phunniemee at 4:23 PM on November 30, 2023 [10 favorites]
I buy my clothing and my kids' clothing on ThredUp. (An online consignment shop) It makes me feel like I can try things out-- even things I won't wear frequently or that feel a bit outside my comfort zone-- and be playful without spending an amount of money that makes me feel uncomfortable and takes the fun 'experimenting' feeling away.
posted by jeszac at 4:24 PM on November 30, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by jeszac at 4:24 PM on November 30, 2023 [3 favorites]
Eh...if you don't wanna, don't dress up. Though I note I find a lot of cool things for cheap at thrift stores, so if you occasionally feel the need to be fancy, you can do it without paying much.
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:24 PM on November 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by jenfullmoon at 4:24 PM on November 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Hoping this doesn’t derail: my partner is asexual romantic and so experiences romantic love for me but is indifferent about physical attraction. I do not feel a lack/emptiness/dissatisfaction about this.
posted by CMcG at 4:24 PM on November 30, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by CMcG at 4:24 PM on November 30, 2023 [4 favorites]
I am pragmatic about this stuff. I experimented with different levels of clothes/fashion to see if the effort involved brought me more enjoyment - did full make-up for a couple of weeks, tried just red lipstick for a month, time doing hair, wearing fancy outfit, atheleisure etc etc. I tried each big change for about a month to see what was worth the effort for the return.
Sometimes socially it is - I have socially preferred outfits for when I know I need positive judgement from other people like senior management, new doctors. Is anyone at this hotel going to have power over outcomes for you? Unlikely.
So wear what’s comfortable and cheerful for you. If make up is a pain, don’t. If it’s fun, do.
I think this is something to a degree innate to us each. Some people really enjoy fashion and make-up. Separating that from social pressure to participate is not easy, but you’re definitely on my side of the fashion spectrum. I don’t think you can push it much either way - some people would style a tea towel if that’s all they had.
One way I have dealt with fashion anxiety is to actively compliment people doing fashion. Say wow that haircut’s amazing, I love your eyeliner, those shoes are gorgeous! Appreciating it aesthetically as a choice people make and being interested in the field is like oh here is this fascinating artistic hobby people have, wow people are creative.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 4:26 PM on November 30, 2023 [13 favorites]
Sometimes socially it is - I have socially preferred outfits for when I know I need positive judgement from other people like senior management, new doctors. Is anyone at this hotel going to have power over outcomes for you? Unlikely.
So wear what’s comfortable and cheerful for you. If make up is a pain, don’t. If it’s fun, do.
I think this is something to a degree innate to us each. Some people really enjoy fashion and make-up. Separating that from social pressure to participate is not easy, but you’re definitely on my side of the fashion spectrum. I don’t think you can push it much either way - some people would style a tea towel if that’s all they had.
One way I have dealt with fashion anxiety is to actively compliment people doing fashion. Say wow that haircut’s amazing, I love your eyeliner, those shoes are gorgeous! Appreciating it aesthetically as a choice people make and being interested in the field is like oh here is this fascinating artistic hobby people have, wow people are creative.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 4:26 PM on November 30, 2023 [13 favorites]
before I remembered: it goes against my values to buy new things when I have perfectly good things and also I likely would not take good care of these new clothes
It sounds like you have some conflicting feelings about your values that need to be examined/sorted out before you can act on them.
posted by not just everyday big moggies at 4:27 PM on November 30, 2023 [17 favorites]
It sounds like you have some conflicting feelings about your values that need to be examined/sorted out before you can act on them.
posted by not just everyday big moggies at 4:27 PM on November 30, 2023 [17 favorites]
It sounds like you want to dress up for the upcoming event. Do it!
Money - You can dress up affordably, especially if you go to a thrift shop.
Benefits - Better grooming and clothing is good for you and your kids - teachers will think better of your family, for instance. Doctors note your grooming in your file and definitely treat well-dressed patients with more respect.
As a general rule, people treat you better when your grooming is better. This superficial system sucks, but you don't change it by looking messy, you just get penalized by it. I went out today looking more schlubby than usual and I could feel the difference in how I was treated, for instance, by bank tellers. To me it's worth an extra 10 minutes a day of effort to be able to be more effective in how I navigate the world.
Your reasons don't sound like true values you hold, they sound like self-neglect due to low self-esteem and depression. Your mood shifts through ACTION so don't wait for your mood to change before you change your clothing - take some action first, and try dressing a bit differently and see how your mood feels.
> I likely would not take good care of these new clothes
If you want to take care of your new clothes, just do it. Avoid clothing that needs dry cleanings. Just wash things appropriately after use, hang them to dry, and keep them hung up.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 4:32 PM on November 30, 2023 [9 favorites]
Money - You can dress up affordably, especially if you go to a thrift shop.
Benefits - Better grooming and clothing is good for you and your kids - teachers will think better of your family, for instance. Doctors note your grooming in your file and definitely treat well-dressed patients with more respect.
As a general rule, people treat you better when your grooming is better. This superficial system sucks, but you don't change it by looking messy, you just get penalized by it. I went out today looking more schlubby than usual and I could feel the difference in how I was treated, for instance, by bank tellers. To me it's worth an extra 10 minutes a day of effort to be able to be more effective in how I navigate the world.
Your reasons don't sound like true values you hold, they sound like self-neglect due to low self-esteem and depression. Your mood shifts through ACTION so don't wait for your mood to change before you change your clothing - take some action first, and try dressing a bit differently and see how your mood feels.
> I likely would not take good care of these new clothes
If you want to take care of your new clothes, just do it. Avoid clothing that needs dry cleanings. Just wash things appropriately after use, hang them to dry, and keep them hung up.
posted by nouvelle-personne at 4:32 PM on November 30, 2023 [9 favorites]
The simple but also complicated answer is move to Seattle or Portland where formalwear is a Gore-Tex jacket, flannel shirt, jeans, and Birkenstocks.
From your posting history, it sounds like you live in a place where the vibe is just overall more formal, and there are spaces in that world where there are certain societal expectations of dress and behavior. You can choose to conform to those expectations, or not, but if not, you may experience the feelings you did - of being out of place or not fitting in. If that's the road you choose, the best advice I can give is, you just need to say fuck it and work on not caring. I promise you that the vast majority of people there don't care about how you're dressed, and the opinions of the ones that do care aren't opinions that you should be thinking about. And, your money is every bit as green as theirs.
That said, there's also a middle ground between being unstylish and unkempt and being a 24-7 fashionista. People wear nice things because it makes them feel good and powerful when they do, and that's ok. In reality, most of those people at the restaurant are probably wearing stained sweats at home, but they dress in a way that makes them feel good when they go to a space that welcomes that. Doing that doesn't require a whole new wardrobe - just a small set of things that make you feel strong and powerful and good and fit into the environment you're entering when you go to a nice restaurant or hotel.
I think you should re-evaluate whether doing that for yourself is something that is worthwhile, and something that would help you feel more powerful and good when in those environments. If it is, as long as you can afford them, there's nothing wrong with having some nice things you pull out for special occasions that will help those occasions feel even more special. And if you think about it and say "hey, this just isn't me", that's ok too.
posted by Special Agent Dale Cooper at 4:44 PM on November 30, 2023 [7 favorites]
From your posting history, it sounds like you live in a place where the vibe is just overall more formal, and there are spaces in that world where there are certain societal expectations of dress and behavior. You can choose to conform to those expectations, or not, but if not, you may experience the feelings you did - of being out of place or not fitting in. If that's the road you choose, the best advice I can give is, you just need to say fuck it and work on not caring. I promise you that the vast majority of people there don't care about how you're dressed, and the opinions of the ones that do care aren't opinions that you should be thinking about. And, your money is every bit as green as theirs.
That said, there's also a middle ground between being unstylish and unkempt and being a 24-7 fashionista. People wear nice things because it makes them feel good and powerful when they do, and that's ok. In reality, most of those people at the restaurant are probably wearing stained sweats at home, but they dress in a way that makes them feel good when they go to a space that welcomes that. Doing that doesn't require a whole new wardrobe - just a small set of things that make you feel strong and powerful and good and fit into the environment you're entering when you go to a nice restaurant or hotel.
I think you should re-evaluate whether doing that for yourself is something that is worthwhile, and something that would help you feel more powerful and good when in those environments. If it is, as long as you can afford them, there's nothing wrong with having some nice things you pull out for special occasions that will help those occasions feel even more special. And if you think about it and say "hey, this just isn't me", that's ok too.
posted by Special Agent Dale Cooper at 4:44 PM on November 30, 2023 [7 favorites]
My impression, backed up by not that much direct observation none of which is recent, is that there is a subclass of well to do people who are very much like you when it comes to perfecting their own appearance before they can go out and enjoy themselves.
Acting like you belong without even having to think about it would probably help convey the idea that you do belong to that subclass to staff and other patrons.
posted by jamjam at 4:46 PM on November 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
Acting like you belong without even having to think about it would probably help convey the idea that you do belong to that subclass to staff and other patrons.
posted by jamjam at 4:46 PM on November 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
A sideways take on this, because I think your update is a key: Are you sure this is about clothes? Are you going to these places, even though you don't enjoy them, because they're how your partner wants to express affection? I call these kinds of places where I have to worry about my clothes "fancypants" and I just don't enjoy going to them. I'd rather we go to the familiar pizza place at a weird hour where we're the only ones there, or to the spaghetti place with the salad bar where I can have whatever pile of salad I want.
Just because your partner has limited ways they like to express affection doesn't mean those are exactly right for you. You seem torn about what you actually want to do. Maybe reflect on that, and then talk about it together?
posted by fritley at 4:46 PM on November 30, 2023 [5 favorites]
Just because your partner has limited ways they like to express affection doesn't mean those are exactly right for you. You seem torn about what you actually want to do. Maybe reflect on that, and then talk about it together?
posted by fritley at 4:46 PM on November 30, 2023 [5 favorites]
If you want to dress up, do it - maybe in an ethical way by purchasing an outfit from a thrift store, or borrowing something from a friend.
If you don't want to dress up - remember that the #1 thing that will make you fit in and/or stand out, is your behavior while you're at the fancy place. Be kind to your server, eat politely, keep your convo at a reasonable volume - I'm sure you're already doing all that, so you're good. Better to be dressed neatly but casually than to be a fancy-dressed loudmouth, rude boor.
You could also have some special items of your own that you wear at special events -- I'm not much of a dresser-upper but I have my "fancy" earrings, a necklace I don't wear for everyday stuff, a pretty scarf, etc. When I put those things on, I feel dressed up!
posted by BlahLaLa at 4:53 PM on November 30, 2023 [6 favorites]
If you don't want to dress up - remember that the #1 thing that will make you fit in and/or stand out, is your behavior while you're at the fancy place. Be kind to your server, eat politely, keep your convo at a reasonable volume - I'm sure you're already doing all that, so you're good. Better to be dressed neatly but casually than to be a fancy-dressed loudmouth, rude boor.
You could also have some special items of your own that you wear at special events -- I'm not much of a dresser-upper but I have my "fancy" earrings, a necklace I don't wear for everyday stuff, a pretty scarf, etc. When I put those things on, I feel dressed up!
posted by BlahLaLa at 4:53 PM on November 30, 2023 [6 favorites]
I also embrace a very casual, comfortable appearance. When I feel that I don't fit in to a situation, I just remind myself that if I was one of the "dressed up people", I wouldn't look down upon or think negatively towards a person with a less formal appearance. Heck, I'd probably be a little jealous that they're so confident in themselves that they don't feel the need to dress to anyone else's standards.
posted by mezzanayne at 5:04 PM on November 30, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by mezzanayne at 5:04 PM on November 30, 2023 [2 favorites]
Do you have a really nice / expensive piece of jewelry?
You can wear that and then just tell yourself that you’re so rich you can have rich girl hair. Like you’re secretly so wealthy you don’t need to impress anyone. Generational wealth rich.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 5:17 PM on November 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
You can wear that and then just tell yourself that you’re so rich you can have rich girl hair. Like you’re secretly so wealthy you don’t need to impress anyone. Generational wealth rich.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 5:17 PM on November 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
Do you have clothes you feel good in? Not just comfortable or fit for purpose, but clothes you like wearing? How "perfectly good" are the items in your closet? When did you last refresh your wardrobe? When you say you're prioritizing comfort, are we talking about a collection of good quality athleisure pieces or stretched-out leggings and stained tee shirts? I know there's a time and place for the really grubby stuff (home improvement projects, giving the dog a bath), but it's worth considering if you have items that are suitable for housework and childcare that you feel good in. This question makes me think you might not let yourself get nice, high-quality casual clothes because it's so easy to make do with grubby old things.
There are a couple of fashion factors that I think work in your favor: lots of nice loungewear options and more voluminous silhouettes than in past eras. If you want to, you can add pieces to your wardrobe that are comfortable and functional while still looking more pulled together. Things you can wear around the house but also dress up a bit. I've recently begun updating my wardrobe slowly with comfortable, sustainably made clothes. The Universal Standard garcon tee is my go-to shirt (and it's currently on sale)--I know it might seem weird to be excited about a basic and kind of pricy tee shirt, but it looks way nicer than a random tee shirt while being just as comfortable. I really like Eileen Fisher pants, so I watch for sales there. Someday the stars will align and I'll be able to get a sweater in my size from Tradlands on sale. If you don't want these types of items, that's perfectly fine. But if you've been dismissing your desire for nice things as impractical because "who's going to see me?" it's worth remembering you're going to see yourself and experimenting with some clothes you like to see yourself in.
posted by theotherdurassister at 5:36 PM on November 30, 2023 [16 favorites]
There are a couple of fashion factors that I think work in your favor: lots of nice loungewear options and more voluminous silhouettes than in past eras. If you want to, you can add pieces to your wardrobe that are comfortable and functional while still looking more pulled together. Things you can wear around the house but also dress up a bit. I've recently begun updating my wardrobe slowly with comfortable, sustainably made clothes. The Universal Standard garcon tee is my go-to shirt (and it's currently on sale)--I know it might seem weird to be excited about a basic and kind of pricy tee shirt, but it looks way nicer than a random tee shirt while being just as comfortable. I really like Eileen Fisher pants, so I watch for sales there. Someday the stars will align and I'll be able to get a sweater in my size from Tradlands on sale. If you don't want these types of items, that's perfectly fine. But if you've been dismissing your desire for nice things as impractical because "who's going to see me?" it's worth remembering you're going to see yourself and experimenting with some clothes you like to see yourself in.
posted by theotherdurassister at 5:36 PM on November 30, 2023 [16 favorites]
Do you like the clothes and accessories you have? Regardless of whether they "fit in" do you feel comfortable, attractive, fun or whatever your goal is? A really helpful first step to developing a solid case of "don't care" with respect to how your appearance does or doesn't fit in is wearing things you enjoy, whatever the reason is.
I personally want to think about my clothes as little as possible and pretty much wear a range of stuff in knits that I could quite happily sleep in, but I enjoy bold shoes and accessories. They're just fun on their own, and can do a lot to shift an outfit from "I threw this on" to "I dressed up." My sense of style is definitely idiosyncratic, but I enjoy what I wear, and that makes me feel good, and feeling good makes it easy to care very little about whether or not my look fits in.
posted by EvaDestruction at 5:56 PM on November 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
I personally want to think about my clothes as little as possible and pretty much wear a range of stuff in knits that I could quite happily sleep in, but I enjoy bold shoes and accessories. They're just fun on their own, and can do a lot to shift an outfit from "I threw this on" to "I dressed up." My sense of style is definitely idiosyncratic, but I enjoy what I wear, and that makes me feel good, and feeling good makes it easy to care very little about whether or not my look fits in.
posted by EvaDestruction at 5:56 PM on November 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
I’m going to take a slightly different tack here and not really answer your question. To me it sounds like you have perfectly good clothes for your normal life but these clothes are not meeting the requirements for fancy going-out occasions. The way I’m thinking about it is that if you were to go to a wedding, you wouldn’t show up in old-but-clean jeans and t-shirt and if you did it’d be odd for you to say that it went against your values to not buy fancy clothes. One important goal for clothes is to make you comfortable in social situations, and if you are miserable while out because you think your clothes don’t look right, then the clothes are inadequate to the task and you should change them.
Your values are admirable until they are used to keep you self-conscious, dressed in inadequate clothing and trying to justify yourself. I’m not saying this is definitely happening but I’m getting a whiff of it. I’m also not saying give in to peer pressure and try to blend in with others if you don’t want to, but if you feel uncomfortable like you are standing out, why not level up on one or two confidence-boosting outfits? If you are happy with what you are wearing you will feel nice, and your partner loves you and wants you to feel good, right?
There are online and IRL places to shop where nice (well, at least cute) clothes don’t cost much, if cost is an issue.
posted by Vatnesine at 6:03 PM on November 30, 2023 [35 favorites]
Your values are admirable until they are used to keep you self-conscious, dressed in inadequate clothing and trying to justify yourself. I’m not saying this is definitely happening but I’m getting a whiff of it. I’m also not saying give in to peer pressure and try to blend in with others if you don’t want to, but if you feel uncomfortable like you are standing out, why not level up on one or two confidence-boosting outfits? If you are happy with what you are wearing you will feel nice, and your partner loves you and wants you to feel good, right?
There are online and IRL places to shop where nice (well, at least cute) clothes don’t cost much, if cost is an issue.
posted by Vatnesine at 6:03 PM on November 30, 2023 [35 favorites]
If you genuinely don't want those things, there is great advice above about either adjusting your thinking or your events to fit. If you might want those things but are just worried about the cost and work of maintaining them, then consider buying some a simple black item or two in a material you find comfortable.
Black doesn't show stains and reads relatively dressy even for the material. It can be easily dressed up with simple jewelry or a scarf, and maybe a colorful (and comfortable) pair of flats. Eventually, you might have to worry about fading, but you can wash on cold to keep the color longer.
There are options out there that would be less than the cost of a medium-nice meal. If you feel more comfortable, enough to really enjoy your frequent outings without thinking about your clothes, it seems like it could be an investment in alignment with your values of not wasting an investment.
posted by past unusual at 6:16 PM on November 30, 2023 [2 favorites]
Black doesn't show stains and reads relatively dressy even for the material. It can be easily dressed up with simple jewelry or a scarf, and maybe a colorful (and comfortable) pair of flats. Eventually, you might have to worry about fading, but you can wash on cold to keep the color longer.
There are options out there that would be less than the cost of a medium-nice meal. If you feel more comfortable, enough to really enjoy your frequent outings without thinking about your clothes, it seems like it could be an investment in alignment with your values of not wasting an investment.
posted by past unusual at 6:16 PM on November 30, 2023 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I find it helpful to look at the [people I perceive as] men instead and get righteously angry about the sexism of it all. A lot of them are doing nothing more than cleaning up and putting on their "going out" uniforms, and it is enough.
posted by teremala at 6:37 PM on November 30, 2023 [22 favorites]
posted by teremala at 6:37 PM on November 30, 2023 [22 favorites]
If you don't have any clothes dressier than things you wear around the house to do chores and take care of kids, you have a void in your wardrobe that is rather unusual, and it seems that your values would allow for buying clothes for occasions where you don't currently have something perfectly good to wear. I mean, having sweatpants doesn't mean you don't buy a bathing suit, so why should it mean you don't have a nice pair of pants that you wear to fancy restaurants? There are plenty of nice clothes that are comfortable, you should buy some. This isn't about making your partner think you are sexy, or even really about impressing other people who are out, but about elevating the experience beyond the day-to-day by having a special outfit or two for these occasions.
posted by ch1x0r at 6:54 PM on November 30, 2023 [13 favorites]
posted by ch1x0r at 6:54 PM on November 30, 2023 [13 favorites]
I feel the same - I can afford much better but stick with what I have and I don't wear make up or invest in new clothes. I have the added dimension of my kid attending a high tuition private school. But I still show up at pick up or drop off in out of date comfy clothes. I'm pretty sure I've been mistaken for the nanny many times.
Some thoughts: There are different tiers of wealth and fashion. For really high net worth people who are not flashy rich (think generational wealth), many do not dress up and use quiet luxury. No matter how much you dress up, you can't really blend in with that unless you have that type of money. There are some in that tier who choose not to dress up at all or use quiet luxury. This is to offer some perspective. If you have the fashion sense, you can still be quietly fashionable within a reasonable budget but it requires a good eye and consistent yearly updating which requires time. For some people, this might be worthwhile. If you do not have a good fashion eye, I recommend hiring a stylist to help you craft your look. It might help you feel better and give you a blueprint on how to update your look from year to year.
If this is not what you want to do and stick with the clothes you have, then this is what I do. It will be difficult to not to be hurt by your impressions of other people and to stop the comparisons. What you can change, is your mindset. I view relationships with people as a long-term affair. If they treat you poorly based on your appearance, you have a valuable data point about that person. I don't react to the data point but observe each person within the context of that data point. I find as people get to know you, some people change when they find out how much or how little money you have. Then you have another data point. Some people are truly sorry about how they judged you and perceived you and others are not. It is also surprising who judges and who does not. I find it fascinating. Regardless of how I am treated, I try to treat others with courtesy and kindness and I find that gets me far in the long run.
For the service industry places like hotels and restaurants, I like to go to the same high-end places on a regular basis so they get to know me as a person and I get to know them as people. They know I can afford these things and I will come back. They treat me better and I don't feel like I am any lesser a customer for the way I look. I also recommend places with a high bar of entry where you are a known equation. If you stay at hotels or eat at restaurants who don't know you, and just want to change your mindset - I would just do you. You don't know other people's stories and whether they are rich or poor or had a bad day. You are enjoying yourself and that is what counts. I enjoy tipping well - beyond what people expect of my appearance.
posted by ichimunki at 7:04 PM on November 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
Some thoughts: There are different tiers of wealth and fashion. For really high net worth people who are not flashy rich (think generational wealth), many do not dress up and use quiet luxury. No matter how much you dress up, you can't really blend in with that unless you have that type of money. There are some in that tier who choose not to dress up at all or use quiet luxury. This is to offer some perspective. If you have the fashion sense, you can still be quietly fashionable within a reasonable budget but it requires a good eye and consistent yearly updating which requires time. For some people, this might be worthwhile. If you do not have a good fashion eye, I recommend hiring a stylist to help you craft your look. It might help you feel better and give you a blueprint on how to update your look from year to year.
If this is not what you want to do and stick with the clothes you have, then this is what I do. It will be difficult to not to be hurt by your impressions of other people and to stop the comparisons. What you can change, is your mindset. I view relationships with people as a long-term affair. If they treat you poorly based on your appearance, you have a valuable data point about that person. I don't react to the data point but observe each person within the context of that data point. I find as people get to know you, some people change when they find out how much or how little money you have. Then you have another data point. Some people are truly sorry about how they judged you and perceived you and others are not. It is also surprising who judges and who does not. I find it fascinating. Regardless of how I am treated, I try to treat others with courtesy and kindness and I find that gets me far in the long run.
For the service industry places like hotels and restaurants, I like to go to the same high-end places on a regular basis so they get to know me as a person and I get to know them as people. They know I can afford these things and I will come back. They treat me better and I don't feel like I am any lesser a customer for the way I look. I also recommend places with a high bar of entry where you are a known equation. If you stay at hotels or eat at restaurants who don't know you, and just want to change your mindset - I would just do you. You don't know other people's stories and whether they are rich or poor or had a bad day. You are enjoying yourself and that is what counts. I enjoy tipping well - beyond what people expect of my appearance.
posted by ichimunki at 7:04 PM on November 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I'm a cis woman and I have accepted -- and like! -- that I don't do mainstream gender rules in some ways. I never wear makeup, I have short hair, I never wear heels. If I had to "dress up" in a conventional way I would feel like I was in drag, miserably. I wonder if you'd be happier if you didn't try to dress up in a traditionally female way?
posted by The corpse in the library at 7:54 PM on November 30, 2023 [14 favorites]
posted by The corpse in the library at 7:54 PM on November 30, 2023 [14 favorites]
The way you wrote your question suggests you like that you get to go to places and events where people dress up, that you enjoy it, but you feel like you're not dressing appropriately and don't like how that makes you feel. So you can either change the way you dress or change the way you feel. Changing the way you feel is hard and it's possible this would lessen your enjoyment in something far removed from your everyday life as a homemaker. Changing the way you look can be, but doesn't need to be expensive or uncomfortable.
Second-hand clothing is super cheap, albeit harder to find things that fit well and you can buy plenty of lovely jewelry that looks good but doesn't cost much. It's not as if you're expected to dress up every day to go to an office, so a small selection of nice outfits doesn't have to break the bank. You may find that you enjoy the outings even more when you're dressed up and feeling special.
Whatever you do, though, do it for yourself. Don't dress up to impress others (doesn't sound like you would), but there's nothing wrong with dressing up because it makes you feel good. If you're maybe feeling like you're not worth spending money on 'luxury' items, just don't. You deserve to feel good in whatever situation you're in. A few nice frocks can't hurt. I do get that you are probably short on time, but spending time on yourself may also make you feel better.
posted by dg at 8:51 PM on November 30, 2023 [3 favorites]
Second-hand clothing is super cheap, albeit harder to find things that fit well and you can buy plenty of lovely jewelry that looks good but doesn't cost much. It's not as if you're expected to dress up every day to go to an office, so a small selection of nice outfits doesn't have to break the bank. You may find that you enjoy the outings even more when you're dressed up and feeling special.
Whatever you do, though, do it for yourself. Don't dress up to impress others (doesn't sound like you would), but there's nothing wrong with dressing up because it makes you feel good. If you're maybe feeling like you're not worth spending money on 'luxury' items, just don't. You deserve to feel good in whatever situation you're in. A few nice frocks can't hurt. I do get that you are probably short on time, but spending time on yourself may also make you feel better.
posted by dg at 8:51 PM on November 30, 2023 [3 favorites]
In Paris I have worn cords/ chinos with knit tops into coat-required-for-men, 3 star michelin places and have been treated graciously.
posted by brujita at 10:18 PM on November 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by brujita at 10:18 PM on November 30, 2023 [1 favorite]
Agree with the suggestion above to maybe consider whether you enjoy going to these fancy places and whether you might feel more comfortable going somewhere where the food/atmosphere is just as good but people don’t care how you dress? Also, they make simple, good quality clothes for rich people - seems to me like a lot of the time this is what rich people wear to signal being rich, clean lines, good tailoring, but still essentially a pair of expensive elasticated waist pants or whatever - so if you really want to fit in with a bunch of people trying hard to express status and still be comfortable and true to your style you could try that route. I’d vote for trying to find somewhere more casual for date night though.
posted by chives at 2:02 AM on December 1, 2023
posted by chives at 2:02 AM on December 1, 2023
If you're just looking to change the way you feel about your current choice to not dress up, you could try thinking of yourself as charmingly eccentric, which is a more positive spin on not fitting in.
I also am someone who prioritizes comfort over style. As an ND person I have a lot of sensory issues and I am happiest in clothes that are soft, elastic, not too structured and most importantly, do not itch and are not too hot. This is rather limiting, to say the least. I also hate socks and my feet are terrible so my shoe choices are very limited (to one certain style of Crocs that are no longer made, naturally.)
We went out to a nice restaurant with family over Thanksgiving, and I wore the same black yoga pants I wear everywhere, a loose velvet t-shirt and my Crocs. Brushed hair, minimal makeup and a nice necklace that made me feel fancier. No one said boo and I felt perfectly comfortable.
For anything fancier like a wedding, I'd look for a long skirt or dress so I didn't need tights or hose, again with the jewelry, probably wind up wearing the Crocs.
Incidentally, the people we were with at Thanksgiving have money and I noticed that the wife basically looked about like I did, but with better shoes.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 3:13 AM on December 1, 2023 [3 favorites]
I also am someone who prioritizes comfort over style. As an ND person I have a lot of sensory issues and I am happiest in clothes that are soft, elastic, not too structured and most importantly, do not itch and are not too hot. This is rather limiting, to say the least. I also hate socks and my feet are terrible so my shoe choices are very limited (to one certain style of Crocs that are no longer made, naturally.)
We went out to a nice restaurant with family over Thanksgiving, and I wore the same black yoga pants I wear everywhere, a loose velvet t-shirt and my Crocs. Brushed hair, minimal makeup and a nice necklace that made me feel fancier. No one said boo and I felt perfectly comfortable.
For anything fancier like a wedding, I'd look for a long skirt or dress so I didn't need tights or hose, again with the jewelry, probably wind up wearing the Crocs.
Incidentally, the people we were with at Thanksgiving have money and I noticed that the wife basically looked about like I did, but with better shoes.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 3:13 AM on December 1, 2023 [3 favorites]
There's dressing to conform, because otherwise you won't 'fit in', and then there's *dressing up*.
I don't like the former, but the latter is fun in the same way a dress ups box is fun.
And for the same reasons that going out for a meal not like you'd cook at home is fun.
A friend invited me out for a meal and a documentary on volcanolagists.
So I dressed with the theme of volcanos... Not literally, but red-orange-yellows with a lot of black behind it. I felt *fancy*. I looked fancy in some way, without it being in any way related to what is In Fashion at the moment.
Sticking more or less to one colour is something people do for fancy occasions and not as much for every day clothes, so you can have something weird but not fancy like yellow plaid overalls, but then if your accessories and hat and shoes complement, then you are doing A Fancy.
It can be good to have going out clothes or a going out 'uniform', because just like a work uniform, it helps establish the mental state - in this case, entertainment and not-work.
So, what you *you* think is cool?
If it's OK for you to go *out* to a fancy meal etc, then it's OK for you to get something fancy for it.
Get something vintage, or from an op shop so you aren't contributing to consumer waste.
A spoon is perfectly good, but not what you need when you're looking for a fork. Are your prefectly good clothes the right clothes for *these* occasions?
You don't have to dress like other people, but what is *your* version of "dressing Up"?
If that's too hard to figure out, perhaps look to another era, or fantasy things, to get an idea of what is dressy, but so different from what everyone else is wearing that you don't feel the same need to compare, because you're doing something *different*.
posted by Elysum at 4:33 AM on December 1, 2023 [2 favorites]
I don't like the former, but the latter is fun in the same way a dress ups box is fun.
And for the same reasons that going out for a meal not like you'd cook at home is fun.
A friend invited me out for a meal and a documentary on volcanolagists.
So I dressed with the theme of volcanos... Not literally, but red-orange-yellows with a lot of black behind it. I felt *fancy*. I looked fancy in some way, without it being in any way related to what is In Fashion at the moment.
Sticking more or less to one colour is something people do for fancy occasions and not as much for every day clothes, so you can have something weird but not fancy like yellow plaid overalls, but then if your accessories and hat and shoes complement, then you are doing A Fancy.
It can be good to have going out clothes or a going out 'uniform', because just like a work uniform, it helps establish the mental state - in this case, entertainment and not-work.
So, what you *you* think is cool?
If it's OK for you to go *out* to a fancy meal etc, then it's OK for you to get something fancy for it.
Get something vintage, or from an op shop so you aren't contributing to consumer waste.
A spoon is perfectly good, but not what you need when you're looking for a fork. Are your prefectly good clothes the right clothes for *these* occasions?
You don't have to dress like other people, but what is *your* version of "dressing Up"?
If that's too hard to figure out, perhaps look to another era, or fantasy things, to get an idea of what is dressy, but so different from what everyone else is wearing that you don't feel the same need to compare, because you're doing something *different*.
posted by Elysum at 4:33 AM on December 1, 2023 [2 favorites]
When do you feel happiest with your appearance? Do you have one or two outfits you feel best in?
posted by eirias at 4:37 AM on December 1, 2023
posted by eirias at 4:37 AM on December 1, 2023
Best answer: The way your question is presented it sounds like you would be more comfortable if you were able to put slightly more time into your appearance on certain occasions. You presumably need to hire child care for these events. For the next one, how about experimenting with having the child care provider show up 30 minutes earlier? Even if you aren't interested in FUSSING over your appearance, spending a little bit of extra time may make you feel better.
I'm not sure which values prevent you from buying more appropriate clothing for these events, but I am not sure how buying one secondhand outfit could conflict with them. It's used so has minimal environmental impact, it wouldn't cost a lot of money plus since you're attending fancy events that doesn't seem like the issue, and if you just value keeping a minimalist closet you can replace another outfit with it.
So I'm not sure if what you're experiencing is due to (a) self esteem issues which prevent you from feeling like you're "allowed" to take the time to look nice, (b) discomfort with grooming norms and you are using lack of time as an excuse to avoid them, (c) general dislike of your appearance which makes you feel self-conscious when you try, (d) an abusive relationship which denies you the time you need to feel good, or (e) a general habit of self-denial which you have convinced yourself is part of your values.
If the question REALLY is "I hate grooming rituals and/or I think I'm ugly even if I participate in them," that is something I understand! I make myself feel more comfortable in those spaces by remembering that I don't have the same values or priorities as the other women there. I'm a radical feminist who rejects a lot of beauty norms, I don't like the way makeup or certain clothes feel on my skin, I don't enjoy fussing with my hair and am not even interested in learning how to style it. Since I am making an active choice not to do things which don't serve me, I'm confident in it, and looking different from other people doesn't bother me.
posted by metasarah at 4:47 AM on December 1, 2023 [12 favorites]
I'm not sure which values prevent you from buying more appropriate clothing for these events, but I am not sure how buying one secondhand outfit could conflict with them. It's used so has minimal environmental impact, it wouldn't cost a lot of money plus since you're attending fancy events that doesn't seem like the issue, and if you just value keeping a minimalist closet you can replace another outfit with it.
So I'm not sure if what you're experiencing is due to (a) self esteem issues which prevent you from feeling like you're "allowed" to take the time to look nice, (b) discomfort with grooming norms and you are using lack of time as an excuse to avoid them, (c) general dislike of your appearance which makes you feel self-conscious when you try, (d) an abusive relationship which denies you the time you need to feel good, or (e) a general habit of self-denial which you have convinced yourself is part of your values.
If the question REALLY is "I hate grooming rituals and/or I think I'm ugly even if I participate in them," that is something I understand! I make myself feel more comfortable in those spaces by remembering that I don't have the same values or priorities as the other women there. I'm a radical feminist who rejects a lot of beauty norms, I don't like the way makeup or certain clothes feel on my skin, I don't enjoy fussing with my hair and am not even interested in learning how to style it. Since I am making an active choice not to do things which don't serve me, I'm confident in it, and looking different from other people doesn't bother me.
posted by metasarah at 4:47 AM on December 1, 2023 [12 favorites]
People wear nice things because it makes them feel good and powerful when they do, and that's ok
in a sad kind of way, if "nice things" means things chosen because other people seem likely to be impressed by them. The whole set of social expectations centred around dress codes is just a sickness. Why the fuck do human beings have to be so fucking mean to each other? Why is it so hard just to let people wear whatever they're comfortable in without giving them the side-eye for it?
the latter is fun in the same way a dress ups box is fun
which is to say not in the slightest for some of us. Ugh ugh ugh ugh ugh.
I do not want to wear anybody else's clothes. Frankly I struggle to get dressed in my own, and the idea of struggling even harder into some other outfit for no better reason than to try to change the way somebody else might perceive me seems like a hideous waste of effort. I find the idea that clothes maketh the man viscerally repugnant.
I've done my time in scouts uniform hell, and school uniform hell, and choir uniform hell, and workplace uniform hell, and I'm a retired grownup now and no fucking way will I happily do more time in social uniform hell. If I cannot attend an event in loose, soft, comfortable, non-synthetic fabrics without causing distress, I will look for ways to get out of going altogether.
I am a woman who doesn’t wear makeup, wears size 16-18 (US), and generally dresses for comfort rather than style.
You appear to have your shit together and your head screwed on straight, and if I saw you across a room crowded with people who had fancied themselves up just to be in it, that's most likely what I'd think when I did.
posted by flabdablet at 5:48 AM on December 1, 2023 [3 favorites]
in a sad kind of way, if "nice things" means things chosen because other people seem likely to be impressed by them. The whole set of social expectations centred around dress codes is just a sickness. Why the fuck do human beings have to be so fucking mean to each other? Why is it so hard just to let people wear whatever they're comfortable in without giving them the side-eye for it?
the latter is fun in the same way a dress ups box is fun
which is to say not in the slightest for some of us. Ugh ugh ugh ugh ugh.
I do not want to wear anybody else's clothes. Frankly I struggle to get dressed in my own, and the idea of struggling even harder into some other outfit for no better reason than to try to change the way somebody else might perceive me seems like a hideous waste of effort. I find the idea that clothes maketh the man viscerally repugnant.
I've done my time in scouts uniform hell, and school uniform hell, and choir uniform hell, and workplace uniform hell, and I'm a retired grownup now and no fucking way will I happily do more time in social uniform hell. If I cannot attend an event in loose, soft, comfortable, non-synthetic fabrics without causing distress, I will look for ways to get out of going altogether.
I am a woman who doesn’t wear makeup, wears size 16-18 (US), and generally dresses for comfort rather than style.
You appear to have your shit together and your head screwed on straight, and if I saw you across a room crowded with people who had fancied themselves up just to be in it, that's most likely what I'd think when I did.
posted by flabdablet at 5:48 AM on December 1, 2023 [3 favorites]
Best answer: This is sort of a glib answer, but you just… do it. I do this all the time, because I’m simply not comfortable dressing up. I mean - I’d love to, but due to my physical discomfort in most clothes, I already spend all my time, money, and energy finding basic clothes for day to day living and have nothing to spare for fancy.
As soon as you start to have thoughts/ feelings about being inadequately dressed, tell yourself “Nope, not doing this today” and focus on the sensory details of your environment instead of your feelings or thoughts.
When those thoughts and feelings come back (as they will), ask yourself “Do I want to be a person who compares herself negatively to others, or a person who exudes such a fabulous aura that she gets treated well no matter what she’s wearing?”. Repeat.
That said, if I were in your position, I would add one very deliberate detail to my appearance. Get your nails done or wear a nice necklace. This makes it look like you chose to look the way you do, as opposed to being unaware of how you come across to others.
posted by wheatlets at 5:56 AM on December 1, 2023 [6 favorites]
As soon as you start to have thoughts/ feelings about being inadequately dressed, tell yourself “Nope, not doing this today” and focus on the sensory details of your environment instead of your feelings or thoughts.
When those thoughts and feelings come back (as they will), ask yourself “Do I want to be a person who compares herself negatively to others, or a person who exudes such a fabulous aura that she gets treated well no matter what she’s wearing?”. Repeat.
That said, if I were in your position, I would add one very deliberate detail to my appearance. Get your nails done or wear a nice necklace. This makes it look like you chose to look the way you do, as opposed to being unaware of how you come across to others.
posted by wheatlets at 5:56 AM on December 1, 2023 [6 favorites]
add one very deliberate detail to my appearance. Get your nails done or wear a nice necklace. This makes it look like you chose to look the way you do
Or don't, so you come across like somebody who gives zero shits what kind of Just So stories anybody else might tell themselves about your clothing and grooming choices.
Main risk there is that you will end up some kind of fashion icon.
posted by flabdablet at 6:31 AM on December 1, 2023 [1 favorite]
Or don't, so you come across like somebody who gives zero shits what kind of Just So stories anybody else might tell themselves about your clothing and grooming choices.
Main risk there is that you will end up some kind of fashion icon.
posted by flabdablet at 6:31 AM on December 1, 2023 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thanks to everyone so far! I am most interested in tips on how to change my mindset rather than change my appearance. Here’s some background as it’s come up a few times:
- I have sensory issues and wearing clothes at all is hard for me, especially in the winter
- I’m anti-consumerism and forever working against the culturally generated impulse to buy things
- I think it’s bullshit that there’s such a double standard between male-presenting “dressing up” and female presenting dressing up.
- I was raised in a family where appearance and grooming was very important. It’s not something I want to derive my self worth from as an adult.
- There are cultural norms that I choose to reject because of my values and beliefs. Values and beliefs (to me) as separate from feelings. So, for example, I can value a wide range of gender expression and not shave my very hairy legs as an exemplar of that. But I can also feel ambivalent and uncomfortable with people commenting or staring. I don’t expect people to stop commenting or staring. I would like to work on my “I don’t give a fuck” attitude and build it up
posted by CMcG at 6:55 AM on December 1, 2023 [1 favorite]
- I have sensory issues and wearing clothes at all is hard for me, especially in the winter
- I’m anti-consumerism and forever working against the culturally generated impulse to buy things
- I think it’s bullshit that there’s such a double standard between male-presenting “dressing up” and female presenting dressing up.
- I was raised in a family where appearance and grooming was very important. It’s not something I want to derive my self worth from as an adult.
- There are cultural norms that I choose to reject because of my values and beliefs. Values and beliefs (to me) as separate from feelings. So, for example, I can value a wide range of gender expression and not shave my very hairy legs as an exemplar of that. But I can also feel ambivalent and uncomfortable with people commenting or staring. I don’t expect people to stop commenting or staring. I would like to work on my “I don’t give a fuck” attitude and build it up
posted by CMcG at 6:55 AM on December 1, 2023 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Thank you for your update! It is clarifying, and I feel very similar to you. It is completely understandable to be happy and firm in your choices, and still feel crummy when people judge you harshly for them. You have gotten a lot of advice that boils down to “you are allowed to have clothes that you like and feel good in,” which is true! But if you already do, it is also extremely human to second-guess yourself and not like it when people are jerks about what you wear.
In these situations, I find that I feel best when everything about my outfit and grooming is a deliberate choice. When I am wearing something I like, and that I feel good in, it is a lot easier to remember that I am in control of my own self and if other people are jerks then who needs them. But when I get ready in a rush, or am wearing something that is maybe old or slightly defective, or just didn’t think about my outfit that much, that’s when I start to feel more self-conscious. (It’s the difference between “my legs are hairy because I ran out of time, oh no” and “my legs are hairy because I like them that way and screw you.”)
For me, the feelings trigger is feeling out of control, or like I am unprepared for being a Person Out On The Town. But when I know I look the way I do because I chose it, I feel good.
And, if you are more like flabdablet and find even the act of choosing your wardrobe to be stressful and not true to self, then choosing to not think about it is also a deliberate choice! I think you can feel good about that, too. In that case, maybe there is something you can visualize, or a memento you can have in your pocket, to remind you of that and keep you grounded in the moments you feel judged.
posted by CtrlAltDelete at 7:44 AM on December 1, 2023 [5 favorites]
In these situations, I find that I feel best when everything about my outfit and grooming is a deliberate choice. When I am wearing something I like, and that I feel good in, it is a lot easier to remember that I am in control of my own self and if other people are jerks then who needs them. But when I get ready in a rush, or am wearing something that is maybe old or slightly defective, or just didn’t think about my outfit that much, that’s when I start to feel more self-conscious. (It’s the difference between “my legs are hairy because I ran out of time, oh no” and “my legs are hairy because I like them that way and screw you.”)
For me, the feelings trigger is feeling out of control, or like I am unprepared for being a Person Out On The Town. But when I know I look the way I do because I chose it, I feel good.
And, if you are more like flabdablet and find even the act of choosing your wardrobe to be stressful and not true to self, then choosing to not think about it is also a deliberate choice! I think you can feel good about that, too. In that case, maybe there is something you can visualize, or a memento you can have in your pocket, to remind you of that and keep you grounded in the moments you feel judged.
posted by CtrlAltDelete at 7:44 AM on December 1, 2023 [5 favorites]
One thing I've realized upon getting older as a female presenting person is that no one is looking or caring nearly as much as you imagine they are. Your outfit choice maybe trigger a 1 to 3 second thought in someone's mind but if it goes beyond that, that's really a reflection of their own insecurities and not a value judgment on you.
I have a very unconventional personal style, so I often get weird looks in public and I do not change my style for special events. If someone wants me at a function, I assume they want my presence and not my willingness to shop at Bergdorf.
I decided long ago that I do not have time to worry about what anyone else thinks about me. It's none of my business, and frankly I have better things to do than occupy my precious time on this earth with guessing games of other people's opinions of me. I encourage you to adopt a similar mindset. It's very freeing.
PS if someone makes unpleasant commentary to your face, you have my full permission to smile dangerously and say, "well, bless your heart."
posted by ananci at 7:52 AM on December 1, 2023 [1 favorite]
I have a very unconventional personal style, so I often get weird looks in public and I do not change my style for special events. If someone wants me at a function, I assume they want my presence and not my willingness to shop at Bergdorf.
I decided long ago that I do not have time to worry about what anyone else thinks about me. It's none of my business, and frankly I have better things to do than occupy my precious time on this earth with guessing games of other people's opinions of me. I encourage you to adopt a similar mindset. It's very freeing.
PS if someone makes unpleasant commentary to your face, you have my full permission to smile dangerously and say, "well, bless your heart."
posted by ananci at 7:52 AM on December 1, 2023 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Not giving any fucks is a process. Like all habits it is indeed crucial to build up to it, and you won't hit perfect no-fuckdom every single day. Having fallback options that don't compromise your values too much is useful. Keep in mind that they're mostly psychological fallbacks, because truly nobody else cares about each of us as much as we do, so what's important is that they feel meaningful to you because nobody's gonna validate any of this. That's the realm where stuff like "one very deliberate detail" fits well, since maybe it does or maybe it doesn't actually communicate that you're doing this on purpose, but it feels like it does, and that's what matters.
I hope you don't mind if I use leg hair as an example: it's such a definitive thing that it seems easier to talk about than clothes/style. I'm guessing you probably already feel like covering up the hair is sufficient to neutralize its existence, and I think it's helpful to recognize that that's actually a step beyond shaving under all circumstances. If it's the "people seeing it" that's the problem, going out to a fancy place with it visible would be seriously hard mode. There are so many elements of society working against you at that point, when you're just trying to have a nice dinner. Giving zero fucks about all of that's a great goal, but be patient with yourself. Building up one-on-one positive experiences where people initially are slightly-to-moderately surprised and maybe a little judgey about your appearance but get over it can help your internal sense that everything is going to be okay. So I think figuring out where your actual comfort zone is–not your ideal one, not your ideological one, but where you're actually fully okay–and then pushing gradually outwards from there is the way to go. Deciding to not shave and having a long garment to wear when you want are not contradictions: some days it's our own hangups we need to not give fucks about.
posted by teremala at 8:09 AM on December 1, 2023 [4 favorites]
I hope you don't mind if I use leg hair as an example: it's such a definitive thing that it seems easier to talk about than clothes/style. I'm guessing you probably already feel like covering up the hair is sufficient to neutralize its existence, and I think it's helpful to recognize that that's actually a step beyond shaving under all circumstances. If it's the "people seeing it" that's the problem, going out to a fancy place with it visible would be seriously hard mode. There are so many elements of society working against you at that point, when you're just trying to have a nice dinner. Giving zero fucks about all of that's a great goal, but be patient with yourself. Building up one-on-one positive experiences where people initially are slightly-to-moderately surprised and maybe a little judgey about your appearance but get over it can help your internal sense that everything is going to be okay. So I think figuring out where your actual comfort zone is–not your ideal one, not your ideological one, but where you're actually fully okay–and then pushing gradually outwards from there is the way to go. Deciding to not shave and having a long garment to wear when you want are not contradictions: some days it's our own hangups we need to not give fucks about.
posted by teremala at 8:09 AM on December 1, 2023 [4 favorites]
I wanted to chime in here with an artist's perspective.
The original fashionista in the Florentine Renaissance Baldessare Castiglione declared that a well dressed wealthy person should dress understated with subtle codes that give away personal wealth without being flashy. He suggested that artists especially should wear black as a sign of humility and restraint against conspicuous consumption, and at the time the Dutch made the finest linen in black, so one would make a black Dutch linen garment, but cut it on the cross grain to show the 'in' crowd that the wearer could afford to 'waste' the expensive fabric by its cut. Accessories such a rare type gems like pearls, which at the time were much more expensive than conventional gems, would show status without being conspicuous. Over dressing and wearing a lot of jewelry was considered in poor taste, and many 'old money' families still follow this kind of logic.
This tradition is so strong that contemporary formal events such as a theatrical or art gallery opening, many attendees with still wear simple black with some identifiable accents. Women like Jackie O and ERII preferred a simple strand of (very expensive large) pearls to advertise their preference for aesthetic restraint even though they could afford much more grandiose displays.Queen Elizabeth was so constrained by choosing specific gems for state and public events, she chose a lot of simplicity in her private life, especially the pearls.
So, "pearl clutching" has become a metaphor for virtue signaling. On the masculine front, famous designers like Karl Lagerfeld or Isse Miyaki adopted extremely simple dress styles. As did Steve Jobs, so many of the tech crowd follow that aesthetic.
Anyway, all this to say that your could adopt a very simple black palette with a nice simple strand of pearls and fit right in to a fancy aesthetic environment. Perhaps black silk stockings for hirsute legs. I hope you find this information empowering and helpful.
posted by effluvia at 11:52 AM on December 1, 2023 [3 favorites]
The original fashionista in the Florentine Renaissance Baldessare Castiglione declared that a well dressed wealthy person should dress understated with subtle codes that give away personal wealth without being flashy. He suggested that artists especially should wear black as a sign of humility and restraint against conspicuous consumption, and at the time the Dutch made the finest linen in black, so one would make a black Dutch linen garment, but cut it on the cross grain to show the 'in' crowd that the wearer could afford to 'waste' the expensive fabric by its cut. Accessories such a rare type gems like pearls, which at the time were much more expensive than conventional gems, would show status without being conspicuous. Over dressing and wearing a lot of jewelry was considered in poor taste, and many 'old money' families still follow this kind of logic.
This tradition is so strong that contemporary formal events such as a theatrical or art gallery opening, many attendees with still wear simple black with some identifiable accents. Women like Jackie O and ERII preferred a simple strand of (very expensive large) pearls to advertise their preference for aesthetic restraint even though they could afford much more grandiose displays.Queen Elizabeth was so constrained by choosing specific gems for state and public events, she chose a lot of simplicity in her private life, especially the pearls.
So, "pearl clutching" has become a metaphor for virtue signaling. On the masculine front, famous designers like Karl Lagerfeld or Isse Miyaki adopted extremely simple dress styles. As did Steve Jobs, so many of the tech crowd follow that aesthetic.
Anyway, all this to say that your could adopt a very simple black palette with a nice simple strand of pearls and fit right in to a fancy aesthetic environment. Perhaps black silk stockings for hirsute legs. I hope you find this information empowering and helpful.
posted by effluvia at 11:52 AM on December 1, 2023 [3 favorites]
There are cultural norms that I choose to reject because of my values and beliefs.
If it helps: I am personally far more impressed by the values and beliefs you outlined above than by any of the cultural norms they run counter to.
Many, many norms are just fucked and long overdue for change, the entire set around dress codes included. You're fighting the good fight and you have my respect for doing so.
posted by flabdablet at 10:50 PM on December 1, 2023 [2 favorites]
If it helps: I am personally far more impressed by the values and beliefs you outlined above than by any of the cultural norms they run counter to.
Many, many norms are just fucked and long overdue for change, the entire set around dress codes included. You're fighting the good fight and you have my respect for doing so.
posted by flabdablet at 10:50 PM on December 1, 2023 [2 favorites]
Often people who are dining out somewhere fancy are doing so on a business expense account. They are required to dress that way to avoid a tactful discussion with the personnel department and their promotion prospects being torpedoed without anything being said. There's going to a whole lot of them just waiting to get home and get into something comfortable.
One thing you can do is look at the other women who might be intimidating you, with the eye of an anthropologist. The standard of wearing feathers in your hair is an important marker of belonging to an exclusive group, and signals to the wearer that they should snub anyone not wearing feathers. The number of feathers and value of feathers is something they are trained to identify unconsciously. If you someone else wears egret feathers instead of ostrich feathers, or two plumes instead of three, they are betraying that they are not following a strict dress code. There were people in that room for whom you were invisible, like waitstaff that was not waiting on them. You were signalling you were a nonentity by what you wore, and that can make anyone feel really uncomfortable.
Now the last thing you really want to do is devote all your time and energy to a job at a corporation which is both destroying the environment and the economy. Nor to you really thirst to be aware which brands of ladies semi-formal separates signal the difference between middle management and upper management. I don't think you want to be presented at court and get a shot of marrying a title, especially not at the cost of causing the extinction of a lot of enormous beautiful birds. Much of the look you were briefly attracted to requires conspicuous consumption to weed out the people who can't afford it, but a lot of it also requires being a member of the in-group and studying the display required to get the nuances right.
You can spend the money, but there is a high chance that everyone in that culture will pass their eyes over you and instantly and unconsciously pigeonhole you as not one of them. After all, the purpose of the display is to winnow people out. The closest you are going to come is gaining the same status as someone who boasts that they applied to enter a roots level beauty pageant once, but didn't get selected as a contestant. If you haven't spent ten years working on hair, make up and wardrobe, and if you do not have the correct bone structure and metabolism, you don't really have a chance of becoming the runner-up Miss Mall-in-Peoria. You're looking at people who started their training in conventional beauty display before they even started junior high, and who worked at it seriously, quite likely more seriously than they did their academics.
With the eye of an anthropologist, you can also examine what they are wearing with an eye to what it signals. For example stupid shoes you can't run in, and skirts that are too tight to run in either, are a signal that you are there purely as decoration. You are signalling that you don't have to be capable, because other people will leap to deal with any problems for you. The foundation that women wear is a signal that they are aping the look of pre-pubescence. Once they are no longer able to trigger an instinctive hard wired awareness of their beauty because they are no longer twelve, they substitute Chanel Vitalumière Aqua; the discerning know this means that they have money and a cultural in, which both last longer than the stage of life that precedes acne.
Also, if you look at those other women with the eyes of a bitch, you will quickly start to discern flaws. Naturally you haven't been staring. But if they were your best girlfriends and you spent time with them, you'd quickly see that the botox hadn't worked perfectly symmetrically, and that the Spanx had resulted in a funny bulge at the bottom of her rib cage, and that she is wearing a longer skirt than is fashionable because a too long skirt is less of a faux pas than showing her naturally knobby knees, and that she is wearing blue, because blue eye shadow is in this season, but in order to correct her complexion so that it doesn't give her a yellow tint, she has the foundation laid on so thickly that she could be using porous membrane scar concealer patches. Oh, AND she bought that blouse in the Spring and the colour is already on the way out...
But you are neither a bitch, nor one of their best girlfriends, so you only see gleaming, magazine like perfection and it all looks really well pulled together. People who do that kind of grooming and dressing usually love it. They appreciate the detail. They don't find it an imposition; it's absorbing, rewarding and fascinating. But you don't. So it's kind of like going to a concert and feeling inadequate that everyone on stage can play music beautifully and you dropped out of music lessons, forgetting how thankful you were, and forgetting everything you would have missed if you had gotten into a routine of twelve to thirty hours of practice every week. When you hear that music... oh, the bottom can drop out of your stomach and you can think, I want to.... I want to... But you really only want it if you could magically get it without putting the work in.
Seeing fashion as a possible alternative is GOOD. It means you are not stuck in a rut, trapped without the imagination to picture any kind of change. Not buying those outfits, mean that you are realistic about your pipe dreams. It might have been great good fun to give yourself an entire makeover and appreciate the skill, knowledge and money that goes into achieving The Look, and there IS a lot about the look that is lovely. Going all out could be satisfying and fun, and also be a way to show love and appreciation for your body and your spirit, and it could boost your ego and raise your status in the eyes of strangers... And so could taking up distance running, or playing concert violin (it takes about four or five years of dedicated work, minimum to figure out if you will ever actually be any good at it) or going into municipal politics, or getting heavily into nesting and interior decorating. Any of those options would be an awful lot of work though.
I am personally far more impressed by the values and beliefs you outlined above than by any of the cultural norms they run counter to. flabdablet
Me too.
To me the current fashions remind me of the fashions of Mme Pompadour, just before the French Revolution. They feels like part of the giddy times in the cabarets of the Weimar Republic. So very, very pretty. But what do they signal as a historic trend? They are so striking, and so very far apart from the workaday world of people who do the essential work of the world and struggle for bread and shelter.
posted by Jane the Brown at 9:09 AM on December 2, 2023 [1 favorite]
One thing you can do is look at the other women who might be intimidating you, with the eye of an anthropologist. The standard of wearing feathers in your hair is an important marker of belonging to an exclusive group, and signals to the wearer that they should snub anyone not wearing feathers. The number of feathers and value of feathers is something they are trained to identify unconsciously. If you someone else wears egret feathers instead of ostrich feathers, or two plumes instead of three, they are betraying that they are not following a strict dress code. There were people in that room for whom you were invisible, like waitstaff that was not waiting on them. You were signalling you were a nonentity by what you wore, and that can make anyone feel really uncomfortable.
Now the last thing you really want to do is devote all your time and energy to a job at a corporation which is both destroying the environment and the economy. Nor to you really thirst to be aware which brands of ladies semi-formal separates signal the difference between middle management and upper management. I don't think you want to be presented at court and get a shot of marrying a title, especially not at the cost of causing the extinction of a lot of enormous beautiful birds. Much of the look you were briefly attracted to requires conspicuous consumption to weed out the people who can't afford it, but a lot of it also requires being a member of the in-group and studying the display required to get the nuances right.
You can spend the money, but there is a high chance that everyone in that culture will pass their eyes over you and instantly and unconsciously pigeonhole you as not one of them. After all, the purpose of the display is to winnow people out. The closest you are going to come is gaining the same status as someone who boasts that they applied to enter a roots level beauty pageant once, but didn't get selected as a contestant. If you haven't spent ten years working on hair, make up and wardrobe, and if you do not have the correct bone structure and metabolism, you don't really have a chance of becoming the runner-up Miss Mall-in-Peoria. You're looking at people who started their training in conventional beauty display before they even started junior high, and who worked at it seriously, quite likely more seriously than they did their academics.
With the eye of an anthropologist, you can also examine what they are wearing with an eye to what it signals. For example stupid shoes you can't run in, and skirts that are too tight to run in either, are a signal that you are there purely as decoration. You are signalling that you don't have to be capable, because other people will leap to deal with any problems for you. The foundation that women wear is a signal that they are aping the look of pre-pubescence. Once they are no longer able to trigger an instinctive hard wired awareness of their beauty because they are no longer twelve, they substitute Chanel Vitalumière Aqua; the discerning know this means that they have money and a cultural in, which both last longer than the stage of life that precedes acne.
Also, if you look at those other women with the eyes of a bitch, you will quickly start to discern flaws. Naturally you haven't been staring. But if they were your best girlfriends and you spent time with them, you'd quickly see that the botox hadn't worked perfectly symmetrically, and that the Spanx had resulted in a funny bulge at the bottom of her rib cage, and that she is wearing a longer skirt than is fashionable because a too long skirt is less of a faux pas than showing her naturally knobby knees, and that she is wearing blue, because blue eye shadow is in this season, but in order to correct her complexion so that it doesn't give her a yellow tint, she has the foundation laid on so thickly that she could be using porous membrane scar concealer patches. Oh, AND she bought that blouse in the Spring and the colour is already on the way out...
But you are neither a bitch, nor one of their best girlfriends, so you only see gleaming, magazine like perfection and it all looks really well pulled together. People who do that kind of grooming and dressing usually love it. They appreciate the detail. They don't find it an imposition; it's absorbing, rewarding and fascinating. But you don't. So it's kind of like going to a concert and feeling inadequate that everyone on stage can play music beautifully and you dropped out of music lessons, forgetting how thankful you were, and forgetting everything you would have missed if you had gotten into a routine of twelve to thirty hours of practice every week. When you hear that music... oh, the bottom can drop out of your stomach and you can think, I want to.... I want to... But you really only want it if you could magically get it without putting the work in.
Seeing fashion as a possible alternative is GOOD. It means you are not stuck in a rut, trapped without the imagination to picture any kind of change. Not buying those outfits, mean that you are realistic about your pipe dreams. It might have been great good fun to give yourself an entire makeover and appreciate the skill, knowledge and money that goes into achieving The Look, and there IS a lot about the look that is lovely. Going all out could be satisfying and fun, and also be a way to show love and appreciation for your body and your spirit, and it could boost your ego and raise your status in the eyes of strangers... And so could taking up distance running, or playing concert violin (it takes about four or five years of dedicated work, minimum to figure out if you will ever actually be any good at it) or going into municipal politics, or getting heavily into nesting and interior decorating. Any of those options would be an awful lot of work though.
I am personally far more impressed by the values and beliefs you outlined above than by any of the cultural norms they run counter to. flabdablet
Me too.
To me the current fashions remind me of the fashions of Mme Pompadour, just before the French Revolution. They feels like part of the giddy times in the cabarets of the Weimar Republic. So very, very pretty. But what do they signal as a historic trend? They are so striking, and so very far apart from the workaday world of people who do the essential work of the world and struggle for bread and shelter.
posted by Jane the Brown at 9:09 AM on December 2, 2023 [1 favorite]
Based on the comments you’ve favorited and your follow-up, I would recommend getting one “dressing up uniform” for yourself, but ensuring that it aligns with your needs and values.
To get something in a comfortable fabric and fit, you might need to buy new rather than used (though used is a good option if you can find something suitable!). Avoid fast fashion, of course, and instead get something really well made that’s designed to last and in a classic style that doesn’t worry about fashion trends. Maybe this is the occasion to splurge on… I forget the name temporarily, but the nonbinary/androgynous bespoke brand out of NYC that will make casual suits for people of any body shape?
Ensuring that this one “dressy” uniform will meet a variety of both serious and celebratory occasions is the tricky part. What has worked for me has been to get a very neutral base of a pair of trouser and one or two shirts (button down shirts don’t work for me; if you’re the same, this could be a knit or a slightly dressy t-shirt/shell instead - the fabric and style of the neck trim will make a big difference in dressiness level in the latter case); and then to get two further items that will adjust the level of formality/seriousness of the look: a more business-like suit/sport coat that would make the outfit appropriate for funerals or similarly serious events (you can hold off on this until you have such an occasion, but select your other items with this eventuality in mind), and something that signifies “fun” for the type of outings you describe, weddings, and similar more celebratory occasions. This second item could be a sweater, or a more informal and fun blazer, or just a scarf. Shoe choice can also be used in this adjustment way, or you could get a pair of shoes that would be part of the neutral base. I find that since menswear is more standardized, it’s a lot easier to achieve this uniform with that style or something closely based on a menswear style. I’ve also found that it’s easier to find these adjustment items secondhand - lots of good used men’s suit/sport coats or fun scarves can be found, for example. It still feels counterintuitive to me, but it’s worth spending a bit more on your two or three neutral base items. (I grew up having to “dress up” for extended family events and school concert days and such, but since we didn’t have a lot of money, it was always the poorly-fitting, fabrics that didn’t breathe or were scratchy, cheap “dressy” clothes. When I finally (a) had enough disposable income and (b) gave myself permission to spend a little more on clothing that was comfortable and that I felt good it, it was a huge surprise to discover that some of the more expensive brands that my earlier clothes were cheap knock-offs of were actually comfortable. And then I read that it’s relatively common for designers to initially design the more expensive brands, and then purposely enshittify the designs for the cheaper brands. So avoiding that whole classist dumpster by getting handmade/bespoke items for your two to three base items could be a more ethical alternative.)
Then, I have a garment bag where I keep the uniform in the corner of my closet when not in use.
posted by eviemath at 10:06 AM on December 2, 2023
To get something in a comfortable fabric and fit, you might need to buy new rather than used (though used is a good option if you can find something suitable!). Avoid fast fashion, of course, and instead get something really well made that’s designed to last and in a classic style that doesn’t worry about fashion trends. Maybe this is the occasion to splurge on… I forget the name temporarily, but the nonbinary/androgynous bespoke brand out of NYC that will make casual suits for people of any body shape?
Ensuring that this one “dressy” uniform will meet a variety of both serious and celebratory occasions is the tricky part. What has worked for me has been to get a very neutral base of a pair of trouser and one or two shirts (button down shirts don’t work for me; if you’re the same, this could be a knit or a slightly dressy t-shirt/shell instead - the fabric and style of the neck trim will make a big difference in dressiness level in the latter case); and then to get two further items that will adjust the level of formality/seriousness of the look: a more business-like suit/sport coat that would make the outfit appropriate for funerals or similarly serious events (you can hold off on this until you have such an occasion, but select your other items with this eventuality in mind), and something that signifies “fun” for the type of outings you describe, weddings, and similar more celebratory occasions. This second item could be a sweater, or a more informal and fun blazer, or just a scarf. Shoe choice can also be used in this adjustment way, or you could get a pair of shoes that would be part of the neutral base. I find that since menswear is more standardized, it’s a lot easier to achieve this uniform with that style or something closely based on a menswear style. I’ve also found that it’s easier to find these adjustment items secondhand - lots of good used men’s suit/sport coats or fun scarves can be found, for example. It still feels counterintuitive to me, but it’s worth spending a bit more on your two or three neutral base items. (I grew up having to “dress up” for extended family events and school concert days and such, but since we didn’t have a lot of money, it was always the poorly-fitting, fabrics that didn’t breathe or were scratchy, cheap “dressy” clothes. When I finally (a) had enough disposable income and (b) gave myself permission to spend a little more on clothing that was comfortable and that I felt good it, it was a huge surprise to discover that some of the more expensive brands that my earlier clothes were cheap knock-offs of were actually comfortable. And then I read that it’s relatively common for designers to initially design the more expensive brands, and then purposely enshittify the designs for the cheaper brands. So avoiding that whole classist dumpster by getting handmade/bespoke items for your two to three base items could be a more ethical alternative.)
Then, I have a garment bag where I keep the uniform in the corner of my closet when not in use.
posted by eviemath at 10:06 AM on December 2, 2023
Any social setting involves the participants working together to create the atmosphere. At a "nice" restaurant, the atmosphere everyone is coming together to create involves speaking softly, using more formal table manners, and wearing formal clothing. Formality can apply to any gender presentation, and doesn't require one to be fashionable or attractive in any way. So when you get caught up in something irrelevant like "am I pretty?", you can remind yourself of the ways in which you are helping to build the "nice" atmosphere that you are enjoying.
If the issue is more that you want to (emotionally) fight for your right to order a tasting menu while wearing whatever you picked out last time you let yourself buy clothes, you need to remind yourself that feelings don't really matter. You fulfilled your anti-consumerist duties by not consuming, you don't also need to purge yourself of impure thoughts. Navel gazing is not activism, cut yourself some slack and enjoy the thyme granita.
posted by umwelt at 7:37 PM on December 3, 2023 [3 favorites]
If the issue is more that you want to (emotionally) fight for your right to order a tasting menu while wearing whatever you picked out last time you let yourself buy clothes, you need to remind yourself that feelings don't really matter. You fulfilled your anti-consumerist duties by not consuming, you don't also need to purge yourself of impure thoughts. Navel gazing is not activism, cut yourself some slack and enjoy the thyme granita.
posted by umwelt at 7:37 PM on December 3, 2023 [3 favorites]
« Older Standalone English-Chinese translation app? | Do children of alumni get special consideration... Newer »
You are not logged in, either login or create an account to post comments
Another question is whether you feel that your partner is attracted to you. If your partner thinks you look great dressed in everyday clothing while going out, isn't that what matters? Can you focus on that?
Finally, are there some small things you could do to make yourself feel a little fancier without doing a ton of work, like wearing simple but nice earrings, buying one (1) lipstick or tinted lip balm you really like to always wear, maybe buying some flats that are dressier than your everyday shoes but are still comfortable? It's a lot of work to go from "chasing toddler" to "to the nines," but a few small additions to your routine can change your look significantly. But only if you would like to!
posted by praemunire at 4:07 PM on November 30, 2023 [17 favorites]