Ideas to check on our troublesome dishwasher!

November 2, 2023 8:10 AM

We've already done a lot of troubleshooting but are still having trouble getting dishes clean lately. Lots of detail incoming

This is a KitchenAid that has performed fine up until the last week or two. We haven't changed how we load the dishes or the type of soap we use. We had a problem periodically of the detergent pod sticking to the door and not dissolving, but I thought it was an issue with the holder being wet. Even when it seems to dissolve completely we're seeing issues.

We have hard water and have run a few rounds of vinegar to see if it was buildup but it hasn't made much of a difference.

We've deep cleaned all the filters inside and checked the arms for blockages.

We haven't ever used rinse aid and I'm inclined to say I don't want to have to buy something else but I might try it if people are convinced it would make a difference.

Dishes are coming out still dirty, like obvious grease and food particles still on them.

When we open the dishwasher it's steaming hot so it doesn't seem to be a temp issue. We've tried different cycles and not seen a difference. We haven't heard any noises that seem to indicate it's the inlet valve.

I've done lots of Googling and as far as I can tell we've addressed everything. My husband's guess is that a motor part is not working well so the water isn't being pushed with the right force, but I have no idea how to check for that.

posted by brilliantine to Home & Garden (19 answers total)

If you would like a slightly supercilious nerd to lecture you about dishwashers, Technology Connections is here for you!

Detergent packs are kinda wishy-washy (Dishwashers Explained)
I messed up. You're using too much detergent.
posted by zamboni at 8:18 AM on November 2, 2023

In case you didn't stumble across this website in your search quest...
posted by SageTrail at 8:18 AM on November 2, 2023

It sounds like the arms aren't spinning. You can check by opening mid-cycle. This can be caused by something hanging down and blocking them.

Once you do get it working again, you should consider:

Dishwasher salt https://www.bosch-home.com/us/specials/dishwashing-detergent-salt

Use powder instead of pods.
posted by flimflam at 8:18 AM on November 2, 2023 [2 favorites]

Perhaps the pump has failed in your dishwasher.
posted by axismundi at 8:30 AM on November 2, 2023

Check the holes on the spray arms. If they clog, the arms won't spin. No spinning means no water hitting the detergent dispenser to release the soap. And, obviously, nothing is spraying water on any of your dishes.
posted by JoeZydeco at 8:33 AM on November 2, 2023

How old is it? We just replaced our 7yo dishwasher for similar issues. They don't make 'em like they used to and it's not really worth fixing them beyond the warranty period IMO.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:39 AM on November 2, 2023 [1 favorite]

Best answer: I believe the water inlet valve controls the water force. On my Bosch dishwasher, it was actually an easy and cheap part to replace. On visual inspection, I didn't see a thing wrong with it, but it has a computer chip, so who knows? Works like new again now.

I also have hard water, and was having similar issues - ie: plenty hot inside, arms clean, and almost no dishwasher soap dissolved.

Jet dry didn't really make any difference in terms of hard water, but it does seem to have an effect on dishes drying.

I have heard about dishwasher salt, but on most US dishwashers, there is no salt tank. For example on mine, there's a circle on the bottom of the dishwasher where it's supposed to go, but no actual cutout in the bottom where the salt tank would go on a different model.
posted by The_Vegetables at 8:49 AM on November 2, 2023

I was having dishwasher problems (truncated cycle, dishes felt greasy and not fully clean) and after a few under-dissolved pods, I started cutting the pods in half and squeezing out the powder into the holder. Only using half of the powder (our dishwasher is not super new and not souped up) and eliminating the gel-pod shell has fixed my issue. It sounds like you have a different immediate issue, but you might consider switching away from pods as part of a long-term strategy.
posted by spamandkimchi at 9:08 AM on November 2, 2023

put an old gopro with waterproof housing inside
posted by dum spiro spero at 9:10 AM on November 2, 2023 [2 favorites]

If you open the dishwasher during the wash cycle (carefully) you can usually see if the arms are spinning or not as they don't stop immediately. You can also get an idea of how much water pressure is being developed (it should be enough to shoot halfway across your kitchen if you were to open it too fast).

If the arms aren't spinning, you can see if it is both (indicating a problem with the pump or a blockage somewhere underneath) or just one isn't spinning (indicating a blockage in the arm itself or in the pipes running to it). If the arms are blocked directly, you can usually figure out where or how by taking them off and running water directly through them in the sink.
posted by ssg at 9:27 AM on November 2, 2023 [1 favorite]

Needle-tip tweezers for blocked dishwasher arm jet holes.
posted by lokta at 9:39 AM on November 2, 2023

I'd suspect that something is still clogged even though you've cleaned all the filters and checked the arms for blockages. The first thing I'd do would be to tear all those parts down again and make extra sure they're clean. I'd also download the parts and service manuals to make sure there's not a second filter concealed somewhere.

This could also be symptom of a failing drain pump or clogged drain line. Is there standing water in the bottom at the end of a cycle? When you run the dishwasher, do you hear water draining in the sink next to it when the wash cycle ends and the rinse cycle starts?
posted by fedward at 9:51 AM on November 2, 2023

Response by poster: progress! I opened the washer mid-cycle and confirmed the arms are sort of spraying water but not spinning, so we are going to pull it out tonight and check for a. other blockages and b. if we need to change out the inlet valve. Also confirmed we don't have a spot for salt but I'm going to try using citric acid. You all are the best!
posted by brilliantine at 10:57 AM on November 2, 2023 [2 favorites]

long shot, but did you recently start loading a larger object like a baking sheet across the front of the lower rack? if so, that can block water from
hitting the pod in the dispenser and dissolving it.
posted by zippy at 10:58 AM on November 2, 2023

Best answer: If neither arm is spinning and they are only sort of spraying out water, the most likely culprit is the main pump/motor itself or possibly a blockage near it.

The inlet valve controls the flow of water into the dishwasher and has no effect on the flow of water inside it once the dishwasher has filled and the pump is running. If the water level in the tub is normal, the inlet valve is fine.
posted by ssg at 11:25 AM on November 2, 2023 [1 favorite]

When our dishwasher was misbehaving, the repairman updated the software. It's possible that a line surge had damaged the program memory.
posted by SemiSalt at 11:30 AM on November 2, 2023

I have a KitchenAid and had this exact problem last year. The washer was filling and seemed to run, but stuff came out dirty. If I opened it mid-cycle, there would be hot water so I knew it was filling. Some loose water dribbled out of the cleaning arms, but they definitely weren't spinning. I did all the same vinegar/filter cleaning.

I narrowed it down to the float switch or the pump motor assembly. Apparently if you have a bad float switch, the drain valve can stick open so water just drains out and doesn't actually clean. If you have a bad pump motor, it fills the basin but doesn't send water to the cleaning arms. I tried the float switch first because it was a $10 part, but the problem persisted.

It ended up being the pump motor. If you go to a bunch of appliance repair forums, this seems to be a common thing in KitchenAid dishwashers that are more than 6 or 7 years old. I ordered the part online and did it myself with the help of youtube videos. It was kind of daunting because I'm not mechanically skilled, but I didn't have the money for a repair technician or a new dishwasher, so I muddled through. I'll add that apparently you can do a piece meal replacement of the pump assembly (as in just buy and replace the circulation pump or other parts) or you can just buy it all as one assembly. I went for the assembly because each order/ship/repair attempt was taking time and I just wanted it fixed.

You might be able to find the technician service guide PDF for your model. If you do, there is a KitchenAid diagnostic mode with a chart for the codes. Once you turn it on, it runs a test cycle and flashes out codes on the buttons. I didn't find it particularly helpful, but you might want to run it anyway. For reference, my error code was 6-4 (which translated to "Water Inlet - Float Switch Open" even though the float switch was fine.)

Some links I found helpful:

Appliance Repair forum

Repair Clinic (seller of parts but they also made a detailed video of installing the pump motor assembly, double check the part number for your model)

Overview on installing the pump motor assembly
posted by bluecore at 11:34 AM on November 2, 2023 [4 favorites]

This doesn't relate to a failed part needing replacement, but is good to know: A thing I do with ours every year or so if it starts slacking is to unscrew the various screws in there (two are Robertson, 5 are torx in my case) to allow me to pull the spinning arms out and then pull the plastic shroud under the user-serviceable filter-screen thing. That shroud and the arms both collect gunk so I clean them, and then I pick out anything that has gotten down in there under the shroud into the sump area. Jar labels, small bits of broken glass, grape stems, cherry pits, bits of plastic bag or labels, etc. Usually I see something of that nature blocking water flow that could explain reduced performance. THEN: I dump a small bucket of water into the sump, and suck it back out with a wet-dry shop vac 2 or 3 times. Other debris that is way down in one of the various ports gets pulled out that way. Usually perks the old thing back up pretty good.
posted by kiblinger at 12:43 PM on November 3, 2023 [1 favorite]

Response by poster: for anyone who was curious - we had a repair guy in and he confirmed the motor was shot.
posted by brilliantine at 11:56 AM on November 8, 2023 [1 favorite]