Maybe I Can't Make It Here...
November 2, 2023 4:09 AM Subscribe
I live in New York City - the one place I always wanted to live when I grew up. I love it here. But I'm realizing (after 30+ years) that my job situation has rarely been that stable, and I'm starting to question - should I move? Or is something else the problem that I can fix while staying?
I love this town. I do. But I am starting to question whether it's been shooting me in the foot when it comes to job stability...I've been pushed into job changes every couple years or so for nearly my entire adult life, either because of a layoff or an office closing or some other not-my-fault reason... and the industry didn't seem to matter (the finance jobs were all "we're laying off 30 people and you're one" layoffs, the NGO was "the boss retired and your position is eliminated", the construction job was "we're closing the NYC office altogether", the tech job was a layoff). Even the job I would have followed to my grave got pulled out from under me in July. Sadly, this is not a job I can do remotely.
And I'm starting to sense that this instability is really messing with me. I hang onto apartments longer than I probably should because at least it's SOMETHING stable.
I'm in the middle of yet another damn job hunt right now; every time I go through this my parents and a couple friends ask if I'd consider moving somewhere, and I've always said no way, but now I'm wondering if maybe they're on to something. I REALLY would rather not; I love New York and always will. Leaving would break my heart. But I'm also starting to see what this constant change is doing to me and I'm wondering how to at least get the damn job situation to settle down. ....Unless this is just how the job market IS everywhere right now, and I should accept that?
I love this town. I do. But I am starting to question whether it's been shooting me in the foot when it comes to job stability...I've been pushed into job changes every couple years or so for nearly my entire adult life, either because of a layoff or an office closing or some other not-my-fault reason... and the industry didn't seem to matter (the finance jobs were all "we're laying off 30 people and you're one" layoffs, the NGO was "the boss retired and your position is eliminated", the construction job was "we're closing the NYC office altogether", the tech job was a layoff). Even the job I would have followed to my grave got pulled out from under me in July. Sadly, this is not a job I can do remotely.
And I'm starting to sense that this instability is really messing with me. I hang onto apartments longer than I probably should because at least it's SOMETHING stable.
I'm in the middle of yet another damn job hunt right now; every time I go through this my parents and a couple friends ask if I'd consider moving somewhere, and I've always said no way, but now I'm wondering if maybe they're on to something. I REALLY would rather not; I love New York and always will. Leaving would break my heart. But I'm also starting to see what this constant change is doing to me and I'm wondering how to at least get the damn job situation to settle down. ....Unless this is just how the job market IS everywhere right now, and I should accept that?
One of the founders of Major League Baseball and former president of the White Sox Stockings famously said "I'd rather be a lamppost in Chicago than a millionaire in any other city."
That's basically how I feel about living here. I have been very very broke and extremely unemployed in Chicago, and I stayed. (I have also been very comfortable and successful here, for my quiet little definition of success.) My city is the one stable constant and the true love of my life. I understand that may sound dramatic to people who don't feel Some Kind Of Way about where they live, but it's real. I will never leave here.
So I get it. I can't speak at all to New York, it is not for me and I don't understand its ways. But I certainly understand never wanting to leave a place.
That doesn't answer your question.
If some circumstance of job or life put me in a situation again where I would be forced to move away from Chicago or significantly lower my standard of living, I would choose every time to lower my standard of living. I genuinely believe that leaving Chicago would put me into a hole of depression so deep I'd never be able to climb out of it. So were I in your shoes I would seek out a remote tech support work role, something low prestige and ~$25/hr pay with nice boring case closure work for idiots who don't know how to reset their own passwords, and do that to feed and house myself until an opportunity for something better came along. (These roles are usually called things like tier 1 support, customer care, or help desk.)
posted by phunniemee at 5:00 AM on November 2, 2023 [9 favorites]
That's basically how I feel about living here. I have been very very broke and extremely unemployed in Chicago, and I stayed. (I have also been very comfortable and successful here, for my quiet little definition of success.) My city is the one stable constant and the true love of my life. I understand that may sound dramatic to people who don't feel Some Kind Of Way about where they live, but it's real. I will never leave here.
So I get it. I can't speak at all to New York, it is not for me and I don't understand its ways. But I certainly understand never wanting to leave a place.
That doesn't answer your question.
If some circumstance of job or life put me in a situation again where I would be forced to move away from Chicago or significantly lower my standard of living, I would choose every time to lower my standard of living. I genuinely believe that leaving Chicago would put me into a hole of depression so deep I'd never be able to climb out of it. So were I in your shoes I would seek out a remote tech support work role, something low prestige and ~$25/hr pay with nice boring case closure work for idiots who don't know how to reset their own passwords, and do that to feed and house myself until an opportunity for something better came along. (These roles are usually called things like tier 1 support, customer care, or help desk.)
posted by phunniemee at 5:00 AM on November 2, 2023 [9 favorites]
Best answer: Big picture, as long as you're thinking about staying in the US, NYC/NYS have some of the better labor laws out there. So I don't think you'll be better off elsewhere, especially if you're happy here except for the job instability. If you were to move to another country with labor laws that are designed to protect employees, that would be a different story!
My experience working here has been completely different than yours. I know exactly 1 person who's been laid off working in NYC over the past 20 years. Some of that is luck combined with privilege and some of it is that the work that I and a decent number of my friends/colleagues do is countercyclical, so our organizations are more in demand when the economy is bad (feel free to memail me if you'd like to discuss!). I'll also add an anecdote that my dad had the kind of job your family/friends are thinking about -- a good job in a boring industry in a suburban office park and he was let go after 30 years at his company. I don't think anyone in the US is truly safe in their jobs, so live where you'll be happy!
posted by snaw at 5:03 AM on November 2, 2023 [15 favorites]
My experience working here has been completely different than yours. I know exactly 1 person who's been laid off working in NYC over the past 20 years. Some of that is luck combined with privilege and some of it is that the work that I and a decent number of my friends/colleagues do is countercyclical, so our organizations are more in demand when the economy is bad (feel free to memail me if you'd like to discuss!). I'll also add an anecdote that my dad had the kind of job your family/friends are thinking about -- a good job in a boring industry in a suburban office park and he was let go after 30 years at his company. I don't think anyone in the US is truly safe in their jobs, so live where you'll be happy!
posted by snaw at 5:03 AM on November 2, 2023 [15 favorites]
I think the math is on the bubble if you're just talking job stability, and it depends what else matters to you.
But one of the factors we considered when we decided to leave LA was not so much our own job stability (irrelevant for me, likely workable for my partner) but the general facts of economic life in a major metropolitan area where the cost of real estate is a factor in overall employment instability - it's increasingly inaccessible to live where you work, and that includes not just hourly workers but entry- and junior-level white collar jobs. Companies with onsite workers are much quicker, I think, to lay off to decrease overhead in those environments. Just the general resulting enshittification - students living in their cars, independent restaurants can't operate at a loss for more than 10 minutes, every service employer claiming "staffing shortages" when they're actually just running short on purpose - was eating the shine off the city.
I can't speak to NYC but LA definitely has felt - since the pandemic - that smaller (and I mean anything smaller than megacorp) employers are going elsewhere or never even coming to LA in the first place.
As a thought exercise, though: how much extra would an experiment cost you, if you left NYC for a while and then came back? What if you expanded your job search to fully-remote (you're probably already doing that) and the areas where your friends and family are trying to lure you, just to see if something bites that you'd be willing to make a quick move for?
It's SO hard to say. In New York you're not facing the kind of glaringly obvious climate issues we were. I was having an increasingly hard time trying to imagine retiring in what's to come there. I'm also 51 and my peers and I are watching ourselves get aged out of our jobs because we're "too" expensive, and we realized a cost-of-living downgrade was probably going to be necessary to survival long-term. Is the New York of 20-30 years from now a place you think you want to be?
posted by Lyn Never at 5:26 AM on November 2, 2023 [2 favorites]
But one of the factors we considered when we decided to leave LA was not so much our own job stability (irrelevant for me, likely workable for my partner) but the general facts of economic life in a major metropolitan area where the cost of real estate is a factor in overall employment instability - it's increasingly inaccessible to live where you work, and that includes not just hourly workers but entry- and junior-level white collar jobs. Companies with onsite workers are much quicker, I think, to lay off to decrease overhead in those environments. Just the general resulting enshittification - students living in their cars, independent restaurants can't operate at a loss for more than 10 minutes, every service employer claiming "staffing shortages" when they're actually just running short on purpose - was eating the shine off the city.
I can't speak to NYC but LA definitely has felt - since the pandemic - that smaller (and I mean anything smaller than megacorp) employers are going elsewhere or never even coming to LA in the first place.
As a thought exercise, though: how much extra would an experiment cost you, if you left NYC for a while and then came back? What if you expanded your job search to fully-remote (you're probably already doing that) and the areas where your friends and family are trying to lure you, just to see if something bites that you'd be willing to make a quick move for?
It's SO hard to say. In New York you're not facing the kind of glaringly obvious climate issues we were. I was having an increasingly hard time trying to imagine retiring in what's to come there. I'm also 51 and my peers and I are watching ourselves get aged out of our jobs because we're "too" expensive, and we realized a cost-of-living downgrade was probably going to be necessary to survival long-term. Is the New York of 20-30 years from now a place you think you want to be?
posted by Lyn Never at 5:26 AM on November 2, 2023 [2 favorites]
Best answer: May I suggest that you look for a job in the stable world of unionized academia at CUNY or SUNY. The money won't be great, but the benefits and work/life balance will be. And layoffs are extremely unlikely. Feel free to message me if you'd like to chat about this direction.
posted by Pineapplicious at 5:32 AM on November 2, 2023 [17 favorites]
posted by Pineapplicious at 5:32 AM on November 2, 2023 [17 favorites]
Best answer: Yeah, I was going to say that if you're looking for job stability, finance and construction and NGOs are the wrong place to look. You should be looking first in government jobs in long-established agencies/units.
I assume there are good reasons why you haven't been looking there -- pay too low for what the job is, boring and stultifying environment at work, boring and stultifying work, etc. Or just that your employment history has been as different kinds of assistant-to-muckamuck and that kind of muckamuck doesn't exist in nearly the same numbers in gubmint. I will say that many of the key benefits of gubmint employment, like a good pension, will be lost on someone starting in their 50s unless you plan to stick it out until you're like 75.
It's up to you to weigh going through the civil service exam process or the politicking around city jobs and taking a job helping process applications to a state agency for the rest of your life, but in NYC, versus keeping your previous style of employment but in Albany or Scranton or Hartford.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 5:56 AM on November 2, 2023 [5 favorites]
I assume there are good reasons why you haven't been looking there -- pay too low for what the job is, boring and stultifying environment at work, boring and stultifying work, etc. Or just that your employment history has been as different kinds of assistant-to-muckamuck and that kind of muckamuck doesn't exist in nearly the same numbers in gubmint. I will say that many of the key benefits of gubmint employment, like a good pension, will be lost on someone starting in their 50s unless you plan to stick it out until you're like 75.
It's up to you to weigh going through the civil service exam process or the politicking around city jobs and taking a job helping process applications to a state agency for the rest of your life, but in NYC, versus keeping your previous style of employment but in Albany or Scranton or Hartford.
posted by GCU Sweet and Full of Grace at 5:56 AM on November 2, 2023 [5 favorites]
Response by poster: This is not threadsitting so much as it is an overwhelming outpouring of blubbering love for you all, because for each and every one of your comments so far I'm thinking "yes yes yes you get it". I typed this AskMe this morning, and spent the entire commute to work on the verge of tears at the thought of having to leave (shit, even leaving MY NEIGHBORHOOD IN BROOKLYN puts me in a funk, that's how much I love it); and so your answers are all a tremendous validation. I had a hunch that the job market sucks anywhere, and so if I did move, I'd just end up in the same shitty situation but also without being in New York to boot, and that depressed the shit out of me.
I may memail some of you later today when I'm not quite so emotional. THANK YOU, and please keep it coming.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:57 AM on November 2, 2023 [12 favorites]
I may memail some of you later today when I'm not quite so emotional. THANK YOU, and please keep it coming.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 5:57 AM on November 2, 2023 [12 favorites]
Have you been able to save for retirement?
posted by Dashy at 6:00 AM on November 2, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Dashy at 6:00 AM on November 2, 2023 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Oh, and since it's come up - yes, I HAVE applied for a job with the city, and in fact I'm hanging fire waiting to hear back from one right now. I had two interviews for a plum of a position and I was supposed to hear back mid-October but there's no word yet. I'd love to get a city job and would in fact be DELIGHTED with boring grunt work there, but I just didn't seem to see anything that would be open to people who weren't working for the city already. Unless I'm misunderstanding something about the process.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:00 AM on November 2, 2023
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:00 AM on November 2, 2023
Best answer: I don't think the job market is any more or less stable in NYC than in other places, but the complicating factor here is that New York is a hard place to be poor/financially unstable. The city just sucks money out of your wallet in astonishing ways. On top of that, it's just a hard place to live. Housing quality is worse there (I lived in New York for 17 years and never had in-unit laundry or central air, and exactly one apartment had a dishwasher. These sorts of creature comforts matter a lot more as you get older and creakier.) Food shopping is more complicated. It's noisy. It's crowded. I haven't set foot in New York in over a year, but I was not impressed at the state of the subway system the last time I was there. On and on and on.
If you have a good solid group of friends/network of support and a stable living situation in a neighborhood that you like, and the rest of the "New York" stuff isn't weighing on you, I wouldn't move just for job security, unless you are thinking of moving to, like, France. I don't know how old you are, but I had to start over in new cities twice in 4 years, at 34 and 37, and it fucking blows and is super hard.
posted by rhymedirective at 6:13 AM on November 2, 2023 [7 favorites]
If you have a good solid group of friends/network of support and a stable living situation in a neighborhood that you like, and the rest of the "New York" stuff isn't weighing on you, I wouldn't move just for job security, unless you are thinking of moving to, like, France. I don't know how old you are, but I had to start over in new cities twice in 4 years, at 34 and 37, and it fucking blows and is super hard.
posted by rhymedirective at 6:13 AM on November 2, 2023 [7 favorites]
Best answer: It may also be worth looking at jobs based in Albany with generous hybrid or fully-remote arrangements. I assume city jobs are more likely to be on-premise, but state jobs may well be quite flexible as long as you're residing in-state.
posted by Lyn Never at 6:17 AM on November 2, 2023
posted by Lyn Never at 6:17 AM on November 2, 2023
As well as jobs with the city, also look at Federal and state jobs based in NYC. For example, the IRS is enormous and so is always hiring, both federal and state courts are likely to have NYC locations in perpetuity. Many federal jobs are offered remotely.
Other fairly stable options include healthcare and hospitals and big public and private universities. Those are all going to exist in NYC for the forseeable future.
posted by plonkee at 6:54 AM on November 2, 2023 [4 favorites]
Other fairly stable options include healthcare and hospitals and big public and private universities. Those are all going to exist in NYC for the forseeable future.
posted by plonkee at 6:54 AM on November 2, 2023 [4 favorites]
First, it is kind of that way all over, particular in some of the fields you list off. But as was mentioned, NYC is famously expensive and difficult if you don't earn a lot. So, you would have a fairly complicated question of maybe having similar-ish stability, with higher quality of life in terms of say housing cost, and perhaps lower quality of life in terms of the density of cultural offerings, were you to move. From the outside, I will say that sometimes it seems like some people sacrifice a lot to live in a place like NYC without getting many of the benefits; in those cases, one wonders if relocation would be the smarter option.
I'm going to second the suggestion to look at public sector jobs (city, state, county, plus those huge public agencies like a metro transit administration. Maybe also the feds, but they have a particularly slow and painful hiring process). The hiring process at them is always slow and often quite opaque, but there are real benefits to making it through: great benefits, stability, work.life balance, sometimes also good salaries. Where I live and where I work (different places), the state governments in particular are really hurting for applicants, and this is a time like never before to be considered if you are a non-traditional applicant in some way.
From the people I know who have moved into state government jobs, they say that the key is getting the first job, even if it isn't perfect. Once you are in and through the evaluation period, it is then relatively easy to move to a different job or different agency as an internal candidate.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:57 AM on November 2, 2023 [1 favorite]
I'm going to second the suggestion to look at public sector jobs (city, state, county, plus those huge public agencies like a metro transit administration. Maybe also the feds, but they have a particularly slow and painful hiring process). The hiring process at them is always slow and often quite opaque, but there are real benefits to making it through: great benefits, stability, work.life balance, sometimes also good salaries. Where I live and where I work (different places), the state governments in particular are really hurting for applicants, and this is a time like never before to be considered if you are a non-traditional applicant in some way.
From the people I know who have moved into state government jobs, they say that the key is getting the first job, even if it isn't perfect. Once you are in and through the evaluation period, it is then relatively easy to move to a different job or different agency as an internal candidate.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:57 AM on November 2, 2023 [1 favorite]
Best answer: My friends who work in tech, consulting, finance, or biotech/pharma in Boston and other non NYC cities are frequently laid off. So I think this is an industry problem, not a NYC specific thing, however high rents in NYC certainly ratchet up the stress levels. Others have suggested sectors like government that are generally more stable, although also tend to be lower paying.
posted by emd3737 at 6:59 AM on November 2, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by emd3737 at 6:59 AM on November 2, 2023 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: Others have suggested sectors like government that are generally more stable, although also tend to be lower paying.
Yeah, that's been my biggest problem there.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:01 AM on November 2, 2023
Yeah, that's been my biggest problem there.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:01 AM on November 2, 2023
Best answer: I am not sure you get more stability if you leave a big city. In fact, I've always found some stability/security in the idea that the bigger the city, the more jobs there are. So if I happen to lose mine it feels a lot likelier to get a new one in a big city than a smaller one.
(That feeling may be influenced by what happened to my family - my dad worked as a senior engineer at a chemical company in Buffalo for 29 years, and then they decided to move the entire engineering department to Houston. My family, born and raised there, had to pick up and move across the country to someplace with a completely different climate, lifestyle, and culture because there just weren't senior engineering type jobs in Buffalo. It honestly sucked.)
Big city living is also expensive and exhausting. As I get older, the appeals of my big city (Chicago) have started to lose their luster, and the hassles feel bigger. I still love it here, but the idea of going somewhere smaller and quieter and easier gets more enticing every year. It's possible if I lost my job I might take that as a sign to start looking elsewhere.
But it doesn't sound like that's where you are right now! I think that you should follow your heart and stay in the city that energizes you and gives you the lifestyle you want, unless and until that's no longer what you want.
posted by misskaz at 7:21 AM on November 2, 2023 [5 favorites]
(That feeling may be influenced by what happened to my family - my dad worked as a senior engineer at a chemical company in Buffalo for 29 years, and then they decided to move the entire engineering department to Houston. My family, born and raised there, had to pick up and move across the country to someplace with a completely different climate, lifestyle, and culture because there just weren't senior engineering type jobs in Buffalo. It honestly sucked.)
Big city living is also expensive and exhausting. As I get older, the appeals of my big city (Chicago) have started to lose their luster, and the hassles feel bigger. I still love it here, but the idea of going somewhere smaller and quieter and easier gets more enticing every year. It's possible if I lost my job I might take that as a sign to start looking elsewhere.
But it doesn't sound like that's where you are right now! I think that you should follow your heart and stay in the city that energizes you and gives you the lifestyle you want, unless and until that's no longer what you want.
posted by misskaz at 7:21 AM on November 2, 2023 [5 favorites]
Yeah, I think you should stay but realign your expectations regarding what kind of jobs you will take. I mean, I think you're near my age (46) and that job pool is scary for women in that age range. Look for admin work in different fields--I can suggest healthcare as pretty stable and reliable, plus you might be part of a union!--but be prepared to not be paid as much as you should be for all the years of experience you have. You are not easily exploited, so I am finding--as I re-center my own internal work compass for new horizons--that a lot of places don't like it when you are very certain about your work needs and benefits.
Basically, look for something to keep the lights on until something worthwhile comes along.
posted by Kitteh at 8:10 AM on November 2, 2023 [2 favorites]
Basically, look for something to keep the lights on until something worthwhile comes along.
posted by Kitteh at 8:10 AM on November 2, 2023 [2 favorites]
The job market is rough and ageism exists everywhere, but NYC is such a ridiculously competitive place, I do think it is a little harder here. If you want to stay, I would look into doing whatever you can to level up your skills. Become a wizard at Excel or Airtable, something like that. The reality is that admin jobs are often the first on the chopping block, so it pays to develop some serious expertise in things your future workplace might use.
It also depends on where you would think about moving. Jobs might pay less elsewhere, but the cost of living here really is rough and I think the quality of life is pretty “meh” when you’re scraping by.
posted by cakelite at 8:11 AM on November 2, 2023 [4 favorites]
It also depends on where you would think about moving. Jobs might pay less elsewhere, but the cost of living here really is rough and I think the quality of life is pretty “meh” when you’re scraping by.
posted by cakelite at 8:11 AM on November 2, 2023 [4 favorites]
City jobs take forever to get approved but are totally worth it. It can often be more than 6 months for new hires after someone says yes to hiring them (they are trying to streamline this process now). If you can, take the civil service exam. There are many amazing union positions with good/ok pay and great benefits (administrative staff analyst is one that comes to mind). In the interim, working as a substitute teacher or a paraprofessional at your local school may also be a good option. Also consider checking with your local elected officials' offices (city council, state assemblyman). They often have positions for not a lot of money but good benefits and work/life balance.
posted by luckdragon at 9:37 AM on November 2, 2023
posted by luckdragon at 9:37 AM on November 2, 2023
I’m not in the US, not sure what the grant/loan/college system is like in NY, but if it’s not terrible, would it be possible to take a year or two to grab a professional skill set that would give you a little more insurance, and set you up not just for now but the future? For example where I live there’s a shortage of x Ray and MRI technicians. Healthcare isn’t everyone’s favourite but there’s less ageism than in other sectors. (Also, the insurance industry)
“Bright outlook occupations”: https://www.onetonline.org/find/bright?b=0
posted by cotton dress sock at 9:54 AM on November 2, 2023 [2 favorites]
“Bright outlook occupations”: https://www.onetonline.org/find/bright?b=0
posted by cotton dress sock at 9:54 AM on November 2, 2023 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I think I have inferred that your jobs have been admin/assistant-type jobs (sorry if I'm wrong about that), and, if that's the case, the idea that you'll be taking a big salary hit if you move to public-sector employment may be somewhat exaggerated, especially given that NYC, NY state, and NY-located federal jobs all generally offer pensions. You should be taking any state civil service exams that catch your eye and living on USAJobs. (And, yes, the city is notoriously slow about hiring and even more so under the present doofus administration...)
Someone else above beat me to saying that the stress of NYC living is not that the job market here is worse (some feast-or-famine professions are concentrated here, but I don't think you're in one of them), it's that the resources required to live a reasonably comfortable life here are greater. But, past a certain level, that's really a question of what's important to you! Some people get sick of living in shoebox apartments or want easier access to nature, some people want a slower pace or a different climate. But your post here, at least, doesn't express stifled longings for a different way of life--in fact, it sounds like you're very attached to how you live now--just for more job stability. And I don't think that's, on the whole, more easily obtained elsewhere.
posted by praemunire at 9:58 AM on November 2, 2023 [3 favorites]
Someone else above beat me to saying that the stress of NYC living is not that the job market here is worse (some feast-or-famine professions are concentrated here, but I don't think you're in one of them), it's that the resources required to live a reasonably comfortable life here are greater. But, past a certain level, that's really a question of what's important to you! Some people get sick of living in shoebox apartments or want easier access to nature, some people want a slower pace or a different climate. But your post here, at least, doesn't express stifled longings for a different way of life--in fact, it sounds like you're very attached to how you live now--just for more job stability. And I don't think that's, on the whole, more easily obtained elsewhere.
posted by praemunire at 9:58 AM on November 2, 2023 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: cowlick, if you're checking this again - CHECK YOUR MEMAIL!
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:19 AM on November 2, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 10:19 AM on November 2, 2023 [1 favorite]
(By the way, if you're not already in a RS apartment, I would recommend aggressively pursuing the NYC housing lottery (Housing Connect). The top income band, when it is offered on a development, caps out around $120K for one person, which as an admin you might fall into [again, sorry if I'm wrong]. There's often less competition in the higher bands because the process is more than a little of a PITA, but I think that a necessary foundation for a decent middle-class self-funded life in NYC is a RS apartment that you're reasonably satisfied with.)
posted by praemunire at 10:34 AM on November 2, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by praemunire at 10:34 AM on November 2, 2023 [3 favorites]
Best answer: I think that as a culture we are prone to catastrophically underestimating the value of people and places and HOME. I am so glad you're finding the validation you need on here. I hope you stay.
(PS: hmu if you want help finding a remote gig - I'm not an expert at job placements or anything but I've worked remote for many years now plus I know how to write a resume, happy to lend what support I can.)
posted by MiraK at 11:48 AM on November 2, 2023 [4 favorites]
(PS: hmu if you want help finding a remote gig - I'm not an expert at job placements or anything but I've worked remote for many years now plus I know how to write a resume, happy to lend what support I can.)
posted by MiraK at 11:48 AM on November 2, 2023 [4 favorites]
Response by poster: At the risk of threadsitting accusations, I wanted to respond to a question or two above and give an update:
This whole thing came to a head because of a perfect storm of shit-fuckery with my current (very tenuous) part-time temp gig, a couple of promising permanent leads that never manifested, and a temp-to-perm gig that forced my hand into telling my temp gig I may be leaving - and then ghosting me when i called to say "okay, I can do it, when do I start". (The current gig had been dithering about whether I could stay on for good, and when I asked my boss the status of that, he asked for a day to talk to the management - but little did I know he would also hire my own replacement, and she starts tomorrow.) Fortunately the way I panic is by applying to a whole bunch more jobs; one of which reached out to me this afternoon to schedule an interview already. I also had another possible longer-term temp gig on hold, and I called that agency to let them know what was happening and they are beating the bushes for me over there. Someone else from that same agency called me just now with YET ANOTHER contract opportunity - shorter-term, but still dealable - so in the past 48 hours I went from "a survival job, with two permanent possibilities and two fallback possibilities" to "nothing at all" to "a couple of promising contract options, and leads on another permanent placement." The current leads are all in education or government, to boot.
Upthread someone asked me if I had been able to start saving for retirement - and happily, I have. My last job paid well enough for me to completely eliminate my debt and start maxing out my IRA contribution. I put the maxed-out IRA contribution levels on hold for the past 2 months, but still have been able to contribute something, and have budgeted maxing my contribution out again once I get another gig. (All of the gigs I've been looking at now would allow me to do that.) I also currently have about 4 months' worth of expenses saved up in my emergency savings, and I haven't touched that this whole time, so I'm not TOTALLY going to be out on my ass.
I think I just realized that the persistent survival-mode stress was probably really weighing on me, and the only time I've ever truly been free of that was when I was in my last job. ....Although, I should add that this current temp agency worked WITH my last job; when I learned that they had, I told her that I might be the easiest placement she ever made with them if they had an EA opening ("you'd just need to tell them that 'we could send you EC' and they'd say 'soldl!").
But I'm definitely in a calmer place now, and I'm realizing that the problem was indeed not the place, it was where I'd been looking. We'll make those adjustments and see what develops. I've reached out to a couple of you in MeMail and will keep doing so now and then.
Thank you ALL.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:33 PM on November 2, 2023 [2 favorites]
This whole thing came to a head because of a perfect storm of shit-fuckery with my current (very tenuous) part-time temp gig, a couple of promising permanent leads that never manifested, and a temp-to-perm gig that forced my hand into telling my temp gig I may be leaving - and then ghosting me when i called to say "okay, I can do it, when do I start". (The current gig had been dithering about whether I could stay on for good, and when I asked my boss the status of that, he asked for a day to talk to the management - but little did I know he would also hire my own replacement, and she starts tomorrow.) Fortunately the way I panic is by applying to a whole bunch more jobs; one of which reached out to me this afternoon to schedule an interview already. I also had another possible longer-term temp gig on hold, and I called that agency to let them know what was happening and they are beating the bushes for me over there. Someone else from that same agency called me just now with YET ANOTHER contract opportunity - shorter-term, but still dealable - so in the past 48 hours I went from "a survival job, with two permanent possibilities and two fallback possibilities" to "nothing at all" to "a couple of promising contract options, and leads on another permanent placement." The current leads are all in education or government, to boot.
Upthread someone asked me if I had been able to start saving for retirement - and happily, I have. My last job paid well enough for me to completely eliminate my debt and start maxing out my IRA contribution. I put the maxed-out IRA contribution levels on hold for the past 2 months, but still have been able to contribute something, and have budgeted maxing my contribution out again once I get another gig. (All of the gigs I've been looking at now would allow me to do that.) I also currently have about 4 months' worth of expenses saved up in my emergency savings, and I haven't touched that this whole time, so I'm not TOTALLY going to be out on my ass.
I think I just realized that the persistent survival-mode stress was probably really weighing on me, and the only time I've ever truly been free of that was when I was in my last job. ....Although, I should add that this current temp agency worked WITH my last job; when I learned that they had, I told her that I might be the easiest placement she ever made with them if they had an EA opening ("you'd just need to tell them that 'we could send you EC' and they'd say 'soldl!").
But I'm definitely in a calmer place now, and I'm realizing that the problem was indeed not the place, it was where I'd been looking. We'll make those adjustments and see what develops. I've reached out to a couple of you in MeMail and will keep doing so now and then.
Thank you ALL.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:33 PM on November 2, 2023 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I am clinging--CLINGING--to the city I live in even though it no longer wants people like me, so I get it, I really do. In your position I'd be trying to stay.
The one thing that I'd really suggest here is a longer-term approach to civil service jobs. Like in general, if you land a civil service job it may be up to 24 months after the time you apply for it. And you should just apply for every city and borough and county and water board job that you are qualified for, take those tests (the practice helps), get on those civil service lists, consider the lower paying job if you need to because it's all time spent vesting in your pension and you can promote after a year.
I can't overemphasize this: make it part of your week or month that you are applying for jobs all across the spectrum. There are usually e-lists you can sign up for that give you notice when a civil service exam opens.
A lot of times the way these lists work is that someone at a random department is canvassing them a month before they expire, 11 months after they are created, half the names on the list are no longer looking for a job or not responding to email because it's filtered to spam or whatever, and suddenly boom, Empress C is the first name on the list and is coming down to the housing department for a job interview, forever and ever after she forgot that she even took the civil service exam.
I guess what I'm saying is that (1) I think living where you love is a quality of life issue, (2) I'm glad you're interested in civil service work, because that is super stable work to a fault, and (3) it's may be the case that your next job is not the stable civil service job, but that the one after might be if you keep doing the work!
posted by kensington314 at 12:39 PM on November 2, 2023 [3 favorites]
The one thing that I'd really suggest here is a longer-term approach to civil service jobs. Like in general, if you land a civil service job it may be up to 24 months after the time you apply for it. And you should just apply for every city and borough and county and water board job that you are qualified for, take those tests (the practice helps), get on those civil service lists, consider the lower paying job if you need to because it's all time spent vesting in your pension and you can promote after a year.
I can't overemphasize this: make it part of your week or month that you are applying for jobs all across the spectrum. There are usually e-lists you can sign up for that give you notice when a civil service exam opens.
A lot of times the way these lists work is that someone at a random department is canvassing them a month before they expire, 11 months after they are created, half the names on the list are no longer looking for a job or not responding to email because it's filtered to spam or whatever, and suddenly boom, Empress C is the first name on the list and is coming down to the housing department for a job interview, forever and ever after she forgot that she even took the civil service exam.
I guess what I'm saying is that (1) I think living where you love is a quality of life issue, (2) I'm glad you're interested in civil service work, because that is super stable work to a fault, and (3) it's may be the case that your next job is not the stable civil service job, but that the one after might be if you keep doing the work!
posted by kensington314 at 12:39 PM on November 2, 2023 [3 favorites]
The current gig had been dithering about whether I could stay on for good, and when I asked my boss the status of that, he asked for a day to talk to the management - but little did I know he would also hire my own replacement, and she starts tomorrow.)
BTW, if I'm remembering the sequence of events correctly...screw those guys for stringing you along!
posted by praemunire at 1:48 PM on November 2, 2023 [6 favorites]
BTW, if I'm remembering the sequence of events correctly...screw those guys for stringing you along!
posted by praemunire at 1:48 PM on November 2, 2023 [6 favorites]
I have a lot of family in NYC and lived/studied there off and on from the mid-80s through early 2000s. I've seen NYC in good times and bad - graffitied subways, porno in Times Square, Soho pre-mall era, Williamsburg pre-hipsters, had dinner at Windows on the World, rode horses in Central Park, been evacuated off a subway train, etc.
I have also had the good fortune (depending on perspective) of living/working/studying in a lot of different cities around the U.S. and you know what...there are other awesome cities out there. Cities with great museums, music scenes, way better access to nature, interesting people, good politics, worker/renter protections, awesome food, diverse cultures.
When I go back to NYC now to visit family and friends I think back fondly of my time in NYC and then think, I'm glad I don't live here now or this wouldn't be the right fit for me for where I am now.
I will say that it can be hard to move to a new city and establish a core group of friends and it takes longer to get connected when you're older, but it's not impossible. That's probably the thing that would give me the greatest pause in moving.
I work in local govt. now and happy to answer questions via memail about what it's like.
posted by brookeb at 4:41 PM on November 2, 2023 [3 favorites]
I have also had the good fortune (depending on perspective) of living/working/studying in a lot of different cities around the U.S. and you know what...there are other awesome cities out there. Cities with great museums, music scenes, way better access to nature, interesting people, good politics, worker/renter protections, awesome food, diverse cultures.
When I go back to NYC now to visit family and friends I think back fondly of my time in NYC and then think, I'm glad I don't live here now or this wouldn't be the right fit for me for where I am now.
I will say that it can be hard to move to a new city and establish a core group of friends and it takes longer to get connected when you're older, but it's not impossible. That's probably the thing that would give me the greatest pause in moving.
I work in local govt. now and happy to answer questions via memail about what it's like.
posted by brookeb at 4:41 PM on November 2, 2023 [3 favorites]
I hope you're still checking this! I lived in NYC for 14 years and absolutely hated to leave it (I didn't get into one of the fancy NYC med schools). Then after residency I wanted to move back (making research money, NOT doctor money). But my boyfriend is in New Haven, so here I am. I tell myself, which is true, that of course I could survive in New York on research money, but every dollar out of my paycheck would already be spent as soon as the direct deposit hit my account--it would already have its destination, like rent, food, etc. In New Haven I was able to buy a market-rate apartment, and if I want to buy a book for $14 on the internet, I can just go ahead and buy it.
All this is to say: stay in the city if you can, but there are definitely advantages to moving.
I think they have a new affordable housing portal that makes things easier to navigate, but if you need help figuring out the applications for Mitchell-Lama housing (middle-income co-ops), just memail me.
Stay strong!
posted by 8603 at 4:05 AM on November 7, 2023
All this is to say: stay in the city if you can, but there are definitely advantages to moving.
I think they have a new affordable housing portal that makes things easier to navigate, but if you need help figuring out the applications for Mitchell-Lama housing (middle-income co-ops), just memail me.
Stay strong!
posted by 8603 at 4:05 AM on November 7, 2023
Response by poster: A very belated update:
* November 22nd was my last day at the temp job I'd been working in. However - two hours after I got that news, I got a call from an actress I'd worked with 20 years ago who was stuck and neede a stage manager - and my being done with the temp job meant I could take that. Score 1 for "I have a contact in NYC that manifested to bring me some work."
* While I was in rehearsals in December, I still had to occasionally apply for more jobs - and one of them manifested into a very promising lead mid-December. And then, in January, as I was in the subway on my way to the opening night of the play - I got a job offer, with an NYC based social work enterprise that REALLY screens its staff well because they do not hire OR fire people lightly. Score 2 for "NYC contacts" and one for "job stability". The starting salary is about what I started my last job with, too.
* The new job has me busy as a one-legged gal in an ass-kicking contest, and I've been reaching out to friends to cope with stress. One encouraged me to look into trying acupuncture - and that reminded me that hey, I met this really cute dude at a concert last year who's an acupuncturist. I followed up and he's going to give me an appointment next month. Score 3 for "NYC contacts".
* Another conversation with friends prompted me to try to track down a guy I'd dated briefly and then lost touch with - and I FOUND him this time. He is partnered now (aw darn) but is also happily living in a Brooklyn neighborhood that would be an option if I got priced out of where I am now (huh!). Score 3 for "NYC contacts" and score 1 for "possible people I know if I have to leave my neighborhood".
In short - New York has been proving to me that it wants me to stick around after all.
Thank you for listening.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 2:19 PM on March 8 [2 favorites]
* November 22nd was my last day at the temp job I'd been working in. However - two hours after I got that news, I got a call from an actress I'd worked with 20 years ago who was stuck and neede a stage manager - and my being done with the temp job meant I could take that. Score 1 for "I have a contact in NYC that manifested to bring me some work."
* While I was in rehearsals in December, I still had to occasionally apply for more jobs - and one of them manifested into a very promising lead mid-December. And then, in January, as I was in the subway on my way to the opening night of the play - I got a job offer, with an NYC based social work enterprise that REALLY screens its staff well because they do not hire OR fire people lightly. Score 2 for "NYC contacts" and one for "job stability". The starting salary is about what I started my last job with, too.
* The new job has me busy as a one-legged gal in an ass-kicking contest, and I've been reaching out to friends to cope with stress. One encouraged me to look into trying acupuncture - and that reminded me that hey, I met this really cute dude at a concert last year who's an acupuncturist. I followed up and he's going to give me an appointment next month. Score 3 for "NYC contacts".
* Another conversation with friends prompted me to try to track down a guy I'd dated briefly and then lost touch with - and I FOUND him this time. He is partnered now (aw darn) but is also happily living in a Brooklyn neighborhood that would be an option if I got priced out of where I am now (huh!). Score 3 for "NYC contacts" and score 1 for "possible people I know if I have to leave my neighborhood".
In short - New York has been proving to me that it wants me to stick around after all.
Thank you for listening.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 2:19 PM on March 8 [2 favorites]
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posted by limeonaire at 4:32 AM on November 2, 2023 [4 favorites]