Vibe Checking Minneapolis-Saint Paul
September 11, 2023 1:50 PM
Hey all! The question title about sums it up. I'd like to take a working vacation for a week to get the city's general vibe, at some point between October and February (excluding the Thanksgiving/Christmas/New Year peak travel times) What should I do while I'm in town? Also includes St. Paul.
On this trip, I'm going to be visiting to see if I want to move there. I've heard it described as the Portland of the Midwest, but as this is not the only Portland of the Midwest I want to verify if that's true or not ahead of a possible move next year to... somewhere that isn't Portland, OR.
- Where should I stay? I had been looking at a hotel in the Minneapolis University Area. Is there a better home base area however? I will be working from my hotel room during the day for what it's worth, albeit with the occasional daytime jaunt.
- I will have a car. If I'm just driving around looking at neighborhoods, where should I go?
- Conversely are there places I should avoid? I'm assuming there's not going to be Detroit levels of "don't go there" (and Detroit was lovely when I visited last year btw!) but as this is a fact finding mission for a potential move... this would be good to know.
-What are the middle class neighborhoods with decent diversity and decent schools? The biggest complaint we have about our current location, other than property prices, is the lack of diversity, and we'd like to have a decent amount of racial/cultural diversity in the area without gentrifying too much.
- Perhaps most immediately important, what should a lone, obviously gender non-conforming introvert person do for fun in the evenings or on the weekends other than the main tourist draws?
Also please note that I have read through previous Asks/done my own research. Just asking some new questions here as my questions are more focused on area research in a residential sense rather than sightseeing.
On this trip, I'm going to be visiting to see if I want to move there. I've heard it described as the Portland of the Midwest, but as this is not the only Portland of the Midwest I want to verify if that's true or not ahead of a possible move next year to... somewhere that isn't Portland, OR.
- Where should I stay? I had been looking at a hotel in the Minneapolis University Area. Is there a better home base area however? I will be working from my hotel room during the day for what it's worth, albeit with the occasional daytime jaunt.
- I will have a car. If I'm just driving around looking at neighborhoods, where should I go?
- Conversely are there places I should avoid? I'm assuming there's not going to be Detroit levels of "don't go there" (and Detroit was lovely when I visited last year btw!) but as this is a fact finding mission for a potential move... this would be good to know.
-What are the middle class neighborhoods with decent diversity and decent schools? The biggest complaint we have about our current location, other than property prices, is the lack of diversity, and we'd like to have a decent amount of racial/cultural diversity in the area without gentrifying too much.
- Perhaps most immediately important, what should a lone, obviously gender non-conforming introvert person do for fun in the evenings or on the weekends other than the main tourist draws?
Also please note that I have read through previous Asks/done my own research. Just asking some new questions here as my questions are more focused on area research in a residential sense rather than sightseeing.
Lol at "Portland of the Midwest." I love the Twin Cities but this is not a description that would ever come to mind for me. "Smaller, more self-satisfied Chicago," maybe.
Minneapolis is also a pretty segregated city; the "middle class," "safe," neighborhoods are also pretty white, to a surprising degree if you're used to places like DC, for example. That said, if you're looking for diversity, try the less middle-class neighborhoods. The northside in Minneapolis has some wonderful places (check out Homewood if you want gorgeous, big, park-adjacent houses at prices waaaaay less than anywhere with similar housing stock). The North End in Saint Paul is cheap AF, very diverse, and also a little rough and tumble sometimes (get some Mama's Pizza!). Lake Phalen still has semi-affordable lakeshore, and is strongly worth a visit for a vibe check you won't get in Minneapolis (look for the friendship garden and from there walk around the lake; you might walk around Como Lake, too). The cool thing about Saint Paul is a lot of the neighborhoods are very compact and walkable.
Spend some time with the mighty Mississippi; Stone Arch Bridge, Mill Ruins Park, Raspberry Island. Go visit Bdote and learn about one of the most culturally significant places in North America. Have dinner at Owamni, or, if you can't get in, the food truck parked out front. Go to Midtown Market and the Indigenous Food Lab. Make a pilgrimage to George Floyd Square.
Go to Public Functionary for an event to get a quick taste of the Northeast Arts District. A lot of artsy, middle class, white folks live in NE. It's more expensive, more gentrified, and more crowded than it used to be.
Avoid Uptown, Linden Hills, and really the whole Minneapolis Chain of Lakes except maayyybe Nokomis. Expensive, super crowded, and Uptown is mostly just sad now. Walk around in downtown Saint Paul on a Saturday evening; get pizza from the window at Wrestaurant, see a show at the Palace, get oysters or whatever bougie thing at Meritage and walk around Rice Park.
The Twin Cities can be great! I hope you love it here!
posted by shadygrove at 7:12 PM on September 11, 2023
Minneapolis is also a pretty segregated city; the "middle class," "safe," neighborhoods are also pretty white, to a surprising degree if you're used to places like DC, for example. That said, if you're looking for diversity, try the less middle-class neighborhoods. The northside in Minneapolis has some wonderful places (check out Homewood if you want gorgeous, big, park-adjacent houses at prices waaaaay less than anywhere with similar housing stock). The North End in Saint Paul is cheap AF, very diverse, and also a little rough and tumble sometimes (get some Mama's Pizza!). Lake Phalen still has semi-affordable lakeshore, and is strongly worth a visit for a vibe check you won't get in Minneapolis (look for the friendship garden and from there walk around the lake; you might walk around Como Lake, too). The cool thing about Saint Paul is a lot of the neighborhoods are very compact and walkable.
Spend some time with the mighty Mississippi; Stone Arch Bridge, Mill Ruins Park, Raspberry Island. Go visit Bdote and learn about one of the most culturally significant places in North America. Have dinner at Owamni, or, if you can't get in, the food truck parked out front. Go to Midtown Market and the Indigenous Food Lab. Make a pilgrimage to George Floyd Square.
Go to Public Functionary for an event to get a quick taste of the Northeast Arts District. A lot of artsy, middle class, white folks live in NE. It's more expensive, more gentrified, and more crowded than it used to be.
Avoid Uptown, Linden Hills, and really the whole Minneapolis Chain of Lakes except maayyybe Nokomis. Expensive, super crowded, and Uptown is mostly just sad now. Walk around in downtown Saint Paul on a Saturday evening; get pizza from the window at Wrestaurant, see a show at the Palace, get oysters or whatever bougie thing at Meritage and walk around Rice Park.
The Twin Cities can be great! I hope you love it here!
posted by shadygrove at 7:12 PM on September 11, 2023
The neighborhood around Twin Cities Maker was pretty cool.
posted by amtho at 9:25 PM on September 11, 2023
posted by amtho at 9:25 PM on September 11, 2023
I've enjoyed visiting Portland OR, but not entirely sure what makes a place a Portland of the Midwest. I suppose both have highly regarded bike scenes, good food, and a lot of white folks.
Are there great diverse neighborhoods you can move to without gentrifying it too much? Somewhat, but neighborhoods with fewer white residents yet retain some walkability and things to do are gentrifying/have gentrified. That's slowed down with prices and interest rates up along with the long slog of this economy.
I really like Powderhorn, Whittier, and East Lake neighborhoods n Minneapolis for that. There are some gems in St. Paul, but I don't spend that much time over there, so I'm not the one to ask.
If you have specific interests, we might be able to point you to shops or communities that cater to that. I know a lot of fiber artist, makers, outdoorsy folks, gamers, and probably more communities that I can't think of top of mind right now.
Some places to check out.
Moon Palace is an amazing queer book store on Lake Street, right by the remains of the Third Precinct. Pre pandemic they had a great pizza cafe and a lot more meetings/events. I hope that returns some day. They do a great job of facing a lot of books that really hit for me. I usually leave with a book I've never heard of that I'm delighted with.
Modern Times is a great place to grab breakfast and get a feel for what Powderhorn is really all about.
Reverie is a vegan cafe that could really stop people from making fun of vegans. I love that place.
Eat Street is a little strip of Nicollet Ave that was cut off when they built a K-Mart that blocked the main street and caused rents to plummet. For years, it was a place of cheat eats because of that. It's a little gentrified now, but still retains a lot of that great character.
I really enjoy the Chain of Lakes for a nice little stroll. We live by Lake Nokomis and often walk down Minnehaha Creek to Minnehaha Falls and the Mississippi. There's good access to human powered boating and powerboats are banned on these lakes.
posted by advicepig at 6:54 AM on September 12, 2023
Are there great diverse neighborhoods you can move to without gentrifying it too much? Somewhat, but neighborhoods with fewer white residents yet retain some walkability and things to do are gentrifying/have gentrified. That's slowed down with prices and interest rates up along with the long slog of this economy.
I really like Powderhorn, Whittier, and East Lake neighborhoods n Minneapolis for that. There are some gems in St. Paul, but I don't spend that much time over there, so I'm not the one to ask.
If you have specific interests, we might be able to point you to shops or communities that cater to that. I know a lot of fiber artist, makers, outdoorsy folks, gamers, and probably more communities that I can't think of top of mind right now.
Some places to check out.
Moon Palace is an amazing queer book store on Lake Street, right by the remains of the Third Precinct. Pre pandemic they had a great pizza cafe and a lot more meetings/events. I hope that returns some day. They do a great job of facing a lot of books that really hit for me. I usually leave with a book I've never heard of that I'm delighted with.
Modern Times is a great place to grab breakfast and get a feel for what Powderhorn is really all about.
Reverie is a vegan cafe that could really stop people from making fun of vegans. I love that place.
Eat Street is a little strip of Nicollet Ave that was cut off when they built a K-Mart that blocked the main street and caused rents to plummet. For years, it was a place of cheat eats because of that. It's a little gentrified now, but still retains a lot of that great character.
I really enjoy the Chain of Lakes for a nice little stroll. We live by Lake Nokomis and often walk down Minnehaha Creek to Minnehaha Falls and the Mississippi. There's good access to human powered boating and powerboats are banned on these lakes.
posted by advicepig at 6:54 AM on September 12, 2023
At this point, I think any relatively liberal city that is doing well for itself is getting described as a Portland of the Midwest, by people who haven't actually been to Portland all that often.
Anyway! Specific interests... hm. Well, I'm a nerd in a family of nerds, so if there are any particularly impressive game stores that's a plus. Interesting restaurants are also up my alley; keep 'em coming! Also interesting craft/hobby/costume shops, bookstores, etc. - I probably won't be buying anything, but knowing where they are is always a plus.
Oh! I also forgot to ask one very pertinent question. Are there any schools/districts that would be better for a middle schooler with a very unique style who's in need of an IEP? Nothing major, just some accommodations for ADHD, but I know that this can vary.
posted by daikaisho at 7:23 AM on September 12, 2023
Anyway! Specific interests... hm. Well, I'm a nerd in a family of nerds, so if there are any particularly impressive game stores that's a plus. Interesting restaurants are also up my alley; keep 'em coming! Also interesting craft/hobby/costume shops, bookstores, etc. - I probably won't be buying anything, but knowing where they are is always a plus.
Oh! I also forgot to ask one very pertinent question. Are there any schools/districts that would be better for a middle schooler with a very unique style who's in need of an IEP? Nothing major, just some accommodations for ADHD, but I know that this can vary.
posted by daikaisho at 7:23 AM on September 12, 2023
My wife and I just got back from a similar vibe-scouting trip last month, so I'll be watching this thread with interest. We really loved the Whittier area, as well as the Longfellow/Standish/Powderhorn area.
I'm sure others will have a lot to add about more specific neighborhood feel, but I did want to chime in with some special-interest places. For food, Victor's 1959 Cafe was my absolute favorite. Just incredible. For books, Boneshaker is a volunteer-run radical bookstore, and Dreamhaven is all scifi/fantasy/horror, used and new. As a huge nerd, we hit basically every game store in the area and the highlights I think were Source Comics & Games (technically in Roseville, it's HUGE and incredible) and Dreamer's Vault (several locations, we went to the one on Hiawatha).
posted by specialagentwebb at 9:36 AM on September 12, 2023
I'm sure others will have a lot to add about more specific neighborhood feel, but I did want to chime in with some special-interest places. For food, Victor's 1959 Cafe was my absolute favorite. Just incredible. For books, Boneshaker is a volunteer-run radical bookstore, and Dreamhaven is all scifi/fantasy/horror, used and new. As a huge nerd, we hit basically every game store in the area and the highlights I think were Source Comics & Games (technically in Roseville, it's HUGE and incredible) and Dreamer's Vault (several locations, we went to the one on Hiawatha).
posted by specialagentwebb at 9:36 AM on September 12, 2023
Minnesota Report Card provides the official state evaluations for schools and districts. Generally speaking there has been a dip in all scores due to Covid so expect that. The public school system there is generally high functioning for metrics like college enrollment, but boasting about the local school is an acceptable flex in the Midwest.
What should be less acceptable is how the lakes are all piss and pesticide in the whole southern half of the state and they still boast about. So gross. AND THEY DRINK THAT STUFF. They’ll serve it to you in your coffee. So ask if the lake has been tested. Or check a map.
posted by zenon at 10:04 AM on September 12, 2023
What should be less acceptable is how the lakes are all piss and pesticide in the whole southern half of the state and they still boast about. So gross. AND THEY DRINK THAT STUFF. They’ll serve it to you in your coffee. So ask if the lake has been tested. Or check a map.
posted by zenon at 10:04 AM on September 12, 2023
If you eat one meal in MSP, make it here:
https://www.quang-restaurant.com/
If you're shopping for a place to live, start with deciding what kind of a transportation lifestyle you'll lead. Public transit is quite variable across the cities so if you want to live a walk-and-ride life you'll be limited to a few areas.
I lived in Whittier, Minneapolis for many years (up until a few months ago) and it's a good compromise between car + bus living but if I move back to the city I'll likely look somewhere denser.
posted by eraserbones at 1:24 PM on September 12, 2023
https://www.quang-restaurant.com/
If you're shopping for a place to live, start with deciding what kind of a transportation lifestyle you'll lead. Public transit is quite variable across the cities so if you want to live a walk-and-ride life you'll be limited to a few areas.
I lived in Whittier, Minneapolis for many years (up until a few months ago) and it's a good compromise between car + bus living but if I move back to the city I'll likely look somewhere denser.
posted by eraserbones at 1:24 PM on September 12, 2023
Seconding the Quang recommendation if you're in Mpls; if you want good Vietnamese in St. Paul, I recommend Trieu Chau, which is a hole in the wall but absolutely delicious.
Two bookstores I can recommend in St. Paul: Red Balloon (which is a darling children's bookstore but carries/will order adult titles) and Black Garnet Books (which is owned by, and specializes in, books by BIPOC authors).
My nephew is in middle school, has ADHD, and attends a particular St. Paul Public School that's been a great fit for him -- aimed at kids who need a different type of learning environment. You're welcome to message me for more info!
posted by leftover_scrabble_rack at 3:32 PM on September 12, 2023
Two bookstores I can recommend in St. Paul: Red Balloon (which is a darling children's bookstore but carries/will order adult titles) and Black Garnet Books (which is owned by, and specializes in, books by BIPOC authors).
My nephew is in middle school, has ADHD, and attends a particular St. Paul Public School that's been a great fit for him -- aimed at kids who need a different type of learning environment. You're welcome to message me for more info!
posted by leftover_scrabble_rack at 3:32 PM on September 12, 2023
eraserbones, that's a good callout re: transportation. I WFH full time; my spouse will either WFH or commute to a nearby school. The child will take a bus.
posted by daikaisho at 7:13 AM on September 13, 2023
posted by daikaisho at 7:13 AM on September 13, 2023
This thread is closed to new comments.
Ill start at the top:
Hotel
- Hewing is one of the nicest overall with a rooftop hot tub and sauna
- Ivy is cool too as are a number of downtown hotels
- University has the Radisson but in general you'll find better hotels downtown and better yet near the loop area (the residence inn, in the north loop would be a good option)(
Car
- Drive along the river to get aquainted, all the way to saint paul on both sides... its really beautiful that time of year
- Consider a trek out of town to the st. croix river valley/stillwater/hudson or Afton and see the countryside within and hour drive
- A simple drive around the lakes chain is a must as well
- There are no, no-go zones in minneapolis per se ... but be safe downtown, uptown, lake street, west broadway at night
Middle class nieghborhoods
- there are many, too many for this thread actually but look at North East Minneapolis (where I own a home and many friends do), south minneapolis (especially near the river) and if you could afford it: by the lakes in minneapolis or highland in st. paul
- falcon heights is also cool if you are involved with the university
Evenings:
- so much good stuff
- live music at the many many bars and clubs (way more than most cities)
- all sorts of good stuff happening at the Walker Art Center each week
- guthrie theater (another must)
- the minnesota arboretum
- a twins game (for sure!)
- art and gallery openings
posted by specialk420 at 2:55 PM on September 11, 2023