What would it take to get you to watch pro-wrestling this week?

August 26, 2023 5:37 PM

I'm quite serious. The next nine days are going to have some of the most highly-anticipated professional wrestling events of the past twenty years. #metafilterfundraiser2023 #chatfilter

Are you someone who used to watch wrestling, and now doesn't, and could possibly be convinced to start again? Have you never watched wrestling, and you're willing to be convinced why All In 2023, which has sold out Wembley Stadium for tomorrow's show, is incredibly important? And then a week later it'll be All Out at the United Center in Chicago? Ever wanted to see grown-up drama kids emote for their lives enacting the primal drama of vulnerable bodies with unflinching hearts? Do you think you might enjoy the spectacle of big meaty men slapping meat?

posted by The Pluto Gangsta to Media & Arts (40 answers total)

Just to be clear about the density of the schedule for the next few days:

August 27: AEW Presents All In 2023 from Wembley Stadium -- 6PM UK time, 1PM Eastern US, 10AM Pacific US, with the free Zero Hour pre-show starting one hour earlier.
August 28: WWE Monday Night Raw - regularly scheduled TV
August 30: AEW Dynamite - regularly scheduled TV
August 31: Ring Of Honor - regularly scheduled on ROH Honor Club
September 1: AEW Rampage, also WWE Smackdown - regularly scheduled TV
September 2: AEW Collision - regularly scheduled TV, also WWE Payback (8PM Eastern)
September 3: AEW All Out -- 8PM Eastern US
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 6:34 PM on August 26, 2023

Ok, so is this like Marvel where unless I watched a Netflix show 6 years earlier I'm not gonna know why everyone lost their minds in excitement when Peter Parker got a lawyer named Matt in the MCU film No Way Home?


or can I just hop in?
posted by Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug at 6:45 PM on August 26, 2023

I suspect I'd need cable. Or a streaming service I don't have.
posted by hoyland at 6:49 PM on August 26, 2023

I'm quite serious

I mean, are you really? Because by tomorrow seems an insultingly small period of time for pro wrestling to come to a reckoning with its history of labour abuses.
posted by juv3nal at 7:04 PM on August 26, 2023

As a vegetarian and feminist, I don't have much use for meaty men slapping meat.
posted by mermaidcafe at 7:19 PM on August 26, 2023

@NSAID: You can hop in! If you want a Cliff's Notes, the Wikipedia entry for All In explains the storylines, but good pro-wrestlers -- and these are some very good wrestlers -- will tell the story through the physicality inside and outside of the ring. There will also be some video packages in between matches.

@hoyland: To watch All In or All Out, you only need a credit card. There are multiple watching options depending on where you live (or if you have a VPN to pretend you live elsewhere, wink wink)

@ juv3nal: Your recollections are correct, pro-wrestling has an exploitive history, as do many other "real" sports and forms of entertainment. Some of the reasons All Elite Wrestling (which is only about five years old as a company) does better by their talent is because (a) three of the Exec VPs are themselves wrestlers with the company, (b) the president of the company is a long-time fan of the art form (his presence in wrestling superfan websites can be reliably traced back to the 90s), and (c) for a lot of the talent, they get to pitch their own storyline ideas to a much more receptive creative team.

@mermaidcafe: It's true that one of the downsides of both WWE and AEW is that neither gives their women's roster equal time. This could be it's own post, but some prominent women's wrestling indie promotions in the U.S. include Women of Wrestling (based out of Los Angeles, owned by Jeanie Buss, who owns the Lakers) and Mission Pro Wrestling (based in Texas, owned by wrestler Thunder Rosa). Japan also has excellent women's "joshi" promotions: two that come to mind are Stardom and Tokyo Joshi Pro-Wrestling. Two other promotions that went out of business during the pandemic were Shimmer Wrestling and Shine Wrestling, but their video libraries are still available.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 7:51 PM on August 26, 2023

I have never watched pro wrestling but I did listen to The Mountain Goats' album about it. What would it take to convince me to watch stuff happening soon?

Let's see! Some possibilities:

* feminists I know via Dreamwidth or Tumblr or WisCon telling me this is surprisingly interesting and urging me to try it out (this is how I was persuaded to try Hamilton, Mad Max: Fury Road, and Magic Mike XXL)
* a free "the story so far" summary video that is engaging on its own and helps me get caught up so I can enjoy the current story (this is how I got ramped up to start watching Battlestar Galactica partway through the show)
* free access, or cheap and easy to buy single-transaction access
* good fanfic or fanvids (this is how I started watching the Marvel Cinematic Universe)
posted by brainwane at 7:53 PM on August 26, 2023

I have just realized another thing that would help me a lot: solid, credible reassurance that all the people I am seeing are actually physically ok and are not going to actually get hurt. That I don't have to worry that I am watching people get seriously injured.
posted by brainwane at 7:56 PM on August 26, 2023

What would it take to get you to watch pro-wrestling this week?

There really isn’t a way in hell you could get me to watch. I honestly cannot understand the appeal.
posted by Thorzdad at 8:02 PM on August 26, 2023

Casting zero aspersions on AEW, to your point (b) iirc wrestlers also being executives has not prevented abuses at another promotion. I don't think I'm wrong about that.
posted by juv3nal at 8:10 PM on August 26, 2023

Does watching Heels this week count? It's been making a passable effort at being to wrestling what the Friday Night Lights series was for football. I watch neither wrestling nor football, but evidently can become surprisingly engaged with stories centered around them.
posted by Pryde at 8:22 PM on August 26, 2023

oops that should have been (a) instead of (b)
posted by juv3nal at 8:22 PM on August 26, 2023

Heels is great! Even though Stephen Amell is primarily an actor, he's actually a wrestling fan himself, winning a tag match in WWE in 2015, and taking a loss to Ring Of Honor stalwart Christopher Daniels at the original All In back in 2018.

In fact, Ricky Rabies on Heels is played by CM Punk, who'll be a headliner at All In tomorrow, and Elle Dorado is played by his wife, former WWE star AJ Mendez. Way to bring everything full circle!
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 8:36 PM on August 26, 2023

@brainwane: I won't BS you, pro-wrestlers are basically trained stuntmen performing a fight scene live in front of an audience. Usually they have an understanding before the match of certain specific "spots" they'll do with their "opponent" (who can be more properly understood as their scene partner), but otherwise they're improvising and relying on their partner to protect them. Even if everything goes correctly they will go home bruised. Injuries are always a possibility, though I have no real data to compare to mainstream sports.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 8:43 PM on August 26, 2023

I used to watch a little bit. I go back to Bruno Sanmatino, Andre the Giant, and Cindi Lauper. I get that it is entertainment However, so are Broadway plays, and I don't go to those. It would take a six pack of Pilsner Urquel and $500 to get me to watch one of these extravaganzas.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 8:53 PM on August 26, 2023

@Thorzdad: This is an eternally recurring question wrestling fans get. If you require an answer before watching any of it, I can only recommend you seek out sources. For example, philosopher Roland Barthes opened his seminal essay collection Mythologies with an essay called "The World of Wrestling", where he wrote:

The virtue of all-in wrestling is that it is the spectacle of excess. Here we find a grandiloquence which must have been that of ancient theatres. And in fact wrestling is an open-air spectacle, for what makes the circus or the arena what they are is not the sky (a romantic value suited rather to fashionable occasions), it is the
drenching and vertical quality of the flood of light. Even hidden in the most squalid Parisian halls, wrestling partakes of the nature of the great solar spectacles, Greek drama and bullfights: in both, a light without shadow generates an emotion without reserve.

There are people who think that wrestling is an ignoble sport. Wrestling is not a sport, it is a spectacle, and it is no more ignoble to attend a wrestled performance of Suffering than a performance of the sorrows of Arnolphe or Andromaque.

In a recent thread about the death of wrestler Bray Wyatt -- who passed tragically young of a heart attack at 36 -- I posted an excerpt from his Twitter:

"Wrestling is not a love story, it's a Fairy Tale for masochists. A comedy for people who criticize punchlines. A fantasy most can't understand, a spectacle no one can deny. Lines are blurred. Heroes are villains. [...] An excuse to be a kid again, and nothing matters except the moment we are in. Wrestling is not a love story, it's much more. It's hope. And in a world surrounded in hate, greed and violence, a world where closure may never come. We all know a place that has hot and cold hope on tap. For better or for worse."

Oh, also @brainwane: You will also get your "the story so far" summary if you watch Zero Hour on YouTube that starts 1 hour before the pay-per-view tomorrow. That way you'll get video packages telling you the stories going in, and also see at least two matches.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 9:02 PM on August 26, 2023

A local friend curating a watch party and explaining the storylines as they come up on screen.

And the promise of snacks.

I'm not a wrestling fan on my own, but happily join in when folks invite me to partake of their hobby with them, both on the small screen and in live venues, so I appreciate your enthusiasm!
posted by itesser at 9:06 PM on August 26, 2023

Audio description. Seriously, if the commentary is detailed enough that I can follow it as a totally blind dude who has no knowledge beyond the names of a few wrestlers of yesteryear, count me in.
posted by Alensin at 10:55 PM on August 26, 2023

I was a wrestling fan when I was a little kid, Saturday afternoon live from the channel 13 studios. Just a ring and about twenty folding chairs. I think I saw Haystacks Calhoun once. Always had the argument with other kids about "realness."

Right after I started at USA Network, (1982) they bought their first wrestling package. Set to air Sunday at noon, we didn't get the tape until 11am. Racked it up, there was one little problem: The whole show was in spanish. I called the boss, who had to run up a big decision tree, after all, they had promoted the heck out of this for a week. Three minutes before air, we got the call to air it. The network never received any complaints, and after that, every show came in english.

A little while after that, they bought Sunday night "Live From Madison Square Garden" from the (at the time)WWF. Although the show seemed a little disorganized, I learned how professional they could be.

The show ran from 8-11pm, and USA had a sports chat show scheduled at 11pm. It came with a huge note that the show HAD to go to air exactly on time, no matter what. This was one of my first nights running the transmission switcher, and was still a little nervous. At 10:30 I asked my boss about what to do if the wrestling ran long, he told me "Don't worry, they'll end on time."

10:50, 10:55, 10:57. I was really jittery, I didn't want to dump out of a match, but I knew the next show had to go at 11. I asked my boss again, he said don't worry, just listen carefully. 10:59 and they're still going, I'm ready to dump out, and I heard off mike "Thirty seconds!"

Suddenly the favorite, who was getting his ass kicked, flipped the other guy off of him, rolled onto his chest, and the the ref quickly counted him out. The Gorilla Monsoon spoke "What a great finish, good night from Madison Square Garden, the Mecca of Professional Wrestling!"

10:59:59.

I asked my boss how he knew they'd end in time, he told me the WWF always watched their budget, and the Garden union contract kicks into golden time if they're on air past 11pm.
posted by Marky at 12:46 AM on August 27, 2023

(I currently live in the UK.)

I watched a LOT of WWE and WCW in the 'attitude' era of the mid-late 90s, and dabbled a bit in the 80s enough to know who some of the older wrestlers were.

I suspect a subscription would get me rather interested but it depends on how much it costs. I have a few logistical issues based on moving not too long ago and having no comfortable place to sit aside from the desk I work at.
posted by Ms. Moonlight at 2:27 AM on August 27, 2023

@Thorzdad: This is an eternally recurring question wrestling fans get. If you require an answer before watching any of it, I can only recommend you seek out sources.

I don't see any question in what Thorzdad wrote. Just a response to your question: What would it take to get you to watch pro-wrestling this week?

My answer is the same as theirs, by the way. Well, I'd possibly watch it if someone paid me a lot of money, which seems unlikely. But apart from that: no thanks.

Please note that I'm not asking any questions, either.
posted by Too-Ticky at 3:24 AM on August 27, 2023

Despite having recently read and liked this fanfic that casts DC superheroes as pro wrestlers, and getting at least some appreciation for why people like it, the culture of pro wrestling has always felt so incredibly alienating to me that I really don't think there's anything that would make me like it. I can't find an entry point as a queer woman and I am not interested in working at it.
posted by restless_nomad at 4:44 AM on August 27, 2023

Based on prior experience, it'd take a friend having a birthday party in a dive bar unexpectedly playing it on big screen TVs everywhere such that it's basically impossible not to see some of it. Though I do agree with others that there's also probably a sufficiently large amount of money that'd convince me to actually watch in an engaged way for the contracted time span. Other than that, I had plenty of chances to get into it as a kid hanging out with my obsessed cousin, and eh. Just not my thing.
posted by teremala at 5:20 AM on August 27, 2023

@Thorzdad: This is an eternally recurring question wrestling fans get. If you require an answer before watching any of it, I can only recommend you seek out sources.

Willfully misinterpreting my answer to fit your narrative and then proceeding to condescend does nothing to entice me to watch wrestling.

I’m not some wet-behind-the-ears naif in need of educating. I’m probably twice your age and have been exposed to pro wrestling throughout my lifetime, and have never found it appealing in the least little bit. Pretty much the opposite, frankly. I find it relatively disgusting.

I can only recommend you simply accept a person’s answer.
posted by Thorzdad at 5:59 AM on August 27, 2023

What would it take to get you to watch pro-wrestling this week?


Only if there was no actual matches and just off the cuff 80s style promos and / or the wrestlers battle the mummies of Guanajuato outside the ring. And more song and dance routines but that's negotiable.
posted by Ashwagandha at 6:55 AM on August 27, 2023

Are you someone who used to watch wrestling, and now doesn't, and could possibly be convinced to start again?


Yes, especially with the improvements that appear to have happened when it comes to representation and prominence of women in the sport. I would just need to have a good idea of when and where it would be aired because I'm no longer used to appointment television and I only watched WWE.
posted by Selena777 at 7:15 AM on August 27, 2023

Is this something I would need a TV for?
posted by notyou at 7:59 AM on August 27, 2023

I would probably need to be paid.

I really struggle with perceiving human beings cause injury to other human beings. I struggle with it in movies and TV, where the storyline doesn’t even necessarily involve direct violence. I can’t see an incentive to watching something where the storyline centers around violence.
posted by samthemander at 12:53 PM on August 27, 2023

To watch for longer than 20 minutes I'd need a watch party of at least 4 but no more than 7 gay men, one or more would need to be wrestling fans and one or more would need to have postgraduate degrees in the humanities.
posted by Pickman's Next Top Model at 2:00 PM on August 27, 2023

@Thorzdad: Apologies that I misinterpreted your answer as a request for more information. However you should know that if you're twice my age you are probably dead!

@Ashwagandha: iunderstoodthatreference.gif
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 2:15 PM on August 27, 2023

I think they would need to have an interesting backdrop, for a start. Perhaps the wrestling match could start on the back of a moving train, and at some point they jump off onto a nearby trampoline and continue to wrestle, and I don't know, ride on horses? while still wrestling? maybe they could have magnetic shoes that allow them to walk up walls while still wrestling. Also there should be no audience, just cameras that follow them around. And random people should show up in groups, get promptly beaten by the main characters, and run off. Also someone should steal a diamond. And when I say wrestling I think I actually mean fancy punches and kicks and occasional big jumps that strongly suggest someone is using wires. Really what I'm looking for is an action movie. People spending hours leaning against each other and grunting does nothing for me.
posted by one for the books at 11:11 PM on August 27, 2023

Audio description. Seriously, if the commentary is detailed enough that I can follow it as a totally blind dude who has no knowledge beyond the names of a few wrestlers of yesteryear, count me in.

Caveat, I am a wrestling fan so I have a baseline of knowledge probably above yours, but I'm a casual fan, so not by much. However, I'm also a busy person who doesn't necessarily have two hours to sit still at the TV on a weeknight, so I often put on AEW's Wednesday night show (Dynamite) but then go around my house doing chores and putting in extra work time while mostly listening, and I don't really have a hard time keeping up.

The tricky part would be that they call moves, and even I as a fan don't always know what a move looks like. But based on the announce table's level of excitement and the sounds of the mat/crowd, I know whether it was killer or not lol.

I can't find an entry point as a queer woman and I am not interested in working at it.

For what it's worth, queer wrestlers and storylines are no longer particularly hard to find. But if one was actually interested in a possible entry point as a queer woman I would suggest watching the official replays of Effy's Big Gay Brunch.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 7:31 AM on August 28, 2023

I think they would need to have an interesting backdrop, for a start. Perhaps the wrestling match could start on the back of a moving train, and at some point they jump off onto a nearby trampoline and continue to wrestle, and I don't know, ride on horses? while still wrestling? maybe they could have magnetic shoes that allow them to walk up walls while still wrestling. Also there should be no audience, just cameras that follow them around. And random people should show up in groups, get promptly beaten by the main characters, and run off. Also someone should steal a diamond. And when I say wrestling I think I actually mean fancy punches and kicks and occasional big jumps that strongly suggest someone is using wires.

You are almost point for point (except for the moving train and diamond stealing) describing 2020's Stadium Stampede. There's even a horse!
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 8:45 AM on August 28, 2023

I watched as a kid during The Hulk Hogan, Randy Savage, Miss. Elizabeth era (I loved Miss. Elizabeth. RIP).

Nothing could get me to watch a full wrestling match now, let alone an entire block of shows.

I would (and have) watched old school compilations of their pre-match interviews from the 80's. Randy Savage showing up with random items from his hotel room and working them into his spiel will always amuse me.
posted by Julnyes at 10:32 AM on August 28, 2023

I didn’t really grow up watching wrestling. I do have some interest in it as an adult having been exposed to all the lore and carnie culture around it, but I think it’s always going to be from a slightly more removed perspective than that of a “real fan,” and if I’m being honest I find the in-ring action to be one of the less interesting parts a lot of the time. I’d probably have more fun watching a whole event if I had some real wrestling fans to watch it with. I bet I’d have a good time attending a show in person too.
posted by atoxyl at 4:53 PM on August 28, 2023

I used to be really into the WWF/WWE around the Attitude era, and lost interest around 2002-03 when it became The HHH Show... so I guess my main question is, exactly how much airtime does Hunter get on the weekly shows nowadays?
posted by Recliner of Rage at 9:59 PM on August 28, 2023

feminists I know via Dreamwidth or Tumblr or WisCon telling me this is surprisingly interesting and urging me to try it out

and

To watch for longer than 20 minutes I'd need a watch party of at least 4 but no more than 7 gay men, one or more would need to be wrestling fans and one or more would need to have postgraduate degrees in the humanities.

What they said. Also, liquor. My dad loved the stuff, watched it every weekend, used to talk about seeing the flamboyantly effeminate Gorgeous George in the ring, and took me and my brother to matches in Columbus OH when we were kids, so I definitely have a soft spot for the genre. Later as an adult in the late 90s I was fascinated by the bizarre and clumsy attempt at open queerness that was Lenny Lane and Lodi as the WCW's West Hollywood Blondes, even doing my part at the time to convince queer pals that the duo and the reaction to them was something interesting to see, a la brainwave's feminist friends, but that ended badly. Over time the dumbness of all the hype and the cloying artificiality of the clichéd storylines, not to mention the sexism and ongoing rancid ethnic stereotyping that ramped up dramatically after 9/11, soured me completely.

I get that there's more of a role for cool strong women now, but when I check in occasionally not much else seems to have changed. It's reality TV at its most dumb and manipulative, with endless buildup to kind of meh resolutions, along with a very problematic history of exploitation and physical abuse with no health insurance for the employees as a key part of the entertainment.

Hey, it's cool if you like it; I like plenty of silly, problematic stuff. Enough gin and snarky queers in the room could probably bring me back for a couple of hours.
posted by mediareport at 9:28 AM on August 29, 2023

@Recliner of Rage: He's not an active wrestler in WWE anymore, but he is an Executive VP. So not much airtime but still a presence over there. But he has ZERO airtime on All Elite Wrestling!

I've heard some of you say that you'd like to watch along with someone, and while I can't simulcast it to you all, I can offer the FanFare thread for tonight's episode of Dynamite.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 4:52 PM on August 30, 2023

Tumblr user unpretty reblogged a gifset from what looks like a pro wrestling match. This is the sort of recruiting material that can be effective for this sort of thing: a person whose taste I already know and like giving me a glimpse of an interesting moment that I can read pretty quickly (viewing a gifset of a 1-minute scene can often be a lot faster, like 5-10 seconds).
posted by brainwane at 12:26 PM on September 3, 2023

No idea if anyone's still paying attention here, but I wanted to correct myself from an earlier comment:

Turns out SHINE Wrestling, one of the all-women's promotions I mentioned above, is *not* out of business, and does in fact have a show in Florida this Sunday.
posted by The Pluto Gangsta at 6:33 PM on September 19, 2023