Are we middle class?
August 25, 2023 4:09 PM Subscribe
When you were little, say 6 or 7, and started venturing into your friends homes to visit them, did anything strike you as surprising
that they had a better home and furnishings than you felt you had? My parents were probably slightly lower middle class...we rented. Dad had poor income record...Mom worked decent job, and I felt we lacked for nothing. Plenty of food, lots of toys, etc...stuff that is important at that age. But when I would visit my friends homes...Brick ranch homes...I noticed several things that made me feel they were rich. One was wall to wall carpeting. The plush kind. Another was picture windows. And the best one was one of my friends parents had an oven at eye level built into the wall. And it was on that exciting new color that I just knew would never go out of fashion...Avocado. Even at that early age I was hip to what was going on in fashion...Oh, and my best friend for a short time had a live in housekeeper...Any similar stories from readers?
that they had a better home and furnishings than you felt you had? My parents were probably slightly lower middle class...we rented. Dad had poor income record...Mom worked decent job, and I felt we lacked for nothing. Plenty of food, lots of toys, etc...stuff that is important at that age. But when I would visit my friends homes...Brick ranch homes...I noticed several things that made me feel they were rich. One was wall to wall carpeting. The plush kind. Another was picture windows. And the best one was one of my friends parents had an oven at eye level built into the wall. And it was on that exciting new color that I just knew would never go out of fashion...Avocado. Even at that early age I was hip to what was going on in fashion...Oh, and my best friend for a short time had a live in housekeeper...Any similar stories from readers?
When I was a kid our house had an attic that had been converted into two bedrooms. They were accessed via a staircase in the dining room. But I had friends whose homes had a full second floor with a hallway and a bathroom.
I also had friends who went to their grandparents' vacation home whose families had cabins elsewhere. That was something no one in my extended family would ever have the money to afford.
posted by shesbookish at 4:26 PM on August 25, 2023 [4 favorites]
I also had friends who went to their grandparents' vacation home whose families had cabins elsewhere. That was something no one in my extended family would ever have the money to afford.
posted by shesbookish at 4:26 PM on August 25, 2023 [4 favorites]
I grew up on very big cattle ranch by the Montana/Canada border. Every other house I ever saw was fancier, cleaner, but less colorful and with fewer animals around.
posted by Ideefixe at 4:32 PM on August 25, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by Ideefixe at 4:32 PM on August 25, 2023 [8 favorites]
I grew up in a city in apartments or multi-family houses, and all my friends were immigrants or kids of immigrants, like us. When I went to college and started visiting friends' houses in the suburbs, I was amazed to see unattached single family houses, lawns, even an above ground pool that we got to swim in! The houses had TWO floors or a den/hang out area in the basement. I thought for sure they were rich!! Now 20 years later I know they were just "average" middle class.
Also, seeing those friends use things like zip lock bags and other disposable kitchen items, or using fancy glass food storage containers, instead of reusing sour cream containers and Chinese food takeout containers... whoa!
posted by never.was.and.never.will.be. at 4:36 PM on August 25, 2023 [9 favorites]
Also, seeing those friends use things like zip lock bags and other disposable kitchen items, or using fancy glass food storage containers, instead of reusing sour cream containers and Chinese food takeout containers... whoa!
posted by never.was.and.never.will.be. at 4:36 PM on August 25, 2023 [9 favorites]
The kids' bedrooms were clean and had decor: fancy foofy bedspread, pillow shams, a bedskirt, lace curtains. My room always looked as if a cyclone had just passed through, and you could barely even see the bed from all my junk on and around it.
A new girl moved in across the street and invited me to come inside her house. Her mother was mortified at the state of the girl's room, and apologized several times for the mess. I was mystified... the floor was spotless, the bed was made, what mess? Then I noticed that a small storage box from the closet was sitting in the middle of the bed, with the lid off.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 4:39 PM on August 25, 2023 [13 favorites]
A new girl moved in across the street and invited me to come inside her house. Her mother was mortified at the state of the girl's room, and apologized several times for the mess. I was mystified... the floor was spotless, the bed was made, what mess? Then I noticed that a small storage box from the closet was sitting in the middle of the bed, with the lid off.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 4:39 PM on August 25, 2023 [13 favorites]
Multiple gaming consoles was a tell in the 1990s. And then just anything being remodeled, that was an extreme extravagance. "We had our kitchen/bathroom remodeled" was just out of reach and I was always taken aback by other families who had that. And then the other was if someone was given a car when they turned 16, that seemed crazy out of reach as well.
posted by kensington314 at 5:02 PM on August 25, 2023 [5 favorites]
posted by kensington314 at 5:02 PM on August 25, 2023 [5 favorites]
Grade 4 I went to a new school and it opened up a new world. Parents chatting with each other about a topic that wasn't money stressors. Fresh fruit like oranges. Having ice cream at your house -like in your own freezer. Getting to go to the movies or roller skating by your parents paying. A grandparent that gave you Christmas presents. Going on a vacation. Wearing seatbelts. Cooked and plated meals. Hot cooked food. Spaghettios. Getting a lunch made for you, for school. Headboards. The big freezer door (instead of the little plastic one inside the fridge). Decent water pressure. A sink that had the cabinet under it. Windows that weren't breezy and cold in the winter. An air conditioner. Windows that weren't painted shut.
Nice thing was, I didn't really think twice about what i didn't have and was totally jazzed about having a friend whose folks would pay for me to go to the movies.
We saw Grease and Hair like 10 times each. I got taken on vacation and got to stay at their house for weeks at a time in the summer. Roller skating every Sunday! It was amazing.
posted by ReluctantViking at 5:06 PM on August 25, 2023 [18 favorites]
Nice thing was, I didn't really think twice about what i didn't have and was totally jazzed about having a friend whose folks would pay for me to go to the movies.
We saw Grease and Hair like 10 times each. I got taken on vacation and got to stay at their house for weeks at a time in the summer. Roller skating every Sunday! It was amazing.
posted by ReluctantViking at 5:06 PM on August 25, 2023 [18 favorites]
Grew up in a two bedroom apartment in a house that had been converted from a single family to a two apartment place, still with a connecting door at the bottom of the stairs. We had the upstairs. My brother and I each had a bedroom; we used to share a room until my father left us. Our mom slept on a pull out couch in the living room.
One friend had three brothers and their house, to me, was magical - the kids had their own rooms, and the parents had a private bathroom; they had back stairs as well as front stairs. You had to step up three steps into their living room, and they had decorative wrought iron gates into the living room. I used to dream of that house.
posted by annieb at 5:07 PM on August 25, 2023 [3 favorites]
One friend had three brothers and their house, to me, was magical - the kids had their own rooms, and the parents had a private bathroom; they had back stairs as well as front stairs. You had to step up three steps into their living room, and they had decorative wrought iron gates into the living room. I used to dream of that house.
posted by annieb at 5:07 PM on August 25, 2023 [3 favorites]
Something that always struck me as fancy as a kid was houses where two kids’ rooms had a bathroom in between (I think I found out as an adult they are called Jack and Jill bathrooms?).
posted by wsquared at 5:11 PM on August 25, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by wsquared at 5:11 PM on August 25, 2023 [3 favorites]
Trendy toys that were advertised on TV. Ready-made food instead of home-cooked. A playroom or play space just for the kids. A big color TV in the early to mid eighties - we had a small black and white and then a bigger black and white from my grandparents. A big car. Bedrooms that had clearly been decorated, with all the furniture and bedding purchased at one time.
But my family was more cultured and more left-wing than most people in our town at the time, so we had lots of books and they didn't, we had more interesting furniture even if it was from family or secondhand, we had lots of records and a record-player, we had ceramics that friends had made, etc. Honestly, even at the time I understood that a lot of the stuff my richer peers really liked was kind of rich-people-tacky.
The real shock was when I dated someone who was really blue collar, as my family was not, and there weren't any books in his house except his, and they weren't "the large collection of childhood, family, secondhand and new books that express my interests", they were a small selection of favorite books and library books. And when I visited a friend who lived in, gasp, an apartment. Honestly it seemed pretty exotic and fascinating to live in an apartment.
My town was extremely snobbish and in an inverted way my family was also snobbish. I think at this point I'm not that snobbish in real life anymore, but I did have a lot of contempt for my peers' lifeways. I think that this was mostly reactive contempt due to bullying, because I was not socially aware enough to be a snob until snobbism was articulated to me by my peers, but it was still pretty pointless.
posted by Frowner at 5:18 PM on August 25, 2023 [13 favorites]
But my family was more cultured and more left-wing than most people in our town at the time, so we had lots of books and they didn't, we had more interesting furniture even if it was from family or secondhand, we had lots of records and a record-player, we had ceramics that friends had made, etc. Honestly, even at the time I understood that a lot of the stuff my richer peers really liked was kind of rich-people-tacky.
The real shock was when I dated someone who was really blue collar, as my family was not, and there weren't any books in his house except his, and they weren't "the large collection of childhood, family, secondhand and new books that express my interests", they were a small selection of favorite books and library books. And when I visited a friend who lived in, gasp, an apartment. Honestly it seemed pretty exotic and fascinating to live in an apartment.
My town was extremely snobbish and in an inverted way my family was also snobbish. I think at this point I'm not that snobbish in real life anymore, but I did have a lot of contempt for my peers' lifeways. I think that this was mostly reactive contempt due to bullying, because I was not socially aware enough to be a snob until snobbism was articulated to me by my peers, but it was still pretty pointless.
posted by Frowner at 5:18 PM on August 25, 2023 [13 favorites]
When I was a kid, a neighboring family had a water fountain in their house. Just an ordinary, white, wall-mounted drinking fountain, like you'd find in any twentieth-century school or public building, but there it was in the middle of their upstairs hallway. Fully functional, of course.
This was the same family who also had actual, real-live Ms. Pac-Man and Asteroids cabinets in their living room.
posted by Faint of Butt at 5:22 PM on August 25, 2023 [4 favorites]
This was the same family who also had actual, real-live Ms. Pac-Man and Asteroids cabinets in their living room.
posted by Faint of Butt at 5:22 PM on August 25, 2023 [4 favorites]
I grew up in a ranch house in McMansion-land. I thought stairs meant you were definitely rich. (I don't actually think there was a substantial household income difference between my family and my schoolmates, and as a child chalked most differences I saw up to them being Americans, but I think it was largely that my parents chose to spend (or not spend) money on other things.)
posted by hoyland at 5:37 PM on August 25, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by hoyland at 5:37 PM on August 25, 2023 [2 favorites]
I had a friend who was one of 9 children in 10 years. He was actually a year older than me, his sister was in my grade, but when the kids are that close in age, you are friends with all of them. Anyway, I would drop by to see him unannounced and often he was not home but his mom insisted I stay for dinner. Imagine dinner with a long farm table, benches on both sides and around 10 kids who were hungry. What made me think they were rich or I was not as rich was that they always had plenty of food on the table. There was always enough for seconds even with 10 athletic hungry kids at the table.
My mom used to tell us to finish our meal because it was expensive to feed 3 boys. Don't waste food. Starving kids in Africa thing. So I would see bowls and bowls of food and think they were loaded. Even though there were 2 or 3 kids to a bedroom, the house was not always tidy, and the house was usually undergoing some repair project by the dad, I was amazed at whatever job the dad had. Must have paid real well. (I think he was in advertising?) The mom was so sweet and so loving and so generous, they just seemed wealthy.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 5:40 PM on August 25, 2023 [9 favorites]
My mom used to tell us to finish our meal because it was expensive to feed 3 boys. Don't waste food. Starving kids in Africa thing. So I would see bowls and bowls of food and think they were loaded. Even though there were 2 or 3 kids to a bedroom, the house was not always tidy, and the house was usually undergoing some repair project by the dad, I was amazed at whatever job the dad had. Must have paid real well. (I think he was in advertising?) The mom was so sweet and so loving and so generous, they just seemed wealthy.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 5:40 PM on August 25, 2023 [9 favorites]
Growing up middle-class in the DC suburbs in the 1960s, differences I recall when visiting the homes of kids with slightly richer parents: telephone extensions (maybe even in their older kids' rooms) and living rooms you couldn't go into, with plastic-covered furniture. Out in the backyard, maybe a treehouse, or a trampoline. And the basement converted into a wood-paneled rec-room, maybe even featuring a little bar. Differences I recall when visiting the homes of kids less well off were, their houses were smaller, so small the kids may have had windowless bedrooms their fathers set up in the basement. And nothing in the back yard, maybe no grass, even.
posted by Rash at 5:47 PM on August 25, 2023 [4 favorites]
posted by Rash at 5:47 PM on August 25, 2023 [4 favorites]
As a younger kid, we had a neighbor that had a pool, and they also had their own rooms (I shared with my brother), so I thought they were definitely richer than us.
posted by hydra77 at 5:57 PM on August 25, 2023
posted by hydra77 at 5:57 PM on August 25, 2023
I grew up lower-middle, because my parents were divorced. While the houses were adequate, and there were lots and lots of "tells" marking the difference between the way they lived and the homes of my friends, who were upper-middle. One that sticks in my mind is they had brand name foods (juice, ice cream etc) and we never did. Generic ice milk for us. Also there was plenty of varied, appealing food in their homes, which was a function not only of budget but of having SAHMs who made housekeeping a priority.
To this day, when I go grocery shopping and just throw some extra treats in my cart because I goddamn feel like it, I feel privileged and like I've arrived.
posted by fingersandtoes at 5:57 PM on August 25, 2023 [6 favorites]
To this day, when I go grocery shopping and just throw some extra treats in my cart because I goddamn feel like it, I feel privileged and like I've arrived.
posted by fingersandtoes at 5:57 PM on August 25, 2023 [6 favorites]
In the UK, I think class distinctions are a bit more subtle than just all the stuff you can buy, you can live in a 10 bed mansion and still be working class, or live in a shabby caravan/trailer and still manage to be upper class.
For me the biggest distinction between lower middle class and upper middle class is an ability to put up with a certain amount of clutter and wear and tear. The upper middle class can be quite happy with their house looking 'lived in', the lower middle class have far more status anxiety with wanting everything to look perfect and new and uncluttered.
The interesting part of this is that the extremes can look similar, an upper class home with a threadbare persian carpet and a working class home with a threadbare Ikea carpet.
posted by Lanark at 6:05 PM on August 25, 2023 [12 favorites]
For me the biggest distinction between lower middle class and upper middle class is an ability to put up with a certain amount of clutter and wear and tear. The upper middle class can be quite happy with their house looking 'lived in', the lower middle class have far more status anxiety with wanting everything to look perfect and new and uncluttered.
The interesting part of this is that the extremes can look similar, an upper class home with a threadbare persian carpet and a working class home with a threadbare Ikea carpet.
posted by Lanark at 6:05 PM on August 25, 2023 [12 favorites]
To me "rich" was "every kid who wants one has their own bedroom, and there's still a spare room for guests." I had to share a room for most of my childhood and boy oh boy did I hate that.
posted by potrzebie at 6:11 PM on August 25, 2023
posted by potrzebie at 6:11 PM on August 25, 2023
I (an only) grew up in a non-military family in southern England thru the 70's - many neighbours were technicians of various kinds either in the military or military contractors, and they loved technical kit, whether that was a washing machine with what I think were punch-cards for diff wash cycles, home made stereo systems - like speakers from scratch and even a pickup arm, all the toys, and quite fancy house interiors.
We were ... different - a very simple house, no washing machine, but a gas boiler with a gas-line you plugged into the wall, no phone, no tv (my parents only used tech sparingly and read a lot) - and parents who made LOADS of wine and beer - and had parties with friends, mum was non-nomad Romany [why the f can I not use the gpc word - it was not derogatory in my family or my time - metafilter's getting too peecee] , dad an accountant who knew more about explosives than many of the neighbours, mum's stepbrother was like a character from Snatch - playing darts with sharpened six-inch nails, grandad lived with us and had tales of poaching and so on from hist youth.
I think being part Romany (although I don't think this was consciously known) changed how we were seen, as I knew many people were VERY wary of my mum, calling her fae behind her back - yep real Aaronovitch stuff. Mum was also fluent in German - an odd skill for a working class girl from the WW2 era, in a society and time where other languages were basically unknown. It was an unusual family I think.
posted by unearthed at 6:17 PM on August 25, 2023 [14 favorites]
We were ... different - a very simple house, no washing machine, but a gas boiler with a gas-line you plugged into the wall, no phone, no tv (my parents only used tech sparingly and read a lot) - and parents who made LOADS of wine and beer - and had parties with friends, mum was non-nomad Romany [why the f can I not use the gpc word - it was not derogatory in my family or my time - metafilter's getting too peecee] , dad an accountant who knew more about explosives than many of the neighbours, mum's stepbrother was like a character from Snatch - playing darts with sharpened six-inch nails, grandad lived with us and had tales of poaching and so on from hist youth.
I think being part Romany (although I don't think this was consciously known) changed how we were seen, as I knew many people were VERY wary of my mum, calling her fae behind her back - yep real Aaronovitch stuff. Mum was also fluent in German - an odd skill for a working class girl from the WW2 era, in a society and time where other languages were basically unknown. It was an unusual family I think.
posted by unearthed at 6:17 PM on August 25, 2023 [14 favorites]
Wearing seatbelts
This is just me being old, not reflective of economics, but I can remember the first car I ever rode in with seatbelts in the back seat. I think I was about 7; they were the non-retractable lap-belts like in an airplane.
In the places we lived when I was a kid, there just wasn't a really rich strata. So the spread was from kids in poverty up to the kids of, say, a surgeon at the local hospital, but nothing really above that. I was aware of the differences, because some friends lived in single-wides and some lived in three story houses, but it never felt really in-your-face. I was somewhere in the broad middle part of that, probably on the lower side of the middle. In high school that spread got more visible, because some people were given cars by their parents (sometimes expensive cars) and some people weren't. But no one I knew had a second home or household staff or anything like that.
Then I went to college, where it was a mix of students like me on scholarships and loans, and people with serious money. Like, private airplane money. That was mind-blowing to me once I caught on, because I'd never met anyone with inherited wealth before.
Grad school was even more extreme, because it was about 1/3 people sending money home out of their grad stipends, 1/3 people like me who weren't receiving family money but weren't having to support family either, and 1/3 people with absurd amounts of money, a lot of them from ridiculously well-off families in developing countries. (I mean, the oligarchs and royal families have to send their kids somewhere.)
posted by Dip Flash at 6:25 PM on August 25, 2023 [3 favorites]
This is just me being old, not reflective of economics, but I can remember the first car I ever rode in with seatbelts in the back seat. I think I was about 7; they were the non-retractable lap-belts like in an airplane.
In the places we lived when I was a kid, there just wasn't a really rich strata. So the spread was from kids in poverty up to the kids of, say, a surgeon at the local hospital, but nothing really above that. I was aware of the differences, because some friends lived in single-wides and some lived in three story houses, but it never felt really in-your-face. I was somewhere in the broad middle part of that, probably on the lower side of the middle. In high school that spread got more visible, because some people were given cars by their parents (sometimes expensive cars) and some people weren't. But no one I knew had a second home or household staff or anything like that.
Then I went to college, where it was a mix of students like me on scholarships and loans, and people with serious money. Like, private airplane money. That was mind-blowing to me once I caught on, because I'd never met anyone with inherited wealth before.
Grad school was even more extreme, because it was about 1/3 people sending money home out of their grad stipends, 1/3 people like me who weren't receiving family money but weren't having to support family either, and 1/3 people with absurd amounts of money, a lot of them from ridiculously well-off families in developing countries. (I mean, the oligarchs and royal families have to send their kids somewhere.)
posted by Dip Flash at 6:25 PM on August 25, 2023 [3 favorites]
I grew up in a 2-bedroom apartment in a two-family house. My parents owned the house, but what that meant to me was I had to be quiet because of the tenants and their apartment always got new stuff before ours ever did. Most of my friends lived in houses like mine. Some had a single family and I sort of thought they must be rich. But mostly everyone around me was similar economically. Some a tiny bit poorer and some a tiny bit richer.
I went to a private school as a teenager and that's when I realized that some people lived in huge houses that were 4x the size of anything I'd seen. The thing that stuck out the most to me at first was how many pairs of shoes they all had. I remember writing about it in my diary.
posted by jdl at 6:43 PM on August 25, 2023 [4 favorites]
I went to a private school as a teenager and that's when I realized that some people lived in huge houses that were 4x the size of anything I'd seen. The thing that stuck out the most to me at first was how many pairs of shoes they all had. I remember writing about it in my diary.
posted by jdl at 6:43 PM on August 25, 2023 [4 favorites]
I grew up on a farm in a house that had been built and added onto by generations of not-particularly-handy family members. All of my friends lived in modest split levels, and I don't ever remember much noticing the (very big) difference.
But I remember in middle school going to an acquaintance's house to work on a project and that her living room had a cathedral ceiling and a stone fireplace. I did not know people lived like that.
posted by gideonfrog at 6:56 PM on August 25, 2023 [1 favorite]
But I remember in middle school going to an acquaintance's house to work on a project and that her living room had a cathedral ceiling and a stone fireplace. I did not know people lived like that.
posted by gideonfrog at 6:56 PM on August 25, 2023 [1 favorite]
My parents were newly middle class when I was 6-7. I was so amazed that our neighbors had so many books and an encyclopedia and a PIANO! We had no culture, just a few Reader's Digest condensed books and no musical instruments. I was also amazed that another neighbor had a two story house, and the girl had a canopy bed and a complete set of Nancy Drew mysteries. I was so jealous!
posted by a humble nudibranch at 7:46 PM on August 25, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by a humble nudibranch at 7:46 PM on August 25, 2023 [1 favorite]
TV IN THE BEDROOM!!
posted by kapers at 8:22 PM on August 25, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by kapers at 8:22 PM on August 25, 2023 [3 favorites]
(70s New Zealand) - colour television. More than one telephone. A pool. Rollerskates (they were *expensive*). Lego (also very expensive). A new car. In one memorable case, a tennis court!
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 9:06 PM on August 25, 2023
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 9:06 PM on August 25, 2023
1980s/1990s, Australia:
Rich was the family who had a microwave.
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 9:41 PM on August 25, 2023 [2 favorites]
Rich was the family who had a microwave.
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 9:41 PM on August 25, 2023 [2 favorites]
Swingset in the back yard.
posted by inexorably_forward at 10:53 PM on August 25, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by inexorably_forward at 10:53 PM on August 25, 2023 [1 favorite]
I love this thread! This question is something that confused me until I was in my forties (I'm 60 in a few weeks). Everyone's stories are so interesting, and it is so good to see other people have been as confused as me.
First, I'll tell about my daughter's experience. In Copenhagen, we live in a historic working class area that was often described as a ghetto when my kids were growing up, because of the mixture of white working class and immigrant populations. Hence, my daughter's friends at school had many different backgrounds and she stayed over at many different homes. One day she came home after a rather dramatic sleepover, that had ended with my daughter and her friend escaping from the home in the middle of the night, using public transportation. This was before kids had cellphones, so I didn't know what was going on till they entered our apartment. Anyway, my daughter explained to me that her friend's family was very rich, because they had a huge TV and all the appliances and gaming stuff and a safe behind a painting with stacks of money. We had no TV and no cash and no microwave.
Anyway, when I grew up, things were complicated, and I never figured out the stuff about class and money. My parents divorced before I was a year old, and the two families I grew up in were modest in very different ways. My dad was in the army and had jobs all over the place, but decided early on to buy a house in an area that was a bit above his means, even if that meant renting it out when they were stationed abroad. That meant they didn't have a car until I was in my teens, and only a b/w TV. My stepmother made all my little siblings' clothes. Also, the other kids my age in that area were pretty obviously much wealthier. For one, their mothers did not make clothes or much else, they had housekeepers. But my dad and stepmother still had all the status because my dad was doing well in his career.
My mother and stepdad (with me and my younger siblings) emigrated to England, and there we had a comfortable middle class life. We lived in semi-detached houses and went to private schools, I had riding, swimming and ballet classes. My friends ranged from working class to landed gentry, but in rural England, there is never any confusion about class. They tell you. The problems arose when we went first to Germany and Italy and then back to Denmark. In Germany, we became part of the mainly US military expat community. For someone who at the time saw herself as English, Americans deal with class and race in weird ways. We lived in an apartment, and in retrospect, I can see it was a very fancy apartment, but my brother and I were completely confused by the whole situation. If you ask our mother, we had lots of fancy American friends whose dads were high-ranking officers, but my brother and I only felt comfortable with the French kids in the building where we lived. Were the US "friends" rich or poor? Impossible to tell. We saw a lot of an American lady who drove a Mustang. What can I say, that is all I remember.
In Italy we lived on Elba in a remote villa with hundreds of almond trees, and we were home-schooled. We never found any local friends. Luckily we were good at spending time together.
Then we went to Denmark. Even to us as children, we understood there was something not good about this. Some sort of a failure. After a while where we lived at first my stepdad's mother, and then in an apartment over his brother's chemistry lab, we moved to a huge apartment with a view, and in a good area. But somehow it was still a failure. This is not the place to explain the how's and why's, just that for a kid, it was obvious that something was wrong and that it was impossible to understand. We might have looked rich, from very far away, but we were poor. The rental apartment was cheap, because wealthy people had moved out to the suburbs. My mum loves tech, so we had the TV and microwave, but the furniture was sad, dirty and scarce. Having a huge apartment with no furniture is weird.
We never had enough food. Many above mention the abundance of food as a sign of wealth, and that was my standard too, when I was a kid. I was never allowed to just take an apple from a bowl, neither at my mum's or dad's, so to visit someone where you could just eat all the fruit you liked was amazing to me. Obviously, I was a very skinny and also anemic kid, but while the school nurse proscribed drinking cream to the other skinny children, she just encouraged me to drink the school milk, so she must have known something.
Second, our apartment was always very dirty, and dark, and all the laundry was stacked on the tennis table we had instead of a dining table. My mum no longer stayed at home, but worked long hours at a low pay. My stepdad travelled a lot. At one point, my mother had a lover who was appalled at the state of my room: while my siblings had rooms with furniture and toys, mine just had a bed and an old bar-cupboard, so he went to IKEA and bought stuff for me so my room could look like a normal teenager's.
BUT, there was an other side to all of this. My grandparents were immensely rich, and I had another room at their house, and a pony and all the fancy designer clothes a teenager could have in the 1970s and all I could eat when I was there. Though even that wasn't simple. My granddad had a strict rule that one should never spend more on one's house than 10% of one's earnings from work, and never speculate in real estate, and since this was in the olden days where executives didn't earn 10.000 times as much as workers, they lived in a very modest row house. He bought a new car once, and drove it for 20 years. My grandmother never, ever bought a new car. So us children (siblings, cousins and friends), never understood how wealthy my grandparents really were. At the riding club, I had friends who lived in huge water-front villas with docks and motor-boats for water-skiing. I biked to the stable, they were driven. That seemed very rich to me. But their parents very well knew that my grandparents were above their league, and treated me accordingly. Which was again very confusing, I didn't understand at all what they were trying to convey. There were many absurd conversations.
My siblings had similar supports and networks. But none of us understood what was going on.
While I can explain some of the above, I feel this ask is more about being a child and not understanding what class and wealth is.
My granddad pensioned himself in 1986, and handed everything over to my uncle, who wasted every penny. Patriarchy stinks. But in this case, it was a good thing that we never thought we were rich.
When my kids grew up, they lived in a big apartment, but in an area that was described as a ghetto by the government. I got the apartment through the same network as my mother got her apartment when we came to Denmark. We never had cash and only sometimes a television (because my cousin felt I should have a TV, and provided one at irregular intervals). But we do have a library with as many books as the local public library, and I try to tell the kids that some of them are very valuable. We have valuable artworks, too. I worry that they won't take this seriously when I pass away and loose the value. But, hey, as long as they are happy in their own lives...
We do always have all the best food. I think my kids think I am a bit obsessive about this, but they haven't ever starved.
posted by mumimor at 1:01 AM on August 26, 2023 [8 favorites]
First, I'll tell about my daughter's experience. In Copenhagen, we live in a historic working class area that was often described as a ghetto when my kids were growing up, because of the mixture of white working class and immigrant populations. Hence, my daughter's friends at school had many different backgrounds and she stayed over at many different homes. One day she came home after a rather dramatic sleepover, that had ended with my daughter and her friend escaping from the home in the middle of the night, using public transportation. This was before kids had cellphones, so I didn't know what was going on till they entered our apartment. Anyway, my daughter explained to me that her friend's family was very rich, because they had a huge TV and all the appliances and gaming stuff and a safe behind a painting with stacks of money. We had no TV and no cash and no microwave.
Anyway, when I grew up, things were complicated, and I never figured out the stuff about class and money. My parents divorced before I was a year old, and the two families I grew up in were modest in very different ways. My dad was in the army and had jobs all over the place, but decided early on to buy a house in an area that was a bit above his means, even if that meant renting it out when they were stationed abroad. That meant they didn't have a car until I was in my teens, and only a b/w TV. My stepmother made all my little siblings' clothes. Also, the other kids my age in that area were pretty obviously much wealthier. For one, their mothers did not make clothes or much else, they had housekeepers. But my dad and stepmother still had all the status because my dad was doing well in his career.
My mother and stepdad (with me and my younger siblings) emigrated to England, and there we had a comfortable middle class life. We lived in semi-detached houses and went to private schools, I had riding, swimming and ballet classes. My friends ranged from working class to landed gentry, but in rural England, there is never any confusion about class. They tell you. The problems arose when we went first to Germany and Italy and then back to Denmark. In Germany, we became part of the mainly US military expat community. For someone who at the time saw herself as English, Americans deal with class and race in weird ways. We lived in an apartment, and in retrospect, I can see it was a very fancy apartment, but my brother and I were completely confused by the whole situation. If you ask our mother, we had lots of fancy American friends whose dads were high-ranking officers, but my brother and I only felt comfortable with the French kids in the building where we lived. Were the US "friends" rich or poor? Impossible to tell. We saw a lot of an American lady who drove a Mustang. What can I say, that is all I remember.
In Italy we lived on Elba in a remote villa with hundreds of almond trees, and we were home-schooled. We never found any local friends. Luckily we were good at spending time together.
Then we went to Denmark. Even to us as children, we understood there was something not good about this. Some sort of a failure. After a while where we lived at first my stepdad's mother, and then in an apartment over his brother's chemistry lab, we moved to a huge apartment with a view, and in a good area. But somehow it was still a failure. This is not the place to explain the how's and why's, just that for a kid, it was obvious that something was wrong and that it was impossible to understand. We might have looked rich, from very far away, but we were poor. The rental apartment was cheap, because wealthy people had moved out to the suburbs. My mum loves tech, so we had the TV and microwave, but the furniture was sad, dirty and scarce. Having a huge apartment with no furniture is weird.
We never had enough food. Many above mention the abundance of food as a sign of wealth, and that was my standard too, when I was a kid. I was never allowed to just take an apple from a bowl, neither at my mum's or dad's, so to visit someone where you could just eat all the fruit you liked was amazing to me. Obviously, I was a very skinny and also anemic kid, but while the school nurse proscribed drinking cream to the other skinny children, she just encouraged me to drink the school milk, so she must have known something.
Second, our apartment was always very dirty, and dark, and all the laundry was stacked on the tennis table we had instead of a dining table. My mum no longer stayed at home, but worked long hours at a low pay. My stepdad travelled a lot. At one point, my mother had a lover who was appalled at the state of my room: while my siblings had rooms with furniture and toys, mine just had a bed and an old bar-cupboard, so he went to IKEA and bought stuff for me so my room could look like a normal teenager's.
BUT, there was an other side to all of this. My grandparents were immensely rich, and I had another room at their house, and a pony and all the fancy designer clothes a teenager could have in the 1970s and all I could eat when I was there. Though even that wasn't simple. My granddad had a strict rule that one should never spend more on one's house than 10% of one's earnings from work, and never speculate in real estate, and since this was in the olden days where executives didn't earn 10.000 times as much as workers, they lived in a very modest row house. He bought a new car once, and drove it for 20 years. My grandmother never, ever bought a new car. So us children (siblings, cousins and friends), never understood how wealthy my grandparents really were. At the riding club, I had friends who lived in huge water-front villas with docks and motor-boats for water-skiing. I biked to the stable, they were driven. That seemed very rich to me. But their parents very well knew that my grandparents were above their league, and treated me accordingly. Which was again very confusing, I didn't understand at all what they were trying to convey. There were many absurd conversations.
My siblings had similar supports and networks. But none of us understood what was going on.
While I can explain some of the above, I feel this ask is more about being a child and not understanding what class and wealth is.
My granddad pensioned himself in 1986, and handed everything over to my uncle, who wasted every penny. Patriarchy stinks. But in this case, it was a good thing that we never thought we were rich.
When my kids grew up, they lived in a big apartment, but in an area that was described as a ghetto by the government. I got the apartment through the same network as my mother got her apartment when we came to Denmark. We never had cash and only sometimes a television (because my cousin felt I should have a TV, and provided one at irregular intervals). But we do have a library with as many books as the local public library, and I try to tell the kids that some of them are very valuable. We have valuable artworks, too. I worry that they won't take this seriously when I pass away and loose the value. But, hey, as long as they are happy in their own lives...
We do always have all the best food. I think my kids think I am a bit obsessive about this, but they haven't ever starved.
posted by mumimor at 1:01 AM on August 26, 2023 [8 favorites]
I grew up in the 80s and 90s in various parts of the US, our income varied a great deal (my dad was a salesman, sometimes we had a new Volvo, sometimes utilities were being switched off).
I thought it was fancy to have an extra fridge in the garage, just for soda. My friend had a chest freezer, I thought that was super extra double fancy.
My friends thought my house was fancy because it had a grandfather clock in the foyer.
posted by champers at 4:56 AM on August 26, 2023 [2 favorites]
I thought it was fancy to have an extra fridge in the garage, just for soda. My friend had a chest freezer, I thought that was super extra double fancy.
My friends thought my house was fancy because it had a grandfather clock in the foyer.
posted by champers at 4:56 AM on August 26, 2023 [2 favorites]
The matching furniture, in the bedrooms and living rooms, not the "we bought a chair" or "here's our old bed it's now your bed" that our house had. New clothes for the start of school bought for each child, not handed down from older siblings or homemade. Bicycles bought for each child, not shared. Vacations abroad, or by plane to a destination, or to the grandparents house in some far-off exotic city like New York or Texas. Braces and fashionable haircuts. Packaged snack foods and breads, not home made. More than one tv. Mom doesn't work, she's there after school and makes dinner every night by the time dad comes home from work.
But to our neighbors, we lived in the same size house, went to the same schools, were kind of weird. It took me years to realize my parents weren't good at socializing with anyone other than their own relatives, and also preferred to spend every penny and free moment on their progressively bigger boats.
posted by winesong at 6:02 AM on August 26, 2023 [5 favorites]
But to our neighbors, we lived in the same size house, went to the same schools, were kind of weird. It took me years to realize my parents weren't good at socializing with anyone other than their own relatives, and also preferred to spend every penny and free moment on their progressively bigger boats.
posted by winesong at 6:02 AM on August 26, 2023 [5 favorites]
The view from the other side, sort of. We went from public housing, aka "the projects", in NYC to Paris when I was four in the early 1950s and lived in apartments with no refrigerators, just a box that stuck out the window for keeping things cool. Even in public housing in the US in the 1950s everyone had a fridge. Four year olds are very aware of food.
When I was 7 we moved to Bordeaux to a rowhouse with a yard. As far as I can remember I only visited three friends' homes in the two years we lived there. Maybe French kids then didn't visit each other's homes, or maybe I just wasn't invited because I was that weird American girl. One girl's house was down the street from us and much the same, she maybe even had a refrigerator like we did by then, but her mother discouraged visitors. The two other girls I visited frequently lived in small dark apartments, no refrigerators. Their moms were both widows who worked a lot. They had outdoor hole in the ground outhouses shared by other tenants. Our school had those too and as a skinny little girl used to flush toilets they both repelled and terrified me- the fear of slipping into the hole was real.
As far as I know we were the only family in that local public all-girls elementary school that owned a car. And, oh boy, what a car we had: a 1956 bright blue Ford station wagon, way bigger and more colorful than the 2 chevaux and 4 chevaux prevalent in France at the time. We also had a telephone, none of my friends did. We were most likely also the only family with a washing machine, my classmates probably didn't know what that was.
Unlike our French classmates who owned maybe a couple of dresses which they protected with full-coverage smocks at school, my sister and I had a bunch of dresses each. And unlike them we did not bring wine in our thermoses to drink with our school lunch.
At some point I realized that my classmates thought we were filthy rich. I knew we weren't.
posted by mareli at 6:06 AM on August 26, 2023 [9 favorites]
When I was 7 we moved to Bordeaux to a rowhouse with a yard. As far as I can remember I only visited three friends' homes in the two years we lived there. Maybe French kids then didn't visit each other's homes, or maybe I just wasn't invited because I was that weird American girl. One girl's house was down the street from us and much the same, she maybe even had a refrigerator like we did by then, but her mother discouraged visitors. The two other girls I visited frequently lived in small dark apartments, no refrigerators. Their moms were both widows who worked a lot. They had outdoor hole in the ground outhouses shared by other tenants. Our school had those too and as a skinny little girl used to flush toilets they both repelled and terrified me- the fear of slipping into the hole was real.
As far as I know we were the only family in that local public all-girls elementary school that owned a car. And, oh boy, what a car we had: a 1956 bright blue Ford station wagon, way bigger and more colorful than the 2 chevaux and 4 chevaux prevalent in France at the time. We also had a telephone, none of my friends did. We were most likely also the only family with a washing machine, my classmates probably didn't know what that was.
Unlike our French classmates who owned maybe a couple of dresses which they protected with full-coverage smocks at school, my sister and I had a bunch of dresses each. And unlike them we did not bring wine in our thermoses to drink with our school lunch.
At some point I realized that my classmates thought we were filthy rich. I knew we weren't.
posted by mareli at 6:06 AM on August 26, 2023 [9 favorites]
I had a friend with a "play room", which was a cold lean-to conservatory with a pile of old toys in the corner. But it seemed very fancy to me.
posted by quacks like a duck at 6:16 AM on August 26, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by quacks like a duck at 6:16 AM on August 26, 2023 [2 favorites]
My kids have actually expressed this. We live in a three-bedroom bungalow in Toronto with wood and tile floors decorated in "Ikea + thrift store + kijiji antique finds." We also have tidied into Expedit and Billy bookcase, but present, a lot of books and art supplies and Lego and those kinds of things. I don't think it feels cluttered, but it does not feel airy/modern around here.
Recently my 12 year old commented that his friend's house is "way nicer." It's in the same neighbourhood, has a more modern layout, but I asked why and he said "his furniture is modern and he has less stuff." I can totally see that.
My oldest son found his friend's condo much fancier because it had a front desk and pool. Hard to argue with that!
All homes referenced are worth around a million dollars (condo slightly less) because real estate is beyond irrationally priced around here.
posted by warriorqueen at 6:41 AM on August 26, 2023 [4 favorites]
Recently my 12 year old commented that his friend's house is "way nicer." It's in the same neighbourhood, has a more modern layout, but I asked why and he said "his furniture is modern and he has less stuff." I can totally see that.
My oldest son found his friend's condo much fancier because it had a front desk and pool. Hard to argue with that!
All homes referenced are worth around a million dollars (condo slightly less) because real estate is beyond irrationally priced around here.
posted by warriorqueen at 6:41 AM on August 26, 2023 [4 favorites]
Entire BOWLS of ice cream with multiple scoops, not little cups with one small scoop. Mind. Blown.
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 7:22 AM on August 26, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by Mr.Know-it-some at 7:22 AM on August 26, 2023 [3 favorites]
I was born in 1991 and grew up fairly poor. I went to a private school where most of my classmates were rich. The biggest difference I noticed and was very envious about was the toys they had. One of my friends collected American Girl dolls and had all the different outfits for them too. I only had a couple of the paperback books from the book fair. Other friends had Polly Pockets, Barbie houses and cars and other large playsets, Furbies, those robot dogs you could talk to and teach tricks, and there were these plastic horses that I don't remember the name of but I really wanted one. I sometimes got these toys but it would be secondhand from family friends or occasionally a special gift for Christmas, and it was a big deal. Usually I just had shittier versions of the toys. I had a plastic robot dog that didn't do anything and the Happy Meal Furbies that only moved their eyes and ears.
As far as houses everyone had a fridge with an ice dispenser on the door, which was very exciting to me. People ate at a table in the dining room, rather than in the den on the couch in front of the television. Some people had pools. My friends' bedrooms looked like something you'd see in a magazine; the walls were painted a cute color and all the furniture matched and the pillowcases matched the sheets. The things in their bedrooms were also all intended for children, nobody was using a comforter that their parents also used. Some kids had bunk beds or canopy beds. There was a whole room just for laundry, instead of having the washer and dryer in the garage until they broke and we couldn't afford to replace them. People had more than one type of something at a time - multiple ice cream flavors in the freezer, several types of cereal, different sneakers in various colors. Also pajamas, I just slept in clothes that were too small or worn to wear out anymore.
In grade school I was told that one of my classmates lived in a house so large it had an elevator. We weren't friends, so I never got to visit her and find out if this was true.
posted by birthday cake at 7:55 AM on August 26, 2023 [3 favorites]
As far as houses everyone had a fridge with an ice dispenser on the door, which was very exciting to me. People ate at a table in the dining room, rather than in the den on the couch in front of the television. Some people had pools. My friends' bedrooms looked like something you'd see in a magazine; the walls were painted a cute color and all the furniture matched and the pillowcases matched the sheets. The things in their bedrooms were also all intended for children, nobody was using a comforter that their parents also used. Some kids had bunk beds or canopy beds. There was a whole room just for laundry, instead of having the washer and dryer in the garage until they broke and we couldn't afford to replace them. People had more than one type of something at a time - multiple ice cream flavors in the freezer, several types of cereal, different sneakers in various colors. Also pajamas, I just slept in clothes that were too small or worn to wear out anymore.
In grade school I was told that one of my classmates lived in a house so large it had an elevator. We weren't friends, so I never got to visit her and find out if this was true.
posted by birthday cake at 7:55 AM on August 26, 2023 [3 favorites]
Two things when I started high school really stood out. My new Biology lab partner was very nice and as we were getting to know each other first day another boy came over and they talked about tennis. When the boy walked away he said in way of explanation that they knew each other from the Country Club. I laughed because I thought country clubs were a made up thing that Thurston Howell and Lovey went to, a jazz age throw back. What a wit to pull up an old trope at the drop of a hat!
Huh, he thought I may know people from the Country Club too, did I play tennis?
So, learned that some people don't go to public pools or use public tennis courts and their kids are nice, if a bit sheltered.
Next eye opening experience was meeting kids accustomed to air travel and who knew how to ski? Our only travel was to pile into the car and travel two hour each summer to rent a 'cottage' in a cottage court by the lake the week that all the relatives were there. Airplane travel was for someone that had to get to the old country before someone died, or immediately following for the funeral. And I believe they drew straws and chipped in to send someone on behalf of the Chicago contingent.
So whole families flying somewhere twice a year for summer and winter vacations? Amazing.
I was a wellread, bookish kid but obviously I lacked imagination to get to 13 without knowing how that other half (third?, quarter?) lived that wasn't fiction.
posted by readery at 8:00 AM on August 26, 2023 [3 favorites]
Huh, he thought I may know people from the Country Club too, did I play tennis?
So, learned that some people don't go to public pools or use public tennis courts and their kids are nice, if a bit sheltered.
Next eye opening experience was meeting kids accustomed to air travel and who knew how to ski? Our only travel was to pile into the car and travel two hour each summer to rent a 'cottage' in a cottage court by the lake the week that all the relatives were there. Airplane travel was for someone that had to get to the old country before someone died, or immediately following for the funeral. And I believe they drew straws and chipped in to send someone on behalf of the Chicago contingent.
So whole families flying somewhere twice a year for summer and winter vacations? Amazing.
I was a wellread, bookish kid but obviously I lacked imagination to get to 13 without knowing how that other half (third?, quarter?) lived that wasn't fiction.
posted by readery at 8:00 AM on August 26, 2023 [3 favorites]
My best friend in the 4th grade has a spacious, decorated bedroom with a walk-in closet, her own bathroom, and a separate playroom (in the 1980s). I always thought she was fabulously wealthy, but probably more upper middle class.
posted by jeoc at 8:23 AM on August 26, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by jeoc at 8:23 AM on August 26, 2023 [2 favorites]
We were ... different -
One of the reasons I was less clued in to class/money differences as a kid was because my family was seen as cultural oddballs, almost freaks, everywhere we lived. Everyone else had TVs, whether small and black and white, or huge. We had books, and highbrow books at that. Our food was all homemade, a lot of our clothes were too. Nothing was name-brand. As a kid it was never clear to me if these things were being done because we were poor, or because it was better in some way. In hindsight, it was obviously a choice on the part of my parents, but no one ever explained it to me, and I had to navigate a lot of "geez your family is weird" stuff socially that overshadowed issues of wealth.
And, also obvious in hindsight but not to me at the time, my parents were living the financially-conservative "live below your means and save for retirement" lifestyle, and most families I knew weren't. So I had friends whose fathers worked at the same place as my father, but they were living much flashier lives in the material sense.
It was all really confusing to me as a kid.
posted by Dip Flash at 8:31 AM on August 26, 2023 [5 favorites]
One of the reasons I was less clued in to class/money differences as a kid was because my family was seen as cultural oddballs, almost freaks, everywhere we lived. Everyone else had TVs, whether small and black and white, or huge. We had books, and highbrow books at that. Our food was all homemade, a lot of our clothes were too. Nothing was name-brand. As a kid it was never clear to me if these things were being done because we were poor, or because it was better in some way. In hindsight, it was obviously a choice on the part of my parents, but no one ever explained it to me, and I had to navigate a lot of "geez your family is weird" stuff socially that overshadowed issues of wealth.
And, also obvious in hindsight but not to me at the time, my parents were living the financially-conservative "live below your means and save for retirement" lifestyle, and most families I knew weren't. So I had friends whose fathers worked at the same place as my father, but they were living much flashier lives in the material sense.
It was all really confusing to me as a kid.
posted by Dip Flash at 8:31 AM on August 26, 2023 [5 favorites]
Feels like a common thread, perhaps, is parents not explaining the world to their kids, for whatever reason. My mother was not like that at all. She spent a lot of time telling me about the ways in which we were fortunate so that I'd never take things for granted (the life lesson I am most grateful for). She also explained to me that people might be less or more fortunate than we were. As a result, I never had the feeling of going to someone else's home and being shocked or startled by their material state. I just understood that things could be different.
What did later shake me was learning that the kind of emotional abuse dealt out regularly by my family was not the norm in other homes.
posted by Conrad Cornelius o'Donald o'Dell at 9:48 AM on August 26, 2023 [6 favorites]
What did later shake me was learning that the kind of emotional abuse dealt out regularly by my family was not the norm in other homes.
posted by Conrad Cornelius o'Donald o'Dell at 9:48 AM on August 26, 2023 [6 favorites]
They had ensemble clothes bought from department stores and couldn't do active play for fear of damaging them. But they looked really, really good. Bell bottomed jeans, with colourful patches were my idea of high fashion when I was a kid. When I got jeans they were just the indestructible kind that survived a failed cliff climb, that resulted in riding an avalanche down the slope. (Not a real avalanche, just some loose stones and dirt, but to a kid it was an avalanche.)
They had hair that looked nice. There was one schoolmate who had absolutely perfect braids while my hair was... well, not perfect at all. I felt very incompetent and inadequate. It was only as an adult looking at her image in the class pictures that I realised that someone else must have been doing her hair for her. Also, there was the possibility that hair spray had something to do with it, especially on picture taking day. The first time a can of hairspray came into our house was the day after we did a bunch of charcoal drawings and it didn't get sprayed on anyone's head.
They got to watch TV almost whenever they wanted. They even watched it while they were home to eat lunch. At one point we got to watch TV on Sunday night from 6 PM to eight PM, but only for a few months one year. Dinner was usually at 6 PM and after that we could only watch for a little after dinner and we forgot to. We didn't get to watch Flipper or Flintstones or the Munsters or Bewitched. I only knew what those things looked like from seeing them on in the background, probably ignored when I was at other kids' houses. We DID to watch educational programming, like The World at War or the Six Wives of Henry VIII but we only knew about them if my Dad watched them, and then we could get permission to watch the rest of them even after his shift changed and he wasn't able to anymore.
Tey didn't seem to have any decent sets of reference books at home, unless they had a children's encyclopedia. They had no comprehensive books on general topics like birds, or European wars, or human anatomy, or the Milky Way.
They read magazines about movie stars and knew which marriage Elizabeth Taylor was on. instead of the name of King Henry's third wife...
They had a lot more grandparents than I did. I only had one. (This is because my father was older their their fathers, and my mother's parent had a bigger age gap.)
They must have been taking gymnastics because half the girls could do headstands against the wall and some of them could do flips and headstands without needing a wall.
They got money as gifts from relatives all the time. They often mentioned getting $100 for a birthday or Christmas present. Which sounds amazing, but wasn't because the money went into a bank account and their parents might end up spending it on something that supposedly benefited the kids, like a new couch, or the their family vacation to Plattsburgh. But usually it was being saved to pay for their wedding, or their university tuition, or their braces.
Braces were important to them. One girl lived with her uncle the orthodontist for the two years she attended our school so that she could get his orthodontic services for free. My parents snorted at the idea of orthodontic work and told us that if our teeth got bad enough to need that much dentistry we would just end up with false teeth. Of course they took stringent measures to delay that prospect and we all got marched to the dentist, possibly crying, at least once a year. But the idea of cosmetic dentistry was like the idea of owning a flying car.
Their fathers apparently didn't do any housework. Not vacuuming, not laundry, not ironing, not cooking dinner, not scrubbing kids faces, not bed time stories, not buying groceries... Apparently all their fathers did was work at a job and mend things. Which is probably why they mostly all lived in homes they owned or wanted to and were saving up for it, as the constant maintenance would have given their Dad something to do when he wasn't at work.
They all went skiing at Mount Tremblant. But apparently only twice. After that they had grown out of their skis but were going to get some more and do it again. Just not this month.
They had birthday parties. They got to invite about six kids to their birthday party. I went to a few, but since I never invited anyone back I never got invited a second time.
posted by Jane the Brown at 10:10 AM on August 26, 2023 [2 favorites]
They had hair that looked nice. There was one schoolmate who had absolutely perfect braids while my hair was... well, not perfect at all. I felt very incompetent and inadequate. It was only as an adult looking at her image in the class pictures that I realised that someone else must have been doing her hair for her. Also, there was the possibility that hair spray had something to do with it, especially on picture taking day. The first time a can of hairspray came into our house was the day after we did a bunch of charcoal drawings and it didn't get sprayed on anyone's head.
They got to watch TV almost whenever they wanted. They even watched it while they were home to eat lunch. At one point we got to watch TV on Sunday night from 6 PM to eight PM, but only for a few months one year. Dinner was usually at 6 PM and after that we could only watch for a little after dinner and we forgot to. We didn't get to watch Flipper or Flintstones or the Munsters or Bewitched. I only knew what those things looked like from seeing them on in the background, probably ignored when I was at other kids' houses. We DID to watch educational programming, like The World at War or the Six Wives of Henry VIII but we only knew about them if my Dad watched them, and then we could get permission to watch the rest of them even after his shift changed and he wasn't able to anymore.
Tey didn't seem to have any decent sets of reference books at home, unless they had a children's encyclopedia. They had no comprehensive books on general topics like birds, or European wars, or human anatomy, or the Milky Way.
They read magazines about movie stars and knew which marriage Elizabeth Taylor was on. instead of the name of King Henry's third wife...
They had a lot more grandparents than I did. I only had one. (This is because my father was older their their fathers, and my mother's parent had a bigger age gap.)
They must have been taking gymnastics because half the girls could do headstands against the wall and some of them could do flips and headstands without needing a wall.
They got money as gifts from relatives all the time. They often mentioned getting $100 for a birthday or Christmas present. Which sounds amazing, but wasn't because the money went into a bank account and their parents might end up spending it on something that supposedly benefited the kids, like a new couch, or the their family vacation to Plattsburgh. But usually it was being saved to pay for their wedding, or their university tuition, or their braces.
Braces were important to them. One girl lived with her uncle the orthodontist for the two years she attended our school so that she could get his orthodontic services for free. My parents snorted at the idea of orthodontic work and told us that if our teeth got bad enough to need that much dentistry we would just end up with false teeth. Of course they took stringent measures to delay that prospect and we all got marched to the dentist, possibly crying, at least once a year. But the idea of cosmetic dentistry was like the idea of owning a flying car.
Their fathers apparently didn't do any housework. Not vacuuming, not laundry, not ironing, not cooking dinner, not scrubbing kids faces, not bed time stories, not buying groceries... Apparently all their fathers did was work at a job and mend things. Which is probably why they mostly all lived in homes they owned or wanted to and were saving up for it, as the constant maintenance would have given their Dad something to do when he wasn't at work.
They all went skiing at Mount Tremblant. But apparently only twice. After that they had grown out of their skis but were going to get some more and do it again. Just not this month.
They had birthday parties. They got to invite about six kids to their birthday party. I went to a few, but since I never invited anyone back I never got invited a second time.
posted by Jane the Brown at 10:10 AM on August 26, 2023 [2 favorites]
Their Christmas trees were artificial and decorated with balls covered in shiny thread, and tinsel garlands. Our Christmas tree was real and covered in antique German blown glass decorations. My Mum explained that during the Second World War you stopped being able to replace Christmas decorations so you had to be really, really careful and keep them going.
We all had Christmas tree lights that got so hot they needed reflectors to keep them from catching fire, probably the reason they had artificial Christmas that couldn't ignite...
posted by Jane the Brown at 10:28 AM on August 26, 2023 [1 favorite]
We all had Christmas tree lights that got so hot they needed reflectors to keep them from catching fire, probably the reason they had artificial Christmas that couldn't ignite...
posted by Jane the Brown at 10:28 AM on August 26, 2023 [1 favorite]
In the UK and brought up in a fairly homogenous area middle class and upper working class area.
Wealthier families lived in a detached house rather than semi-detached. They holidayed in a villa in Italy (probably Tuscany) rather than a cottage in the UK or Eurocamp in France. They might have an eat-in kitchen and a dining room. Or, very excitingly a separate living room and family room. They had a Volvo or later a Land Rover. They had fewer hand-me-down clothes. They had a tutor after school as needed. Their parents had probably both been to university.
Working class families might have similar or more wealth to my family, but were more likely to go on a package holiday to Spain or Portugal. They had more toys at Christmas, and the kids were more likely to own something my mother considered inappropriate. Generally speaking fathers were in the trades or owned a black cab.
posted by plonkee at 11:53 AM on August 26, 2023 [2 favorites]
Wealthier families lived in a detached house rather than semi-detached. They holidayed in a villa in Italy (probably Tuscany) rather than a cottage in the UK or Eurocamp in France. They might have an eat-in kitchen and a dining room. Or, very excitingly a separate living room and family room. They had a Volvo or later a Land Rover. They had fewer hand-me-down clothes. They had a tutor after school as needed. Their parents had probably both been to university.
Working class families might have similar or more wealth to my family, but were more likely to go on a package holiday to Spain or Portugal. They had more toys at Christmas, and the kids were more likely to own something my mother considered inappropriate. Generally speaking fathers were in the trades or owned a black cab.
posted by plonkee at 11:53 AM on August 26, 2023 [2 favorites]
My family was solidly upper-middle class, but when I was a kid, I figured we weren't because my private school classmates with doctor and lawyer parents were clearly wealthier than we were; they lived in huge houses with extravagances like pool tables and fancy RGB projection TVs for their Nintendos, and did things like go on ski vacations or Hawaii for Christmas. It wasn't until I was an adult that I learned what actual poverty looked like.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 12:28 PM on August 26, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 12:28 PM on August 26, 2023 [3 favorites]
I grew up in a mobile home in the country wearing hand-me-down clothes, and I always thought if you lived in an actual house, no matter how small or simple, and bought your clothes from a store, that you were richer than I could ever imagine. Now I live in a two-story brick home in the suburbs and I still pull into my driveway some days thinking "I can't believe this is my life now."
posted by Pater Aletheias at 2:34 PM on August 26, 2023 [11 favorites]
posted by Pater Aletheias at 2:34 PM on August 26, 2023 [11 favorites]
Their bathrooms were decorated with clean, matching tiles and fancy taps that made water foamy. Their toothbrushes were all electric - even the children's. Their towels were washed regularly and their soaps were high end, perfumed with herbal ingredients.
They lived in a two storey house their parents owned, not a small rented flat (apartment). Most of all, their parents actually had a sense of interior design... with rooms themed around soothing slate blue, or classy deep purple, and matching wallpaper/furniture/fittings to boot.
My parents never intentionally decorated/designed the interior of the house, preferring to slowly fill it with whatever crap they impulsively bought. I wasn't allowed to decorate my room in any way - no choice of bedsheets or wall decor. It was as plain and austere as possible. My friends had much nicer rooms with cute little rugs and patterned sheets & curtains they had chosen, with artwork on the walls.
The kitchen had fancy fixtures like a breakfast bar/kitchen island and the dining table didn't look like it was obviously from IKEA. Appliances were sleekly designed polished metal or rustic wood rather than utilitarian white plastic.
They had expensive branded toy sets and all the art supplies they could ask for. A DS case full of games I begged to borrow and my parents refused to buy for me. They had an entire playroom dedicated to them! and their parents had a study or an office in the house, a very mysterious concept to little me.
Their parents were well versed in music (able to read sheet music and play an instrument) and the children had regular tuition in a chosen classical instrument. My parents had never been taught classical Western music and couldn't help me to learn it.
They went to holiday to exotic places in Europe - the Canary islands or Tenerife or Norway or Tokyo - to a holiday home instead of visiting their immigrant parents' country of origin every single year.
They had crafted items - teddy bears, cross stitch, quilts - gifted to them by their aunts/grandmothers. My grandmother saw those activities as beneath her station (ie. lower class) and still doesn't have any hobbies to speak of.
... I'm going to stop there before I get upset.
posted by wandering zinnia at 3:28 PM on August 26, 2023 [5 favorites]
They lived in a two storey house their parents owned, not a small rented flat (apartment). Most of all, their parents actually had a sense of interior design... with rooms themed around soothing slate blue, or classy deep purple, and matching wallpaper/furniture/fittings to boot.
My parents never intentionally decorated/designed the interior of the house, preferring to slowly fill it with whatever crap they impulsively bought. I wasn't allowed to decorate my room in any way - no choice of bedsheets or wall decor. It was as plain and austere as possible. My friends had much nicer rooms with cute little rugs and patterned sheets & curtains they had chosen, with artwork on the walls.
The kitchen had fancy fixtures like a breakfast bar/kitchen island and the dining table didn't look like it was obviously from IKEA. Appliances were sleekly designed polished metal or rustic wood rather than utilitarian white plastic.
They had expensive branded toy sets and all the art supplies they could ask for. A DS case full of games I begged to borrow and my parents refused to buy for me. They had an entire playroom dedicated to them! and their parents had a study or an office in the house, a very mysterious concept to little me.
Their parents were well versed in music (able to read sheet music and play an instrument) and the children had regular tuition in a chosen classical instrument. My parents had never been taught classical Western music and couldn't help me to learn it.
They went to holiday to exotic places in Europe - the Canary islands or Tenerife or Norway or Tokyo - to a holiday home instead of visiting their immigrant parents' country of origin every single year.
They had crafted items - teddy bears, cross stitch, quilts - gifted to them by their aunts/grandmothers. My grandmother saw those activities as beneath her station (ie. lower class) and still doesn't have any hobbies to speak of.
... I'm going to stop there before I get upset.
posted by wandering zinnia at 3:28 PM on August 26, 2023 [5 favorites]
Two things from other answers that I related to:
* other kids had full sets of book series!
* fridges with ice/cold water dispensers seemed very high tech.
* other kids had their own personal tech items (laptop, smartphone, game console, tablet/iPad) whereas my parents didn't let me have one because they hate the idea of me being independent!
...okay, I got upset.
posted by wandering zinnia at 3:43 PM on August 26, 2023 [1 favorite]
* other kids had full sets of book series!
* fridges with ice/cold water dispensers seemed very high tech.
* other kids had their own personal tech items (laptop, smartphone, game console, tablet/iPad) whereas my parents didn't let me have one because they hate the idea of me being independent!
...okay, I got upset.
posted by wandering zinnia at 3:43 PM on August 26, 2023 [1 favorite]
Two of my friends had go-karts! That seemed like the ultimate symbol of making it to my kid mind.
posted by umbú at 6:41 PM on August 26, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by umbú at 6:41 PM on August 26, 2023 [1 favorite]
I relate to some of the above comments. Furnishings really stick out. If I'm being honest however, the smells of houses really were interesting. Been in smokers' homes and the complete opposite of that - say countryside or adjacent thereof, and I appreciate them both. Families in them had some form of clear grit. Then there were the homes I walked into with a smell of carpet cleaner plausibly mixed with non-repulsive body or animal odor, and I never quite developed an affinity for them.
posted by JoeXIII007 at 9:10 PM on August 26, 2023 [1 favorite]
posted by JoeXIII007 at 9:10 PM on August 26, 2023 [1 favorite]
I don’t have any real memories of any differences between my family’s lifestyle and my friends’ before school / high school. But…
One of the reasons I was less clued in to class/money differences as a kid was because my family was seen as cultural oddballs, almost freaks, everywhere we lived
Sort of this - I was never cool enough to get invited to the wealthy kids’ parties (plus we were the only religious Jewish liberal family in an evangelical right wing town), so all I really knew was different about them was that they all had nicer clothes / the most expensive designer jeans (this was the 80s), and the fact that they had big parties with no grownups around in the first place.
Around my own set of friends, the biggest indicator that made my friends seem wealthy and cool was when the kids had their own phone line. That just seemed decadent AND living better since you had more privacy. On the other hand, our parents were always early tech adopters so even though we weren’t better off in general, we were the first of our friends to have a microwave and a VCR (and a computer, though that was our Dad’s and most of my friends didn’t think it was cool or care what it did) (again it was the 80s).
I also had one friend who was definitely lower down socioeconomically, and while I knew it at the time, the only things that actually made an impression on me were that they had a shed out back where they kept chickens, their dad cut the seat belts out of his car because the “damn government can’t tell me what to do” (I fell out of the car on the way to school once with them, so that was something), and they her mom sometimes went to the bathroom with the door open. None of which (except maybe the chickens) struck me as money things. Though the chicks were always those scrawny brown normal ones and not the fuzzy yellow Easter cute chicks, so that was an ongoing disappointment.
posted by Mchelly at 10:42 PM on August 26, 2023 [4 favorites]
One of the reasons I was less clued in to class/money differences as a kid was because my family was seen as cultural oddballs, almost freaks, everywhere we lived
Sort of this - I was never cool enough to get invited to the wealthy kids’ parties (plus we were the only religious Jewish liberal family in an evangelical right wing town), so all I really knew was different about them was that they all had nicer clothes / the most expensive designer jeans (this was the 80s), and the fact that they had big parties with no grownups around in the first place.
Around my own set of friends, the biggest indicator that made my friends seem wealthy and cool was when the kids had their own phone line. That just seemed decadent AND living better since you had more privacy. On the other hand, our parents were always early tech adopters so even though we weren’t better off in general, we were the first of our friends to have a microwave and a VCR (and a computer, though that was our Dad’s and most of my friends didn’t think it was cool or care what it did) (again it was the 80s).
I also had one friend who was definitely lower down socioeconomically, and while I knew it at the time, the only things that actually made an impression on me were that they had a shed out back where they kept chickens, their dad cut the seat belts out of his car because the “damn government can’t tell me what to do” (I fell out of the car on the way to school once with them, so that was something), and they her mom sometimes went to the bathroom with the door open. None of which (except maybe the chickens) struck me as money things. Though the chicks were always those scrawny brown normal ones and not the fuzzy yellow Easter cute chicks, so that was an ongoing disappointment.
posted by Mchelly at 10:42 PM on August 26, 2023 [4 favorites]
One thing I've noticed about my youth vs today: when I was a kid, wealthier homes had lots of different toys and stuff for the kids.
Now the mark of wealth seems to be minimalism as an aesthetic, neutral children's rooms and clothing, and a few toys all carefully tucked away.
I can tell I'm middle class because my child is festooned in bright colors and she has toys scattered everywhere.
posted by champers at 5:34 AM on August 27, 2023 [4 favorites]
Now the mark of wealth seems to be minimalism as an aesthetic, neutral children's rooms and clothing, and a few toys all carefully tucked away.
I can tell I'm middle class because my child is festooned in bright colors and she has toys scattered everywhere.
posted by champers at 5:34 AM on August 27, 2023 [4 favorites]
At that age: stairs, 2nd living rooms, rooms that didn't seem to be used much. Large properties. I lived in a new but small house in a small town, but many of my friends lived in older homes that were either huge or larger than ours but on large properties, and had things like their own (home made) golf course, or a river in the backyard, or rarely, a pool, or a flood lake. Or my college roommate who owned half of an actual lake, but that's older than the question.
To me, we had plenty of toys, and tvs and whatnot so that stuff didn't impress me much.
I actually made sure to buy a home with an upstairs - kids love them, and I still do too.
posted by The_Vegetables at 9:50 AM on August 27, 2023
To me, we had plenty of toys, and tvs and whatnot so that stuff didn't impress me much.
I actually made sure to buy a home with an upstairs - kids love them, and I still do too.
posted by The_Vegetables at 9:50 AM on August 27, 2023
Oh yeah, one of my friend's family owned the local motel and they lived in the motel - he had a motel room just for his closet. My mom was his teacher - she said he wore a different pair of shoes almost every single day in the 3rd grade. I didn't really notice stuff like that.
I also remember my grandparents downsizing to a smaller home - my cousin told them as we were all touring together "Grandma, your walk-in closet is larger than my bedroom", and it was.
posted by The_Vegetables at 9:54 AM on August 27, 2023
I also remember my grandparents downsizing to a smaller home - my cousin told them as we were all touring together "Grandma, your walk-in closet is larger than my bedroom", and it was.
posted by The_Vegetables at 9:54 AM on August 27, 2023
I grew up what I would now call academic middle class, but felt very much on the outs as a kid, and thought it was because we had less money than I later learned we did. We lived in a rambling old farm house with things that leaked and broke, water from a well, a big vegetable garden, and clothes made by my grandmother. My parents liked mid-century modern design. Notably, we had no TV, which I was repeatedly mocked for as a kid (there was literally a newspaper article about the weird family with no TV).
My friends lived in suburban subdivision houses with plush carpet and multiple TVs and brand new furniture and big cars. Some of them belonged to the country club. They went to Disneyworld for vacation. They had the designer jeans my mom refused to buy for me. Those were the things I thought meant wealth. I did have a few friends who also lived in old farmhouses like ours, and that was always a relief to learn, so I didn't have to explain why you had to be careful so the bathroom doorknob didn't fall off and other indignities of old, creaky houses.
Later, I discovered we weren't really as poor as I had thought. My grandfather had given my parents the money to pay cash for the house; he later paid for my college education. My parents did buy new cars, but they were weird Volkwagens, not big American station wagons. Their MCM furniture counts as vintage collector items. Now I don't regret my childhood reading books instead of watching TV, even though at the time I thought it was just the worst. And I live in my own old house with doorknobs that fall off in your hand if you aren't careful.
I still think of plush carpet as the height of wealth, though.
posted by gingerbeer at 4:57 PM on August 27, 2023 [4 favorites]
My friends lived in suburban subdivision houses with plush carpet and multiple TVs and brand new furniture and big cars. Some of them belonged to the country club. They went to Disneyworld for vacation. They had the designer jeans my mom refused to buy for me. Those were the things I thought meant wealth. I did have a few friends who also lived in old farmhouses like ours, and that was always a relief to learn, so I didn't have to explain why you had to be careful so the bathroom doorknob didn't fall off and other indignities of old, creaky houses.
Later, I discovered we weren't really as poor as I had thought. My grandfather had given my parents the money to pay cash for the house; he later paid for my college education. My parents did buy new cars, but they were weird Volkwagens, not big American station wagons. Their MCM furniture counts as vintage collector items. Now I don't regret my childhood reading books instead of watching TV, even though at the time I thought it was just the worst. And I live in my own old house with doorknobs that fall off in your hand if you aren't careful.
I still think of plush carpet as the height of wealth, though.
posted by gingerbeer at 4:57 PM on August 27, 2023 [4 favorites]
Playboy in the bathroom. (Not a class marker, but a "I didn't know this was a thing people did.")
posted by The corpse in the library at 7:59 AM on August 28, 2023
posted by The corpse in the library at 7:59 AM on August 28, 2023
Playboy in the bathroom. (Not a class marker, but a "I didn't know this was a thing people did.")
When I was in elementary school, a couple of friends had divorced fathers. Those guys kept the Playboys (and worse) on their living room coffee tables. At the time I thought it was pretty cool.
posted by Dip Flash at 9:25 AM on August 28, 2023 [2 favorites]
When I was in elementary school, a couple of friends had divorced fathers. Those guys kept the Playboys (and worse) on their living room coffee tables. At the time I thought it was pretty cool.
posted by Dip Flash at 9:25 AM on August 28, 2023 [2 favorites]
I grew up in a rural area where most families were single income, usually farmers but also oilfield, but my mom was a teacher. One thing I noticed in my house (and in the homes of other teachers' kids) was the presence of newsmagazines like Time and Macleans, as well as educational magazines like National Geographic or Science. And lots of books lying around. I'm not sure if it was purely money or lack of leisure time to read or lack of interest (or a mix of all three) for the farming families (although those working in oil could likely have afforded subscriptions) but the presence or lack thereof of printed material in the home was the first social class marker I noticed.
posted by Kurichina at 9:40 AM on August 28, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by Kurichina at 9:40 AM on August 28, 2023 [2 favorites]
I grew up on the spectrum from paycheck-to-paycheck down to "actually getting evicted," but always in the suburbs, and my parents/grandparents were educated, so there was a kind of genteel gloss to the poverty. Most of my childhood we lived in a condo complex so basically anyone who lived in a regular detached home seemed rich to me. But still, there were the friends who lived in mid-century era ranches with old furniture and cooking smells, whose parents drove older model cars. And then there were the friends who lived in large, multi story mcmansions that smelled like cleanliness and newness (like, actual new construction material smell. HEAVEN).
Big signifiers that definitely resonated from this thread:
-a family room or den with a big-screen TV and comfy sofas PLUS a living room with fancy matchy matchy furniture and no TV.
-new/matchy/themed decor for the kids' rooms
-vaulted ceilings
-white carpet that was kept spotless
-ice maker in the fridge
Also:
-anything Sharper Image-y: globes, beds shaped like things, bunk beds with slides or swings
-an in-ground pool
-a finished basement was a big one
-those two-story entryways with some big gaudy chandelier.
Later I went to a prestigious east coast college and learned what real wealth looked like and had my mind proper blown.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 1:22 PM on August 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
Big signifiers that definitely resonated from this thread:
-a family room or den with a big-screen TV and comfy sofas PLUS a living room with fancy matchy matchy furniture and no TV.
-new/matchy/themed decor for the kids' rooms
-vaulted ceilings
-white carpet that was kept spotless
-ice maker in the fridge
Also:
-anything Sharper Image-y: globes, beds shaped like things, bunk beds with slides or swings
-an in-ground pool
-a finished basement was a big one
-those two-story entryways with some big gaudy chandelier.
Later I went to a prestigious east coast college and learned what real wealth looked like and had my mind proper blown.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 1:22 PM on August 28, 2023 [1 favorite]
Agree with above that seeing all matching, purpose-bought food storage was so weird, we always reused margarine tubs and peanut butter jars until they broke. Seeing matching dishes and kitchenware, and realizing they probably bought it all new. Not at a thrift store or garage sale, but new in a set. Furniture that matched, and might have been bought new. Furniture that didn't do anything useful. You need to sit on things, and you need bookshelves in every available square foot of space, but what are all these little tables with one small object on them, or big shelving units with every shelf half empty? If one chair breaks, do you buy a whole new set so they all match? How are these people so rich?
After I'd been married a few years I really understood the difference in our backgrounds when we fought about whether we needed to keep one room pristine and perfect, like a magazine spread. You enter this sacred room only to dust and vacuum, unless you have guests. I had never lived anywhere that had enough space to waste like that, he had grown up with a room in the house he was only allowed in when guests were being entertained. They also had a housekeeper who did all the laundry and cooked meals as well as general cleaning.
posted by buildmyworld at 6:13 PM on August 31, 2023
After I'd been married a few years I really understood the difference in our backgrounds when we fought about whether we needed to keep one room pristine and perfect, like a magazine spread. You enter this sacred room only to dust and vacuum, unless you have guests. I had never lived anywhere that had enough space to waste like that, he had grown up with a room in the house he was only allowed in when guests were being entertained. They also had a housekeeper who did all the laundry and cooked meals as well as general cleaning.
posted by buildmyworld at 6:13 PM on August 31, 2023
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posted by happy_cat at 4:14 PM on August 25, 2023 [6 favorites]