How to deal with family dramas soon arriving on doorstep?
July 9, 2023 12:39 AM
Sibling, Partner and their 3 kids (ages 8-13) are arriving in a few weeks from the other side of the world. Unbeknownst to our family until a few days ago, they have been separated and cohabiting for years, but are now at an acrimonious point of crisis in their relationship where Sibling has been kicked out of their home, there are accusations of problematic drinking on both sides, the police have been called once (although without incident, but the fact the call was made is worrying) and social services staff are involved because the kids have complained of emotional stress at home due to the parental fighting. It seems they have now both obtained lawyers. Needless to say, we (immediate family) are all completely baffled that they are still planning to travel here as a family unit. How do we navigate this kindly, but with some boundaries in place?
We assume they are going ahead with the trip because the kids have been looking forward to it, plus the outrageously expensive airfares have already been long booked. We are concerned about both logistics (Will they stay together? Are we expected to accommodate them separately? Should we plan joint activities? Will Partner restrict our access to the kids, since we are Sibling’s family?) and just generally a level of awkwardness, drama and unpleasantness, that will potentially be quite hard on both my elderly parents and all the kids involved, both theirs and those of my other siblings.
They’ve never been a happy couple as such, there’s often been yelling, coldness, sniping at each other, even while staying with family in years past, so we are hoping they (and the kids) will be better off once a permanent separation has taken place. But it sounds like there’s going to be a few months of negotiation at least until there’s anything like a clean break. I’ve tried to talk to Sibling about both this, and the logistical side of things, but he is distressed, distraught about his immediate living situation, and apparently not thinking clearly about anything, so it’s very difficult to get him to appreciate there are a lot of practical and logistical things he needs to think through. On some level, I think he actually thinks this trip will somehow magically make everything better. We fear the opposite is true. Meanwhile, Partner has sent me some long, vague text messages about how they are both sad things have come to this, but hopefully our family can pull together to give Sibling the support he needs, and ensure the kids still have a good trip. This feels vaguely manipulative, knowing that she is putting in place legal measures to restrict his access to the kids, but still planning a month-long family trip with him.
I don’t really know what to do here. I completely understand the kids’ interests should be paramount here, but I don’t know them well and I don’t know what prioritising their needs looks like in this situation. I love Sibling and have never been a fan of Partner. Yet I completely understand Sibling would be very difficult to live with, has many problematic behaviours, and Partner may well be doing the best she can. Yet they have also been a toxic, conflict-riven relationship for well over a decade now, and I’m kind of angry at both of them for how all of this must affect their beautiful kids. Given they seem bizarrely decided on continuing to travel, what should our family do? Should we offer (or indeed, insist on) separate accommodation, which they don’t seem to have considered? Try to focus on the kids above all else, and planning lots of fun times for them (and should we plan this with one parent, or both)? Should we put all these decisions on them, even though both of them seem slightly detached from reality at present? Or actually should we try to suggest they cancel the trip?
I really want to be a good Sibling, Aunty, and human here - at the same time, selfishly, I would like to minimise my exposure to conflict and drama, and protect my parents and immediate family from the same. Given I am a few years sober, I have a particularly low tolerance for drama created by drinking, and was considering making any visit to my home only on the condition it is alcohol-free (but is that overly judgemental and passive aggressive!?) Equally, I wonder if in all of this, maybe I’m taking too much responsibility for something I ultimately don’t have a lot of control over, and I just need to go with the flow and let it all unfold…
We assume they are going ahead with the trip because the kids have been looking forward to it, plus the outrageously expensive airfares have already been long booked. We are concerned about both logistics (Will they stay together? Are we expected to accommodate them separately? Should we plan joint activities? Will Partner restrict our access to the kids, since we are Sibling’s family?) and just generally a level of awkwardness, drama and unpleasantness, that will potentially be quite hard on both my elderly parents and all the kids involved, both theirs and those of my other siblings.
They’ve never been a happy couple as such, there’s often been yelling, coldness, sniping at each other, even while staying with family in years past, so we are hoping they (and the kids) will be better off once a permanent separation has taken place. But it sounds like there’s going to be a few months of negotiation at least until there’s anything like a clean break. I’ve tried to talk to Sibling about both this, and the logistical side of things, but he is distressed, distraught about his immediate living situation, and apparently not thinking clearly about anything, so it’s very difficult to get him to appreciate there are a lot of practical and logistical things he needs to think through. On some level, I think he actually thinks this trip will somehow magically make everything better. We fear the opposite is true. Meanwhile, Partner has sent me some long, vague text messages about how they are both sad things have come to this, but hopefully our family can pull together to give Sibling the support he needs, and ensure the kids still have a good trip. This feels vaguely manipulative, knowing that she is putting in place legal measures to restrict his access to the kids, but still planning a month-long family trip with him.
I don’t really know what to do here. I completely understand the kids’ interests should be paramount here, but I don’t know them well and I don’t know what prioritising their needs looks like in this situation. I love Sibling and have never been a fan of Partner. Yet I completely understand Sibling would be very difficult to live with, has many problematic behaviours, and Partner may well be doing the best she can. Yet they have also been a toxic, conflict-riven relationship for well over a decade now, and I’m kind of angry at both of them for how all of this must affect their beautiful kids. Given they seem bizarrely decided on continuing to travel, what should our family do? Should we offer (or indeed, insist on) separate accommodation, which they don’t seem to have considered? Try to focus on the kids above all else, and planning lots of fun times for them (and should we plan this with one parent, or both)? Should we put all these decisions on them, even though both of them seem slightly detached from reality at present? Or actually should we try to suggest they cancel the trip?
I really want to be a good Sibling, Aunty, and human here - at the same time, selfishly, I would like to minimise my exposure to conflict and drama, and protect my parents and immediate family from the same. Given I am a few years sober, I have a particularly low tolerance for drama created by drinking, and was considering making any visit to my home only on the condition it is alcohol-free (but is that overly judgemental and passive aggressive!?) Equally, I wonder if in all of this, maybe I’m taking too much responsibility for something I ultimately don’t have a lot of control over, and I just need to go with the flow and let it all unfold…
Given what you’ve said I don’t think you should suggest that they don’t come stay with you — I think you should tell them with great force and conviction that you don’t feel up to hosting them for a month.
The potential for disaster is huge here. Traveling half way around the world with three kids in tow never improved anyone’s mood, and traveling together for a month will set even the happiest couple on edge. This is Not Going To Be Pretty.
If you want to compromise, tell them the partner isn’t welcome. At least then the kids will have a chance at a holiday before the parents really start sniping at each other.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 1:56 AM on July 9, 2023
The potential for disaster is huge here. Traveling half way around the world with three kids in tow never improved anyone’s mood, and traveling together for a month will set even the happiest couple on edge. This is Not Going To Be Pretty.
If you want to compromise, tell them the partner isn’t welcome. At least then the kids will have a chance at a holiday before the parents really start sniping at each other.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 1:56 AM on July 9, 2023
Maybe book a hotel room for parents and have the kids stay with you? That might give everyone a much-needed break.
posted by purplesludge at 3:34 AM on July 9, 2023
posted by purplesludge at 3:34 AM on July 9, 2023
I have a particularly low tolerance for drama created by drinking, and was considering making any visit to my home only on the condition it is alcohol-free (but is that overly judgemental and passive aggressive!?) Equally, I wonder if in all of this, maybe I’m taking too much responsibility for something I ultimately don’t have a lot of control over, and I just need to go with the flow
Gentle poster, what a challenging situation to face! I feel for you and the potential threat to your physical and emotional sobriety.
1. Only you know how to protect your own health and safety. Protecting yourself is priority number one. What would a safe visit from your sibling and their family look like? What do you personally need to insure that you survive such a visit intact and sober? Figure it out, write it down, and then share it with sibling and their partner.
For example, purplesludge has a good idea. Can you afford to book a hotel room for the parents or the family? If not, what can you offer them in the way of hospitality in terms of driving, entertainment, meals, etc. that is sustainable and healthy for you?
My sister is coming to stay with me soon. I am delighted to see her and, also, I will not be cooking. Like, I cannot cook for myself. Feeding myself well and regularly is a huge challenge. I am not equipped to be that kind of host. When it comes to food, she is on her own but there's a nearby grocery store and she is an adult who lives alone.
2. In that same way, as a sober person I would strongly encourage you to make it clear that your home is an alcohol-free zone inside and outside. The rule has to be black and white. If you allow any of them to stay with you and either party drinks, that party needs to stay elsewhere.
Honestly, I am worried about your sobriety because going with the flow is not going to protect your sanity if the two other grown ups are getting drunk in your home. That is why them staying elsewhere sounds better to me. But I also understand that staying elsewhere is not a thing for many families, including the one I grew up in.
3. What can you and your other family members collectively offer your Sibling and their family? Instead of waiting to be asked, I would again offer what is sustainable for you and the rest of your family and let the unhappy adult couple be responsible for the rest of their visit. Let them know in advance what you can do rather than letting them show up with unrealistic expectations.
Example: If you decide to host them, stock your kitchen with breakfast foods, snacks, etc. Let them know if you will be cooking at all or not. If so, when.
Volunteer to take the kids to X, Y, and Z activities on (dates) at (times). Find out how often your parents can realistically see their grandchildren (every day, every other day, whatever, for X amount of time) and share that info.
Perhaps you and the other local relatives can plan a family potluck/dinner/outing for X day at X time. Then provide Sibling and their partner with links or lists with info as suggested above about rental cars, public transportation, local places of interest, etc.
4. You have to set the boundaries and hold them as best you can. The visitors will do their best to dismantle them. But boundaries not only protect you, they also protect your relationship with your Sibling and their children. Even if Sibling and their family are unhappy with your boundaries, you are still protecting yourself and your relationships by creating a situation that supports your own health and sobriety.
5. If 12-step meetings are a thing for you, please keep going or step up how often you go. If they are not a thing for you but you are interested in online support for sobriety, send me a message here and I can suggest another resource. Also, consider Al-Anon and/or Adult Children/Dysfunctional Families meetings for help in learning how to create flexible boundaries, if that is of interest. Al-Anon is why I am able to have boundaries these days.
6. I have posted here earlier about my concerns about unhappy family members with children. I have been where you are, and it is scary. In my case, after the unhappy couple split everything got better. Both the adults and the children are in a much better place now. However bad it feels, understandably, things may improve dramatically for your Sibling and their children in the future. Good luck!
posted by Bella Donna at 4:24 AM on July 9, 2023
Gentle poster, what a challenging situation to face! I feel for you and the potential threat to your physical and emotional sobriety.
1. Only you know how to protect your own health and safety. Protecting yourself is priority number one. What would a safe visit from your sibling and their family look like? What do you personally need to insure that you survive such a visit intact and sober? Figure it out, write it down, and then share it with sibling and their partner.
For example, purplesludge has a good idea. Can you afford to book a hotel room for the parents or the family? If not, what can you offer them in the way of hospitality in terms of driving, entertainment, meals, etc. that is sustainable and healthy for you?
My sister is coming to stay with me soon. I am delighted to see her and, also, I will not be cooking. Like, I cannot cook for myself. Feeding myself well and regularly is a huge challenge. I am not equipped to be that kind of host. When it comes to food, she is on her own but there's a nearby grocery store and she is an adult who lives alone.
2. In that same way, as a sober person I would strongly encourage you to make it clear that your home is an alcohol-free zone inside and outside. The rule has to be black and white. If you allow any of them to stay with you and either party drinks, that party needs to stay elsewhere.
Honestly, I am worried about your sobriety because going with the flow is not going to protect your sanity if the two other grown ups are getting drunk in your home. That is why them staying elsewhere sounds better to me. But I also understand that staying elsewhere is not a thing for many families, including the one I grew up in.
3. What can you and your other family members collectively offer your Sibling and their family? Instead of waiting to be asked, I would again offer what is sustainable for you and the rest of your family and let the unhappy adult couple be responsible for the rest of their visit. Let them know in advance what you can do rather than letting them show up with unrealistic expectations.
Example: If you decide to host them, stock your kitchen with breakfast foods, snacks, etc. Let them know if you will be cooking at all or not. If so, when.
Volunteer to take the kids to X, Y, and Z activities on (dates) at (times). Find out how often your parents can realistically see their grandchildren (every day, every other day, whatever, for X amount of time) and share that info.
Perhaps you and the other local relatives can plan a family potluck/dinner/outing for X day at X time. Then provide Sibling and their partner with links or lists with info as suggested above about rental cars, public transportation, local places of interest, etc.
4. You have to set the boundaries and hold them as best you can. The visitors will do their best to dismantle them. But boundaries not only protect you, they also protect your relationship with your Sibling and their children. Even if Sibling and their family are unhappy with your boundaries, you are still protecting yourself and your relationships by creating a situation that supports your own health and sobriety.
5. If 12-step meetings are a thing for you, please keep going or step up how often you go. If they are not a thing for you but you are interested in online support for sobriety, send me a message here and I can suggest another resource. Also, consider Al-Anon and/or Adult Children/Dysfunctional Families meetings for help in learning how to create flexible boundaries, if that is of interest. Al-Anon is why I am able to have boundaries these days.
6. I have posted here earlier about my concerns about unhappy family members with children. I have been where you are, and it is scary. In my case, after the unhappy couple split everything got better. Both the adults and the children are in a much better place now. However bad it feels, understandably, things may improve dramatically for your Sibling and their children in the future. Good luck!
posted by Bella Donna at 4:24 AM on July 9, 2023
Suggesting cancelling the trip is a great idea, are you within capacity to absorb any out of pocket costs?
Depending on the kids’ needs, is it worth exploring whether you can host the kids on their own and give them a break?
posted by The Last Sockpuppet at 5:00 AM on July 9, 2023
Depending on the kids’ needs, is it worth exploring whether you can host the kids on their own and give them a break?
posted by The Last Sockpuppet at 5:00 AM on July 9, 2023
This all sounds very stressful for you, the kids, your parents, and I get a vibe that sibling's spouse kind of plans to leave him with family -from you saying:
It seems they have now both obtained lawyers. Needless to say, we (immediate family) are all completely baffled that they are still planning to travel here as a family unit.
And
Meanwhile, Partner has sent me some long, vague text messages about how they are both sad things have come to this, but hopefully our family can pull together to give Sibling the support he needs, and ensure the kids still have a good trip. This feels vaguely manipulative, knowing that she is putting in place legal measures to restrict his access to the kids, but still planning a month-long family trip with him.
Be prepared for that. Would sibling be able to stay with your parents, you, or other family if this happens? Would sibling be able to quickly get a job, are there immigration or other concerns?
As for drinking around you, 100%, you are fine to say no to that, you are fine to shut that down! Same with the drama, you are definitely in your realm to ask them to leave the situation when things get ugly.
What I am not sure of: Are they staying with family, or in a hotel? How much do your parents support sibling, how are family relationships -this post makes it sounds like you do a lot of fixing up and holding together of family, maybe? I get that from you trying to make sure things will be OK, and with some thought to the impact on you, but you seem like you are asking permission to set boundaries in all this. And yes, it is very much OK for you to set boundaries around drinking, arguments, and other drama. All the best, hope things turn up well with this.
posted by kellyblah at 5:33 AM on July 9, 2023
It seems they have now both obtained lawyers. Needless to say, we (immediate family) are all completely baffled that they are still planning to travel here as a family unit.
And
Meanwhile, Partner has sent me some long, vague text messages about how they are both sad things have come to this, but hopefully our family can pull together to give Sibling the support he needs, and ensure the kids still have a good trip. This feels vaguely manipulative, knowing that she is putting in place legal measures to restrict his access to the kids, but still planning a month-long family trip with him.
Be prepared for that. Would sibling be able to stay with your parents, you, or other family if this happens? Would sibling be able to quickly get a job, are there immigration or other concerns?
As for drinking around you, 100%, you are fine to say no to that, you are fine to shut that down! Same with the drama, you are definitely in your realm to ask them to leave the situation when things get ugly.
What I am not sure of: Are they staying with family, or in a hotel? How much do your parents support sibling, how are family relationships -this post makes it sounds like you do a lot of fixing up and holding together of family, maybe? I get that from you trying to make sure things will be OK, and with some thought to the impact on you, but you seem like you are asking permission to set boundaries in all this. And yes, it is very much OK for you to set boundaries around drinking, arguments, and other drama. All the best, hope things turn up well with this.
posted by kellyblah at 5:33 AM on July 9, 2023
I've had this thread open for a while, because I feel I have some valid information, and at the same time it goes against what people here are saying.
25 years ago, my spouse had a postnatal depression. Even though we had the best healthcare who discovered it early on, he chose drink and drugs over care. Which resulted in several terrible years. I chose to stay on track with my in-law family. It was hard as fuck, for all of us, and we had to divorce, because he was so off everything. But in the end, our basic approach has turned out as good as anyone could imagine. This Christmas we were together with all the kids, and his mother. We have had other holidays with his and my family together. I cannot emphasize enough what it means for our kid that our families work together.
One important thing was that his family understood from day one that he was a huge part of the problem, and dealt with the situation from that point of view.
This was my second husband, the family of my first husband decided to keep his back, regardless of his record of violence, even almost killing me and having a police restraint. So today they have close to no contact with my daughter. It's not that I ever told her what happened, it's that they brought out all the accusations against me before I said anything against them (which I never did).
I know both these situations are extreme and maybe not at all similar to what you are dealing with, but I still think it may be worth giving a thought. And BTW, the reason my second husband got the depression is very likely the things going on from the first and his family. Long story. But if you care for the kids, think about it.
posted by mumimor at 6:33 AM on July 9, 2023
25 years ago, my spouse had a postnatal depression. Even though we had the best healthcare who discovered it early on, he chose drink and drugs over care. Which resulted in several terrible years. I chose to stay on track with my in-law family. It was hard as fuck, for all of us, and we had to divorce, because he was so off everything. But in the end, our basic approach has turned out as good as anyone could imagine. This Christmas we were together with all the kids, and his mother. We have had other holidays with his and my family together. I cannot emphasize enough what it means for our kid that our families work together.
One important thing was that his family understood from day one that he was a huge part of the problem, and dealt with the situation from that point of view.
This was my second husband, the family of my first husband decided to keep his back, regardless of his record of violence, even almost killing me and having a police restraint. So today they have close to no contact with my daughter. It's not that I ever told her what happened, it's that they brought out all the accusations against me before I said anything against them (which I never did).
I know both these situations are extreme and maybe not at all similar to what you are dealing with, but I still think it may be worth giving a thought. And BTW, the reason my second husband got the depression is very likely the things going on from the first and his family. Long story. But if you care for the kids, think about it.
posted by mumimor at 6:33 AM on July 9, 2023
It sounds like a lot of your anxiety is rooted in not knowing- you have lots of reasonable questions, which neither parent has answered yet. I'd keep asking these questions, but in the meantime I would not worry too much about planning things - only plan activities that can easily be done spontaneously and that will be easy to do with either just you, one parent, or both parents. Figuring out the sleeping arrangements seems more pressing, so I'd focus on figuring that out. It's a bit confusing form your post, but it sounds like multiple family members will be taking turns hosting them? If so, your family might decide for them- instead of asking them what they're expecting, since they won't tell you, you could just tell them what your family, the hosts, have decided is best- which would probably be somehow separating the two fighting adults.
And yes, prioritize your health - it's not passive aggressive or judgmental to say, "As someone a few years sober, I need my home to remain an alcohol-free space." That's just stating a need.
posted by coffeecat at 7:00 AM on July 9, 2023
And yes, prioritize your health - it's not passive aggressive or judgmental to say, "As someone a few years sober, I need my home to remain an alcohol-free space." That's just stating a need.
posted by coffeecat at 7:00 AM on July 9, 2023
Reading your post again, I think many commenters are assuming that this couple are coming to stay *with you*, in the same room, for the whole time, and are replying on that basis -
But I notice you said "making any visit to my home only on the condition it is alcohol-free" - which, sounds a little like there... might not be any visits to your house? So therefore they're entirely or mostly staying somewhere else, even if that is with other family, such as the elderly parents and siblings you've mentioned?
So first, sidetrack, yes you are perfectly entitled to tell them, and do tell them in advance, alcohol or drunkenness isn't something you can have at your own house, as you are recovering from issues and are a few years sober. Do not mention or imply it has *anything* to do with them, this is an entirely you thing, and a boundary you have at your own house - even just mentioning that you'd love to have them over for dinner while they are visiting, and hey, hope they don't mind, but you only have *insert drinks here* and not any wine etc, as you're a few years sober etc.
Next, you seem irritated by, and regard as manipulative that "Partner has sent me some long, vague text messages about how they are both sad things have come to this, but hopefully our family can pull together to give Sibling the support he needs, and ensure the kids still have a good trip.".
That's... I mean, that actually sounds like a great message to receive. Sets up that partner would like to put best foot forward, and establish a positive setting for the trip. And they asked for support for your *sibling*.
I understand that you're at the "Bitch eating crackers" stage, but that summarised message in and of itself is not a red flag, and as you admit, you actually have no idea what has been going on in their relationship, you're playing very one sided catch up in only the last few days and you have no real idea of what has been going on or what may have been necessary in the moment.
I think your thoughts about focusing on providing a nice trip for the kids, with activities that might take them away from *both* parents if parents need space is a great one, but if they aren't staying with you the whole time, and aren't bothered enough to sort separate accommodation, I think your final thoughts are also good "I’m taking too much responsibility for something I ultimately don’t have a lot of control over, and I just need to go with the flow and let it all unfold…"
Especially if they have accommodation options which aren't you, which would make ultimatums unproductive, as boundaries are about what goes on in your space, not what other people choose to do not involving you, which is why the no drinking at your house is a good boundary because it's about you, not them.
And obviously there's a lot of context here and we aren't getting it all, as it's a bit ambiguous what you actually mean by then coming to visit.
Them staying just with you, you have a lot of power to decide what you don't want happening in your own home. If they are staying with others tho? Not yours to control, and your advice to yourself about what you need to do in your last line is great.
posted by Elysum at 7:10 AM on July 9, 2023
But I notice you said "making any visit to my home only on the condition it is alcohol-free" - which, sounds a little like there... might not be any visits to your house? So therefore they're entirely or mostly staying somewhere else, even if that is with other family, such as the elderly parents and siblings you've mentioned?
So first, sidetrack, yes you are perfectly entitled to tell them, and do tell them in advance, alcohol or drunkenness isn't something you can have at your own house, as you are recovering from issues and are a few years sober. Do not mention or imply it has *anything* to do with them, this is an entirely you thing, and a boundary you have at your own house - even just mentioning that you'd love to have them over for dinner while they are visiting, and hey, hope they don't mind, but you only have *insert drinks here* and not any wine etc, as you're a few years sober etc.
Next, you seem irritated by, and regard as manipulative that "Partner has sent me some long, vague text messages about how they are both sad things have come to this, but hopefully our family can pull together to give Sibling the support he needs, and ensure the kids still have a good trip.".
That's... I mean, that actually sounds like a great message to receive. Sets up that partner would like to put best foot forward, and establish a positive setting for the trip. And they asked for support for your *sibling*.
I understand that you're at the "Bitch eating crackers" stage, but that summarised message in and of itself is not a red flag, and as you admit, you actually have no idea what has been going on in their relationship, you're playing very one sided catch up in only the last few days and you have no real idea of what has been going on or what may have been necessary in the moment.
I think your thoughts about focusing on providing a nice trip for the kids, with activities that might take them away from *both* parents if parents need space is a great one, but if they aren't staying with you the whole time, and aren't bothered enough to sort separate accommodation, I think your final thoughts are also good "I’m taking too much responsibility for something I ultimately don’t have a lot of control over, and I just need to go with the flow and let it all unfold…"
Especially if they have accommodation options which aren't you, which would make ultimatums unproductive, as boundaries are about what goes on in your space, not what other people choose to do not involving you, which is why the no drinking at your house is a good boundary because it's about you, not them.
And obviously there's a lot of context here and we aren't getting it all, as it's a bit ambiguous what you actually mean by then coming to visit.
Them staying just with you, you have a lot of power to decide what you don't want happening in your own home. If they are staying with others tho? Not yours to control, and your advice to yourself about what you need to do in your last line is great.
posted by Elysum at 7:10 AM on July 9, 2023
Reading your post again, I think many commenters are assuming that this couple are coming to stay *with you*, in the same room, for the whole time, and are replying on that basis
I took:
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 8:32 AM on July 9, 2023
I took:
"Should we offer (or indeed, insist on) separate accommodation, which they don’t seem to have considered?"...to indicate that staying with the OP was the default case but I agree it's not really clear.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 8:32 AM on July 9, 2023
Partner has already sent you a text acknowledging that this is all bad news?
Tell her "thank you so much for reaching out and acknowledging the difficulty of the situation. I know how important it must be for you to make sure the kids have a good time; they must have been really stressed! Under the circumstances, let's have this trip to be just Sibling and Kids. I know you understand. Also, I hope it will reassure you to know that my home is an alcohol-free zone which I hope will help everyone stay calm and safe. I'll work with Sibling to make sure the kids have a great time which I know is your priority. Thank you and I hope I'll get to see you another time."
posted by fingersandtoes at 9:15 AM on July 9, 2023
Tell her "thank you so much for reaching out and acknowledging the difficulty of the situation. I know how important it must be for you to make sure the kids have a good time; they must have been really stressed! Under the circumstances, let's have this trip to be just Sibling and Kids. I know you understand. Also, I hope it will reassure you to know that my home is an alcohol-free zone which I hope will help everyone stay calm and safe. I'll work with Sibling to make sure the kids have a great time which I know is your priority. Thank you and I hope I'll get to see you another time."
posted by fingersandtoes at 9:15 AM on July 9, 2023
The thing about questions that are basically "how can I orchestrate a situation so that everyone behaves" is that unless they are for very short and specific timeframes, like not seating people together at a wedding, it's not really that possible.
Over a month-long visit, from my own bitter experience, people will come up with entirely new and creative ways to derail all of that.
But - there is something you can do, and that's have both goals and boundaries. For boundaries, these are things you can enforce. The broad boundary would be "I'm not going to stay in a situation where people are fighting horribly or demeaning each other" and "no booze at my house."
Some specific examples would be:
- "I'm newly sober and can't have alcohol in my home, or people who have had more than a drink at dinner." (If you need to enforce this, you ask them to leave.)
- "Hey, all this arguing is not cool with me. Please stop." (If they don't, either you ask them to leave or you go out for a walk/drive/ice cream.)
The first is something I would communicate in advance. The second, I wouldn't; it kind of goes without saying and saying something isn't going to help at the point the arguing starts.
For controlling what happens at your parents' or siblings' houses...that's just not in your control. However you can say "I'm really sorry it's rough. I wish I could fix it, but I can't get into the middle of it." And then...you don't.
For the kids, I personally would set some goals around hanging out with the kids low-key, not making Big Plans (which can end up stressful for everyone), but letting them see they have calm and caring family including an aunt who really loves them. Simple things like going to a movie or a mall, a walk, poking around a foreign grocery store (yours!), declaring an upside down day and dressing for breakfast, making upside-down pineapple cake, and then eating dinner in pajamas, can be really fun bonding things and don't require the adults to march around an amusement park or something.
Taking the kids out also gives the adults all some space from each other.
Also set some self-care goals -- keep up with your own exercise, food, etc. schedule. That's what you can control.
I too wasn't sure if they are staying with you. If so, that's obviously going to involve a lot more opportunities have to enforce your own boundaries. I would think about how to make sure they have some space and you do too - let the parents parent, show them where the laundry is, take them grocery shopping, etc. And have a backup plan if you need to ask them to leave. Ideally I guess a month-long AirBnB for them would be optimal but it doesn't sound like that's financially feasible.
I agree with some thoughts above that you may want to wait to assess the situation. The spouse's actions don't seem that out of line to me -- if I were seeking to limit my husband's access to our kids, and had to choose between going on a month-long trip or not going but having the trip take place, I would go on the trip even if I knew I was going to have a crap time. Also, as an aunt to two sets of niblings where the parents have divorced, it is much easier to stay in touch with nieces and nephews with a cordial relationship with the exes.
Finally, I understand your fear. My guess is that there will be a few bad nights/events during this trip, at least. But it's not necessarily a disaster yet. And you are not the disaster management team. It's okay if it ends up suboptimal. Just work on keeping your own feet under you.
posted by warriorqueen at 9:56 AM on July 9, 2023
Over a month-long visit, from my own bitter experience, people will come up with entirely new and creative ways to derail all of that.
But - there is something you can do, and that's have both goals and boundaries. For boundaries, these are things you can enforce. The broad boundary would be "I'm not going to stay in a situation where people are fighting horribly or demeaning each other" and "no booze at my house."
Some specific examples would be:
- "I'm newly sober and can't have alcohol in my home, or people who have had more than a drink at dinner." (If you need to enforce this, you ask them to leave.)
- "Hey, all this arguing is not cool with me. Please stop." (If they don't, either you ask them to leave or you go out for a walk/drive/ice cream.)
The first is something I would communicate in advance. The second, I wouldn't; it kind of goes without saying and saying something isn't going to help at the point the arguing starts.
For controlling what happens at your parents' or siblings' houses...that's just not in your control. However you can say "I'm really sorry it's rough. I wish I could fix it, but I can't get into the middle of it." And then...you don't.
For the kids, I personally would set some goals around hanging out with the kids low-key, not making Big Plans (which can end up stressful for everyone), but letting them see they have calm and caring family including an aunt who really loves them. Simple things like going to a movie or a mall, a walk, poking around a foreign grocery store (yours!), declaring an upside down day and dressing for breakfast, making upside-down pineapple cake, and then eating dinner in pajamas, can be really fun bonding things and don't require the adults to march around an amusement park or something.
Taking the kids out also gives the adults all some space from each other.
Also set some self-care goals -- keep up with your own exercise, food, etc. schedule. That's what you can control.
I too wasn't sure if they are staying with you. If so, that's obviously going to involve a lot more opportunities have to enforce your own boundaries. I would think about how to make sure they have some space and you do too - let the parents parent, show them where the laundry is, take them grocery shopping, etc. And have a backup plan if you need to ask them to leave. Ideally I guess a month-long AirBnB for them would be optimal but it doesn't sound like that's financially feasible.
I agree with some thoughts above that you may want to wait to assess the situation. The spouse's actions don't seem that out of line to me -- if I were seeking to limit my husband's access to our kids, and had to choose between going on a month-long trip or not going but having the trip take place, I would go on the trip even if I knew I was going to have a crap time. Also, as an aunt to two sets of niblings where the parents have divorced, it is much easier to stay in touch with nieces and nephews with a cordial relationship with the exes.
Finally, I understand your fear. My guess is that there will be a few bad nights/events during this trip, at least. But it's not necessarily a disaster yet. And you are not the disaster management team. It's okay if it ends up suboptimal. Just work on keeping your own feet under you.
posted by warriorqueen at 9:56 AM on July 9, 2023
I would guess that everyone is going on the trip together because taking kids out of their country of residence while there’s custody issues in play is tricky. This is likely the best solution for keeping the trip going and not disappointing the kids. I would take the long text message as trying to open channels of communication and just ask plainly what the plan is since things are not going great.
It is is no way passive aggressive or bad to insist that your home be alcohol free and not host inebriated people. That is a normal thing for sober people to want/need.
posted by Bottlecap at 10:00 AM on July 9, 2023
It is is no way passive aggressive or bad to insist that your home be alcohol free and not host inebriated people. That is a normal thing for sober people to want/need.
posted by Bottlecap at 10:00 AM on July 9, 2023
Yeah, I think they're not canceling the trip because it would make the kids sad, and spouse is coming because she doesn't trust your brother not to keep the kids is your country. Or maybe they mutually agreed that both parents need to be present for any international travel.
It's always okay for you to keep an alcohol-free home, and to say you'll only join meals out if there will be no drinking. Just pin it to your own sobriety. As for accommodations, it sounds like you haven't actually asked them? You can't and shouldn't try to figure this out for them. Just send a joint text or email stating how many guest rooms you have and asking how they're going to handle it.
posted by umwelt at 11:18 AM on July 9, 2023
It's always okay for you to keep an alcohol-free home, and to say you'll only join meals out if there will be no drinking. Just pin it to your own sobriety. As for accommodations, it sounds like you haven't actually asked them? You can't and shouldn't try to figure this out for them. Just send a joint text or email stating how many guest rooms you have and asking how they're going to handle it.
posted by umwelt at 11:18 AM on July 9, 2023
Ex-partner would not be welcome in my home. Not sure what the legal process is like in their country, but it may be possible to get a court order to facilitate the trip. The start date might have to move.
posted by shock muppet at 11:21 AM on July 9, 2023
posted by shock muppet at 11:21 AM on July 9, 2023
I would reach out to your Sibling asap and just ask how they imagine this working, especially with regard to sharing space with the soon to be ex partner. Bring up your boundaries and then ask them help make contingency plans. If either Spouse or Partner cross your boundaries, it is easy to say that they can't stay at your house any more but much harder to do if it involved thousands of dollars of expenses to either find another place to stay or to get an earlier flight. Find someone in your own support network to help prepare you for this call - it can very challenging to hold your ground if neither you nor Sibling are used to that happening in your relationship with each other.
posted by metahawk at 1:33 PM on July 9, 2023
posted by metahawk at 1:33 PM on July 9, 2023
Make a contingency plan, since Sibling sounds like a hot mess. Sibling stays in 1 place, Partner another, kids go back and forth. This is how it works in a divorce, they can test it gently.
you should protect your sobriety with good boundaries, and not having booze in the house is reasonable.
posted by theora55 at 3:17 PM on July 9, 2023
you should protect your sobriety with good boundaries, and not having booze in the house is reasonable.
posted by theora55 at 3:17 PM on July 9, 2023
Can you clarify what the current lodging arrangements are at the moment? People will be able to better answer if they have that information.
posted by Ollie at 3:24 PM on July 9, 2023
posted by Ollie at 3:24 PM on July 9, 2023
Several years ago, my (now-ex) husband and I had decided to end our marriage but were traveling with our kids, including a necessary stopover at his family’s for a few days before we returned to our home city. I got a hotel, both so that I could have some space from him and so that he could have some time with his family without me around during what was a pretty rough time.
Can Partner stay elsewhere?
posted by bluedaisy at 4:25 PM on July 9, 2023
Can Partner stay elsewhere?
posted by bluedaisy at 4:25 PM on July 9, 2023
I’d say something like, you’re looking forward to catching up. You understand they’re going through life upheaval now and you want to be as supportive as possible and ensure that they have a fantastic peaceful trip. Ask what you can do (within limits) to help achieve that and what steps they’ll be taking to ensure it themselves on the vacation? Mention your sobriety and say that it’s important to you and because of that, you’ll be asking any visitors to the home to (limit their drinking, not drink, whatever).
If the idea is that they’re all staying with you (not clear from your question) and you don’t think this will work, I’d tell your sibling outright that you think it’ll be best if ex partner finds alternative accommodation as given that police have been called in the past, you would prefer to not have that drama in the house and for the sake of your sobriety you can’t be around it.
If sibling isn’t happy with that, I’d be asking what kind of plan they’ll have in place to ensure their marital issues don’t come into your home and their kids vacation. If they are actually all staying there, you’re well within your rights to ask these questions. It seems like Partner is happy to talk about it given that she’s opened up the topic (if only to put it on you to provide a happy home through it all!) so I’d pick up that ball, throw it back to her and ask her what exactly she’s planning on doing with regards to that, after all it’s her drama, not yours!
But yes, I think you need to have a clear conversation about expectations, what theirs are and what yours are if they’re staying with you.
posted by Jubey at 12:38 AM on July 11, 2023
If the idea is that they’re all staying with you (not clear from your question) and you don’t think this will work, I’d tell your sibling outright that you think it’ll be best if ex partner finds alternative accommodation as given that police have been called in the past, you would prefer to not have that drama in the house and for the sake of your sobriety you can’t be around it.
If sibling isn’t happy with that, I’d be asking what kind of plan they’ll have in place to ensure their marital issues don’t come into your home and their kids vacation. If they are actually all staying there, you’re well within your rights to ask these questions. It seems like Partner is happy to talk about it given that she’s opened up the topic (if only to put it on you to provide a happy home through it all!) so I’d pick up that ball, throw it back to her and ask her what exactly she’s planning on doing with regards to that, after all it’s her drama, not yours!
But yes, I think you need to have a clear conversation about expectations, what theirs are and what yours are if they’re staying with you.
posted by Jubey at 12:38 AM on July 11, 2023
This thread is closed to new comments.
I think given your history it is pretty reasonable to ask for a sober home for yourself. Be clear about what that means though - can they drink at a restaurant and come home a little tipsy? Can they buy some beer and have some drinks outside? No drinking around you or the kids? Be clear and focus on what would make you feel most in control of that small slice of things.
One thought I have while reading through your question is, what’s the possibility that this visit will happen and your sibling will stay behind with you while the rest of them travel back? Is this a thing that would be disastrous or can you accommodate that for a little bit while he gets his feet under himself?
Be prepared to reach out to local family and friends for help with the kids. Kids in situations like you describe probably want calm predictability more than wheee fun vacation adventures. Are there grandparents in the picture? Some peace and affection from older adults or curious kind aunties and uncles might be appreciated, with lots of home cooking, sharing favorite movies and music, picnics and other ways to spend time together in a low structure way. If their parents start kicking up drama, having extended family around to keep an eye on the kids while you or someone else herds them away would be kind. Don’t shoulder this entire burden yourself. Ask for help or for folks to keep their plans low key or for friends to listen while you complain. If you have sponsors or other relationships with fellow sober people it might be smart to preemptively reach out to them.
posted by Mizu at 1:16 AM on July 9, 2023