looking for advice about how to think about managing interests and time
April 7, 2023 7:31 AM Subscribe
I am interested in a lot of things, and have always struggled to figure out how to balance my time between them. I'm looking for practical advice on this, how you think about it, etc. especially interested in how to think about balancing pure, "pointless" leisure time with "self-improvement" (which can be fulfilling in its own way but isn't necessarily straight leisure). lots of snowflake details within...
the last time I asked something like this, a bunch of people more or less made fun of me, so please don't do that. I am indeed seeing a therapist about stuff related to this, I probably am a bit compulsive (clinically, I mean) about how I think about time/hobbies, but I still think it could be helpful to get advice on this. but really, I don't need to be berated about it. if I sound odd to you, please, just move along. sorry if that sounds serious but the last time it felt pretty bad.
regardless, I'm in my mid 30s and honestly, for most of my life I just...chose one thing and did that. I studied a lot, then I worked a lot, and even when I read, I often sort often tended to make "projects" out of things. I don't think there is anything inherently bad about that, of course! but more and more I tend to feel a bit overwhelmed by...all of the things I want to do, and the fact that I simply cannot. I am interested in lots and lots of things, and I feel for any particular thing I'm into there is more than a lifetime of stuff I want to do with it. this can get a bit paralyzing.
I realize this is all silly, that I am a childless person with disposable income and so like...it's all a bit silly, given how many parents are lucky if they can read a book a year etc etc etc. I get it. but I am just trying to find a way to sort of...manage my time, and manage my pursuits, and I can be happy with? the therapist is helping me work on like...not getting so worked up about this, which I think is working! I'm not as worked up about it. but that doesn't change that I still have to like...choose how to spend my time?
I think part of the reason tend to...react weirdly to this problem of mine is that most people are not as intentional about their time. which is fine! and a lot of people who are obsessively intentional about their time are insufferable. so I get it. I think for a lot of people just sort of...do what they want to do? and it's hard for them to force themselves to do the things they "should" do. but for me I'm sort of the opposite? leisure historically has made me feel a bit guilty! heck, I just came off of spending 5 years intensely studying mandarin and japanese with pretty much 100% of my time (really)
coming off of that, I am trying really hard to just...be more chill? to work, to enjoy my life, not to take on gigantic long term projects...no more language study, not learning how to play the piano, etc etc. I just want to...enjoy life, and well, sort of tackle this issue that I've kicked the can on for a long time. I do think that I'll probably always be the sort of person who likes to go deeper on a few things rather than broad, and that's fine...but I think my goal is to maybe be able to manage like 3-4 things, instead of going from one GIGANTIC project to another GIGANTIC project that precludes me from doing other things that I enjoy (this was something that came up in the past and the truth is that I do, sincerely, enjoy all of the things I want to do! it's just that I have 100 lifetimes of things I want to do and have to choose which to prioritize). I don't know...this is where your advice comes in!
some historical pursuits:
- getting better at programming
- programming math (specifically, category theory, type theory, that sort of thing)
- mandarin and japanese
- watching anime (lol)
these days I watch quite a bit of anime, which has been part of my attempt to...allow myself to engage in leisure, despite it being "useless"? and in that I've been successful, but I'm sort of struggling how to figure out how to balance this with other pursuits
stuff I'd potentially like to do? there are a bajillion things I'd love to do, but these are the ones that I've been like "ugh I want to do X but I also want to watch show Y and ah I don't know..."
- engage in longer form media. anime is awesome! but I've been interested in visual novels, for example. but visual novels are generally a lot longer! this is sort of a classic example of the dilemma though, because like...anime and visual novels are both equally "useless" leisure activities. it seems silly to feel conflicted about "choosing" between them, but well...I do, and if you're reading this far, you promise to be nice! but like, a concrete example: I've wanted to read the Fate visual novel for a while...but that's like a 70-100 hour commitment. I could watch a _lot_ of anime in that time lol
- read more in japanese. I actually listen to a lot of audiobooks, but I really should read more in japanese. so this is an example of a pursuit that could be considered leisure, but also could be considered "study"? my japanese is pretty good at this point but my literacy is not quite as solid as it could be. so this is sort of part leisure, but also part self improvement? also depends on what I read. I have some non-fiction stuff that is more in the self-improvement part of things, but manga would be more on the fun side of things. as of late anime has been more interesting to me than manga, but there is quite a bit of manga I'd really like to read (for example, reading the rest of Bloom into You, which didn't get a complete adaptation)
- read on some cs stuff, and some cs related math type stuff. this is actually very conflicted to me. I'm lucky in that I'm able to set pretty good boundaries with my work. that said, I mean...I do like programming, and there are topics that I will simply not be able to spend focused time improving on unless I do it outside of work. I'm interested in type theory, functional programming, compilers, that sort of thing...the things I've learned on my own have been very helpful at all of my jobs, but while I _am_ sort of slowly improving on that sort of stuff at work, I have a gigantic list of books and papers I'd love to read and work through. but I _really_ don't know how to think about...leisure vs self improvement, especially given that historically I _always_ heavily prioritized self-improvement over leisure and I'm trying to...give leisure a fair chance? and the thing is, I do enjoy working on this sort of stuff...I enjoy building mastery in things, and I do find it enriching and fulfilling. it's just fulfilling in a _very_ different way than, say, a really good show that makes you cry, you know? and part of me thinks that I shouldn't prioritize this sort of stuff at all because I shouldn't be "working outside of work" etc etc. but on the flip side, I think that like...it's not inherently unhealthy to balance "productive" pursuits with leisure. like, there's no way I can't watch a lot of anime _and_ spend some time learning about type theory or compilers, but I am just...well, that's sort of the point of this (now way too long) question! historically my approach would have been..."ok, now I'm in compiler mode!" and then I'd spend every waking moment on that "project," I'd read through a bunch of books on the project, spend every moment working on it. that's sort of the only way I know how to prioritize stuff: 100% or 0%. I guess I'd like to learn how to be like...50%, 30%, 10%, 10%? I don't know.
- stay informed somehow? the death of my twitter has led me to be woefully uninformed on what's going on in the us and the world, and I feel sort of guilty about that...but it's been very hard to prioritize spending time on this. this probably deserves its own thread :P still, these days whenever I contemplate I don't know, going to a traditional media outlet or something I find that I've already thrown on the next episode of whatever I'm watching
- write? create...somehow? this is a more speculative one, and gets into some other personal stuff that I should probably work through with the therapist, but I think the part relevant to this thread is that whenever I contemplate creation the main thing that I feel is "wow, this is _very_ time consuming just to make something nobody gives a shit about, I could have read X or watched Y in that time." but I dislike how passive all of my pursuits are and wish that I could put something back out into the world. but that takes a lot of time!
- there are lots of other things I'd like to do, though the above are the ones I think about the most these days. for example, I'd love to read more, I don't know...chinese history, but it's _very_ hard to convince myself that's not a huge waste of time, given that I have 0 people to talk about it with, and it's completely irrelevant to my work or my life. probably not the best way to think about it, of course, but without a filter like that, I end up being completely overwhelmed by the desire to give myself like an informal masters in a bajillion different topics. I really do find a lot of things interesting, though of course some more than others...
ok, look, I realize this is all very trivial and neurotic but I do think that like...thinking about what we do with our limited time is like, a core part of the human condition, a core part of mortality, and so perhaps you can take pity and give me some advice.
have any methods of framing this sort of thing worked for you? how do you think about how you spend your time? in particular, how do you think about "productive" personal pursuits vs "unproductive" ones...in scare quotes because I do believe quite deeply that like...good stories can enrich the soul, but it's just a different sort of enrichment than, say, working through a compilers textbook
the last time I asked something like this, a bunch of people more or less made fun of me, so please don't do that. I am indeed seeing a therapist about stuff related to this, I probably am a bit compulsive (clinically, I mean) about how I think about time/hobbies, but I still think it could be helpful to get advice on this. but really, I don't need to be berated about it. if I sound odd to you, please, just move along. sorry if that sounds serious but the last time it felt pretty bad.
regardless, I'm in my mid 30s and honestly, for most of my life I just...chose one thing and did that. I studied a lot, then I worked a lot, and even when I read, I often sort often tended to make "projects" out of things. I don't think there is anything inherently bad about that, of course! but more and more I tend to feel a bit overwhelmed by...all of the things I want to do, and the fact that I simply cannot. I am interested in lots and lots of things, and I feel for any particular thing I'm into there is more than a lifetime of stuff I want to do with it. this can get a bit paralyzing.
I realize this is all silly, that I am a childless person with disposable income and so like...it's all a bit silly, given how many parents are lucky if they can read a book a year etc etc etc. I get it. but I am just trying to find a way to sort of...manage my time, and manage my pursuits, and I can be happy with? the therapist is helping me work on like...not getting so worked up about this, which I think is working! I'm not as worked up about it. but that doesn't change that I still have to like...choose how to spend my time?
I think part of the reason tend to...react weirdly to this problem of mine is that most people are not as intentional about their time. which is fine! and a lot of people who are obsessively intentional about their time are insufferable. so I get it. I think for a lot of people just sort of...do what they want to do? and it's hard for them to force themselves to do the things they "should" do. but for me I'm sort of the opposite? leisure historically has made me feel a bit guilty! heck, I just came off of spending 5 years intensely studying mandarin and japanese with pretty much 100% of my time (really)
coming off of that, I am trying really hard to just...be more chill? to work, to enjoy my life, not to take on gigantic long term projects...no more language study, not learning how to play the piano, etc etc. I just want to...enjoy life, and well, sort of tackle this issue that I've kicked the can on for a long time. I do think that I'll probably always be the sort of person who likes to go deeper on a few things rather than broad, and that's fine...but I think my goal is to maybe be able to manage like 3-4 things, instead of going from one GIGANTIC project to another GIGANTIC project that precludes me from doing other things that I enjoy (this was something that came up in the past and the truth is that I do, sincerely, enjoy all of the things I want to do! it's just that I have 100 lifetimes of things I want to do and have to choose which to prioritize). I don't know...this is where your advice comes in!
some historical pursuits:
- getting better at programming
- programming math (specifically, category theory, type theory, that sort of thing)
- mandarin and japanese
- watching anime (lol)
these days I watch quite a bit of anime, which has been part of my attempt to...allow myself to engage in leisure, despite it being "useless"? and in that I've been successful, but I'm sort of struggling how to figure out how to balance this with other pursuits
stuff I'd potentially like to do? there are a bajillion things I'd love to do, but these are the ones that I've been like "ugh I want to do X but I also want to watch show Y and ah I don't know..."
- engage in longer form media. anime is awesome! but I've been interested in visual novels, for example. but visual novels are generally a lot longer! this is sort of a classic example of the dilemma though, because like...anime and visual novels are both equally "useless" leisure activities. it seems silly to feel conflicted about "choosing" between them, but well...I do, and if you're reading this far, you promise to be nice! but like, a concrete example: I've wanted to read the Fate visual novel for a while...but that's like a 70-100 hour commitment. I could watch a _lot_ of anime in that time lol
- read more in japanese. I actually listen to a lot of audiobooks, but I really should read more in japanese. so this is an example of a pursuit that could be considered leisure, but also could be considered "study"? my japanese is pretty good at this point but my literacy is not quite as solid as it could be. so this is sort of part leisure, but also part self improvement? also depends on what I read. I have some non-fiction stuff that is more in the self-improvement part of things, but manga would be more on the fun side of things. as of late anime has been more interesting to me than manga, but there is quite a bit of manga I'd really like to read (for example, reading the rest of Bloom into You, which didn't get a complete adaptation)
- read on some cs stuff, and some cs related math type stuff. this is actually very conflicted to me. I'm lucky in that I'm able to set pretty good boundaries with my work. that said, I mean...I do like programming, and there are topics that I will simply not be able to spend focused time improving on unless I do it outside of work. I'm interested in type theory, functional programming, compilers, that sort of thing...the things I've learned on my own have been very helpful at all of my jobs, but while I _am_ sort of slowly improving on that sort of stuff at work, I have a gigantic list of books and papers I'd love to read and work through. but I _really_ don't know how to think about...leisure vs self improvement, especially given that historically I _always_ heavily prioritized self-improvement over leisure and I'm trying to...give leisure a fair chance? and the thing is, I do enjoy working on this sort of stuff...I enjoy building mastery in things, and I do find it enriching and fulfilling. it's just fulfilling in a _very_ different way than, say, a really good show that makes you cry, you know? and part of me thinks that I shouldn't prioritize this sort of stuff at all because I shouldn't be "working outside of work" etc etc. but on the flip side, I think that like...it's not inherently unhealthy to balance "productive" pursuits with leisure. like, there's no way I can't watch a lot of anime _and_ spend some time learning about type theory or compilers, but I am just...well, that's sort of the point of this (now way too long) question! historically my approach would have been..."ok, now I'm in compiler mode!" and then I'd spend every waking moment on that "project," I'd read through a bunch of books on the project, spend every moment working on it. that's sort of the only way I know how to prioritize stuff: 100% or 0%. I guess I'd like to learn how to be like...50%, 30%, 10%, 10%? I don't know.
- stay informed somehow? the death of my twitter has led me to be woefully uninformed on what's going on in the us and the world, and I feel sort of guilty about that...but it's been very hard to prioritize spending time on this. this probably deserves its own thread :P still, these days whenever I contemplate I don't know, going to a traditional media outlet or something I find that I've already thrown on the next episode of whatever I'm watching
- write? create...somehow? this is a more speculative one, and gets into some other personal stuff that I should probably work through with the therapist, but I think the part relevant to this thread is that whenever I contemplate creation the main thing that I feel is "wow, this is _very_ time consuming just to make something nobody gives a shit about, I could have read X or watched Y in that time." but I dislike how passive all of my pursuits are and wish that I could put something back out into the world. but that takes a lot of time!
- there are lots of other things I'd like to do, though the above are the ones I think about the most these days. for example, I'd love to read more, I don't know...chinese history, but it's _very_ hard to convince myself that's not a huge waste of time, given that I have 0 people to talk about it with, and it's completely irrelevant to my work or my life. probably not the best way to think about it, of course, but without a filter like that, I end up being completely overwhelmed by the desire to give myself like an informal masters in a bajillion different topics. I really do find a lot of things interesting, though of course some more than others...
ok, look, I realize this is all very trivial and neurotic but I do think that like...thinking about what we do with our limited time is like, a core part of the human condition, a core part of mortality, and so perhaps you can take pity and give me some advice.
have any methods of framing this sort of thing worked for you? how do you think about how you spend your time? in particular, how do you think about "productive" personal pursuits vs "unproductive" ones...in scare quotes because I do believe quite deeply that like...good stories can enrich the soul, but it's just a different sort of enrichment than, say, working through a compilers textbook
I relate very much to this question! I am a researcher/planner. I also seem to add new interests every year without ever getting tired of the old ones. A few notions that come up for me when I think about managing them:
- From the idea of exercise habits, where people do "leg day" and "rest day," but applied to my interests: read news on Sunday, weight lift on Monday, yoga on Tuesday, podcasts only while driving, cooking new things only in winter, etc.
- Small increments are fine! I read during my lunch break, and sometimes that's the only time, but I still end up reading quite a lot.
- I do not assess things by whether they are "productive" or not. I like Oliver Burkeman's framing on productivity.
- You might give yourself a month or so of drifting and not-planning your time in order to see what bubbles up as truly being the most important things to you. When I do a quiz that has me rank my interests by whatever measure of personal value, I come up with one list. But then I might get an invitation to do something fun or help someone with a project or a particular person suddenly has a day off and I realize how different my priorities actually are from what I wrote in the quiz. By taking a month off, I can also see what activities I am missing and craving -- in a way that the daily schedule cannot reveal.
posted by xo at 7:53 AM on April 7, 2023 [8 favorites]
- From the idea of exercise habits, where people do "leg day" and "rest day," but applied to my interests: read news on Sunday, weight lift on Monday, yoga on Tuesday, podcasts only while driving, cooking new things only in winter, etc.
- Small increments are fine! I read during my lunch break, and sometimes that's the only time, but I still end up reading quite a lot.
- I do not assess things by whether they are "productive" or not. I like Oliver Burkeman's framing on productivity.
- You might give yourself a month or so of drifting and not-planning your time in order to see what bubbles up as truly being the most important things to you. When I do a quiz that has me rank my interests by whatever measure of personal value, I come up with one list. But then I might get an invitation to do something fun or help someone with a project or a particular person suddenly has a day off and I realize how different my priorities actually are from what I wrote in the quiz. By taking a month off, I can also see what activities I am missing and craving -- in a way that the daily schedule cannot reveal.
posted by xo at 7:53 AM on April 7, 2023 [8 favorites]
I think this is a really interesting question. Its seems to me you are trying to decide how "valuable" it is to spend your time on various interests - but I think you need to decide what on what the end goal, or value is, of these pursuits.
Your interests are vehicles to some larger goal: it could be a pure love of learning; it could be to relax and enjoy yourself; it could be to be become part of a community of like-minded folks; it could be to improve a set of skills you use at work and make more money; it could be to contribute your knowledge to solving a problem/fighting for change. Figure out "why" you actually are doing certain things.
I will say, from my personal experience: the interests you describe sound very singular and insular. Are you finding community emerging from deep dives into such esoteric interests? For example, I've been doing a lot of kayaking/paddle sports the last 5 or 6 years, not only b/c I enjoy it, but also because it allows me to meet people, volunteer, spend time in community. Do your pursuits do that? Does that matter to you?
Your capacity to focus and learn is really impressive. Personally, I can't focus at all like that (see: writing ask metafilter mid-morning at work.) If you decide that learning for learning's sake is your highest value, then pick the things that you find most fascinating. If you decide that learning something to contribute to social change, do that. Or whatever it these values these vehicles will take you toward - that's probably your metric for spending intentional time.
posted by RajahKing at 7:54 AM on April 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
Your interests are vehicles to some larger goal: it could be a pure love of learning; it could be to relax and enjoy yourself; it could be to be become part of a community of like-minded folks; it could be to improve a set of skills you use at work and make more money; it could be to contribute your knowledge to solving a problem/fighting for change. Figure out "why" you actually are doing certain things.
I will say, from my personal experience: the interests you describe sound very singular and insular. Are you finding community emerging from deep dives into such esoteric interests? For example, I've been doing a lot of kayaking/paddle sports the last 5 or 6 years, not only b/c I enjoy it, but also because it allows me to meet people, volunteer, spend time in community. Do your pursuits do that? Does that matter to you?
Your capacity to focus and learn is really impressive. Personally, I can't focus at all like that (see: writing ask metafilter mid-morning at work.) If you decide that learning for learning's sake is your highest value, then pick the things that you find most fascinating. If you decide that learning something to contribute to social change, do that. Or whatever it these values these vehicles will take you toward - that's probably your metric for spending intentional time.
posted by RajahKing at 7:54 AM on April 7, 2023 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: I don't want to threadsit, but I do want to speak to community, as I think it's very relevant, and I forgot to talk about it in my question
community is something I really want! but have never really had. I was part of a book store community where I live (tier 3 chinese city) but for various reasons, that ended and I'm not in a great position to find community here. we will likely be moving within 3-6 months (Tokyo or Vancouver, depending on how visa stuff works out), and a big priority in those places will be trying to find a bit of community
that said, as rajahking correctly pointed out, my interests all tend to be pretty insular. one nice thing about languages is that especially once you're more fluent, it can be a gateway to meeting new people and having meaningful interactions with them (fwiw, I can interact with native speakers very naturally in spanish and mandarin, and am very close to that with japanese). but beyond that, my interests are all pretty singular, which...is not something I love! I would love to find some community around anime, for example, but it's just been...really hard to do online.
I will probably make more of a concerted effort wherever I move to find some community around this stuff, and I think that will help provide some framing, as making is social/communal will make it feel less of a waste of time. still...that's not easy. especially for things like I don't know...visual novels, which are already fairly esoteric.
and as far as "why" I do these things...that is a very good question and I need to think about that. honestly I don't have a great answer. I just love knowing things. I love being good at things. that's probably why it can be hard to narrow things down! but as I've gotten older I think I've gotten more wary at learning things "just because"...not because I don't enjoy it, but because I don't have community, and it can feel like sometimes I learn things only to then slowly forget them. it also burns me out, because learning for its own sake is great, but like...there is a lot to learn. at one point I really was giving myself essentially a sort of self-styled PhD curriculum in some various cs subjects, and I sort of burnt out exactly because I didn't have like...a clear goal. the lack of a clear goal meant that my goal was "know everything" which of course, is impossible, and I ended up burning out hard (though I did learn a lot in the process, heh).
I do think community would really, really help. or a more concrete "why" than "because it's interesting." because there is simply too much interesting stuff! but for better or worse I've been pretty awful at finding community period, especially around my interests. I would love nothing more than have some friends that I chat about anime and manga with...I had that for a few years here and losing it was extremely painful. I do hope to look for that sort of thing again after we move
posted by wooh at 8:14 AM on April 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
community is something I really want! but have never really had. I was part of a book store community where I live (tier 3 chinese city) but for various reasons, that ended and I'm not in a great position to find community here. we will likely be moving within 3-6 months (Tokyo or Vancouver, depending on how visa stuff works out), and a big priority in those places will be trying to find a bit of community
that said, as rajahking correctly pointed out, my interests all tend to be pretty insular. one nice thing about languages is that especially once you're more fluent, it can be a gateway to meeting new people and having meaningful interactions with them (fwiw, I can interact with native speakers very naturally in spanish and mandarin, and am very close to that with japanese). but beyond that, my interests are all pretty singular, which...is not something I love! I would love to find some community around anime, for example, but it's just been...really hard to do online.
I will probably make more of a concerted effort wherever I move to find some community around this stuff, and I think that will help provide some framing, as making is social/communal will make it feel less of a waste of time. still...that's not easy. especially for things like I don't know...visual novels, which are already fairly esoteric.
and as far as "why" I do these things...that is a very good question and I need to think about that. honestly I don't have a great answer. I just love knowing things. I love being good at things. that's probably why it can be hard to narrow things down! but as I've gotten older I think I've gotten more wary at learning things "just because"...not because I don't enjoy it, but because I don't have community, and it can feel like sometimes I learn things only to then slowly forget them. it also burns me out, because learning for its own sake is great, but like...there is a lot to learn. at one point I really was giving myself essentially a sort of self-styled PhD curriculum in some various cs subjects, and I sort of burnt out exactly because I didn't have like...a clear goal. the lack of a clear goal meant that my goal was "know everything" which of course, is impossible, and I ended up burning out hard (though I did learn a lot in the process, heh).
I do think community would really, really help. or a more concrete "why" than "because it's interesting." because there is simply too much interesting stuff! but for better or worse I've been pretty awful at finding community period, especially around my interests. I would love nothing more than have some friends that I chat about anime and manga with...I had that for a few years here and losing it was extremely painful. I do hope to look for that sort of thing again after we move
posted by wooh at 8:14 AM on April 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
With the heavy caveat that I haven't read either of these (how does one make the time for reading etc etc) I've seen these books recommended before, possibly here, and they sound relevant:
* Barbara Sher - What Do I Do When I Want To Do Everything?
* Margaret Lobenstine - The Renaissance Soul: Life Design for People with Too Many Passions to Pick Just One
posted by fabius at 8:35 AM on April 7, 2023 [5 favorites]
* Barbara Sher - What Do I Do When I Want To Do Everything?
* Margaret Lobenstine - The Renaissance Soul: Life Design for People with Too Many Passions to Pick Just One
posted by fabius at 8:35 AM on April 7, 2023 [5 favorites]
Wow, I could have written this ask, right down to programming and language pursuits. I see this jumping around from interest to interest as a part of myself that’s just not going to change so I’ve reframed a lot of my thinking around this over the years. Rather than beat yourself up about what you should be doing, try to see the advantages in this aspect of yourself.
The phrase “follow the dopamine” has stuck with me. You pursue a wide range of interesting things, sometimes quite deeply. Sometimes this leads nowhere but often this breadth of knowledge will be relevant at an unforeseen time in the future and in the mean time you probably accomplish a lot and have a lot of fun.
Another book that helped me make peace with this was “Range” by David Epstein.
posted by whisper_robin at 8:51 AM on April 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
The phrase “follow the dopamine” has stuck with me. You pursue a wide range of interesting things, sometimes quite deeply. Sometimes this leads nowhere but often this breadth of knowledge will be relevant at an unforeseen time in the future and in the mean time you probably accomplish a lot and have a lot of fun.
Another book that helped me make peace with this was “Range” by David Epstein.
posted by whisper_robin at 8:51 AM on April 7, 2023 [1 favorite]
Came in to recommend Barbara Sher's books - she has lots of useful ideas for people that like to pursue a lot of different interests.
posted by crocomancer at 9:10 AM on April 7, 2023
posted by crocomancer at 9:10 AM on April 7, 2023
Oddly, the book _The Now Habit_ might be a little useful despite being framed for people with the opposite problem. AIUI, you schedule yourself for a very modest and achievable but regular amount of time on the thing you don’t naturally do, and then let yourself follow your instincts the rest of the time.
posted by clew at 9:10 AM on April 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by clew at 9:10 AM on April 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
I too am an autodidactic generalist, and I can say this: even after being a single parent, freelancing on top of my FT job, relocating and starting over socially & w/networks, etc., it is harder now to make my downtime "pay off" than it ever was before.
All the things that used to operate in the background (politics, tech, the economy, healthcare, just keeping your phone working the way you want it to...) now call for a learning curve and daily attention; things that used to happen in discrete blocks (socializing, work) now happen 24/7; where we used to have mutually agreed upon sources of valid information, discerning signals and separating them from the endless, relentless noise now takes effort and intention; etc.
It all takes time and it depletes the mental energy that we used to devote to our own lives. I think of it in the same way as wages: even when they increase, the cost of living increases faster, leaving you with less buying power.
I say all this because you sound apologetic and even embarrassed that you seem to have more time than the average person. None of us have the time we used to have.
So to answer your question:
I plan my time by week to include specific amounts of time to do the things I want to do: 6 hours a week on my house which I'm renovating myself and learning as I go; 3 hours a week studying linguistics, etc. Then I put it all on my work calendar so it doesn't accidentally overlap with obligations and so I can't let it slide. I have some medical things of the zebra variety going on too, so there's a lot of extracurricular brain drain happening and some weeks there isn't space for linguistics; planning ahead allows me to anticipate that and plan something physical/creative for balance during those hours instead, instead of beating myself up afterward for lacking grit/commitment/follow-through.
I also put time for TV/movies on the calendar. I'm an unrepentant TV/movie watcher; I find the same kind of value in well-made TV/movies as I do in novels so I include it in my calendar not to limit it, but to savor it. YMMV.
As for doing nothing, maybe making a research project out of it would make you feel better about taking steps to do it. You're clearly goal-oriented, so make learning to do nothing a goal just like anything else. There are tons of studies on the restorative benefits of doing nothing.
I can't speak to the communities aspect of it, as I'm a cynical GenXer and plum wore out on people. I spent a lot of years socializing on my kids' behalf and networking after hours, all with people who are perfectly nice but generally not those I'd have chosen to spend time with otherwise. So I choose carefully and curate my social time like anything else.
posted by headnsouth at 9:13 AM on April 7, 2023 [7 favorites]
All the things that used to operate in the background (politics, tech, the economy, healthcare, just keeping your phone working the way you want it to...) now call for a learning curve and daily attention; things that used to happen in discrete blocks (socializing, work) now happen 24/7; where we used to have mutually agreed upon sources of valid information, discerning signals and separating them from the endless, relentless noise now takes effort and intention; etc.
It all takes time and it depletes the mental energy that we used to devote to our own lives. I think of it in the same way as wages: even when they increase, the cost of living increases faster, leaving you with less buying power.
I say all this because you sound apologetic and even embarrassed that you seem to have more time than the average person. None of us have the time we used to have.
So to answer your question:
I plan my time by week to include specific amounts of time to do the things I want to do: 6 hours a week on my house which I'm renovating myself and learning as I go; 3 hours a week studying linguistics, etc. Then I put it all on my work calendar so it doesn't accidentally overlap with obligations and so I can't let it slide. I have some medical things of the zebra variety going on too, so there's a lot of extracurricular brain drain happening and some weeks there isn't space for linguistics; planning ahead allows me to anticipate that and plan something physical/creative for balance during those hours instead, instead of beating myself up afterward for lacking grit/commitment/follow-through.
I also put time for TV/movies on the calendar. I'm an unrepentant TV/movie watcher; I find the same kind of value in well-made TV/movies as I do in novels so I include it in my calendar not to limit it, but to savor it. YMMV.
As for doing nothing, maybe making a research project out of it would make you feel better about taking steps to do it. You're clearly goal-oriented, so make learning to do nothing a goal just like anything else. There are tons of studies on the restorative benefits of doing nothing.
I can't speak to the communities aspect of it, as I'm a cynical GenXer and plum wore out on people. I spent a lot of years socializing on my kids' behalf and networking after hours, all with people who are perfectly nice but generally not those I'd have chosen to spend time with otherwise. So I choose carefully and curate my social time like anything else.
posted by headnsouth at 9:13 AM on April 7, 2023 [7 favorites]
I love this question, because my brain is similar, and I have a few thoughts!
1. Schedule your free time, including "do nothing" time. You can balance your different activities by giving yourself a time limit on how much you spend on each one. I also recommend building in blocks where you do absolutely nothing, or whatever you feel like.
2. Trick your brain by turning leisure into a project. Make lists of anime series and VNs and books you want to watch/read/play and check them off, as you go, but also get comfortable with adding and removing things from the lists as your interests and preferences change. You could theoretically "project-ize" this a little more by committing to writing a short little review of each one or making a list of things you liked and disliked.
3. Even your list of what a more "chill" life would include feels like a lot, so I think it's okay to prioritize, and start with whatever is bringing you joy right now. When I'm obsessed with a video game, that kind of is where I spend all my time. I don't read or watch YouTube as much. But I've also tried to embrace the idea that it's not bad to decide that you're bored with this anime or that book or VN and move on to something else without finishing.
wooh: stay informed somehow?
I subscribe to 3-4 email newsletters with a combination of local news, national news, and hobby/interest news, and that's my news diet for the day. I strongly encourage you to let go of the 24 hour news cycle. It's a stress factory. I'm particularly glad you got off of Twitter because I think Twitter is the most stressful and least helpful way to consume news. I also would question why you feel like you need to keep up with US current events specifically, at least beyond the "what party is in power/did a major disaster happen" level, if you live in China and are moving to either Japan or Canada. Is it because you have personal/family ties to the US, or is it because somewhere (...was it also Twitter?) you've internalized the idea that you have to keep track of US news to be a good, caring person?
posted by capricorn at 9:50 AM on April 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
1. Schedule your free time, including "do nothing" time. You can balance your different activities by giving yourself a time limit on how much you spend on each one. I also recommend building in blocks where you do absolutely nothing, or whatever you feel like.
2. Trick your brain by turning leisure into a project. Make lists of anime series and VNs and books you want to watch/read/play and check them off, as you go, but also get comfortable with adding and removing things from the lists as your interests and preferences change. You could theoretically "project-ize" this a little more by committing to writing a short little review of each one or making a list of things you liked and disliked.
3. Even your list of what a more "chill" life would include feels like a lot, so I think it's okay to prioritize, and start with whatever is bringing you joy right now. When I'm obsessed with a video game, that kind of is where I spend all my time. I don't read or watch YouTube as much. But I've also tried to embrace the idea that it's not bad to decide that you're bored with this anime or that book or VN and move on to something else without finishing.
wooh: stay informed somehow?
I subscribe to 3-4 email newsletters with a combination of local news, national news, and hobby/interest news, and that's my news diet for the day. I strongly encourage you to let go of the 24 hour news cycle. It's a stress factory. I'm particularly glad you got off of Twitter because I think Twitter is the most stressful and least helpful way to consume news. I also would question why you feel like you need to keep up with US current events specifically, at least beyond the "what party is in power/did a major disaster happen" level, if you live in China and are moving to either Japan or Canada. Is it because you have personal/family ties to the US, or is it because somewhere (...was it also Twitter?) you've internalized the idea that you have to keep track of US news to be a good, caring person?
posted by capricorn at 9:50 AM on April 7, 2023 [2 favorites]
How's your self-esteem and self regard? Do you see yourself as worthy of leisure and pleasure? I ask in part because I've been having some long conversations with a very good friend about their similar approach to activities, and they've been realizing that they sometimes think they have to keep busy all the time, even when not working, because they don't always feel good about themselves, like they somehow are obligated to be busy and always doing something because they aren't really a good person. It bleeds into our time together, when they have been so stressed and anxious about a "hobby" that they've been distracted even when we are just hanging out. It's also related to anxiety and depression, I think.
So I'm not sure what's going on with you, but I can share a few things my friend has been reflecting on:
Have you heard of productivity culture or hustle culture? Especially when it bleeds into the way you think about leisure time, it can leave you feeling like you are always supposed to be doing something "productive," that leisure and relaxing are a waste of time. I see you touching on the edges of this, when you try to figure out if something is fun and leisure. (And while this stuff isn't always generational, I know some folks in their 30s really struggle with this.)
How to cultivate joy. Sure, it's okay that sometimes we want to learn or do something that is difficult, and we have to muddle or work through the challenges -- learning a new sport or language can be a grind, even if it gives us joy -- but it's also okay to pursue things that don't require us to muddle through. Pleasure can be its own pursuit. What actually makes you feel good? (Beyond, "learning something new so I can feel smart.")
I'd also encourage you to think about your life goals for outside of work. So you say you want community. That can take real time and intention, and it can involve feeling vulnerable to other people, which can be rewarding when it pays off, but also doesn't feel great if, for example, you aren't quite finding people to connect with. Is immersing yourself in these activities a way to avoid being vulnerable in other situations?
posted by bluedaisy at 12:01 PM on April 7, 2023
So I'm not sure what's going on with you, but I can share a few things my friend has been reflecting on:
Have you heard of productivity culture or hustle culture? Especially when it bleeds into the way you think about leisure time, it can leave you feeling like you are always supposed to be doing something "productive," that leisure and relaxing are a waste of time. I see you touching on the edges of this, when you try to figure out if something is fun and leisure. (And while this stuff isn't always generational, I know some folks in their 30s really struggle with this.)
How to cultivate joy. Sure, it's okay that sometimes we want to learn or do something that is difficult, and we have to muddle or work through the challenges -- learning a new sport or language can be a grind, even if it gives us joy -- but it's also okay to pursue things that don't require us to muddle through. Pleasure can be its own pursuit. What actually makes you feel good? (Beyond, "learning something new so I can feel smart.")
I'd also encourage you to think about your life goals for outside of work. So you say you want community. That can take real time and intention, and it can involve feeling vulnerable to other people, which can be rewarding when it pays off, but also doesn't feel great if, for example, you aren't quite finding people to connect with. Is immersing yourself in these activities a way to avoid being vulnerable in other situations?
posted by bluedaisy at 12:01 PM on April 7, 2023
Are there ways to tone down the productivity angle but leverage your brain’s Quest For Deep Knowledge in the having of less-productive fun?
What about learning about the history of comics/animation - Scott McCloud’s Understanding Comics is great, but I bet there are incredible books/documentaries to watch about the history of comics/animation in Japan specifically. Have you read comics or manga in Japanese? An old friend loved Usagi Yojimbo and Tezuka’s Buddha series. Do you go to language meetups or have an italki language partner? You could keep up on news with podcasts for language learners - NHK has a news-in-simple-Japanese site that looks as though it has both reading and listening components.
In short, instead of trying to fight this intense focus/curiosity/commitment and Chill Out Like Other People, why not embrace it and see if you can let it bring you life-awesomeness that isn’t about productivity or achievement?
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 2:44 PM on April 7, 2023
What about learning about the history of comics/animation - Scott McCloud’s Understanding Comics is great, but I bet there are incredible books/documentaries to watch about the history of comics/animation in Japan specifically. Have you read comics or manga in Japanese? An old friend loved Usagi Yojimbo and Tezuka’s Buddha series. Do you go to language meetups or have an italki language partner? You could keep up on news with podcasts for language learners - NHK has a news-in-simple-Japanese site that looks as though it has both reading and listening components.
In short, instead of trying to fight this intense focus/curiosity/commitment and Chill Out Like Other People, why not embrace it and see if you can let it bring you life-awesomeness that isn’t about productivity or achievement?
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 2:44 PM on April 7, 2023
have any methods of framing this sort of thing worked for you? how do you think about how you spend your time? in particular, how do you think about "productive" personal pursuits vs "unproductive" ones
My attitude is that anything that brings me joy, or is relaxing, or scratches an itch my brain happens to have, is not "unproductive" or a waste of time. No-one gets to tell me what to do with my own time. And the same goes for you - if you find joy in self study and want to do nothing but that in your free time, then do that and don't let anyone make you feel bad about it. But also, if you deep down want to watch anime in all your free time, then also do that and don't feel guilty!
I also have more things I want to do than I have time for. You would class most of these as unproductive but I think the principles of prioritisation are similar. It's great that you're thinking about advancing 3-4 interests at once. That means you can choose a few things! If it were me, I'd choose different things - eg one creative, one "serious" study, one practical and one frivolous (however you would define those things). These things could work together eg watching shows in the language you're learning *is* self development even if its a telenovela or anime.
How to choose? There's ideas above. If there's things you want to do more, do those even if they aren't as "useful" or whatever. If you want to do everything about equally, then you'll be satisfied with whatever you choose, and if you really can't decide you might as well roll a dice. Keep a list of what you didn't choose to do first time round, and tell yourself you'll come back to them. Then focus on what you are doing, not what you aren't (easier said than done, I know). As soon as you're not being fulfilled/loving/progressing (whatever your criteria are) in your chosen activity, drop it and move on to something else.
posted by pianissimo at 7:16 PM on April 7, 2023
My attitude is that anything that brings me joy, or is relaxing, or scratches an itch my brain happens to have, is not "unproductive" or a waste of time. No-one gets to tell me what to do with my own time. And the same goes for you - if you find joy in self study and want to do nothing but that in your free time, then do that and don't let anyone make you feel bad about it. But also, if you deep down want to watch anime in all your free time, then also do that and don't feel guilty!
I also have more things I want to do than I have time for. You would class most of these as unproductive but I think the principles of prioritisation are similar. It's great that you're thinking about advancing 3-4 interests at once. That means you can choose a few things! If it were me, I'd choose different things - eg one creative, one "serious" study, one practical and one frivolous (however you would define those things). These things could work together eg watching shows in the language you're learning *is* self development even if its a telenovela or anime.
How to choose? There's ideas above. If there's things you want to do more, do those even if they aren't as "useful" or whatever. If you want to do everything about equally, then you'll be satisfied with whatever you choose, and if you really can't decide you might as well roll a dice. Keep a list of what you didn't choose to do first time round, and tell yourself you'll come back to them. Then focus on what you are doing, not what you aren't (easier said than done, I know). As soon as you're not being fulfilled/loving/progressing (whatever your criteria are) in your chosen activity, drop it and move on to something else.
posted by pianissimo at 7:16 PM on April 7, 2023
I recently read a book that might help you think through some of this: Celeste Headlee, Do Nothing: How to Break Away from Overworking, Overdoing, and Underliving.
posted by leftover_scrabble_rack at 5:45 AM on April 8, 2023
posted by leftover_scrabble_rack at 5:45 AM on April 8, 2023
Your question/dilemma is something I have struggled with. I have the spreadsheet of potential hobbies cross-referenced against all the 'purposes' they would serve me, and a subsequent ranking system... If there is someone who is going to overanalyze 'fun', that would be me.
What I have found useful: a complete time out. Stop, just stop. You're clearly self-driven and curious, which is fabulous! But does everything have to serve a purpose? If it does, then can you make one of your purposes "To make/keep me happy"? Because honestly, the world could use more happy people.
Seconding Barbara Sher (in summary: "look at your life as different periods, and determine the best times to pursue your different interests") and Eisenhower Matrix-ing as valuable strategies.
But honestly? You're overthinking this. Take a time out and listen to your gut/heart. Ask yourself, "What is the kindest thing I can do for myself right now?" And really listen. The answer(s) will rise to your attention.
As a side note, the interests I've pursued with no practical purpose in mind have inevitably ended up useful later in ways I never could have imagined. YMMV.
posted by sazanka at 1:20 PM on April 9, 2023
What I have found useful: a complete time out. Stop, just stop. You're clearly self-driven and curious, which is fabulous! But does everything have to serve a purpose? If it does, then can you make one of your purposes "To make/keep me happy"? Because honestly, the world could use more happy people.
Seconding Barbara Sher (in summary: "look at your life as different periods, and determine the best times to pursue your different interests") and Eisenhower Matrix-ing as valuable strategies.
But honestly? You're overthinking this. Take a time out and listen to your gut/heart. Ask yourself, "What is the kindest thing I can do for myself right now?" And really listen. The answer(s) will rise to your attention.
As a side note, the interests I've pursued with no practical purpose in mind have inevitably ended up useful later in ways I never could have imagined. YMMV.
posted by sazanka at 1:20 PM on April 9, 2023
One thing that might be helpful is have a list of all of the things that you would like to do with your free time. Include both productive and unproductive ideas. Then go back through and list which ones you would like to do "soon" and which can wait until "later". Then look at your "soon" list and divide into the things that you would like to be doing "now" (not today necessarily but to spend some time on it within the next month) and then the rest of "soon" list become your "up next" list - not right now but add in as you have time.
Then once a month, go back over the entire list, reflect on how you actually chose to spend your time and up date the categories as needed. If you spend no time on something, does that mean that it should be shifted to "up next" or "later" or does that mean you really want to make time for it now? The point is not to beat yourself up if you spend the time differently but rather to notice how you actually spend your time and how that related to your interests and priorities.
One of the big benefits of the system is that things marked "later" are not forgotten- once a month you honor them by think about them and decide if they should still be on your list even if you know you aren't going to get it it any time soon.
posted by metahawk at 5:32 PM on April 9, 2023 [2 favorites]
Then once a month, go back over the entire list, reflect on how you actually chose to spend your time and up date the categories as needed. If you spend no time on something, does that mean that it should be shifted to "up next" or "later" or does that mean you really want to make time for it now? The point is not to beat yourself up if you spend the time differently but rather to notice how you actually spend your time and how that related to your interests and priorities.
One of the big benefits of the system is that things marked "later" are not forgotten- once a month you honor them by think about them and decide if they should still be on your list even if you know you aren't going to get it it any time soon.
posted by metahawk at 5:32 PM on April 9, 2023 [2 favorites]
I posted a very similar question in 2019. People recommended Barbara Sher, but I wish they had recommended "Taking Charge of Adult Adhd", so I'm going to recommend it to you.
Even if you don't have adhd, it will be fascinating to you. It's a dive into how the brain manages and directs ideas, inspiration, and interest.
I will also mention that a component of adhd that is being studied is "rejection sensitivity disphoria". Basically, because kids with adhd fail when they are expected to succeed, we experience failure at a key moment in our development, and are forever on high alert for any type of rejection. Even if you don't have adhd, you may learn something useful from the experiences of people like me.
Learning about all this has helped me supercharge my super powers. I'm close to starting a business, I'm working towards big dreams that I never got around to before.
And, yeah, a lot of people just don't get it. I'm sorry you got bad advice last time you posted. I love talking about brain stuff.
posted by rebent at 7:44 PM on April 9, 2023 [1 favorite]
Even if you don't have adhd, it will be fascinating to you. It's a dive into how the brain manages and directs ideas, inspiration, and interest.
I will also mention that a component of adhd that is being studied is "rejection sensitivity disphoria". Basically, because kids with adhd fail when they are expected to succeed, we experience failure at a key moment in our development, and are forever on high alert for any type of rejection. Even if you don't have adhd, you may learn something useful from the experiences of people like me.
Learning about all this has helped me supercharge my super powers. I'm close to starting a business, I'm working towards big dreams that I never got around to before.
And, yeah, a lot of people just don't get it. I'm sorry you got bad advice last time you posted. I love talking about brain stuff.
posted by rebent at 7:44 PM on April 9, 2023 [1 favorite]
Hello! Please read and watch Monster, it is an anime and a manga that is directly related to your interests and Dr. Tenma has to definitely fight with some terrible decision making that completely altered his life. And then you can MeMail me and we can talk about it!
(I literally have your opposite problem and I just keep adding and doing lots of stuff with no concern about whether it is useful or meaningful, I just care if I find it interesting and if it helps me and others. I just do it and do almost too much and then it ends up being a very meaningful community mashup! So would be fun to talk.)
posted by yueliang at 5:20 PM on April 11, 2023
(I literally have your opposite problem and I just keep adding and doing lots of stuff with no concern about whether it is useful or meaningful, I just care if I find it interesting and if it helps me and others. I just do it and do almost too much and then it ends up being a very meaningful community mashup! So would be fun to talk.)
posted by yueliang at 5:20 PM on April 11, 2023
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posted by kevinbelt at 7:38 AM on April 7, 2023