veterinary anger
January 10, 2023 8:35 AM Subscribe
Maybe I'm just in a bad mood after my previous question, or maybe it's because of my job (I'll explain inside), but I just caught something on some older vet records for my cat and I am really upset and don't know if I should say something to them or not.
Let's start with this: I work for a company that manages veterinary practices. I interact with vets, vet techs, and employees at practices on a daily basis. The practices I am responsible for (as their dedicated accountant) are filled with wonderful, responsible people and I value them and the work they do so much.
Prior to my partner and I relocating further upstate, we adopted a dog. This was like three years ago at this point. When we adopted him, the rescue wanted vet records for my cat, basically to prove we are responsible pet owners. I called my cat's vet at the time to get those records and explained why. I had not been happy with my cat's vet for a while, they were very pushy in trying to convince me to perform procedures on my cat that were unnecessary - for instance, they had pushed hard to extract his fangs for no reason except his age + they acknowledged that his teeth were in good condition and he didn't have gum disease or any cracks in his teeth - basically it seems they have decided that any cat over ten years old needs their fangs taken out for... reasons? My cat gets very stressed at the vet and always needed sedation even to get through an exam because he was so fearful and aggressive in the vet's office (he's a docile gentleman at home) and I did not want to have to put him through an unnecessary tooth extraction just because he already gets so stressed out and with the extra anesthesia required to get him to hold still for an extraction I'd have to pay nearly $1K. I ran the situation by a friend of mine who is a former vet tech and she was completely baffled by the vet's reasoning for the extraction, and ultimately I refused to go through with it because I felt it was unnecessary and a hard sell/cash grab. Kitty's teeth are still fine years later.
ANYWAY, back to the story about adopting the dog. I called the vet for kitty's records to give to the rescue. They were satisfied by the records and approved us for adoption. All well and good. Dog loves cat, cat secretly loves dog but won't admit it bc he has his Cat Cred to protect but we have caught them cuddling repeatedly so we all know the truth 😂
I brought cat in to my new vet here upstate this morning. This vet practice is amazing. They know how to handle cat so well - it's the first practice who has NEVER had to sedate him for an exam (they do a kitty burrito with a blanket to keep him feeling safe). It's his second visit to this vet just for a rabies booster, and New Vet mentioned that they had reached out to Old Vet for his records but hadn't gotten a response.
No worries, I said. I have a copy of his records in my email from when we adopted dog.
I pulled up the records on my phone to email to New Vet. I scanned them over and found something I overlooked when I had them send me the records for the dog rescue three years ago.
Old Vet's last notation on cat's record was that I had requested the records because we wanted to REHOME the cat. They completely misunderstood why I was asking for his records (we are adopting a dog, rescue wants to make sure we are responsible pet owners).
This notation is on cat's records permanently. I explained to New Vet that this notation was incorrect when I emailed them the document, and New Vet was perplexed as to why Old Vet would even notate something like that.
I am hurt and angry. I was already angry at Old Vet for pushing the extraction and this has me so upset. I love my kitty. He's my little buddy. He took care of me during some heavy bouts of depression. In 2015, when I was suicidal, he was the reason why I didn't actually follow through with an attempt. I couldn't fathom leaving him behind. (I'm ok now don't worry.) I would never, ever re-home him.
I am debating whether I should call Old Vet and express that this was an inappropriate thing for them to have written on his chart, and that they obviously don't listen to or respect their clients (they guilted me for MONTHS about refusing the unnecessary extraction). I work with amazing vets and this is so counter to what a responsible vet practice would do.
(NB: neither New Vet or Old Vet is managed by the company I work for.)
I don't know if I should just let this go or say something to Old Vet. I don't know if I'm just being over protective of the kitty, if I'm projecting my deep respect for the vets I work with daily against my bad experiences with Old Vet, or if this is really something to address with them. I know that I will never recommend Old Vet to any of my downstate cat owning friends.
Honestly I love animals more than most people (#sorrynotsorry) so maybe I'm just blinded by my love for pets and am blowing this out of proportion. Please sanity check me.
Let's start with this: I work for a company that manages veterinary practices. I interact with vets, vet techs, and employees at practices on a daily basis. The practices I am responsible for (as their dedicated accountant) are filled with wonderful, responsible people and I value them and the work they do so much.
Prior to my partner and I relocating further upstate, we adopted a dog. This was like three years ago at this point. When we adopted him, the rescue wanted vet records for my cat, basically to prove we are responsible pet owners. I called my cat's vet at the time to get those records and explained why. I had not been happy with my cat's vet for a while, they were very pushy in trying to convince me to perform procedures on my cat that were unnecessary - for instance, they had pushed hard to extract his fangs for no reason except his age + they acknowledged that his teeth were in good condition and he didn't have gum disease or any cracks in his teeth - basically it seems they have decided that any cat over ten years old needs their fangs taken out for... reasons? My cat gets very stressed at the vet and always needed sedation even to get through an exam because he was so fearful and aggressive in the vet's office (he's a docile gentleman at home) and I did not want to have to put him through an unnecessary tooth extraction just because he already gets so stressed out and with the extra anesthesia required to get him to hold still for an extraction I'd have to pay nearly $1K. I ran the situation by a friend of mine who is a former vet tech and she was completely baffled by the vet's reasoning for the extraction, and ultimately I refused to go through with it because I felt it was unnecessary and a hard sell/cash grab. Kitty's teeth are still fine years later.
ANYWAY, back to the story about adopting the dog. I called the vet for kitty's records to give to the rescue. They were satisfied by the records and approved us for adoption. All well and good. Dog loves cat, cat secretly loves dog but won't admit it bc he has his Cat Cred to protect but we have caught them cuddling repeatedly so we all know the truth 😂
I brought cat in to my new vet here upstate this morning. This vet practice is amazing. They know how to handle cat so well - it's the first practice who has NEVER had to sedate him for an exam (they do a kitty burrito with a blanket to keep him feeling safe). It's his second visit to this vet just for a rabies booster, and New Vet mentioned that they had reached out to Old Vet for his records but hadn't gotten a response.
No worries, I said. I have a copy of his records in my email from when we adopted dog.
I pulled up the records on my phone to email to New Vet. I scanned them over and found something I overlooked when I had them send me the records for the dog rescue three years ago.
Old Vet's last notation on cat's record was that I had requested the records because we wanted to REHOME the cat. They completely misunderstood why I was asking for his records (we are adopting a dog, rescue wants to make sure we are responsible pet owners).
This notation is on cat's records permanently. I explained to New Vet that this notation was incorrect when I emailed them the document, and New Vet was perplexed as to why Old Vet would even notate something like that.
I am hurt and angry. I was already angry at Old Vet for pushing the extraction and this has me so upset. I love my kitty. He's my little buddy. He took care of me during some heavy bouts of depression. In 2015, when I was suicidal, he was the reason why I didn't actually follow through with an attempt. I couldn't fathom leaving him behind. (I'm ok now don't worry.) I would never, ever re-home him.
I am debating whether I should call Old Vet and express that this was an inappropriate thing for them to have written on his chart, and that they obviously don't listen to or respect their clients (they guilted me for MONTHS about refusing the unnecessary extraction). I work with amazing vets and this is so counter to what a responsible vet practice would do.
(NB: neither New Vet or Old Vet is managed by the company I work for.)
I don't know if I should just let this go or say something to Old Vet. I don't know if I'm just being over protective of the kitty, if I'm projecting my deep respect for the vets I work with daily against my bad experiences with Old Vet, or if this is really something to address with them. I know that I will never recommend Old Vet to any of my downstate cat owning friends.
Honestly I love animals more than most people (#sorrynotsorry) so maybe I'm just blinded by my love for pets and am blowing this out of proportion. Please sanity check me.
This post was deleted for the following reason: posters request -- frimble
Let it go. Misunderstanding, mistake or malice -- it really has no bearing on you or your pets today.
posted by so fucking future at 8:50 AM on January 10, 2023 [12 favorites]
posted by so fucking future at 8:50 AM on January 10, 2023 [12 favorites]
Best answer: Speaking as an equally-fervent dog lover, I would let it go. Confronting Old Vet about it won't help either you or them. You'll end up more frustrated and angry than ever, and Old Vet will probably dismiss you as a dissatisfied ex-client and pay it no mind. If you are still motivated to do something, you could leave a Yelp or Google review for Old Vet specifying their deficiencies and let the internet do its magic. (Oh, and to keep the universe in balance, you should also leave a Yelp or Google review for New Vet too.)
posted by DrGail at 8:51 AM on January 10, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by DrGail at 8:51 AM on January 10, 2023 [6 favorites]
Best answer: Since this does bother you, and since, in addressing errors like this, the systems behind those errors are more likely to be fixed, I actually think you should try to get the record fixed. But not as an angry avenging shaming person -- just let yourself cool down a bit:
Whoever you'd talk to at Old Vet will probably not know why this happened, and will probably not be responsible for the error, and will probably also be horrified, and will probably be slightly uncomfortable with whatever questionable practices they've already witnessed while working there.
Unless all the admin people have already left that practice, and you end up talking to the owner who is also the actual vet you interacted with last time. You probably already know that they are under crazy emotional stress all the time, so, while you have my personal permission to cry over the phone, it should be in that way that makes it clear you're trying not to cry. (You also have my permission to mention your current employer, if you can do so gracefully, as long as you are happy with their ethics -- maybe the real problem here is that this practice is poorly run, and maybe... it could help for that practice to have more resources?)
Anyway, what I would do is call and insist on getting the record corrected. If you get told that's impossible, contact the software company that manages their records system. If you really hit a wall, take or send a paper copy of the records you have to that vet and have them hand-corrected with a pen.
I think it's always important, when practical, to not assume the worst of people. I know you do too, which is why it's so upsetting whey they seem blindly, harmfully, brutishly venal.
What I'm really advocating is not _treating_ them as though you assume they are bad actors; the vast majority of the time they're just ignorant or distracted or focused on personal pressures and pain -- but that doesn't make this kind of thing right, not at all. It just means that they can be dealt with as intelligent compassionate people who made some painful mistakes.
I'm super glad you're not going there anymore (I kind of hope you do hook them up with your management company and it somehow makes things better there, but that's magical thinking and I don't really think it will happen).
posted by amtho at 8:54 AM on January 10, 2023 [4 favorites]
Whoever you'd talk to at Old Vet will probably not know why this happened, and will probably not be responsible for the error, and will probably also be horrified, and will probably be slightly uncomfortable with whatever questionable practices they've already witnessed while working there.
Unless all the admin people have already left that practice, and you end up talking to the owner who is also the actual vet you interacted with last time. You probably already know that they are under crazy emotional stress all the time, so, while you have my personal permission to cry over the phone, it should be in that way that makes it clear you're trying not to cry. (You also have my permission to mention your current employer, if you can do so gracefully, as long as you are happy with their ethics -- maybe the real problem here is that this practice is poorly run, and maybe... it could help for that practice to have more resources?)
Anyway, what I would do is call and insist on getting the record corrected. If you get told that's impossible, contact the software company that manages their records system. If you really hit a wall, take or send a paper copy of the records you have to that vet and have them hand-corrected with a pen.
I think it's always important, when practical, to not assume the worst of people. I know you do too, which is why it's so upsetting whey they seem blindly, harmfully, brutishly venal.
What I'm really advocating is not _treating_ them as though you assume they are bad actors; the vast majority of the time they're just ignorant or distracted or focused on personal pressures and pain -- but that doesn't make this kind of thing right, not at all. It just means that they can be dealt with as intelligent compassionate people who made some painful mistakes.
I'm super glad you're not going there anymore (I kind of hope you do hook them up with your management company and it somehow makes things better there, but that's magical thinking and I don't really think it will happen).
posted by amtho at 8:54 AM on January 10, 2023 [4 favorites]
This sounds like an (unfortunate) misunderstanding. Most likely an innocent mistake. It will not affect you or your cat going forward, and talking to the old vet will likely have no effect. Let it go.
posted by mekily at 8:57 AM on January 10, 2023 [2 favorites]
posted by mekily at 8:57 AM on January 10, 2023 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I would say something to the vet. A phone conversation first (directly with the vet, if possible) and then an email to the practice using the vet's name as the greeting. You can use a lot of what you wrote here to explain your frustration and pointing out the poor treatment your cat received, and especially the suggestion to do an extraction of perfectly good teeth, changing the wording where needed. Things like this shouldn't happen, and by conveying this to the Dr. and practice they would hopefully abate that behavior in the future. My partner has a vet practice and has told horror stories from clients who had other vets tell them of very unnecessary procedures at exorbitant prices. Sometimes vets have a bad day or one off situation, but sometimes they really don't care much about the animals or clients. Go in as emotionally calm as possible, but if it gets upsetting that's okay, you have a right to convey any emotion you want.
posted by waving at 8:58 AM on January 10, 2023
posted by waving at 8:58 AM on January 10, 2023
Best answer: I'm a dog owner, I like my vet a lot, and I have the privilege of being choosy in my pets' care. I read Yelp reviews before choosing my vet.
I would ignore directly contacting your old vet. You already hate them, this isn't going to affect your or your cat's life in any way, and you have years of established history knowing that they aren't going to listen to what you have to say.
So type up--SUCCINCTLY, my god, please stick to the facts--a one paragraph factual summary of the ways that this vet over years of care failed to listen to you or respond realistically to your cat's needs. Then dispassionately post that succinct review onto the vet's page on Yelp, Google, Facebook, and then walk away.
As a pet owner choosing a new vet, I would pay attention to that review and make my vet care choices accordingly.
posted by phunniemee at 9:03 AM on January 10, 2023 [10 favorites]
I would ignore directly contacting your old vet. You already hate them, this isn't going to affect your or your cat's life in any way, and you have years of established history knowing that they aren't going to listen to what you have to say.
So type up--SUCCINCTLY, my god, please stick to the facts--a one paragraph factual summary of the ways that this vet over years of care failed to listen to you or respond realistically to your cat's needs. Then dispassionately post that succinct review onto the vet's page on Yelp, Google, Facebook, and then walk away.
As a pet owner choosing a new vet, I would pay attention to that review and make my vet care choices accordingly.
posted by phunniemee at 9:03 AM on January 10, 2023 [10 favorites]
Best answer: I would correct the record with the *new* vet. Ask for a notation stating that the previous note is an error and that was not ever an option. The people who are going to care for your animals from now on are this practice and the people who get records from this practice. I would be upset too and would focus on making sure the record is right from now on.
posted by saltykitten at 9:04 AM on January 10, 2023 [8 favorites]
posted by saltykitten at 9:04 AM on January 10, 2023 [8 favorites]
If you didn’t have an existing loathing for this vet practice, and this was clearly just an error, would you really care? It’s not like they did something that could have actually led to your cat being adopted against your will. I frankly think that expending any mental energy on this is going to do nothing but make you feel worse. Why dwell on this?
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:09 AM on January 10, 2023 [6 favorites]
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:09 AM on January 10, 2023 [6 favorites]
As a pet owner, I take online reviews of vet practices with a grain of salt because the negative reviews frequently seem to carry very strong emotions that do not always seem 100% rational (for some reason reviews for nail salons are also like this?), and I suspect that any review you'd leave about this situation would give me the same feeling. If I were you, I would be grateful that you like the new vet so much more and move on.
posted by cakelite at 9:22 AM on January 10, 2023 [3 favorites]
posted by cakelite at 9:22 AM on January 10, 2023 [3 favorites]
I wouldn't give the old vet a second more of my time or mental energy in your shoes. You could ask the new vet to place a new in their own record in case you ever need a documentation trail going forward, if you think it will make you feel better - it's probably unlikely to ever get looked at again, and if it ever is you clearly will have the proof that you did not rehome the cat, but it's also a fairly small ask to make so sure, if you want, make it.
But I can't see any harm coming to your beloved friend from this, and that's what actually matters here - your kitty is safe at home with you and partner and dog, has a new medical provider who's doing good work, and Old Vet isn't going to have anything to do with them ever again. You're doing fine, you're taking good care of your cat, and you have this stranger's permission to go spend ten minutes playing with the cat instead of on hold with a shitty old vet who doesn't matter anymore.
posted by Stacey at 9:35 AM on January 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
But I can't see any harm coming to your beloved friend from this, and that's what actually matters here - your kitty is safe at home with you and partner and dog, has a new medical provider who's doing good work, and Old Vet isn't going to have anything to do with them ever again. You're doing fine, you're taking good care of your cat, and you have this stranger's permission to go spend ten minutes playing with the cat instead of on hold with a shitty old vet who doesn't matter anymore.
posted by Stacey at 9:35 AM on January 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
How would you want people to treat you if you made a mistake at work?
Do that. It's fine to ask them to correct it, but it sounds like a simple misunderstanding or error, possibly on the part of someone who was having a bad day.
posted by warriorqueen at 9:54 AM on January 10, 2023 [4 favorites]
Do that. It's fine to ask them to correct it, but it sounds like a simple misunderstanding or error, possibly on the part of someone who was having a bad day.
posted by warriorqueen at 9:54 AM on January 10, 2023 [4 favorites]
I would send the old vet an old-fashioned letter that details the facts of the "rehoming" mistake you've recounted here as dispassionately as possible (omit the tooth-extraction story), and express concern that if they made this mistake, they might be making other mistakes that are more consequential. Not to guilt-trip them or anything like that, but because other people are still presumably using that vet, and if there's any chance this would help the practice straighten up and fly right, it might help some pets.
posted by adamrice at 9:55 AM on January 10, 2023
posted by adamrice at 9:55 AM on January 10, 2023
A misunderstanding from a vet to a tech to an office manager. It has no bearing on your life currently. Let it go.
posted by oneirodynia at 10:10 AM on January 10, 2023 [11 favorites]
posted by oneirodynia at 10:10 AM on January 10, 2023 [11 favorites]
Another vote for a brief, just focused on the facts, Yelp review. Note that they pushed the fang removal and then guilting you for not doing it, despite the fact that the cat's teeth were fine, and no evidence of tooth pain, all of which new vet has confirmed. And then for the second issue, clearly they aren't good at listening to their clients, which is part of their job (I wouldn't take it personally though - this was likely a clerical error). I would focus most of your attention on the first issue - many people try to avoid vets who advocate for unnecessary procedures.
I'd also mention in the review that you work with vets for a living, so you have a better grasp than most on what is acceptable and what is not. Like others, when I move to a new place, I read Yelp reviews when figuring out where to take my cats - your review will help others avoid this vet, who sounds awful.
posted by coffeecat at 10:15 AM on January 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
I'd also mention in the review that you work with vets for a living, so you have a better grasp than most on what is acceptable and what is not. Like others, when I move to a new place, I read Yelp reviews when figuring out where to take my cats - your review will help others avoid this vet, who sounds awful.
posted by coffeecat at 10:15 AM on January 10, 2023 [1 favorite]
Three years ago? I could see if you didn't get the dog because of it, but who has the mental energy to take up a three year old misunderstanding that had no consequence? You don't have to avenge every wrong.
Make sure new vet has it off of Kitty's records or if they can't because it's permanent, add a new entry saying that it was incorrect and let it go.
posted by kimberussell at 10:34 AM on January 10, 2023 [11 favorites]
Make sure new vet has it off of Kitty's records or if they can't because it's permanent, add a new entry saying that it was incorrect and let it go.
posted by kimberussell at 10:34 AM on January 10, 2023 [11 favorites]
Best answer: *You* know you value your cat and would never part with her, and she does, too. The treatment at the previous practice did not harm her. You've made good decisions, and she's been safe, with you, this whole time. I'm glad your family is having a good experience with the new vet.
At the old practice, "rehoming" may have been on a sparse dropdown menu of "reasons to transmit paperwork." The strong unnecessary-procedure pressure, failure to send records to the new practice, and compulsory sedation for visits would raise more alarms, were I to read your online review -- particularly if you mentioned the successful burrito method now in use.
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:14 AM on January 10, 2023 [4 favorites]
At the old practice, "rehoming" may have been on a sparse dropdown menu of "reasons to transmit paperwork." The strong unnecessary-procedure pressure, failure to send records to the new practice, and compulsory sedation for visits would raise more alarms, were I to read your online review -- particularly if you mentioned the successful burrito method now in use.
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:14 AM on January 10, 2023 [4 favorites]
I agree with those who say to write an unemotional facts based review. As a pet owner I would want to know if a vet is pushing unnecessary procedures, even if it happened just the once. If the rest of the reviews were good I would perhaps think of your review as a one off, but still go in with my eyes open. If there are at least one or two other rational sounding reviews that mentioned the same thing, I would avoid that vet.
You'd be doing other pet owners and their pets a service.
posted by newpotato at 1:38 AM on January 11, 2023
You'd be doing other pet owners and their pets a service.
posted by newpotato at 1:38 AM on January 11, 2023
Best answer: I mentioned this post to a friend who worked for a vet office, and they had a take which might help reframe the whole thing:
You DID request the records for rehoming purposes. Rehoming the dog.
Think about it: if the admin who filled this out is selecting reasons from a dropdown, it’s very likely there is no distinct category for “person wants to adopt another animal.” And if they had only a limited selection of options to choose from, it’s entirely likely that “rehoming” was in fact the most accurate of those options to your situation.
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:55 AM on January 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
You DID request the records for rehoming purposes. Rehoming the dog.
Think about it: if the admin who filled this out is selecting reasons from a dropdown, it’s very likely there is no distinct category for “person wants to adopt another animal.” And if they had only a limited selection of options to choose from, it’s entirely likely that “rehoming” was in fact the most accurate of those options to your situation.
posted by showbiz_liz at 9:55 AM on January 11, 2023 [1 favorite]
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posted by slkinsey at 8:49 AM on January 10, 2023 [15 favorites]