Dog Training
December 20, 2022 8:47 AM
I have some questions about training my new pup, Dice. The questions are about the "leave it" command and about potty training. Much, much more inside.
I adopted Dice on December 1st. I started crate training him Tuesday December 6th b/c he was having pee accidents inside. This was on the advice of my cousin, who's a very experienced vet. I would walk him around 7, feed him, a dog walker would come around 11, then I would walk him again at 4 and once before bed. This worked well and he never soiled his crate. However, now I am home for 2 weeks on a break and when he's not crated, he has a lot of pee accidents during what I think are very short intervals after being walked. So I started crating him again. But I feel bad crating him when I'm home and I do want to give him a chance to play in the house. How do I manage wanting him to be happy with continuing potty training? He's peeing more frequently than I'd expect but they tested his urine at the vet and did a bladder ultrasound and all is well. Do I just need to keep crate training hime while I'm home to build up his bladder muscles? Oh also when he goes outside I give him a treat and a lot of praise.
My next question is about the leave it command. On walks, Dice has a tendency to eat a bunch of things, like little pieces of bark and other plant matter and sticks. It's very, very frustrating b/c he's actually eating the stuff, not just chewing, and it makes me very worried about his stomach. This behavior I think has increased. So I started the leave it command where he will be about to pick something up or has already. It's becoming more successful, but he's still kind of doing it a lot. I say leave it in a firm voice and treat immediately. I know it's often paired with "look at me" but he already looks at me. Is this the right way to stop a behavior? I know it's the right way to praise a behavior. I tried to do a leave it exercise with treats and a clicker last night, but I couldn't get to the point of not having to cover the treat with my hand. If I just left the treat there, he gobbled it. He is VERY food motivated (which is good for training).
I would appreciate any help that anyone has at all! Thank you!!!
I adopted Dice on December 1st. I started crate training him Tuesday December 6th b/c he was having pee accidents inside. This was on the advice of my cousin, who's a very experienced vet. I would walk him around 7, feed him, a dog walker would come around 11, then I would walk him again at 4 and once before bed. This worked well and he never soiled his crate. However, now I am home for 2 weeks on a break and when he's not crated, he has a lot of pee accidents during what I think are very short intervals after being walked. So I started crating him again. But I feel bad crating him when I'm home and I do want to give him a chance to play in the house. How do I manage wanting him to be happy with continuing potty training? He's peeing more frequently than I'd expect but they tested his urine at the vet and did a bladder ultrasound and all is well. Do I just need to keep crate training hime while I'm home to build up his bladder muscles? Oh also when he goes outside I give him a treat and a lot of praise.
My next question is about the leave it command. On walks, Dice has a tendency to eat a bunch of things, like little pieces of bark and other plant matter and sticks. It's very, very frustrating b/c he's actually eating the stuff, not just chewing, and it makes me very worried about his stomach. This behavior I think has increased. So I started the leave it command where he will be about to pick something up or has already. It's becoming more successful, but he's still kind of doing it a lot. I say leave it in a firm voice and treat immediately. I know it's often paired with "look at me" but he already looks at me. Is this the right way to stop a behavior? I know it's the right way to praise a behavior. I tried to do a leave it exercise with treats and a clicker last night, but I couldn't get to the point of not having to cover the treat with my hand. If I just left the treat there, he gobbled it. He is VERY food motivated (which is good for training).
I would appreciate any help that anyone has at all! Thank you!!!
I practice leave it (and drop it and stop) a lot with my dogs because it's a true life saving command. I do it inside with toys and treats while having fun.
Leave the treat? You get a better treat.
Drop the toy? You get a treat.
Stop immediately when I say so? You get a treat.
So much high voice attention and praise as soon as the command is followed. Etc.
I do it a little bit throughout the week, so it's less training and more of a little game we play that they're used to. Then when we're out and about, it's much easier to use. No one's doing anything wrong, we're just having fun again like we do all the time.
The only time drop it has failed me is when I didn't notice a chicken wing discarded in the grass. Hard to beat a chicken wing honestly. But drop it did at least make my dog pause a moment, long enough for me to yoink in and grab the wing out of his mouth.
posted by phunniemee at 9:13 AM on December 20, 2022
Leave the treat? You get a better treat.
Drop the toy? You get a treat.
Stop immediately when I say so? You get a treat.
So much high voice attention and praise as soon as the command is followed. Etc.
I do it a little bit throughout the week, so it's less training and more of a little game we play that they're used to. Then when we're out and about, it's much easier to use. No one's doing anything wrong, we're just having fun again like we do all the time.
The only time drop it has failed me is when I didn't notice a chicken wing discarded in the grass. Hard to beat a chicken wing honestly. But drop it did at least make my dog pause a moment, long enough for me to yoink in and grab the wing out of his mouth.
posted by phunniemee at 9:13 AM on December 20, 2022
For the peeing, one option is basically to keep him on a lead with you while you are at home, and at any sign of lifting his leg, take him out immediately. A bit of a pain in the butt, but shouldn't take more than a day or two.
(I have not done this. But Victoria, a dog trainer who had a show whose name escapes me at the moment, did this successfully with at least two dogs I remember.)
Criminally adorable, that one.
posted by Glinn at 9:18 AM on December 20, 2022
(I have not done this. But Victoria, a dog trainer who had a show whose name escapes me at the moment, did this successfully with at least two dogs I remember.)
Criminally adorable, that one.
posted by Glinn at 9:18 AM on December 20, 2022
An exercise pen attached to the crate can be a godsend for potty training. One of the reasons that the crate works is that they don't want to soil their home. You can extend the real estate of what the puppy considers "home" by putting an exercise pen on the crate and slowly making the pen bigger over time. Then you can trust them in a small room alone, and then they will graduate to being able to march around the whole house without soiling.
I received the advice not to train with puppy pads, and I'm really glad I didn't do that, but I do live in a walk-up, and getting Fresh Patches for the balcony really helped for the 2:00 a.m. or emergency potty runs. I only had to do this for a month or two.
When you catch your dog going in the house, taking the pup outside ASAP can help make the connection. And give super high value treats and lots and lots of praise when they do potty outside, for way longer than it seems like you should. My little guy is just over a year and he still occasionally gets treats outside after potty, especially when we are gearing up to go away or when we are coming back from a trip, because changes in his environment tend to still make him have one or two accidents before he settles in.
Also, I use just bits of dry kibble for regular boring training stuff, things my puppy is really good at, etc. I break out the cheese or sometimes even pieces of salmon for stuff that's really important. Try doing "leave it" with his absolute favorite treat and he will learn it.
One thing I wish I had done when my puppy was very little was Karen Overall's relaxation protocol (PDF). We do it a lot now, but I wish I had started much earlier.
posted by twelve cent archie at 9:26 AM on December 20, 2022
I received the advice not to train with puppy pads, and I'm really glad I didn't do that, but I do live in a walk-up, and getting Fresh Patches for the balcony really helped for the 2:00 a.m. or emergency potty runs. I only had to do this for a month or two.
When you catch your dog going in the house, taking the pup outside ASAP can help make the connection. And give super high value treats and lots and lots of praise when they do potty outside, for way longer than it seems like you should. My little guy is just over a year and he still occasionally gets treats outside after potty, especially when we are gearing up to go away or when we are coming back from a trip, because changes in his environment tend to still make him have one or two accidents before he settles in.
Also, I use just bits of dry kibble for regular boring training stuff, things my puppy is really good at, etc. I break out the cheese or sometimes even pieces of salmon for stuff that's really important. Try doing "leave it" with his absolute favorite treat and he will learn it.
One thing I wish I had done when my puppy was very little was Karen Overall's relaxation protocol (PDF). We do it a lot now, but I wish I had started much earlier.
posted by twelve cent archie at 9:26 AM on December 20, 2022
Set a timer when he's inside, something shorter than the amount of time it takes for him to pee. Whenever it goes off, take him outside and let him pee. Praise and reward when that happens, then right back inside. Repeat.
We used 15 minutes with our puppy when we brought her home, and expanded from there as she grew. Worked well, takes a lot of time and consistency.
posted by Pantengliopoli at 10:30 AM on December 20, 2022
We used 15 minutes with our puppy when we brought her home, and expanded from there as she grew. Worked well, takes a lot of time and consistency.
posted by Pantengliopoli at 10:30 AM on December 20, 2022
So sorry, but I forgot to add--Dice is not a puppy. Though I feel like I'm training a puppy! He is a rescue estimated to be 1-2 years old by our vet. But this probably doesn't change anything except how long I *think* he should be able to hold it which is not really helpful.
posted by bookworm4125 at 12:39 PM on December 20, 2022
posted by bookworm4125 at 12:39 PM on December 20, 2022
Dice looks like a sweet baby puppy!! The youth disguise fooled me. My advice is also all the same except you can probably skip the Fresh Pads. And especially start doing the relaxation protocol as it will really pay dividends beyond getting him to settle. It definitely helps my dog pay more attention to me in general and enhances his ability to drop it, leave it, settle, etc.
posted by twelve cent archie at 12:56 PM on December 20, 2022
posted by twelve cent archie at 12:56 PM on December 20, 2022
Oceano, no he never marks. He always squats to pee.
posted by bookworm4125 at 3:30 PM on December 20, 2022
posted by bookworm4125 at 3:30 PM on December 20, 2022
Congrats on adopting Dice! What a wonderful, cute addition :)
+1 on exercise pens and gates, leashing, or somehow limiting the area. We added a room at a time after a month without potty accidents. Also structure in the day helps a lot!
In addition to teaching “leave it,” we use a variety of other methods that are quick and easy-to-learn to help manage the short-term now (before he’s nailed leave it). Magnet hand is one, though might be a little trickier with a little one. We carried a wooden spoon with peanut butter for our shortie on walks for a little bit. The trick is to be scanning ahead and luring away from the thing.
We also use 1-2-3 (and then throw a treat further away) which works since she loves chasing after food and movement. Start with training 3 and treat, and then adding 2 before 3, and then 1-2-3. In new environments, start with just 3 first. Works for other distractions like dogs and humans too.
Love the relaxation protocol, particularly if you have an energetic dog. We also trained zen bowl, which helps with impulse control. I guess it’s how we’ve worked up to “leave it.” You start with covering a kibble on the floor with your hand, and when they stop sniffing and trying to get at it, mark and treat. Start removing your hand once that’s solid. Add in complexity like multiple kibbles, putting it in a bowl, getting more distance, new environments, etc. You can also see if they’ll magnet hand walk around the bowl, etc.
posted by sincerely yours at 11:09 PM on December 20, 2022
+1 on exercise pens and gates, leashing, or somehow limiting the area. We added a room at a time after a month without potty accidents. Also structure in the day helps a lot!
In addition to teaching “leave it,” we use a variety of other methods that are quick and easy-to-learn to help manage the short-term now (before he’s nailed leave it). Magnet hand is one, though might be a little trickier with a little one. We carried a wooden spoon with peanut butter for our shortie on walks for a little bit. The trick is to be scanning ahead and luring away from the thing.
We also use 1-2-3 (and then throw a treat further away) which works since she loves chasing after food and movement. Start with training 3 and treat, and then adding 2 before 3, and then 1-2-3. In new environments, start with just 3 first. Works for other distractions like dogs and humans too.
Love the relaxation protocol, particularly if you have an energetic dog. We also trained zen bowl, which helps with impulse control. I guess it’s how we’ve worked up to “leave it.” You start with covering a kibble on the floor with your hand, and when they stop sniffing and trying to get at it, mark and treat. Start removing your hand once that’s solid. Add in complexity like multiple kibbles, putting it in a bowl, getting more distance, new environments, etc. You can also see if they’ll magnet hand walk around the bowl, etc.
posted by sincerely yours at 11:09 PM on December 20, 2022
Ah, re-read the “leave it” part of your question, and it sounds like maybe you’re increasing the difficulty too rapidly? To increase duration/difficulty, when he goes for it when you uncover your hand, re-cover your hand until he backs away, uncover your hand (re-cover if needed) and mark and treat once he’s lasted like, 1 second. I’d probably increase difficulty only if he’s gotten it down the last 5 times. It’s a hard thing for dogs to do, so it’ll take some time.
I had another thought, which is that “leave it” is a difficult command for dogs because it isn’t a clear command of what you should do (like sit or spin or come). If he has any solid commands that move him through space, like touch, that can be helpful to try too.
Our clever girl also started picking up random things to get treats via drop or leave it, so we tabled those commands for a while.
Over time, she’s built a habit of ignoring some things because she’s been conditioned that “wrapper (or whatever visual cue) means treats ahead”. We have reintroduced “leave it” since then, and she’s been able to leave burgers and chicken wings recently. This from a doggo who, maybe a year ago, dug up banana peels under a little gravel and launched herself into a bush to find yet another chicken wing. But it’s not super realistic to train in a week or two (hence the other suggestions above).
Also you probably already know this, but putting it out there anyway— your local SPCA or shelter probably has some classes that can help provide a good foundation (they also get to see your dog in action and provide more tailored feedback and guidance).
posted by sincerely yours at 12:16 AM on December 21, 2022
I had another thought, which is that “leave it” is a difficult command for dogs because it isn’t a clear command of what you should do (like sit or spin or come). If he has any solid commands that move him through space, like touch, that can be helpful to try too.
Our clever girl also started picking up random things to get treats via drop or leave it, so we tabled those commands for a while.
Over time, she’s built a habit of ignoring some things because she’s been conditioned that “wrapper (or whatever visual cue) means treats ahead”. We have reintroduced “leave it” since then, and she’s been able to leave burgers and chicken wings recently. This from a doggo who, maybe a year ago, dug up banana peels under a little gravel and launched herself into a bush to find yet another chicken wing. But it’s not super realistic to train in a week or two (hence the other suggestions above).
Also you probably already know this, but putting it out there anyway— your local SPCA or shelter probably has some classes that can help provide a good foundation (they also get to see your dog in action and provide more tailored feedback and guidance).
posted by sincerely yours at 12:16 AM on December 21, 2022
I had another thought, which is that “leave it” is a difficult command for dogs because it isn’t a clear command of what you should do (like sit or spin or come). If he has any solid commands that move him through space, like touch, that can be helpful to try too.
This is also what I found with my 4 month old puppy, fwiw. I instead switched from leave it to training the command "let's go", which is the cue that we should keep on moving. It's also useful when he decides he wants to stay outside longer and I'm ready to go in, or just when I get tired of standing around while he sniffs the same spot for 10 minutes. But you should base this around your pup and what they are naturally inclined to do. My puppy is a SUPER clingy, velcro dog, so it was easy to teach him "let's go" because he knows that's the cue that means I'm leaving with or without him.
Another useful command that can be used as a (temporary) substitute for "leave it" is some sort of "Focus" command, which is the dog's cue to look at you. To train this, start in a quiet environment, and mark/click + treat anytime the dog looks at you. You can use the dog's name for this, but I think using a different word is likely more effective, just because the dog's name gets used so often.
Or you can use touch, as suggested above. Some cues are just easier for certain dogs to pick up than others, but I think leave it is a particularly difficult one to teach, just because as already mentioned, it's easier to teach a dog to do something rather than training them not to do something.
It's also useful to have a solid "drop it" command. If your dog likes toys, you can use Patricia Mcconnell's take/drop it game, where basically you hold out a toy in front of the dog that they like (ideally something like a rope toy where you can hold on to one end of it), tell the dog to "take it", then when the dog grabs on to it, play around for a little bit, then get them to drop it (you may need to wave another toy or treat in front of them at first).
posted by litera scripta manet at 6:00 AM on December 21, 2022
This is also what I found with my 4 month old puppy, fwiw. I instead switched from leave it to training the command "let's go", which is the cue that we should keep on moving. It's also useful when he decides he wants to stay outside longer and I'm ready to go in, or just when I get tired of standing around while he sniffs the same spot for 10 minutes. But you should base this around your pup and what they are naturally inclined to do. My puppy is a SUPER clingy, velcro dog, so it was easy to teach him "let's go" because he knows that's the cue that means I'm leaving with or without him.
Another useful command that can be used as a (temporary) substitute for "leave it" is some sort of "Focus" command, which is the dog's cue to look at you. To train this, start in a quiet environment, and mark/click + treat anytime the dog looks at you. You can use the dog's name for this, but I think using a different word is likely more effective, just because the dog's name gets used so often.
Or you can use touch, as suggested above. Some cues are just easier for certain dogs to pick up than others, but I think leave it is a particularly difficult one to teach, just because as already mentioned, it's easier to teach a dog to do something rather than training them not to do something.
It's also useful to have a solid "drop it" command. If your dog likes toys, you can use Patricia Mcconnell's take/drop it game, where basically you hold out a toy in front of the dog that they like (ideally something like a rope toy where you can hold on to one end of it), tell the dog to "take it", then when the dog grabs on to it, play around for a little bit, then get them to drop it (you may need to wave another toy or treat in front of them at first).
posted by litera scripta manet at 6:00 AM on December 21, 2022
I know a lot of dog trainers use "leave it" but I've come to my own conclusions that sometimes it's better to simplify things rather than having a ton of commands for different contexts. I now train my dogs on this sort of stuff simply using "yes" and "no"--I'm sure your dog already knows "no"! I don't think there's anything you gain from "leave it" in the context of the dog lunging for/eating things they shouldn't. I do train "drop it" for balls and stuff, but that's a slightly different context.
posted by drlith at 6:25 AM on December 21, 2022
posted by drlith at 6:25 AM on December 21, 2022
Slightly longer leash, keep him attached to you all the time. Express great dismay about elimination accidents. Take adorable Dice out at least every hour, with praise and treats for any elimination. I kept running out of spendy training treats and use small pieces of pork rind or cheese curls; they are strongly flavored and really get her attention, and always easily available. Small pieces of cheese are also excellent.
Train No, which can be used for eating junk and other harmful actions. I think Leave It and Drop It are useful, but a dangerous habit needs an immediate response. and maybe a shorter leash for now.
posted by theora55 at 7:10 AM on December 21, 2022
Train No, which can be used for eating junk and other harmful actions. I think Leave It and Drop It are useful, but a dangerous habit needs an immediate response. and maybe a shorter leash for now.
posted by theora55 at 7:10 AM on December 21, 2022
So.. peeing.. It could be any number of things.. nervous new environment and trying make it "his", attention, all sorts of things.
But, immediate reaction should be picking him up and putting him outside. Hopefully before he starts peeing. You see he start to squat, up and outside right away.
I'm 50-50 on the lead/leash, as it gets associated with it being "ok" to go, if you always walk him on the leash to go potty.
Leave it.. so, lots of good suggestions. I have used multiple toys for this. If they fetch, then you can throw the toy, and when they bring it back, immediately bring out the other toy. (I used tennis balls). They usually will drop the ball they're holding because -NEW TOY!. At which point, you say "Leave it" as it falls from their mouth. Then trying to get better at anticipating them dropping it and saying leave it.
Once they start dropping it bringing the toy back to you, you say leave it, but don't bring out another toy, and pick up what they brought.
If they are not fetching, then same principle... give them the toy, then bring out the other toy, and get their attention. If they drop the toy they are holding, say "leave it."
Rinse, repeat.
I actually did this, and taught to fetch at the same time. Having like 6 balls, I sat on one side of the room and threw the ball against the wall to come back to me. I kept throwing ball after ball until they got one, then stopped. If they came to me, I'd take out a new ball for them to drop what they were holding. If they didn't come back, I'd start throwing balls until they did.
posted by rich at 9:18 AM on December 21, 2022
But, immediate reaction should be picking him up and putting him outside. Hopefully before he starts peeing. You see he start to squat, up and outside right away.
I'm 50-50 on the lead/leash, as it gets associated with it being "ok" to go, if you always walk him on the leash to go potty.
Leave it.. so, lots of good suggestions. I have used multiple toys for this. If they fetch, then you can throw the toy, and when they bring it back, immediately bring out the other toy. (I used tennis balls). They usually will drop the ball they're holding because -NEW TOY!. At which point, you say "Leave it" as it falls from their mouth. Then trying to get better at anticipating them dropping it and saying leave it.
Once they start dropping it bringing the toy back to you, you say leave it, but don't bring out another toy, and pick up what they brought.
If they are not fetching, then same principle... give them the toy, then bring out the other toy, and get their attention. If they drop the toy they are holding, say "leave it."
Rinse, repeat.
I actually did this, and taught to fetch at the same time. Having like 6 balls, I sat on one side of the room and threw the ball against the wall to come back to me. I kept throwing ball after ball until they got one, then stopped. If they came to me, I'd take out a new ball for them to drop what they were holding. If they didn't come back, I'd start throwing balls until they did.
posted by rich at 9:18 AM on December 21, 2022
I feel your pain! I’m also trying to train a 1yr old rescue pup who’s still having accidents inside and seems to just not be able to learn certain things! There’s lots of great advice here about training, so I wanted to share some additional advice that has come in handy for me, called the 3-3-3 rule: it takes a rescue dog 3 days to decompress, 3 weeks to learn the basics in his new surroundings and feel more confident (which is when behavioral issues can start!) and 3 months before they are fully settled in and bonding with you!
I say this because I have sent SO MANY texts to my dog rescue friend in the past 3 months about how overwhelmed I am, how I don’t understand why he’s still doing this or that. I have been at my wits end (doggie daycare was a literal lifesaver). But lo and behold, here we are at 3 months, and it finally feels like something close to normal. 😄
You’ve only had him for a few weeks, and it’s totally normal that he still hasn’t learned “leave it” all the way…just keep at it and be patient. Keep working on training, try other methods, and he’ll get it eventually! Mine learned some things overnight, and some we’re still working on. You’re already doing a great job by trying to use positive reinforcement, training consistently, and looking for advice online! That’s way more than a lot of people are willing to do!
posted by a.steele at 7:10 PM on December 21, 2022
I say this because I have sent SO MANY texts to my dog rescue friend in the past 3 months about how overwhelmed I am, how I don’t understand why he’s still doing this or that. I have been at my wits end (doggie daycare was a literal lifesaver). But lo and behold, here we are at 3 months, and it finally feels like something close to normal. 😄
You’ve only had him for a few weeks, and it’s totally normal that he still hasn’t learned “leave it” all the way…just keep at it and be patient. Keep working on training, try other methods, and he’ll get it eventually! Mine learned some things overnight, and some we’re still working on. You’re already doing a great job by trying to use positive reinforcement, training consistently, and looking for advice online! That’s way more than a lot of people are willing to do!
posted by a.steele at 7:10 PM on December 21, 2022
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Secondly, here is a video on how to train "leave it." You have to be patient and willing to follow through, like, endlessly. He is just a wee bean with an apricot-sized brain whose whole world was upturned less than three weeks ago. It will take time. Street snacking is a favorite activity of many dogs.
posted by praemunire at 9:06 AM on December 20, 2022