Were you thrown into a new language as a child? Come and sit by me.
April 10, 2022 8:05 AM
In short, my family is planning on spending a year abroad where my kids (6 and 8) will be immersed in another language that they don't know yet. Is this going to be terrible?
I've written a few questions on this topic, so bear with me if you've already answered!
I am getting increasingly anxious about whether my kids spending a year in a foreign country immersed in a new language is a good idea, especially as a few friends/family have asked me why I would do this and underlined how hard this will be for the kids to be in a new place and a foreign language.
In my mind, I was giving them a cultural experience that will be fun for all of us and yes it will be hard, but worth it. But now I'm really not so sure. They are now really happy, settled kids and I'm wondering if this will be something positive for them. Am I being selfish? We certainly don't HAVE to go.
The school we are registering them in is bilingual, though when we took a family trip to see it, it was more like 25% English, 75% new language.
If you were thrown into a new language as a child, I'd love to hear how it was for you and whether you would think this would be worth it for only a short time (1-1.5 years.) Would this be traumatic at these ages?
Thanks!
(Btw I have no illusions that they will come back fluent and keep it, though I would hope that future language learning might be easier and we would try to keep it up at least a little. We are learning too, but won't be in a position that we all speak it at home.)
I've written a few questions on this topic, so bear with me if you've already answered!
I am getting increasingly anxious about whether my kids spending a year in a foreign country immersed in a new language is a good idea, especially as a few friends/family have asked me why I would do this and underlined how hard this will be for the kids to be in a new place and a foreign language.
In my mind, I was giving them a cultural experience that will be fun for all of us and yes it will be hard, but worth it. But now I'm really not so sure. They are now really happy, settled kids and I'm wondering if this will be something positive for them. Am I being selfish? We certainly don't HAVE to go.
The school we are registering them in is bilingual, though when we took a family trip to see it, it was more like 25% English, 75% new language.
If you were thrown into a new language as a child, I'd love to hear how it was for you and whether you would think this would be worth it for only a short time (1-1.5 years.) Would this be traumatic at these ages?
Thanks!
(Btw I have no illusions that they will come back fluent and keep it, though I would hope that future language learning might be easier and we would try to keep it up at least a little. We are learning too, but won't be in a position that we all speak it at home.)
In summary: They will be fine.
I've done it in a limited way (summers), but I've also up-close watched kids come into an English-speaking environment without any English.
There will be times it will be harder or easier and there may be tears now and then if, say, they misunderstood something important to them, but if you are connected and supportive and aware, it really will be okay for most kids. Sometimes there are negative experiences, particularly for first-generation immigrants, but that's often a complex situation and not just related to language comprehension.
One thing to be aware of is that they will be exhausted after school at a certain point - maybe not the first couple of weeks but as they get to the point that the sounds are starting to make sense to them but they aren't quite hitting comprehension, it is tiring. Building in recovery time is important.
posted by warriorqueen at 8:19 AM on April 10, 2022
I've done it in a limited way (summers), but I've also up-close watched kids come into an English-speaking environment without any English.
There will be times it will be harder or easier and there may be tears now and then if, say, they misunderstood something important to them, but if you are connected and supportive and aware, it really will be okay for most kids. Sometimes there are negative experiences, particularly for first-generation immigrants, but that's often a complex situation and not just related to language comprehension.
One thing to be aware of is that they will be exhausted after school at a certain point - maybe not the first couple of weeks but as they get to the point that the sounds are starting to make sense to them but they aren't quite hitting comprehension, it is tiring. Building in recovery time is important.
posted by warriorqueen at 8:19 AM on April 10, 2022
This happened to both me and my sibling at similar ages. I took to it better than my sibling, although I haven't retained my L2 expressiveness (German) very well, I can still read the newspaper and watch TV/movies without too much trouble. I didn't find it too traumatizing although I would say preparing beforehand so that they can communicate basic concepts (greetings, I need to use the washroom, etc) will be helpful.
I think you are right this will be a helpful experience for them even if they don't retain this specific language in the future. Learning another language as a child has helped me study other languages as an adult, and for me at least having the experience, as a native anglophone, of being the person who fumbled when trying to communicate and got made fun of for my defective pronunciation gave me a lot of empathy for people thrown into an English-only environment. I've seen many monolingual English speakers be very unkind towards people who don't achieve C2 level skills without understanding at all the amount of work that takes.
posted by threementholsandafuneral at 8:33 AM on April 10, 2022
I think you are right this will be a helpful experience for them even if they don't retain this specific language in the future. Learning another language as a child has helped me study other languages as an adult, and for me at least having the experience, as a native anglophone, of being the person who fumbled when trying to communicate and got made fun of for my defective pronunciation gave me a lot of empathy for people thrown into an English-only environment. I've seen many monolingual English speakers be very unkind towards people who don't achieve C2 level skills without understanding at all the amount of work that takes.
posted by threementholsandafuneral at 8:33 AM on April 10, 2022
I took some teaching English as a second language courses. Typically, if one learns a foreign language before the age of 9, they speak it without an accent, and that plus is pretty cool! Anecdotally, I have quite a few acquaintances who moved to the U.S. as grade school aged children (mostly from Mexico, but one close friend was a refugee from Vietnam) and they certainly didn't seem traumatized by having to quickly learn a new language via immersion (I know, because I asked them what it was like). The cultural experience your children will have will be invaluable. It will open their minds. The more people experience a variety of cultures, the better this world will become. I have a degree in foreign language and literature, and I've traveled extensively in Mexico, and those travels and the related cultural experiences have been one of the highlights of my life. Your kids are so fortunate to get to experience this!
posted by SageTrail at 8:40 AM on April 10, 2022
posted by SageTrail at 8:40 AM on April 10, 2022
Hi, I moved a lot as a child (within one big country) and also I just moved to my husband’s home country with my 3 year old. Younger than your kids, but it’s been wonderful for him overall. I’d say 2-3 months to fluency for him, which I’m very envious of but he is teaching me too. I remember moving at ages 6 and 8, and I think this is a really good time to do this with kids. They may feel a little lost at first while they’re finding their feet, so help them to write/call old friends and build new friendships in your new place. Especially if you might move back, maintaining some relationships will be valuable for them. It will also be fun to find new games, books and tv/movies they enjoy in the new language. If they find a series they enjoy that will give them something to talk about with potential friends.
posted by Concordia at 8:44 AM on April 10, 2022
posted by Concordia at 8:44 AM on April 10, 2022
We moved from NYC to Paris when I was 4, I have no recollection of learning French, I think I picked it up by osmosis by playing with kids in the park. If you can go a few weeks before school starts and let your kids play in local parks it could help them get used to the new culture and maybe learn a bit of the language. Informal learning may be key.
Do you speak new language? If you don't you'll need to learn it too, especially if you want them to retain it after you return to your home country.
posted by mareli at 8:55 AM on April 10, 2022
Do you speak new language? If you don't you'll need to learn it too, especially if you want them to retain it after you return to your home country.
posted by mareli at 8:55 AM on April 10, 2022
My kids experienced this at a slightly older age, and it generally worked well. They didn't even go to bilingual schools - they were just thrown into schools with the new language. I would say it was a little tougher for my son because he wasn't as brave about just speaking the new language as my daughter was. Aside from that, it was really a great experience for them. They both learned the language much better than I did (I was teaching classes in English) and helped me out in stores and at train stations. My daughter is trying to figure out how to give her children the same experience.
In short, it's going to be fine.
posted by FencingGal at 9:05 AM on April 10, 2022
In short, it's going to be fine.
posted by FencingGal at 9:05 AM on April 10, 2022
They will be fine. We lived in France when I was young. We were living on a U.S. Air Force base, so my parents as adults were doing more interacting with French people day to day than I was (and actively studying French), so I only picked up a few words here and there. Until, my parents placed me in a NATO school for first grade, which was taught entirely in French. There were no concessions by the teacher at all to the fact I knew little. I still remember the first day as being kind of intimidating, and how I had to ask the other kids to help me understand what was going on for a bit. Within a couple of months though I was fairly fluent, and by the end of the school year, my parents would occasionally ask me to translate for them during interactions with French people, since I was more fluent and my accent was better. I loved the whole experience. My one regret is not being able to keep up the language when we moved back to the U.S., because it was not being taught at the elementary school level at that point where we were living.
posted by gudrun at 9:11 AM on April 10, 2022
posted by gudrun at 9:11 AM on April 10, 2022
I went to school in my L2 for a year when I was 6 and then my family moved back to the states. I don't remember that year being at all traumatic and when I started taking language classes in my L2 again in high school I was shocked by how much I remembered and how much easier it was for me than my classmates. There may be challenges but you are also giving your kids an amazing gift. Both can be true. Good luck!
posted by jeszac at 9:22 AM on April 10, 2022
posted by jeszac at 9:22 AM on April 10, 2022
Nthing that the kids will be fine. I was thrown into English when I entered daycare; apparently I had the usual tears-at-dropoff for like a week (not related to language -- I had serious stranger anxiety as a toddler) but then I met my bestest friend and we were inseparable for the next three years. This was in an era where bilingualism was strongly discouraged for kids, so unfortunately I have all but lost my first language. It sounds like the people you're talking to are coming from a Reagan-era "bilingual=bad" mentality; the research actually suggests the opposite.
There might be some cultural challenges at that age, maybe moreso for the older one who has a bit of a sense of what school "should" be like (although with the pandemic, who knows). But language isn't really one of them. Plus, you'll probably all learn some slangy terms that won't make it into the textbooks!
posted by basalganglia at 9:23 AM on April 10, 2022
There might be some cultural challenges at that age, maybe moreso for the older one who has a bit of a sense of what school "should" be like (although with the pandemic, who knows). But language isn't really one of them. Plus, you'll probably all learn some slangy terms that won't make it into the textbooks!
posted by basalganglia at 9:23 AM on April 10, 2022
Family members and friends who have never done something like this are coming to come up with all sorts of reasons not to, but that doesn’t mean they’re right.
People who have done this can say 1,000 times that kids pick up language fast, and this is a great age for this, and the adventure is wonderful, and so on.
This is ultimately about not letting doubts creep in and having boundaries with unsupportive people.
And you know what would regret most of all? Not doing this.
posted by bluedaisy at 10:40 AM on April 10, 2022
People who have done this can say 1,000 times that kids pick up language fast, and this is a great age for this, and the adventure is wonderful, and so on.
This is ultimately about not letting doubts creep in and having boundaries with unsupportive people.
And you know what would regret most of all? Not doing this.
posted by bluedaisy at 10:40 AM on April 10, 2022
N'thing you will be fine.
I have five siblings, and five of us went through this at some point in our lives. While some of us struggled more than others, everyone is grateful looking back. And even the one who had all their education in our country of origin has had an international career and speaks four languages with no accent -- it was normal in our family to switch languages if we had guests who didn't speak our native language, so they picked it up.
posted by mumimor at 11:37 AM on April 10, 2022
I have five siblings, and five of us went through this at some point in our lives. While some of us struggled more than others, everyone is grateful looking back. And even the one who had all their education in our country of origin has had an international career and speaks four languages with no accent -- it was normal in our family to switch languages if we had guests who didn't speak our native language, so they picked it up.
posted by mumimor at 11:37 AM on April 10, 2022
I emigrated to an English-speaking country aged seven, and I picked up English very quickly with minimal stress. At an earlier age I stayed in Germany for a couple of months, and while I didn't really ever learn to speak German properly, I think that early exposure helped me much later when I took it as a subject in school.
In general I remember my childhood language acquisition as fun rather than traumatic, and I have certainly never regretted learning more languages!
Throughout my life I have, however, come across multiple examples of adults depriving children of language learning opportunities out of a misplaced concern that they would be too difficult or confusing. I'm still salty that my teachers recommended that I learn Afrikaans at the second language rather than the first language level. And I know way too many immigrant kids whose parents only spoke to them in (broken!) English at home, who now can't speak their family's first language fluently.
So this is yet another vote for giving kids every opportunity to learn language. Not every kid is the same, and some kids may be more impatient or frustrated than others, but I would expect by default that they will pick up enough of the language to make themselves understood pretty quickly.
posted by confluency at 1:04 PM on April 10, 2022
In general I remember my childhood language acquisition as fun rather than traumatic, and I have certainly never regretted learning more languages!
Throughout my life I have, however, come across multiple examples of adults depriving children of language learning opportunities out of a misplaced concern that they would be too difficult or confusing. I'm still salty that my teachers recommended that I learn Afrikaans at the second language rather than the first language level. And I know way too many immigrant kids whose parents only spoke to them in (broken!) English at home, who now can't speak their family's first language fluently.
So this is yet another vote for giving kids every opportunity to learn language. Not every kid is the same, and some kids may be more impatient or frustrated than others, but I would expect by default that they will pick up enough of the language to make themselves understood pretty quickly.
posted by confluency at 1:04 PM on April 10, 2022
It might be fine. It might be terrible. An acquaintance did this with kids of that age and left after 6 months because the new language would not stick and the kids were miserable. This happens too. Do what you can to prepare them.
posted by melamakarona at 1:11 PM on April 10, 2022
posted by melamakarona at 1:11 PM on April 10, 2022
A lot of people have covered the language and how wonderful it is to know a language aspect but what about your kiddos social skills? We just are in about month 7 of starting our kids in the local language school after taking them out of an international school and they’ve found it very tough not being able to easily make friends as well since the other kids don’t speak English and the other kids weren’t super keen to socialize outside of class. It’s been hard for my kid who is nearly 7. I feel sad that I didn’t give him a normal year after all the crap he went through the year before after missing so much socializing with lockdown and stuff with corona. So there’s that to think about.
posted by pairofshades at 1:40 PM on April 10, 2022
posted by pairofshades at 1:40 PM on April 10, 2022
We moved from Chile to New York when I was three (it was 1973, guess why we moved).
I spent a year at home with my mom watching Sesame Street 6 times a day (they repeated the episodes on different channels). I went to kindergarten the year after and came back speaking English after 1 week.
My parents spoke to us in Spanish. My brother and I answered them in English. I never felt like a foreigner in the US.
We moved to Guatemala when I was 8. It was hell. My dad was working for an international NGO and they put us in a fancy private school, full of rich assholes. They made us march like soldiers. They assigned seats based on your grades. I barely spoke or understood Spanish so I had shitty grades, so I was made to sit in the back, so I understood even less of the classes, so I had shittier grades.
We moved back to Chile when I was 9. It was pretty bad, too, but not as bad as Guatemala. I went to a self-styled "English" school, where the librarian was the only staff member who spoke English proficiently.
I spoke Spanish with an accent for the first few years (people thought I might be from Spain because I pronounced the 's' sound at the end of words), and was your classical nerd/geek, in part because I am and in part because I didn't really get Chilean social cues.
I've lived in Chile for most of my 51 years, but still feel a bit foreign. I still speak English and my Spanish is fine now.
I raised my son bilingual. He goes to a sort-of-immersion bilingual school here in Chile. His English is better than his Spanish. He speaks English with all his close friends.
posted by signal at 3:41 PM on April 10, 2022
I spent a year at home with my mom watching Sesame Street 6 times a day (they repeated the episodes on different channels). I went to kindergarten the year after and came back speaking English after 1 week.
My parents spoke to us in Spanish. My brother and I answered them in English. I never felt like a foreigner in the US.
We moved to Guatemala when I was 8. It was hell. My dad was working for an international NGO and they put us in a fancy private school, full of rich assholes. They made us march like soldiers. They assigned seats based on your grades. I barely spoke or understood Spanish so I had shitty grades, so I was made to sit in the back, so I understood even less of the classes, so I had shittier grades.
We moved back to Chile when I was 9. It was pretty bad, too, but not as bad as Guatemala. I went to a self-styled "English" school, where the librarian was the only staff member who spoke English proficiently.
I spoke Spanish with an accent for the first few years (people thought I might be from Spain because I pronounced the 's' sound at the end of words), and was your classical nerd/geek, in part because I am and in part because I didn't really get Chilean social cues.
I've lived in Chile for most of my 51 years, but still feel a bit foreign. I still speak English and my Spanish is fine now.
I raised my son bilingual. He goes to a sort-of-immersion bilingual school here in Chile. His English is better than his Spanish. He speaks English with all his close friends.
posted by signal at 3:41 PM on April 10, 2022
I was in a bilingual kindergarten and first grade. It was awesome, I wish it had continued as I got older as I'd for sure be bilingual now.
At the same time, my best friend who was in the same class moved with her family to China. There was no English spoken when they were in school, at all. That was pretty rough for her.
The fact that there is some English at school bodes well. It sounds harder than what I did, but easier than what my friend did, which sounds like a sweet spot.
posted by pazazygeek at 4:17 PM on April 10, 2022
At the same time, my best friend who was in the same class moved with her family to China. There was no English spoken when they were in school, at all. That was pretty rough for her.
The fact that there is some English at school bodes well. It sounds harder than what I did, but easier than what my friend did, which sounds like a sweet spot.
posted by pazazygeek at 4:17 PM on April 10, 2022
We moved to a different country when I was almost 9 and I went to a school that was in the new language but had lots of immigrant kids speaking my first language. I was a super shy kid and it definitely made my anxiety much worse, he first year I used to cry if kids simply said hi to me, even in my first language. By the second year I was fluent in the second language.
No long term negative effects though! I made friends and was a happy kid overall. I don't remember disliking school or anything during that time, it helped to have a happy loving home to come home to and family to do fun stuff with after school.
posted by never.was.and.never.will.be. at 6:56 PM on April 10, 2022
No long term negative effects though! I made friends and was a happy kid overall. I don't remember disliking school or anything during that time, it helped to have a happy loving home to come home to and family to do fun stuff with after school.
posted by never.was.and.never.will.be. at 6:56 PM on April 10, 2022
A friend has done this with two kids around the ages of yours, maybe a year younger. The kids were fine!
Thinking back, they went to Germany for a year...maybe also to France for a year, with the same "throw 'em into the deep end" methodology? Anyway, kids are way more plastic than are we old things. :7)
posted by wenestvedt at 7:51 AM on April 11, 2022
Thinking back, they went to Germany for a year...maybe also to France for a year, with the same "throw 'em into the deep end" methodology? Anyway, kids are way more plastic than are we old things. :7)
posted by wenestvedt at 7:51 AM on April 11, 2022
My family moved to Germany when I was 4, and I went to German Kindergarten for 2 years, then did 1st and 2nd grade there as well. There was no English school in our small Bavarian town, so this was all 100% German language. Obviously I don't remember personally a lot of the details, but I'll share two things my parents have said of that time.
First, at home, we all spoke English, to continue our proficiency in that language, knowing that we would not be living permanently in Germany. Especially since you're contemplating just one year, I think this would be important, as would be continuing to build English reading skills.
Second, my parents like to tell the story of my first month or so at Kindergarten. After those weeks, the teachers talked to my parents, expressing concern that I wasn't talking to anyone. They asked me about it, and I told them that I was afraid if I spoke German that I would forget how to speak English. They assured me that this was not the case, and the next day I went to Kindergarten and spoke in full fluent sentences.
I regret not keeping up better with my German language skills, but it's definitely knowledge that is ingrained at a deeper level having learned it at that age, and when I go back I usually find most things coming back to me after a few days. It was a defining time in my life and definitely an experience I treasure that had a real impact on who I am in a lot of ways, so I say go for it!
posted by dellsolace at 11:39 AM on April 11, 2022
First, at home, we all spoke English, to continue our proficiency in that language, knowing that we would not be living permanently in Germany. Especially since you're contemplating just one year, I think this would be important, as would be continuing to build English reading skills.
Second, my parents like to tell the story of my first month or so at Kindergarten. After those weeks, the teachers talked to my parents, expressing concern that I wasn't talking to anyone. They asked me about it, and I told them that I was afraid if I spoke German that I would forget how to speak English. They assured me that this was not the case, and the next day I went to Kindergarten and spoke in full fluent sentences.
I regret not keeping up better with my German language skills, but it's definitely knowledge that is ingrained at a deeper level having learned it at that age, and when I go back I usually find most things coming back to me after a few days. It was a defining time in my life and definitely an experience I treasure that had a real impact on who I am in a lot of ways, so I say go for it!
posted by dellsolace at 11:39 AM on April 11, 2022
One other thing I’m going to mention is that this may or may not permanently change your children. You might want to look up ‘third culture kids’. There are pros and cons.
posted by bq at 12:17 PM on April 11, 2022
posted by bq at 12:17 PM on April 11, 2022
It probably won't be terrible and I don't think it was traumatic, but your thinking that it will be "a cultural experience that will be fun for all of us" is wishful thinking, specifically the fun part, although that doesn't stop it from possibly/probably being true.
The first day we moved to our new country I cried in the hotel room. The second day I also cried. A few months later when school started I... well I didn't cry everyday or even many days, but one day some weeks later (possibly because of the exhaustion a commenter pointed out above) I bursted into tears at the dinner table for basically no reason/trigger. Why did we move to this strange new place where I was a fish out of water and people around me spoke in Charlie Brown trombone noises and I sounded like an uncouth troglodyte?
Language-wise it all worked out fine, of course, like everyone else said. My school helpfully assigned me a teacher's aide to go over English 1-on-1 everyday, such that I was fully caught up in reading and spelling by year's end. I even picked up the local accent rapidly, although the long tail of non-native quirks in writing and speaking took a few more years to iron out. But whether the process was fun is YMMV.
(Another thing is, will there be issues upon moving back? I don't think it will be an issue if your L1 is English and you're moving back in a year, but for my L1's specific linguistic/educational context (diglossia/non-syllabic script/lack of standardized phonetic transcription) it would have been challenging to miss a year of language development.)
posted by The arrows are too fast at 2:19 PM on April 12, 2022
The first day we moved to our new country I cried in the hotel room. The second day I also cried. A few months later when school started I... well I didn't cry everyday or even many days, but one day some weeks later (possibly because of the exhaustion a commenter pointed out above) I bursted into tears at the dinner table for basically no reason/trigger. Why did we move to this strange new place where I was a fish out of water and people around me spoke in Charlie Brown trombone noises and I sounded like an uncouth troglodyte?
Language-wise it all worked out fine, of course, like everyone else said. My school helpfully assigned me a teacher's aide to go over English 1-on-1 everyday, such that I was fully caught up in reading and spelling by year's end. I even picked up the local accent rapidly, although the long tail of non-native quirks in writing and speaking took a few more years to iron out. But whether the process was fun is YMMV.
(Another thing is, will there be issues upon moving back? I don't think it will be an issue if your L1 is English and you're moving back in a year, but for my L1's specific linguistic/educational context (diglossia/non-syllabic script/lack of standardized phonetic transcription) it would have been challenging to miss a year of language development.)
posted by The arrows are too fast at 2:19 PM on April 12, 2022
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posted by bq at 8:15 AM on April 10, 2022