Can you help my gas range repair woes
April 6, 2022 12:01 PM
My gas stove/oven is malfunctioning and I am struggling to get the issue diagnosed/resolved. Seeking all advice. Long explanation inside.
We moved into a new home in December 2021 which has a freestanding gas range (Avanti GR2416CSS). Periodically since then (about 5 out of the 10 times we have used the oven, and 2 out of the 20 times we have used the stove – we have mostly stopped using both because we are scared to do so) we have an issue where the oven/stove lights correctly and begins to heat, but then a few minutes in the flame extinguishes. In those events, we can still hear gas hissing and can smell gas. We of course immediately turn off the knob and vent the room.
Fortunately (maybe…), we have a home warranty that should theoretically cover this. They’ve been happy to send people out, but it hasn’t really gotten me very far. The first repair people said something about the gas pressure/regulator, and advised that I should hold down the ignition for 10ish extra seconds to prime it (I tried, don't think it helped) but then said they didn’t work on our model. The second repair person said he ran the oven for 15 minutes and didn’t see any issues (this is not true; while I wasn’t here for his visit, I have the security system records to prove he was in the house for less than 5 minutes) and that he didn’t work on our model. Third repair person cancelled day-of because they don’t work on this model.
The fourth repairperson did stay for a while and in some ways was the most helpful but he said a few different things (note that there was a bit of a language barrier, so there’s a high chance of some miscommunication here): 1. He didn’t think our description of events made any sense, 2. He had a theory that perhaps the thermometer in the oven was having issues and turning off the flame because it’d thought the oven came to temperature, 3. He never saw this issue come up (I’m pretty sure this isn’t true, I was with him the whole visit and while I could clearly see that the issue did occur the first time he turned on the oven, but he insisted that the flame had never been on during that time. I mean, the oven was at 113 degrees, so that doesn’t seem accurate. He got kind of agitated when I kept bringing that up – I think our language barrier combined with our different memory of that particular moment made it particularly difficult.) and 4. He couldn’t fix anything because he couldn’t pinpoint the issue. He wasn’t able to make a lot of concrete suggestions for next steps, other than saying that next time it happened I could not turn off the knob and instead call the gas company so that they can pinpoint the source of the gas (this seems like a bad idea – I don’t think I will be doing this).
Since the last repair person did work on this model and could not find an issue, I believe my home warranty considers this “case closed” at this point; they will let me arrange another serviceperson for a second copay ($75) and then will refund the copay if the new person finds an issue but I’m convinced that I’m just going to get more of the same runaround if I don't change my strategy.
So - I have a bunch of different questions:
1. How can I get better data to push back on the idea that this isn’t happening? It’s hard to get a good picture or video of “this flame was on and now it isn’t” or “I smell gas”. (Note: I do use a reliable thermometer (this one) to get information on when the heat is climbing and when it stops climbing in the oven so that I don’t keep having to open the oven to check on the flame.)
2. Any theories on what could be happening here?
3. Any advice on how to work better with repairpeople and/or the home warranty company to actually get to some sort of productive resolution?
4. If this is a problem with the gas supply rather than the appliance - which was something one person suggested - how would I pinpoint that? What sort of professional would I need?
We moved into a new home in December 2021 which has a freestanding gas range (Avanti GR2416CSS). Periodically since then (about 5 out of the 10 times we have used the oven, and 2 out of the 20 times we have used the stove – we have mostly stopped using both because we are scared to do so) we have an issue where the oven/stove lights correctly and begins to heat, but then a few minutes in the flame extinguishes. In those events, we can still hear gas hissing and can smell gas. We of course immediately turn off the knob and vent the room.
Fortunately (maybe…), we have a home warranty that should theoretically cover this. They’ve been happy to send people out, but it hasn’t really gotten me very far. The first repair people said something about the gas pressure/regulator, and advised that I should hold down the ignition for 10ish extra seconds to prime it (I tried, don't think it helped) but then said they didn’t work on our model. The second repair person said he ran the oven for 15 minutes and didn’t see any issues (this is not true; while I wasn’t here for his visit, I have the security system records to prove he was in the house for less than 5 minutes) and that he didn’t work on our model. Third repair person cancelled day-of because they don’t work on this model.
The fourth repairperson did stay for a while and in some ways was the most helpful but he said a few different things (note that there was a bit of a language barrier, so there’s a high chance of some miscommunication here): 1. He didn’t think our description of events made any sense, 2. He had a theory that perhaps the thermometer in the oven was having issues and turning off the flame because it’d thought the oven came to temperature, 3. He never saw this issue come up (I’m pretty sure this isn’t true, I was with him the whole visit and while I could clearly see that the issue did occur the first time he turned on the oven, but he insisted that the flame had never been on during that time. I mean, the oven was at 113 degrees, so that doesn’t seem accurate. He got kind of agitated when I kept bringing that up – I think our language barrier combined with our different memory of that particular moment made it particularly difficult.) and 4. He couldn’t fix anything because he couldn’t pinpoint the issue. He wasn’t able to make a lot of concrete suggestions for next steps, other than saying that next time it happened I could not turn off the knob and instead call the gas company so that they can pinpoint the source of the gas (this seems like a bad idea – I don’t think I will be doing this).
Since the last repair person did work on this model and could not find an issue, I believe my home warranty considers this “case closed” at this point; they will let me arrange another serviceperson for a second copay ($75) and then will refund the copay if the new person finds an issue but I’m convinced that I’m just going to get more of the same runaround if I don't change my strategy.
So - I have a bunch of different questions:
1. How can I get better data to push back on the idea that this isn’t happening? It’s hard to get a good picture or video of “this flame was on and now it isn’t” or “I smell gas”. (Note: I do use a reliable thermometer (this one) to get information on when the heat is climbing and when it stops climbing in the oven so that I don’t keep having to open the oven to check on the flame.)
2. Any theories on what could be happening here?
3. Any advice on how to work better with repairpeople and/or the home warranty company to actually get to some sort of productive resolution?
4. If this is a problem with the gas supply rather than the appliance - which was something one person suggested - how would I pinpoint that? What sort of professional would I need?
Maybe your gas valve from the gas line, isn't open all the way.
posted by Oyéah at 1:36 PM on April 6, 2022
posted by Oyéah at 1:36 PM on April 6, 2022
Clarifications as requested:
The problem most often occurs with the oven, but has also happened with the cooktop (I'd estimate his has happened about 5 out of the 10 times we have used the oven, and 2 out of the 20 times we have used the stove). I understand that the fact that it's happened on both rules out some of the more obvious oven-based issues.
The flame is strong, blue, lights easily, and is otherwise normal (as long as it's on).
posted by mosst at 1:58 PM on April 6, 2022
The problem most often occurs with the oven, but has also happened with the cooktop (I'd estimate his has happened about 5 out of the 10 times we have used the oven, and 2 out of the 20 times we have used the stove). I understand that the fact that it's happened on both rules out some of the more obvious oven-based issues.
The flame is strong, blue, lights easily, and is otherwise normal (as long as it's on).
posted by mosst at 1:58 PM on April 6, 2022
The oven can be a completely different issue because there's a system that will turn the flame off and then reignite it based on temperature control. And igniters do wear out and fail (see also: gas dryers, water heaters, and furnaces).
But if your cooktop can't maintain a flame? There's some external condition that is causing this. Is there an exhaust fan drawing too much air over the cooktop? Are all burner caps on correctly? Are the supply nozzles clean? (This video gives an example)
If you ignite a burner with nothing on top, set it to medium flame, and just stand there and watch it will it eventually go out?
posted by JoeZydeco at 2:21 PM on April 6, 2022
But if your cooktop can't maintain a flame? There's some external condition that is causing this. Is there an exhaust fan drawing too much air over the cooktop? Are all burner caps on correctly? Are the supply nozzles clean? (This video gives an example)
If you ignite a burner with nothing on top, set it to medium flame, and just stand there and watch it will it eventually go out?
posted by JoeZydeco at 2:21 PM on April 6, 2022
When our oven stopped heating past 130 & filled the kitchen with gas, it turned out to be the igniter. It worked sometimes, but got worse & worse as time went on. We replaced the igniter & haven't had any problems.
One of the burners occasionally goes out shortly after turning it on, but it seems to be related to drafts & whether or not the vent fan is turned on. If it's going to go out, it does it almost immediately after turning it on, but is fine once a pan is on it.
posted by belladonna at 2:40 PM on April 6, 2022
One of the burners occasionally goes out shortly after turning it on, but it seems to be related to drafts & whether or not the vent fan is turned on. If it's going to go out, it does it almost immediately after turning it on, but is fine once a pan is on it.
posted by belladonna at 2:40 PM on April 6, 2022
I glanced at the manual, and they mention problems lighting some burners when they’re turned on 'hi' and recommend trying to light them on 'lo' instead, with a reference to pressure in the line from the supplier.
Which makes me think it could be a pressure regulation problem where too much pressure blows out the flame, and the high flow rate also defeats the igniter. It sounds like the stove itself has an internal regulator, but I didn’t see any reference to adjusting it, though a tech might be able to. You might try calling he manufacturer to ask about that.
posted by jamjam at 3:38 PM on April 6, 2022
Which makes me think it could be a pressure regulation problem where too much pressure blows out the flame, and the high flow rate also defeats the igniter. It sounds like the stove itself has an internal regulator, but I didn’t see any reference to adjusting it, though a tech might be able to. You might try calling he manufacturer to ask about that.
posted by jamjam at 3:38 PM on April 6, 2022
Do you have other gas appliances? What happens if you run all of them at the same time while lighting a burner?
posted by JoeZydeco at 6:42 PM on April 6, 2022
posted by JoeZydeco at 6:42 PM on April 6, 2022
Thanks all so much for the input - I was out of town and couldn't look into this more, but in the past couple days I've managed to catch the issue on the stovetop on video not once but twice and it's given me some new data.
Video #1 - the first time - the burner stayed on for about a minute (skip forward to 1:26 for the good part) before extinguishing. I turned off the knob almost immediately after so I can't tell for sure whether this was something I caused but it seemed like the gas stopped for a second and then restarted.
Video #2 - I turned on the burner and it stayed on for only a few seconds before extinguishing. I intentionally did not touch the knob for a few seconds after that and you can hear the gas definitely stopped and restarted.
So, if anyone is monitoring this in recent activity (and thank you so much if you are) - would that change your advice at all about A. What might be causing this, B. Whether this is may be an issue that isn't strictly with the appliance, or C. What might help in getting appliance repair people to actually help with this?
(Other data points that may or may not be helpful: these videos were taken two days apart, between those times I ran the stove on video six other times with no apparent issues. Both videos were captured when I hadn't used the stove for a least 12 hours prior, so perhaps that's something. Gas water heater and dryer both work normally, although the former is very old and does have some scorch marks - which have been inspected by a plumber who told us it was associated with its age and safe to use, but perhaps that could be related if there's a gas flow issue? I did try cranking every gas appliance and every burner and the oven simultaneously for a few minutes to see if that would do anything unusual and it didn't.)
posted by mosst at 5:40 PM on April 15, 2022
Video #1 - the first time - the burner stayed on for about a minute (skip forward to 1:26 for the good part) before extinguishing. I turned off the knob almost immediately after so I can't tell for sure whether this was something I caused but it seemed like the gas stopped for a second and then restarted.
Video #2 - I turned on the burner and it stayed on for only a few seconds before extinguishing. I intentionally did not touch the knob for a few seconds after that and you can hear the gas definitely stopped and restarted.
So, if anyone is monitoring this in recent activity (and thank you so much if you are) - would that change your advice at all about A. What might be causing this, B. Whether this is may be an issue that isn't strictly with the appliance, or C. What might help in getting appliance repair people to actually help with this?
(Other data points that may or may not be helpful: these videos were taken two days apart, between those times I ran the stove on video six other times with no apparent issues. Both videos were captured when I hadn't used the stove for a least 12 hours prior, so perhaps that's something. Gas water heater and dryer both work normally, although the former is very old and does have some scorch marks - which have been inspected by a plumber who told us it was associated with its age and safe to use, but perhaps that could be related if there's a gas flow issue? I did try cranking every gas appliance and every burner and the oven simultaneously for a few minutes to see if that would do anything unusual and it didn't.)
posted by mosst at 5:40 PM on April 15, 2022
I watched the first one at .25 speed, and just before it went out altogether the flames shrank down to about half size for a brief moment, so I think you must be right that the flow of gas was interrupted. If the flow of air had been interrupted, the flames would have gotten long and yellow instead.
If the stove has a pressure regulator, it might be malfunctioning. Or it could be the fault of the gas company.
posted by jamjam at 4:49 AM on April 16, 2022
If the stove has a pressure regulator, it might be malfunctioning. Or it could be the fault of the gas company.
posted by jamjam at 4:49 AM on April 16, 2022
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I'm inclined to start with #4 and make sure your gas supply is strong and reliable. If you turn on a cooktop burner - NOT the oven - and let it run for a while does it run continuously or does it sputter and die out? Is the flame a good blue color or does it run yellow/orange?
Most natural gas utilities will be happy to come out (typically for free) and check your system to avoid bigger problems. They can also check for leaks. Perhaps ambient air is getting pulled in.
posted by JoeZydeco at 1:15 PM on April 6, 2022