Help me conquer my mental blocks and tell my housemate goodbye
March 29, 2022 7:09 PM Subscribe
I want to ask my housemate, who is heavily financially dependent on me, to leave my home. She agreed to a time limit here that is approaching, and it is clearly the right decision for my mental health and finances. So why am I getting myself in such a bad shame spiral about this situation, and how do I psych myself up to do the hard thing? More about how I got here below the fold.
I met “Jackie” through a local queer Facebook group, and we were casual acquaintances when we first moved into a rented house in March 2020. She is younger than me by several years, and before Covid she was stringing together a bunch of part-time jobs. When most of those income streams dried up with the pandemic she began collecting unemployment. I had a steady job outside the home that did not stop for Covid.
As the pandemic dragged on, Jackie began helping me out with some tasks to supplement her unemployment. She drove me to work during the week for a fixed weekly rate. (I do not have a car). She picked up some cleaning around the house that I would have otherwise done. Eventually, this turned into an agreement where, in exchange for heavily subsidizing her rent, she did my share of the household chores. Since I worked an odd schedule and had a job I hated and consumed all my mental energy, this worked out pretty well. Plus, I also had a period in my early 20s where I was depressed, un and under employed, and got by largely thanks to the empathy of my roommate at the time, who subsidized me heavily. Helping Jackie in this way felt like paying it forward.
In late 2021, having switched to a better paying and less stressful job, I bought a house. By this time Jackie’s unemployment had long since dried up, and her mental health took a pretty steep nosedive, which made her more financially dependent on me. She and I had initially talked about having her move in with me as a tenant, since we’re more or less compatible on roommate things. However, the more I thought about it, the more I wanted to have time to myself to adapt the house to my specifications and have guests on my own terms. Just before Christmas, I told her “look, nothing personal but I need some alone time and I want to move by myself.”
In January 2022, about a month ahead of the move, Jackie first asked if I would be able to keep her cats for a time, as she anticipated living in her car after moving out of our old home. I was, and still would be, absolutely willing to do that. A week after that ask, she asked if she could stay with me for a strict period of two months “just to get back on my feet,” with me paying set rates for certain household chores. Like a fucking fool, I said yes. Please don’t judge me for forgetting my boundaries.
Those two months would end at the end of April. Two weeks ago, I sat down with Jackie to talk about life after April. Using a script from my therapist, I said “look, I absolutely need some alone time to work on the house and myself, but I don’t want to screw you over. What were you thinking, how can we work together on next steps.”
She asked if it would be okay if she alternated three weeks with me and one week elsewhere. I was so flabbergasted by how not okay this plan is that I couldn’t say anything in the moment and said I’d think on it.
So I hear you all saying, this is a no brainer, you want to be alone so much, kick her to the curb. But my brain keeps setting up roadblocks.
-I feel vaguely guilty about wanting to be alone in my rather large house. Why does one little me need four bedrooms?
-I am very well off by the standards of my social milieu (though not by metafilter standards, probably), and putting all my money mostly toward me feels so selfish. (Though I never intended to be effectively a sugar mama either, and home ownership is expensive….) I feel super-weird about the power inherent in being a homeowner/landlord of sorts move generally.
-I’ve worked in homeless services before, and still volunteer regularly with people experiencing homelessness. I know, better than many folks in my income bracket, just how bleak the “help” offered to unhoused people is, and it is many times worse if you are trans, as Jackie is.
-I’m mad at myself for not setting a good boundary the first time. I’m so ashamed that I caved to her, and avoiding the confrontation now is a sort of self-punishment for not being firm enough before.
How do I quit self-sabotaging here and do what I need to do to be happy in my space? What are some good scripts for telling Jackie to leave? How do I not diminish my desires and also not be an asshole?
I met “Jackie” through a local queer Facebook group, and we were casual acquaintances when we first moved into a rented house in March 2020. She is younger than me by several years, and before Covid she was stringing together a bunch of part-time jobs. When most of those income streams dried up with the pandemic she began collecting unemployment. I had a steady job outside the home that did not stop for Covid.
As the pandemic dragged on, Jackie began helping me out with some tasks to supplement her unemployment. She drove me to work during the week for a fixed weekly rate. (I do not have a car). She picked up some cleaning around the house that I would have otherwise done. Eventually, this turned into an agreement where, in exchange for heavily subsidizing her rent, she did my share of the household chores. Since I worked an odd schedule and had a job I hated and consumed all my mental energy, this worked out pretty well. Plus, I also had a period in my early 20s where I was depressed, un and under employed, and got by largely thanks to the empathy of my roommate at the time, who subsidized me heavily. Helping Jackie in this way felt like paying it forward.
In late 2021, having switched to a better paying and less stressful job, I bought a house. By this time Jackie’s unemployment had long since dried up, and her mental health took a pretty steep nosedive, which made her more financially dependent on me. She and I had initially talked about having her move in with me as a tenant, since we’re more or less compatible on roommate things. However, the more I thought about it, the more I wanted to have time to myself to adapt the house to my specifications and have guests on my own terms. Just before Christmas, I told her “look, nothing personal but I need some alone time and I want to move by myself.”
In January 2022, about a month ahead of the move, Jackie first asked if I would be able to keep her cats for a time, as she anticipated living in her car after moving out of our old home. I was, and still would be, absolutely willing to do that. A week after that ask, she asked if she could stay with me for a strict period of two months “just to get back on my feet,” with me paying set rates for certain household chores. Like a fucking fool, I said yes. Please don’t judge me for forgetting my boundaries.
Those two months would end at the end of April. Two weeks ago, I sat down with Jackie to talk about life after April. Using a script from my therapist, I said “look, I absolutely need some alone time to work on the house and myself, but I don’t want to screw you over. What were you thinking, how can we work together on next steps.”
She asked if it would be okay if she alternated three weeks with me and one week elsewhere. I was so flabbergasted by how not okay this plan is that I couldn’t say anything in the moment and said I’d think on it.
So I hear you all saying, this is a no brainer, you want to be alone so much, kick her to the curb. But my brain keeps setting up roadblocks.
-I feel vaguely guilty about wanting to be alone in my rather large house. Why does one little me need four bedrooms?
-I am very well off by the standards of my social milieu (though not by metafilter standards, probably), and putting all my money mostly toward me feels so selfish. (Though I never intended to be effectively a sugar mama either, and home ownership is expensive….) I feel super-weird about the power inherent in being a homeowner/landlord of sorts move generally.
-I’ve worked in homeless services before, and still volunteer regularly with people experiencing homelessness. I know, better than many folks in my income bracket, just how bleak the “help” offered to unhoused people is, and it is many times worse if you are trans, as Jackie is.
-I’m mad at myself for not setting a good boundary the first time. I’m so ashamed that I caved to her, and avoiding the confrontation now is a sort of self-punishment for not being firm enough before.
How do I quit self-sabotaging here and do what I need to do to be happy in my space? What are some good scripts for telling Jackie to leave? How do I not diminish my desires and also not be an asshole?
Jackie sounds to be relatively able brained and bodied. Consider that it is a form of kindness to create a situation where she is forced to rely on her own capabilities and develop independence. It's a skill set every adult should have and it would be doing her a disservice to continue to provide her this sheltered environment where she has been unable to grow.
posted by phunniemee at 8:16 PM on March 29, 2022 [4 favorites]
posted by phunniemee at 8:16 PM on March 29, 2022 [4 favorites]
It is heartening to see your compassion, your care, and your consciousness that it is so much harder for trans women to make their way in the world. I see you being a ray of light.
You can separate the two objectives—your need to not have a housemate, and her security and survival. You can very actively start working your networks, looking for friends and friends of friends with rentals, housesitting, anything. You can help smooth the way with money, offered in solidarity; it is an accepted practice for landlords to offer “key money,” or a payment to the tenant who agrees to vacate. It’s often done for problem tenants, but it’s also offered in cases of solidarity or thanks to tenants a landlord cares about. She can look too, and you can support her to work her networks. And as all this support happens you can still maintain that boundary. But by separating the boundary and the work of solidarity and support, you might help dispel the guilt. Good luck and thank you for your compassion.
posted by The Last Sockpuppet at 8:30 PM on March 29, 2022 [10 favorites]
You can separate the two objectives—your need to not have a housemate, and her security and survival. You can very actively start working your networks, looking for friends and friends of friends with rentals, housesitting, anything. You can help smooth the way with money, offered in solidarity; it is an accepted practice for landlords to offer “key money,” or a payment to the tenant who agrees to vacate. It’s often done for problem tenants, but it’s also offered in cases of solidarity or thanks to tenants a landlord cares about. She can look too, and you can support her to work her networks. And as all this support happens you can still maintain that boundary. But by separating the boundary and the work of solidarity and support, you might help dispel the guilt. Good luck and thank you for your compassion.
posted by The Last Sockpuppet at 8:30 PM on March 29, 2022 [10 favorites]
I don't know if you are doing this but when I'm in conflict with someone else, I have the habit of "testing" how my decisions and actions might seem to them by putting myself in their shoes, in my imagination.
Problem is, it's not a great way to deal with many situations, especially after I've already decided what to do.
It makes me constantly second guess myself.
So in case you are doing this too, with your housemate, try to stop.
Trust yourself that you have given this careful thought and have come to the right decision.
You don't really know what they think and feel, and in any case, their feelings are not more important than yours.
Good luck, and I hope it goes more smoothly than you fear.
posted by Zumbador at 8:38 PM on March 29, 2022 [3 favorites]
Problem is, it's not a great way to deal with many situations, especially after I've already decided what to do.
It makes me constantly second guess myself.
So in case you are doing this too, with your housemate, try to stop.
Trust yourself that you have given this careful thought and have come to the right decision.
You don't really know what they think and feel, and in any case, their feelings are not more important than yours.
Good luck, and I hope it goes more smoothly than you fear.
posted by Zumbador at 8:38 PM on March 29, 2022 [3 favorites]
It sounds like it's really hard for you to "be the bad guy" in this situation. In a way, your question reminds me of a lot of the relationship questions here where the person outlines the various difficulties in the relationship and then wants to know "am I justified in breaking up with them?"
This internet stranger gives you permission to break up with Jackie. To have your house, that you worked for and bought, all to yourself, for as long as you want to do that. To not have another adult, that is not your partner, financially dependent on you. These are completely reasonable things to want.
A few practical thoughts:
1. The suggestion of giving her some money is worth consideration. Not that you have to, or are morally or ethically obligated to, but it might make you feel better, and it will certainly make it easier for her. If she were to find another roommate situation, approximately what would it cost for first, last, and security deposit? Could you, without financial hardship, "lend" her this amount? Sometimes the cheapest way to pay for something is money.
2. Maintaining your boundary might be easier if you give up on her liking you after this is over. I'm not saying that it's impossible-- she might-- but if you recognize that she's probably going to be mad for a while, and may blame you for her situation*, then you won't be tempted to go back on your decisions because you want her goodwill. Because you've already recognized that you won't have it.
3. Try like hell not to keep the cats. Because if you do, it will provide a reason for Jackie to come by often, and this will test your boundaries even more.
*You are not to blame for her situation.
posted by tuesdayschild at 9:02 PM on March 29, 2022 [25 favorites]
This internet stranger gives you permission to break up with Jackie. To have your house, that you worked for and bought, all to yourself, for as long as you want to do that. To not have another adult, that is not your partner, financially dependent on you. These are completely reasonable things to want.
A few practical thoughts:
1. The suggestion of giving her some money is worth consideration. Not that you have to, or are morally or ethically obligated to, but it might make you feel better, and it will certainly make it easier for her. If she were to find another roommate situation, approximately what would it cost for first, last, and security deposit? Could you, without financial hardship, "lend" her this amount? Sometimes the cheapest way to pay for something is money.
2. Maintaining your boundary might be easier if you give up on her liking you after this is over. I'm not saying that it's impossible-- she might-- but if you recognize that she's probably going to be mad for a while, and may blame you for her situation*, then you won't be tempted to go back on your decisions because you want her goodwill. Because you've already recognized that you won't have it.
3. Try like hell not to keep the cats. Because if you do, it will provide a reason for Jackie to come by often, and this will test your boundaries even more.
*You are not to blame for her situation.
posted by tuesdayschild at 9:02 PM on March 29, 2022 [25 favorites]
Could you roleplay this with a trusted friend? The more you get used to hearing the objections, and responding to the objections, I think the easier it will be to do it when you have to have the real conversation with Jackie. Literally even just hearing yourself say the words (out loud!) over and over, your mouth and tongue forming the same shapes and sounds... it will make you more comfortable when the time comes.
posted by tinydancer at 9:06 PM on March 29, 2022 [3 favorites]
posted by tinydancer at 9:06 PM on March 29, 2022 [3 favorites]
This sounds really hard - I’m so sorry. I’m reminded of what I believe to be an old Emily Post quote: “I’m sorry, but that won’t be possible.” You could add, “This is the agreement *we made together*, and I am asking you to respect it.” (It feels pretty important for both you and Jackie to remember that this isn’t an arbitrary decision on your part - you already have given Jackie two extra months at her request.)
(But you have so much space!). “I’m sorry, but that won’t be possible. This is the agreement *we made together*, and I am asking you to respect it.”
(How could you do this to me?!) “I’m sorry, but that won’t be possible. This is the agreement *we made together*, and I am asking you to respect it.”
(etc.)
Some other things you might offer either in place of or in addition to a gift of money (I wouldn’t even call it a loan, so there’s no expectation of future conversation about it):
- Set aside time to help her look for places
- Help her write a post for that same FB group or for emailing to friends and friends of friends, looking for a situation
- Offer to write a letter of rec as a housemate
- Buy or source moving boxes and set aside time to help her pack
- Help find a foster for her cats, if that may be an issue for a new house
- Connect her to social services or a caseworker in your city or at local queer orgs - the idea that she otherwise would be planning to live in her car suggests that she needs more than just friend-support right now
A last thought in solidarity - I am so used to people saying no to my reasonable asks (or failing to live up to our previous agreements) that I believe this is what will ALWAYS happen. I often don’t even give myself the chance to try again, or give others the chance to be accountable. Jackie may have said what she did hoping for the miracle of Not Having To Do The Hard Thing of moving out, but still be capable of getting out in response to you kindly and firmly holding the boundary that the two of you set together.
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 9:46 PM on March 29, 2022 [9 favorites]
(But you have so much space!). “I’m sorry, but that won’t be possible. This is the agreement *we made together*, and I am asking you to respect it.”
(How could you do this to me?!) “I’m sorry, but that won’t be possible. This is the agreement *we made together*, and I am asking you to respect it.”
(etc.)
Some other things you might offer either in place of or in addition to a gift of money (I wouldn’t even call it a loan, so there’s no expectation of future conversation about it):
- Set aside time to help her look for places
- Help her write a post for that same FB group or for emailing to friends and friends of friends, looking for a situation
- Offer to write a letter of rec as a housemate
- Buy or source moving boxes and set aside time to help her pack
- Help find a foster for her cats, if that may be an issue for a new house
- Connect her to social services or a caseworker in your city or at local queer orgs - the idea that she otherwise would be planning to live in her car suggests that she needs more than just friend-support right now
A last thought in solidarity - I am so used to people saying no to my reasonable asks (or failing to live up to our previous agreements) that I believe this is what will ALWAYS happen. I often don’t even give myself the chance to try again, or give others the chance to be accountable. Jackie may have said what she did hoping for the miracle of Not Having To Do The Hard Thing of moving out, but still be capable of getting out in response to you kindly and firmly holding the boundary that the two of you set together.
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 9:46 PM on March 29, 2022 [9 favorites]
Also, if Jackie is a boss at home-help tasks, and your location is the same as on your profile, she might be able to get started relatively quickly on a flexible job like Task Rabbiting or grocery delivery - someone here just mentioned Dumpling, which connects people directly to personal shoppers. If she sets up a profile, you could book her through the apps and give her excellent reviews even before she moves out.
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 9:55 PM on March 29, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by rrrrrrrrrt at 9:55 PM on March 29, 2022 [7 favorites]
She asked if it would be okay if she alternated three weeks with me and one week elsewhere
This is a thing I call boundary hair-splitting. You said you need the house to yourself; this person is grasping at the implied statement that you just need a little alone time.
I also had a situation like this, where I offered a one-month launchpad and it took 13 months to actually get her gone. It was hard, because she had legitimate mental health issues and probably some neurodivergence and some marginalization that made her vulnerable (I even wondered for a brief moment if we were talking about the same person). But this behavior is manipulative; honesty is an option here and it's not the one being chosen. (Mine also had an extensive history of being thrown out of shared accommodation situations, and the stories she told eventually just stopped holding water; it's because she wouldn't pay rent and flat out pretend that was probably fine if nobody was violently losing their shit.)
I found out that if pushed far enough, I no longer was scared of being the bad guy. I had to use very specific words: living here is no longer an option for you, I am telling you that you have to find some other situation, I am not a temporary or intermittent option. You have used up the available time here for you.
She figured something out, once the line was drawn. You can draw a line. You can hate it and feel bad about it and still do it, which I think is a big part of moving past the mental blocks. Let it feel bad; welcome the discomfort. Know that there is increased comfort on the other side.
posted by Lyn Never at 10:22 PM on March 29, 2022 [31 favorites]
This is a thing I call boundary hair-splitting. You said you need the house to yourself; this person is grasping at the implied statement that you just need a little alone time.
I also had a situation like this, where I offered a one-month launchpad and it took 13 months to actually get her gone. It was hard, because she had legitimate mental health issues and probably some neurodivergence and some marginalization that made her vulnerable (I even wondered for a brief moment if we were talking about the same person). But this behavior is manipulative; honesty is an option here and it's not the one being chosen. (Mine also had an extensive history of being thrown out of shared accommodation situations, and the stories she told eventually just stopped holding water; it's because she wouldn't pay rent and flat out pretend that was probably fine if nobody was violently losing their shit.)
I found out that if pushed far enough, I no longer was scared of being the bad guy. I had to use very specific words: living here is no longer an option for you, I am telling you that you have to find some other situation, I am not a temporary or intermittent option. You have used up the available time here for you.
She figured something out, once the line was drawn. You can draw a line. You can hate it and feel bad about it and still do it, which I think is a big part of moving past the mental blocks. Let it feel bad; welcome the discomfort. Know that there is increased comfort on the other side.
posted by Lyn Never at 10:22 PM on March 29, 2022 [31 favorites]
Just a small suggestion to look into organizations that provide senior services. There are many older people who would desperately like to stay in their homes, but need some support. My grandmother needed that and we found her a roommate via Jewish Family Services. There might be someone who would be amenable to a similar situation as you have had with Jackie - chores, shopping, etc for subsidized rent
posted by brookeb at 10:30 PM on March 29, 2022 [7 favorites]
posted by brookeb at 10:30 PM on March 29, 2022 [7 favorites]
Best answer: You clearly know this from the text of your question, but there is a definite thing in queer communities about shared housing and non traditional living situations and tenuous verbal contracts about who owes what when and it’s all something that operates on a pretty different rubric than typical early career roommate stuff or hetero marrieds housing or even multi generational homes. So I think a lot of what you’re feeling and worrying about here is echoes of all that complexity and let’s face it, community trauma arising from generational marginalization, and applying this more general thing to your very specific situation.
I think you need to step back and look at the specifics of this one particular combination of you and Jackie, instead of making it a thing about unhoused trans people and depression and pandemic fallout.
It sounds like Jackie has a lot of valuable skills. She is skilled at a lot of household tasks, can drive a car well and has one of her own, knows how to care for cats (and that without a home she can’t have her own), and notably is not a bad housemate since you don’t mention this in your question at all. So I think she could find employment doing a lot of things that also include housing, like live-in care for someone elderly and/or disabled, long term house sitting for someone with pets, housekeeping in a place like a university or residence inn where accommodations could be part of the job… or she could do some of the many things that a car is vital for, like a delivery driver, personal shopper, or even learn to drive a bus - apparently school bus drivers are in high demand right now. And you could be a strong reference for her, and help her develop a few resumes for different types of jobs, or practice interviewing, etc.
As a person with cats I wonder if some of her reluctance is leaving them with you. I might work up a formal contract with her saying that as soon as she has stable housing you will definitely give them to her.
posted by Mizu at 10:31 PM on March 29, 2022 [25 favorites]
I think you need to step back and look at the specifics of this one particular combination of you and Jackie, instead of making it a thing about unhoused trans people and depression and pandemic fallout.
It sounds like Jackie has a lot of valuable skills. She is skilled at a lot of household tasks, can drive a car well and has one of her own, knows how to care for cats (and that without a home she can’t have her own), and notably is not a bad housemate since you don’t mention this in your question at all. So I think she could find employment doing a lot of things that also include housing, like live-in care for someone elderly and/or disabled, long term house sitting for someone with pets, housekeeping in a place like a university or residence inn where accommodations could be part of the job… or she could do some of the many things that a car is vital for, like a delivery driver, personal shopper, or even learn to drive a bus - apparently school bus drivers are in high demand right now. And you could be a strong reference for her, and help her develop a few resumes for different types of jobs, or practice interviewing, etc.
As a person with cats I wonder if some of her reluctance is leaving them with you. I might work up a formal contract with her saying that as soon as she has stable housing you will definitely give them to her.
posted by Mizu at 10:31 PM on March 29, 2022 [25 favorites]
Since on a quick skim, I didn't see mention of her being concerned she might not be able to find a place where she could have her cats... if she has any kind of a medical or mental health professional, or any kind of social service worker, that she could ask, she might well be able to obtain a letter for emotional support animal(s) for housing.
While it wouldn't always work if she was sharing a place with a roommate who was her landlord, if she sought her own housing - say, a low income apartment - that would allow her to have her cats, because they would no longer be considered "pets", and it would mean that she would also be freed from any requirements to pay pet deposit or pet rent.
posted by stormyteal at 11:06 PM on March 29, 2022
While it wouldn't always work if she was sharing a place with a roommate who was her landlord, if she sought her own housing - say, a low income apartment - that would allow her to have her cats, because they would no longer be considered "pets", and it would mean that she would also be freed from any requirements to pay pet deposit or pet rent.
posted by stormyteal at 11:06 PM on March 29, 2022
Reading through the other answers here while helping your housemate find employment and housing might be a good idea, I'd be very careful of offering to do any of that.
You need to separate yourself from her and make it very clear to her that you are not responsible for her future. For both of your sakes.
Doing some research on resources and giving her the information that you find (at the meeting, not as an ongoing thing) , or writing a letter of recommendation, that all sounds good.
But don't give her the impression that she can turn to you for help once x date has passed. It's not fair on either of you.
posted by Zumbador at 11:20 PM on March 29, 2022 [6 favorites]
You need to separate yourself from her and make it very clear to her that you are not responsible for her future. For both of your sakes.
Doing some research on resources and giving her the information that you find (at the meeting, not as an ongoing thing) , or writing a letter of recommendation, that all sounds good.
But don't give her the impression that she can turn to you for help once x date has passed. It's not fair on either of you.
posted by Zumbador at 11:20 PM on March 29, 2022 [6 favorites]
Jackie began helping me out with some tasks to supplement her unemployment. She drove me to work during the week for a fixed weekly rate. (I do not have a car). She picked up some cleaning around the house that I would have otherwise done. Eventually, this turned into an agreement where, in exchange for heavily subsidizing her rent, she did my share of the household chores. Since I worked an odd schedule and had a job I hated and consumed all my mental energy, this worked out pretty well
you absolutely can and should end your arrangement and ask her to leave your home without needing absolution or excuses. however, framing your extensive employment of her driving & chore services as “helping” rather than hiring her, which is what you did do, leaves an unpleasant impression. firing people sucks and everybody wants to figure out a way to tactfully hint that the person should quit on their own so as not to make you have to feel bad. but there is no way to do that. It may be that you massively overpaid for her services; depending on her hours I suppose it’s possible. but treat it as a labor issue not a boundaries issue. because, through your mutual choices, it is one.
posted by queenofbithynia at 12:01 AM on March 30, 2022 [6 favorites]
you absolutely can and should end your arrangement and ask her to leave your home without needing absolution or excuses. however, framing your extensive employment of her driving & chore services as “helping” rather than hiring her, which is what you did do, leaves an unpleasant impression. firing people sucks and everybody wants to figure out a way to tactfully hint that the person should quit on their own so as not to make you have to feel bad. but there is no way to do that. It may be that you massively overpaid for her services; depending on her hours I suppose it’s possible. but treat it as a labor issue not a boundaries issue. because, through your mutual choices, it is one.
posted by queenofbithynia at 12:01 AM on March 30, 2022 [6 favorites]
Going against the grain here a little, but
I know, better than many folks in my income bracket, just how bleak the “help” offered to unhoused people is, and it is many times worse if you are trans, as Jackie is.
-I’m mad at myself for not setting a good boundary the first time. I’m so ashamed that I caved to her, and avoiding the confrontation now is a sort of self-punishment for not being firm enough before
these two things are kind of contradictory. Boundaries vs. homelessness - maybe it makes sense to be frustrated with yourself for acting like the second carries more weight than the first, but I don't think it makes sense to be ashamed. If you truly think her mental health situation is such that she might end up homeless, I mean, that's a hell of a thing.
So I don't know what to tell you, and I viscerally sympathize with your desire to be alone, but I'd stop beating yourself up about not valuing boundaries unambiguously over homelessness.
posted by trig at 2:24 AM on March 30, 2022 [5 favorites]
I know, better than many folks in my income bracket, just how bleak the “help” offered to unhoused people is, and it is many times worse if you are trans, as Jackie is.
-I’m mad at myself for not setting a good boundary the first time. I’m so ashamed that I caved to her, and avoiding the confrontation now is a sort of self-punishment for not being firm enough before
these two things are kind of contradictory. Boundaries vs. homelessness - maybe it makes sense to be frustrated with yourself for acting like the second carries more weight than the first, but I don't think it makes sense to be ashamed. If you truly think her mental health situation is such that she might end up homeless, I mean, that's a hell of a thing.
So I don't know what to tell you, and I viscerally sympathize with your desire to be alone, but I'd stop beating yourself up about not valuing boundaries unambiguously over homelessness.
posted by trig at 2:24 AM on March 30, 2022 [5 favorites]
You were generous to someone, and generous again and again. And - now you know endlessly supporting her is not in both of your best interests. But, you are trying to find the maximally generous way to help. Well - thanks for being so generous!
So - it seems like the question is - what is the maximally generous way to get her on her feet? I'm sure you don't want to kick her out and she live in her car. But - for Jackie, a little will go a long way across the board.
Maximally Generous Housing Help: What is the rental situation there? Are there low income rental options? A long term shelter? You could buy her 3-6 months rent and 3-6 months phone bill - that would be extremely generous, and allow her to establish herself. Maybe not in downtown philly, but is there a (distant, if necessary) city that's more affordable?
Maximally Generous Income Help: What can she do for income? Of course there's the obvious - she could provide the services she did for you... for other people! She could do grocery delivery, or housecleaning! Both of those aren't the highest pay, but it's enough to pay low-income housing rent. Or, even better, you could break her out of the gig economy and into a real career in a high-demand field. You could pay for her to take a 6 month tech training to be a tech at a hospital, or PCA work usually requires little/no instruction. Or, she could get certified to do childcare. All are in high demand and would pay her a lot more than gig work.
Maximally Generous Financial Help: What if her car breaks? What if she has an unexpected issue? I would additionally budget another few thousand to give her, or hold in reserve in your own account, for if she has an issue. You can tell her it's there. Because it will definitely happen before she's fully on her feet.
Maximally Generous Paperwork/Research help what public welfare can you get them signed up for? Food stamps, etc? Make sure to help go through all of the financial aid and benefits available for her. For instance, Illinois has a program where lower income people get free Lasik. There's also programs to help with rent and utilities bills. Maybe she qualifies for disability. Do some research on what's available, and consider reaching out to organizations who support people getting back on their feet for advice, and help her start to fill out paperwork.
So, the above is the maximally helpful things you could do, and would maybe cost $8-$12k and a lot of time. You could:
Do all of the above.
Do the above, but stagger the help (housing after income, no housing help), etc.
Do none of the above.
Share the financial burden with friends and family: Explain the situation to friends and family, and ask if they'd like to support Jackie getting back on her feet. A lot of people want to give to charity, but are stalled by big, greedy-seeming charities, and would chip in. I would have your target be the full amount, and just casually ask some friends and family. I think you'd be surprised. Asking for charity is extremely difficult when it's for yourself, but it's not as bad when it's for someone else (and you only ask once, and it's obviously genuine).
Then, I would excitedly share with Jackie the next steps - no, she won't be living in a car, in the next month, we're going to go apartment shopping in (x town) that will be X/month, and you'll be covering the first x months, and call (hospital/childcare certifications/tech schools/uber grubhub aldi costco peapod instacart), and I'll have X amount in a savings account for you if you need it for emergencies, and I found these 3 programs to help you get free food and groceries and lasik and etc. You won't be living on the street, but you can do a lot better than living here. And of course she can store some stuff, and have the cats here until she can take them, and join you for meals, but she can't spend the night after X date.
And then... maybe after all of that, when your rent wears off, and they don't make it on time for a job enough and get laid off, then she'll be living in their car for a bit. Maybe she'll ask you for the emergency money just to pay rent (yes, give it to her).
Because, and I know you feel this - Jackie is part of your family now. You've taken her in for 3 years, and you care about her well being. You know nobody will have the same feeling as you. But you also know she can be a better version of herself. You are in the same position as parents with 22 year old children, who want to see them do well. And... well, there's no right answer. You can only do you best. Maybe after this long experiment, you'll see she's struggling and let her back in. Maybe she'll never talk to you again. Maybe she'll flourish with a small sense of pressure. Helping her have the best possible outcome is the maximally generous thing.
posted by bbqturtle at 4:43 AM on March 30, 2022
So - it seems like the question is - what is the maximally generous way to get her on her feet? I'm sure you don't want to kick her out and she live in her car. But - for Jackie, a little will go a long way across the board.
Maximally Generous Housing Help: What is the rental situation there? Are there low income rental options? A long term shelter? You could buy her 3-6 months rent and 3-6 months phone bill - that would be extremely generous, and allow her to establish herself. Maybe not in downtown philly, but is there a (distant, if necessary) city that's more affordable?
Maximally Generous Income Help: What can she do for income? Of course there's the obvious - she could provide the services she did for you... for other people! She could do grocery delivery, or housecleaning! Both of those aren't the highest pay, but it's enough to pay low-income housing rent. Or, even better, you could break her out of the gig economy and into a real career in a high-demand field. You could pay for her to take a 6 month tech training to be a tech at a hospital, or PCA work usually requires little/no instruction. Or, she could get certified to do childcare. All are in high demand and would pay her a lot more than gig work.
Maximally Generous Financial Help: What if her car breaks? What if she has an unexpected issue? I would additionally budget another few thousand to give her, or hold in reserve in your own account, for if she has an issue. You can tell her it's there. Because it will definitely happen before she's fully on her feet.
Maximally Generous Paperwork/Research help what public welfare can you get them signed up for? Food stamps, etc? Make sure to help go through all of the financial aid and benefits available for her. For instance, Illinois has a program where lower income people get free Lasik. There's also programs to help with rent and utilities bills. Maybe she qualifies for disability. Do some research on what's available, and consider reaching out to organizations who support people getting back on their feet for advice, and help her start to fill out paperwork.
So, the above is the maximally helpful things you could do, and would maybe cost $8-$12k and a lot of time. You could:
Do all of the above.
Do the above, but stagger the help (housing after income, no housing help), etc.
Do none of the above.
Share the financial burden with friends and family: Explain the situation to friends and family, and ask if they'd like to support Jackie getting back on her feet. A lot of people want to give to charity, but are stalled by big, greedy-seeming charities, and would chip in. I would have your target be the full amount, and just casually ask some friends and family. I think you'd be surprised. Asking for charity is extremely difficult when it's for yourself, but it's not as bad when it's for someone else (and you only ask once, and it's obviously genuine).
Then, I would excitedly share with Jackie the next steps - no, she won't be living in a car, in the next month, we're going to go apartment shopping in (x town) that will be X/month, and you'll be covering the first x months, and call (hospital/childcare certifications/tech schools/uber grubhub aldi costco peapod instacart), and I'll have X amount in a savings account for you if you need it for emergencies, and I found these 3 programs to help you get free food and groceries and lasik and etc. You won't be living on the street, but you can do a lot better than living here. And of course she can store some stuff, and have the cats here until she can take them, and join you for meals, but she can't spend the night after X date.
And then... maybe after all of that, when your rent wears off, and they don't make it on time for a job enough and get laid off, then she'll be living in their car for a bit. Maybe she'll ask you for the emergency money just to pay rent (yes, give it to her).
Because, and I know you feel this - Jackie is part of your family now. You've taken her in for 3 years, and you care about her well being. You know nobody will have the same feeling as you. But you also know she can be a better version of herself. You are in the same position as parents with 22 year old children, who want to see them do well. And... well, there's no right answer. You can only do you best. Maybe after this long experiment, you'll see she's struggling and let her back in. Maybe she'll never talk to you again. Maybe she'll flourish with a small sense of pressure. Helping her have the best possible outcome is the maximally generous thing.
posted by bbqturtle at 4:43 AM on March 30, 2022
I was once in a similar situation with a relative. She asked if she could move in with me so she could leave an emotionally abusive situation in a different state and get on her feet at my place. I agreed, she came to stay ... and eventually I had to ask her to leave because she was unable to pay rent and I could not carry the rent on our apartment alone.
This was heartbreaking and awkward and she did not speak to me for a year. The relative was also homeless for a time. At some point the relative got into a shelter, got access to medical care (including mental health), eventually got into subsidised housing, and is now on disability. We are also close again.
My situation is not your situation. My relative had to leave, or we both would have ended up homeless. Even though it was hard, she is now–several years later–in a much more stable and healthy situation, able to pay her own rent and get the medication she needs. I am not one of those people who believe that everything turns out for the best or that everything that happens, happens for a reason. That's bullshit, in my experience. Still, Al-Anon talks about giving people the dignity to make their own decisions as adults and not treating them like children who are incapable of making their own choices.
You have been a good housemate and (I hope) a good employer. That does not obligate you to be the keeper of your housemate forever. My relative was simply unable to plan ahead (some of us are like that) until she got more help, in this case help courtesy of the homeless shelter. Not every shelter has such services. My relative was lucky, while I was determined. I was determined to hold my boundary about her moving out because otherwise I was going to drown. I knew she would stay with me forever unless I put a stop to it.
As noted above, you get to break up with your housemate. It will not be easy; you will probably feel shitty about it still. But you need to hold your boundary, ideally with grace and generosity, to get what you need. It is okay to get what you need. I know that is a revolutionary idea for many of us, but it is true. Good luck!
posted by Bella Donna at 6:50 AM on March 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
This was heartbreaking and awkward and she did not speak to me for a year. The relative was also homeless for a time. At some point the relative got into a shelter, got access to medical care (including mental health), eventually got into subsidised housing, and is now on disability. We are also close again.
My situation is not your situation. My relative had to leave, or we both would have ended up homeless. Even though it was hard, she is now–several years later–in a much more stable and healthy situation, able to pay her own rent and get the medication she needs. I am not one of those people who believe that everything turns out for the best or that everything that happens, happens for a reason. That's bullshit, in my experience. Still, Al-Anon talks about giving people the dignity to make their own decisions as adults and not treating them like children who are incapable of making their own choices.
You have been a good housemate and (I hope) a good employer. That does not obligate you to be the keeper of your housemate forever. My relative was simply unable to plan ahead (some of us are like that) until she got more help, in this case help courtesy of the homeless shelter. Not every shelter has such services. My relative was lucky, while I was determined. I was determined to hold my boundary about her moving out because otherwise I was going to drown. I knew she would stay with me forever unless I put a stop to it.
As noted above, you get to break up with your housemate. It will not be easy; you will probably feel shitty about it still. But you need to hold your boundary, ideally with grace and generosity, to get what you need. It is okay to get what you need. I know that is a revolutionary idea for many of us, but it is true. Good luck!
posted by Bella Donna at 6:50 AM on March 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Two comments and a question:
1. If you are a deeply empathic person with poor boundaries then when you start to establish boundaries, you are going to feel really terrible. I know. It feels like shit. There is absolutely no way of escaping this. You can prolong it, you can temporarily soften it but you really can't escape the pain of what it feels like to disappoint another person. It's the biggest obstacle for people not used to setting strict boundaries.
I actually think you've done well. You told her that you needed space. Sure, you softened the boundary somewhat but you can come back from it. You did it before, you can do it again.
It would be a good idea to remember how bad it feels to have to do this all over again because you didn't stick to your guns the first time round. So next time you get sweet talked into taking the fence down, think "oh God no. I don't want to have to go through this all over again". Only put yourself through this pain once more.
2. Did you ask her where she would sleep or did she volunteer the info that she would be sleeping in her car? Just wondering if she was deliberately pulling on the heart strings with clenched fists.
3. Tell her you will write her a job reference.
posted by ihaveyourfoot at 6:58 AM on March 30, 2022 [6 favorites]
1. If you are a deeply empathic person with poor boundaries then when you start to establish boundaries, you are going to feel really terrible. I know. It feels like shit. There is absolutely no way of escaping this. You can prolong it, you can temporarily soften it but you really can't escape the pain of what it feels like to disappoint another person. It's the biggest obstacle for people not used to setting strict boundaries.
I actually think you've done well. You told her that you needed space. Sure, you softened the boundary somewhat but you can come back from it. You did it before, you can do it again.
It would be a good idea to remember how bad it feels to have to do this all over again because you didn't stick to your guns the first time round. So next time you get sweet talked into taking the fence down, think "oh God no. I don't want to have to go through this all over again". Only put yourself through this pain once more.
2. Did you ask her where she would sleep or did she volunteer the info that she would be sleeping in her car? Just wondering if she was deliberately pulling on the heart strings with clenched fists.
3. Tell her you will write her a job reference.
posted by ihaveyourfoot at 6:58 AM on March 30, 2022 [6 favorites]
I think the advice about preparing to feel bad is right. No matter how much you try to help her find her next step, the problem is, you want her out, and she wants to stay. The idea of helping her may run into constant resistance because, to her, that will be a step less comfortable. We might see it as "that is so much better than staying in her car," whereas Jackie might see it as "that is so much worse than staying at OP's."
One thing to focus on is her autonomy to make choices and how she's using it. How would you be handling all of this? What could she be doing? (E.g., if she can do chores to you for rent, can she do it for someone else or as a job?) Obviously mental health makes a big difference, and I don't mean to blame her, but this can help you internally shift out of feeling defensive of your choices.
One other tip: I don't know how much stuff she has, but a lot of self storage places will give you the first 30-60 days free. You could even pay for the first X months for her if that feels right. Just an option if that helps you and her get her stuff moved somewhere while she continues to do some couch surfing.
-I feel vaguely guilty about wanting to be alone in my rather large house. Why does one little me need four bedrooms?
1. Show the same care to your own needs (for a lot of space) as you did to hers (to not work for awhile).
2. You're a generous person, but that doesn't mean all your capacity for generosity has to go to her. If you had those rooms open, after a year of living alone, you could potentially work with an organization housing refugees to give someone else a stepping stone, or rent it out a few nights a month on AirBnB and give the money to charity. I'm not saying you need to do these things. I'm just saying that you don't need to make her the recipient of every ounce of extra you have.
posted by slidell at 7:18 AM on March 30, 2022 [3 favorites]
One thing to focus on is her autonomy to make choices and how she's using it. How would you be handling all of this? What could she be doing? (E.g., if she can do chores to you for rent, can she do it for someone else or as a job?) Obviously mental health makes a big difference, and I don't mean to blame her, but this can help you internally shift out of feeling defensive of your choices.
One other tip: I don't know how much stuff she has, but a lot of self storage places will give you the first 30-60 days free. You could even pay for the first X months for her if that feels right. Just an option if that helps you and her get her stuff moved somewhere while she continues to do some couch surfing.
-I feel vaguely guilty about wanting to be alone in my rather large house. Why does one little me need four bedrooms?
1. Show the same care to your own needs (for a lot of space) as you did to hers (to not work for awhile).
2. You're a generous person, but that doesn't mean all your capacity for generosity has to go to her. If you had those rooms open, after a year of living alone, you could potentially work with an organization housing refugees to give someone else a stepping stone, or rent it out a few nights a month on AirBnB and give the money to charity. I'm not saying you need to do these things. I'm just saying that you don't need to make her the recipient of every ounce of extra you have.
posted by slidell at 7:18 AM on March 30, 2022 [3 favorites]
I'm with Trig--I have both been and had the bad roommate and boundaries had to be stated and it was messy and emotionally hard. However, at no time was anyone involved at risk of sleeping rough or entering the shelter system.
This seems to be about competing Maslow's pyramid needs--your need for emotional security vs Jackie's need for shelter--and having to confront the reality that those are incongruous.
posted by kingdead at 8:28 AM on March 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
This seems to be about competing Maslow's pyramid needs--your need for emotional security vs Jackie's need for shelter--and having to confront the reality that those are incongruous.
posted by kingdead at 8:28 AM on March 30, 2022 [1 favorite]
She asked if it would be okay if she alternated three weeks with me and one week elsewhere. I was so flabbergasted by how not okay this plan is that I couldn’t say anything in the moment and said I’d think on it.
Would it make you feel less bad if you looked at this differently. She appears to be confident that she can be somewhere else for 3 weeks in a month. You are not the only housing option that she's prepared to accept, she's just hoping that you'll be in the mix. Unfortunately that's not possible.
I agree with others that you need to get used to the idea that she can be really, really unhappy with you about this and you can live with her being unhappy with you. Even if you offer every conceivable help in finding a new place to live and a new employer. It's not reasonable to expect everyone to like our decisions that make their lives harder, or even just less comfortable. She doesn't have to believe that she would do the same thing in your position, agree with your reasoning or understand where you are coming from, even though that would be nice. You just need her to leave.
posted by plonkee at 9:48 AM on March 30, 2022
Would it make you feel less bad if you looked at this differently. She appears to be confident that she can be somewhere else for 3 weeks in a month. You are not the only housing option that she's prepared to accept, she's just hoping that you'll be in the mix. Unfortunately that's not possible.
I agree with others that you need to get used to the idea that she can be really, really unhappy with you about this and you can live with her being unhappy with you. Even if you offer every conceivable help in finding a new place to live and a new employer. It's not reasonable to expect everyone to like our decisions that make their lives harder, or even just less comfortable. She doesn't have to believe that she would do the same thing in your position, agree with your reasoning or understand where you are coming from, even though that would be nice. You just need her to leave.
posted by plonkee at 9:48 AM on March 30, 2022
My suggestion is as it stands you are not wanting this to weigh heavily on you as it needs to be done but you more than likely will have a heavy heart after making the decision and making it stick. You should ask for her to get a job,and still ask for her to move out just if she gets a jjob you will have the peace to know she can sustain herself and maybe to cut your guilt in half you can offer to pay for a moving truck or some week at a local motel that she can afford after that. It may go unnoticed by her that the original agreement still is valid but it seems more important for you to keep your sanity than coddle a full grown woman out of unemployment moochery in perpetuity. The Gods have already smiled favorably upon you you can go in peace without letting this eat at your good heart.
posted by The_imp_inimpossible at 12:52 AM on April 1, 2022
posted by The_imp_inimpossible at 12:52 AM on April 1, 2022
This thread is closed to new comments.
I think it's okay to be like "Hey Jackie, I thought about it and, no it's not going to work for you to alternate being here sometimes and gone sometimes. I need time and space to myself and you need a different plan that is not my subsidizing your life. We have a month for you to make a plan but the boundary I set before? I mean it. We've been roommates since March 2020 and I need to not have a roommate for a while." and then think about what compromise positions you could do, Hang on to cats? Offer to store her stuff? Help her with rent on another place? Give an honest assessment of her good qualities to help her get a roommate situation? Offer her travel money to go stay with other people?
Because, I know it's hard, my mother lived in a large two-family house and was often helping people out who were down on their luck and she really helped some people in meaningful ways by letting them live in the other side of her house. But some of those people couldn't be helped with money and space and needed help that was more intensive than she could offer. And it is okay to just not want to live with someone and not support another person. It's okay to have boundaries and I'm sorry that Jackie is having a hard time but she's not your partner (I am assuming) and it's okay to not treat her like one.
posted by jessamyn at 7:29 PM on March 29, 2022 [24 favorites]