Is there ever healing from a bad childhood?
September 12, 2021 5:25 PM Subscribe
I feel like the (exhausting) work I’ve done to get over issues stemming from having two very narcissistic and emotionally abusive parents has amounted to very little. I haven’t accepted anything and I’m still very very angry about it. Is all this effort just pointless?
Im a woman in my mid thirties who grew up with a set of narcissistic and incredibly self-involved parents, just like these black holes of need and attention. Ever since I can remember myself everything was centered around their needs and they always presented themselves as victims of unfair and cruel fates and thus entitled to everyone’s sympathy. In reality they were the architects of every single mishap they’ve had in life and objectively, none of the things they lamented over were even that serious to merit such intense feelings of calamity on their part.
They were also extremely manipulative, and verbally and emotionally abusive so I learned early on to suppress expressing any needs since they would always go unmet and I’d get chastised and shamed for having expressed them.
Not surprising for being the child of such parents , I grew up to have a lovely catalog of emotional issues like low self esteem, abandonment issues, susceptible to depression and anxiety, and prone to existential dead or feelings of emptiness.
I’ve worked hard (I think) to move on and not let the bitterness and anger ruin my life. I’ve tried to do the work on my own by reading books such as Miller’s “The Drama of the Gifted Child” and others about self involved or narcissistic parents. These books were very helpful in validating or giving a name to a lot of the things I felt but other than that, I didn’t find the exercises particularly helpful.
I’ve also tried the CBT route but after trying 3 different therapists in a period of 9 months I gave up because none was a good fit, one was particularly awful and I suspect she was a narcissist herself and in general, it did nothing for me at all.
Now as an adult the dynamic of the relationship has changed, so they’re narcissistic in different ways than when I was a kid. They’re self absorbed as ever but now that they can’t control me they make it very clear that they have very little interest in my life. They only care to be involved to the extent that it can somehow benefit them, or at a minimum not inconvenience them. They treat my brother, who is their golden child, like he’s the center of their existence, which has been the case since he was born.
I feel like the relationship with them is a perpetual trauma. But I can’t cut contact and not have a family at all, no contact is simply not an option for me at this stage. At the same time, 9 out of 10 times I interact with them I feel a profound sadness afterwards over the loss of something I never had, loving parents. I realize that as much as ever, if I were to need them they would be entire unable to provide any kind of parental support.
I’ve put all of my energy into making some half assed peace with that feeling but it spills over into other aspects of my life. For example I’m married to a great partner but the sense of profound loneliness never goes away. i always feel like my heart “just knows” that one day he too will leave me and I’ll be completely alone . There is just this perpetual gray that colors everything else.
After having tried, and failed, to make any significant progress emotionally, I feel like there is no point anymore in still trying. Does anything ever help? Is there anything someone can actually do to undo the damage of 18+ years batshit, bad parenting? Would it be easier if I just accepted that it is what it is, this was my draw and I’ll have to limp through life mostly unhappy? I appreciate any thoughts you may have.
Im a woman in my mid thirties who grew up with a set of narcissistic and incredibly self-involved parents, just like these black holes of need and attention. Ever since I can remember myself everything was centered around their needs and they always presented themselves as victims of unfair and cruel fates and thus entitled to everyone’s sympathy. In reality they were the architects of every single mishap they’ve had in life and objectively, none of the things they lamented over were even that serious to merit such intense feelings of calamity on their part.
They were also extremely manipulative, and verbally and emotionally abusive so I learned early on to suppress expressing any needs since they would always go unmet and I’d get chastised and shamed for having expressed them.
Not surprising for being the child of such parents , I grew up to have a lovely catalog of emotional issues like low self esteem, abandonment issues, susceptible to depression and anxiety, and prone to existential dead or feelings of emptiness.
I’ve worked hard (I think) to move on and not let the bitterness and anger ruin my life. I’ve tried to do the work on my own by reading books such as Miller’s “The Drama of the Gifted Child” and others about self involved or narcissistic parents. These books were very helpful in validating or giving a name to a lot of the things I felt but other than that, I didn’t find the exercises particularly helpful.
I’ve also tried the CBT route but after trying 3 different therapists in a period of 9 months I gave up because none was a good fit, one was particularly awful and I suspect she was a narcissist herself and in general, it did nothing for me at all.
Now as an adult the dynamic of the relationship has changed, so they’re narcissistic in different ways than when I was a kid. They’re self absorbed as ever but now that they can’t control me they make it very clear that they have very little interest in my life. They only care to be involved to the extent that it can somehow benefit them, or at a minimum not inconvenience them. They treat my brother, who is their golden child, like he’s the center of their existence, which has been the case since he was born.
I feel like the relationship with them is a perpetual trauma. But I can’t cut contact and not have a family at all, no contact is simply not an option for me at this stage. At the same time, 9 out of 10 times I interact with them I feel a profound sadness afterwards over the loss of something I never had, loving parents. I realize that as much as ever, if I were to need them they would be entire unable to provide any kind of parental support.
I’ve put all of my energy into making some half assed peace with that feeling but it spills over into other aspects of my life. For example I’m married to a great partner but the sense of profound loneliness never goes away. i always feel like my heart “just knows” that one day he too will leave me and I’ll be completely alone . There is just this perpetual gray that colors everything else.
After having tried, and failed, to make any significant progress emotionally, I feel like there is no point anymore in still trying. Does anything ever help? Is there anything someone can actually do to undo the damage of 18+ years batshit, bad parenting? Would it be easier if I just accepted that it is what it is, this was my draw and I’ll have to limp through life mostly unhappy? I appreciate any thoughts you may have.
Best answer: No, no one has to give up and limp through life unhappy. It sounds like despite your view, you have come a long way. I am not quite sure why the no contact thing is worse than having a family that sucks the life out of you, but that is your call. I do not have any specific material to read or to offer nor do I have great advice beyond, KEEP TRYING. 3 therapists sucked? Try 3 more. It may well be a life time of trying, but one can reach a level of happiness through the journey rather than the end. I am not sure how you define happiness. Is that just a lack of having to deal with the ramifications of your childhood? Maybe, you can find happiness in something or in doing something. I find joy in my relationship, in my kids, and in things like hanging out with friends or playing on a softball team or reading a really good book that makes me think or makes me question my preconceived notions. I do not think I will ever be, nor do I wish to be, one of those always smiling, can't wait to start the day people. That to me is not happiness, it is angst. Set a goal; a small goal. An emotional goal. Something like I wish to find a hobby that will bring me a sense of accomplishment. That could be anything from doing jigsaw puzzles to collecting corny jokes. Back to your direct question, yes, things do help. A lot of times it is things you do not realize until much later. I have a friend that adopted a three legged deaf dog. It has totally changed their perspective on life. You never know what tomorrow will bring. Keep trying. You may not know it or believe it, but you are already on the path.
posted by AugustWest at 5:42 PM on September 12, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by AugustWest at 5:42 PM on September 12, 2021 [3 favorites]
Best answer: For example I’m married to a great partner but the sense of profound loneliness never goes away. i always feel like my heart “just knows” that one day he too will leave me and I’ll be completely alone.
This is an interesting insight. I realized (finally, in therapy, after thinking about trying therapy for, oh, ten years), that I had been holding space for something similar. It was a background vigilance for my relationship to become the kind of relationship that would need direct action to be taken on my part...similar to action that needed to be taken by my mother in the face of a dysfunctional and abusive marriage. My parents stayed together. I've never thought that they should have and, in part, my mother chose her marriage over me. Or, at least, this is the resulting feeling and baggage that I carry even as I have a relationship with her.
It has taken me years to feel like my partner would not turn into a person like my father with his types of issues. As a child, the adults act in ways that are confusing and you come up with a child's narrative to make sense of it. My mom referenced before kids as a time when he was different. So, he must have been different and then became awful, right? Now, I'm coming to realize that while I accepted that my partner was not like my father (why would he be) and wouldn't become like him just randomly (because that's not the kind of person he is) what I still held onto was the ways in which I might be called upon to protect my child. I might be called to be like my mom and I would have to do it better.
But...as it turns out...those times are not going to be coming. We may have other challenges but they are not those challenges. My child will certainly have things to complain about as all children do but she won't have this. I know it for a fact. So, how do I set down this background radiation of vigilance and expectation? What am I without this tension in my life? I'm still working on that but maybe something in this line of thought resonates with you.
I think when you've had a traumatic childhood and a dysfunctional upbringing, it is incredibly difficult to "unlearn" this way of being. Vigilance and defensiveness protected you. You did that. You survived. What happens if you let it go? Is it even possible? Can you set down that backpack of tension and walk away? What if you looked at your partner and just said, "You are not that person. I am not those people. We will not need to fight those fights."?
posted by amanda at 5:46 PM on September 12, 2021 [18 favorites]
This is an interesting insight. I realized (finally, in therapy, after thinking about trying therapy for, oh, ten years), that I had been holding space for something similar. It was a background vigilance for my relationship to become the kind of relationship that would need direct action to be taken on my part...similar to action that needed to be taken by my mother in the face of a dysfunctional and abusive marriage. My parents stayed together. I've never thought that they should have and, in part, my mother chose her marriage over me. Or, at least, this is the resulting feeling and baggage that I carry even as I have a relationship with her.
It has taken me years to feel like my partner would not turn into a person like my father with his types of issues. As a child, the adults act in ways that are confusing and you come up with a child's narrative to make sense of it. My mom referenced before kids as a time when he was different. So, he must have been different and then became awful, right? Now, I'm coming to realize that while I accepted that my partner was not like my father (why would he be) and wouldn't become like him just randomly (because that's not the kind of person he is) what I still held onto was the ways in which I might be called upon to protect my child. I might be called to be like my mom and I would have to do it better.
But...as it turns out...those times are not going to be coming. We may have other challenges but they are not those challenges. My child will certainly have things to complain about as all children do but she won't have this. I know it for a fact. So, how do I set down this background radiation of vigilance and expectation? What am I without this tension in my life? I'm still working on that but maybe something in this line of thought resonates with you.
I think when you've had a traumatic childhood and a dysfunctional upbringing, it is incredibly difficult to "unlearn" this way of being. Vigilance and defensiveness protected you. You did that. You survived. What happens if you let it go? Is it even possible? Can you set down that backpack of tension and walk away? What if you looked at your partner and just said, "You are not that person. I am not those people. We will not need to fight those fights."?
posted by amanda at 5:46 PM on September 12, 2021 [18 favorites]
One possible resource for you might be Adult Children of Alcoholics/Dysfunctional Families.
Things can get better. Hang in there.
posted by bunderful at 5:47 PM on September 12, 2021 [2 favorites]
Things can get better. Hang in there.
posted by bunderful at 5:47 PM on September 12, 2021 [2 favorites]
You and I had similar parents it seems. I felt/feel very much the same way you describe yourself feeling.
There's a book called The Prince Of Tides where the narrator says "There's no fixing a damaged childhood. The best you can hope for is to make that sucker float." I do think that is, unfortunately, sort of true. I've been so lucky in my life, I have a great husband, a great career, great travels, great friends, but none of it ever really fills that deep, ugly, wounded childhood. Therapy (once I finally found a good therapist) helps a bit, in that it showed me how to keep myself safe and strong when I have to deal with my family, now, as an adult. But as far as healing up the past, I don't think anything can really do that. I hope I'm wrong, though. Maybe others will have better answers.
posted by WalkerWestridge at 5:49 PM on September 12, 2021 [4 favorites]
There's a book called The Prince Of Tides where the narrator says "There's no fixing a damaged childhood. The best you can hope for is to make that sucker float." I do think that is, unfortunately, sort of true. I've been so lucky in my life, I have a great husband, a great career, great travels, great friends, but none of it ever really fills that deep, ugly, wounded childhood. Therapy (once I finally found a good therapist) helps a bit, in that it showed me how to keep myself safe and strong when I have to deal with my family, now, as an adult. But as far as healing up the past, I don't think anything can really do that. I hope I'm wrong, though. Maybe others will have better answers.
posted by WalkerWestridge at 5:49 PM on September 12, 2021 [4 favorites]
I'm in a very similar situation. CBT was not useful for me because it focuses on changing your belief patterns, rather than on interrogating where those belief patterns come from. Internal family systems work, coupled with emotion focused therapy, has been a much better fit for me. I finally feel like I'm making progress. I can have my weekly phone call with my parents now without experiencing that intense grief you describe, because I'm doing some processing of that grief in a safe place with someone who is teaching me how to feel my feelings (my therapist).
One of the things that growing up with narcissistic parents did to me is that my feelings were never allowed to have space. My parent's feelings took up all the space, and any feelings I had were a problem to be solved. So I learned to not feel my feelings, especially in front of other people, in order to keep myself safe. This led to a lot of intense loneliness, like you describe, and has made it really hard for me to ever connect fully with other people because I've always got the specter of having love/care/support pulled away from me hovering over my head. I say this because I think working with a good, non-CBT therapist has actually been key to my progress. One of the things that I need to learn is to have full feelings with other people in a way that is safe. So I really encourage you to try a different therapeutic modality. I looked for a therapist who had experience with trauma, internal family systems, emotion focused therapy, or attachment. In our first meeting I told them that I had tried CBT in the past and didn't find that it worked well for me. I met with a few different therapists and decided to keep seeing the one that I see now. We have never gotten into the CBT stuff, and for that I am grateful, because it was just not the right modality for me/my needs. I hope you can try a different kind of therapy and that you can find someone that's a better fit, because I do think that things can absolutely get better.
posted by twelve cent archie at 5:53 PM on September 12, 2021 [31 favorites]
One of the things that growing up with narcissistic parents did to me is that my feelings were never allowed to have space. My parent's feelings took up all the space, and any feelings I had were a problem to be solved. So I learned to not feel my feelings, especially in front of other people, in order to keep myself safe. This led to a lot of intense loneliness, like you describe, and has made it really hard for me to ever connect fully with other people because I've always got the specter of having love/care/support pulled away from me hovering over my head. I say this because I think working with a good, non-CBT therapist has actually been key to my progress. One of the things that I need to learn is to have full feelings with other people in a way that is safe. So I really encourage you to try a different therapeutic modality. I looked for a therapist who had experience with trauma, internal family systems, emotion focused therapy, or attachment. In our first meeting I told them that I had tried CBT in the past and didn't find that it worked well for me. I met with a few different therapists and decided to keep seeing the one that I see now. We have never gotten into the CBT stuff, and for that I am grateful, because it was just not the right modality for me/my needs. I hope you can try a different kind of therapy and that you can find someone that's a better fit, because I do think that things can absolutely get better.
posted by twelve cent archie at 5:53 PM on September 12, 2021 [31 favorites]
I get the sense of frustration, as someone who grew up with shitty parenting. Sometimes it feels like it will never be over and done with.
Anger, I think, might not an impediment to your healing but rather a requirement for your healing. Children in situations like yours never have a chance to feel and acknowledge their very normal and understandable anger, nor do they have a chance for an adult to respond maturely to their anger or contextualize it, which is a caretaker's duty.
Acknowledging and permitting yourself to be angry might be an important part of this process, but I suspect it will be better to do this with someone who can help you process the old feelings, i.e., a therapist.
With that said, I would venture to guess that going through this with a therapist who isn't solely focused on CBT might make a big, big difference. When it comes to recovering from childhood trauma, I feel like CBT often tries to treat the present-day symptoms without ever touching the underlying cause. For me, it even made things worse sometimes: I knew for the millionth time that I was holding on to botttled-up anger as a result of my childhood, but knowing it was there and still being unable to access it via CBT treatment was enormously frustrating. Eventually, it turned into one more cudgel that I used to beat myself up with. A different treatment modality might be much more helpful.
posted by cubeb at 5:55 PM on September 12, 2021 [4 favorites]
Anger, I think, might not an impediment to your healing but rather a requirement for your healing. Children in situations like yours never have a chance to feel and acknowledge their very normal and understandable anger, nor do they have a chance for an adult to respond maturely to their anger or contextualize it, which is a caretaker's duty.
Acknowledging and permitting yourself to be angry might be an important part of this process, but I suspect it will be better to do this with someone who can help you process the old feelings, i.e., a therapist.
With that said, I would venture to guess that going through this with a therapist who isn't solely focused on CBT might make a big, big difference. When it comes to recovering from childhood trauma, I feel like CBT often tries to treat the present-day symptoms without ever touching the underlying cause. For me, it even made things worse sometimes: I knew for the millionth time that I was holding on to botttled-up anger as a result of my childhood, but knowing it was there and still being unable to access it via CBT treatment was enormously frustrating. Eventually, it turned into one more cudgel that I used to beat myself up with. A different treatment modality might be much more helpful.
posted by cubeb at 5:55 PM on September 12, 2021 [4 favorites]
This isn’t going to be the answer that you want but how do you expect to get over the damage that your parents cause when you keep delving back into it? For me, anyway, as long as I had contact with them, the damage kept happening and I could never heal. Unfortunately the only thing that worked was cutting contact. I won’t say it solved everything, the scars are still there but my mental health was dramatically improved once I was out of reach of their emotional abuse. I’m so sorry, I know how hard this is.
posted by Jubey at 6:14 PM on September 12, 2021 [8 favorites]
posted by Jubey at 6:14 PM on September 12, 2021 [8 favorites]
+1000000 to twelve cent archie’s answer. For me it was about giving me space to feel my feelings. Once I did, the world went from black & white to color. I experienced joy again. But it took a long time to learn what “feeling my feelings” meant, what was healthy and appropriate (without just repressing everything “to be safe”), who was safe and how to tell if a person was safe to share feelings with.
There’s certainly no problem with cutting people out but I think for people like me, just cutting someone out isn’t enough and you can achieve an even better outcome by respecting your feelings without cutting people out. You may need more distance from them (emotional or physical), though.
I’m not sure what type of therapy my current, very effective therapist does but I think it’s family systems therapy. I’ll try to remember to ask her next time so I can share with you.
posted by stoneandstar at 6:24 PM on September 12, 2021 [10 favorites]
There’s certainly no problem with cutting people out but I think for people like me, just cutting someone out isn’t enough and you can achieve an even better outcome by respecting your feelings without cutting people out. You may need more distance from them (emotional or physical), though.
I’m not sure what type of therapy my current, very effective therapist does but I think it’s family systems therapy. I’ll try to remember to ask her next time so I can share with you.
posted by stoneandstar at 6:24 PM on September 12, 2021 [10 favorites]
> Would it be easier if I just accepted that it is what it is, this was my draw and I’ll have to limp through life mostly unhappy?
I don't feel qualified to give you advice on your situation in general, but I just wanted to say these sound to me like the kind of thoughts I have when I'm feeling depressed -- emotional phrases like "this was my draw" and "limp through life" catastrophize the situation and make it feel hopeless. If I noticed my own thoughts turning in this direction, it would be a sign to interrogate them a little further.
It may be that some part of you knows that it's the opposite, that accepting your situation is the way out, but it doesn't actually want you to leave. So it convinces you that acceptance will lead to unhappiness by imagining catastrophic situations that on reflection are a bit ridiculous and definitely not guaranteed to happen.
posted by panic at 6:31 PM on September 12, 2021 [2 favorites]
I don't feel qualified to give you advice on your situation in general, but I just wanted to say these sound to me like the kind of thoughts I have when I'm feeling depressed -- emotional phrases like "this was my draw" and "limp through life" catastrophize the situation and make it feel hopeless. If I noticed my own thoughts turning in this direction, it would be a sign to interrogate them a little further.
It may be that some part of you knows that it's the opposite, that accepting your situation is the way out, but it doesn't actually want you to leave. So it convinces you that acceptance will lead to unhappiness by imagining catastrophic situations that on reflection are a bit ridiculous and definitely not guaranteed to happen.
posted by panic at 6:31 PM on September 12, 2021 [2 favorites]
David Richo’s books are really good for this stuff. He talks about this healing work being the job we must do to become adults. I’ve read How to be an Adult in Relationships and How to be an Adult in Love and strongly recommend both.
posted by guzzalina at 6:54 PM on September 12, 2021 [3 favorites]
posted by guzzalina at 6:54 PM on September 12, 2021 [3 favorites]
Best answer: A couple of things from someone in a similar situation:
Find power in something you do every day to build fortitude and strength. For me it was starting weightlifting (nothing flash, I’m never gonna be ripped) which does a good thing to your brain. For a start, every time you add a little weight to your regimen, you get a sense of ‘oh hey, I’m getting stronger and it’s just me doing the lifting of things I choose to lift!’ Weightlifting also means standing in front of a mirror and watching yourself do the lifts properly. Again, I’m not saying do crazy lifts, just basics and watch your technique. Get into the space of watching yourself do things purely by your own volition and strength. It’s just you and your relationship with you. I have found it has given me something to speak back to the feeling of being impinged upon, having my self esteem dictated by others.
Starting a form of art practice or expressive practice. Mine was going back to life drawing lessons and being present in the experience of watching, learning and developing something that no one can take from me, and for which there is no competition with others. Like weightlifting, it’s about doing something that is under your own steam, something for which you aim to get no recognition except your own awareness of internal acceptance.
Walking and being in nature. For me with my fur family and being with their needs.
These seem trite, but for me it’s a way of doing things in my life under my own steam.
Yes, there are times where I am walking in tears under the weight of memories or new injuries, that is a reality of being where we are: freighted with a childhood that hangs over our adulthood. Sometimes the mirror and the weights are too confronting - it’s too hard to look at myself and not hear the internalised sense of uselessness I inherited from an abusive natal family dynamic. But gradually the added weights I can lift do some internal work on my self belief.
About your family dynamic and how to manage how hard it is hard to separate: The way I have experienced going no contact with my father (mother has died many years ago) is to weigh up the two paths I could choose. One is new enactments for the rest of my life that will pile on and re ignite distress and wounds. One is no new enactments but a self imposed orphaning, terrible feelings of abandonment etc. Both paths are fraught, both are hard, but one stops the enactments piling up, stops the new ways these people can get their knives into my core. Time passing helps to alleviate the ‘orphaned’ feelings of choosing the second path.
And something else I have realised only recently: narcissists are super jealous people. I’ve only recently realised that my parents always wanted to take away anything in my life that gave me power or showed skill and brilliance. When you see this being enacted more clearly, you don’t get drawn into despair. Mine was digs at my career, my interest in art or literature, or the way I looked or what I liked doing such as travel. They’ll always want to bring you down because they’re simply jealous fucks.
You see their favouritism of your sibling. This is a common thing, I have it too. But the child who seems to be favoured in your presence is in a dynamic as equally unhealthy as yours. They may have different awareness and use different coping mechanisms, but be aware that they are feeling all those feelings you are. Maybe there’s less outward displays of hurt for you to recognise, but the feelings of loneliness, lack of attachment, a core of emptiness etc is there. Some people are more in touch with those feelings, some are not accessing those feelings. But they are there. Try not to feel jealous of your sibling, it’s a trek I know since I have grappled with this dynamic too. Don’t let your parents take away your sibling, the only other person intimately acquainted with the specific dysfunctions of your natal home. My sister and I have been able to forge an honesty about this, even as she is favoured. She knows (now at 50) that it’s all bullshit.
(Sorry this is long!)
Another very important thing is that in one’s thirties, the body of an abused person starts to tell its neglected truth. Be attuned to your body, get check ups, pay attention to what you eat and consume in your life. People in our situation often start to present with chronic pain. I was diagnosed with extremely severe endometriosis and was crippled with it. Not everyone with chronic and acute pain was neglected, but the ACE factors of some childhoods are mapped extensively against such illnesses. Take care of you.
posted by honey-barbara at 7:19 PM on September 12, 2021 [23 favorites]
Find power in something you do every day to build fortitude and strength. For me it was starting weightlifting (nothing flash, I’m never gonna be ripped) which does a good thing to your brain. For a start, every time you add a little weight to your regimen, you get a sense of ‘oh hey, I’m getting stronger and it’s just me doing the lifting of things I choose to lift!’ Weightlifting also means standing in front of a mirror and watching yourself do the lifts properly. Again, I’m not saying do crazy lifts, just basics and watch your technique. Get into the space of watching yourself do things purely by your own volition and strength. It’s just you and your relationship with you. I have found it has given me something to speak back to the feeling of being impinged upon, having my self esteem dictated by others.
Starting a form of art practice or expressive practice. Mine was going back to life drawing lessons and being present in the experience of watching, learning and developing something that no one can take from me, and for which there is no competition with others. Like weightlifting, it’s about doing something that is under your own steam, something for which you aim to get no recognition except your own awareness of internal acceptance.
Walking and being in nature. For me with my fur family and being with their needs.
These seem trite, but for me it’s a way of doing things in my life under my own steam.
Yes, there are times where I am walking in tears under the weight of memories or new injuries, that is a reality of being where we are: freighted with a childhood that hangs over our adulthood. Sometimes the mirror and the weights are too confronting - it’s too hard to look at myself and not hear the internalised sense of uselessness I inherited from an abusive natal family dynamic. But gradually the added weights I can lift do some internal work on my self belief.
About your family dynamic and how to manage how hard it is hard to separate: The way I have experienced going no contact with my father (mother has died many years ago) is to weigh up the two paths I could choose. One is new enactments for the rest of my life that will pile on and re ignite distress and wounds. One is no new enactments but a self imposed orphaning, terrible feelings of abandonment etc. Both paths are fraught, both are hard, but one stops the enactments piling up, stops the new ways these people can get their knives into my core. Time passing helps to alleviate the ‘orphaned’ feelings of choosing the second path.
And something else I have realised only recently: narcissists are super jealous people. I’ve only recently realised that my parents always wanted to take away anything in my life that gave me power or showed skill and brilliance. When you see this being enacted more clearly, you don’t get drawn into despair. Mine was digs at my career, my interest in art or literature, or the way I looked or what I liked doing such as travel. They’ll always want to bring you down because they’re simply jealous fucks.
You see their favouritism of your sibling. This is a common thing, I have it too. But the child who seems to be favoured in your presence is in a dynamic as equally unhealthy as yours. They may have different awareness and use different coping mechanisms, but be aware that they are feeling all those feelings you are. Maybe there’s less outward displays of hurt for you to recognise, but the feelings of loneliness, lack of attachment, a core of emptiness etc is there. Some people are more in touch with those feelings, some are not accessing those feelings. But they are there. Try not to feel jealous of your sibling, it’s a trek I know since I have grappled with this dynamic too. Don’t let your parents take away your sibling, the only other person intimately acquainted with the specific dysfunctions of your natal home. My sister and I have been able to forge an honesty about this, even as she is favoured. She knows (now at 50) that it’s all bullshit.
(Sorry this is long!)
Another very important thing is that in one’s thirties, the body of an abused person starts to tell its neglected truth. Be attuned to your body, get check ups, pay attention to what you eat and consume in your life. People in our situation often start to present with chronic pain. I was diagnosed with extremely severe endometriosis and was crippled with it. Not everyone with chronic and acute pain was neglected, but the ACE factors of some childhoods are mapped extensively against such illnesses. Take care of you.
posted by honey-barbara at 7:19 PM on September 12, 2021 [23 favorites]
"Is there anything someone can actually do to undo the damage of 18+ years batshit, bad parenting?"
No. There is nothing anyone can do to undo this! Your childhood is your childhood; your parents are your parents; they are what they are, and they can't be undone.
You have choices about how you move forward; you have choices about how you understand your childhood. But those choices don't undo what you experienced as a child. All of that is real, and your feelings today about it are real! The shit you went through was hard, yo!, and it can't be easily dismissed!
Without suggesting you accept your parents' bad parenting as "normal" or "fine," I would say that a lot of people are helped by coming to understand that most parents are a) simply struggling to get through the day and b) don't have a ton of emotional tools to be good parents. Most parents are simply dropped into the thing, with jobs and lives and emotional trauma, and they try to do the thing as best they know how, which may be very crappy. It's normal to want to understand your parents as good parents, but it can help a lot to understand, "They weren't actually prepared for children" or "Their jobs were too demanding" or "They were kinda fucked up, and not really prepared to deal with other people's emotional needs" or "They did a pretty good job, but really struggled with X issue." It's hard for children to say that about their parents! But it's 100% normal and (IMO) necessary to come to understand your parents as human beings who failed at stuff. Some parents fail a little bit; some parents fail AT ALL THE THINGS. But all parents fail sometimes, and all children have to come to understand that about their parents.
I want to emphasize that coming to terms with this does not mean accepting anything your parents did as okay. It just means coming to understand your parents a human people with human failings who fucked up in specific, very human ways. And that might mean they fucked up in EVERY POSSIBLE WAY! Or it might mean they fucked up in a few, but very important, ways. But understanding your parents as human beings with human failings removes a lot of the mystical and god-like power that humans naturally assign their parents. "Okay, well, they were just people," can be a really important first step in coming to terms with the ways they failed you.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:44 PM on September 12, 2021 [11 favorites]
No. There is nothing anyone can do to undo this! Your childhood is your childhood; your parents are your parents; they are what they are, and they can't be undone.
You have choices about how you move forward; you have choices about how you understand your childhood. But those choices don't undo what you experienced as a child. All of that is real, and your feelings today about it are real! The shit you went through was hard, yo!, and it can't be easily dismissed!
Without suggesting you accept your parents' bad parenting as "normal" or "fine," I would say that a lot of people are helped by coming to understand that most parents are a) simply struggling to get through the day and b) don't have a ton of emotional tools to be good parents. Most parents are simply dropped into the thing, with jobs and lives and emotional trauma, and they try to do the thing as best they know how, which may be very crappy. It's normal to want to understand your parents as good parents, but it can help a lot to understand, "They weren't actually prepared for children" or "Their jobs were too demanding" or "They were kinda fucked up, and not really prepared to deal with other people's emotional needs" or "They did a pretty good job, but really struggled with X issue." It's hard for children to say that about their parents! But it's 100% normal and (IMO) necessary to come to understand your parents as human beings who failed at stuff. Some parents fail a little bit; some parents fail AT ALL THE THINGS. But all parents fail sometimes, and all children have to come to understand that about their parents.
I want to emphasize that coming to terms with this does not mean accepting anything your parents did as okay. It just means coming to understand your parents a human people with human failings who fucked up in specific, very human ways. And that might mean they fucked up in EVERY POSSIBLE WAY! Or it might mean they fucked up in a few, but very important, ways. But understanding your parents as human beings with human failings removes a lot of the mystical and god-like power that humans naturally assign their parents. "Okay, well, they were just people," can be a really important first step in coming to terms with the ways they failed you.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:44 PM on September 12, 2021 [11 favorites]
I only started healing from my childhood when I finally acknowledged that my parents were abusive, and they had no interest in changing their relationship with me, so I decided to end contact. It’s been more than a decade now and my inner child is healthier and happier every year.
posted by farkleberry at 8:44 PM on September 12, 2021 [9 favorites]
posted by farkleberry at 8:44 PM on September 12, 2021 [9 favorites]
I have two book recs; hopefully this isn't redundant with what you've already read
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents
Complex PTSD: from surviving to thriving
They haven't cured me, but both offered life changing amounts of insight. The second book linked goes into detail on what to do with the free floating rage.
You might also be interested in the answers to a question I asked about overcoming a traumatic childhood: https://ask.metafilter.com/355179/How-to-recover-from-bad-childhood
posted by ThreeSocksToTheWind at 9:05 PM on September 12, 2021 [8 favorites]
Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents
Complex PTSD: from surviving to thriving
They haven't cured me, but both offered life changing amounts of insight. The second book linked goes into detail on what to do with the free floating rage.
You might also be interested in the answers to a question I asked about overcoming a traumatic childhood: https://ask.metafilter.com/355179/How-to-recover-from-bad-childhood
posted by ThreeSocksToTheWind at 9:05 PM on September 12, 2021 [8 favorites]
I feel like the relationship with them is a perpetual trauma. But I can’t cut contact and not have a family at all, no contact is simply not an option for me at this stage.
A thought experiment. Imagine this a romantic relationship. Would you say, "I feel like the relationship with them is a perpetual trauma. But I can't cut contact and not have a boyfriend at all, no contact is simply not an option for me at this stage."
I'm no contact 4 years with my mother now, and resisted it every step of the way until her abuse escalated into physical violence with my child present. When things finally got bad enough to make that choice, I realized that being in contact with someone who was actively abusing me required constant self-gaslighting, self-abuse and denial. I had trained myself to ignore every instinct that told me I wasn't safe.
But swallowing poison willingly still poisons you.
Since going no contact, I got my ADHD treated, came into a trans identity, and got EMDR. I can't tell you the last time I had a panic attack, and my life is, generally, calmer and happier than I ever could have imagine. I'm successful professionally. I have good, supportive friendships, I no longer worry about my spouse leaving me. I'm just better.
Know that no one goes into no contact wanting it. But I honestly don't think I would have this clarity or peace of mind with my mother still in my life.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 10:02 PM on September 12, 2021 [12 favorites]
A thought experiment. Imagine this a romantic relationship. Would you say, "I feel like the relationship with them is a perpetual trauma. But I can't cut contact and not have a boyfriend at all, no contact is simply not an option for me at this stage."
I'm no contact 4 years with my mother now, and resisted it every step of the way until her abuse escalated into physical violence with my child present. When things finally got bad enough to make that choice, I realized that being in contact with someone who was actively abusing me required constant self-gaslighting, self-abuse and denial. I had trained myself to ignore every instinct that told me I wasn't safe.
But swallowing poison willingly still poisons you.
Since going no contact, I got my ADHD treated, came into a trans identity, and got EMDR. I can't tell you the last time I had a panic attack, and my life is, generally, calmer and happier than I ever could have imagine. I'm successful professionally. I have good, supportive friendships, I no longer worry about my spouse leaving me. I'm just better.
Know that no one goes into no contact wanting it. But I honestly don't think I would have this clarity or peace of mind with my mother still in my life.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 10:02 PM on September 12, 2021 [12 favorites]
I'm going to second what ThreeSocksToTheWind said and strongly recommend Complex PTSD : From Surviving to Thriving
posted by LansLeFleur at 11:44 PM on September 12, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by LansLeFleur at 11:44 PM on September 12, 2021 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Wanting to come in that yes, this can change. I come from a very abusive family, the details aren't really relevant here so just believe me on this, and I feel okay in the world. I feel connected to my partner. I feel safe and comfortable most of the time. It's not perfect, and I have moments of doubt and insecurity and anxiety. I hate authority and dealing with my boss... it is some excercise in reminding myself that my present is not my past over and over, but it is entirely manageable, and not too overwhelming.
Therapy has been key for me, honestly.
In therapy one of the more useful things I've done is when the past is influencing my present moment is write out the past feelings THEN write responses to myself where I do a couple things 1) aknowedge the past concern , 2)aknowedge the past feelings 3) recognize how the present situation is different and 4) offer support and comfort to myself.
This helps me breakdown how my past feelings are influencing my current situation, helps me affirm all that shit which was never affirmed in the first place, helps me articulate how I've built a life for myself that's different and can have different feelings, then provide myself some comfort which I deserved when I was a kid. It helps me have room to experience current emotions for what they are and part emotions for what they are. I also reassure myself that the past and the present are different and some of my fears are irrational, even when loud, and big.
My strong reactions are much quieter now. My fear significantly less. I don't feel angry and I feel happy and connected to the world. It's really neat.
Not everyone's journey is the same, and this is hard stuff to untangle. You can do it though.
Take gentle care
posted by AlexiaSky at 1:10 AM on September 13, 2021 [4 favorites]
Therapy has been key for me, honestly.
In therapy one of the more useful things I've done is when the past is influencing my present moment is write out the past feelings THEN write responses to myself where I do a couple things 1) aknowedge the past concern , 2)aknowedge the past feelings 3) recognize how the present situation is different and 4) offer support and comfort to myself.
This helps me breakdown how my past feelings are influencing my current situation, helps me affirm all that shit which was never affirmed in the first place, helps me articulate how I've built a life for myself that's different and can have different feelings, then provide myself some comfort which I deserved when I was a kid. It helps me have room to experience current emotions for what they are and part emotions for what they are. I also reassure myself that the past and the present are different and some of my fears are irrational, even when loud, and big.
My strong reactions are much quieter now. My fear significantly less. I don't feel angry and I feel happy and connected to the world. It's really neat.
Not everyone's journey is the same, and this is hard stuff to untangle. You can do it though.
Take gentle care
posted by AlexiaSky at 1:10 AM on September 13, 2021 [4 favorites]
Can't really read this all right now because of my own issues but agree with twelve cents archie that you need to feel ALL the feelings. I'm reading The Tao of Fully Feeling by Peter Walker and it's so good for me I started again from the start when I got to the end.
posted by london explorer girl at 3:29 AM on September 13, 2021 [5 favorites]
posted by london explorer girl at 3:29 AM on September 13, 2021 [5 favorites]
I also struggle with complex trauma from a narcissistic family + other adult figures in my life. And it really is so hard to deal with, especially that intense grief of not having the childhood I deserved, that every child has the right to—safe, loving, connected. That was stolen from us, and it's awful. I'm really sorry you're in this place too.
But it's not futile to fight for a better life. Trauma victims, we've suffered enough, and we deserve a life that isn't just "limping along" or constantly disrupted by intense trauma symptoms. I'm still in the thick of recovery myself—and on some level, I always will be—but I can say that there is hope of learning to integrate the loss and trauma of an awful childhood and learning to be a full person, wounds and all. Grief and trauma and joy can, and do, coexist; it's just a complicated path to get there.
Things that have personally helped me are, firstly, finding a trauma-focused therapist. CBT doesn't work for everyone, so if you found that it was a modality that didn't resonate for you, that's okay! It didn't really work for me either, at least not right now. You can try other modalities that might be a better fit. I found a therapist who uses a blend of different modalities (parts-work, EMDR, person-centered), but her main focus is on helping me learn how to process and feel the grief and traumatic memories in a gradual and safe way, and to have a more compassionate relationship with my emotions and inner, wounded child.
I've been with her for about 2 years, and feel so much more alive and real, so much more like a person. I'm still working on it, I still have a lot of symptoms and trauma to work with, but I never imagined I could reach a place of more integration of the trauma and reconnection to myself. It's not easy to find a good therapist (I went through 4 before her), and it can be deeply disheartening when it doesn't work, so I completely get it if it's an avenue you feel burned out on, but I would recommend keeping it as a potential option, at least.
I also have a few book recommendations. I liked Pete Walker's book, especially his explanation of emotional flashbacks and grief—that illuminated so much for me, and was so helpful (he has a website too that explains emotional flashbacks, if you wanna start there). I didn't necessarily agree with all of his thoughts, especially on anger and on how to deal with the inner critic (I feel like he doesn't really have a nuanced, compassionate take on anger, and that yelling back at my inner critic is unproductive—having compassion and dialogue with it has worked much better for me. YMMV!)
For my anger, I know reddit is kind of a terrible website overall, but it does have a few good trauma communities. I found a lot of validation in the subreddits /r/CPTSDFightMode, /r/CPTSD and in /r/CPTSDNextSteps. Feelings, anger included, are not something to be eliminated, but to be felt and processed. It's not easy to learn how to do that, but it is a skill that can be learned, and your quality of life can improve because of that.
I also found a lot of insight and hope in Judith Herman's book "Trauma and Recovery". Warning—it details people's abuse and case studies, and can get pretty heavy, but she's an expert in trauma and the stages of recovery (establishing safety, rememberance and mourning, and reconnection) and really shows that people can live full, rich lives even after intense terror and abuse. It's a little academic, too, and I like that sort of thing but not everyone does, so. Just a couple grains of salt for that one.
Apologies for the long comment, but I'm pretty passionate about this! I know it feels impossible right now, and a few years ago, I thought I'd never feel better either, but with the support of online communities, books, and a trauma-informed, non-CBT therapist, I'm making progress. I'm becoming more myself. I'm learning the skills my parents never taught me, and I have hope that I can have a decent future. Trauma and what my parents did to me will always be part of my life, but it can be a processed, integrated, non-disruptive part; part of the story but not the whole story. Wishing you all the best.
posted by Anonymous at 4:12 AM on September 13, 2021
But it's not futile to fight for a better life. Trauma victims, we've suffered enough, and we deserve a life that isn't just "limping along" or constantly disrupted by intense trauma symptoms. I'm still in the thick of recovery myself—and on some level, I always will be—but I can say that there is hope of learning to integrate the loss and trauma of an awful childhood and learning to be a full person, wounds and all. Grief and trauma and joy can, and do, coexist; it's just a complicated path to get there.
Things that have personally helped me are, firstly, finding a trauma-focused therapist. CBT doesn't work for everyone, so if you found that it was a modality that didn't resonate for you, that's okay! It didn't really work for me either, at least not right now. You can try other modalities that might be a better fit. I found a therapist who uses a blend of different modalities (parts-work, EMDR, person-centered), but her main focus is on helping me learn how to process and feel the grief and traumatic memories in a gradual and safe way, and to have a more compassionate relationship with my emotions and inner, wounded child.
I've been with her for about 2 years, and feel so much more alive and real, so much more like a person. I'm still working on it, I still have a lot of symptoms and trauma to work with, but I never imagined I could reach a place of more integration of the trauma and reconnection to myself. It's not easy to find a good therapist (I went through 4 before her), and it can be deeply disheartening when it doesn't work, so I completely get it if it's an avenue you feel burned out on, but I would recommend keeping it as a potential option, at least.
I also have a few book recommendations. I liked Pete Walker's book, especially his explanation of emotional flashbacks and grief—that illuminated so much for me, and was so helpful (he has a website too that explains emotional flashbacks, if you wanna start there). I didn't necessarily agree with all of his thoughts, especially on anger and on how to deal with the inner critic (I feel like he doesn't really have a nuanced, compassionate take on anger, and that yelling back at my inner critic is unproductive—having compassion and dialogue with it has worked much better for me. YMMV!)
For my anger, I know reddit is kind of a terrible website overall, but it does have a few good trauma communities. I found a lot of validation in the subreddits /r/CPTSDFightMode, /r/CPTSD and in /r/CPTSDNextSteps. Feelings, anger included, are not something to be eliminated, but to be felt and processed. It's not easy to learn how to do that, but it is a skill that can be learned, and your quality of life can improve because of that.
I also found a lot of insight and hope in Judith Herman's book "Trauma and Recovery". Warning—it details people's abuse and case studies, and can get pretty heavy, but she's an expert in trauma and the stages of recovery (establishing safety, rememberance and mourning, and reconnection) and really shows that people can live full, rich lives even after intense terror and abuse. It's a little academic, too, and I like that sort of thing but not everyone does, so. Just a couple grains of salt for that one.
Apologies for the long comment, but I'm pretty passionate about this! I know it feels impossible right now, and a few years ago, I thought I'd never feel better either, but with the support of online communities, books, and a trauma-informed, non-CBT therapist, I'm making progress. I'm becoming more myself. I'm learning the skills my parents never taught me, and I have hope that I can have a decent future. Trauma and what my parents did to me will always be part of my life, but it can be a processed, integrated, non-disruptive part; part of the story but not the whole story. Wishing you all the best.
posted by Anonymous at 4:12 AM on September 13, 2021
Same situation, a long time ago. Two things have helped immensely. One was to move as far away from my parents as possible, This did not mean no contact, but it did mean that distance kept me away from the ongoing drama and allowed me to heal.
Somehow without therapy, I began to recognize childhood patterns showing up in everyday situations that didn't require a childish response. I have almost made the transition to adult in late middle age. It's wonderful.
Despite my doubts, fears, and insecurities, my great partner had not left me and we are still moving forward after multiple decades of commitment.
posted by Xurando at 6:08 AM on September 13, 2021 [3 favorites]
Somehow without therapy, I began to recognize childhood patterns showing up in everyday situations that didn't require a childish response. I have almost made the transition to adult in late middle age. It's wonderful.
Despite my doubts, fears, and insecurities, my great partner had not left me and we are still moving forward after multiple decades of commitment.
posted by Xurando at 6:08 AM on September 13, 2021 [3 favorites]
Can you say more about why you can't cut contact? Is it for emotional reasons, because of some logistical/financial/practical need they fill, or for some other reason? Understanding what it is you need from them that you're actually getting might help us give you better answers about how to get that thing without constantly re-traumatizing yourself.
posted by decathecting at 6:27 AM on September 13, 2021 [1 favorite]
posted by decathecting at 6:27 AM on September 13, 2021 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: I want to thank everyone for their thoughtful answers, this community is comprised by some amazingly empathic and insightful folks.
I also wanted to give more clarity on my stance on no contact because as decathecting said, it will be relevant to the answers people give. Cutting contact would create some extensive fall out with extended family, including in-laws and would basically end up isolating me from people I do want to keep in my life. The consequences of it would be grave enough for me where it would really not make worth whatever benefit may come from no contact, plus it would affect some financial inheritance things that I’d rather not mess with.
posted by Riverside at 6:49 AM on September 13, 2021 [1 favorite]
I also wanted to give more clarity on my stance on no contact because as decathecting said, it will be relevant to the answers people give. Cutting contact would create some extensive fall out with extended family, including in-laws and would basically end up isolating me from people I do want to keep in my life. The consequences of it would be grave enough for me where it would really not make worth whatever benefit may come from no contact, plus it would affect some financial inheritance things that I’d rather not mess with.
posted by Riverside at 6:49 AM on September 13, 2021 [1 favorite]
The consequences of it would be grave enough for me where it would really not make worth whatever benefit may come from no contact, plus it would affect some financial inheritance things that I’d rather not mess with.
You might find good advice on reddit's /r/raisedbynarcissists. They can help you navigate things like gray rock or very low contact. Gray rock didn't work for me (it made my mother ramp up abusive behaviors) but it may help you.
Keep in mind that narcissists can and will use inheritance/money as a way to control and manipulate the targets of their abuse, and there's a good chance they will write you out of their wills without you even knowing it without your going no contact at all (ask me how I know). Do whatever you can to create a life where you're not dependent on their money. Keep in mind that they might encourage behaviors where dependence is necessary, because they want to control you. Don't tell them you're becoming more financially independent, but I'd work on making it so that if you, or they, cut ties, it won't have a major impact on your continued financial survival.
This kind of abuse really impacts you in multiple ways and the voice inside you telling you that you will not survive if you ever stop talking to them is an internalized voice of their abuse. It's not your voice, and it's not true. I actually gained supportive relatives after going no contact with my mother, and I'm in much better financial shape now than I was 4 years ago. None of that is to say that you must go no contact, but maintaining an unchanged relationship where they're continuing to abuse you is going to make it very difficult to heal from the abuse. A scab can't heal if you keep letting someone pick at it.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 7:48 AM on September 13, 2021 [13 favorites]
You might find good advice on reddit's /r/raisedbynarcissists. They can help you navigate things like gray rock or very low contact. Gray rock didn't work for me (it made my mother ramp up abusive behaviors) but it may help you.
Keep in mind that narcissists can and will use inheritance/money as a way to control and manipulate the targets of their abuse, and there's a good chance they will write you out of their wills without you even knowing it without your going no contact at all (ask me how I know). Do whatever you can to create a life where you're not dependent on their money. Keep in mind that they might encourage behaviors where dependence is necessary, because they want to control you. Don't tell them you're becoming more financially independent, but I'd work on making it so that if you, or they, cut ties, it won't have a major impact on your continued financial survival.
This kind of abuse really impacts you in multiple ways and the voice inside you telling you that you will not survive if you ever stop talking to them is an internalized voice of their abuse. It's not your voice, and it's not true. I actually gained supportive relatives after going no contact with my mother, and I'm in much better financial shape now than I was 4 years ago. None of that is to say that you must go no contact, but maintaining an unchanged relationship where they're continuing to abuse you is going to make it very difficult to heal from the abuse. A scab can't heal if you keep letting someone pick at it.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 7:48 AM on September 13, 2021 [13 favorites]
You can change how you interact with and set boundaries with your parents without cutting them off entirely. I would also second recommendations for Family Systems therapy (internal or Bowen) as well as CPTSD or trauma therapy to help you connect with your emotions again.
Seconding my favourite books of Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents I'd like to add on another favourite: the Boundaries books by Anne Katherine. Boundaries by Cloud and Townsend is relevant for people who want to keep those in their life.
Captain Awkward in particular has a lot about setting boundaries and even one about setting boundaries with your parents. It DOES mean that they (and any strong supporters) won't necessarily be privy to all the information in your life, but no one needs to be. You don't have to tell everyone everything.
You may also find help with the Personal Development School since Thais tends to talk about how we can change our relationships with others. Her recent video talks about childhood trauma.
posted by Ms. Moonlight at 9:40 AM on September 13, 2021 [1 favorite]
Seconding my favourite books of Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents I'd like to add on another favourite: the Boundaries books by Anne Katherine. Boundaries by Cloud and Townsend is relevant for people who want to keep those in their life.
Captain Awkward in particular has a lot about setting boundaries and even one about setting boundaries with your parents. It DOES mean that they (and any strong supporters) won't necessarily be privy to all the information in your life, but no one needs to be. You don't have to tell everyone everything.
You may also find help with the Personal Development School since Thais tends to talk about how we can change our relationships with others. Her recent video talks about childhood trauma.
posted by Ms. Moonlight at 9:40 AM on September 13, 2021 [1 favorite]
The perpetual sense of gray and overshadowing kind of sounds like depression. Would you be open to being evaluated for that if you haven't already? If you have untreated depression (or some other affective disorder), it makes all the work you're doing even harder.
Another out of the box idea might be deep brain stimulation or PTSD-focused theraputic microdosing.
But I would only progress to more dramatic stuff if taking a break from your parents (6 months?), therapy, and medication had all been exhausted.
As someone who needed years of therapy to deal with way more mildly narcissistic parents (I was the golden child) I think it can be done but it's going to take more than 9 months of not gelling with therapists. I know you can feel better. Please don't give up.
posted by *s at 1:26 PM on September 13, 2021 [1 favorite]
Another out of the box idea might be deep brain stimulation or PTSD-focused theraputic microdosing.
But I would only progress to more dramatic stuff if taking a break from your parents (6 months?), therapy, and medication had all been exhausted.
As someone who needed years of therapy to deal with way more mildly narcissistic parents (I was the golden child) I think it can be done but it's going to take more than 9 months of not gelling with therapists. I know you can feel better. Please don't give up.
posted by *s at 1:26 PM on September 13, 2021 [1 favorite]
I could have written your question myself a few years ago. I have now gone no-contact, but for a long time was muddling through with a limited-contact, limited-engagement approach. Successful strategies included: only being available to talk when I chose to (eg not just answering the phone whenever they called), steering conversations into “safe” topics (ie nothing personal), never asking for advice or telling them about plans, only telling them about things that had already happened and preferably that I didn’t care about that much), etc. Basically, I tried to never give them an opening to say something that would be hurtful, either through their disapproval or disinterest.
But, like you, it definitely wore on me. It felt like re-traumatizing myself every time we spoke because I spent the entire call on edge and on active defense. Even when the conversations went “well,” they still left me feeling drained and and bad about myself. The biggest thing that helped was just… talking to and seeing them less. In the three years before I finally went no-contact, I spoke with them only a few times a year and didn’t see them in person at all. I also worked with a therapist for many, many years to get to this point, who spent years unpacking my childhood with me before even attempting to get me to look at changing our current relationship. It’s a stressful process to find someone with a personality and modality that works for you, but for me it was the single best choice I have ever made in my life.
Everyone has to contend with this journey in their own way, and if the pains of not being in contact still outweigh the pains of contact, that is understandable. But I do agree with you that the pain and depression you are experiencing is not solely the pain of a bad childhood: it is the pain of bad current relationships. Part of why your pain is ongoing is because the trauma is ongoing. You can’t heal a wound that is being constantly cut open.
I wish I had more advice beyond slowly cutting back contact, but maybe framing it in this way—as reducing an active harm, rather than “recovery” from past events—might help you find additional resources. I hope you can take care with yourself; I know exactly how agonizing this situation is, and I’m sorry.
posted by CtrlAltDelete at 3:00 PM on September 13, 2021 [6 favorites]
But, like you, it definitely wore on me. It felt like re-traumatizing myself every time we spoke because I spent the entire call on edge and on active defense. Even when the conversations went “well,” they still left me feeling drained and and bad about myself. The biggest thing that helped was just… talking to and seeing them less. In the three years before I finally went no-contact, I spoke with them only a few times a year and didn’t see them in person at all. I also worked with a therapist for many, many years to get to this point, who spent years unpacking my childhood with me before even attempting to get me to look at changing our current relationship. It’s a stressful process to find someone with a personality and modality that works for you, but for me it was the single best choice I have ever made in my life.
Everyone has to contend with this journey in their own way, and if the pains of not being in contact still outweigh the pains of contact, that is understandable. But I do agree with you that the pain and depression you are experiencing is not solely the pain of a bad childhood: it is the pain of bad current relationships. Part of why your pain is ongoing is because the trauma is ongoing. You can’t heal a wound that is being constantly cut open.
I wish I had more advice beyond slowly cutting back contact, but maybe framing it in this way—as reducing an active harm, rather than “recovery” from past events—might help you find additional resources. I hope you can take care with yourself; I know exactly how agonizing this situation is, and I’m sorry.
posted by CtrlAltDelete at 3:00 PM on September 13, 2021 [6 favorites]
What about family systems as an approach?
I cut ties with my mother and it was the best thing for me, so I can't say how to stay in that kind of relationship. Family Systems along with who knows what kind of therapy helped me see things differently, and it took the edge off (like, it was not personal against me, my mother just probably stopped developing emotionally at a young age, how she acts now is influenced by how her parents treated her after her own childhood trauma, etc). this was after many attempts at therapy over the years.
I think family systems also tries to help people see how they fit into a family dynamic. this sibling always responds like x, that one responds like y, then I do z. so stop responding like z. I'm not an expert at family systems, and it has been ages, so maybe I'm remembering it wrong, but that sort of approach might be helpful in staying in the relationships.
good luck!
posted by evening at 4:23 PM on September 13, 2021 [2 favorites]
I cut ties with my mother and it was the best thing for me, so I can't say how to stay in that kind of relationship. Family Systems along with who knows what kind of therapy helped me see things differently, and it took the edge off (like, it was not personal against me, my mother just probably stopped developing emotionally at a young age, how she acts now is influenced by how her parents treated her after her own childhood trauma, etc). this was after many attempts at therapy over the years.
I think family systems also tries to help people see how they fit into a family dynamic. this sibling always responds like x, that one responds like y, then I do z. so stop responding like z. I'm not an expert at family systems, and it has been ages, so maybe I'm remembering it wrong, but that sort of approach might be helpful in staying in the relationships.
good luck!
posted by evening at 4:23 PM on September 13, 2021 [2 favorites]
+1 to Internal Family Systems. You can do this effectively as self-therapy by using the booo or audiobook, but it’ll be richer and easier to handle with a therapist.
+1 to EMDR.
See about therapists that work with DBT rather than CBT. It’s about how to safely feel emotions and get your needs met appropriately. Setting boundaries.
posted by Miko at 7:25 PM on September 13, 2021 [1 favorite]
+1 to EMDR.
See about therapists that work with DBT rather than CBT. It’s about how to safely feel emotions and get your needs met appropriately. Setting boundaries.
posted by Miko at 7:25 PM on September 13, 2021 [1 favorite]
My therapist (trauma specialist) tried some CBT with me and it didn't help. In fact, it made things a little worse. We decided that it wasn't an approach that was going to give any benefits. I don't think she uses one particular modality, but different things as I was moving through different stages.
My mid 30 to early 40s were rough, including a couple of hospitalizations for depression/PTSD/psychotic symptoms. Having a therapist who understood and specialized in trauma was a key part of my treatment. But I also had a very good psychiatrist who was willing to work with me and some medication limitations I had. At the worst, I was on 4 antidepressants, a mood stabilizer, a sleep med and an antipsychotic (plus something for the side effects). That's been drastically reduced now that I'm doing better in my mid 40s.
I did not go no contact. In fact I live with my dad (who is my only living abuser left). I can't say I've forgiven him, but I understand better the generational aspects of abuse. That doesn't excuse what he did, but it did help put it in a different light for me. I can't say I love him, but I do appreciate what he does for me now.
I agree with some of the other posters who say your words sound a lot like depression talking. I probably said some of those things myself. If you haven't seen someone for possible medication, I encourage you to think about it.
posted by kathrynm at 7:29 PM on September 13, 2021 [1 favorite]
My mid 30 to early 40s were rough, including a couple of hospitalizations for depression/PTSD/psychotic symptoms. Having a therapist who understood and specialized in trauma was a key part of my treatment. But I also had a very good psychiatrist who was willing to work with me and some medication limitations I had. At the worst, I was on 4 antidepressants, a mood stabilizer, a sleep med and an antipsychotic (plus something for the side effects). That's been drastically reduced now that I'm doing better in my mid 40s.
I did not go no contact. In fact I live with my dad (who is my only living abuser left). I can't say I've forgiven him, but I understand better the generational aspects of abuse. That doesn't excuse what he did, but it did help put it in a different light for me. I can't say I love him, but I do appreciate what he does for me now.
I agree with some of the other posters who say your words sound a lot like depression talking. I probably said some of those things myself. If you haven't seen someone for possible medication, I encourage you to think about it.
posted by kathrynm at 7:29 PM on September 13, 2021 [1 favorite]
« Older Am I just out of luck? No List A or B documents... | What magifying tool have you found most useful for... Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.
I actually have zero contact and that has helped in the same way, I think, that cauterizing a wound might. It stopped the bleeding but it can't heal the wound. However, I don't not have a family. I simply do not have these people in my family.
posted by sm1tten at 5:40 PM on September 12, 2021 [11 favorites]