How to handle unvaccinated housemate/tenant?

August 23, 2021 8:02 PM

My partner (we'll call him Martin; we don't live together) just found out his housemate/tenant (Jasper) isn't vaccinated against Covid. This came up because they are looking for an additional person to move in, and a potential tenant asked about vaccination status. It's a large house and there are currently three of them; both my partner and the other housemate (Darrell) are vaccinated. My partner isn't sure how to handle this. I'm also not sure how to handle this. Can you help?

First off, we both agree that Martin should have asked Jasper directly about this before now, but Jasper had expressed enthusiasm about the vaccine at some point, so Martin didn't think to follow up. Jasper works in a public-facing role in a busy retail environment. He wears a mask at work now, as required in our state, Oregon. Martin is going to have a conversation with Jasper (this vaccination info was shared via text), but in the meantime, what are Martin's options? Martin owns the house and Jasper and Darrell are his tenants, but they have lived together for years, and I don't think they have a formal lease. Can he somehow require Jasper to be vaccinated? And what if Jasper refuses?

I'm also looking for advice on how to handle this in my relationship with Martin. Martin and I both work from home and have been pretty well-aligned about Covid safety and risk tolerance (so we thought!). I'm perhaps a bit more cautious, but I also live with my kids, two vaccinated teenagers, who both have part-time jobs where they are around other people inside (while wearing masks). One of my kids stays at his other parent's house regularly, so I haven't had any notion of having a closed pod, and I try to limit my own potential exposure otherwise because of this. (I haven't been eating inside restaurants and have only socialized inside with a few people even since vaccination; I've continued to wear masks inside in public places even when it briefly wasn't required.)

I'm relatively healthy and in my 40s. I do not want to get Covid; I'm especially concerned about the possibility of long Covid in vaccinated people, and of course the Delta variant is running wild in Oregon right now, though it's not quite as bad in our community.

What can Martin do, legally and ethically? How should I approach this in thinking about my interactions with Martin?

posted by anonymous to Health & Fitness (20 answers total)

Jasper's vaccination status is already affecting Martin's ability to find new roommates - presumably anyone who does agree to live there will have more lax standards around hygiene and medical safety than Martin might prefer.

Martin should consult with a lawyer or housing group to learn the local rules, then begin eviction proceedings immediately, as they can take some time. During that time Martin won't be able to recruit roommates who aren't anti-vaxxers (or at least people who aren't overly lax in their concerns), so the sooner he starts, the better.
posted by Umami Dearest at 8:37 PM on August 23, 2021

then begin eviction proceedings immediately

IANAL but...

Jasper has not done anything that warrants eviction under Oregon law and if Jasper wanted to lawyer up and sue Martin if evicted would have a good case. Whether or not Jasper is affecting the ability to attract new housemates is irrelevant legally and given that the vaccine is not mandatory in any way can't be construed to be a level of danger sufficient to trigger an eviction.

If Martin wants to get Jasper out, the informal nature of the lease means that after 1 year it converted to month to month and it is FAR easier to terminate a lease than to try to evict someone.

What can Martin do, legally and ethically?

"I would like to continue living with you but for my safety and those near me, if you do not get vaccinated and provide proof, I am giving written notice of termination of our month to month lease effective such and such date. This isn't just for my protection - here's information on why it's useful to you. Now that the FDA has certified at least one vaccine, we know it's safe, at least way safer than getting Covid. [If appropriate] If you need help getting to a vaccination location, I'm happy to give you a ride."

How should I approach this in thinking about my interactions with Martin?

Are you willing to break up with him over this if he doesn't want to kick Jasper out and Jasper refuses to get vaccinated?

"Given the growing incidence of Delta being transmitted to vaccinated individuals, to feel comfortable continue in our relationship, I need to feel secure that everyone we're in frequent contact with, particularly while not masked like at home, is vaccinated. Are we aligned on this safety point?"
posted by Candleman at 8:54 PM on August 23, 2021

(All this - my suggestion for eviction - is under the assumption that Jasper doesn't agree to immediately get vaccinated, once Martin explains to him that his vaccination status is affecting his ability to recruit roommates. But Martin should know what his legal rights are before going into that conversation with Jasper.)
posted by Umami Dearest at 8:55 PM on August 23, 2021

it is FAR easier to terminate a lease than to try to evict someone.

Well yes, of course, I was using "evict" in the general sense of kicking them out by whatever means are legal and easiest to do, and it sounds like simply ending the lease would do the job. He should probably still consult with a lawyer though.
posted by Umami Dearest at 8:59 PM on August 23, 2021

The softest touch would be to explore why Jasper hasn't gotten the vaccine and rationalize why they aren't valid reasons without raising the specter of terminating the lease before going nuclear. Whether Martin's relationship with Jasper makes that appropriate or not will depend as will how much effort Martin is willing to put into such an effort. I have a housemate and if he had not gotten vaccinated at the earliest possible opportunity, he'd have been out the door with no qualms at the first opportunity.

I was using "evict" in the general sense

"eviction proceedings" has specific meaning.
posted by Candleman at 9:06 PM on August 23, 2021

First, if I were Martin, I’d sit down and have a chat with Jasper and say, hey, I remember you were going to get the vax. Just wondering when this will be happening because until you get it done we’re going to struggle to get room mates. Then take the conversation from there.

If Martin walks in all, your lease is terminated, get the hell out in 30 days, not only is the friendship over, he could release a holy shitstorm of legal proceedings on himself for no good reason.

It may well be that Jasper plans to do it and simply hasn’t gotten around to it but once he realises the issues it’s causing, he’ll get onto it.

Of course if he says that he’s not going to, then Martin needs to have the conversation around the risk Jasper poses to everyone else and that unfortunately he’s going to have to leave the house. But try the softly softly approach first.
posted by Jubey at 9:14 PM on August 23, 2021

^First, if I were Martin, I’d sit down and have a chat with Jasper

I think the conversation should continue via text. Jasper's been masking up at work, as required, but probably not at home, around his roommates.
posted by Iris Gambol at 11:18 PM on August 23, 2021

Until Jasper gets vaccinated and/or moves out, can Martin mask in common spaces in his house and keep his distance from Jasper? Would Jasper be willing to mask in common spaces in the house? What about keeping windows open if the weather isn’t terrible?
posted by chaiyai at 12:11 AM on August 24, 2021

Yeah, I'd start by having a conversation about how this is affecting Martin and you (and Darrell?) - not just trouble finding roommates, but now feeling uncomfortable/unsafe at home, having to mask at home to feel safe, etc. Asking Jasper to mask at home, etc. Would Jasper be willing to get the vaccine.

Does Darrell also feel uncomfortable with this?

I'd only get into legal remedies if Jasper explicitly refuses any request to get vaccinated.
posted by trig at 2:11 AM on August 24, 2021

I'm also looking for advice on how to handle this in my relationship with Martin.

You've got some good answers here so just about this bit: you have every right to want to make sure that you and your kids are as safe as possible, but (depending somewhat on how long you've been dating) you don't have any right to dictate or force Martin's roommates to do anything. It sounds as though Jasper is a good friend to Martin, so you need to be careful that Martin doesn't feel stuck between a rock and a hard place if he decides to take a different direction than the advice given here.

Control what you can control. Try not to fret. Personally I think the idea of breaking up with him over this is extreme (caveat: I live in a country that's already weathered the worst of our Delta wave and I'm not nearly as paranoid about it than some Mefites), but be aware that this might bring some other things to the surface in regards to personal risk taking and living situations beyond the realm of the pandemic. I know it's scary right now but realistically speaking, you're far, far more likely to catch it from your kids wandering in and out of your home than from Jasper, so try not to worry beyond the realms of necessity. How would you feel if Martin asked that your kids give up their jobs because he was worried about the risk to him catching it through you?
posted by fight or flight at 6:04 AM on August 24, 2021

Jasper could have easily lied and said they were vaccinated. He chose to tell the truth. I think that implies good faith on his part. I would take a soft(er) approach and simply ask them when they are planning on getting vaccinated.

As for you, I am not sure there is anything to do other than asking Martin to ask Jasper to get jabbed. If it is true that vaccinated people can carry as large a virile load as unvaccinated people, it really makes no difference if they are vaccinated or not. I would ask Jasper to wear a mask while in the common areas of the house.
posted by AugustWest at 7:01 AM on August 24, 2021

Martin should sit down with Jasper, in an outdoor space with distancing, and talk to him about how to get him vaccinated quickly. Have a list ready to go of locations. He should plan to walk him through all the steps. Pfizer has just gotten official FDA approval. Start with that. Let him know that you won’t be allowing unvaccinated people to move in to the house. Therefore, they all need to be vaccinated. I’m surprised his employer hasn’t pushed this.
posted by amanda at 8:00 AM on August 24, 2021

I think the solution for you is probably to date on specific days and have Martin do the rapid test before those dates. It’s not perfect but it gives you an additional layer of data.

If I were Martin I’d just start with dude, why not? Please get vaccinated so I don’t have to start thinking about whether we can keep sharing a home.
posted by warriorqueen at 8:01 AM on August 24, 2021

If it is true that vaccinated people can carry as large a virile load as unvaccinated people, it really makes no difference if they are vaccinated or not.

That's not an accurate statement. Even with Delta, vaccinated people are less likely to develop an infection (even if it's asymptomatic).

you're far, far more likely to catch it from your kids wandering in and out of your home than from Jasper

The kids are vaccinated. Jasper is the weakest link here.
posted by Candleman at 8:42 AM on August 24, 2021

The kids are vaccinated. Jasper is the weakest link here.

So is Martin. OP doesn't live with Martin and Jasper, so potentially doesn't need to be in contact with him at all.

In terms of potential avenues for infection, OP is far more exposed to their children (living with them 24/7) who are also potentially exposing themselves to unvaccinated people on a regular basis (through the part-time jobs and also the other family), potentially to a higher degree than Martin. In both cases OP is only exposed through 1 or 2 vaccinated people (Martin or the kids), but IMO the degree of risk is higher with the kids, given the number of different potential exposures, each of which is a roll of the dice.
posted by fight or flight at 9:15 AM on August 24, 2021

While it's great to be vaccinated to reduce risk of death and severe illness it does not mean that you will not contract Covid from only unvaccinated people. My family of four (all fully vaccinated) contracted Covid and then we proceeded to transmit it to my parents, sister, brother-in-law, nephew, and a friend we had dinner with. All of the people involved are fully vaccinated.
posted by loveandhappiness at 12:11 PM on August 24, 2021

I also think an in person conversation is required, and a soft approach as described above. I don’t think continuing the conversation via text is advisable. Too many opportunities for miscommunication. This is an important topic and should be treated as such, discussed face to face.
posted by sucre at 12:33 PM on August 24, 2021

I can't explain it, but this reminds me of the old story about a man searching for a watch he dropped on the street. He was searching under a streetlight. When asked, is there where you dropped it? He said, “no, but this is where I can see.”

Jasper is a perceived risk you are focusing on, but the reality is he is breaching a nonexistent covid bubble.
Your partner can decide what he wants to do, but your kids are potential spreaders, so this is a double standard. Being vaccinated, as far as I can tell, helps you not get covid, or if you do get it, have a mild case, or be asymptomatic. It doesn’t mean you cannot spread it. So, the risk is to Jasper’s health primarily.

Hopefully, Jasper just needs a nudge and will get the jab. But, I don’t think it makes sense for you to expect your partner to kick Jasper out for your peace of mind.
Good luck.
posted by rhonzo at 1:57 PM on August 24, 2021

The housemate/tenant's lack of disclosure in this crisis is pretty significant. OP, a talking point for Martin's discussion with Jasper, and possibly of use in the larger "looking for an additional person to move in" process: yesterday, the FDA approved the Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine.
posted by Iris Gambol at 2:58 PM on August 24, 2021

Being vaccinated, as far as I can tell, helps you not get covid, or if you do get it, have a mild case, or be asymptomatic. It doesn’t mean you cannot spread it.

A vaccinated person is a lot less likely to get COVID and thus a lot less likely to spread COVID. That said, OP, you might want to plot some of this risk out using the Microcovid risk calculator to see how much impact Jasper makes on your risk levels once your kids, ex, Darrell and so forth are all accounted for.

If I were Martin I think I’d say “Hey Jasper, I was surprised when you told that potential roommate you weren’t vaccinated, I thought you were excited about it so I assumed you’d done it?” And then go from there, perhaps pre armed with some microcovid numbers as part of the discussion.
posted by hungrytiger at 12:56 AM on August 25, 2021