Any advice on motivation?
July 2, 2021 3:29 AM Subscribe
I really want to become a more motivated, high functioning person but I'm struggling - does anyone have any advice?
I have a history of anxiety and depression, I also think I developed a deeply ingrained "learned helplessness" from growing up in an abusive environment.
I've moved out at the late age of 28 and am trying a lot harder. I'm in therapy, holding down a full time job (couldn't do that before) and studying.
But there's always this horrible "this is pointless feeling" in my head constantly. I don't try hard at anything, just do the bare minimum and I don't feel engaged in my life. It's like I'm drifting, my mind is very hazy and I don't actually have proper thoughts. I can't focus at all.
I used to be on SSRIs but came off them and feel more motivated and have more energy but those hopeless thoughts haven't gone away. I'm in group therapy and have been for a few years now. I don't want to accept that I actually might be depressed still, maybe that is what's happening here? It's a scary though that this will never go away.
I genuinely am not sure how to shift this horrible black cloud over me. I met up with a lawyer friend yesterday, she is incredibly inspirational. Very motivated, hard working and determined - she came from a rough background too but she had the strength to make it out and function extremely well.
I really want to be more like her. It's depressing to be around someone like me. Does anyone have any advice on how to get more motivated and focused? Have any of you experienced this and overcome it?
I have a history of anxiety and depression, I also think I developed a deeply ingrained "learned helplessness" from growing up in an abusive environment.
I've moved out at the late age of 28 and am trying a lot harder. I'm in therapy, holding down a full time job (couldn't do that before) and studying.
But there's always this horrible "this is pointless feeling" in my head constantly. I don't try hard at anything, just do the bare minimum and I don't feel engaged in my life. It's like I'm drifting, my mind is very hazy and I don't actually have proper thoughts. I can't focus at all.
I used to be on SSRIs but came off them and feel more motivated and have more energy but those hopeless thoughts haven't gone away. I'm in group therapy and have been for a few years now. I don't want to accept that I actually might be depressed still, maybe that is what's happening here? It's a scary though that this will never go away.
I genuinely am not sure how to shift this horrible black cloud over me. I met up with a lawyer friend yesterday, she is incredibly inspirational. Very motivated, hard working and determined - she came from a rough background too but she had the strength to make it out and function extremely well.
I really want to be more like her. It's depressing to be around someone like me. Does anyone have any advice on how to get more motivated and focused? Have any of you experienced this and overcome it?
This is really hard; you have my sympathies.
One thing that helped me a lot was to reframe things in my mind as being less about motivation and more about discipline. Thinking about it as motivation kind of meant that I kept waiting to be inspired, to actively want to do all of the tedious bits of things that add up to achieving goals. (Because every goal, even one you deeply want, has a bunch of tedious things you have to do along the way or else you won't get there).
The things is that nobody wants to do those tedious things and nobody goes around feeling motivated all of the time. The secret of people who look motivated all of the time and accomplish a lot, like your friend, is that they rely on discipline and forcing themselves through the many painful bits, so that they can have the good bits too, which give them energy and engagement to get through the awful ones, creating a virtuous cycle. If you don't do that, you rarely get to the good bits -- the things that actually give you meaning and engage you -- and it becomes a vicious cycle where nothing is interesting, so you don't engage, so nothing becomes interesting, etc etc.
I'll also note that everything I wrote above could be true and you might also have ADD or depression. I have had both. I always have to fight that grey fuzzy unmotivated feeling on some level, but it is definitely exacerbated when I start thinking in terms of motivation and berating myself for not feeling excited and engaged. When I think in terms of discipline and just Do The Crap Things to get myself to the good ones -- however shitty I do them -- then it helps even over and above medication or ADD/depression specific things. (But it might be worth pursuing those, too).
posted by sir jective at 4:12 AM on July 2, 2021 [31 favorites]
One thing that helped me a lot was to reframe things in my mind as being less about motivation and more about discipline. Thinking about it as motivation kind of meant that I kept waiting to be inspired, to actively want to do all of the tedious bits of things that add up to achieving goals. (Because every goal, even one you deeply want, has a bunch of tedious things you have to do along the way or else you won't get there).
The things is that nobody wants to do those tedious things and nobody goes around feeling motivated all of the time. The secret of people who look motivated all of the time and accomplish a lot, like your friend, is that they rely on discipline and forcing themselves through the many painful bits, so that they can have the good bits too, which give them energy and engagement to get through the awful ones, creating a virtuous cycle. If you don't do that, you rarely get to the good bits -- the things that actually give you meaning and engage you -- and it becomes a vicious cycle where nothing is interesting, so you don't engage, so nothing becomes interesting, etc etc.
I'll also note that everything I wrote above could be true and you might also have ADD or depression. I have had both. I always have to fight that grey fuzzy unmotivated feeling on some level, but it is definitely exacerbated when I start thinking in terms of motivation and berating myself for not feeling excited and engaged. When I think in terms of discipline and just Do The Crap Things to get myself to the good ones -- however shitty I do them -- then it helps even over and above medication or ADD/depression specific things. (But it might be worth pursuing those, too).
posted by sir jective at 4:12 AM on July 2, 2021 [31 favorites]
For me I think the feeling that nothing matters relates to ADD impulsivity (it doesn't matter, I'll just do this) and hyperfocus (nothing else matters but what I'm focused on right now, which may well be nihilism) as well as some ego mixed with lack of whatever executive function helps neurotypical people stay on task (I'm a good and capable person, and my brain isn't letting me do this task right now, so I'm going to tell myself it doesn't matter ... although maybe I'll change my mind when I get the boost of stress hormones just before the deadline)
posted by Former Congressional Representative Lenny Lemming at 5:07 AM on July 2, 2021 [4 favorites]
posted by Former Congressional Representative Lenny Lemming at 5:07 AM on July 2, 2021 [4 favorites]
Firstly, there is a huge amount of self-judgement and self-loathing in your post. This, for me, is a real indicator of depression. When I am not depressed, I am able to think things like "I am doing my best considering difficult circumstances" and "I have certain skills and certain weaknesses, just like everyone else" and "I've come a long way since X time, I can see how I have developed and progressed as a result my actions and choices". When I am depressed these thoughts are impossible; it's just a litany of "I am a useless lazy worm who has squandered her privilege and has done nothing with her life and probably doesn't deserve to live", and I feel incapable of any action. So I would consider the possibility that better treatment for your depression may be a step to get out of the kind of cognitive loops that you are currently in, as well as of course treating the other symptoms of depression like anhedonia and lack of motivation- which are exactly what you are beating yourself up about! I think I recall from your previous questions that you are not able to access individual therapy, but there ARE other resources out there, some maybe especially provided cheaply and specifically for survivors of abuse. Please prioritise your health and seek treatment. And if the group therapy doesn't seem to be helping you, maybe it's not the right thing for you.
Secondly, and also on the cognitive side of things, your question and attitude pose an interesting conundrum. You desire to feel motivated. Period. You are judging yourself compared to your friend who you have identified as a "motivated person". But motivation as an abstract notion just doesn't make any sense. It necessitates being motivated for or towards something. I suspect that you have some vague, but necessarily specific ideas about what constitutes a successful life, and that a generalised "motivation" is part of it. You are looking at other people and assessing that they have achieved this standard of success. The thing with holding onto specific standards, assessing yourself and others by them, and always finding yourself falling short, is that you will ALWAYS find yourself falling short because the standards you are imposing on yourself are external and not originated from within yourself. I think the most important thing to do in life is to find what your OWN values and standards are and to try and live by them. That's the only way to find intrinsic motivation and to feel that sense of purpose and meaning. And your own personal standards and values may take a long time for you to figure out and establish, and they might be very different from the current societal external capitalistic standards that we are all being bombarded with all the time. It can be very hard and difficult! And whilst we are figuring things out and finding our own way, there can be tremendous pressure to conform, to carry on judging yourself by these external standards, and the result can be more and more self-judgement and guilt and fear. However, you will know that your standards and values that you have figured out for yourself are good and true, because they will give you REAL motivation: to follow your own path, have faith in yourself, and feel beyond the judgement of others.
How to find your own way? How to discover your own values and internal intrinsic motivation? That will look different for everyone. I think a good thing is to meet many people, put yourself in many environments, see the absolutely infinite ways that a human life can be lived. Get off the internet, get off social media, get out of the city, and see the vast vast array of existence that does not in any way depend on career, image, property and status. You have had an unstable start in life, which makes your challenge maybe harder in some ways than it might be for others, but equally may lead you to more deep and more rewarding paths than may be open for someone who has had an extremely comfortable life. Consider that in Buddhist thought, having good health and good wealth are considered one of the hindrances on the Path, alongside such things as being born as a lowly animal, or into hell. Once you can get a bit of perspective on life, and physically get out of the bubble that you live in which imposes external standards and has a vested interest in making you feel inadequate and a failure, so much more will open up to you. And you will find your interests, purposes, passions and motivations, and they will fuel you onwards, even if from the outside, to other people, they may look meaningless or even crazy.
Basically: motivation does not exist in a vacuum. There is no way to become "a motivated person" without knowing what you are motivated for. And working out what that will be (which is different for everyone! It could be art, or taking care of children, or having a family, or dedicating yourself to a sport, or a religious practice, or activism, or growing food, or flowers, or or or or or...) is (I think) the basis of a meaningful life and a balanced, secure, and confident sense of self. Good luck!
posted by Balthamos at 5:14 AM on July 2, 2021 [21 favorites]
Secondly, and also on the cognitive side of things, your question and attitude pose an interesting conundrum. You desire to feel motivated. Period. You are judging yourself compared to your friend who you have identified as a "motivated person". But motivation as an abstract notion just doesn't make any sense. It necessitates being motivated for or towards something. I suspect that you have some vague, but necessarily specific ideas about what constitutes a successful life, and that a generalised "motivation" is part of it. You are looking at other people and assessing that they have achieved this standard of success. The thing with holding onto specific standards, assessing yourself and others by them, and always finding yourself falling short, is that you will ALWAYS find yourself falling short because the standards you are imposing on yourself are external and not originated from within yourself. I think the most important thing to do in life is to find what your OWN values and standards are and to try and live by them. That's the only way to find intrinsic motivation and to feel that sense of purpose and meaning. And your own personal standards and values may take a long time for you to figure out and establish, and they might be very different from the current societal external capitalistic standards that we are all being bombarded with all the time. It can be very hard and difficult! And whilst we are figuring things out and finding our own way, there can be tremendous pressure to conform, to carry on judging yourself by these external standards, and the result can be more and more self-judgement and guilt and fear. However, you will know that your standards and values that you have figured out for yourself are good and true, because they will give you REAL motivation: to follow your own path, have faith in yourself, and feel beyond the judgement of others.
How to find your own way? How to discover your own values and internal intrinsic motivation? That will look different for everyone. I think a good thing is to meet many people, put yourself in many environments, see the absolutely infinite ways that a human life can be lived. Get off the internet, get off social media, get out of the city, and see the vast vast array of existence that does not in any way depend on career, image, property and status. You have had an unstable start in life, which makes your challenge maybe harder in some ways than it might be for others, but equally may lead you to more deep and more rewarding paths than may be open for someone who has had an extremely comfortable life. Consider that in Buddhist thought, having good health and good wealth are considered one of the hindrances on the Path, alongside such things as being born as a lowly animal, or into hell. Once you can get a bit of perspective on life, and physically get out of the bubble that you live in which imposes external standards and has a vested interest in making you feel inadequate and a failure, so much more will open up to you. And you will find your interests, purposes, passions and motivations, and they will fuel you onwards, even if from the outside, to other people, they may look meaningless or even crazy.
Basically: motivation does not exist in a vacuum. There is no way to become "a motivated person" without knowing what you are motivated for. And working out what that will be (which is different for everyone! It could be art, or taking care of children, or having a family, or dedicating yourself to a sport, or a religious practice, or activism, or growing food, or flowers, or or or or or...) is (I think) the basis of a meaningful life and a balanced, secure, and confident sense of self. Good luck!
posted by Balthamos at 5:14 AM on July 2, 2021 [21 favorites]
A lot of times, for me, "motivation" is something that doesn't happen if I think about it much at all. Being able to do things is largely a matter of the first step, and if I spend much time internally measuring the pros and cons of things, I get trapped in a spiral of thinking about things, rather than doing them.
In my own therapy sessions, I've concentrated quite a lot on being able to function despite whatever emotions my brain throws at me. My biggest stumbling block is anxiety. I can whirl around in terrible anxiety for a long time, to the point of complete paralysis. But feeling anxious is a feeling, and feelings are things we can, with work, choose to allow to happen (or even set aside, though I'm not so good at doing that) while we get on with other things. So being in the anxiety, or depression, or unmotivated feelings, but doing the things I want to do, is something I can usually succeed at.
I think a lot of times, I've mixed up "motivation" for "accomplishments," and I feel that not wanting the same accomplishments that people get praised for is something that's more important for me to acknowledge than to beat myself up for not wanting those particular things.
posted by xingcat at 5:22 AM on July 2, 2021 [3 favorites]
In my own therapy sessions, I've concentrated quite a lot on being able to function despite whatever emotions my brain throws at me. My biggest stumbling block is anxiety. I can whirl around in terrible anxiety for a long time, to the point of complete paralysis. But feeling anxious is a feeling, and feelings are things we can, with work, choose to allow to happen (or even set aside, though I'm not so good at doing that) while we get on with other things. So being in the anxiety, or depression, or unmotivated feelings, but doing the things I want to do, is something I can usually succeed at.
I think a lot of times, I've mixed up "motivation" for "accomplishments," and I feel that not wanting the same accomplishments that people get praised for is something that's more important for me to acknowledge than to beat myself up for not wanting those particular things.
posted by xingcat at 5:22 AM on July 2, 2021 [3 favorites]
I would actually ask you if you have a small group of things that “fill your well” - sources of joy. Some of mine as an example currently are: walks on trails near me, my two tomato plants, painting class (this one is kind of new and a bit raw for me), I got some new bowls that make me happy each day, I have a flavour of tea (maple chai) I am loving. I also am re-listening to the Miles Vorkosigan series on audiobook from my library while I do chores and it’s making them cosy.
If not, rather than trying to rev your engine higher, maybe look for higher quality fuel?
How I built what I would call persistence rather than motivation (and it’s a work in progress!) was to start by tackling things I enjoyed but had slight challenges. At one point it was guitar (never got very good.) planting a garden. Taking some courses in adult education. Over the pandemic I did a UX certificate. Those are mine but maybe for you it’s swimming or knitting or fanfic?
posted by warriorqueen at 5:59 AM on July 2, 2021 [8 favorites]
If not, rather than trying to rev your engine higher, maybe look for higher quality fuel?
How I built what I would call persistence rather than motivation (and it’s a work in progress!) was to start by tackling things I enjoyed but had slight challenges. At one point it was guitar (never got very good.) planting a garden. Taking some courses in adult education. Over the pandemic I did a UX certificate. Those are mine but maybe for you it’s swimming or knitting or fanfic?
posted by warriorqueen at 5:59 AM on July 2, 2021 [8 favorites]
It's interesting to me that you mention a friend who's a lawyer. I do this to myself with doctors, who look to me like they are just phenomenally talented people who have gotten into a profession where everything they touch turns to gold. The doctors who are actually in my life assure me that's not true and that there's been a lot of hard work and uncertainty and even heartbreak for them too. But having a profession like that, with multiple credentials and probably some talent too, does seem from the outside like a clearer path than most of us have.
During this pandemic, I back to school, and one of my teachers is very much into the concept of "tools, not rules." She has a daily practice where she gets up every morning and works for an hour without even getting out of bed. I can't fathom doing this without having some coffee, so I get out of bed. But the sole motivation is to be able to say I worked for an hour at least. One hour a day is not going to get me through this course, but it helps with the cycle of self-blame. I am not a complete piece of shit today because I did that one hour.
In other words, it's helped me to think about designing my day rather than trying to have the right attitude or approach to work in general.
posted by BibiRose at 6:02 AM on July 2, 2021 [4 favorites]
During this pandemic, I back to school, and one of my teachers is very much into the concept of "tools, not rules." She has a daily practice where she gets up every morning and works for an hour without even getting out of bed. I can't fathom doing this without having some coffee, so I get out of bed. But the sole motivation is to be able to say I worked for an hour at least. One hour a day is not going to get me through this course, but it helps with the cycle of self-blame. I am not a complete piece of shit today because I did that one hour.
In other words, it's helped me to think about designing my day rather than trying to have the right attitude or approach to work in general.
posted by BibiRose at 6:02 AM on July 2, 2021 [4 favorites]
You sound like you’re objectively doing well at life - self awareness to break cycles, full time job, and studying? That’s a lot. It’s actually way more than most people who often just have a job and a hobby (plus pandemic!)
So it sounds like feelings you’re having are probably what need to shift more than your actual behaviours, and from the tone of your question I think those feelings are more likely to be chemical imbalances than personality flaws.
Definitely work on the depression and try different things to help mitigate it. Also look into your iron, vitamin B12, vitamin D, sex hormone levels, and thyroid levels, all of which mess with energy and motivation. Good luck!
posted by nouvelle-personne at 6:21 AM on July 2, 2021 [4 favorites]
So it sounds like feelings you’re having are probably what need to shift more than your actual behaviours, and from the tone of your question I think those feelings are more likely to be chemical imbalances than personality flaws.
Definitely work on the depression and try different things to help mitigate it. Also look into your iron, vitamin B12, vitamin D, sex hormone levels, and thyroid levels, all of which mess with energy and motivation. Good luck!
posted by nouvelle-personne at 6:21 AM on July 2, 2021 [4 favorites]
"this is pointless feeling"
Well, is it pointless?
I'm not asking that question facetiously. David Graeber has written about the concept of bullshit jobs. If yours is such a job, it's entirely reasonable for you to lack motivation. Indeed, it would be rather unreasonable to expect such a job to motivate you.
I read something once along the lines of procrastination is our subconscious mind's way of telling us we're not doing what we should be doing. And lack of motivation is just procrastination without something else to take the place of what you think you ought to be doing.
You seem to be holding up this lawyer friend as a foil because they have a non-bullshit job, but that's missing the point. Lots of people have bullshit jobs and still have motivation. The secret is to find something other than work that motivates you. It doesn't have to be particularly high-minded, either. I spent much of the past few weeks being very excited about a friend's birthday party for their kid at Chuck E. Cheese, to give a particularly glib example. There are lots of little things like that that motivate me: Eating at a new burger place in town. Going for a hike. Watching my favorite football team play. YMMV on that one; I'm a big football fan, but for you it might be seeing your favorite band live or playing a new video game the day it comes out. You get the point.
(I would also advise against assuming your lawyer friend's job motivates them. That's not the case for a lot of lawyers. I went to law school for a year, and it was one of the most demotivating experiences I've ever had. Note that when a student tells a lawyer they're in law school, the lawyer invariably responds "I'm sorry". Invariably.)
Anyway, my suggestion is to figure out what does motivate you, and then reorganize your thinking toward that. Reframe your thinking about whatever as allowing you to do the thing you're wanting to do. I don't find my job particularly motivating, but it does give me a lot of time and money to do the things I do find motivating. That's not to say I never procrastinate at work (hey there, incomplete test plans on my other monitor!), but in general I'm able to see work as a means to an end. Think about cooking: If you like cooking, you might not like going grocery shopping, but grocery shopping is a prerequisite for being able to cook, so you do it. Work is like grocery shopping, but that only works if you've got something you're planning to do with your metaphorical groceries.
If you can't find anything to motivate you, then I'd be worried about depression, but even when I've been depressed there have been things I could look forward to.
posted by kevinbelt at 6:41 AM on July 2, 2021 [2 favorites]
Well, is it pointless?
I'm not asking that question facetiously. David Graeber has written about the concept of bullshit jobs. If yours is such a job, it's entirely reasonable for you to lack motivation. Indeed, it would be rather unreasonable to expect such a job to motivate you.
I read something once along the lines of procrastination is our subconscious mind's way of telling us we're not doing what we should be doing. And lack of motivation is just procrastination without something else to take the place of what you think you ought to be doing.
You seem to be holding up this lawyer friend as a foil because they have a non-bullshit job, but that's missing the point. Lots of people have bullshit jobs and still have motivation. The secret is to find something other than work that motivates you. It doesn't have to be particularly high-minded, either. I spent much of the past few weeks being very excited about a friend's birthday party for their kid at Chuck E. Cheese, to give a particularly glib example. There are lots of little things like that that motivate me: Eating at a new burger place in town. Going for a hike. Watching my favorite football team play. YMMV on that one; I'm a big football fan, but for you it might be seeing your favorite band live or playing a new video game the day it comes out. You get the point.
(I would also advise against assuming your lawyer friend's job motivates them. That's not the case for a lot of lawyers. I went to law school for a year, and it was one of the most demotivating experiences I've ever had. Note that when a student tells a lawyer they're in law school, the lawyer invariably responds "I'm sorry". Invariably.)
Anyway, my suggestion is to figure out what does motivate you, and then reorganize your thinking toward that. Reframe your thinking about whatever as allowing you to do the thing you're wanting to do. I don't find my job particularly motivating, but it does give me a lot of time and money to do the things I do find motivating. That's not to say I never procrastinate at work (hey there, incomplete test plans on my other monitor!), but in general I'm able to see work as a means to an end. Think about cooking: If you like cooking, you might not like going grocery shopping, but grocery shopping is a prerequisite for being able to cook, so you do it. Work is like grocery shopping, but that only works if you've got something you're planning to do with your metaphorical groceries.
If you can't find anything to motivate you, then I'd be worried about depression, but even when I've been depressed there have been things I could look forward to.
posted by kevinbelt at 6:41 AM on July 2, 2021 [2 favorites]
On a meta level: You deserve to get help from a medical expert who is a good listener.
This is a complicated situation. You might or might not still be depressed, but you're clearly still something.
Did the person who prescribed your SSRI make you feel safe and supported and listened-to? Did they seem to be considering lots of options, and not just immediately shoving you in a box marked "depression"? And did they have specific training in psychiatry? (In the US, that would mean they were a psychiatrist or a psych NP, not a family doctor.)
If "yes" to all of those, go back to that person and have another conversation.
If "no," find someone who does tick all those boxes. You could use your next question on here to ask about good, empathetic, patient prescribers in your area.
(In my experience, psych NPs are the best bet. Nurses are trained to be good listener and they have more time to spend with patients, and psych NPs still get thorough training in psych meds and are licensed to prescribe them. They're also more likely to admit that not everything can be fixed with meds. Best of both worlds, IMHO.)
posted by nebulawindphone at 6:45 AM on July 2, 2021 [1 favorite]
This is a complicated situation. You might or might not still be depressed, but you're clearly still something.
Did the person who prescribed your SSRI make you feel safe and supported and listened-to? Did they seem to be considering lots of options, and not just immediately shoving you in a box marked "depression"? And did they have specific training in psychiatry? (In the US, that would mean they were a psychiatrist or a psych NP, not a family doctor.)
If "yes" to all of those, go back to that person and have another conversation.
If "no," find someone who does tick all those boxes. You could use your next question on here to ask about good, empathetic, patient prescribers in your area.
(In my experience, psych NPs are the best bet. Nurses are trained to be good listener and they have more time to spend with patients, and psych NPs still get thorough training in psych meds and are licensed to prescribe them. They're also more likely to admit that not everything can be fixed with meds. Best of both worlds, IMHO.)
posted by nebulawindphone at 6:45 AM on July 2, 2021 [1 favorite]
I didn't see anyone else say it, but I have always been low motivation. At 30, I got a prescription for ADHD meds at a low dose (off brand Adderall XR 5mg). I used it for a week or two and now... I just don't have low motivation problems anymore. I use it maybe once a month if I'm feeling behind on work. It worked well for me.
Others say there's a lot of drawbacks to Adderall, and I might still encounter them. But I haven't yet. It's not a miracle drug and you can't depend on it long term. But it helped get me out of a rut, and recontextualize my motivation day to day.
posted by bbqturtle at 6:49 AM on July 2, 2021 [1 favorite]
Others say there's a lot of drawbacks to Adderall, and I might still encounter them. But I haven't yet. It's not a miracle drug and you can't depend on it long term. But it helped get me out of a rut, and recontextualize my motivation day to day.
posted by bbqturtle at 6:49 AM on July 2, 2021 [1 favorite]
i have brutal MDD. this may not apply.
I can't say this is working yet - it's an ongoing experiment - but it's working a little. per my shrink:
put events and activities you look forward to on the calendar. things that give you delight. then, look at your calendar, a lot. notice what happens.
//--------------
i believe this is the begining of motivation. perhaps techniques applying to neutral or difficult events are next.
that is, i believe she's saying something like: people aren't "motivated". they are "motivated for things". build a life with a lot of "important things".
eh, fwiw. cheers!
posted by j_curiouser at 7:08 AM on July 2, 2021 [5 favorites]
I can't say this is working yet - it's an ongoing experiment - but it's working a little. per my shrink:
put events and activities you look forward to on the calendar. things that give you delight. then, look at your calendar, a lot. notice what happens.
//--------------
i believe this is the begining of motivation. perhaps techniques applying to neutral or difficult events are next.
that is, i believe she's saying something like: people aren't "motivated". they are "motivated for things". build a life with a lot of "important things".
eh, fwiw. cheers!
posted by j_curiouser at 7:08 AM on July 2, 2021 [5 favorites]
I'm wondering if you are confusing "motivation" for "accomplishment". It's good to want to be accomplished, and it's good to recognize that maybe this is something you need to work on - but there's one thing I don't see in your question: what is it you want to be motivated to do?
I'm wondering if this might be part of the problem. It can be tempting to look at someone who is remarkably successful and see how dedicated they are to what they do, and think that "boy, if I had that much ambition I could do anything". But unless you know what the "anything" is that you want to do, just sitting there having motivation doesn't help you.
However - if you do have an idea about what you want to do, having that goal in mind can help get you motivated. A few years ago, I also was feeling a little unmotivated and bored; but instead of trying to get more motivated, I thought about a project I wanted to do. I picked something low-stakes - a movie blog just for fun. And it turned out to be so fun, I've stuck with it all this time and I'm building a following slowly but surely. And I am doing that not by trying to "be motivated", I'm doing that because even on the days when I'm brain-dead, I still find the blog so much fun that I get excited about watching the movie and writing my review.
And it's okay if this stuff you want to do isn't a hugely important and prominent career thing. It's okay if all you want to do is have a pays-the-bills job that you're comfortable with, which also leaves you with enough of your brain left over in your free time for you to bumble along doing interesting things as they catch your fancy.
It's easy to fall into the trap of defining "success" as a big splashy thing. But Stephen King said something once about how to know if you were a talented writer that has always stuck with me: "If someone paid you for something you wrote, the check they paid you with didn't bounce, and it was enough money to pay a utility bill with, you are a talented writer." Similarly - if you are able to maintain a job that you feel comfortable in, and it's enough money to meet your needs, that is success. It sounds like you have already done the work to get to that level, so - that's already something to be proud of! Success doesn't always have to have everyone looking at you for it to be valid.
So I wonder if instead of focusing on feeling motivated, you may want to spend some time thinking about the things you want to do with that motivation. And it's perfectly okay if some of that stuff is just for fun! Because the just-for-fun stuff feeds your soul and gives you some joy, and that is part of creating a happy life. If you realize you're happier with a modest "career" and you just do a series of interesting things for fun, that sounds like an excellent life.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:27 AM on July 2, 2021 [3 favorites]
I'm wondering if this might be part of the problem. It can be tempting to look at someone who is remarkably successful and see how dedicated they are to what they do, and think that "boy, if I had that much ambition I could do anything". But unless you know what the "anything" is that you want to do, just sitting there having motivation doesn't help you.
However - if you do have an idea about what you want to do, having that goal in mind can help get you motivated. A few years ago, I also was feeling a little unmotivated and bored; but instead of trying to get more motivated, I thought about a project I wanted to do. I picked something low-stakes - a movie blog just for fun. And it turned out to be so fun, I've stuck with it all this time and I'm building a following slowly but surely. And I am doing that not by trying to "be motivated", I'm doing that because even on the days when I'm brain-dead, I still find the blog so much fun that I get excited about watching the movie and writing my review.
And it's okay if this stuff you want to do isn't a hugely important and prominent career thing. It's okay if all you want to do is have a pays-the-bills job that you're comfortable with, which also leaves you with enough of your brain left over in your free time for you to bumble along doing interesting things as they catch your fancy.
It's easy to fall into the trap of defining "success" as a big splashy thing. But Stephen King said something once about how to know if you were a talented writer that has always stuck with me: "If someone paid you for something you wrote, the check they paid you with didn't bounce, and it was enough money to pay a utility bill with, you are a talented writer." Similarly - if you are able to maintain a job that you feel comfortable in, and it's enough money to meet your needs, that is success. It sounds like you have already done the work to get to that level, so - that's already something to be proud of! Success doesn't always have to have everyone looking at you for it to be valid.
So I wonder if instead of focusing on feeling motivated, you may want to spend some time thinking about the things you want to do with that motivation. And it's perfectly okay if some of that stuff is just for fun! Because the just-for-fun stuff feeds your soul and gives you some joy, and that is part of creating a happy life. If you realize you're happier with a modest "career" and you just do a series of interesting things for fun, that sounds like an excellent life.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 7:27 AM on July 2, 2021 [3 favorites]
It actually sounds like you are already motivated but you simultaneously have enormous self-judgment holding you back. It is like a car with the gas pedal pressed down but the brakes also fully engaged.
You mentioned that you start to get a bit excited, and then immediately the dark thought of "it's pointless" descends and dampens the enthusiasm.
I have found it helpful to be around people who are comfortable with their own limitations and screw-ups. For example, once at a party, a popular guy told a group of us about his date the prior week. It was with a woman he was really attracted to, but she seemed uninterested in him and later rejected him. I was shocked that he was so carefree in telling it. He did not hide his rejection. He wasn't embarrassed. He did not try to make himself sound better in the story. He expressed his disappointment, but he also seemed confident despite what happened. It was a role model for me in being less bothered by dating mishaps and hence more enthusiastic about dating.
Are there some areas where you don't feel anxious and thus your enthusiasm is unbridled? For me, sports is in that category. It is not part of my identity, so I don't care if I screw up. Over time, I try to channel that not-bothered energy toward other pursuits.
My advice is to focus less on increasing motivation (pressing the gas pedal) and focus more on decreasing self-criticism (releasing the brakes).
posted by sandwich at 8:17 AM on July 2, 2021 [8 favorites]
You mentioned that you start to get a bit excited, and then immediately the dark thought of "it's pointless" descends and dampens the enthusiasm.
I have found it helpful to be around people who are comfortable with their own limitations and screw-ups. For example, once at a party, a popular guy told a group of us about his date the prior week. It was with a woman he was really attracted to, but she seemed uninterested in him and later rejected him. I was shocked that he was so carefree in telling it. He did not hide his rejection. He wasn't embarrassed. He did not try to make himself sound better in the story. He expressed his disappointment, but he also seemed confident despite what happened. It was a role model for me in being less bothered by dating mishaps and hence more enthusiastic about dating.
Are there some areas where you don't feel anxious and thus your enthusiasm is unbridled? For me, sports is in that category. It is not part of my identity, so I don't care if I screw up. Over time, I try to channel that not-bothered energy toward other pursuits.
My advice is to focus less on increasing motivation (pressing the gas pedal) and focus more on decreasing self-criticism (releasing the brakes).
posted by sandwich at 8:17 AM on July 2, 2021 [8 favorites]
Identity precedes action. Action precedes motivation.
Figure out who you want to be and start thinking of yourself that way. If you want to be strong, motivated, hard working and determined, then you start by thinking of yourself that way.
posted by aniola at 8:26 AM on July 2, 2021 [2 favorites]
Figure out who you want to be and start thinking of yourself that way. If you want to be strong, motivated, hard working and determined, then you start by thinking of yourself that way.
posted by aniola at 8:26 AM on July 2, 2021 [2 favorites]
I think a lot of people - especially those of us who may have some executive function divergences thanks to ADHD, trauma, and/or mental health/neurochem challenges - assume motivation is a train that just pulls into the station on a schedule planned and maintained by some governing body off somewhere behind a mysterious curtain. We wait to "feel like" doing things, because sometimes that's exactly what happens...just not consistently, even for things we really enjoy.
That's not actually how it works. Not even for really "motivated" people. The secret is that those people learned (maybe they did so on their own, but probably at least in part they learned it by being exposed to other people who already learned it and passed it on, which in fact does happen in semi-apprenticeships like law and medicine) to run their own trains, and it's something they constantly practice and keep strong, like a muscle. Motivation doesn't make the train go - planning, practice, and lowercase-p productivity do. It's a state of mind more than a feeling that is supposed to happen at a certain time.
You do have to treat your depression, though, because part of the train operating system runs on dopamine and serotonin. If one medication didn't work for you, you may have to consider others. You may have to seek treatment for underlying gut issues, and get bloodwork for thyroid and vitamin levels. You'll have to work on identifying and managing your triggers with therapy.
You'll also have to examine your narrative framework and re-position yourself on the underlying emotional mechanisms of procrastination (fear of failure, perfectionism, a broken reward system that gives you more neurochemical treats for panic and last-minute scrambles instead of crossing things off the list on time, self harm) - this is the therapy stuff, and this is also why uppercase-p Productivity is a billion dollar business. It's not easy, and it's not instant, and people want easy and instant more than anything else.
But I agree with others here that the first thing you have to do is go easier on yourself. Being mean isn't going to solve the problem. Shame spiraling isn't going to net any additional accomplishments. This shit is hard for everybody, but it is also something most people keep a pretty straight face about so you can't judge from how easy or hard it SEEMS to be for someone else. (Also, a lot of people who appear extremely together in one region of their lives, like work, are often falling apart in some other region. Very few people are keeping it together 100% in all ways at all times.)
posted by Lyn Never at 8:32 AM on July 2, 2021 [7 favorites]
That's not actually how it works. Not even for really "motivated" people. The secret is that those people learned (maybe they did so on their own, but probably at least in part they learned it by being exposed to other people who already learned it and passed it on, which in fact does happen in semi-apprenticeships like law and medicine) to run their own trains, and it's something they constantly practice and keep strong, like a muscle. Motivation doesn't make the train go - planning, practice, and lowercase-p productivity do. It's a state of mind more than a feeling that is supposed to happen at a certain time.
You do have to treat your depression, though, because part of the train operating system runs on dopamine and serotonin. If one medication didn't work for you, you may have to consider others. You may have to seek treatment for underlying gut issues, and get bloodwork for thyroid and vitamin levels. You'll have to work on identifying and managing your triggers with therapy.
You'll also have to examine your narrative framework and re-position yourself on the underlying emotional mechanisms of procrastination (fear of failure, perfectionism, a broken reward system that gives you more neurochemical treats for panic and last-minute scrambles instead of crossing things off the list on time, self harm) - this is the therapy stuff, and this is also why uppercase-p Productivity is a billion dollar business. It's not easy, and it's not instant, and people want easy and instant more than anything else.
But I agree with others here that the first thing you have to do is go easier on yourself. Being mean isn't going to solve the problem. Shame spiraling isn't going to net any additional accomplishments. This shit is hard for everybody, but it is also something most people keep a pretty straight face about so you can't judge from how easy or hard it SEEMS to be for someone else. (Also, a lot of people who appear extremely together in one region of their lives, like work, are often falling apart in some other region. Very few people are keeping it together 100% in all ways at all times.)
posted by Lyn Never at 8:32 AM on July 2, 2021 [7 favorites]
Best answer: I read your past questions. You have significant anxiety stemming from your background, and from comparison to people you see as being where you feel you “should” have been at, given your ability, if things weren’t so complex at home.
1) If your dad had a mental illness and abuse occurred, this is a totally valid reason for things to take a bit longer for you. This is a fact to accept about your life. Yes, you’re smart enough to have done a lot of things, but this experience definitely complicates things for people. Sometimes it takes us much longer to process and heal well enough to do the sorts of things others do. This is no fault of yours. If a friend had your experiences, surely you’d feel compassionate towards her? Surely you’d make allowances. You need to do this for yourself.
2) So what if this lawyer had a different path despite her hardships? We’re all unique. Maybe she had good mentors at critical points. Maybe you’re a little more sensitive (which isn’t a bad thing! There are positives to this! Just needs to be oriented in a less self-flagellation direction). NO ONE has walked in your shoes. And you don’t know what advantages people have benefited from (they may not know these themselves, or may credit themselves for luck). You also don’t know what secret pains apparently successful people suffer from, or what they may suffer from in the future. You must accept that your path is your own and stop comparing yourself to other people!
3) You don’t want to be an accountant, that’s the main (other) problem. It’s extremely hard to be motivated to do something you talked yourself into. Get some therapy or guidance, or do some exploration around what else you can do that *would* interest and motivate you, you need to establish goals that resonate for you. Maybe that is in fact working as a doctor. (Maybe it’s not? What is it about medicine that appeals to you? Prestige, power, and having people think you’re smart are not in my opinion enough. Is it a job that your parents valued highly? Is it about unexamined beliefs about value coming from them? The work of it, does the actual day to day work of it appeal to you? Explore as much as you can about the reality of *any* jobs that appeal to you. Maybe there are some things you love to do or used to love to do - or could love to do! - that you’re ignoring or forgetting.) To be motivated, you need clear goals; to have clear goals, you need good data on what works for you.
4) Yeah you need a certain amount of basic energy to do anything, including “have clarity around goals”. Sleep, exercise, and nutrition matter tons.
5) Surround yourself with supportive people who accept you, make you feel good and help bring out the better parts of yourself. If you feel like you have to impress people, they’re not for you. (If you feel like they’re letting you slide into comfortable misery, that’s not great either. Healthy support, fun, positive stuff etc, that’s what they need to bring.)
posted by cotton dress sock at 1:59 PM on July 2, 2021 [4 favorites]
1) If your dad had a mental illness and abuse occurred, this is a totally valid reason for things to take a bit longer for you. This is a fact to accept about your life. Yes, you’re smart enough to have done a lot of things, but this experience definitely complicates things for people. Sometimes it takes us much longer to process and heal well enough to do the sorts of things others do. This is no fault of yours. If a friend had your experiences, surely you’d feel compassionate towards her? Surely you’d make allowances. You need to do this for yourself.
2) So what if this lawyer had a different path despite her hardships? We’re all unique. Maybe she had good mentors at critical points. Maybe you’re a little more sensitive (which isn’t a bad thing! There are positives to this! Just needs to be oriented in a less self-flagellation direction). NO ONE has walked in your shoes. And you don’t know what advantages people have benefited from (they may not know these themselves, or may credit themselves for luck). You also don’t know what secret pains apparently successful people suffer from, or what they may suffer from in the future. You must accept that your path is your own and stop comparing yourself to other people!
3) You don’t want to be an accountant, that’s the main (other) problem. It’s extremely hard to be motivated to do something you talked yourself into. Get some therapy or guidance, or do some exploration around what else you can do that *would* interest and motivate you, you need to establish goals that resonate for you. Maybe that is in fact working as a doctor. (Maybe it’s not? What is it about medicine that appeals to you? Prestige, power, and having people think you’re smart are not in my opinion enough. Is it a job that your parents valued highly? Is it about unexamined beliefs about value coming from them? The work of it, does the actual day to day work of it appeal to you? Explore as much as you can about the reality of *any* jobs that appeal to you. Maybe there are some things you love to do or used to love to do - or could love to do! - that you’re ignoring or forgetting.) To be motivated, you need clear goals; to have clear goals, you need good data on what works for you.
4) Yeah you need a certain amount of basic energy to do anything, including “have clarity around goals”. Sleep, exercise, and nutrition matter tons.
5) Surround yourself with supportive people who accept you, make you feel good and help bring out the better parts of yourself. If you feel like you have to impress people, they’re not for you. (If you feel like they’re letting you slide into comfortable misery, that’s not great either. Healthy support, fun, positive stuff etc, that’s what they need to bring.)
posted by cotton dress sock at 1:59 PM on July 2, 2021 [4 favorites]
The question isn't "why aren't I motivated," it's "what are my barriers?"
Laziness Does Not Exist greatly changed my ideas about discipline and helped me put some of my self-flagellating shame spirals to bed. Give it a read. If you find it helpful, the author Devon Price expanded his ideas in a book.
It sounds like you're already working your ass off and seeing results. This internet stranger gives you kudos!
If your therapist isn't specifically trained to treat complex trauma, you might consider finding one who is. A specialist can make a world of difference.
posted by lloquat at 4:08 PM on July 2, 2021 [4 favorites]
Laziness Does Not Exist greatly changed my ideas about discipline and helped me put some of my self-flagellating shame spirals to bed. Give it a read. If you find it helpful, the author Devon Price expanded his ideas in a book.
It sounds like you're already working your ass off and seeing results. This internet stranger gives you kudos!
If your therapist isn't specifically trained to treat complex trauma, you might consider finding one who is. A specialist can make a world of difference.
posted by lloquat at 4:08 PM on July 2, 2021 [4 favorites]
When's the last time you had a physical and a full blood work up done? I felt just like this my whole life until I was diagnosed with low thyroid. The test & the treatment are both super simple & inexpensive. Eventually I started to feel like I was capable of thinking at all like everyone else seemed to be.
If you haven't done this lately. Find a general practitioner and tell them you feel bad & you'd like to get your levels checked.
posted by bleep at 9:32 PM on July 2, 2021
If you haven't done this lately. Find a general practitioner and tell them you feel bad & you'd like to get your levels checked.
posted by bleep at 9:32 PM on July 2, 2021
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Often depression and anxiety accompany ADHD and are essentially reactive (or at least comorbid). I was treated without much success for depression by itself for years and would never go down that road again, not without at least checking for ADHD.
Check out Dr. Russell Barkley's books and videos... and this ADDitude checklist that helps look for symptoms of ADHD in women is also invaluable, since the disorder often shows up different from the decades-old "can't sit still" model.
posted by Sheydem-tants at 4:09 AM on July 2, 2021 [8 favorites]