legality of unpaid trainings

June 18, 2021 6:17 AM

Is it ever legal for employers to not pay independent contractors for trainings which are during the work day, related to work procedures, and mandatory? As far as my research indicates, no, but maybe I am missing something?

If this is not legal, how do I deal with/approach this? I am planning on leaving the job soon; however, after leaving I will need my supervisors there to sign for hours supervised that I will need for a license. They technically could refuse to sign, so I also can't afford to burn bridges.

Maybe I can report the agency somewhere?

posted by bearette to Work & Money (13 answers total)

What do you want to achieve?
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 6:25 AM on June 18, 2021

I came in here to ask the same question NotMyselfRightNow is asking. You've conflated three questions here - "what does the law say about this", "what are my options" and "what am I trying to accomplish."

If you're leaving this job soon I would make sure that you got really, really specific about what you considered a successful outcome for you, and with respect to your own goals, before making another move.
posted by mhoye at 6:32 AM on June 18, 2021

Response by poster: I want to get paid for my time! I also want the agency to face consequences and to stop doing this.
posted by bearette at 6:34 AM on June 18, 2021 [2 favorites]

Response by poster: If answerers feel I am conflating, please just address the first question about legality if you have some definitive information about that. Thanks.
posted by bearette at 6:42 AM on June 18, 2021

What state or jurisdiction?

FWIW, Federal law (FLSA) any time your employer requires you to spend "on the clock" (which would include mandatory training) must be paid.

HOWEVER... the fact that you are an "independent contractor" does muddy the waters quite a bit.

And you mentioned an "agency".

So please clarify WHO required you to get the training, who's paying you, and so on and so forth.
posted by kschang at 6:44 AM on June 18, 2021

It sounds like there are a couple of issues here: you're probably incorrectly classified if they're calling you an "independent contractor" but they're giving you training AT ALL, and especially if they're requiring you to do specific tasks (training or otherwise) at specific times. And then in addition to classifying you as a contractor when you're probably legally supposed to be an "employee," they're not paying you for training time.

There are some cases where unpaid "pre-employment training" is legal, so long as it's VOLUNTARY and it's more to the benefit of a the trainee than the company. If it's mandatory and inside regular business hours, nope.

Anyway, you can report them to the IRS about the improper classification thing, and also file a wage complaint under the FLSA and your relevant state agency (google "wage complaint yourstate"). If there's significant amounts of money involved you might also find it worth your while to get a phone consultation with an employment attorney (the consultation is usually free, but the attorney's recommendation of whether or not to pursue the case will likely be dependent on how much money is at stake).
posted by mskyle at 6:55 AM on June 18, 2021 [9 favorites]

What actually happened? You don't say. You've posed a hypothetical question about whoever.
posted by JimN2TAW at 7:07 AM on June 18, 2021 [1 favorite]

Response by poster: Ok. I am a fee-for-service therapist at a community agency (Medicaid/Medicare- funded services) in PA. I normally am paid for sessions and mandatory meetings only. I have been paid for mandatory trainings before, but was recently told there was a mandatory training coming up, about a paperwork procedure, which will not be paid.

It's not a lot of money, it's more so about the principle/morale issue.
posted by bearette at 7:13 AM on June 18, 2021

Best answer: You are classified as an independent contractor, so the company is *not* your employer, they are more like your client. That means that you don't have FLSA employee protections (if you did, and if you were an hourly employee rather than exempt, they would absolutely need to pay you for all time worked).

Your independent contractor status may (or may not be!) correct, but the fact that you have mandatory training isn't necessarily relevant. I can imagine, say, required safety training for on-site contractors that may or may not be billable time - you are expected to sort that out to your mutual satisfaction.

On preview - I admittedly know less about employment/contractor arrangements for therapists, but it's perfectly plausible that you're correctly classified as a contractor, so the time/expense of trainings (even mandatory ones) would fall to you. That totally sucks if your overall compensation doesn't have that time baked in, but I'm not convinced it's shady or wrong, more like unfortunate.
posted by zibra at 7:19 AM on June 18, 2021 [1 favorite]

IANAL, IANYL, but I am a therapist who has been an IC and used ICs. This is a very very common issue for therapists as ICs. The FB group "**Group Practice Exchange" gets into the details of these arrangements often. See if they'll let you in. Also if they won't let you into that one, many other FB therapist groups cover this and you may even get some state-specific feedback.

As an IC I *paid* for training, and I had more restrictive work requirements than would be normal for an IC! But my arrangement was part of a practice buy-out/succession plan, and I knew that while I probably wasn't classified correctly it would absolutely pay off for me.

I wouldn't report anything while you're still there and need your hours signed off. In the future, make sure the details of your W-2 or 1099 status are all spelled out in a contract. I know of group practice owners who pay W-2s per clinical hour but *don't* pay for time spent writing notes or having staff meetings, thus diluting that rate significantly.
posted by MonsieurBon at 7:43 AM on June 18, 2021 [2 favorites]

Hmm, in your case that could be taken more like, "if you want to use OUR services (billing, office space, etc.)" you need to take this training.
posted by mskyle at 8:44 AM on June 18, 2021 [2 favorites]

Best answer: My guess is that you really, really need for the supervisors to sign off on your hours to get your license. So, I would put not burning bridges as a higher priority than getting paid for the specific training.

Second, you no doubt signed an employment contract of some type when you came on board as an IC. Start by reading that to see what it says about what hours you are allowed to bill for.

Next, I would send a written message to the director (and HR if there is one and it seems helpful) to outline your case (1) mandatory meeting have been paid for in the past (2) what your contract says (3) this meeting is solely for the benefit of the agency (not professional education for you) and see what happens. Be polite and factual. If someone else finds legal support for your case, (I know that is your real question) include that.

Also, if you have less than a full license, check out the rules in your state about the requirements on the relationship between employers and associated/interns. Probably not any help but worth checking.
posted by metahawk at 11:29 AM on June 18, 2021 [1 favorite]

If you are truly an IC you should have an IC agreement that covers this. If you are working on a limited license, you should also have an oversight agreement that may address this. If your people refuse to sign off on hours, your licensing agency should have a way to deal with it.
posted by dpx.mfx at 12:59 PM on June 18, 2021 [1 favorite]