Close quarters at work (You are not my epidemiologist)
May 12, 2021 10:26 AM
I've gotten fully vaccinated and finally, a part time job. The second day of training they had us stand 3-4 feet apart, facing another, in two long lines. I felt skeeved out even though we were all masked.
I know there is much we know and don't know about Covid-19, variants, etc. I also read only 30 (ish) percent of Americans are vaccinated (this was a week or two ago and may have changed; I am trying to wean off excess bad news for the most part; it's bad for my mental health) but we have a mask mandate going here.
It seems irresponsible to have twenty of us standing closely, crowded together in a small room facing and talking to each other, masks or not.
It's be nice to keep this job seeing as I was unemployed for over a year except for small side jobs. Likewise, I'm happy to quit with regret if I feel unsafe.
What, really, are my risks? By the way the job itself, when training is completed, will be 90% outdoors I think.
I know there is much we know and don't know about Covid-19, variants, etc. I also read only 30 (ish) percent of Americans are vaccinated (this was a week or two ago and may have changed; I am trying to wean off excess bad news for the most part; it's bad for my mental health) but we have a mask mandate going here.
It seems irresponsible to have twenty of us standing closely, crowded together in a small room facing and talking to each other, masks or not.
It's be nice to keep this job seeing as I was unemployed for over a year except for small side jobs. Likewise, I'm happy to quit with regret if I feel unsafe.
What, really, are my risks? By the way the job itself, when training is completed, will be 90% outdoors I think.
The activities you described sound commensurate with what the CDC calls "safest" in their latest recommendations. I would describe what you're referring to as somewhat similar to "attend a full-capacity worship service", and probably less risky than "participate in an indoor, high intensity exercise class", both of which are described as "safest" for vaccinated people wearing a mask.
posted by saeculorum at 10:34 AM on May 12, 2021
posted by saeculorum at 10:34 AM on May 12, 2021
By the way, if you just want to track vaccination rates without reading the news, you can check here for up to the date numbers. Right now, about 35% of the population (adults plus kids) are fully vaccinated, and 46.2% of the population (adults plus kids) are partially vaccinated. Recent evidence suggests even partial vaccination provides significant risk reduction for COVID. If you happen to interact primarily with adults, the numbers go up to 44.7% and 58.5% respectively.
posted by saeculorum at 10:38 AM on May 12, 2021
posted by saeculorum at 10:38 AM on May 12, 2021
Got the vaccine? Experts say you can relax about your Covid-19 risk now. Really. I asked health experts about their post-vaccination lives. Most no longer worry about their own risk of Covid-19.
posted by polecat at 11:07 AM on May 12, 2021
posted by polecat at 11:07 AM on May 12, 2021
It has been a HUGE emotional shift, including because you're right: there are still uncertainties, but having said that, I am now comfortable with a much different type of activity than I was before, based on the available and growing body of evidence.
Being masked and vaccinated puts you at extremely low risk, almost difficult to calculate low risk, for all activities.
This job is safe, especially when you contextualize COVID with all the other risks we face in life (for example, did you cross the street to get to work? That also has dangers).
Also keep in mind, in the vanishingly unlikely case that you get COVID while masked and vaccinated, all the growing research and anecdotes tell us you absolutely will not get severely ill. I actually have a coworkers who is fully vaccinated who is in the very small (by many studies approx 5%) risk for getting COVID. But even though she's positive, she is basically asymptomatic.
This job is safe.
posted by latkes at 12:00 PM on May 12, 2021
Being masked and vaccinated puts you at extremely low risk, almost difficult to calculate low risk, for all activities.
This job is safe, especially when you contextualize COVID with all the other risks we face in life (for example, did you cross the street to get to work? That also has dangers).
Also keep in mind, in the vanishingly unlikely case that you get COVID while masked and vaccinated, all the growing research and anecdotes tell us you absolutely will not get severely ill. I actually have a coworkers who is fully vaccinated who is in the very small (by many studies approx 5%) risk for getting COVID. But even though she's positive, she is basically asymptomatic.
This job is safe.
posted by latkes at 12:00 PM on May 12, 2021
Unless being vaxxed was a requirement for the job, that was not safe.
Safe for you, probably, but not not safe for an unvaxxed group. Not a good call on the employers part.
posted by Dashy at 1:49 PM on May 12, 2021
Safe for you, probably, but not not safe for an unvaxxed group. Not a good call on the employers part.
posted by Dashy at 1:49 PM on May 12, 2021
3-4 feet apart complies with the distancing guidelines in many countries. Your new employer isn't showing an abundance of caution by any means, but neither are they being reckless given the distance and mask requirement.
posted by wierdo at 6:33 PM on May 12, 2021
posted by wierdo at 6:33 PM on May 12, 2021
Epidemiologist chiming in. Is this training all indoors? If so, no, this is not fine just because you're masked and vacc'ed (asymptomatic transmission between vaccinated and unvaccinated people is a genuine, very current concern, as the NY Yankees can tell you right now). Indoor inter-group transmission is what we're still seeing.
I don't know what your comfort level is with mentioning this (perhaps anonymously?) to HR or a manager. Maybe forward that NYT story to them? Say your epidemiologist friend said it's nuts to be indoors with n people for more than just a few minutes at a time, regardless of vaccination status. You almost certainly have local ordinances that specify what is and isn't acceptable in your area if you have a mask mandate. Is the company operating against those recommendations?
For a point of reference, I went into the lab yesterday for the first time in weeks. This lab is well-ventilated, and only 3 people are permitted within it at any time, and we're all more than 6 feet apart at all times (i.e. no clustering at doors, a lot of communication about who is moving where to do what and when, etc.). I won't be back until I have to, in about 2 weeks. Among the people who are working on the "lab clock" of maintaining cell cultures and the like, the restrictions and distancing/timing measures are even more detailed and rigorous. I wouldn't be going in at all if I weren't aware of the ventilation that's standard in labs like these (air exchange is directional from floor to ceiling, not lateral (in which case your aerosols would potentially be pumped out of the room in a straight, continuous line across a neighbors mouth)). That ventilation is uncommon in most commercial office spaces. If you have a greater sense of the ventilation in this space being superior, my concern is lessened but nevertheless still present.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 3:58 AM on May 13, 2021
I don't know what your comfort level is with mentioning this (perhaps anonymously?) to HR or a manager. Maybe forward that NYT story to them? Say your epidemiologist friend said it's nuts to be indoors with n people for more than just a few minutes at a time, regardless of vaccination status. You almost certainly have local ordinances that specify what is and isn't acceptable in your area if you have a mask mandate. Is the company operating against those recommendations?
For a point of reference, I went into the lab yesterday for the first time in weeks. This lab is well-ventilated, and only 3 people are permitted within it at any time, and we're all more than 6 feet apart at all times (i.e. no clustering at doors, a lot of communication about who is moving where to do what and when, etc.). I won't be back until I have to, in about 2 weeks. Among the people who are working on the "lab clock" of maintaining cell cultures and the like, the restrictions and distancing/timing measures are even more detailed and rigorous. I wouldn't be going in at all if I weren't aware of the ventilation that's standard in labs like these (air exchange is directional from floor to ceiling, not lateral (in which case your aerosols would potentially be pumped out of the room in a straight, continuous line across a neighbors mouth)). That ventilation is uncommon in most commercial office spaces. If you have a greater sense of the ventilation in this space being superior, my concern is lessened but nevertheless still present.
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 3:58 AM on May 13, 2021
late afternoon dreaming: We're in there for four hours with a ten minute break. I always wear 2 masks since the variants.
posted by Rumi'sLeftSock at 5:50 AM on May 13, 2021
posted by Rumi'sLeftSock at 5:50 AM on May 13, 2021
The MicroCOVID project says that, with 20 people in the room, this would be a very high-risk activity. That's baseline risk for the entire US - you can put your own location in and change the other parameters (which vaccine, etc.) in their interactive calculator linked above.
posted by acridrabbit at 12:34 PM on May 13, 2021
posted by acridrabbit at 12:34 PM on May 13, 2021
Just to comment on the Yankees story: they weren't masked. Also of course you should make the decision that feels right to you but worth noting Yankees who had breakthrough cases are mostly asymptomatic. Do what you will with this information.
posted by latkes at 2:04 PM on May 13, 2021
posted by latkes at 2:04 PM on May 13, 2021
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posted by david1230 at 10:31 AM on May 12, 2021