How should I deal with shady/stupid house sellers?
April 8, 2021 5:45 AM
I am moving to Texas and the housing market is insane. It’s a complete seller’s market with about 24 hours from listing to bids due. But after finding the “perfect” house the buying process isn’t going so perfectly. How should I proceed?
Our bid for the house was accepted. During the bidding process we were told “the sellers only care about the offer that nets they the most cash”. They also are super anxious to close, wanting to close less than 3 weeks from our bid.
So we put down the Option fee and earnest money, about $8000. Not a small sum in my mind. We then had 6 days to rescind and get that 8k back (the “option” period)
But I’ve worked in the mortgage industry and bought two houses before. I think I know the routine:
1) get a home inspection
2) seller fixes major issues
3) we buy the house.
Well the home inspection found a lot of “little” things, such as
Exposed wiring at the electrical box
The gas fireplace doesn’t work
Dry rot in one area
Water damage to 3 doors in an upstairs bathroom (but no water damage to the floor or walls)
Doors don’t latch properly
Some bricks have hairline cracks. Some bricks on a window sill are loose
The worst finding was there was a crack in the foundation. It was small but worrying. The inspector recommended we have an engineer come out to look at the foundation.
The sellers seemed put out that we wanted the engineer (at our expense). Finally one came out. He said the foundation is perfectly fine. He didn’t even see the crack but he did level tests etc. said it was a good house. BUT...
He found water by one of the tubs. He recommended we get a plumber to do a complete plumbing inspection given the water damage to the doors.
Our realtor and the sellers’ realtor both agreed to extend the option period until after the plumbing inspection. This is normal. But the sellers dug in and said “no way” to extending the option period. They were upset we are doing the plumbing inspection at all.
We asked outright how the doors got water damage. The sellers claimed they “never noticed” the water damage to the doors. I think they are lying as it’s 3 doors with big bubbles at the bottom 25%. You can’t not notice this......
So we have a bad feeling about this...but we LOVE the house, the neighborhood, etc.
But given the sellers’ attitude I expect they will refuse to pay for any of the repairs listed by the home inspector. I’m willing to take some of the repairs on myself, like caulking the kitchen backsplash. Simple things. But major plumbing issues, problems with a gas fireplace, dry rot in the wood...these COULD be simple fixes, or they could become a money pit as the workers find more problems.
I don’t feel by asking the sellers to fix these things that we are being “demon customers “. And I doubt any other buyer wouldn’t ask for the same.
But, again, they are only focused on cash in pocket. Any repairs will cost them some of that cash.
The option expires TODAY. The plumbing inspection is next week. (We DO have an addendum that if the plumbing inside finds problems we can back out and get our $8k back).
I’m wondering, assuming the sellers refuse to do a single home repair before sale, how to proceed.
My thinking is they need to agree to extend our option or agree to the fixes TODAY, or give us our $8k back and we walk..... but this is the only house we’ve found in months that fits our needs. And there’s other buyers waiting in the wings, so I feel our threat to not buy is a hollow one.
So we are stymied. How should we proceed to get the house but not catch ourselves in a money out with thousands and thousands in repair bills?
Our bid for the house was accepted. During the bidding process we were told “the sellers only care about the offer that nets they the most cash”. They also are super anxious to close, wanting to close less than 3 weeks from our bid.
So we put down the Option fee and earnest money, about $8000. Not a small sum in my mind. We then had 6 days to rescind and get that 8k back (the “option” period)
But I’ve worked in the mortgage industry and bought two houses before. I think I know the routine:
1) get a home inspection
2) seller fixes major issues
3) we buy the house.
Well the home inspection found a lot of “little” things, such as
Exposed wiring at the electrical box
The gas fireplace doesn’t work
Dry rot in one area
Water damage to 3 doors in an upstairs bathroom (but no water damage to the floor or walls)
Doors don’t latch properly
Some bricks have hairline cracks. Some bricks on a window sill are loose
The worst finding was there was a crack in the foundation. It was small but worrying. The inspector recommended we have an engineer come out to look at the foundation.
The sellers seemed put out that we wanted the engineer (at our expense). Finally one came out. He said the foundation is perfectly fine. He didn’t even see the crack but he did level tests etc. said it was a good house. BUT...
He found water by one of the tubs. He recommended we get a plumber to do a complete plumbing inspection given the water damage to the doors.
Our realtor and the sellers’ realtor both agreed to extend the option period until after the plumbing inspection. This is normal. But the sellers dug in and said “no way” to extending the option period. They were upset we are doing the plumbing inspection at all.
We asked outright how the doors got water damage. The sellers claimed they “never noticed” the water damage to the doors. I think they are lying as it’s 3 doors with big bubbles at the bottom 25%. You can’t not notice this......
So we have a bad feeling about this...but we LOVE the house, the neighborhood, etc.
But given the sellers’ attitude I expect they will refuse to pay for any of the repairs listed by the home inspector. I’m willing to take some of the repairs on myself, like caulking the kitchen backsplash. Simple things. But major plumbing issues, problems with a gas fireplace, dry rot in the wood...these COULD be simple fixes, or they could become a money pit as the workers find more problems.
I don’t feel by asking the sellers to fix these things that we are being “demon customers “. And I doubt any other buyer wouldn’t ask for the same.
But, again, they are only focused on cash in pocket. Any repairs will cost them some of that cash.
The option expires TODAY. The plumbing inspection is next week. (We DO have an addendum that if the plumbing inside finds problems we can back out and get our $8k back).
I’m wondering, assuming the sellers refuse to do a single home repair before sale, how to proceed.
My thinking is they need to agree to extend our option or agree to the fixes TODAY, or give us our $8k back and we walk..... but this is the only house we’ve found in months that fits our needs. And there’s other buyers waiting in the wings, so I feel our threat to not buy is a hollow one.
So we are stymied. How should we proceed to get the house but not catch ourselves in a money out with thousands and thousands in repair bills?
2) seller fixes major issues
Nothing you've listed is a major issue and I wouldn't expect a seller to fix anything you've listed. Assuming the plumber finds no issues, decide if you're willing to willing to buy the house as is and either proceed or withdraw.
(After four months in a hot market, I'd proceed.)
posted by DarlingBri at 5:53 AM on April 8, 2021
Nothing you've listed is a major issue and I wouldn't expect a seller to fix anything you've listed. Assuming the plumber finds no issues, decide if you're willing to willing to buy the house as is and either proceed or withdraw.
(After four months in a hot market, I'd proceed.)
posted by DarlingBri at 5:53 AM on April 8, 2021
And I doubt any other buyer wouldn’t ask for the same.
I think you underestimate the number of people looking to buy the same kind of house for the same kind of cash, but also willing to throw in 50% more over a few years for tons of repairs. Or a few k and flip it next year when the market is even dumber. So yes I think THEY think your threat is hollow.
As you said, it's nuts. I can't offer any advice except maybe alter your expectations for how to proceed in both a strongly seller's market and in the (over)valued TX scene.
Honestly I'd reconsider why you are moving to TX too, but that's just bc I fled the state in no small part due to this bs.
posted by SaltySalticid at 5:53 AM on April 8, 2021
I think you underestimate the number of people looking to buy the same kind of house for the same kind of cash, but also willing to throw in 50% more over a few years for tons of repairs. Or a few k and flip it next year when the market is even dumber. So yes I think THEY think your threat is hollow.
As you said, it's nuts. I can't offer any advice except maybe alter your expectations for how to proceed in both a strongly seller's market and in the (over)valued TX scene.
Honestly I'd reconsider why you are moving to TX too, but that's just bc I fled the state in no small part due to this bs.
posted by SaltySalticid at 5:53 AM on April 8, 2021
I'm curious how old this house is because all of these issues sound pretty normal for an older home. If I was you, I'd think through the worst case scenario costs (needing to redo a bunch of plumbing, replacing floors, doors, etc.). Can you afford these costs (possibly with an additional loan)? If so, I'd move forward. My guess is that even if the plumber finds something terrible, you're not going to get a big allowance from it anyways because there are other buyers waiting.
We bought a house with most of the issues you describe and have had to do $10K to $20K in repairs every couple of years. The ongoing costs are incredibly frustrating, but I still love our house and am happy with the purchase.
posted by JuliaKM at 6:10 AM on April 8, 2021
We bought a house with most of the issues you describe and have had to do $10K to $20K in repairs every couple of years. The ongoing costs are incredibly frustrating, but I still love our house and am happy with the purchase.
posted by JuliaKM at 6:10 AM on April 8, 2021
We were recently in the market, and we were competing against buyers willing to pay all cash who were waiving inspections completely. Our realtor advised us we should at least waive repairs on any inspection issue discovered that costs less then $2,000 to fix.
This is the reality of the market right now. Either walk or accept the known issues as they stand and accept that you will probably have to put some money into this home.
posted by MonsieurBon at 6:17 AM on April 8, 2021
This is the reality of the market right now. Either walk or accept the known issues as they stand and accept that you will probably have to put some money into this home.
posted by MonsieurBon at 6:17 AM on April 8, 2021
to Juliakm - the house was built in 2014.
The house we're selling was like you describe, we've had to put $20k in per year for a decade, and that's money we're not going to get out of the sale. We are really tired of having a "fixer-upper" and a 7 year old house shouldn't BE a fixer-upper I don't think...
SaltySalticid - Job market in IL is awful. Wife and I both got great jobs in Plano so.....
DarlingBri - you don't think dry rot or possible gas issues are major? I'm afraid they'll just scratch the surface and find the problems go much, much deeper. I'm fine with fixing all cosmetic things, but worried about major defects that could cost tens or hundreds of thousands.
posted by arniec at 6:18 AM on April 8, 2021
The house we're selling was like you describe, we've had to put $20k in per year for a decade, and that's money we're not going to get out of the sale. We are really tired of having a "fixer-upper" and a 7 year old house shouldn't BE a fixer-upper I don't think...
SaltySalticid - Job market in IL is awful. Wife and I both got great jobs in Plano so.....
DarlingBri - you don't think dry rot or possible gas issues are major? I'm afraid they'll just scratch the surface and find the problems go much, much deeper. I'm fine with fixing all cosmetic things, but worried about major defects that could cost tens or hundreds of thousands.
posted by arniec at 6:18 AM on April 8, 2021
If the market is as hot as it seems now, then you should be able to find a buyer fairly quickly if you buy now and decide the problems are too big.
posted by kevinbelt at 6:20 AM on April 8, 2021
posted by kevinbelt at 6:20 AM on April 8, 2021
Hi. I am your seller. Not literally, but I am in a similar situation on the other side. I don't think I'm shady or stupid, but I could be wrong.
Here's the deal. Every house has issues. Every home inspection I've seen as a buyer and as a seller runs dozens to hundreds of pages, pointing out a ton of problems. Every one. Even brand new houses have issues, but especially if you're looking at houses 10+ years old, things aren't going to be perfect. Most experienced buyers know this. Only you can decide which items are true dealbreakers, but I see nothing in that list that I would consider a dealbreaker as a buyer if I loved the house and neighborhood (and if I didn't, I wouldn't make an offer in the first place). As a seller I expect buyers to understand this, and buyers who don't tend to be a headache over the entire course of the deal.
Selling a house is a business transaction. Netting the most cash is not an unreasonable goal for a business transaction, though personally I do balance cash vs. hassle. Doing a bunch of repairs for a buyer, especially on stuff that is very standard for the house of its age, decreases my cash return AND increases the hassle factor.
Even in a balanced market, unless I'm desperate, I'm not going to deal with a long list of repairs from a buyer. But especially now when I had a dozen offers to choose from, why would I want to deal with this?
It's not being a jerk or stupid or shady to want to just sell my house without a big hassle and make as much as I can from it.
posted by primethyme at 6:21 AM on April 8, 2021
Here's the deal. Every house has issues. Every home inspection I've seen as a buyer and as a seller runs dozens to hundreds of pages, pointing out a ton of problems. Every one. Even brand new houses have issues, but especially if you're looking at houses 10+ years old, things aren't going to be perfect. Most experienced buyers know this. Only you can decide which items are true dealbreakers, but I see nothing in that list that I would consider a dealbreaker as a buyer if I loved the house and neighborhood (and if I didn't, I wouldn't make an offer in the first place). As a seller I expect buyers to understand this, and buyers who don't tend to be a headache over the entire course of the deal.
Selling a house is a business transaction. Netting the most cash is not an unreasonable goal for a business transaction, though personally I do balance cash vs. hassle. Doing a bunch of repairs for a buyer, especially on stuff that is very standard for the house of its age, decreases my cash return AND increases the hassle factor.
Even in a balanced market, unless I'm desperate, I'm not going to deal with a long list of repairs from a buyer. But especially now when I had a dozen offers to choose from, why would I want to deal with this?
It's not being a jerk or stupid or shady to want to just sell my house without a big hassle and make as much as I can from it.
posted by primethyme at 6:21 AM on April 8, 2021
I’m on the side of wait till you find a house that won’t stress you out emotionally and financially. Life happens and you don’t want an albatross on your neck of external stressful situations come up.
posted by redlines at 6:22 AM on April 8, 2021
posted by redlines at 6:22 AM on April 8, 2021
Minus the possible plumbing issue, this sounds to me like all within the realm of 'stuff that happens when you're buying a house, I'd try to get the seller to fix one or two things most important to me but I wouldn't expect them to and it wouldn't be a dealbreaker if they wouldn't.'
I'd hold tight in your shoes and wait to see how the plumbing goes. During that wait, I'd think hard about which stressful thing I prefer - taking on the house I mostly love and being prepared to dump money into it to fix issues, or holding out for something else to pop up knowing it may take months but at the end of things I will have a house that doesn't need as much fixing. That's personal calculus and really up to you! For me, the uncertainty of searching is the worst and I'd rather have the house I know I like and be able to move ahead with the fixing than to spend another six months in limbo, but that's my own anxiety-vs-bank-balance calculation and won't necessarily be true for you.
posted by Stacey at 6:36 AM on April 8, 2021
I'd hold tight in your shoes and wait to see how the plumbing goes. During that wait, I'd think hard about which stressful thing I prefer - taking on the house I mostly love and being prepared to dump money into it to fix issues, or holding out for something else to pop up knowing it may take months but at the end of things I will have a house that doesn't need as much fixing. That's personal calculus and really up to you! For me, the uncertainty of searching is the worst and I'd rather have the house I know I like and be able to move ahead with the fixing than to spend another six months in limbo, but that's my own anxiety-vs-bank-balance calculation and won't necessarily be true for you.
posted by Stacey at 6:36 AM on April 8, 2021
We are really tired of having a "fixer-upper" and a 7 year old house shouldn't BE a fixer-upper I don't think
You don't want this house, is what I'm reading here.
I don't think the sellers are at all shady except maybe the "we didn't notice the water damage" - but if it's that visible, I think it kind of falls in the 'things you can see when you walk around' category. (We bought a house with a visibly aging roof, it was kind of the same thing.)
posted by warriorqueen at 6:38 AM on April 8, 2021
You don't want this house, is what I'm reading here.
I don't think the sellers are at all shady except maybe the "we didn't notice the water damage" - but if it's that visible, I think it kind of falls in the 'things you can see when you walk around' category. (We bought a house with a visibly aging roof, it was kind of the same thing.)
posted by warriorqueen at 6:38 AM on April 8, 2021
I live in Austin and I'm telling you right now, if I wanted to sell, I wouldn't do a damn thing to my house, I'd think seriously about not even tidying up. The seller's market is THAT strong right now. My neighbor's house got 28 bids in 7 hours. If I chose your bid and you threatened to walk over issues, my response would likely be "ok" because the next person in line may give me slightly less money for those issues but we can probably sign papers tomorrow.
We have also bought and sold before and it was very very different, we bought this house in a "hot" sellers market and tried to be very accommodating as buyers, but this is pure insanity.
So no, I don't think they are being shady or stupid. I think they are looking around and realizing they don't need you as much as you need them.
My advice is decide if you still want this house with all the detail you now have about it but don't expect them to do anything, all fixes will be on you.
posted by magnetsphere at 7:11 AM on April 8, 2021
We have also bought and sold before and it was very very different, we bought this house in a "hot" sellers market and tried to be very accommodating as buyers, but this is pure insanity.
So no, I don't think they are being shady or stupid. I think they are looking around and realizing they don't need you as much as you need them.
My advice is decide if you still want this house with all the detail you now have about it but don't expect them to do anything, all fixes will be on you.
posted by magnetsphere at 7:11 AM on April 8, 2021
Shady maybe, stupid, no. They have you close to buying the house. The water damage to the door bothers me. How is it that there is damage to the door but nothing else? Either they repaired or covered up other damage. The loose bricks on the window sill would bother me too if it were in the Northeast. Could be from water behind or around the window and a freeze. Not sure that Plano has that or how much water/rain you get there.
What are your alternatives to buying this house? What is the seller's alternatives to selling you the house? Do you think there are others waiting to buy if you drop out? Do you think you dropping out because of inspection issues will affect their ability to sell to the next person?
But, to me, all this is moot. The issue is will you ever be comfortable happy there? Will you always feel you got taken? Buying a house for some can be a very emotional issue. For me, I have bought and sold 4 houses. It is strictly a financial transaction to me and as such, I looked for houses that were in 'move-in' condition. Minor repairs that will crop up no matter who owns the house were part of the cost of owning a home. I would walk from this house because of the unknown with the water damage. YMMV.
posted by AugustWest at 7:16 AM on April 8, 2021
What are your alternatives to buying this house? What is the seller's alternatives to selling you the house? Do you think there are others waiting to buy if you drop out? Do you think you dropping out because of inspection issues will affect their ability to sell to the next person?
But, to me, all this is moot. The issue is will you ever be comfortable happy there? Will you always feel you got taken? Buying a house for some can be a very emotional issue. For me, I have bought and sold 4 houses. It is strictly a financial transaction to me and as such, I looked for houses that were in 'move-in' condition. Minor repairs that will crop up no matter who owns the house were part of the cost of owning a home. I would walk from this house because of the unknown with the water damage. YMMV.
posted by AugustWest at 7:16 AM on April 8, 2021
a 7 year old house shouldn't BE a fixer-upper I don't think...
Houses of that shouldn't be fixer-uppers, but they are because... well, because they were built for a slightly less crazy version of the market you're dealing with now. It's "WE BUY ANY HOUSE" signs but with highball offers.
This is absurd, but I'll repeat what kevinbelt said upthread: if you did uncover what you'd consider major defects, you could probably still sell it on to someone who is comfortable making the fixes (for some definition of "fix") or will just pass the parcel again.
posted by holgate at 7:25 AM on April 8, 2021
Houses of that shouldn't be fixer-uppers, but they are because... well, because they were built for a slightly less crazy version of the market you're dealing with now. It's "WE BUY ANY HOUSE" signs but with highball offers.
This is absurd, but I'll repeat what kevinbelt said upthread: if you did uncover what you'd consider major defects, you could probably still sell it on to someone who is comfortable making the fixes (for some definition of "fix") or will just pass the parcel again.
posted by holgate at 7:25 AM on April 8, 2021
I don't think that "seller fixes major issues" is part of the deal at this particular time, unless the issues are like gas leak, active termites, or open sewage. Maybe.
For the sellers, there's no upside to letting you extend the process. Other buyers will be more comfortable DIYing, contracting repairs, or just living with non-emergent issues.
In your place, I'd just take "plumbing/water problem" as a given and decide if that's something I can deal with. (I personally might bail over water, but took on a lot of other known and suspected issues with my current home.)
posted by mersen at 7:40 AM on April 8, 2021
For the sellers, there's no upside to letting you extend the process. Other buyers will be more comfortable DIYing, contracting repairs, or just living with non-emergent issues.
In your place, I'd just take "plumbing/water problem" as a given and decide if that's something I can deal with. (I personally might bail over water, but took on a lot of other known and suspected issues with my current home.)
posted by mersen at 7:40 AM on April 8, 2021
We bought a house in 2010 with a gas fireplace, which worked. We shut it off because the pilot burned gas 24/7 and the open flue made the whole place cold. The next year it didn't relight at the pilot so...we shut off the gas and left it off since. *shrug*
None of those would be actual deal-breakers in normal times, and these days I would just blow right past them and make the offer.
posted by wenestvedt at 7:47 AM on April 8, 2021
None of those would be actual deal-breakers in normal times, and these days I would just blow right past them and make the offer.
posted by wenestvedt at 7:47 AM on April 8, 2021
Every house in DC is sold "as-is" and buyers often waive inspection contingencies just to get in the door (our realtor advised us to do inspections before we made offers, when possible, so we weren't buying a very expensive pig in a poke). In a hot market you need to make your offer in consideration of how much maintenance you expect to do, but you can't expect a seller to do that maintenance for you. They're just going to move on to the next best offer.
If you really like the house, just assume you're going to have maintenance costs. That's what the market is now. If you're uncomfortable buying a house with known or unknown maintenance coming due, you're going to have a hard time buying a house at all.
posted by fedward at 8:43 AM on April 8, 2021
If you really like the house, just assume you're going to have maintenance costs. That's what the market is now. If you're uncomfortable buying a house with known or unknown maintenance coming due, you're going to have a hard time buying a house at all.
posted by fedward at 8:43 AM on April 8, 2021
but we LOVE the house, the neighborhood
If you love the neighborhood, buy the house, buy the house, buy the house. As others have noted, if it's too sucky to deal with later, you can always sell it. But a neighborhood you love? That, my friend, is magic. I say take the risk. If it doesn't work out, you are in the perfect location to scout future home sales in the area. Good luck!
posted by Bella Donna at 9:33 AM on April 8, 2021
If you love the neighborhood, buy the house, buy the house, buy the house. As others have noted, if it's too sucky to deal with later, you can always sell it. But a neighborhood you love? That, my friend, is magic. I say take the risk. If it doesn't work out, you are in the perfect location to scout future home sales in the area. Good luck!
posted by Bella Donna at 9:33 AM on April 8, 2021
Just sold a house in Austin. This seems completely normal to me.
We got 22 offers in the first 24 hours. Most offers came with a "no inspection" clause to sweeten the deal. If I were the sellers here I'd probably just hope you back out so I can sell it to someone else, because the market probably just went up $50k in the time I took to type this. I regret even staging the house; we should have just emptied it. I shouldn't have even painted. Fuckin' bonkers market.
posted by spikeleemajortomdickandharryconnickjrmints at 9:58 AM on April 8, 2021
We got 22 offers in the first 24 hours. Most offers came with a "no inspection" clause to sweeten the deal. If I were the sellers here I'd probably just hope you back out so I can sell it to someone else, because the market probably just went up $50k in the time I took to type this. I regret even staging the house; we should have just emptied it. I shouldn't have even painted. Fuckin' bonkers market.
posted by spikeleemajortomdickandharryconnickjrmints at 9:58 AM on April 8, 2021
We are in a similarly hot market and literally just lost out on one house because:
* when offers were due, we had one of the "top three" offers, so they came back to us (and the other two potential buyers) asking if we could do any better.
* at that point, we still had an inspection contingency, and we were told we were the only ones remaining in the pool who *did* have one.
* We looked hard at the inspection provided by the sellers in the disclosures, saw one mildly suspicious thing that was pretty much true of every house we've bid on, and decided that we would accept that level of risk. So we removed our inspection contingency, and made a request to bring in an inspector during escrow so that we could get independent confirmation of things needing to be fixed, and get a couple of weeks' head start on finding appropriate contractors in this very busy market. We would even sweeten our deal and go up to X+$25k! And shield the sellers from the results of the inspection so they didn't have to do anything!
* that request was apparently enough to get us dropped like a hot potato with prejudice, and I'm pretty sure the offer the sellers accepted was $10-$15k below our final offer, just because the other offers never had an inspection contingency in the first place and we were being "precious" about dropping ours.
In signing every offer we've made so far in our not-Austin-but-just-as-hot market, we basically agreed to take on EVERY SINGLE COST EVARRR. County transfer tax? Buyers' responsibility! City transfer tax? Also buyers' responsibility! Property tax payment for the first half of the year despite it being late April/early May before closing? You got it, our wallet! Updating fixtures to conserve water before occupancy, ensuring CO monitors and smoke alarms were installed before occupancy, I've lost track of how many additional fees and taxes and expenses we agreed to take on to make our offers sweet enough to the buyers. Asking sellers to take on any costs at all? Yes, in this particular bonkers market, that does make you "demon customers." Buyers have zero leverage, sorry. :(
Given this, we have adjusted our top bid down (and the list price range we're looking at) to reflect all of these additional expenses, plus the likelihood we will have to do five digits of repair work in the first year to any place we bid on no matter what. Sigh.
For context, Mr. Kouti bought a condo in an old Victorian back in 2002; we eventually sold it and went back to renting for a few years, but what I can tell you based on comparing our concurrent 2021 experiences to his experience back then is that "the routine" does not exist in this hot of a market.
posted by Pandora Kouti at 10:19 AM on April 8, 2021
* when offers were due, we had one of the "top three" offers, so they came back to us (and the other two potential buyers) asking if we could do any better.
* at that point, we still had an inspection contingency, and we were told we were the only ones remaining in the pool who *did* have one.
* We looked hard at the inspection provided by the sellers in the disclosures, saw one mildly suspicious thing that was pretty much true of every house we've bid on, and decided that we would accept that level of risk. So we removed our inspection contingency, and made a request to bring in an inspector during escrow so that we could get independent confirmation of things needing to be fixed, and get a couple of weeks' head start on finding appropriate contractors in this very busy market. We would even sweeten our deal and go up to X+$25k! And shield the sellers from the results of the inspection so they didn't have to do anything!
* that request was apparently enough to get us dropped like a hot potato with prejudice, and I'm pretty sure the offer the sellers accepted was $10-$15k below our final offer, just because the other offers never had an inspection contingency in the first place and we were being "precious" about dropping ours.
In signing every offer we've made so far in our not-Austin-but-just-as-hot market, we basically agreed to take on EVERY SINGLE COST EVARRR. County transfer tax? Buyers' responsibility! City transfer tax? Also buyers' responsibility! Property tax payment for the first half of the year despite it being late April/early May before closing? You got it, our wallet! Updating fixtures to conserve water before occupancy, ensuring CO monitors and smoke alarms were installed before occupancy, I've lost track of how many additional fees and taxes and expenses we agreed to take on to make our offers sweet enough to the buyers. Asking sellers to take on any costs at all? Yes, in this particular bonkers market, that does make you "demon customers." Buyers have zero leverage, sorry. :(
Given this, we have adjusted our top bid down (and the list price range we're looking at) to reflect all of these additional expenses, plus the likelihood we will have to do five digits of repair work in the first year to any place we bid on no matter what. Sigh.
For context, Mr. Kouti bought a condo in an old Victorian back in 2002; we eventually sold it and went back to renting for a few years, but what I can tell you based on comparing our concurrent 2021 experiences to his experience back then is that "the routine" does not exist in this hot of a market.
posted by Pandora Kouti at 10:19 AM on April 8, 2021
I would personally only back out if the plumbing inspection identifies a major issue. I would not expect the sellers to fix any of the minor issues you named. You simply have no leverage due to how hot the market is.
posted by kinddieserzeit at 10:20 AM on April 8, 2021
posted by kinddieserzeit at 10:20 AM on April 8, 2021
Based on my experience buying an older house last year, I would have expected your original inspector to find any active leaks from accessible plumbing fixtures (we had a few). I guess it's worth it to have a plumbing inspector if the sellers are allowing for it, but I would just temper your expectations about how conclusive that inspection could be, since they're not going to be tearing into walls.
posted by AndrewInDC at 10:48 AM on April 8, 2021
posted by AndrewInDC at 10:48 AM on April 8, 2021
Waiving all contingencies (and putting down a LOT more earnest money than you put down) is pretty standard in hot markets.
My guess is that the market was pretty warm in 2014 / some zoning change happened that allowed some new housing to be built, lots of low-quality houses got built (like the one you're looking at), and you're going to have to factor in the cost of repairs into your bids.
posted by batter_my_heart at 12:45 PM on April 8, 2021
My guess is that the market was pretty warm in 2014 / some zoning change happened that allowed some new housing to be built, lots of low-quality houses got built (like the one you're looking at), and you're going to have to factor in the cost of repairs into your bids.
posted by batter_my_heart at 12:45 PM on April 8, 2021
Your orientation about how things work doesn't match the market you're in right now. Sellers in a market like this can get all-cash offers for over their asking and with an as-is approach to any repairs. If you want this house, you'll have to jump on it now with no stipulations. It's a gamble, but in a case like this, if there are no foundation issues, I'd buy. Yes, you'll have to do your own repairs and it might feel like a money pit, but that's what happens in a market like this. If you've been looking for months and this is the only place that's fit your needs and you still have an option to enter the contract to buy, you should probably buy it and know that you'll have a list of things to repair yourselves.
posted by quince at 1:33 PM on April 8, 2021
posted by quince at 1:33 PM on April 8, 2021
Having lIved in Texas where foundation issues are so common because of the clay soils, I would find the possible plumbing problems a very deep orange flag. I am a really cautious person when it comes to home buying and so far I've never been sorry about that. I'd stick to your guns on this if your gut says something is off, but I'd also be prepared to lose the house.
posted by WalkerWestridge at 1:54 PM on April 8, 2021
posted by WalkerWestridge at 1:54 PM on April 8, 2021
I get the feeling that you're already soured on the whole deal, and even if the plumbing inspection comes back good, you'll feel regret over something else. If you take this house, you will be kicking yourself for ignoring the signs any time an issue came up.
If you continue to look for houses in this market, I would consider setting aside part of your budget and assume that you will need it. If you don't need it, great. If you do, you were prepared. I personally wouldn't want the sellers to make any repairs anyway. I would want to choose the contractor instead of the seller who just wants to get it done quickly.
posted by jraz at 2:51 PM on April 8, 2021
If you continue to look for houses in this market, I would consider setting aside part of your budget and assume that you will need it. If you don't need it, great. If you do, you were prepared. I personally wouldn't want the sellers to make any repairs anyway. I would want to choose the contractor instead of the seller who just wants to get it done quickly.
posted by jraz at 2:51 PM on April 8, 2021
What does your realtor say? If they're experienced in the market, they'll be able to advise you what to do. In general, I think quince nails it: "Your orientation about how things work doesn't match the market you're in right now."
I'm not in Texas, but I've experienced an insane real estate market. Here's how it goes there:
1) see the house
2) get a "pre-inspection" done (basically a shorter inspection)
3) make an offer, all contingencies waived
4) get your offer rejected, repeat several times until
5) you buy the house as is, $150-300K over asking.
6) do what you will with the results of your pre-inspection
posted by purple_bird at 4:43 PM on April 8, 2021
I'm not in Texas, but I've experienced an insane real estate market. Here's how it goes there:
1) see the house
2) get a "pre-inspection" done (basically a shorter inspection)
3) make an offer, all contingencies waived
4) get your offer rejected, repeat several times until
5) you buy the house as is, $150-300K over asking.
6) do what you will with the results of your pre-inspection
posted by purple_bird at 4:43 PM on April 8, 2021
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The sellers don't care about selling a perfect house to you, they care about selling their house. Most sellers have somewhere to go, and need that money to get there.
I think you'll need to decide if you're going to take a chance, or walk and try to find another house.
You just don't have the leverage in a seller's market.
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:52 AM on April 8, 2021