Skillcrush vs Free resources + bootcamp (which?)
January 6, 2021 3:43 AM
Someone I know is interested in a late-career change to becoming a developer. She's hooked by Skillcrush's aesthetics and the delivery of their instruction, but questions the cost and isn't sure of the value that the portfolio plus career advice brings compared to alternatives. Snowflakes inside.
My friend is a Mexican national living in the UK, 40s, kids, variety of work experience mostly as a self-employed business owner and in government.
Skillcrush BIT course that she's considering: https://skillcrush.com/break-into-tech-bootcamp/
Skillcrush course reviews, mostly by people still doing the course rather than alumni: https://www.coursereport.com/schools/skillcrush
She's already read through this recent AskMe and found it helpful: https://ask.metafilter.com/345600/Looking-for-guidance-re-starting-new-career-as-a-coder
She's been thinking of this change for a while but now bounced off Codecademy. Whereas she completed the free Skillcrush intro and loved it. I kind of suspect that alone is enough to justify the price, but before taking the plunge, what other alternatives should she be considering?
I'm asking here because I don't have the experience to give very useful advice myself, although as far as I can see the "Break Into Tech" Skillcrush coding camp seems to be an especially well-put together MOOC with additional 1-to-1 support, and to fall somewhere between free online resources and what I understand to be a "typical" bootcamp, both in cost (a bit more than 1000 USD, so cheaper than most bootcamps but more expensive than free), and in terms of support, feedback on projects and a potential pipeline to employers. And bootcamps have the major advantage of peer networking. So I'm assuming that the main alternative isn't "exact Skillcrush competitor" but to do the basics for free and then to aim for a more formal bootcamp experience? Which are probably all virtual nowadays as well, right?
I think the question here is two-fold:
1) does the Skillcrush BIT course justify the price compared to alternatives, and how likely is it to lead directly into work in the field?
2) If a well-known bootcamp is going to be a prerequisite for actually breaking into tech - with or without Skillcrush, which could still be a good idea - what are good bootcamps, particularly in the UK (although Canada and the US might work), particularly for career-switching women?
Thanks in advance for any answers, and please be aware that I'll be linking her to this AskMe to read them!
My friend is a Mexican national living in the UK, 40s, kids, variety of work experience mostly as a self-employed business owner and in government.
Skillcrush BIT course that she's considering: https://skillcrush.com/break-into-tech-bootcamp/
Skillcrush course reviews, mostly by people still doing the course rather than alumni: https://www.coursereport.com/schools/skillcrush
She's already read through this recent AskMe and found it helpful: https://ask.metafilter.com/345600/Looking-for-guidance-re-starting-new-career-as-a-coder
She's been thinking of this change for a while but now bounced off Codecademy. Whereas she completed the free Skillcrush intro and loved it. I kind of suspect that alone is enough to justify the price, but before taking the plunge, what other alternatives should she be considering?
I'm asking here because I don't have the experience to give very useful advice myself, although as far as I can see the "Break Into Tech" Skillcrush coding camp seems to be an especially well-put together MOOC with additional 1-to-1 support, and to fall somewhere between free online resources and what I understand to be a "typical" bootcamp, both in cost (a bit more than 1000 USD, so cheaper than most bootcamps but more expensive than free), and in terms of support, feedback on projects and a potential pipeline to employers. And bootcamps have the major advantage of peer networking. So I'm assuming that the main alternative isn't "exact Skillcrush competitor" but to do the basics for free and then to aim for a more formal bootcamp experience? Which are probably all virtual nowadays as well, right?
I think the question here is two-fold:
1) does the Skillcrush BIT course justify the price compared to alternatives, and how likely is it to lead directly into work in the field?
2) If a well-known bootcamp is going to be a prerequisite for actually breaking into tech - with or without Skillcrush, which could still be a good idea - what are good bootcamps, particularly in the UK (although Canada and the US might work), particularly for career-switching women?
Thanks in advance for any answers, and please be aware that I'll be linking her to this AskMe to read them!
I am in a rather unique situation. I have been a coder before, but I'm 10 years out of date. In March 2020, I took out a loan for full-stack coding bootcamp in the US to the tune of 12K USD, and was in it for 3 months. I wouldn't say I am great at coding now, but I can handle my own. I can do programming problems. I wouldn't say I am great a interviews, but I am okay. I have a decent resume now, and know how to revise it. I've watched countless hours of career seminars and advice. I've taken a dozen Coursera classes on various topics.
As of today, I am STILL unemployed.
And believe me, I've applied all over the place, as a coder, as a writer, as a tech support guy. It could be that I am in a market saturated by great coders, so a mediocre one couldn't make it here. But I'm not ready to move yet.
It's not as rosy as one thinks. People may *say* they got jobs, but often it's with a placement firm who'll send you all over the place. Not sure about the UK equivalent, but I'd imagine they are not going to be THAT different.
posted by kschang at 10:08 AM on January 6, 2021
As of today, I am STILL unemployed.
And believe me, I've applied all over the place, as a coder, as a writer, as a tech support guy. It could be that I am in a market saturated by great coders, so a mediocre one couldn't make it here. But I'm not ready to move yet.
It's not as rosy as one thinks. People may *say* they got jobs, but often it's with a placement firm who'll send you all over the place. Not sure about the UK equivalent, but I'd imagine they are not going to be THAT different.
posted by kschang at 10:08 AM on January 6, 2021
I applaud the desire to make a career change, I applaud the ambition to pick up these skills, and I think programming is something almost anyone can do if given the right training and aspiration, but I am highly skeptical of these bootcamps. It's like telling someone that a 12 week wood-working class sets them up to "break into" structural engineering.
kschang is absolutely right that the promise of bootcamps is rarely delivered on. Many bootcamps started with money back guarantees unless you landed a job within 6 months, I don't know of any that still offer that. Also consider that companies pay hundreds of thousands of dollars a year for SWE talent and immense resources trying to find and attract it. If it could be taught in 3 months, they'd have spun up their own internal programs to convert non-SWE employees into programmers. (I did see people mentioning this in the other thread as something consultancies do but I've never seen it in a hardware or software product company).
That said, I do have a friend who attended a bootcamp and is now working as a SWE but his path wasn't easy and his first job out of bootcamp was... teaching for the bootcamp, which should raise all kinds of red flags. He's also the kind of guy who, while getting a Political Science degree, took differential equations and number theory for fun. So, your millage may vary.
Maybe I'm old-school, but reading through the linked ask thread I'm shocked that no one is suggesting starting with the fundamentals. Everyone wants a "get skilled fast" solution. If your friend wants to pivot, I personally would recommend at least taking a couple of intro CS/Programming classes before attending bootcamp. If you don't need the credits there are a number of universities that offer free audits of these classes online. Understanding the fundamentals and some of the theory behind what's happening will give them a framework for absorbing practical skills and make it more likely that they can apply what they learn in novel ways, rather than learning by rote and only being capable of regurgitation.
Good luck.
posted by lucasks at 11:28 AM on January 6, 2021
kschang is absolutely right that the promise of bootcamps is rarely delivered on. Many bootcamps started with money back guarantees unless you landed a job within 6 months, I don't know of any that still offer that. Also consider that companies pay hundreds of thousands of dollars a year for SWE talent and immense resources trying to find and attract it. If it could be taught in 3 months, they'd have spun up their own internal programs to convert non-SWE employees into programmers. (I did see people mentioning this in the other thread as something consultancies do but I've never seen it in a hardware or software product company).
That said, I do have a friend who attended a bootcamp and is now working as a SWE but his path wasn't easy and his first job out of bootcamp was... teaching for the bootcamp, which should raise all kinds of red flags. He's also the kind of guy who, while getting a Political Science degree, took differential equations and number theory for fun. So, your millage may vary.
Maybe I'm old-school, but reading through the linked ask thread I'm shocked that no one is suggesting starting with the fundamentals. Everyone wants a "get skilled fast" solution. If your friend wants to pivot, I personally would recommend at least taking a couple of intro CS/Programming classes before attending bootcamp. If you don't need the credits there are a number of universities that offer free audits of these classes online. Understanding the fundamentals and some of the theory behind what's happening will give them a framework for absorbing practical skills and make it more likely that they can apply what they learn in novel ways, rather than learning by rote and only being capable of regurgitation.
Good luck.
posted by lucasks at 11:28 AM on January 6, 2021
One more thing to note:
In my opinion, not all people are made to be coders. They can code in a pinch, but they may not THRIVE on it.
She needs to be SURE coding is what she wants before she plunks down the big money (like I did). There are other tech careers such as tech support and customer service to data science, devOps, even sales support / customer success that may be easier to jump into.
posted by kschang at 12:57 PM on January 6, 2021
In my opinion, not all people are made to be coders. They can code in a pinch, but they may not THRIVE on it.
She needs to be SURE coding is what she wants before she plunks down the big money (like I did). There are other tech careers such as tech support and customer service to data science, devOps, even sales support / customer success that may be easier to jump into.
posted by kschang at 12:57 PM on January 6, 2021
Just as a counterpoint to the above, I know someone who did a coding bootcamp at Flatiron School in London, after university (where they didn’t study anything computer related). They got an actual job with an actual company writing actual code and have been there well over a year.
I have no idea if it’s a good job, or if the company will survive all of this, or if the course was good. I’m wary of bootcamps, being an old school self-taught coder (from when it was relatively easy to learn it yourself). But, apparently, they can work for some people, some of the time.
posted by fabius at 5:29 AM on January 7, 2021
I have no idea if it’s a good job, or if the company will survive all of this, or if the course was good. I’m wary of bootcamps, being an old school self-taught coder (from when it was relatively easy to learn it yourself). But, apparently, they can work for some people, some of the time.
posted by fabius at 5:29 AM on January 7, 2021
i'm not a developer but have considered going to a bootcamp and read a lot about a lot of them. I don't think anyone should listen to the naysayers.. some will thrive and some will not, but there does seem to be something of a baby in with the bathwater when it comes to bootcamps. Just one random person-on-the-internet's opinion.
posted by elgee at 8:35 PM on January 7, 2021
posted by elgee at 8:35 PM on January 7, 2021
« Older Can you translate this old postcard from german to... | Self-help books for adolescents? Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by terretu at 6:53 AM on January 6, 2021