Who gets to stereotype?

June 10, 2020 6:35 PM

Let's say I was born and raised in Country X. Recently in a group conversation, an acquaintance who is Xian-American and who has been to X three times in their life said something disparaging and stereotyping about X and justified it, saying something like "X is sooooooo backwards, I know this to be true because I'm Xian." How do I respond in a situation like this?

I'm not trying to prove who's more genuinely Xian but this bothered me because I've heard similar knee-jerk stereotypical remarks from so many people already and it does not need to be reinforced and justified. This is not the first time I heard negative (and honestly, somewhat ignorant) remarks about X from this person so I'm wondering how I can respond in a diplomatic manner in the future?

posted by Sparkling Natural Mineral Water to Human Relations (18 answers total)

“That hasn’t been my experience,” then turn away.
posted by zadcat at 6:46 PM on June 10, 2020

It sounds like they’re trying to distance themselves from their background (or maybe they just had a different experience to X than you did and genuinely believe what they’re saying). They’re entitled to have their own thoughts. I mean if you want to engage and have a whole argument about this, go for it but I don’t think they want to be convinced, I think they’re more interested in signalling this negative viewpoint of their homeland before someone else does first.

The most I’d do is look at them, completely deadpan and just say in a monotone,
“Yes. You’re so right. We’re all backward in X. Every single one of us.” And just call attention to how unbelievably rude they’re being.
posted by Jubey at 6:58 PM on June 10, 2020

“No way! I’m from there, mate.” Unless this person is your boss you shouldn’t tiptoe around.
posted by michaelh at 7:04 PM on June 10, 2020

My parents were from Pakistan (well not really but it's complicated) but I was born and grew up in Canada. I visited Pakistan a couple of times when I was a kid. And yeah I've got a low opinion of the country and the people running it. On one level I know it is a big country (5 times the population of Canada) and that my exposure to it has been very limited and skewed but if the country came up in conversation I'd be hard pressed to say something good about it.

Probably the most effective way to stop me from talking smack about Pakistan (not that I have, I usually keep my negative opinions to myself) would be to mention that my knowledge of the country is really limited and that I should listen more and speak less about it. A more direct way would be to say something like "I get enough uninformed opinions about Country X from the people here, I don't need them from you too".
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 7:11 PM on June 10, 2020

If you can legitimately say, "Well, I grew up in Pakistan and my experience wasn't like that," I think that should reasonably trump anyone who went to Pakistan three times's ah, level of expertise on any subject, and a somewhat sane person would take the hint and shut up after that. Of course, I don't know if you are dealing with a somewhat sane person on this topic or not....

But I can certainly think of remarks I've heard out of Xtians saying, "I'm Xtian, I can say that" and since I'm a white girl, I know better than to say a damn thing about it. I wouldn't have a leg to stand on in an argument like that, but it sounds like you would and therefore you might have better odds.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:18 PM on June 10, 2020

Is one of you coming from an expat background (because you don’t identify as Xian, but rather having been born and raised in X?) and one of you coming from an immigrant or diaspora background (they identify as Xian-American?)?

Both of those experiences are valid but they do differ, sometimes quite drastically; perhaps your friend is referring to something specific in their experience but is just using shorthand to convey it? I like the ideas to approach with curiosity by asking more about their experiences or sharing your own in a connection-building way.
posted by stellaluna at 8:35 PM on June 10, 2020

I usually stick with "that hasn't been my experience at all. Maybe we've been to different places."
posted by Lady Li at 8:39 PM on June 10, 2020

Immigrants often seem to assume that nothing has changed in the old country since they left. (Maybe this only applies to specific generations, before modern communications and travel made it easier to keep in touch.) It can result in some weird traditions and ideas continuing long after folks 'back home' have moved on. If you want to call them out on it, I would remind them of this with a little sarcasm. "When were you last in X? It's been a long time since we [backwards thing]. Do you think we [obviously outdated idea] too?" Maybe include a joke if you're trying to let them save face, "Why, we even have VCRs nowadays!"
posted by yeahlikethat at 8:43 PM on June 10, 2020

If you belong to a significant racial minority in country X, your experience is relevant to those conversations. If you're white, born and raised in country X as an expat you are more like third-culture kids because of white privilege internationally. I can only think of a handful of countries - Zimbabwe maybe? Guam? where a white born-and-raised minority is of any relevance.

I'm white, born and raised in Singapore and I hear a lot of casually racist stuff about Singapore from both Singaporeans and other Asians. I can't contradict their direct lived experience, but the vast majority of the casually racist stuff is not from their direct experience, just stereotypes and what they've heard or read. I usually counter with either direct experience if applicable (rarely - the white born-and-raised experience in Asia is rare and a very weird intersection of privilege and racial stereotypes, and so irrelevant for most racial issues) or saying "Hmm, I've read/heard xyz instead." Saying "That's not my experience" is probably best unless it's someone who seems actually interested in a discussion.
posted by dorothyisunderwood at 10:26 PM on June 10, 2020

One thing I've noticed is that immigrants often trace their roots back to a less privileged background, so their family in the old country may indeed seem backwards. At this point it's been discussed endlessly that most Italian Americans come from Southern Italy, and imagine Italy, the seventh richest country in the world, is "Italy", the empty villages in the South. So Italian American food has little to do with the thousands of different recipes from all the Italian regions.
When I was young, many immigrants to this country were economic immigrants from Anatolia. Often they were illiterate and their project was to build a farm and raise sheep when they had saved enough by working in factories. Their children grew up in a completely different culture and yes, they saw Anatolia and Turkey as backwards places. At one time, I came to know a group of political refugees from Anatolia, and they had a completely different mindset, were highly educated and creative, and were very frustrated (like you) that most Danes thought all people from the region were illiterate shepherds, including the Kurdish-Danes and Turkish-Danes they met here. We went to see movies they'd made, read books they'd written, visited art exhibitions. It broadened my mind a lot.
I digress. I'm just saying that it may be true in their experience, even as it isn't objectively true, and it's kind of a project to make them see it differently. It may be your project, and it may not be. If you want to make it your project, maybe engage others in it. Instead of confronting the one person, invite a whole group of friends to a cultural night (when you can), where you demonstrate some of the contemporary wonders of X.
posted by mumimor at 2:27 AM on June 11, 2020

I grew up in South Asia and emigrated to the UK when I was 18. I have had many interactions like this, where someone who hasn't grown up in my country but who may have visited a handful of times, says authoritatively that it's really backward, illiberal, superstitious etc. I always say, "Well, I grew up there, and that wasn't my experience" or words to that effect.

For me I need to always keep in mind that there are many versions of one country depending on which part of society fate has decided to plonk you. Many people in the UK whose parents come from the same country as me have a less privileged background than I did. This is particularly true of those whose parents moved here before they were born. They mostly came from less prosperous parts of the country. And therefore what they are saying about the country might be absolutely accurate to their parents' experience - that it's backwards, there's no running water, everyone is really religious etc.

I lived in a high-society bubble and I was wildly privileged. So, yes, my experience of growing up was very cosmopolitan, not particularly conservative, everyone in my family was really progressive and highly educated, etc, and while that is the reality of my experience, it is simply an accident of fate. I would be a fool to say that this is true of the majority of people in my country and I cannot really take it too much to heart when I hear people talking about the opposite when it is accurate to their experience. I'm not saying you're doing this, but just in case it speaks to you, or anyone reading this.
posted by unicorn chaser at 4:09 AM on June 11, 2020

You say this person has maybe been to X three times in their life, which makes me imagine they are of Xian extraction but/and are culturally American. I wonder if maybe they have been the target of racism or other prejudice, and have developed a hard exterior of agreeing with it so as to distance themself from the place in other American eyes. It reminds me of a defense mechanism I hear of immigrants employing, in which they advocate for shutting the door behind themselves, basically.

I like “that hasn’t been my experience.” It pushes back, but doesn’t escalate. I think there is something ugly here, but I think the ugliness may speak to tender/raw feelings of self underneath, and so I think it wiser to respond with a foundation of compassion. Even though my first response on hearing it would probably (frankly) be to take offense.
posted by eirias at 4:42 AM on June 11, 2020

I'm with the other votes that I call it out and don't make light of it--I don't think adding anything that reinforces a stereotype (e.g., "We have TV now!") is helpful (no offense intended to the suggestion above). I do think it is proactive and good for the world to counter stereotypes about people (which are generally offensive and racist/ethnicist/sexist).

I say something like, "Well, that's definitely a common conception but not my experience as an Xian." I might also add a piece of data that refutes the stereotype. Depending on context, I may also challenge the belief more and say, "I'm Xian, I'm definitely not like that nor are my friends and family."

Another way to think of this that might be helpful would be to turn it around on the person who is Xian-American and ask what they would think if they were abroad and someone made the same stereotype about them as an American. Probably they aren't a gun-toting Trump voter living in a McMansion, but many people outside of the US might assume that's true for all USians.
posted by stillmoving at 4:45 AM on June 11, 2020

"And what, you’ve been there three times?"

...which is basically the same thing that I would say to anybody who attempted to pass judgment on a country based on a few visits.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 7:09 AM on June 11, 2020

I parry something like this with stressing that they aren’t Xian really.
“I can say this because I’m Xian!”
“::confused look:: I thought you were from California!” / “really?! You hold a Xian passport? What are you doing stuck in this place?” / “You’re no Xian to me if you say something like this!” (said jokingly, mostly).

While I have not experienced Xian-Americans expressing these views about my country X, for others, who may or may not have visited, and “backward” just means the lack of economic opportunity, I have a “well, X is a very poor country” shrug response to this. Depending on my mood, this might range from “Trash pickup is surprisingly difficult and expensive to organize if you don’t have necessary infrastructure already developed!” to “Yes, having been exploited for our natural resources for 400 years by A,B,C leaves very little money lying around for … “

However, if “backward” refers to the culture of X, then, depending on what the subject is, saying something along the lines of “Well, not everywhere is like the US” or “Grasshoppers are actually really yummy!” has worked for me. Also, there is no need to be unnecessarily rah-rah-patriotic. Sometimes the speaker might have a valid point (talking about for example treatment of minorities or women, depending on the value of X). In this case, saying something like “yeah, we’ve been working on this, but it’s hard to undo 2000 years of culture such a short time” seems appropriate. I do tend to stress that “backward” is a strong word and maybe they should temper their language.
posted by Dotty at 7:28 AM on June 11, 2020

Ibram X. Kendi addresses some of this in "How to Be an Antiracist." Specifically, he talks about how people may internalize racist ideas about themselves that a colonizing presence have perpetuated. I don't know how open this person would be to a discussion like this, but if you can get to the root of where these "backwards" ideas come from, who benefits from perpetuating this idea, you might be able to show them that there's a reason these ideas exists and that they are racist. You could invite them to reshape the way they think about the people of this country and to understand the reasons their thinking has been purposefully molded to disparage them.
posted by LKWorking at 7:55 AM on June 11, 2020

The reason a lot of us are *-Americans in the first place, is because someone had to get up and leave their homeland in middle of the night in order to escape being killed/tortured/imprisoned/etc. I don't know you or what country you are referencing, but for me specifically, if someone came up and said "things were actually great back then!" in reference to when my family had to leave, I would strongly, angrily, and publicly, tell you to go fuck yourself.
posted by sideshow at 5:30 PM on June 11, 2020

This person might be coming from an experience of hurt. Maybe the few times they went to X, they were questioned or harassed about their identity, lifestyle, or preferences (this happens with me a lot in my country, for example, more than in the city where I live, plus it hurts more too). Compassion is key. But maybe they are just a jerk! In which case, I would disengage.
posted by plant or animal at 8:06 AM on June 17, 2020