I'm going to (finally!) move to the East Coast!

March 29, 2020 10:54 AM

After living abroad for several years, you spent 27 months in Minneapolis. There you really learned what you like and don't like in an America city. Now you're in Chicago and are looking at moving East later in the year...primarily DC, Philly, Boston, and NYC...but are open to other options. Based on what appeals to you in a city, what would be some of the major differences between each?

I loved living in Minneapolis. It was pretty much my ideal version of a city, but I think I ultimately outgrew it...and of course it's insanely cold! I don't really Chicago. And while the possibility certainly exists that it'll really grow on me, I'm prepared to move on sooner than later. I lived abroad in a few very large countries, but Chicago is the biggest city I've lived in here. There are a few mid-size cities that certainly appeal to me, but I suppose my only complaint about Minneapolis was that it got too small for me, and that would most likely be the case in the other mid-size cities.

For this reason, I'm really just looking at DC, Philly, Boston, and NYC. Through the job I moved to Chicago for, I have the option to potentially transfer to Boston or New York, but that requires waiting a certain amount of time and of course is not a given. But this is the highest paying job I've had, however I've always found jobs easily. For the purposes of this question, assume I'm making decision without a job being a factor at the moment.

Value:

-Walkability
-Great nightlife in multiple areas
-Well run transit system
-City with good leadership and has its shit together
-Easy to get around in
-Variety of urban residential neighborhoods

I'm a 30 year old single heterosexual male who will continue to live car-free, so the first two things are huge factors. Weather isn't really a issue since I lived in Minnesota. The only thing that I came away with not liking about Minneapolis was that it wasn't big enough to not get bored in and that there weren't a lot of transplants. For reference, I've spent 8 months total in NYC and 5 in DC...but have never been to Philly or Boston, so am flying totally blind there. I'm mainly looking to get idea about the pros and cons based on what I'm said I'm into.

I loved how compact Minneapolis is at 57 square miles. I've always appreciated that about Boston...as it seems to be the smallest major city in the US in terms of land area outside of SF. I don't necessarily need to live in a compact city, but it's something I've come to like.

I currently live in Wicker Park, and lived in the Uptown area of Minneapolis, both of which I think are similar areas. It's nice to live in a walkable, vibrant residential neighborhood that has plenty of restaurants and nightlife while not being far from Downtown. I'm not sure what those areas are in Philly and DC.

I've actually heard many good things about Philadelphia, and it's probably the most comparable to where I've lived before cost of living wise...at least in the US. And the only thing I've heard about Boston is that it's less transient and the nightlife isn't as good as these other cities...but those may or may not be true.

Let me know if there's any important details I left out. But I like to think I have a pretty good idea of what life in NYC and DC looks like...but less so clear on Philly and Boston. So if you are able to provide a good rundown on what the difference is between life in these cities, I'd really appreciate it! I was initially only looking into NYC, but obviously price does come into effect, so I'm weighing that too.

Thanks!

posted by signondiego to Travel & Transportation (26 answers total)

I’m from Boston and have lived in NYC for awhile.

Boston is very walkable and I think the public transit is very solid. Public transit doesn’t come even close to running late nights, but nightlife is so sleepy in Boston that I don’t think it matters much. If a bustling nightlife is one of your big wants, Boston is not the place for you.

One thing Boston and NYC have in common is that people do come and go a lot. The number of academic jobs in Boston mean that a lot of people are there on a temporary basis, and in my experience people tend to leave NYC as soon as they start having kids.

I love Boston but it’s beckme absurdly expensive and I’m not sure it would be worth it to you. It has a lot to offer, but it doesn’t offer some of the things that seem really important to you.
posted by cakelite at 11:05 AM on March 29, 2020 [2 favorites]

NYC plays bigger than Philly or Boston. The difference in difficulty driving from the edge to the center is significant. Rivers and bridges are only partially responsible. Manhattan is impossible for anyone with difficulty walking. With respect to the arts, only NYC is NYC.

Philly climate is noticeably more temperate than Boston.

Personally, I'd choose Philly, or Providence, RI, but I think that's mostly due to my own history.
posted by SemiSalt at 11:07 AM on March 29, 2020

Boston seems pretty provincial to me. People disagree with me, but they’re usually native New Englanders who are reflexively defensive of their homeland. Which is to say, pretty provincial.

I’ve always liked Philly, but I don’t have a lot of deep experience with it.
posted by kevinbelt at 11:39 AM on March 29, 2020 [2 favorites]

I'm a New Yorker who moved from Minneapolis (6 yrs) to Philadelphia (2 yrs) and loved it. I lived in South Philly. It's got a wonderful small density - a lot of neighborhoods are small but dense, very walkable and bikeable. Lots of great food art and music, and a strong civicmindedness, great dynamic young progressive civic leaders doing important things in the city. I found the scale of Philadelphia to be really nice - plus housing is a lot more affordable, so everything is a bit more comfortable all around. It's a lot more of a city than Minneapolis; it's a lot more of a humane one than NYC. Happy to chat further about it if you MeMail me.
posted by entropone at 11:50 AM on March 29, 2020 [3 favorites]

On that note philly feels provincial to me compared to NYC and even DC. Job market, to me as someone not in healthcare or education (the city's strengths), not great in Philly either.
posted by shaademaan at 11:50 AM on March 29, 2020 [1 favorite]

I think a lot of this is going to be neighborhood dependent, even moreso than city dependent. I grew up right outside DC and have lived as an adult in Philly and NYC. I'll let someone more knowledgeable about the current state of DC weigh in there, as my memories from the 1990s and early 2000s are well out of date. I will say that traffic there, which was always bad, is now straight-up horrendous, and Metro is possibly one of the worst-funded transit systems in the world.

I found NYC both snobbish and surprisingly provincial (that New Yorker cover is on the nose) and really disliked my time there. It's a love-it-or-hate-it city; I hated it and continue to hate it. I had actually written up this whole long comment about all the reasons NYC sucks but it was really just venting about the specific neighborhood I lived in, so I deleted it. By contrast, a good friend lived in a different neighborhood that had everything I would have wanted (bookstores/thrift stores, access to green space, not just one but TWO grocers, multiple transit options) -- and her rent was, predictably, 3 times mine.

By contrast, I loved Philadelphia, because after my NYC experience, I was really picky about the type of neighborhood I wanted to live in. It's relatively more affordable than NYC (and DC for that matter), so it wasn't hard to find what I wanted within my budget. I also found it to be easier to make friends outside of work in Philly compared to anywhere else I've lived as an adult. Transit in Center City is fine-to-meh, but Regional Rail is a bigger challenge (one of my coworkers used to call it Regional Fail). If you live in or close to CC, it's easy to be car-free (I was) but more suburban neighborhoods are definitely car-centric.

Feel free to memail me for specifics on neighborhoods in any of those places.
posted by basalganglia at 11:51 AM on March 29, 2020 [2 favorites]

I often strongly recommend folks consider Philly, and it might be a good fit for you. My husband, staying in Philly basically for the first time last summer, was a convert: he pronounced it "the nicest city in America". It certainly is walkable: it's at least as dense as many parts of NYC, and you can walk from one side of the main core to the other in 40ish minutes. In some ways, the smaller size makes it more walkable than NYC, as everything you might need is packed into a smaller area. Lots of the sort of mixed-use developments that urbanites like (tons of coffee shops within a 5-minute walk of my place downtown, for instance). Rapidly expanding bike transport system. Neighborhoods that have very distinctive feels within easy walk of each other. And of course aesthetic taste is personal, but many people find it very beautiful. Here's Camac Street and Quince Street, in super cute Wash West, about half a mile from City Hall and within easy walking distance of at least four grocery stores. (I would in fact strongly recommend Wash West to you.) I think the restaurants and nightlife are decent, especially in Wash West (can't really comment on elsewhere). I've read a number of pieces on chefs from NYC who have resettled in Philly and opened restaurants (e.g.). It's also cheap, by East Coast standards. Much much much cheaper than NYC, and probably 1/3-1/2 the price of property in comparable areas of Boston. Philly's pricing is probably more similar to Chicago, from what I've seen of the latter city. I looked into buying in Boston, but for the same amount of money as what I paid in Philly, I couldn't get anything remotely near the downtown, and in ugly and unwalkable locations. If you have under a million to spend on a place, and you want at least two bedrooms in a walkable neighborhood in/near downtown (and especially if you want a rowhouse rather than an apartment), I think you're going to be happier in Philly than Boston. Boston is possibly my favorite city in America, but I wouldn't want to settle there if I didn't have a million or a million and a half. The prices of Philly property are rising, however, and outside money has come in for developments that are currently transforming the downtown (especially Midtown Village and the 30th Street area).

The other items on your wishlist are more iffy. Good transit system? Philly has two subway lines and some buses, and is okay but not wonderful. The walkability is the key, not the transit system (I believe all of my tenants are carless by choice, and have no problem walking everywhere, but you want to pick your location within Philly wisely.) City with good leadership that has it's shit together? Haha. Philly is corrupt and a bit of a hot mess. Other cities may or may not be better, I'm not sure. Philly's population is also a bit more local and static than Boston's: in Boston, there are many educated people who cycle through for grad school, medical residencies, etc., and then are gone in a few years; in Philly, you'll meet more folks who grew up there and stayed (although there are also a fair amount of transplants). Not sure which is preferable, but it's something to bear in mind.

I have lived in both Philly and Boston, and visited NYC several times. Philly and Boston are in many ways similar cities. Honestly my slight preference is for Boston if I had infinite amounts of money - I think it is a bit more beautiful - but at comparable price points I would take what is on offer in Philly. Philly is a bit more local, a bit more gritty, a bit less shiny. (I also think Philly weather is a bit better than Boston (warmer and sunnier): in my experience Boston gets more clouds and precipitation.) I can't comment on DC (I believe it's also very nice, but more expensive?). NYC is in a different league altogether, both in terms of cost and in terms of size. Honestly, I would recommend you come check out these cities, as there's no replacement for boots on the ground when you're trying to make this kind of decision. If you'd like a recommendation for a very charming and reasonably-priced AirBnB in Wash West, send me a message (it's an AirBnB I've stayed in personally and I think it gives one a good sense of the neighborhood: I have no connection financially or personally to the host).
posted by ClaireBear at 11:51 AM on March 29, 2020 [2 favorites]

Boston has gotten hideously expensive (I think the median rent on a 1BR is now $2500) and the public transportation pretty much stops at midnight, so that contributes a lot to the provincial feel others have mentioned.

Just spitballing here, but I have a couple of friends who absolutely love Pittsburgh. Given it a thought?
posted by TwoStride at 11:56 AM on March 29, 2020 [4 favorites]

I'm very fond of Boston, but it's sleepier overall, and, in my experience, if you're a single adult in your 30s and up not associated with one of the big institutions, it's harder to get a social life going. (A lot of people decamp for the suburbs when they have kids.) It's also the coldest on your list. It's not much less expensive than NYC. Food scene is getting ever-better; they even have H-Marts now. The nightlife is very student-oriented, which may or may not be to your taste. You can get by without a car, but it's more challenging than in NYC.

I haven't lived in Philadelphia, but used to have to visit with some frequency. If I had to live in an East Coast big city but had a constrained budget, I'd probably pick Philly. Definitely the most affordable of the lot, but with a surprisingly good food scene, okay-ish transit, climate's tolerable.

DC is a one-game town, and NW is filled with people who do not give a crap about the town as a city where people make their lives.

NYC is the bright center of the galaxy, etc., but it's not for everyone. You do have to have a high tolerance for the daily sensory input, and I mean year in and year out, it never stops, not even quite in pandemic time. I've lived in NYC off and on for 15+ years, never had a car, and managed fine. Nightlife, restaurants, walkability...all yes, of course.
posted by praemunire at 11:58 AM on March 29, 2020 [2 favorites]

As folks above have hinted, you might want to think about budget as a key factor in making your decision. You can get a small one-bedroom apartment in downtown Philly for $1200-1500/month. I think it's at least $2000/month in Boston for something similar, if not significantly more. The difference in property prices is comparable. If I were choosing an East Coast city in which to settle, I would definitely consider money as a key factor unless I were wealthy enough not to have to think about it.
posted by ClaireBear at 12:03 PM on March 29, 2020

Response by poster: Just to chime in, some of the responses here kind of confirm the brief knowledge I had of Boston before: just about as expensive as NYC without offering as much. Nightlife is pretty important to me, so if Boston is really that much of a sleepy town compared to these other cities. Appreciate the specific neighborhood recs as well, thanks. I did see one comment talk about not as many transplants in Philadelphia, which is also an important factor for me, but I have to think it's more of a welcoming place to outsiders than Minneapolis or another random smaller city.
posted by signondiego at 12:16 PM on March 29, 2020

Yeah, Philly sounds like it might be a good fit for you! I am a die-hard native New Yorker and I love it here and you should definitely check it out if you have the budget, but I think you can get a lot of the NYC benefits in Philly for less of the cost. I do know a bunch of transplants who are happily in Philly, fwiw. I personally love West Philly a lot, especially the area around Clark Park, which is a lovely park with a farmers' market near where all the trolley lines converge.

I would recommend DC and Boston much less based on the time I have spent there. (My best friends lived in Cambridge/Somerville/Watertown for a while; my sister is in DC. Boston seems more provincial and quiet to me; my sister's neighborhood in DC is lovely but she pays more than I do to live in NYC and does not have as active of a social life.)
posted by ferret branca at 12:30 PM on March 29, 2020

The difference in feel between DC and NYC is huge. I only lived in DC for a few months some years ago and I felt like I was in a suburb compared to New York. NYC is kind of the yardstick all other cities are measured by, I think you want to live there. And not sound crass, but the ratio of single hetero women to single hetero men is favorable if you are looking to date a bunch or find your true love.
posted by vrakatar at 12:49 PM on March 29, 2020

One last thing. I want to temper my comment above on Philly's nightlife, especially as you have reemphasized below the fold how important nightlife is to you. When I said that Philly's nightlife is good, I was mostly talking about fancy restaurants and that sort of thing. (In fact, I don't actually frequent them myself, but it's the sort of buzz that pops up in the papers and the business journal.) I was also talking about the fact that if you walk through Philly's Wash West on a warm evening, you see lots of people in neighborhood wine bars, sitting in the outside seating of local pubs, etc. But since I don't know exactly what you mean by good nightlife, and I also know less about the social aspects of other Philly neighborhoods, upon reflection I'm hesitant to make too strong a pronouncement about whether it would suit you, so I would advise heading to Philly yourself to see (or at least doing more online research).

If you'd like any more specific advice, especially about Philly's (or Boston's) various neighborhoods - merits, demerits, and price points - do feel free to MeMail me.
posted by ClaireBear at 12:49 PM on March 29, 2020

I've lived in Minneapolis, Boston, and DC, and spent significant time in NYC. I also love what you loved about Mpls and also eventually felt a bit claustrophobic there. I suspect you'd end up feeling the same way in Boston: it's about the same size, and though it does have more things going on because of the universities and proximity to NYC, etc, it feels even more provincial to me than Minneapolis. The public transportation there is probably the best that exists in the US for a city of its size.

DC is VERY love it or hate it. I kind of hate it. The nightlife is pretty good, and there's a lot of culture because it's the capital, but not as much homegrown culture as other cities its size because it's a government town. My social life was also suffused with politics, always, and that wore on me personally. (I know people who have non-politico social lives in DC, but it took years and it's hard for transplants to tap into that) The public transit situation looks good on paper but is a mess in practice. DC is often run poorly, partly due to local politics, partly due to federal interference. One thing it DOES have going for it is neighborhoods. My friends who are happiest there found a neighborhood they love and spend most of their non-working time there.

I kind of think that, for what you're looking for, you ought to just give NYC a try, if your budget allows. Live in Brooklyn or Queens, of course, where you'll have more of a neighborhood feel and which, with some exceptions, won't be much more expensive than DC or Boston anyway. Obviously it's the gold standard for car-free living, at least in the US. Great neighborhoods, amazing nightlife, majority-transplant population, etc. It really sounds to me like you want to live in NYC. (BTW, a bunch of my friends from my Minneapolis days live in South Brooklyn and they are all very happy there)
posted by lunasol at 1:19 PM on March 29, 2020 [1 favorite]

Philly is actually really pretty big, and can't actually be crossed in 40 minutes like someone above said. North Philadelphia covers at least half of the city's terrain, and is an area that not many US-born, educated white folks know a lot about when they move here. North Philly has tons of immigrants, with amazing Georgian, Kyrgyz, Russian, Turkish and etc restaurants in abundance, but is not widely known amongst transplants to the city. South Philly (where I live now) is fairly large but very provincially-neighborhood minded, with each area/zip code a unique cosmos of local culture tied to some sort of early 20th century immigrant throwback identity, namely Italian, Polish, and Irish. Philly nominated one of the most liberal DAs in the country, Larry Krasner, and is smattered with Leftist bubbles (punks, anarchists, urban farmers/gardeners, academics, Union members, etc) with traditionally Right leaning voters as well ("blue collar" townies, etc). But the population here is both transient and stable. Many people come here and settle to work at Penn or CHOP, while many more students come here and rotate out after their 4 years of undergrad are up.
In terms of restaurants and culture, etc, Philadelphia is rich and burgeoning, but most everything is closed now due to the coronavirus. The city has a developing coffee scene and many local breweries as well. Philly has an attitude of "let's make shit happen" and so many wonderful small, shoestring budget projects can gain a foothold here. It's a really complex city though, due to its history of cronyism in the police and political arenas, as well as a mixed past on racial and identity issues. Recently there has been an increase in zero-tolerance attitudes towards racism, ableism, sexism, etc. But it's a large place, it's tethered to PA which is its Achilles heel, and progress can happen slowly here.
SEPTA, the transit system, works to improve their services constantly and is sadly one of the better transit systems in the US. There is a decent cyclist scene around here but not many protections for cyclists. People are randomly murdered a lot (like a month ago, someone's body was found in a burned out car near this Toys R Us near our house). The opioid epidemic is bad. The schools, through no fault or due to any lack of talent on the part of educators, are abysmal here. Gorgeous historic buildings get torn down to make way for predatory, sterile
, overpriced housing by one or two major conglomerates. Rents are steadily becoming unsustainable for many locals due to gentrification. The city openly acknowledges that there is a huge budget deficit and openly talks about how its hands are tied to help people more. But people do come together in times of crisis, it's easy to make friends here, and you can walk to small, old bakeries in many locations. In short, like anything worthwhile, this is a complex city and not really the sort of place one can roll up to and expect "city of their dreams" served up on a silver platter.
posted by erattacorrige at 2:14 PM on March 29, 2020 [4 favorites]

Response by poster: Not to threadsit, but @ClaireBear: by nightlife I mean bars/nightclubs. Not so much people dining at a small local restaurant in the evening, but that's cool too.

I think I've learned some more things about Philly and Boston than I would have from Googling for half an hour, so thanks everyone! If it's not NYC...then Philly does seem to be the best fit. I'm definitely more into a city with a NYC vibe, and Boston seems more similar to DC. I liked DC when I was there, but it's a different vibe for sure. But I shall continue to dig and weigh things. Might as well since there's nothing to do! But if you have something to add, I'd love to hear it.
posted by signondiego at 4:01 PM on March 29, 2020

It is impossible to live comfortably as an adult in NYC on less than 100k a year. People are going to say I’m wrong but it’s true.
posted by sideofwry at 4:56 PM on March 29, 2020

You're wrong, but you're not very wrong. (I'd say if you grew up middle-class you're going to have a hard time on the lifestyle sub-$85K.)
posted by praemunire at 5:26 PM on March 29, 2020

Between New York and Philadelphia, I think New York matches your criteria better but Philadelphia will be cheaper. I don't know to what extent this matters to you.

I don't have much personal experience with DC or Boston, but what little I have is consistent with what others are saying: these are not the droids you're looking for.

By the way, if you're into night life, I would say that New York is the only place that has any semblance of public transit at the hours you'll be wanting to get home.
posted by meaty shoe puppet at 5:43 PM on March 29, 2020 [1 favorite]

I’m interested in why you don’t like Chicago! I’ve lived in Chicago, DC and NYC (I live in NYC now) and Chicago was my favorite.

NYC feels vast- visiting friends takes almost always 30-40 minutes. Chicago is just much “easier”

Also moving to east coast from Midwest will have a little culture shock— people won’t typically say hi on the street (they are helpful if you do ask though, or drop something)
posted by sandmanwv at 8:02 PM on March 29, 2020

I've lived in NYC and Boston. I loved NYC for itself, for the chaos and the people from everywhere and the 24-hour public transportation and... Boston was fine because I had friends there.

If nightlife (rather than just evening life) is important, NYC. Boston rolls up the sidewalks.
posted by inexorably_forward at 10:52 PM on March 29, 2020

I'm from Boston area and love it but agree that if nightlife is very important to you, you will likely find Boston lacking. If I move back to the east coast I would consider Philly or Baltimore, both of which are cities I enjoy and are noticeably more affordable than Boston or NYC. Looking at your list of desired attributes, NYC seems the obvious choice.
posted by emd3737 at 2:36 AM on March 30, 2020

DC has nightlife but the transit system is deeply troubled and doesn't run late enough to make much of the nightlife do-able unless you live within walking distance. Additionally, there has been a surge in gang/crew related violence recently in several of the most affordable in-town neighborhoods that you might otherwise have looked at for housing. Been here 17 years but sadly cannot recommend for newcomers ... we're a mess right now, you don't want to be here. Try Philly, it's cheaper and cooler and you're that much closer to NYC.
posted by mccxxiii at 6:43 AM on March 30, 2020

I'm going to chime in on behalf of DC because I really enjoy this city and based on what you value I think you might too.

Walkability: DC is super walkable. The grid setup of the city means it's really easy to navigate and the city itself is less than 10 miles square even though the DC metro area is much larger. I have found walking in the city to be predominantly safe, although I don't walk alone at night much so I can't speak to that.

Great nightlife in multiple areas: It depends what you mean by nightlife. DC has plenty of bars themed and un-themed, and a variety of neighborhoods where people gather including H St., U St., 14th St corridor, Adams Morgan, Dupont, and some places in Northern VA as well although I tend not to make it all the way down to Virginia.

Well run transit system: Ok so people harsh on metro a lot but I avoided getting a car for years when I moved here and it worked out fine. Yeah the trains have delays and the stations aren't open super late, but the bus system is really reliable and by and large when there are train delays, people are super chill about it.

City with good leadership and has its shit together: Depends on who your ward council member is. Some are better than others.

Easy to get around in: Yes, see above.

Variety of urban residential neighborhoods: Yes! A bunch of neighborhoods have their own personalities which is really great. My neighborhood has a ton of small minority owned businesses. Gentrification is a huge issue in this city though as rent prices are super high and unfortunately that means some neighborhoods have become less distinct.

Other relevant things: DC is compact spatially as a city, so I find it less overwhelming than other big cities where you feel like an ant. Climate is super nice here. I grew up in the Northeast and I never understood the second half of the adage "March comes in like a lion and goes out like a lamb" until I moved midcoast where that actually happens. Fall is warmer too. DC has a hint of "Southern nice." People say hi to each other when walking. And contrary to what people say it is not a one game town. Yes, there are a lot of government employees in DC but they aren't all hill staffers. A lot of people work in varied fields like science, statistics, human services, museums, and more. There's also the rest of the city's businesses including non-profits, hospitality, retail and restaurant workers, libraries, emergency services, theatre and performing arts groups. If you only see the hill staffers, then you're ignoring the entire rest of the city that lives here.
posted by donut_princess at 3:05 PM on March 30, 2020 [1 favorite]

I've lived in Boston and NYC and have a tiny bit of experience with Philly. Boston is very walkable and transit-friendly but, as others have said, is not much cheaper than NYC and shuts down way earlier. You definitely also feel the abundance of high-powered higher-ed in the vibe of the city, which has advantages if you're a nerdy type of person, but I think it interacts with a Puritanical cultural element in Boston that prides itself on being kind of uptight and inhibited -- anti-fun, anti-fashion, etc.

The handful of times I've been, I've enjoyed Philly's nightlife way more. It's definitely more of a mid-Atlantic vibe than Boston's New Englandness. Also, a lot of my cooler, younger queer friends are moving there now that they're priced out of places like Boston/NYC and have very good things to say about it. You're also only a 2ish-hour train ride from NYC.

NYC is best-in-class transit and walkability and has everything else on your list. Obviously plenty of people live there on a salary of under 80k (I made under 50k when I lived there in my late 20s), but your lifestyle will be different from what it was in Minneapolis and you may have to spend a lot more time out of each day on the subway, depending on where you work.

Another thing you may want to consider is that transit infrastructure is in really terrible shape in all of these places due to age and deferred maintenance, and Boston and DC have had really infamous transit meltdowns in recent memory (can't speak to the situation in Philly). NYC is struggling somewhat as well but because the network is so expansive and so many people depend on it, I'd be more optimistic that it will continue to maintain a certain level of service over time.
posted by en forme de poire at 3:12 PM on March 30, 2020 [1 favorite]