Was offered a contract with my previous laid-off job. Should I bite?

February 5, 2020 1:26 PM

The department within the organization I used to work for, but was laid off back in the fall, has offered me a contracted job, specifically to manage a system I used to manage when working there full-time. I'm torn if I should take this opportunity or not.

When I worked full-time with my former position, I managed an internal system that was essential to the organization. After I was let go, I heard through the grapevine that my department was really struggling without me, as I was the only one who really knew the system thoroughly, given my experience.

Today, I got a call from my former co-worker (not Debbie). They offered me a contracted job to manage that system 1-2 hours daily during the workweek. I told them I needed a bit of time to think about it. Here's the pros and cons I have so far.

Pros:
-Extra money on the side (in addition to the part-time retail job I'm currently working at) - needed for sure
-I wouldn't be working directly with Debbie, based on my understanding
-Working remotely

Cons:
-I told myself I wouldn't work with the department again, even if an open position was available, as long as Mary Pat (boss) and Debbie was working there - too embarrassing, awkward, and weird
-This system can be a pain to manage (although it is manageable)
-Still in the same department as Debbie, although not working with her
-If a full-time opportunity with another department or organization comes up, I don't want to be "stuck" with the contract

Also, I don't want to be an independent contractor; I'd rather be a contractor, with a proper W-2, for tax reasons. How should I negotiate this, should I decide to accept the contracted offer?

I'd love your insights and thoughts on this, given my past experiences at this workplace. Thanks much.

posted by thoughtful_analyst to Work & Money (29 answers total)

Not trying to impugn your abilities, but if they can't cope with this system, is it really something you can reliably manage remotely for just 1-2 hours/day?
posted by praemunire at 1:33 PM on February 5, 2020

If i were me, I'd say yes - as long as the contract didn't stand in the way of a full-time job, and the money was really, really good.

And guess what - you just learned they need you. So... name your price!

"Why, yes, that does give me a lot of leverage and it's a staggering hourly rate. Well, that's my price as a consultant. You decided you didn't need me, so, that's not my problem. Pay up or good luck."

There's nothing wrong with determining your own price, realizing they might not pay it, and naming it anyway. You are in control here, not them.

Also, be aware - and remind them if needed - that taking on any work could jeopardize, reduce, or eliminate your unemployment payment from the state. (I am not a lawyer.) So if it's not really worth it, it's really... not worth it! How nice of them to make your decision easier by not having the budget to solve the problem they created when they laid you off.
posted by Tomorrowful at 1:38 PM on February 5, 2020

Ask yourself how much you would need to get paid to not resent the job. Then ask for terms (generous pay, tax status, work from home, notice required...) that suit you. They need you, so make them pay.
posted by the_blizz at 1:38 PM on February 5, 2020

"Also, I don't want to be an independent contractor; I'd rather be a contractor, with a proper W-2, for tax reasons."

I'm not sure I understand this part. A W-2 employee is specifically *not* a contractor, but is an actual ... employee.

Are you saying you want them to hire you back on staff? That may be harder for them to do for internal political reasons. n=1, but at my place it's much easier to push through a consultant than to get a new position approved and filled, and there are a lot of time/labor-intensive hiring-process requirements that can be bypassed by using a consultant.

Plus you'll probably be able to get more money out of them if you approach this as a contractor/consultant...
posted by mccxxiii at 1:49 PM on February 5, 2020

Seems like a generally unworkable situation unless you're really desperate for cash, did they propose a fee? DO NOT take less than four times your previous hourly rate. Call a contracting service and see if they'll take you on, be totally clear about the rate you will take and be ready to say no, but they are mostly in a system that plans on a percent of a full time person so it may not be worth adding you to the w2 system.

Do not do this unless you're able to walk away at a moments notice.

And don't go for a 1-2 ambiguity, specify that no matter what they owe you 2 hours a week.

Go in as a tough businessperson or not at all.
posted by sammyo at 1:53 PM on February 5, 2020

Is this really a couple of hours per week of work? Really? Given your prior experiences, I'd be hesitant to sign on and expect them to stick to a scope of work and get paid the actual hours worked.

Also, helping them out of this fix lets them gloss over what appears to be a capricious and arbitrary firing. 1) you bail them out of a problem Mary Pat created, instead of letting the organization feel the pain she caused. 2) it looks like "well, it couldn't have been that bad if they're willing to come back and work with them again."

If you really need the money, quote a really high figure - one that takes into account not just your time and overhead, but also the amount of time you spent learning how to manage this apparently difficult system. Take a number that seems fair, then double it a couple of times.
posted by jzb at 1:56 PM on February 5, 2020

What Tomorrowful said, but on rates: working for 1-2 hours means you will be unable to do another full days work for anyone else on those days. Therefore the daily rate you ask for should be at least equivalent to a full days pay. Most contractors do not offer to work/bill for part-days. Also you will probably find that "1-2 hours" quickly turns into a full day.

I would ask for a daily rate thats equal to DOUBLE what your previous daily pay on a full time contract would have been.

The fact they are offering you a contract means this is likely to be a short term gig so you have nothing to lose by negotiating hard.
posted by Lanark at 2:24 PM on February 5, 2020

I did something like this many years ago, after being forced to leave my dream job at my dream company. I was an emotional wreck after I left and had a lot of the same questions/emotions you did in your previous Ask.

Going back to help them out/get some cash did not go well for me emotionally. It made everything a lot worse in fact, and if you were my friend and we were discussing this over drinks, I would pat you on the shoulder and tell you to enjoy the delicious schadenfreude and put them in your rearview mirror. Let Debbie and Mary Pat flounder.

If you can't help yourself and decide to go back, do what others have suggested and quote a super high figure--it's likely this would affect your unemployment as well, so make sure you've looked into that before you sign anything.
posted by kitten kaboodle at 2:27 PM on February 5, 2020

Sure, you could be an adult about it, and find a mutually acceptable price for your labour and time, but I vote for the low road, writing the most archly satisfying 'if you liked it then you should have put a ring on it' email to say, no, they can't have you back cheap.
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 2:29 PM on February 5, 2020

The minimum you should consider charging for this is twice your old hourly rate with an eight hour minimum per week in either four or eight hour blocks. Even if you can accomplish everything in two hours, you get paid for a full day to cover the time spent context switching, dealing with taxes, paying your own benefits, etc.

Offering to pay you a pittance of your former salary for mission critical work is insulting.
posted by Candleman at 2:35 PM on February 5, 2020

I'm not sure I understand this part. A W-2 employee is specifically *not* a contractor, but is an actual ... employee.

Odd. Before I was hired full-time, I worked contract (about 5 hours total) the year before at the same department/organization, and got a W-2 for the (very small) amount.

Also, forgot to add this to my original Ask—the person who asked/offered is actually a professional reference of mine, so I don't want to burn any bridges by saying no or asking for a high fee, and risk losing this person as a reference (or getting a bad reference down the road). Any recommendations for working around that?
posted by thoughtful_analyst at 2:50 PM on February 5, 2020

Asking for a high fee isn't just a dig at them, it's dealing with the reality of the situation: before, they paid you X, took out the taxes, gave you benefits, etc. Now *you* are responsible for the taxes and you have zero benefits. 2x-4x your old rate barely brings you to even, never mind profiting from the situation. (I'm 100% freelance so I'm very familiar with this.)

Also: 1-2 hours a day is actually a lot, given that it's every day of the workweek. Are you going to be able to (fill in the blank here -- work the retail job you have now, do effective job searching for a good full-time position, and/or even truly manage this workload in 1-2 hours) with that hanging over you every single day of the week?

The person who asked does deserve a polite response, given your relationship, but that polite response doens't have to be a yes. It can be a measured "no thank you" that includes such statements as "it was so lovely of you to think of me" and "I'm focusing on finding full-time work" and "given the personal dynamics involved, I think it would be best for everyone if I didn't step back into this role" and "I'm actually interested in a position that does XYZ rather than ABC."

"Focusing on finding full-time work" is a wonderful catch-all that may be enough. And the unspoken subtext is something like "I might come back if you got rid of Debbie and Mary Pat."
posted by BlahLaLa at 3:02 PM on February 5, 2020

the person who asked/offered is actually a professional reference of mine, so I don't want to burn any bridges by saying no or asking for a high fee, and risk losing this person as a reference (or getting a bad reference down the road). Any recommendations for working around that?

Offering an hour or two of work a day at a low fee is not professional. Full stop. There's nothing unprofessional about just declining and saying that you're not interested in a small amount of work.
posted by Candleman at 3:06 PM on February 5, 2020

Only do it if you can get them to offer you a reasonable rate, ie roughly 3x what you were making hourly full-time. They might be thinking they can get you for a similar rate to what they were paying you before, but hourly freelancers should make more. I did this twice with an employer that laid me off in a very political manner and I have to say it was pretty satisfying, in addition to being lucrative.

Also, I'd recommend charging them a weekly/monthly flat fee based on the high end of the hours you think it will take. ie, if you made $30/hour before, charge them $900/week (or $3600/month), based on the idea that it will be 10 hours/week of your time at $90/hour. I've now been freelancing for a few years, and I find clients take me more seriously when I charge them a weekly/monthly or by the project. And it sounds like you're going to need to make sure they take you seriously. If you're worried about them taking advantage of the flat fee, you can do hourly, but in that case I'd make the hourly fee higher.

On non-preview, I see you don't want to ask for a high fee. Look, they need you. You have earned that fee. But if you don't feel like you can ask for that, politely decline. Otherwise you're just going to end up in a bad, disempowered position.
posted by lunasol at 3:42 PM on February 5, 2020

"Thank you for thinking of me! I have some other irons in the fire right now, so I'll need $[lots of money] to be able to do this."
posted by metasarah at 3:53 PM on February 5, 2020

Ask them to name a rate first. This will give you a sense of how desperate they are vs. how much they are valuing your time.
posted by many more sunsets at 3:58 PM on February 5, 2020

.... the person who asked/offered is actually a professional reference of mine, so I don't want to burn any bridges by saying no or asking for a high fee, and risk losing this person as a reference (or getting a bad reference down the road).
This person is not "giving" you a reference -- you earned it.

Agreeing with the above about valuing your time and the impact that this part-time gig will have on your current job focus. Sometimes it's easier for a company to justify contract work, rather than full and part-time employees. They expect a larger flat fee to balance the perks that the contract employee will not receive.
They benefit. So you benefit by getting paid upfront, at a set rate, with clauses added to the contract in your favor.
I'm in an at-will employment state, so definitely understand that they can drop you or under-use you. This is not your full-time gig, so have that back door that says the company cannot impede your future employment opportunities.
One benefit: you are obviously a valued employee, since they rehired you. This is a plus on a resume. But don't let that be the sole reason to work for them again.

Repeat slowly under your breath: this is professional, not personal.
Assume that all the other professionals are watching and taking notes and can be a source of better employment. Stay clean in your behavior, and accept nothing less in theirs.
posted by TrishaU at 4:24 PM on February 5, 2020

This exact thing happened to a buddy of mine who got laid off from a big tech company you would know because the higher ups decided his narrow but deep area of expertise was no longer needed. Six months later, all the folks in other departments who worked with him (infrequently but in important ways) were up in arms that he was missing. A bunch of big customers, including federal government ones, wanted to know where he was because he was so handy to them. So the big tech company got back in touch with my buddy, who became a contractor largely on his own terms via a contracting agency at a much, much larger salary.

Contracting is a pain in the ass, because you have to deal with your own taxes, withholding, etc. But it can be worth it IF you make it worth it. Otherwise, don't bother. This truly is not personal. This truly is just business. Do not say yes in a way that will let you be screwed a second time. That would be crazy pants.
posted by Bella Donna at 4:44 PM on February 5, 2020

"Also, I don't want to be an independent contractor; I'd rather be a contractor..."

I strongly recommend that you clarify what they (and you) mean by this. These terms are usually used interchangeably, but you're using them as two different things. Either you are an independent contractor where you invoice them for your work and they pay you a large wage. You pay your own taxes to the government, and you get a 1099 from them.... Generally you supply your own equipment and act as an outside entity providing a service to the company.

OR you get a W2 and you are paid by the company. They pay their share of your taxes and withhold the rest from your paycheck. You may have a 'contract' with them, but this doesn't make you a 'contractor.' Your hourly rate is lower generally if you are a W2 because the company assumes more liability. A W2 position may be part-time, full-time, temporary or permanent.

Assuming you're in the U.S....
posted by hydra77 at 5:14 PM on February 5, 2020

In thinking about an hourly rate, remember that an employee costs the company 25-35% more than the nominal salary due to health insurance, etc. It might be more than that if considering office space, heat, light, etc, etc.

In your place, I'd be strongly influenced by how much I needed ths money.

By the way, are they asking you to train someone this system?
posted by SemiSalt at 5:40 PM on February 5, 2020

I would think very, very carefully about what it would actually take for you to feel good about working for these folks again. Not just happy to be missed or sorry that your coworkers are having a difficult time or feeling obligated because someone you like asked you to come back.

If you decide you’re open to the idea, definitely ask for at least 3-4x your previous hourly rate to compensate for additional payroll taxes, loss of benefit, and frankly the inconvenience of shoehorning 10 additional hours of consulting for a dysfunctional workplace with a manager you don’t like.
posted by The Elusive Architeuthis at 5:55 PM on February 5, 2020

Ask for a lot of money. They need your skills and experience badly. You deserve to be paid quite well if you do, part-time, what you used to do full time. Will you get vacation, sick pay, disability and health and life insurance? Nope. That stuff costs at least an additional 50% of pay. It does not burn a bridge. It makes people respect you. Value yourself. They've been shitty to you, so you should need money to persuade you to go back, and money really does make work wounds heal.

Set very clear expectations about your availability, what you will do, etc. They've shown they'll take advantage of you; do not let them do it again
posted by theora55 at 7:25 PM on February 5, 2020

Holy shit I read your backstory and wow, fuck them to the moon!

Agreeing with everything everyone has said here. What a horrible organisation. I know you said you don’t think Debbie or Mary Pat will be involved with the work but there is no way they won’t know, since you’ll be working on the same system you were working on under them. And the entire organisation was set up to support their actions. There are no good guys there.

This contact, if they are a true ally they will 1) completely understand if you turn it down and 2) completely understand if you quote a deservedly high figure as your rate. I’m a stranger and I’m rooting for you to get paid your fair share and then some, as a tax for dealing with this awful company again. You can communicate with them politely and professionally (some great scripts in this thread). You won’t burn bridges and you will be much happier with yourself.
posted by like_neon at 1:12 AM on February 6, 2020

Having read your previous post about this company, it reminds me of a job I recently quit. I suspect that sooner rather than later, they're going to get into some kind of jam and they're going to try to get you to work a lot more than you agreed and they are going to try not to pay you for all or most of it. I mean, I hope they're not going to do that but they sound like the kind of employers who will.
posted by BibiRose at 4:40 AM on February 6, 2020

"This contact, if they are a true ally they will 1) completely understand if you turn it down and 2) completely understand if you quote a deservedly high figure as your rate."

like_neon has nailed it right here. Building on that thought, consider that your contact person might really know what a shit-show this would be, but is being leaned on by internal politics/particular interests to encourage you to do this in order to solve their problem.

It's absolutely possible for this person to like you, appreciate you, want to see you succeed, but also to have his or her own professional situation override that. And in the same way, it's 100% okay for you to prioritize your own personal and professional needs over all else.
posted by mccxxiii at 6:37 AM on February 6, 2020

Re the whole contractor/employee thing: One can be an employee of a temp agency and receive a W-2. These people are often called contractors (this is my current situation). One can receive a 1099 directly from the people you're doing the work for and be a contractor. But I don't think you can receive a W-2 from the people you work for and be a contractor. Apart from the added work of filing quarterlies and a Schedule C, you roll the tax burden of being a (1099) contractor into your rate.

And I will Nth the advice that if you're going to do this, don't be the least bit shy about asking for enough to make it worth your while, including whatever PITA you'll need to deal with when doing it, and consider how valuable it will be to the company to have you do it. I have no way of knowing if your contact at the company would find out what you're being paid--they probably would not--but they should not take it badly if they found out you're being paid well. Seriously, whatever number you've been thinking of, the right rate is higher than that. Like, triple digits per hour.
posted by adamrice at 11:27 AM on February 6, 2020

I would consider taking this only with 2 conditions:

1. They pay you 2x your formerly salary divided by 2,080. This is the number of hours in a typical work year. So if you made $100k, you were making $48/hr, they need to pay you $96/hour. This is to cover benefits (health, dental, 401k) that you are no longer getting, as well as the employer's share of your taxes that you will need to pay as a 1099, plus some extra because they laid you off and now want you back. :) I'd round up and say "My rate for this is $100/hour."

2. The contract includes that you can terminate the contract at any time with 5 business days notice.

If you want, you can sent a minimum - that you will be paid for no less than 10 hours a week (or whatever), regardless of hours worked. This is a sort of "retainer" that you are charging to keep yourself available.

You can also set the schedule - if you don't want to work everyday right now, you can offer to work 1 day a week, or two half days a week. Only you know if that is feasible with the content of this project.

Whether or not I would actually take this would depend on whether or not I needed the money and how likely it was I was taking a new job shortly.
posted by amaire at 11:43 AM on February 6, 2020

Long term, 1-2 hours per day is going to be really hard to manage the rest of your life around. I'd give them a set (appropriately high) rate for a set schedule - ideally limited to one day per week. Anything done outside of that set time should be billed at an even higher rate than your regular consulting fee.
posted by wearyaswater at 1:51 PM on February 6, 2020

Almost forgot to update this, but I decided ultimately not to go through with it, and communicated as such, using a modified version of BlahLaLa's scripts. Thank you for the insights.
posted by thoughtful_analyst at 9:37 AM on February 18, 2020