How should I handle this mishandle?
January 6, 2020 8:41 AM Subscribe
Going through troubles with a contractor. What should I do about it? Or not?
Okay, so the missus and I decided to have our kitchen freshened up by one of those refacing/replacement places. New doors on the cabinets, new drawers and hardware, new facing on all the other wood, a few cool gadgets ... that sort of thing. We settled on a franchise owned locally and gave the go ahead in September. They said the job would take "five days max" and would be done the first week in November. Well, that hasn't happened. They've botched most every aspect of the job. Materials mis-ordered; installations done wrong, materials broken in their possession, horrible communication, and more. They missed Thanksgiving. They missed Christmas and now we're into the new year with no firm finish date. It's been over 17 days of work in our home with more days to come. It's become apparent that the company has operational flaws. For instance, they don't have enough workers, so although the ones who came are competent enough, they're not being allotted enough time by their bosses to work carefully. For instance, the last visit saw one installer instead of the normal two. He worked his butt off and stayed for 12 hours on his own volition. But he had to work so fast and so long that he overlooked some stuff and eventually left without cleaning up ... we had to get up on ladders and vacuum out our kitchen. You can see he was frustrated. Not enough time. Not enough help. The so-called Project Manager doesn't return calls and hasn't been on-site since the first day.
I've done the normal stuff. I've talked with a lawyer a little. I've withheld the funds we still owe. I've had the owner and the designer out to the house for a come-to-Jesus meeting. And the owner has promised not to stop until we're totally satisfied. We've been calm but firm with them. No screaming or yelling. But there has been no price accommodation or anything for our troubles or time or inconvenience. The owner's explanation remains something along the lines of "sometimes stuff just happens and I'm sorry but this job just went sideways. We'll take care of it. We apologize."
But what do I do when this is over? Specifically, should I spread this tale on social media and to friends far and wide? It's the type of uber-local social media and a tight community where a horrible story like this could seriously affect his business. But I wonder if that could lead to his guys – whom I've come to know and sort of like – taking the hit and possible losing their jobs from either getting fired our having their hours reduced as people flee their services. On the other hand, this company has structural, staffing and procedural problems that are really only apparent when you hire them. And I can't stand the thought of someone else entering into the same situation as we did when I could warn them off. Or, I'll admit, I'm feeling a little powerless here and I'm wondering if I'm just being vengeful because of that. Seems like the only people feeling any pain here is us.
So when this is over, what should I do? Do I just take the hit and chalk it up to a crappy life experience? Or do I go a little public with this so that the business feels a little of our pain and, just maybe, corrects its problems so that no one else has to go through this, too?
Okay, so the missus and I decided to have our kitchen freshened up by one of those refacing/replacement places. New doors on the cabinets, new drawers and hardware, new facing on all the other wood, a few cool gadgets ... that sort of thing. We settled on a franchise owned locally and gave the go ahead in September. They said the job would take "five days max" and would be done the first week in November. Well, that hasn't happened. They've botched most every aspect of the job. Materials mis-ordered; installations done wrong, materials broken in their possession, horrible communication, and more. They missed Thanksgiving. They missed Christmas and now we're into the new year with no firm finish date. It's been over 17 days of work in our home with more days to come. It's become apparent that the company has operational flaws. For instance, they don't have enough workers, so although the ones who came are competent enough, they're not being allotted enough time by their bosses to work carefully. For instance, the last visit saw one installer instead of the normal two. He worked his butt off and stayed for 12 hours on his own volition. But he had to work so fast and so long that he overlooked some stuff and eventually left without cleaning up ... we had to get up on ladders and vacuum out our kitchen. You can see he was frustrated. Not enough time. Not enough help. The so-called Project Manager doesn't return calls and hasn't been on-site since the first day.
I've done the normal stuff. I've talked with a lawyer a little. I've withheld the funds we still owe. I've had the owner and the designer out to the house for a come-to-Jesus meeting. And the owner has promised not to stop until we're totally satisfied. We've been calm but firm with them. No screaming or yelling. But there has been no price accommodation or anything for our troubles or time or inconvenience. The owner's explanation remains something along the lines of "sometimes stuff just happens and I'm sorry but this job just went sideways. We'll take care of it. We apologize."
But what do I do when this is over? Specifically, should I spread this tale on social media and to friends far and wide? It's the type of uber-local social media and a tight community where a horrible story like this could seriously affect his business. But I wonder if that could lead to his guys – whom I've come to know and sort of like – taking the hit and possible losing their jobs from either getting fired our having their hours reduced as people flee their services. On the other hand, this company has structural, staffing and procedural problems that are really only apparent when you hire them. And I can't stand the thought of someone else entering into the same situation as we did when I could warn them off. Or, I'll admit, I'm feeling a little powerless here and I'm wondering if I'm just being vengeful because of that. Seems like the only people feeling any pain here is us.
So when this is over, what should I do? Do I just take the hit and chalk it up to a crappy life experience? Or do I go a little public with this so that the business feels a little of our pain and, just maybe, corrects its problems so that no one else has to go through this, too?
i had this happen in 2018 after my kitchen was accidentally destroyed by a plumber. the company my insurance company hired to remediate/reconstruct was similarly bad. They got literally every detail wrong during the process, which lasted from November until March. Same terrible/lack of communication from the project manager.
Finally I figured out that the project manager, whose job is to order the correct pieces and schedule the work to be done, was the problem. I fired him and asked for a different one. The project was literally done the next day.
I was so grateful to finally have my kitchen back that I just let it go and chalked it up to a bad experience. This seems to be frustratingly common with contractors.
posted by hollisimo at 9:10 AM on January 6, 2020 [3 favorites]
Finally I figured out that the project manager, whose job is to order the correct pieces and schedule the work to be done, was the problem. I fired him and asked for a different one. The project was literally done the next day.
I was so grateful to finally have my kitchen back that I just let it go and chalked it up to a bad experience. This seems to be frustratingly common with contractors.
posted by hollisimo at 9:10 AM on January 6, 2020 [3 favorites]
If anything, I think you should focus your review on the person that appears to be causing the problem - the project manager. The business needs to see that person is the weak link and future customers need to make sure they get the correct person to accurately complete the job.
As a reminder, I'd stick to demonstrable facts (e.g., schedule overages, installations incorrect, wrong parts orders) in your social media posts. We had a project that went south at our house and our lawyer was overjoyed that we kept our Angie's list post factual (though she would have been happier if we never posted).
posted by TofuGolem at 9:22 AM on January 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
As a reminder, I'd stick to demonstrable facts (e.g., schedule overages, installations incorrect, wrong parts orders) in your social media posts. We had a project that went south at our house and our lawyer was overjoyed that we kept our Angie's list post factual (though she would have been happier if we never posted).
posted by TofuGolem at 9:22 AM on January 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
"We hired CabinetCo in September for a job that they planned to complete in early November but still is not finished. [Add other demonstrable facts here] We understand that sometimes stuff just happens and jobs go sideways, but we have not been happy with their performance. Ownership has apologized and promise to take care of it, and I am looking forward to the day when they do so."
That seems like a reasonable and defensible post or comment to leave.
posted by Rock Steady at 9:52 AM on January 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
That seems like a reasonable and defensible post or comment to leave.
posted by Rock Steady at 9:52 AM on January 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
Your next step is to tell the owner that you want a new project manager. The root of the problem is that person. "Taking care of it" includes projects that are competently managed, not just finishing it eventually. You're not paying for just the finished work, you are paying for every step along the way, and those have all been unsatisfactory.
posted by juniperesque at 10:58 AM on January 6, 2020 [3 favorites]
posted by juniperesque at 10:58 AM on January 6, 2020 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: Just a note: there is no option to get a new project manager. There is only one. I've expressed my dissatisfaction with her to the owner.
posted by lpsguy at 1:27 PM on January 6, 2020
posted by lpsguy at 1:27 PM on January 6, 2020
I would hold off on anything negative until the project is done. If your goal is to get this thing done, your best interest is to work as well as possible with them.
It sounds like they over-promised. I have also been on the other side of this; my ex worked for a while as a contractor and in the trades, and sometimes customers didn't understand the difference between a bid (a guaranteed price) and an estimate (his best guess as the to the cost), though he tried to explain, and that he was giving estimates not promises for his time. The "sometimes stuff just happens" -- was that about something at your house? Did they find some structural problems that needed to be repaired? It could have been beyond their control.
Having said that, they don't sound like a great company. I guess I'd focus on the most important thing right now, making it as easy as possible for them to finish. Then, I'd leave a factual review or two. I wouldn't blast it on social media or anything like that because leaning into that negativity can feel really awful and terrible. If I were to run that sort of negative campaign, I would feel worse about them and myself.
Re-evaluate once it's done. Kitchen construction and renovation, even on a small scale, is just about always terrible to live through. Try to enjoy the refreshed space and do some deep breathing to move past this frustration.
posted by bluedaisy at 1:49 PM on January 6, 2020
It sounds like they over-promised. I have also been on the other side of this; my ex worked for a while as a contractor and in the trades, and sometimes customers didn't understand the difference between a bid (a guaranteed price) and an estimate (his best guess as the to the cost), though he tried to explain, and that he was giving estimates not promises for his time. The "sometimes stuff just happens" -- was that about something at your house? Did they find some structural problems that needed to be repaired? It could have been beyond their control.
Having said that, they don't sound like a great company. I guess I'd focus on the most important thing right now, making it as easy as possible for them to finish. Then, I'd leave a factual review or two. I wouldn't blast it on social media or anything like that because leaning into that negativity can feel really awful and terrible. If I were to run that sort of negative campaign, I would feel worse about them and myself.
Re-evaluate once it's done. Kitchen construction and renovation, even on a small scale, is just about always terrible to live through. Try to enjoy the refreshed space and do some deep breathing to move past this frustration.
posted by bluedaisy at 1:49 PM on January 6, 2020
Best answer: And the owner has promised not to stop until we're totally satisfied
I just want to make sure to call this out as not actually a good thing. "We'll be there forever if we have to!"
posted by rhizome at 4:04 PM on January 6, 2020
I just want to make sure to call this out as not actually a good thing. "We'll be there forever if we have to!"
posted by rhizome at 4:04 PM on January 6, 2020
Best answer: This won't help this time, but I try to always negotiate a penalty clause for late completion. I usually say something like "I don't care how long you allow--allow three times what your estimate is, but I need to get $X per day for every day past the deadline." If they won't agree to that, that tells you they're a lying sack of shit and you just saved yourself a big headache.
If your job goes into overtime you are costing the contractor money and you suddenly go to the top of the pile--all the workers are doing your job while everyone else gets the old "sorry, your job is just going sideways." It's like the old saying: you don't have to outrun the bear, you just have to outrun someone else. Good luck on getting your stuff done eventually.
posted by Gilgamesh's Chauffeur at 5:41 PM on January 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
If your job goes into overtime you are costing the contractor money and you suddenly go to the top of the pile--all the workers are doing your job while everyone else gets the old "sorry, your job is just going sideways." It's like the old saying: you don't have to outrun the bear, you just have to outrun someone else. Good luck on getting your stuff done eventually.
posted by Gilgamesh's Chauffeur at 5:41 PM on January 6, 2020 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Hey, I'm a contractor! Sometimes I go into a job and it requires so much more work than I realized, usually because someone who did work before me did something mildly insane. Other times, I just underestimated how long a thing would actually take when considering all the zillion factors (weather or suppliers or non-standard fittings or bad surfaces or so many other things).
Here's what I think is the important part: when it happens that a job is gonna take longer than I thought, I bring it up the moment I realize it and do my best to explain what happened and where things went pear-shaped. I assure a client that I want to get the job to a quality level that would satisfy my own high standards and theirs. I apologize and I'm clear about how I'm going to make it right. I hear out the people who hired me. And then I get it done as quickly as I can so as not to disrupt their life and home any longer than necessary. This is all grain-of-salt, as I am my only employee. But when I truly drop a ball, I offer a discount with my apology. If you're at a loss for how things went so very wrong, that does seem to be on the PM who doesn't get back to you. The individual workers/installers don't really have the room to apologize, and you're right to think they're just as frustrated.
I think fingersandtoes has really good advice. I'd add that you could drop the company a line letting them know that you put up a review that you're hoping to revise and not wait for them to encounter it sometime in the future. It sounds like you're being firm with a company that's a bit of a struggler. It doesn't sound like they're trying to burn you; just that they're not good at the staffing and organizing. They could probably use the little kick to fix those problems. If they don't fix them, it seems given what you've written above that you would write a really fair review.
Good luck! When your kitchen is done, I bet it'll be great.
posted by lauranesson at 7:38 PM on January 7, 2020
Here's what I think is the important part: when it happens that a job is gonna take longer than I thought, I bring it up the moment I realize it and do my best to explain what happened and where things went pear-shaped. I assure a client that I want to get the job to a quality level that would satisfy my own high standards and theirs. I apologize and I'm clear about how I'm going to make it right. I hear out the people who hired me. And then I get it done as quickly as I can so as not to disrupt their life and home any longer than necessary. This is all grain-of-salt, as I am my only employee. But when I truly drop a ball, I offer a discount with my apology. If you're at a loss for how things went so very wrong, that does seem to be on the PM who doesn't get back to you. The individual workers/installers don't really have the room to apologize, and you're right to think they're just as frustrated.
I think fingersandtoes has really good advice. I'd add that you could drop the company a line letting them know that you put up a review that you're hoping to revise and not wait for them to encounter it sometime in the future. It sounds like you're being firm with a company that's a bit of a struggler. It doesn't sound like they're trying to burn you; just that they're not good at the staffing and organizing. They could probably use the little kick to fix those problems. If they don't fix them, it seems given what you've written above that you would write a really fair review.
Good luck! When your kitchen is done, I bet it'll be great.
posted by lauranesson at 7:38 PM on January 7, 2020
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I don't think it's out of line to post on social media. His failure here SHOULD affect his business. As to whether it will be an effective lever to push, I don't know, but it sounds like you've tried most of the others. I'd probably include something like "I'm really hoping to be able to revise this review, but as things stand now, here are the problems we've faced..." (so there's still an inducement for him to make it right.)
posted by fingersandtoes at 8:51 AM on January 6, 2020 [2 favorites]