Figuring out boundaries of a friend versus date
July 12, 2019 1:47 AM Subscribe
I'm a person who is more prone to dating than having friends. I finally have someone who I feel is a lovely friend. It's really nice. It's the level of attention I'd get in a relationship, a young one mind. But it's hard to know if I'm doing it right. Advice appreciated.
Basically, I am a passionate friend, I move quickly, say things like "I love you" and want to share details of our day throughout the day. This has quickly become the new normal with this friend.
A few days ago we had a big fight, where she teased me cruelly about something I'm especially vulnerable about. It was on the heels of my confessing to her that I was really hung up on this guy. Truth be told, I feel really unable to name a single person who I'm sure cares about me. And I'm insistently open about these things with her, I guess I wanted to see if she would comfort me. Please don't give too much advice on this tendency, not receiving emotional support in friendship is a deal breaker for me.
Ok but anyway, it wasn't totally clear if she understood the issue deeply, and then she went and joked cruelly about it. Worse, she withdrew about it for a whole day as I grew more frantic, texted with a mutual friend for hours, gobbled xanax, and generally couldn't deal. I hate the silent treatment and it ended with a sobbing conversation on both our ends, and then her paypalling me several hundred dollars (I had a huge project paid by the hour and was frantically trying to get her attention but really couldn't cope - on hearing this she just sent the money out of affection. I am very stressed about money - and lots of other things, for legitimate reasons. I will return it).
These are my issues, some of them, but the point is that I'm an emotionally intense person in love, and really just know I need to find my counterpart. In friendship, it's harder to say. Me and this girl are both insistently polyamorous people right now. Sometimes I worry that she finds me clingy. When I think she might expect more from me than I can give, I break out in hives too because she seems so un-ready for a serious relationship and I'm ready for a permanent life partner. But it seems to be working anyway! Her cute little statements of loyalty, and companionship always make my heart go pitter patter.
I do get jealous though - when she talks about how much other people also want a piece of her in this way. It's not clear to me if she wants me to be jealous (romantically) but she often alludes to things in this realm. She doesn't share her every thought or feeling like me either, but I've gotten used to this.
I'm not even a very clingy dater to be honest, but ever since high school, my female on female friendships have been love-like. It feels like I've made her pressured or responsible or dependent. But that's because I generally don't share those things with people, or I guess with past friends, maybe they've learned my basic demographics but more through the medium of humor. She really knows whatever I'd put in my diary. It could be too obsessive?
She hasn't said anything of the likes, but maybe that cruel joke was a way of saying so? (Complicating things she says she just says mean jokes, and her last girlfriend broke up with her over it, devastating her and she says she needs to change her desire to gain attention and pats on the head through making cruel witty jokes).
Now the bad part - were this a relationship, I'd seriously consider ending it. Because it was a very snippy joke. It hurt me a lot. In general, I dated a man like this who was a poor match, both very vulnerable/sensitive and very prone to put downs and passive aggression. I want to believe my friend is not like that. My own anxiety may be getting the best of me.
In fact, she reminds me of a girl in high school, poor little high school karmachameleon got her heart trounced by this by this person. All of my anxieties and tastes in relationships - hating the silent treatment especially! - were formed by this proto lesbian crush. (It was a crush - and the reason there were no others!). I will be fully honest, whenever a prospective mate reminds me of that girl, I cross him off the list. Whenever they are available and kind unlike this girl, I feel a flush of relief. It's true. No doubt many people have been punished for the sins of this original person.
Help me, metafilter. Help me be a good friend to this person, or at least learn how to navigate my own feelings. I think it's wonderful to be able to be emotionally intimate with a person (without even sleeping them!), but there is a named dynamic where she is less insecure, and more loved by others, and I feel like this is not my preferred role in things! I've sort of fallen into the protesting, sulky, insecure friend who shares all their personal shit, even if she perhaps tolerates this or likes it or enjoys it. And I want to be her friend without feeling that way.
And look, I want to be a good friend to her but am still mad about the silent treatment, despite the gift. I'm really sulky underneath - I've dated some emotionally abusive, difficult people, and the gifts flowed there too. What I want is an explanation for how to be a good friend, and how to better hold people to minimal expectations of kindness. Or understand if this is romantic infatuation. Have at it, metafilter.
Basically, I am a passionate friend, I move quickly, say things like "I love you" and want to share details of our day throughout the day. This has quickly become the new normal with this friend.
A few days ago we had a big fight, where she teased me cruelly about something I'm especially vulnerable about. It was on the heels of my confessing to her that I was really hung up on this guy. Truth be told, I feel really unable to name a single person who I'm sure cares about me. And I'm insistently open about these things with her, I guess I wanted to see if she would comfort me. Please don't give too much advice on this tendency, not receiving emotional support in friendship is a deal breaker for me.
Ok but anyway, it wasn't totally clear if she understood the issue deeply, and then she went and joked cruelly about it. Worse, she withdrew about it for a whole day as I grew more frantic, texted with a mutual friend for hours, gobbled xanax, and generally couldn't deal. I hate the silent treatment and it ended with a sobbing conversation on both our ends, and then her paypalling me several hundred dollars (I had a huge project paid by the hour and was frantically trying to get her attention but really couldn't cope - on hearing this she just sent the money out of affection. I am very stressed about money - and lots of other things, for legitimate reasons. I will return it).
These are my issues, some of them, but the point is that I'm an emotionally intense person in love, and really just know I need to find my counterpart. In friendship, it's harder to say. Me and this girl are both insistently polyamorous people right now. Sometimes I worry that she finds me clingy. When I think she might expect more from me than I can give, I break out in hives too because she seems so un-ready for a serious relationship and I'm ready for a permanent life partner. But it seems to be working anyway! Her cute little statements of loyalty, and companionship always make my heart go pitter patter.
I do get jealous though - when she talks about how much other people also want a piece of her in this way. It's not clear to me if she wants me to be jealous (romantically) but she often alludes to things in this realm. She doesn't share her every thought or feeling like me either, but I've gotten used to this.
I'm not even a very clingy dater to be honest, but ever since high school, my female on female friendships have been love-like. It feels like I've made her pressured or responsible or dependent. But that's because I generally don't share those things with people, or I guess with past friends, maybe they've learned my basic demographics but more through the medium of humor. She really knows whatever I'd put in my diary. It could be too obsessive?
She hasn't said anything of the likes, but maybe that cruel joke was a way of saying so? (Complicating things she says she just says mean jokes, and her last girlfriend broke up with her over it, devastating her and she says she needs to change her desire to gain attention and pats on the head through making cruel witty jokes).
Now the bad part - were this a relationship, I'd seriously consider ending it. Because it was a very snippy joke. It hurt me a lot. In general, I dated a man like this who was a poor match, both very vulnerable/sensitive and very prone to put downs and passive aggression. I want to believe my friend is not like that. My own anxiety may be getting the best of me.
In fact, she reminds me of a girl in high school, poor little high school karmachameleon got her heart trounced by this by this person. All of my anxieties and tastes in relationships - hating the silent treatment especially! - were formed by this proto lesbian crush. (It was a crush - and the reason there were no others!). I will be fully honest, whenever a prospective mate reminds me of that girl, I cross him off the list. Whenever they are available and kind unlike this girl, I feel a flush of relief. It's true. No doubt many people have been punished for the sins of this original person.
Help me, metafilter. Help me be a good friend to this person, or at least learn how to navigate my own feelings. I think it's wonderful to be able to be emotionally intimate with a person (without even sleeping them!), but there is a named dynamic where she is less insecure, and more loved by others, and I feel like this is not my preferred role in things! I've sort of fallen into the protesting, sulky, insecure friend who shares all their personal shit, even if she perhaps tolerates this or likes it or enjoys it. And I want to be her friend without feeling that way.
And look, I want to be a good friend to her but am still mad about the silent treatment, despite the gift. I'm really sulky underneath - I've dated some emotionally abusive, difficult people, and the gifts flowed there too. What I want is an explanation for how to be a good friend, and how to better hold people to minimal expectations of kindness. Or understand if this is romantic infatuation. Have at it, metafilter.
This post was deleted for the following reason: Poster's request -- restless_nomad
Response by poster: Oh no! That was like five days ago, it was a joke. I was being light hearted! Like about being a "chicken little" about emotional conflict. No no, it's ok!
posted by karmachameleon at 2:39 AM on July 12, 2019
posted by karmachameleon at 2:39 AM on July 12, 2019
A lot of people tolerate behavior in friendships that they don't tolerate in romantic relationships because they default to having one primary romantic relationship that they expect to meet 80% of their emotional needs, and it hurts a lot more to be hurt by THAT person than by less-important relationships.
You, however, are feel that level of intense need for approval from this platonic relationship. (I approve; I think as a society we downplay the possibilities in non-romantic relationships!) So it's reasonable to make similar decisions/ have similar standards as you would in a romantic relationship. Since you are open to multiple important relationships, however, you might be able to shift your thinking so each individual relationship doesn't have to be as "perfect" as you would demand from a single primary partner. Since they're not your only option for emotional support, you may be able to learn not to take their faults/ errors as hard.
OR you might decide that what happened was a dealbreaker, irregardless of what type of relationship it happened in. I recommend, though, if you haven't already, having a direct conversation about the types of behaviors you expect in your relationship. This is useful in friendships as well as in romantic partnerships, and is sometimes even more helpful because we have fewer defined social assumptions about what platonic relationships include.
Also keep in mind that it doesn't have to be an all-or-nothing thing. You might decide you want this friendship, but to withdraw some of your vulnerability; etc.
posted by metasarah at 3:41 AM on July 12, 2019 [3 favorites]
You, however, are feel that level of intense need for approval from this platonic relationship. (I approve; I think as a society we downplay the possibilities in non-romantic relationships!) So it's reasonable to make similar decisions/ have similar standards as you would in a romantic relationship. Since you are open to multiple important relationships, however, you might be able to shift your thinking so each individual relationship doesn't have to be as "perfect" as you would demand from a single primary partner. Since they're not your only option for emotional support, you may be able to learn not to take their faults/ errors as hard.
OR you might decide that what happened was a dealbreaker, irregardless of what type of relationship it happened in. I recommend, though, if you haven't already, having a direct conversation about the types of behaviors you expect in your relationship. This is useful in friendships as well as in romantic partnerships, and is sometimes even more helpful because we have fewer defined social assumptions about what platonic relationships include.
Also keep in mind that it doesn't have to be an all-or-nothing thing. You might decide you want this friendship, but to withdraw some of your vulnerability; etc.
posted by metasarah at 3:41 AM on July 12, 2019 [3 favorites]
Figuring out boundaries of a friend versus date ... it's hard to know if I'm doing it right.
Personally I don't think anybody who tries to figure out boundaries of a friend vs a date is doing it right. This whole business of putting each person we have any kind of relationship with into some kind of relationship category, then trying to figure out when they have broken the rules that we maintain internally for relationships in that category, has always struck me as a kind of scaffolding for learning how to adult properly that's best left behind as we exit our teen years.
It breaks my heart every time, watching high-school kids spending hundreds of hours agonizing over this shit, trying to work out some pseudo-objective set of Relationship Rules to rely on when navigating the adult world. Is he Boyfriend Material or Just A Friend? Is she my Friend or my Best Friend? Are we Going Out or Just Seeing Each Other? If I don't show up to his football match, are we still Best Mates? It never fucking ends, and it's all completely fucking pointless, because every relationship between two people is unique and the only reliably applicable rule is that there aren't any others.
Advice appreciated.
My best advice to you is that you do your level best to stop trying to fit this person into some preconceived category like Friend or Date or Crush. Instead, just let them be who they are. The only relevant question you ever need to be asking yourself about this or any relationship is, do I feel like interacting with this person right now, what are the likely consequences if I do, what are the likely consequences if I don't, and which set of consequences would I rather live with? And this is a question whose answer will constantly change over time, sometimes from month to month and sometimes from minute to minute, and that is OK.
In other words: never mind what they are. Concentrate on who they are and respond to that in ways that preserve your own integrity. Treat each relationship you have as the unique thing that it actually is instead of some exemplar of a Type.
Incidentally: our only obligation to any other adult is to do the best we possibly can to keep any promises we've made to them. Other than that, just do as you feel moved to do while keeping within the boundaries they set for you, apologize as soon as possible whenever you accidentally overstep those and only then, and you won't go far wrong for too long.
Truth be told, I feel really unable to name a single person who I'm sure cares about me.
Truth be told, as long as you are included in that set then more will go right with you than wrong with you.
posted by flabdablet at 5:24 AM on July 12, 2019 [5 favorites]
Personally I don't think anybody who tries to figure out boundaries of a friend vs a date is doing it right. This whole business of putting each person we have any kind of relationship with into some kind of relationship category, then trying to figure out when they have broken the rules that we maintain internally for relationships in that category, has always struck me as a kind of scaffolding for learning how to adult properly that's best left behind as we exit our teen years.
It breaks my heart every time, watching high-school kids spending hundreds of hours agonizing over this shit, trying to work out some pseudo-objective set of Relationship Rules to rely on when navigating the adult world. Is he Boyfriend Material or Just A Friend? Is she my Friend or my Best Friend? Are we Going Out or Just Seeing Each Other? If I don't show up to his football match, are we still Best Mates? It never fucking ends, and it's all completely fucking pointless, because every relationship between two people is unique and the only reliably applicable rule is that there aren't any others.
Advice appreciated.
My best advice to you is that you do your level best to stop trying to fit this person into some preconceived category like Friend or Date or Crush. Instead, just let them be who they are. The only relevant question you ever need to be asking yourself about this or any relationship is, do I feel like interacting with this person right now, what are the likely consequences if I do, what are the likely consequences if I don't, and which set of consequences would I rather live with? And this is a question whose answer will constantly change over time, sometimes from month to month and sometimes from minute to minute, and that is OK.
In other words: never mind what they are. Concentrate on who they are and respond to that in ways that preserve your own integrity. Treat each relationship you have as the unique thing that it actually is instead of some exemplar of a Type.
Incidentally: our only obligation to any other adult is to do the best we possibly can to keep any promises we've made to them. Other than that, just do as you feel moved to do while keeping within the boundaries they set for you, apologize as soon as possible whenever you accidentally overstep those and only then, and you won't go far wrong for too long.
Truth be told, I feel really unable to name a single person who I'm sure cares about me.
Truth be told, as long as you are included in that set then more will go right with you than wrong with you.
posted by flabdablet at 5:24 AM on July 12, 2019 [5 favorites]
I would have a hard time maintaining a friendship with someone who used the silent treatment and vulnerable moments as ammunition in a fight. Plus, the resentment you describe will slowly rot the friendship from the inside out. You can try to talk about that and see how she responds and if she changes her behavior.
How to make and be a friend
posted by bunderful at 5:27 AM on July 12, 2019 [2 favorites]
How to make and be a friend
posted by bunderful at 5:27 AM on July 12, 2019 [2 favorites]
I think one of the hazards of moving really quickly towards intimacy with someone is that you start sharing very personal things with someone who you don’t actually know very well. Which means that they are more likely to respond at some point in a way that you find jarring or upsetting. This is even more likely if you are creating some kind of test for the new person, like you say that you were doing with her.
So, my advice would be to slow down a bit and stop trying to test people. I understand that emotional intimacy is important to you, but it’s unclear to me if you understand that emotional intimacy can develop/exist without the sort of love-bombing/limerance that you’re describing as a necessary part of your relationships.
posted by colfax at 5:58 AM on July 12, 2019 [11 favorites]
So, my advice would be to slow down a bit and stop trying to test people. I understand that emotional intimacy is important to you, but it’s unclear to me if you understand that emotional intimacy can develop/exist without the sort of love-bombing/limerance that you’re describing as a necessary part of your relationships.
posted by colfax at 5:58 AM on July 12, 2019 [11 favorites]
Worse, she withdrew about it for a whole day as I grew more frantic, texted with a mutual friend for hours, gobbled xanax, and generally couldn't deal. I hate the silent treatment and it ended with a sobbing conversation on both our ends, and then her paypalling me several hundred dollars (I had a huge project paid by the hour and was frantically trying to get her attention but really couldn't cope - on hearing this she just sent the money out of affection. I am very stressed about money - and lots of other things, for legitimate reasons. I will return it).
this is an unhealthy friendship for her. not fatally unhealthy; I am not opposed to drama in any of its forms as long as the participants get something out of it. but the qualities in her that prompted her to make whatever unkind joke you blame for your emotional spiral, inability to work, and inability to go for a day without profound and draining emotional interchanges are the same qualities that make her willing to tolerate such a relationship; willing to respond to the claim that you couldn't work because she was mean to you by accepting this characterization of events and sending you money to compensate. it's great that you're returning the money but the dialogue prompting her to send it remains an issue.
This is a problem because if and when you find yourself able to draw a sharp line between acceptable and unacceptable behavior with a friend like this, she probably will, too. people who don't have at least one antisocial habit of their own that causes problems in interpersonal relationships -- such as habitually saying mean things as jokes and writing it off as simply part of their personality -- also don't tolerate behavior like yours from other people as a regular part of friendship.
you have the right to decide that you want a friendship where you test the other person to "see if she would comfort me" and all the rest . but the people who will go along with that and not set boundaries of their own are not going to be models of emotional health. they can still be terrific friends, but they will not be better to you than you are to them.
posted by queenofbithynia at 6:50 AM on July 12, 2019 [9 favorites]
this is an unhealthy friendship for her. not fatally unhealthy; I am not opposed to drama in any of its forms as long as the participants get something out of it. but the qualities in her that prompted her to make whatever unkind joke you blame for your emotional spiral, inability to work, and inability to go for a day without profound and draining emotional interchanges are the same qualities that make her willing to tolerate such a relationship; willing to respond to the claim that you couldn't work because she was mean to you by accepting this characterization of events and sending you money to compensate. it's great that you're returning the money but the dialogue prompting her to send it remains an issue.
This is a problem because if and when you find yourself able to draw a sharp line between acceptable and unacceptable behavior with a friend like this, she probably will, too. people who don't have at least one antisocial habit of their own that causes problems in interpersonal relationships -- such as habitually saying mean things as jokes and writing it off as simply part of their personality -- also don't tolerate behavior like yours from other people as a regular part of friendship.
you have the right to decide that you want a friendship where you test the other person to "see if she would comfort me" and all the rest . but the people who will go along with that and not set boundaries of their own are not going to be models of emotional health. they can still be terrific friends, but they will not be better to you than you are to them.
posted by queenofbithynia at 6:50 AM on July 12, 2019 [9 favorites]
You’re saying a few things that give me pause here: describing incredibly frequent and intense contact as being a “passionate friend” or receiving “emotional support.” Both those things are great! But at the same time I’m concerned about your intensity—you’re likely to exhaust your friends, or make them feel crowded...even if they’re great, passionate and supportive friends. I think this behavior is part of what you need to examine in therapy; seconding whoever mentioned DBT.
posted by chesty_a_arthur at 7:30 AM on July 12, 2019 [2 favorites]
posted by chesty_a_arthur at 7:30 AM on July 12, 2019 [2 favorites]
I don't like your response to how gobbling Xanax was a joke. None of your post sounds like a joke, but it does sound like someone who would impulsively do a bad thing. That worries me! Anyway, please do take care of yourself. (edit: Reflexively denying a thing is something I have often done when I wasn't strong enough to be myself or take on the responsibility of my words and feelings. But that's just me. I have done my best to learn from this because after I did the reflexive denial, I felt only shame and bad whereas if I took responsibility, it hurt in a smaller way but I felt stronger after. And I never felt ashamed though regretful. Regret is a productive emotion often as it implies learning, shame is never productive.)
On to the main topic... Your series of rules will be broken by a person eventually because they're not clear and they're the equivalent to emotionally dancing through security lasers to steal a diamond. The lasers are invisible to the person too so they often won't even bother trying to contort themselves.
You are putting your entire identity into people which just isn't healthy. This sounds incredibly codependent. It's interesting that you can spot what you think is your one point of trauma from long ago but not move past it. Why do you think that is? I would explore that in therapy. When I've done a similar thing, it's been an excuse that I can wield like a torch to scare off or righteously crusade against some injustice against me. These were false things I believed and I used it only to hurt other people or myself. It was never the actual trauma or if it was, it was long ago and capable of being examined like a snowglobe and put in a drawer labeled "Lessons on how to have good boundaries."
This would not be a healthy friendship or relationship from your description. The "cutting comment" and "silent treatment" are not why I'm saying that. It's the intensity of the emotions and rules.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 7:52 AM on July 12, 2019 [4 favorites]
On to the main topic... Your series of rules will be broken by a person eventually because they're not clear and they're the equivalent to emotionally dancing through security lasers to steal a diamond. The lasers are invisible to the person too so they often won't even bother trying to contort themselves.
You are putting your entire identity into people which just isn't healthy. This sounds incredibly codependent. It's interesting that you can spot what you think is your one point of trauma from long ago but not move past it. Why do you think that is? I would explore that in therapy. When I've done a similar thing, it's been an excuse that I can wield like a torch to scare off or righteously crusade against some injustice against me. These were false things I believed and I used it only to hurt other people or myself. It was never the actual trauma or if it was, it was long ago and capable of being examined like a snowglobe and put in a drawer labeled "Lessons on how to have good boundaries."
This would not be a healthy friendship or relationship from your description. The "cutting comment" and "silent treatment" are not why I'm saying that. It's the intensity of the emotions and rules.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 7:52 AM on July 12, 2019 [4 favorites]
Openness and vulnerability are great qualities in a friend. I feel closer to someone if they are comfortable sharing their thoughts, dreams, and fears with me. But, being open-hearted is not the same thing as putting your heart in someone else's hands. It sounds like you are giving this friend a lot of responsibility for your well-being.
I'm not sure if I'm reading this right, but it sounds like this may have all happened over text during the work day. When your friend was not responding to you, was she at work -- and being responsible to other people? Could it be that your friend needed some time to process what she did and how you reacted in order to respond to you in a genuine way? Is there anything your friend could have said or done after hurting you that would have fixed the day for you?
posted by esker at 8:30 AM on July 12, 2019 [1 favorite]
I'm not sure if I'm reading this right, but it sounds like this may have all happened over text during the work day. When your friend was not responding to you, was she at work -- and being responsible to other people? Could it be that your friend needed some time to process what she did and how you reacted in order to respond to you in a genuine way? Is there anything your friend could have said or done after hurting you that would have fixed the day for you?
posted by esker at 8:30 AM on July 12, 2019 [1 favorite]
I'm not even a very clingy dater to be honest, but ever since high school, my female on female friendships have been love-like.
In fact, she reminds me of a girl in high school, poor little high school karmachameleon got her heart trounced by this by this person. All of my anxieties and tastes in relationships - hating the silent treatment especially! - were formed by this proto lesbian crush. (It was a crush - and the reason there were no others!). I will be fully honest, whenever a prospective mate reminds me of that girl, I cross him off the list. Whenever they are available and kind unlike this girl, I feel a flush of relief. It's true. No doubt many people have been punished for the sins of this original person.
Sorry if this is totally off-base... but it sounds to me like you may be in denial about your sexual identity.
If I'm correctly interpreting "there were no others" as "there were no other female crushes," then I would say you are wrong about that. I think you have a crush on this friend and are twisting yourself into knots trying to justify it as a "passionate friendship."
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:41 AM on July 12, 2019 [1 favorite]
In fact, she reminds me of a girl in high school, poor little high school karmachameleon got her heart trounced by this by this person. All of my anxieties and tastes in relationships - hating the silent treatment especially! - were formed by this proto lesbian crush. (It was a crush - and the reason there were no others!). I will be fully honest, whenever a prospective mate reminds me of that girl, I cross him off the list. Whenever they are available and kind unlike this girl, I feel a flush of relief. It's true. No doubt many people have been punished for the sins of this original person.
Sorry if this is totally off-base... but it sounds to me like you may be in denial about your sexual identity.
If I'm correctly interpreting "there were no others" as "there were no other female crushes," then I would say you are wrong about that. I think you have a crush on this friend and are twisting yourself into knots trying to justify it as a "passionate friendship."
posted by showbiz_liz at 8:41 AM on July 12, 2019 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: These responses are really heartfelt and I'm enjoying all of them. Be gentle though, people! I'm not testing anyone. I'm not love bombing. I don't have a cluster B personality disorder. I'm not an unhealthy friend. Let's assume that all is basically sound about me, and the friendship.
My issue I guess is that - I can't tell if her joke is genuinely a communication. I mean, of course it is. But in wracking my brain about whether she's conveying sexual jealousy, that I'm too selfish of a friend, that she needs to be able to joke around about everything... (there are a variety of options!), I'm getting all nervous. And the silent treatment was simply not ok. I'm going through a really large serious life event, and what made me cry was more the notion that I'd failed to perform as a friend by not being perfect or by needing support. We all have these issues! I think essentially that aspect of the friendship is sound and healthy.
People who are hard on me sound a little... responding to specific features of the situation, not to the whole. But I really appreciate all the responses nonetheless.
I guess ideally, together with a cooling off period, I want to find out what she was playing at through this joke, and how I can understand and interpret that behavior in the future. Through a non- "I'm a baddie" mode. Since apparently this is something she does in general with friends. I'm really thrilled to be friends with someone similarly... let's not say needy, let's say artistic temperament-ed, that's closer to the truth.
Keep them rolling but please do be aware, I think we ladies are both enjoying this friendship greatly, we love each other platonically but are not in love. I am quite happy and so is she. And I'm sorry about the xanax comment - but commentors have raised excellent points in general.
What I'd love is to be able to understand if her joke was a way of creating distance/space, as this is unhealthy. She can learn from this. I am being honest with her about the silent treatment. This week was bad for different reasons for me, the pressure was on, and she now understands that I'm not a person who enjoys space after a fight (our first fight!). So it's not all that toxic. Her way of telling jokes niggles though, because I don't want to get in a very common habit for me of being the butt of the joke in relationships.
posted by karmachameleon at 8:44 AM on July 12, 2019
My issue I guess is that - I can't tell if her joke is genuinely a communication. I mean, of course it is. But in wracking my brain about whether she's conveying sexual jealousy, that I'm too selfish of a friend, that she needs to be able to joke around about everything... (there are a variety of options!), I'm getting all nervous. And the silent treatment was simply not ok. I'm going through a really large serious life event, and what made me cry was more the notion that I'd failed to perform as a friend by not being perfect or by needing support. We all have these issues! I think essentially that aspect of the friendship is sound and healthy.
People who are hard on me sound a little... responding to specific features of the situation, not to the whole. But I really appreciate all the responses nonetheless.
I guess ideally, together with a cooling off period, I want to find out what she was playing at through this joke, and how I can understand and interpret that behavior in the future. Through a non- "I'm a baddie" mode. Since apparently this is something she does in general with friends. I'm really thrilled to be friends with someone similarly... let's not say needy, let's say artistic temperament-ed, that's closer to the truth.
Keep them rolling but please do be aware, I think we ladies are both enjoying this friendship greatly, we love each other platonically but are not in love. I am quite happy and so is she. And I'm sorry about the xanax comment - but commentors have raised excellent points in general.
What I'd love is to be able to understand if her joke was a way of creating distance/space, as this is unhealthy. She can learn from this. I am being honest with her about the silent treatment. This week was bad for different reasons for me, the pressure was on, and she now understands that I'm not a person who enjoys space after a fight (our first fight!). So it's not all that toxic. Her way of telling jokes niggles though, because I don't want to get in a very common habit for me of being the butt of the joke in relationships.
posted by karmachameleon at 8:44 AM on July 12, 2019
To me, your post is a mass of contradictions. You are not dating this person, but much of your post is about your dating style/people you’ve dated. You’re not clingy, but you are jealous. You posted a wall of info but now want us only to consider the parts most relevant to your narrative.
Repeatedly texting, discussing it with another friend for hours, gobbling Xanax, none of these are good or effective coping mechanisms at all, regardless of the situation. It’s shitty that your friend teased you, and then laughed about it. That would make me pretty angry. But your response to her seems off the charts. And her Paypalling you money is wildly inappropriate.
Now, after your update, I honestly have no idea what you're asking us. Without knowing the joke she made, it's hard to help you understand it. My advice to you would be to learn some better coping mechanisms to deal with things as they happen, because the only person's motives you can truly know are your own.
posted by lyssabee at 8:56 AM on July 12, 2019 [1 favorite]
Repeatedly texting, discussing it with another friend for hours, gobbling Xanax, none of these are good or effective coping mechanisms at all, regardless of the situation. It’s shitty that your friend teased you, and then laughed about it. That would make me pretty angry. But your response to her seems off the charts. And her Paypalling you money is wildly inappropriate.
Now, after your update, I honestly have no idea what you're asking us. Without knowing the joke she made, it's hard to help you understand it. My advice to you would be to learn some better coping mechanisms to deal with things as they happen, because the only person's motives you can truly know are your own.
posted by lyssabee at 8:56 AM on July 12, 2019 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Liz, you’re correct not off base at all. My friend erm “took my purity” in the f/f sexual sense. This is part of my identity that’s been closeted I’m letting it out, I’m bi. All right so it’s not totally platonic but perhaps there are too many details here. The point is yes you’re correct.
I’m sorry everyone. You’re right this is a personal question - yikes. I will ask the mods to take it down. I am picking up on so much irritation and it seems to be that answers are more negative toward me, calling me irresponsible etc. if I can request someone take this down - I’m sorry. I can’t fight all these arguments my question was more how to talk to my friend about her comment which hurt my feelings, but on top of that people seem to strongly be recommending various penances and therapies
posted by karmachameleon at 8:57 AM on July 12, 2019
I’m sorry everyone. You’re right this is a personal question - yikes. I will ask the mods to take it down. I am picking up on so much irritation and it seems to be that answers are more negative toward me, calling me irresponsible etc. if I can request someone take this down - I’m sorry. I can’t fight all these arguments my question was more how to talk to my friend about her comment which hurt my feelings, but on top of that people seem to strongly be recommending various penances and therapies
posted by karmachameleon at 8:57 AM on July 12, 2019
Response by poster: Please someone take this down - at the risk of drawing yet another round of personal critiques. If I can ask people to stop responding it would be so gracious.
posted by karmachameleon at 9:03 AM on July 12, 2019
posted by karmachameleon at 9:03 AM on July 12, 2019
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posted by mundo at 2:37 AM on July 12, 2019 [2 favorites]