What to do about ridiculous Court Demands?
February 27, 2006 12:40 PM
I caused a very small car accident last month (no damage to the other car). I was required to report in court. Rather than just paying a fine, because I'm under 21 they are requiring me to go through this program called Teens Learning Control. It consists of lots of 4 hour seminars, 1 test, and 8 hours of community service. I'm 19, a full time college student, and also working full-time as a web designer in a design firm. I have no time to do any of this and the whole situations is ridiculous. I'm not asking to completely get off scott free. Why can't I just pay a fine. What are my options? Any Advice? I have to report back to court on march 30th with the program completed.
Its impossible for me to meet the demands, I'll loose my job
posted by icespide at 12:44 PM on February 27, 2006
posted by icespide at 12:44 PM on February 27, 2006
It's one of the many, many responsibilities that come with a license and a vehicle. cellphone is right, talk to a lawyer. Given the severity of the accident you might convince a sympathetic judge to waive the program and simply pay the fine.
posted by purephase at 12:46 PM on February 27, 2006
posted by purephase at 12:46 PM on February 27, 2006
I thoght that just getting into an accident isn't an infraction. Were you doing something illegal when the accident occured?
posted by lpctstr; at 12:47 PM on February 27, 2006
posted by lpctstr; at 12:47 PM on February 27, 2006
You should also mention the country, city, state you live in...
posted by cellphone at 12:49 PM on February 27, 2006
posted by cellphone at 12:49 PM on February 27, 2006
Can you do it if it's spread out over more time? Most judges don't try to be total jerks (and some do), so if you plead your case, they might give you an extension to 90 days. Or even 180. It does seem kind of draconian.
posted by clarkstonian at 12:51 PM on February 27, 2006
posted by clarkstonian at 12:51 PM on February 27, 2006
Can you get by without a drivers license? If not, then I would talk to a lawyer. Maybe because you are a student, working, etc, you could get this all postponed until the summer.
posted by alms at 12:52 PM on February 27, 2006
posted by alms at 12:52 PM on February 27, 2006
Maybe talk to your boss and see if they can modify your hours. I'm sure he won't make you loose your job. Life sucks but there are some obligations that are priorities regardless of how they impact other things. The only other option may be to lose your license until you are either past the age when it matters or until you have more time to take the classes?
posted by JJ86 at 12:52 PM on February 27, 2006
posted by JJ86 at 12:52 PM on February 27, 2006
The thing that gets me is there were several people over 21 that had gotten in worse accidents or done something worse just paid $88 and was done with it. Because I'm under 21 it has to ruin my life for 2 months. I'm not some pot smoking punk kid. I've been living on my own for almost 3 years, I've got no priors, 3.9 gpa in school. I work hard, I don't deserve this.
posted by icespide at 12:54 PM on February 27, 2006
posted by icespide at 12:54 PM on February 27, 2006
Do you have vacation time? Use it.
posted by nathan_teske at 12:58 PM on February 27, 2006
posted by nathan_teske at 12:58 PM on February 27, 2006
I usually do a little research before saying anything, but I am pressed for time right now, and may follow up on this later, but many states have public policy exceptions to their 'employment at will' laws, which prevent employers from firing their employees for complying with a court order, or doing jury duty. This may be something that you can inform your boss of if he tries to fire you for going to this class.
On another note, it may be ridiculous. It may be a waste of time. It may be inconvenient. It may even be unfair. However, I guarantee you that if you don't go to this class, that you will kick yourself for years down the line for having to go through the consequences that this court will bring down on your head for not doing it. You can avoid that by just going to the class.
posted by ND¢ at 12:59 PM on February 27, 2006
On another note, it may be ridiculous. It may be a waste of time. It may be inconvenient. It may even be unfair. However, I guarantee you that if you don't go to this class, that you will kick yourself for years down the line for having to go through the consequences that this court will bring down on your head for not doing it. You can avoid that by just going to the class.
posted by ND¢ at 12:59 PM on February 27, 2006
I suggest you report back to the court on March 30th with the course completed.
posted by unSane at 1:02 PM on February 27, 2006
posted by unSane at 1:02 PM on February 27, 2006
So i gather everyone just thinks I'm trying to get out of doing anything.
Wonderful
posted by icespide at 1:04 PM on February 27, 2006
Wonderful
posted by icespide at 1:04 PM on February 27, 2006
I was previously going to suggest you ask the judge for leniency based on hardship, but based on your attitude I don't think asking the judge for anything would be a good idea.
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:08 PM on February 27, 2006
posted by Faint of Butt at 1:08 PM on February 27, 2006
icespide writes "I work hard, I don't deserve this."
Don't say this to the judge. Yes talk to the court to see if you can arrange an extension. Otherwise you'll have to do it, judging by the drinking laws of the US this kind of age discrimination is perfectly legal.
posted by Mitheral at 1:09 PM on February 27, 2006
Don't say this to the judge. Yes talk to the court to see if you can arrange an extension. Otherwise you'll have to do it, judging by the drinking laws of the US this kind of age discrimination is perfectly legal.
posted by Mitheral at 1:09 PM on February 27, 2006
icespide... you should try talking to the people at the traffic court and see if there's a way to extend the program or just pay a fine. In my younger days, I'd get into similar situations and was surprised they were willing to be so flexible. If the laws for under 21 drivers are now so punitive since the state leg overacted, you might be hosed.
Good luck.
posted by birdherder at 1:11 PM on February 27, 2006
Good luck.
posted by birdherder at 1:11 PM on February 27, 2006
IANAL, but I did have my one auto accident in Georgia when I was 19. Luckily, I worked for a law firm at the time. First, get a lawyer. I can get you in contact with a few if you email me. Consequences will be a lot lighter if you try to mend this before March 30th rather than after. What the lawyer can try to do is write a letter to the county clerk either asking for an extension or requesting alternate punishment. You can even try doing this yourself.
Actually, better yet, call the clerk's office and explain very clearly your working hours and your schedule and try to work out an alternative. The Fulton County clerk's website sucks right now, so just call the general number. The idea is to check your options before March 30th, rather than after.
posted by Alison at 1:16 PM on February 27, 2006
Actually, better yet, call the clerk's office and explain very clearly your working hours and your schedule and try to work out an alternative. The Fulton County clerk's website sucks right now, so just call the general number. The idea is to check your options before March 30th, rather than after.
posted by Alison at 1:16 PM on February 27, 2006
So i gather everyone just thinks I'm trying to get out of doing anything.
I don't. I think you're trying to get out of traffic school by paying $88 for the inconvenience of maybe nearly killing somebody. The nature of motor vehicle crashes is that it's usually just dumb luck and chaotic physics that somebody doesn't have their car written off, get seriously injured or die.
The fact that you admit causing it, but still call it an "accident", and the fact that you think your GPA has something to do with your driving competency and whether you're deserving of judicial intervention speaks volumes. The court has an obligation to protect society. It's not like this was your first incident in 30 years of driving. You're a 19-yo male who's already caused a crash. As far as the court is concerned, you're a statistic waiting to happen. Suck it up and go back to school.
posted by obiwanwasabi at 1:21 PM on February 27, 2006
I don't. I think you're trying to get out of traffic school by paying $88 for the inconvenience of maybe nearly killing somebody. The nature of motor vehicle crashes is that it's usually just dumb luck and chaotic physics that somebody doesn't have their car written off, get seriously injured or die.
The fact that you admit causing it, but still call it an "accident", and the fact that you think your GPA has something to do with your driving competency and whether you're deserving of judicial intervention speaks volumes. The court has an obligation to protect society. It's not like this was your first incident in 30 years of driving. You're a 19-yo male who's already caused a crash. As far as the court is concerned, you're a statistic waiting to happen. Suck it up and go back to school.
posted by obiwanwasabi at 1:21 PM on February 27, 2006
Wait a second -- you have about four weeks to do something that will take 12 hours to do? Find the time. Do it. It's not extreme. Suck it up and welcome to adulthood.
And how exactly is the court able to make you do something if you weren't in some way breaking the law? Simply causing an accident isn't against the law -- your insurance would go up, but the cops don't need to get involved. You're leaving out part of the story here. And when you come here looking for sympathy, just know that sometimes you'll get a rap on the knuckles instead.
posted by incessant at 1:24 PM on February 27, 2006
And how exactly is the court able to make you do something if you weren't in some way breaking the law? Simply causing an accident isn't against the law -- your insurance would go up, but the cops don't need to get involved. You're leaving out part of the story here. And when you come here looking for sympathy, just know that sometimes you'll get a rap on the knuckles instead.
posted by incessant at 1:24 PM on February 27, 2006
icespide - you're young. Two things to keep in mind: judges are people, too; and they wield a great deal of power.
They really do expect some respect. If they don't get it, they can slap you down hard. But they understand about school schedules and jobs. You aren't the first person to come before them with similar problems, I promise you.
Don't go in with an attitude, and don't go in angry. You won't impress them. You are in the wrong here (even if it's a fairly small wrong). If you're contrite and humble (be humble, even if it gags you), you'll come out better than if you say it's not fair or you didn't do anything. The reason why they focus on people under 21 is - they cause most of the accidents. Why don't they focus on people over 65? Because they're richer and more powerful, and they vote.
posted by clarkstonian at 1:24 PM on February 27, 2006
They really do expect some respect. If they don't get it, they can slap you down hard. But they understand about school schedules and jobs. You aren't the first person to come before them with similar problems, I promise you.
Don't go in with an attitude, and don't go in angry. You won't impress them. You are in the wrong here (even if it's a fairly small wrong). If you're contrite and humble (be humble, even if it gags you), you'll come out better than if you say it's not fair or you didn't do anything. The reason why they focus on people under 21 is - they cause most of the accidents. Why don't they focus on people over 65? Because they're richer and more powerful, and they vote.
posted by clarkstonian at 1:24 PM on February 27, 2006
icespide, I think you need to look for help somewhere that is more familiar with the way the traffic courts work in your juristiction. That could be a local attorney, probably cheapest to use one who specializes in traffic offenses, or it could be a local forum where you can ask for people's anecdotal experience.
You definitely shouldn't wait until the 30th to take steps to communicate with the court resolve this.
posted by Good Brain at 1:28 PM on February 27, 2006
You definitely shouldn't wait until the 30th to take steps to communicate with the court resolve this.
posted by Good Brain at 1:28 PM on February 27, 2006
nthed about taking care of this asap. Don't mess around with driving related fines. I got busted for driving after suspension for not paying a ticket i thought was total bullshit. 800 dollars later i have my car and my license back. Even if you can't argue your way to a fine, doing the time will be a lot easier on you in the long run.
posted by baphomet at 1:29 PM on February 27, 2006
posted by baphomet at 1:29 PM on February 27, 2006
Don't go in with an attitude, and don't go in angry. You won't impress them. You are in the wrong here (even if it's a fairly small wrong). If you're contrite and humble (be humble, even if it gags you), you'll come out better than if you say it's not fair or you didn't do anything.
Actually, better yet, call the clerk's office and explain very clearly your working hours and your schedule and try to work out an alternative. The Fulton County clerk's website sucks right now, so just call the general number. The idea is to check your options before March 30th, rather than after.
These are the two best pieces of advice here. They boil down to 1) Don't be a dick and 2) Explore all your options through normal channels.
posted by frogan at 1:31 PM on February 27, 2006
Actually, better yet, call the clerk's office and explain very clearly your working hours and your schedule and try to work out an alternative. The Fulton County clerk's website sucks right now, so just call the general number. The idea is to check your options before March 30th, rather than after.
These are the two best pieces of advice here. They boil down to 1) Don't be a dick and 2) Explore all your options through normal channels.
posted by frogan at 1:31 PM on February 27, 2006
Wait a second -- you have about four weeks to do something that will take 12 hours to do? Find the time. Do it. It's not extreme. Suck it up and welcome to adulthood.
Exactly. You can't find any time to do this? Sure, the laws for young drivers in Atlanta may be silly, but you knew the consequences (or should have known) when you received your license. Don't see your friends, talk to your employer and professors about your situation, and do the measly 12 hours.
posted by meerkatty at 1:34 PM on February 27, 2006
Exactly. You can't find any time to do this? Sure, the laws for young drivers in Atlanta may be silly, but you knew the consequences (or should have known) when you received your license. Don't see your friends, talk to your employer and professors about your situation, and do the measly 12 hours.
posted by meerkatty at 1:34 PM on February 27, 2006
Don't be a dick.
Yes. I think the people who control your fate will be much more sympathetic if you really work on your attitude, and try to sound contrite, understanding, and respectful. Don't tell them they're stupid, tell them you're trying to do the right thing and be a responsible member of society. You'll get further that way.
posted by alms at 1:39 PM on February 27, 2006
Yes. I think the people who control your fate will be much more sympathetic if you really work on your attitude, and try to sound contrite, understanding, and respectful. Don't tell them they're stupid, tell them you're trying to do the right thing and be a responsible member of society. You'll get further that way.
posted by alms at 1:39 PM on February 27, 2006
While you may be right that people in this thread are unfairly biased against you, and they are, it is also true that the judge is most likely going to be biased against you. You have to see it this way, the judge is the one with the power, and how are you going to convince him/her to help you?
By snapping back against age discrimination, you invite more age discrimination. Sometimes you have to pay your dues in life to get to where you want to be. I'm not saying suck it up and do the program. What I am saying is suck it up and deal with it, as the more reasonable people have said in this thread. Talk to the people handling the case, ask them what you can do. No one on here can give you any better advice than that.
Fact is that whether or not you have supported ten orphan children while holding down 8 jobs and getting 2 bachelors degrees and a Ph.D., if you are 19, you are not a full adult in the eyes of the law. Especially so, it seems, in your jurisdiction. The sooner you realize that and accept it, the easier this will be for you. There is no "fair" answer, there is only the pragmatic one, which is to take steps to deal with the problem in an alternative way, or suck it up and go to the classes.
If you don't, you'll be looking at more fines, revocation of license, which may or may not result in firing from job, having to drop out of school, and jail time in the end for driving without a license too many times.
Are you willing to go through that because you don't deserve this?
posted by zhivota at 1:45 PM on February 27, 2006
By snapping back against age discrimination, you invite more age discrimination. Sometimes you have to pay your dues in life to get to where you want to be. I'm not saying suck it up and do the program. What I am saying is suck it up and deal with it, as the more reasonable people have said in this thread. Talk to the people handling the case, ask them what you can do. No one on here can give you any better advice than that.
Fact is that whether or not you have supported ten orphan children while holding down 8 jobs and getting 2 bachelors degrees and a Ph.D., if you are 19, you are not a full adult in the eyes of the law. Especially so, it seems, in your jurisdiction. The sooner you realize that and accept it, the easier this will be for you. There is no "fair" answer, there is only the pragmatic one, which is to take steps to deal with the problem in an alternative way, or suck it up and go to the classes.
If you don't, you'll be looking at more fines, revocation of license, which may or may not result in firing from job, having to drop out of school, and jail time in the end for driving without a license too many times.
Are you willing to go through that because you don't deserve this?
posted by zhivota at 1:45 PM on February 27, 2006
I agree that the only way to deal with this is to talk to the court, possibly with the help of a lawyer.
The sentence included well over 12 hours of time; note the "several 4-hour seminars."
And in response to several questions above, icespide was ticketed for improper lane change.
posted by mbrubeck at 1:48 PM on February 27, 2006
The sentence included well over 12 hours of time; note the "several 4-hour seminars."
And in response to several questions above, icespide was ticketed for improper lane change.
posted by mbrubeck at 1:48 PM on February 27, 2006
Before seeing a lawyer, definitely give the clerk's office a call. If there's a straightforward mechanism for getting an extension on the time you have to take the class, they'll be able to let you know.
Tangentially... a driver's training class consisting only of seminars seems useless; it must be mostly punative. If they were actually interested in improving the driving skills of those "Teens Learning Control", they'd give them practical behind-the-wheel training. I think everyone should take more behind-the-wheel lessons than is generally required, anyway. Driving is hard, and we do people a disservice by throwing them on the road with inadequate training.
posted by mr_roboto at 2:01 PM on February 27, 2006
Tangentially... a driver's training class consisting only of seminars seems useless; it must be mostly punative. If they were actually interested in improving the driving skills of those "Teens Learning Control", they'd give them practical behind-the-wheel training. I think everyone should take more behind-the-wheel lessons than is generally required, anyway. Driving is hard, and we do people a disservice by throwing them on the road with inadequate training.
posted by mr_roboto at 2:01 PM on February 27, 2006
One thing that I have had to try and come to grips with since leaving home (a long time ago) is that life is not always fair.
Sometimes you do the fucking, sometimes you get fucked.
I have to agree with clarkstonian. Time to be humble. Suck it up and deal with it.
I do not say this with any spite or feelings of superiority. I have to do the same often, but one thing that I have learned is that if you get all worked up about what is 'fair' and 'right' and get all pissy with people who are in a position of authority, it is going to go much worse for you in the end. best to be pragmatic about it.
posted by TheFeatheredMullet at 2:02 PM on February 27, 2006
Sometimes you do the fucking, sometimes you get fucked.
I have to agree with clarkstonian. Time to be humble. Suck it up and deal with it.
I do not say this with any spite or feelings of superiority. I have to do the same often, but one thing that I have learned is that if you get all worked up about what is 'fair' and 'right' and get all pissy with people who are in a position of authority, it is going to go much worse for you in the end. best to be pragmatic about it.
posted by TheFeatheredMullet at 2:02 PM on February 27, 2006
How could you have caused an accident without doing anything illegal? Not speeding, or whatever, but if they found you at fault then you must have been doing something wrong.
Anyway, whatever you do don't just bail on the class, because that will suck. It's obviously not designed for full-time working adults, but rather for kids with lots of free time, so it's rather stupid that the cutoff is 21 and not 18, unfortunately, as you get older you'll learn that quite often laws are quite stupid, because only really unexceptional people ever want to work in local state government, yet that's where most of the laws that affect your lives are written.
posted by delmoi at 2:12 PM on February 27, 2006
Anyway, whatever you do don't just bail on the class, because that will suck. It's obviously not designed for full-time working adults, but rather for kids with lots of free time, so it's rather stupid that the cutoff is 21 and not 18, unfortunately, as you get older you'll learn that quite often laws are quite stupid, because only really unexceptional people ever want to work in local state government, yet that's where most of the laws that affect your lives are written.
posted by delmoi at 2:12 PM on February 27, 2006
If you don't think you have the $ for a lawyer, look into whether your school has an ombudsman (ombudsperson?) for the undergraduates. This is someone whose job it is to act on behalf of students, usually in on-campus matters, and gives free advice. Even though this is an off-campus matter, an ombudsman - or any dean or campus official - might know of resources and recourse.
If you really had just a minor, run-of-the-mill accident, then it should be easy to get advice from staff or faculty, as they would probably have encountered this before themselves.
posted by Sprout the Vulgarian at 2:14 PM on February 27, 2006
If you really had just a minor, run-of-the-mill accident, then it should be easy to get advice from staff or faculty, as they would probably have encountered this before themselves.
posted by Sprout the Vulgarian at 2:14 PM on February 27, 2006
There is no such thing as age descrimination prior to age 40. Atleast from a legal standpoint. I agree that some special program enforced locally for accidents caused by drivers under 21 is totally unfair. However, it's not illegal.
A lawyer will most likely not get you much. I suppose you could appeal, but if it's a local law and not just a court / judge policy, you are pretty much out of luck. Even if it could be appealed, it would likely take quite a bit of time talking with your lawyer, and appearances in court. Likely more time then taking the classes. And it'll certainly cost alot more.
So, follow the suggestions about talking to the court clerk about your schedule and other possibilities. But do NOT ask legal advice, or take any if they attempt to give some. They are not lawyers, and are not allowed to help you with lawyer stuff. I've had good and bad experinces with clerks. Hope yours turn out good.
You seem like a well intentioned young person who is doing well in life. Your boss likes that. They will not fire you for this. You are working at a design firm, not McDonalds. Talk to your boss, they'll schedule you off for the classes. They'll most likely be sympathic. Oh, show the court documentation, and don't give them a handwritten schedule, give them a copy of the class schedule with their letterhead on it. In case your boss in a little suspicious that the accident was worse then you are saying, this will ensure that there is no question as to why this has come about.
So, again, yes, it's unfair. Yes, it's legal. Yes, you better get your backside to those classes and get it completed before the deadline. You don't want a upset judge staring down at you. Even if you lost your job, you'd end up far worse then not going and possibly getting thrown in jail for an undetermined amount of time for disobeying a court order.
Sometimes life throws unfair crap at you, and you just have to deal with it and move on.
posted by Phynix at 2:17 PM on February 27, 2006
A lawyer will most likely not get you much. I suppose you could appeal, but if it's a local law and not just a court / judge policy, you are pretty much out of luck. Even if it could be appealed, it would likely take quite a bit of time talking with your lawyer, and appearances in court. Likely more time then taking the classes. And it'll certainly cost alot more.
So, follow the suggestions about talking to the court clerk about your schedule and other possibilities. But do NOT ask legal advice, or take any if they attempt to give some. They are not lawyers, and are not allowed to help you with lawyer stuff. I've had good and bad experinces with clerks. Hope yours turn out good.
You seem like a well intentioned young person who is doing well in life. Your boss likes that. They will not fire you for this. You are working at a design firm, not McDonalds. Talk to your boss, they'll schedule you off for the classes. They'll most likely be sympathic. Oh, show the court documentation, and don't give them a handwritten schedule, give them a copy of the class schedule with their letterhead on it. In case your boss in a little suspicious that the accident was worse then you are saying, this will ensure that there is no question as to why this has come about.
So, again, yes, it's unfair. Yes, it's legal. Yes, you better get your backside to those classes and get it completed before the deadline. You don't want a upset judge staring down at you. Even if you lost your job, you'd end up far worse then not going and possibly getting thrown in jail for an undetermined amount of time for disobeying a court order.
Sometimes life throws unfair crap at you, and you just have to deal with it and move on.
posted by Phynix at 2:17 PM on February 27, 2006
I don't like some responses here. Quite bluntly, the law considers everyone under 21 to be a trust fund kid able to drop everything and attend education classes. I think the idea and motives (i.e. education, teach them to be a better driver) are well intentioned but the execution causes bitterness seen here.
So here's what you do, call a driving lawyer up and ask for his advice. If your time is that valuable, then paying the lawyer fees shouldn't be a big deal (we're talking advice from a lawyer, which may be free -- not having him walk up with you to court unless need be). He'll probably tell you what your other options are and what can be obtained with minimal effort. It's somewhat important to at least talk to a lawyer, in less than an hour you'll learn all you need to know. He knows the "game" and alternatives of your town better than anyone else. If what you say is true (non-injury, no damage, no law broken) I'm having a hard time believing you'r even being punished -- so if you are he should be able to help you out.
Again, he might not be able to do anything at this point, but if it is as you say it is I have no doubt he can get you off much easier (or in a way that better fits your schedule).
Besides putting unnecessary financial burden on a full time college student who is trying to work his way is stupid, judges know this. They don't want to see you not making rent because you had to attend some hand-holding class.
posted by geoff. at 2:18 PM on February 27, 2006
So here's what you do, call a driving lawyer up and ask for his advice. If your time is that valuable, then paying the lawyer fees shouldn't be a big deal (we're talking advice from a lawyer, which may be free -- not having him walk up with you to court unless need be). He'll probably tell you what your other options are and what can be obtained with minimal effort. It's somewhat important to at least talk to a lawyer, in less than an hour you'll learn all you need to know. He knows the "game" and alternatives of your town better than anyone else. If what you say is true (non-injury, no damage, no law broken) I'm having a hard time believing you'r even being punished -- so if you are he should be able to help you out.
Again, he might not be able to do anything at this point, but if it is as you say it is I have no doubt he can get you off much easier (or in a way that better fits your schedule).
Besides putting unnecessary financial burden on a full time college student who is trying to work his way is stupid, judges know this. They don't want to see you not making rent because you had to attend some hand-holding class.
posted by geoff. at 2:18 PM on February 27, 2006
Improper lane change is a pretty common traffic charge post-accident; in this case it means "merging into another vehicle". Which is illegal. So you were doing something illegal, weren't you?
Many states have different rules for drivers who have been licensed less than X years. This is because drivers who have been licensed less than X years, particularly male drivers, cause most of the traffic accidents on the roads. Since you've caused an accident, you have to admit it's a fair rap.
Here's a parent complaining that the nice policeman stopped her daughter who was doing 1.6 times the speed limit. Her daughter, future organ donor, is probably pissed just like you at the consequences. And if said daughter had sneezed at 88mph and gone back in time, or wrapped herself around a tree, Mother would have been very sad and angry at the police for not stopping her.
Take a deep breath. Register for the appropriate classes. Tell your boss/professor you have to go to the class. They're not going to fire you or give you an F. Drive more carefully in the future.
posted by jellicle at 2:20 PM on February 27, 2006
Many states have different rules for drivers who have been licensed less than X years. This is because drivers who have been licensed less than X years, particularly male drivers, cause most of the traffic accidents on the roads. Since you've caused an accident, you have to admit it's a fair rap.
Here's a parent complaining that the nice policeman stopped her daughter who was doing 1.6 times the speed limit. Her daughter, future organ donor, is probably pissed just like you at the consequences. And if said daughter had sneezed at 88mph and gone back in time, or wrapped herself around a tree, Mother would have been very sad and angry at the police for not stopping her.
Take a deep breath. Register for the appropriate classes. Tell your boss/professor you have to go to the class. They're not going to fire you or give you an F. Drive more carefully in the future.
posted by jellicle at 2:20 PM on February 27, 2006
What roboto said. If the clerk can't help you, Vulgarian's ombudsman -sounds- like it might be a good idea, though I'm not familiar with them. Failing those, see a lawyer.
posted by Count Ziggurat at 2:20 PM on February 27, 2006
posted by Count Ziggurat at 2:20 PM on February 27, 2006
actually jellicle: the cop didn't show so the daughter didn't have to do any of that, and it really does seem way beyond punitive 70 hours of community service for a speeding ticket?
posted by delmoi at 2:33 PM on February 27, 2006
posted by delmoi at 2:33 PM on February 27, 2006
I was in the exact same circumstance about 6 months ago. I suggest either going to the trial and talking it out or delaying the trial, thus hoping your adjunct officer not to show (they show far less often at the delayed hearings because it is not time effective for them) and thus the charge will be dropped automatically. Goodluck, send me a msg if you want details etc...
posted by stratastar at 2:37 PM on February 27, 2006
posted by stratastar at 2:37 PM on February 27, 2006
The sentence included well over 12 hours of time; note the "several 4-hour seminars."
I stand corrected. Unless we're talking about 5 hours a day for a month, though, I'd be shocked if this weren't somehow doable, even with a tight schedule. These classes can't be in the middle of the day, not if they're designed for teenagers in school. I'm guessing it'd take up a weekend or two? My vote remains for sucking it up and doing it. Geoff, while the law isn't exactly entirely understanding towards kids, I think the sweeping generalization that the law thinks every kid is a trust-fund baby is a touch on the... hyperbolic side.
posted by incessant at 2:37 PM on February 27, 2006
You haven't agreed to anything already, have you? Did your court date come and go, with you attending and signing something? Or are you merely anticipating what might happen?
If it's the latter, get a lawyer. If it's the former it may very well be to late to balk, and you're might have to live with the consequences of agreeing to this traffic school gig. I hope you did not already.
(The consequences of failing to do the traffic school if you did already sign something will be much worse than losing your job, in the long run).
FWIW, this is a great reason for 18-21 year-olds to get involved in politics. There's all kinds of bullshit age discrimination against this age group, at least in part because the age group doesn't pay attention to local politics.
posted by teece at 2:42 PM on February 27, 2006
If it's the latter, get a lawyer. If it's the former it may very well be to late to balk, and you're might have to live with the consequences of agreeing to this traffic school gig. I hope you did not already.
(The consequences of failing to do the traffic school if you did already sign something will be much worse than losing your job, in the long run).
FWIW, this is a great reason for 18-21 year-olds to get involved in politics. There's all kinds of bullshit age discrimination against this age group, at least in part because the age group doesn't pay attention to local politics.
posted by teece at 2:42 PM on February 27, 2006
So you did do something wrong. In that case get off your high horse, try and make alternate arrangments and just deal with it. You messed up, you do the time.
In five years you'll look back on this and realize what a true non-event the whole thing was.
posted by DieHipsterDie at 2:48 PM on February 27, 2006
In five years you'll look back on this and realize what a true non-event the whole thing was.
posted by DieHipsterDie at 2:48 PM on February 27, 2006
If you do talk to the judge again, consider showing him/her this thread. Maybe you'll get some "credit for time served" for the pillorying you're receiving here.
posted by Good Brain at 3:07 PM on February 27, 2006
posted by Good Brain at 3:07 PM on February 27, 2006
What obiwanwasabi said. (I lost a friend who was killed by a kid who "only" passed right and did not look out).
posted by davar at 3:07 PM on February 27, 2006
posted by davar at 3:07 PM on February 27, 2006
Have you considered writing the court a letter and asking the judge if you can postpone the issue until you have a break from school? I did that many years ago and it worked out quite well.
posted by drstein at 3:20 PM on February 27, 2006
posted by drstein at 3:20 PM on February 27, 2006
"So i gather everyone just thinks I'm trying to get out of doing anything."
I think people are just trying to acquaint you with the realities of life, not accuse you of irresponsibility. You caused a car crash, you were given a penalty, and now you have to deal with it. It's not a reflection on your worth as a person, so get over it. Good people who work hard, get good grades, etc., sometimes also cause car accidents. One has really nothing to do with the other. Really, the class as you described it doesn't sound that taxing. I doubt it will "ruin your life" for two months. From the sounds of it, there will probably be other people your age there, and you might even make a friend or pick up a date. I would spend more time finding ways you can complete the class before the 30th, than whining about having to do it.
posted by katyggls at 4:23 PM on February 27, 2006
I think people are just trying to acquaint you with the realities of life, not accuse you of irresponsibility. You caused a car crash, you were given a penalty, and now you have to deal with it. It's not a reflection on your worth as a person, so get over it. Good people who work hard, get good grades, etc., sometimes also cause car accidents. One has really nothing to do with the other. Really, the class as you described it doesn't sound that taxing. I doubt it will "ruin your life" for two months. From the sounds of it, there will probably be other people your age there, and you might even make a friend or pick up a date. I would spend more time finding ways you can complete the class before the 30th, than whining about having to do it.
posted by katyggls at 4:23 PM on February 27, 2006
Adjust your attitude, take some personal responsibility, and be proactive about working with these people, who will hopefully be reasonable about scheduling. Obiwanwasabi said it perfectly. Your sparkling personality and grades have nothing to do with it. If you didn't cause damage to the other car (or injury to the driver), it was only through luck. I only wish people of every age busted for inattentive driving - or worse - were required to reeducate themselves on responsible driving.
It's not age discrimination. It's the facts of life. It's stats. You obviously fall right in with them. It is reasonable for the court to respond accordingly and appropriately.
You're not a bad person, but you did fuck up. It hits pretty close to home for a lot of us, which is why you're not getting more sympathy for your attitude. For the godawful scheduling, yeah. But not for the attitude.
posted by moira at 4:43 PM on February 27, 2006
It's not age discrimination. It's the facts of life. It's stats. You obviously fall right in with them. It is reasonable for the court to respond accordingly and appropriately.
You're not a bad person, but you did fuck up. It hits pretty close to home for a lot of us, which is why you're not getting more sympathy for your attitude. For the godawful scheduling, yeah. But not for the attitude.
posted by moira at 4:43 PM on February 27, 2006
Ignore the folks who've taken it upon themselves to school you in The Realities of Life; they're being completely unhelpful. You've already marked one good answer; I'll just confirm geoff.'s suggestion that many (in my experience, most) traffic lawyers will give a free consult, often over the phone. So you won't have to pay for smart information from someone who knows the local laws and can tell you how realistic it is to ask for an extension. I'd be very surprised if the court doesn't work with you.
If you do go to the court, definitely do it as soon as possible and be polite as can be. No whining allowed. But do tell them you've spoken with a lawyer and want to finish the program as quickly as possible.
posted by mediareport at 9:45 PM on February 27, 2006
If you do go to the court, definitely do it as soon as possible and be polite as can be. No whining allowed. But do tell them you've spoken with a lawyer and want to finish the program as quickly as possible.
posted by mediareport at 9:45 PM on February 27, 2006
Yep, definately talk to a lawyer. And don't plead guilty to anything until you have talked to and negotiated with the rep from the DA's office.
posted by blueplasticfish at 10:52 PM on February 27, 2006
posted by blueplasticfish at 10:52 PM on February 27, 2006
For the folks who are saying "measly 12 hours; suck it up," I'd like to point you to this quote: "It consists of lots of 4 hour seminars, 1 test, and 8 hours of community service." That's more than 12 hours. Improve your reading comprehension, people, before you give crappy advice.
posted by digitalis at 11:20 PM on February 27, 2006
posted by digitalis at 11:20 PM on February 27, 2006
IANAL
19? A kid?! Excuse, please. Isn't 18 the age of majority for the United States? Isn't there something silly and superfluous, like "equal protection under the law"?
punishment worse due to being under the age of 21. Sounds highly questionable to me. I care not at all any arguments about 'kids' causing accidents. That's an issue for the insurance company, not the Court.
I had the same sort of accident once, at age 20. No cops, no tickets. The other driver had a dent, I bumped it out with my hand (one wack from inside her trunk). We both had old cars. I learned to pay better attention to my blind spot.
posted by Goofyy at 1:59 AM on February 28, 2006
19? A kid?! Excuse, please. Isn't 18 the age of majority for the United States? Isn't there something silly and superfluous, like "equal protection under the law"?
punishment worse due to being under the age of 21. Sounds highly questionable to me. I care not at all any arguments about 'kids' causing accidents. That's an issue for the insurance company, not the Court.
I had the same sort of accident once, at age 20. No cops, no tickets. The other driver had a dent, I bumped it out with my hand (one wack from inside her trunk). We both had old cars. I learned to pay better attention to my blind spot.
posted by Goofyy at 1:59 AM on February 28, 2006
punishment worse due to being under the age of 21. Sounds highly questionable to me.
"IANAL"? No shit.
Icespide's age has bugger all to do with this. Even if the TLC program applied to drivers of all ages, he'd still be whining "But lookit my G-P-AAaaaaa! I don't deserve to have to learn how to drive just coz I caused a crash! Can't I just buy my way out of this? Isn't $88 enough for wrecklessly endangering the lives of others? It's all such a bother!"
You fuck it up, you suck it up. I've no doubt that if some teenager crashed into him it'd be "Ooh, ooh! TLC for you!"
posted by obiwanwasabi at 3:43 AM on February 28, 2006
"IANAL"? No shit.
Icespide's age has bugger all to do with this. Even if the TLC program applied to drivers of all ages, he'd still be whining "But lookit my G-P-AAaaaaa! I don't deserve to have to learn how to drive just coz I caused a crash! Can't I just buy my way out of this? Isn't $88 enough for wrecklessly endangering the lives of others? It's all such a bother!"
You fuck it up, you suck it up. I've no doubt that if some teenager crashed into him it'd be "Ooh, ooh! TLC for you!"
posted by obiwanwasabi at 3:43 AM on February 28, 2006
Punishment worse due to being under the age of 21.
Icespide didn't say anything about being charged with a crime. Most traffic violations aren't criminal offenses. They are abut regulating the use of motor vehicles. As others have pointed out, the government uses age-based regulations to promote public safety.
posted by alms at 6:43 AM on February 28, 2006
Icespide didn't say anything about being charged with a crime. Most traffic violations aren't criminal offenses. They are abut regulating the use of motor vehicles. As others have pointed out, the government uses age-based regulations to promote public safety.
posted by alms at 6:43 AM on February 28, 2006
The thing is, Georgia is notorious for this kind of shit, and they will come after you years down the line if you don't fulfill every single one of their expectations. Anecdote: friend of mine in similar situation to yours, blew off class, court, etc. Fast forward 11 or 12 years, friend, now North Carolina resident, is driving through Georgia and gets pulled over for speeding. Friend goes to jail. For several days. And when he finally gets out, he then has to go back to jail, in GA, a nice 5 hour drive, which his girlfriend has to do, since he is not allowed to drive until this is done with, every weekend for a month. So whatever you do (and I think the get a lawyer crowd is right on the money here,) do not just blow this off, because as awful and annoying as it may be now, it's really only going to be worse in 11 or 12 years.
posted by mygothlaundry at 8:16 AM on February 28, 2006
posted by mygothlaundry at 8:16 AM on February 28, 2006
An infraction involving $1250 in damage, cops, and lost sleep gets a few classes and a small amount of community service (and possibly a small fine?). This isn't prison or excessive fines or license suspension. I think it's a bit of an overreaction to cry "unfair!" or "this will ruin my life for two months!" or "I don't deserve this!"
In your original post, it sounded like you honestly felt bad. You got some really good advice there. Don't beat yourself up, but take it to heart and pay the (entirely reasonable) consequences. These seminars are giving you the opportunity to learn how to be a better driver. If you can work out an extension to make things a little easier on you, great. I wish you luck in that.
posted by moira at 9:16 AM on February 28, 2006
In your original post, it sounded like you honestly felt bad. You got some really good advice there. Don't beat yourself up, but take it to heart and pay the (entirely reasonable) consequences. These seminars are giving you the opportunity to learn how to be a better driver. If you can work out an extension to make things a little easier on you, great. I wish you luck in that.
posted by moira at 9:16 AM on February 28, 2006
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posted by cellphone at 12:43 PM on February 27, 2006