Is Light Tax Fraud Disqualifying in a Relationship?
February 19, 2019 2:37 PM
I've been dating a woman I like a lot for almost 9 months. We get along great, we share many important values, we sometimes even talk about a longer-term future together.
However.
It's tax season, and during a recent conversation, she revealed that she and her accountant set up a fake home-based business to write off expenses accrued on her actual job. Apparently, she used to be able to write off a bunch of stuff, and rules changed, and she writes off an equivalent amount using this shell business. Or something.
This seems like a terrible idea.
She's convinced she's too small-time for the IRS to care. I replied that she's too small-time to afford getting caught. She dismissed that and said she and her accountant have this thing figured out.
I never want to find myself legally tied to a person in legal trouble of this kind. I would never do this sort of thing myself, both out of straight-up fear and because I do not do deceptive stuff for personal gain. It's just not in me.
Where do I go from here?
I get that I should probably say, "Darling, if we're going to be together, you must draw a hard, clear line in life between the olden days you did these things and the bright future where you will not." And see how she takes it. (If you have a better way of posing this question, please share btw.)
But I'm trying to figure out how much her answer would matter. Factors: I have kids. I am in the 2nd half of my career. She really did not seem at all concerned about the ethical dimension of her actions. Is a person who does this likely to harbor other deceptive practices?
Maybe I'm close to answering my own question here. I am asking for help in this that goes DTMFA, but you can say that if you think it's that cut-and-dried.
It's tax season, and during a recent conversation, she revealed that she and her accountant set up a fake home-based business to write off expenses accrued on her actual job. Apparently, she used to be able to write off a bunch of stuff, and rules changed, and she writes off an equivalent amount using this shell business. Or something.
This seems like a terrible idea.
She's convinced she's too small-time for the IRS to care. I replied that she's too small-time to afford getting caught. She dismissed that and said she and her accountant have this thing figured out.
I never want to find myself legally tied to a person in legal trouble of this kind. I would never do this sort of thing myself, both out of straight-up fear and because I do not do deceptive stuff for personal gain. It's just not in me.
Where do I go from here?
I get that I should probably say, "Darling, if we're going to be together, you must draw a hard, clear line in life between the olden days you did these things and the bright future where you will not." And see how she takes it. (If you have a better way of posing this question, please share btw.)
But I'm trying to figure out how much her answer would matter. Factors: I have kids. I am in the 2nd half of my career. She really did not seem at all concerned about the ethical dimension of her actions. Is a person who does this likely to harbor other deceptive practices?
Maybe I'm close to answering my own question here. I am asking for help in this that goes DTMFA, but you can say that if you think it's that cut-and-dried.
I think the issue is with the accountant. If an accountant did this for me and claimed it was a legit loophole and not illegal, I'd trust them because I'm not an accountant. But, if this is an illegal scheme and it's one that is known to be illegal by your gf, I think that your gf needs a new accountant and more risk aversion.
posted by quince at 2:45 PM on February 19, 2019
posted by quince at 2:45 PM on February 19, 2019
One thought: I'd feel a lot differently about "light tax fraud" (LTF) depending on the position of who's doing it, and why.
For example most babysitters and neighborhood lawn mowers take cash under the table and do not report that as income to the IRS. That is LTF that I personally don't care much about, ethically speaking. I mean sure they're dodging the law, but boy do you get gauged if you try to claim a few hundred bucks of baby sitting income, and it's not even really clear to many of these folks how you are supposed to do that if you wanted to.
But this is a professional business owner, who is calculatedly committing fraud under the guidance of a paid professional expert. And now I have serious ethical qualms with both of them.
So some LTF is not a big deal, some may be a deal breaker. If it were me, I'd try to ask her if the bolded sentence is technically accurate, and then be informed by how she answers. I'd try to keep my tone neutral, but I can see why you are not too happy about what this seems to say about her character.
On preview, re legality. Tax avoidance is technically different from Tax evasion in that the former is legal, but extreme tax avoidance can easily be unethical too (in my book, yEthicsmv).
posted by SaltySalticid at 2:45 PM on February 19, 2019
For example most babysitters and neighborhood lawn mowers take cash under the table and do not report that as income to the IRS. That is LTF that I personally don't care much about, ethically speaking. I mean sure they're dodging the law, but boy do you get gauged if you try to claim a few hundred bucks of baby sitting income, and it's not even really clear to many of these folks how you are supposed to do that if you wanted to.
But this is a professional business owner, who is calculatedly committing fraud under the guidance of a paid professional expert. And now I have serious ethical qualms with both of them.
So some LTF is not a big deal, some may be a deal breaker. If it were me, I'd try to ask her if the bolded sentence is technically accurate, and then be informed by how she answers. I'd try to keep my tone neutral, but I can see why you are not too happy about what this seems to say about her character.
On preview, re legality. Tax avoidance is technically different from Tax evasion in that the former is legal, but extreme tax avoidance can easily be unethical too (in my book, yEthicsmv).
posted by SaltySalticid at 2:45 PM on February 19, 2019
Nope right out of this relationship. In my experience, small things usually end up leading to bigger things. Not always for the best. Once you start making excuses for someone and trying to see it from their perspective, it can turn into going down the rabbit hole sometimes until you get to the point that you have lost your *own* moral compass.
Not saying that's going to happen, but tax stuff is not something anyone should try to pull.
posted by lunastellasol at 2:48 PM on February 19, 2019
Not saying that's going to happen, but tax stuff is not something anyone should try to pull.
posted by lunastellasol at 2:48 PM on February 19, 2019
At 9 months in, you are still learning about her character. This isn't just someone who's overwhelmed and missing a minimum payment. This is someone who, it sounds like, knows that she has a 'fake' business and is deliberately using that to commit tax fraud.
I would give this relationship a pass, just because life is both too short to tie myself to someone who thinks this way, and too long to want to deal with all the results when this kind of thing comes home to roost.
I married my husband in part because he walked back 15 minutes to return a $5 overpayment at a restaurant...not because I cared so much about the $5 but because I wanted to be with someone who made me be a better person, not be the better person.
posted by warriorqueen at 2:50 PM on February 19, 2019
I would give this relationship a pass, just because life is both too short to tie myself to someone who thinks this way, and too long to want to deal with all the results when this kind of thing comes home to roost.
I married my husband in part because he walked back 15 minutes to return a $5 overpayment at a restaurant...not because I cared so much about the $5 but because I wanted to be with someone who made me be a better person, not be the better person.
posted by warriorqueen at 2:50 PM on February 19, 2019
I suspect that someone who is willing to commit "light fraud" on the advice of a tax professional would be more susceptible to being a victim of cons, scams, or frauds themselves. Consumer Reports recently published an article on the personality factors that make one suscepible to scams, and they include being eager for bargains, susceptibilty to persuasion, and willingness to take risks.
posted by muddgirl at 2:54 PM on February 19, 2019
posted by muddgirl at 2:54 PM on February 19, 2019
Seconding warriorqueen, also just quick clarification on my comment. I did not mean to say that she would lead you astray and bring you in to her scheme, but that if you dismiss certain things out of giving people the benefit of the doubt, sometimes people keep disclosing larger and larger things to see how much they can "get away with" telling you without you getting upset. That kind of thing.
I have kids. I am in the 2nd half of my career.
^--- this seems to be really important if something like this does "comes home to roost" as warriorqueen suggests could happen. You don't want to be on the hook for her not so great judgment if this relationship does proceed and lead to any marriage or finance co-mingling stages. Some people may think that her accountant suggested this to her, but it is entirely plausible that *she* asked her accountant how to go about doing this for her. Either way, not great for long-term relationship prospects in my opinion.
posted by lunastellasol at 2:56 PM on February 19, 2019
I have kids. I am in the 2nd half of my career.
^--- this seems to be really important if something like this does "comes home to roost" as warriorqueen suggests could happen. You don't want to be on the hook for her not so great judgment if this relationship does proceed and lead to any marriage or finance co-mingling stages. Some people may think that her accountant suggested this to her, but it is entirely plausible that *she* asked her accountant how to go about doing this for her. Either way, not great for long-term relationship prospects in my opinion.
posted by lunastellasol at 2:56 PM on February 19, 2019
Many, many, many people are waking up to the harsh reality that the GOP tax plan (shocker) was not set up to benefit most hard-working people. And most of those people are sucking it up and paying their taxes. Because they know that taxes go to pay our teachers, fix our potholes, make sure veterans get healthcare (and also support a lot of questionable policies).
The right way to deal with a tax plan you hate is to elect better leaders, not defraud your fellow citizens.
At the end of the day, this is probably really small-time and she's likely to get away with it. But if you're someone who believes that "character is doing the right thing when no one is looking," then you shouldn't take this any further.
posted by brookeb at 3:00 PM on February 19, 2019
The right way to deal with a tax plan you hate is to elect better leaders, not defraud your fellow citizens.
At the end of the day, this is probably really small-time and she's likely to get away with it. But if you're someone who believes that "character is doing the right thing when no one is looking," then you shouldn't take this any further.
posted by brookeb at 3:00 PM on February 19, 2019
This strikes me as rather more than 'light' tax fraud. Like, lots of people don't report income to the IRS that they received in cash or that was otherwise not reported by the person making the payment. This is active tax fraud - a lie of commission, not of omission. It's up to you whether you consider that a dealbreaker or not, but she is going pretty far out of her way to break the law here.
posted by Ragged Richard at 3:02 PM on February 19, 2019
posted by Ragged Richard at 3:02 PM on February 19, 2019
I would not like this at all.
Also, I think she's a bit deluded if she thinks they won't go after her. As far as I can see it's the small beans people who do get caught while large corporations do what they want.
posted by kitten magic at 3:12 PM on February 19, 2019
Also, I think she's a bit deluded if she thinks they won't go after her. As far as I can see it's the small beans people who do get caught while large corporations do what they want.
posted by kitten magic at 3:12 PM on February 19, 2019
we share many important values
This seems like a value that is pretty important to you that you do not share. I'm not going to say this should be a deal-breaker for everyone. But she should have a partner who feels about money and rules the way she does. It sounds like you are not that partner, and that's okay.
posted by nebulawindphone at 3:22 PM on February 19, 2019
This seems like a value that is pretty important to you that you do not share. I'm not going to say this should be a deal-breaker for everyone. But she should have a partner who feels about money and rules the way she does. It sounds like you are not that partner, and that's okay.
posted by nebulawindphone at 3:22 PM on February 19, 2019
I mean, I literally AM a small business owner with a home office that I cannot write off because the home office laws are so stringent and I just deal with it. Setting up a whole fake business to write off stuff you're not allowed to deduct anymore feels...pretty shady. I would be curious as to what other things she'd be willing to lie about to get away with things.
posted by Countess Sandwich at 3:22 PM on February 19, 2019
posted by Countess Sandwich at 3:22 PM on February 19, 2019
How did you come to know about this? I would think very differently about someone who gloated to me about finding a shady accountant who was willing to help openly flout tax rules when she could afford to pay but just got off on evading ("smart people don't pay taxes"/"taxes are for the little people") vs. if I were dating someone who, through talking to them, I thought their accountant might be wrong about whether certain business expenses were entirely kosher.
My other question is to what extent are you sure her accountant is in the wrong? "a fake home-based business to write off expenses accrued on her actual job" sounds like the business expenses are real, not fake.
posted by the milkman, the paper boy at 3:22 PM on February 19, 2019
My other question is to what extent are you sure her accountant is in the wrong? "a fake home-based business to write off expenses accrued on her actual job" sounds like the business expenses are real, not fake.
posted by the milkman, the paper boy at 3:22 PM on February 19, 2019
I get that I should probably say, "Darling, if we're going to be together, you must draw a hard, clear line in life between the olden days you did these things and the bright future where you will not."
I mean maybe you want to put it more like "I couldn't really be in a relationship with someone who does this" and see how she reacts? Because maybe she's like "Yeah I see what you mean, it sounded dumb when my accountant suggested it but..." or maybe she's like "Well I'm gonna keep doing it. There's the door...."
I am someone who has done some ethically questionable things (and some I may continue to do) but even I'm a little raised eyebrow about having an entire fraudulent business. Not because she's likely to get caught (I concur, she isn't) but because it just creates a world where it's that much harder to get a home office deduction for small business owners (I have one, it's a serious pain in the ass) and I'd be concerned that she has a shady accountant who would help her do this.
posted by jessamyn at 3:23 PM on February 19, 2019
I mean maybe you want to put it more like "I couldn't really be in a relationship with someone who does this" and see how she reacts? Because maybe she's like "Yeah I see what you mean, it sounded dumb when my accountant suggested it but..." or maybe she's like "Well I'm gonna keep doing it. There's the door...."
I am someone who has done some ethically questionable things (and some I may continue to do) but even I'm a little raised eyebrow about having an entire fraudulent business. Not because she's likely to get caught (I concur, she isn't) but because it just creates a world where it's that much harder to get a home office deduction for small business owners (I have one, it's a serious pain in the ass) and I'd be concerned that she has a shady accountant who would help her do this.
posted by jessamyn at 3:23 PM on February 19, 2019
Hm...I mean...I wouldn't do this myself, but this makes me a bit curious about what exactly she does. Like, for instance...is she an artist? Don't yell at me if I get the exact terms wrong, but being in an art industry I know many people who essentially set themselves up as an llc (they are the business, essentially) because they sometimes sell their own art separate from a day job or do some freelance art. If they also do art as their actual day job, sometimes expenses get blended because you're just...arting all the time. When the new tax bill rolled around I know a lot of them were told they could still write off if they were an llc/did freelance. It could sound shady, but I don't know if it is? It just sounded similar to what you described above. But I don't know what her profession is. I just trust whatever my accountant says, so maybe she did the same?
Either way, the real point is that you don't have to feel comfortable about it and it can be a dealbreaker for you if you want it to be.
posted by sprezzy at 3:28 PM on February 19, 2019
Either way, the real point is that you don't have to feel comfortable about it and it can be a dealbreaker for you if you want it to be.
posted by sprezzy at 3:28 PM on February 19, 2019
All this to say, I guess I'm the anomaly and this doesn't sound that strange to me. But I have no idea of the intricacies of her situation.
posted by sprezzy at 3:29 PM on February 19, 2019
posted by sprezzy at 3:29 PM on February 19, 2019
This particular situation, given the details you've given and the impression I've gotten from it, would probably lie just on the "too much" side of the line for me. As you can see from your answers, that line is going to fall in different places for different people. You're going to have to make a decision on that for yourself... and it sounds like it might be a bit too much for you, too.
posted by stormyteal at 3:40 PM on February 19, 2019
posted by stormyteal at 3:40 PM on February 19, 2019
Way I see it there's two issues here, the moral / ethical risk, and the legal / financial risk, they're not necessarily the same thing but they can intersect.
The Moral / Ethical risk - the fact that a person is willing to cheat and lie, reveals that their character is essentially okay with cheating.
Legal / Financial risk - people take risks all the time, as long as the probability and size of the consequence is known, they can be protected for.
Where they intersect: say a parking lot says you can use it for a maximum 1 hour, and if you get caught you pay a fine of $100, and you figure there's a 10% chance of getting caught if you go over the time limit by 10 minutes. One person may be more focused on whether the rules were followed, another may be more focused on whether they were financially protected against this risk.
People look for different things in a partner. No one is perfect: no one acts with 100% pure ethics and morals all the time unless they were literally Jesus, and no one is all-knowing and has total knowledge of all the financial and legal risks they are exposed to, and if "total purity" is your benchmark no one is going to pass it. I think the test of it is how both parties negotiate and compromise to come to an acceptable position - very important, because you will be sharing your lives together.
PS: Tax fraud like this is not uncommon. Someone could "purchase a refrigerator and TV for their workplace" and write it off as a business expense, but install it in their home instead. If they get audited, they may have to transport the fridge and TV back to their workplace for the "audit" which may be easier or more difficult to get away with depending on the circumstance... Some kinds of fraud carry little risk, some more. In copyright infringement, for example, watching a movie through a free streaming service carries less risk, compared to torrenting a movie file (because in the latter you can in theory be prosecuted for the distribution of copyrighted material, while in the former there's effective no law that can be used against you) but they both arguably violate the same moral / ethical line equally.
posted by xdvesper at 3:44 PM on February 19, 2019
The Moral / Ethical risk - the fact that a person is willing to cheat and lie, reveals that their character is essentially okay with cheating.
Legal / Financial risk - people take risks all the time, as long as the probability and size of the consequence is known, they can be protected for.
Where they intersect: say a parking lot says you can use it for a maximum 1 hour, and if you get caught you pay a fine of $100, and you figure there's a 10% chance of getting caught if you go over the time limit by 10 minutes. One person may be more focused on whether the rules were followed, another may be more focused on whether they were financially protected against this risk.
People look for different things in a partner. No one is perfect: no one acts with 100% pure ethics and morals all the time unless they were literally Jesus, and no one is all-knowing and has total knowledge of all the financial and legal risks they are exposed to, and if "total purity" is your benchmark no one is going to pass it. I think the test of it is how both parties negotiate and compromise to come to an acceptable position - very important, because you will be sharing your lives together.
PS: Tax fraud like this is not uncommon. Someone could "purchase a refrigerator and TV for their workplace" and write it off as a business expense, but install it in their home instead. If they get audited, they may have to transport the fridge and TV back to their workplace for the "audit" which may be easier or more difficult to get away with depending on the circumstance... Some kinds of fraud carry little risk, some more. In copyright infringement, for example, watching a movie through a free streaming service carries less risk, compared to torrenting a movie file (because in the latter you can in theory be prosecuted for the distribution of copyrighted material, while in the former there's effective no law that can be used against you) but they both arguably violate the same moral / ethical line equally.
posted by xdvesper at 3:44 PM on February 19, 2019
Whatever you decide about the relationship, do not marry her. My father committed tax fraud, my homemaker mother didn't have much option other than to continue signing the joint tax forms and didn't know the extent of it or have access to any of the information she needed (my father wouldn't even let her check bank balances while we were growing up), and now years later the consequences are still hanging over my mother's head even though they have been divorced for years; she has a court appointment to look forward to in April.
You, though, have the option to never end up in that situation. It's not as easy to get an innocent spouse exemption as you might think, as my mother demonstrates, especially not since she has told you and could say that you knew all along, which would disqualify you.
posted by foxfirefey at 3:46 PM on February 19, 2019
You, though, have the option to never end up in that situation. It's not as easy to get an innocent spouse exemption as you might think, as my mother demonstrates, especially not since she has told you and could say that you knew all along, which would disqualify you.
posted by foxfirefey at 3:46 PM on February 19, 2019
It would make me very uncomfortable, and life has taught me not to stay in relationships with people who make me uncomfortable, because it always goes badly for me in the end.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 3:47 PM on February 19, 2019
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 3:47 PM on February 19, 2019
This sets off every alarm bell for me. She is knowingly choosing to commit crime. She is willingly fraudulent. Even if she has fallen under the sway of a bad accountant, she knows it's illegal. What this says about her personal ethics would keep me from ever feeling safe in the relationship. The risks to what you've built are too great. You say that you share many important values, but what you say under the line indicates otherwise.
posted by AliceBlue at 3:59 PM on February 19, 2019
posted by AliceBlue at 3:59 PM on February 19, 2019
she and her accountant set up a fake home-based business to write off expenses accrued on her actual job
This is active fraud. This isn't "forgetting" to report cash tips received, or paying a babysitter under the table, it's actively engaging in fraud. This is not something that I would be willing or able to live with.
posted by Lexica at 4:01 PM on February 19, 2019
This is active fraud. This isn't "forgetting" to report cash tips received, or paying a babysitter under the table, it's actively engaging in fraud. This is not something that I would be willing or able to live with.
posted by Lexica at 4:01 PM on February 19, 2019
Yeah, this would be a dealbreaker for me. I don't like spending time dreading the knock on the door. If you married this person, these frauds could end up as joint frauds—can you live with that? Would it be a good example for your kids? I feel like if she's willing to cross this line she'd be willing to cross other lines too.
posted by clone boulevard at 4:04 PM on February 19, 2019
posted by clone boulevard at 4:04 PM on February 19, 2019
This is a value judgement and there is no One True Answer answer. Personally, I believe that there is zero correlation between light tax evasion and "other deceptive practices". A good number of well-read, thoughtful, kind-hearted, ethical people I know have complicated feelings about taxes or altogether believe that taxes in their current form are a fraud to being with. (In fact, I challenge the DTMFA crowd to apply their high standards to everyone in their life who uses Google or shops on Amazon or pays cash to their babysitter.) Ditto for stealing an occasional paperclip from the office supply closet of the shitty giant corporation you work for, lying to the police about your recreational pot use if you are person of color, failing to report an illegal immigrant to the ICE, and so on... but that's me, others may feel differently.
Personal compatibility is a whole different issue. You are someone who likes rules and doesn't feel comfortable with risk and ambiguity, while your girlfriend is the opposite. For me, it is a huge red flag from her perspective that your feelings on this matter are "Darling, if we're going to be together, you must draw a hard, clear line between the olden days you did these things and the bright future where you will not". My way or the highway is just a very, VERY bad way to start a relationship. My vote is on breaking up, not because she is bad but because you are incompatible.
For what it's worth, I have owned several small businesses and your girlfriend is right, there is a very small chance that she will ever be audited, let alone penalized, and if she is penalized she will almost certainly be asked to pay those unpaid taxes and that'll be the end of it. Furthermore, if she said that "she and her accountant have this thing figured out" it is not out of question that this is actually true and what they are doing is a tax strategy rather than tax evasion and that you've overblown this whole issue, especially given your conflation of the concepts of "fake shell company" and "home office deduction" which are two very different things.
posted by rada at 4:06 PM on February 19, 2019
Personal compatibility is a whole different issue. You are someone who likes rules and doesn't feel comfortable with risk and ambiguity, while your girlfriend is the opposite. For me, it is a huge red flag from her perspective that your feelings on this matter are "Darling, if we're going to be together, you must draw a hard, clear line between the olden days you did these things and the bright future where you will not". My way or the highway is just a very, VERY bad way to start a relationship. My vote is on breaking up, not because she is bad but because you are incompatible.
For what it's worth, I have owned several small businesses and your girlfriend is right, there is a very small chance that she will ever be audited, let alone penalized, and if she is penalized she will almost certainly be asked to pay those unpaid taxes and that'll be the end of it. Furthermore, if she said that "she and her accountant have this thing figured out" it is not out of question that this is actually true and what they are doing is a tax strategy rather than tax evasion and that you've overblown this whole issue, especially given your conflation of the concepts of "fake shell company" and "home office deduction" which are two very different things.
posted by rada at 4:06 PM on February 19, 2019
She's fine with contributing less than other people, and taking the same from the common pool. If she's still fine when she hears it framed that way, I wouldn't be OK with it. Other people are not less deserving than she is.
posted by amtho at 4:18 PM on February 19, 2019
posted by amtho at 4:18 PM on February 19, 2019
Shell companies (meaning a company with no employees or significant assets) are not illegal. If she works from home at all, many deductions are completely legal. It sounds like you don't have a full picture of how this is set up, so maybe talk to her more before you get too freaked out. If she actually has a CPA who is committing fraud on her behalf, that accountant is just as liable as she is, and it seems very unlikely that any accountant would put their career on the line like that for a small client. Maybe your GF is overstating what's happening, or doesn't have a clear understanding of what is happening herself. Some people think it's daring and racy to talk about committing fraud when really they are just taking advantage of legal loopholes.
Besides, if you're not married, her tax issues belong to her and not you. If you are planning on getting married, you could make a strong case for the 'married filing jointly plus dependents' deduction will outweigh whatever deductions she might be taking with her home office. You can simply tell her if you do get married she cannot continue to hedge her deductions in that way. If she can compromise on that, there is a good chance you guys can work this out.
posted by ananci at 4:22 PM on February 19, 2019
Besides, if you're not married, her tax issues belong to her and not you. If you are planning on getting married, you could make a strong case for the 'married filing jointly plus dependents' deduction will outweigh whatever deductions she might be taking with her home office. You can simply tell her if you do get married she cannot continue to hedge her deductions in that way. If she can compromise on that, there is a good chance you guys can work this out.
posted by ananci at 4:22 PM on February 19, 2019
It's tax season, and during a recent conversation, she revealed that she and her accountant set up a fake home-based business to write off expenses accrued on her actual job.
so she's writing off actual job-related expenses, but the home business isn't a "real" business?
does it have the correct paperwork for a real business, but she doesn't solicit clients? is that what's going on here?
it's not at all clear from the question what's fraudulent here -- which is not to suggest that it isn't, but there's definitely people who like to play a little "ain't I a badass" when they talk about any creative tax accounting they might be doing, creating the impression that they are savvy operators who know how to game the rules of the system, when in fact they are basically just following the rules as laid out but occasionally using their "work" laptop to watch Netflix, or whatever.
you should probably revisit this matter if you get married but for now, I don't know if you for sure have an actual legal or even ethical problem.
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:26 PM on February 19, 2019
so she's writing off actual job-related expenses, but the home business isn't a "real" business?
does it have the correct paperwork for a real business, but she doesn't solicit clients? is that what's going on here?
it's not at all clear from the question what's fraudulent here -- which is not to suggest that it isn't, but there's definitely people who like to play a little "ain't I a badass" when they talk about any creative tax accounting they might be doing, creating the impression that they are savvy operators who know how to game the rules of the system, when in fact they are basically just following the rules as laid out but occasionally using their "work" laptop to watch Netflix, or whatever.
you should probably revisit this matter if you get married but for now, I don't know if you for sure have an actual legal or even ethical problem.
posted by prize bull octorok at 4:26 PM on February 19, 2019
When you said light tax fraud, I was thinking not reporting ebay sales. There’s nothing light about this. This is complicated, deliberate fraud. This would be an instant dealbreaker for me.
As others have pointed out, this is refusing to pay her share for things she benefits from. It is lying and stealing - from you, from me, from all of her fellow citizens. It is a terrible example for your child.
Some people have suggested she doesn’t know it’s illegal, but what she has said to you is that she doesn’t think she’ll get caught, not that she thinks it’s ok.
A person who is willing to commit a crime for the sake of getting more money (unless driven by desperation) is a person who cannot be trusted. I think you need to get out of this.
posted by FencingGal at 4:28 PM on February 19, 2019
As others have pointed out, this is refusing to pay her share for things she benefits from. It is lying and stealing - from you, from me, from all of her fellow citizens. It is a terrible example for your child.
Some people have suggested she doesn’t know it’s illegal, but what she has said to you is that she doesn’t think she’ll get caught, not that she thinks it’s ok.
A person who is willing to commit a crime for the sake of getting more money (unless driven by desperation) is a person who cannot be trusted. I think you need to get out of this.
posted by FencingGal at 4:28 PM on February 19, 2019
I agree with those who say that you don't know enough to know what she really has going on. As a person who has cycled through my own small businesses/freelance/contracting/regular employment and had to make some decisions about taxes depending on what I was doing in any given year and what I was planning to continue doing...this could all be fine. Or, it could be...a little shady or it could be ridiculous and get her into big trouble which, yeah, if you get married could be trouble for you, too.
One of the things I recall from way back is that a business needs to have a profit motive. This may be more of a rule of thumb (IANAA) applied to various tax schemes but the gist as I recall it is you can have a certain number of years in a business where you do not turn a profit. However, just having deductions and never a profit will most likely get you flagged. It's so obvious that that's just a cover for a hobby or something else.
Here's a real hinky thing she could be doing. Her employer has her pay for something on her own credit card and then apply for reimbursement (copier paper, pens, stock photography, airplane tickets, whatever). It's the kind of thing that she could conceivably use in her own "business" so she gets reimbursed and then counts it as a deduction as well. Essentially, she counts it twice. I'm pretty sure you could rack up a lot of deductions that way and get caught. And that's kind of a dumb thing to do. And again, if you have a bunch of deductions but don't show enough profit, that's a great way to get an audit done, go through the headache and hassle of that and then owe a bunch of money and fines.
But, talk to her about it and you can just say, "Hey, I'm not comfortable with that if we are moving forward together." That's totally valid.
posted by amanda at 4:36 PM on February 19, 2019
One of the things I recall from way back is that a business needs to have a profit motive. This may be more of a rule of thumb (IANAA) applied to various tax schemes but the gist as I recall it is you can have a certain number of years in a business where you do not turn a profit. However, just having deductions and never a profit will most likely get you flagged. It's so obvious that that's just a cover for a hobby or something else.
Here's a real hinky thing she could be doing. Her employer has her pay for something on her own credit card and then apply for reimbursement (copier paper, pens, stock photography, airplane tickets, whatever). It's the kind of thing that she could conceivably use in her own "business" so she gets reimbursed and then counts it as a deduction as well. Essentially, she counts it twice. I'm pretty sure you could rack up a lot of deductions that way and get caught. And that's kind of a dumb thing to do. And again, if you have a bunch of deductions but don't show enough profit, that's a great way to get an audit done, go through the headache and hassle of that and then owe a bunch of money and fines.
But, talk to her about it and you can just say, "Hey, I'm not comfortable with that if we are moving forward together." That's totally valid.
posted by amanda at 4:36 PM on February 19, 2019
Thank you all for your responses.
rada: she works two part time jobs, one as an outbound caller for a government program, another as a respite care provider for children. She used to write off milage, postage, supplies and such for the respite care job. Now she writes off those as expenses of a sales position for a small home-based position that does not exist. Forgive me if I did not describe the specifics in sufficient detail at first. I guess it's possible she either did not give me exact details or I did not understand them perfectly. It's certainly true I have a very limited grasp of taxes outside of "salaried job, a few deductions."
New disclosure: literally over dinner tonight she told me she swatted one of her respite care kids on the bottom last weekend. And this upcoming weekend she wants me to try edibles, which I have told her before I'm not interested in.
I just can't with this, I think
Why is all this happening before blizzard #147 which starts tonight at 9 when there is no place to shovel the new snow
posted by Caxton1476 at 4:41 PM on February 19, 2019
rada: she works two part time jobs, one as an outbound caller for a government program, another as a respite care provider for children. She used to write off milage, postage, supplies and such for the respite care job. Now she writes off those as expenses of a sales position for a small home-based position that does not exist. Forgive me if I did not describe the specifics in sufficient detail at first. I guess it's possible she either did not give me exact details or I did not understand them perfectly. It's certainly true I have a very limited grasp of taxes outside of "salaried job, a few deductions."
New disclosure: literally over dinner tonight she told me she swatted one of her respite care kids on the bottom last weekend. And this upcoming weekend she wants me to try edibles, which I have told her before I'm not interested in.
I just can't with this, I think
Why is all this happening before blizzard #147 which starts tonight at 9 when there is no place to shovel the new snow
posted by Caxton1476 at 4:41 PM on February 19, 2019
Get out. This is not worth the havoc it could wreak on your life.
And IRS loves going after small businesses. They went after me for legit business expenses and it took me 9 months to prove they were legit, and that's time I couldn't really afford. I pulled it off in the end but most would have given up because of the hassle involved, even when they are right. I really have a peanuts sized business.
They could easily come after her and you if you get tangled up in this.
posted by cacao at 4:43 PM on February 19, 2019
And IRS loves going after small businesses. They went after me for legit business expenses and it took me 9 months to prove they were legit, and that's time I couldn't really afford. I pulled it off in the end but most would have given up because of the hassle involved, even when they are right. I really have a peanuts sized business.
They could easily come after her and you if you get tangled up in this.
posted by cacao at 4:43 PM on February 19, 2019
OP hasn't really given enough information to know where on the scale of "I wrote off my new iPhone as a business expense because I took that one business call that one time" to "My CPA says as a Sovereign Citizen the IRS has no authority to tax me" the fraud lands. So, we and the OP might be overstating how "fraudy" things actually are.
On edit: yeah, not quite SovCit-land, but making up entirely fake job is probably something an IRS auditor uses as a warmup for the good stuff.
However, I do think the "too small-time for the IRS to care" is an incredibly naive way to think, and for me that'd be the deal breaker.
For example, about 20 years go the IRS put out a notice that a "Slave Reparations Scam" had been going for 8 or so years, (CPAs and whatnot would show African-American how use giant deductions to get big refunds because their ancestors had been in bondage), but lately there had been an uptick (2.7 billion dollars in these bad claims in 2001 alone). And to drive the point home, they finally got around to making a big deal about it and threw a bunch of the violators in jail.
See, those $2.7B per year worth of claims were small-time, until they weren't, then lots of people went to prison.
You girlfriend and her CPA's clever plan could be the IRS's 2019 choice of what they want to make an example.
posted by sideshow at 4:49 PM on February 19, 2019
On edit: yeah, not quite SovCit-land, but making up entirely fake job is probably something an IRS auditor uses as a warmup for the good stuff.
However, I do think the "too small-time for the IRS to care" is an incredibly naive way to think, and for me that'd be the deal breaker.
For example, about 20 years go the IRS put out a notice that a "Slave Reparations Scam" had been going for 8 or so years, (CPAs and whatnot would show African-American how use giant deductions to get big refunds because their ancestors had been in bondage), but lately there had been an uptick (2.7 billion dollars in these bad claims in 2001 alone). And to drive the point home, they finally got around to making a big deal about it and threw a bunch of the violators in jail.
See, those $2.7B per year worth of claims were small-time, until they weren't, then lots of people went to prison.
You girlfriend and her CPA's clever plan could be the IRS's 2019 choice of what they want to make an example.
posted by sideshow at 4:49 PM on February 19, 2019
I am an accountant. I am not your accountant. Your post made me want lots more information; your follow-up comment clinched it. Trust your gut and nope out now.
posted by armeowda at 4:55 PM on February 19, 2019
posted by armeowda at 4:55 PM on February 19, 2019
Assuming respite care is daycare/babysitting, and that she doesn't work at a center or as a W-2 salaried employee but is a contractor of some kind, it sounds completely legal and legit to write off her non-reimbursed out of pocket expenses related to that job as part of a small business that she runs in her capacity as a contractor. That's literally what being a contractor means, and if people weren't able to treat that sort of work as a small business, the whole economy would be broken even more than it already is (it's already messed up that a lot of employers use shady means to treat employees as contractors in the first place).
Likewise, edibles are a completely normal thing that is completely OK to want to try, and legal in many jurisdictions. Expressing interest in that is not criminal behavior. Though obviously you can have no interest in it, and that's also fine.
That said, anyone who bragged to me about hitting a kid I would dump yesterday.
posted by the milkman, the paper boy at 4:58 PM on February 19, 2019
Likewise, edibles are a completely normal thing that is completely OK to want to try, and legal in many jurisdictions. Expressing interest in that is not criminal behavior. Though obviously you can have no interest in it, and that's also fine.
That said, anyone who bragged to me about hitting a kid I would dump yesterday.
posted by the milkman, the paper boy at 4:58 PM on February 19, 2019
That said, anyone who bragged to me about hitting a kid I would dump yesterday.
This as well. Unacceptable. How would you feel if she "swatted" one of your children when you weren't around? Not sure of their ages, but sometimes people who are comfortable hitting children, especially other people's children, use words that make it seem like a light tap but could've actually been much harder. There's no way to know unless you witnessed it. And it's not worth taking the risk.
She's getting paid to take care of children. You better believe I'd fire anyone who hit my kid. I wouldn't want her around my children on this alone. She may be a lovely gal, but I think breaking things off now may be for the best. As others stated, there may be perfectly valid reasons and things may be on the up and up. *However,* as someone upthread mentioned, it's a little too much over the line for my comfort. And that's ok if it is for you too.
posted by lunastellasol at 5:16 PM on February 19, 2019
This as well. Unacceptable. How would you feel if she "swatted" one of your children when you weren't around? Not sure of their ages, but sometimes people who are comfortable hitting children, especially other people's children, use words that make it seem like a light tap but could've actually been much harder. There's no way to know unless you witnessed it. And it's not worth taking the risk.
She's getting paid to take care of children. You better believe I'd fire anyone who hit my kid. I wouldn't want her around my children on this alone. She may be a lovely gal, but I think breaking things off now may be for the best. As others stated, there may be perfectly valid reasons and things may be on the up and up. *However,* as someone upthread mentioned, it's a little too much over the line for my comfort. And that's ok if it is for you too.
posted by lunastellasol at 5:16 PM on February 19, 2019
I do not think for a second that her account of this incident is honest. "MFA" is far too kind.
posted by bagel at 6:14 PM on February 19, 2019
posted by bagel at 6:14 PM on February 19, 2019
Okay, doesn't listen to you and spanks other people's children. Time to cut your losses.
And be kind to yourself. All break ups hurt to some degree.
posted by brookeb at 6:14 PM on February 19, 2019
And be kind to yourself. All break ups hurt to some degree.
posted by brookeb at 6:14 PM on February 19, 2019
she works two part time jobs, one as an outbound caller for a government program,
I just want to note that she is into complex tax fraud, while simultaneously being employed by the government. Like, the SovCits hate taxes too, but at least they're not hypocrites.
posted by Homeboy Trouble at 6:39 PM on February 19, 2019
I just want to note that she is into complex tax fraud, while simultaneously being employed by the government. Like, the SovCits hate taxes too, but at least they're not hypocrites.
posted by Homeboy Trouble at 6:39 PM on February 19, 2019
Like if her nicest, best talking-to-my-datefriend-over-dinner version of the story still has her deliberately raising a hand to someone else's child, I see it as overwhelmingly likely that this is someone who thinks physical abuse is justified, and is hoping you have no objections.
As she's also trying to pressure you to use drugs, the odds that she respects your boundaries are not great. Maybe consider breaking up with her via email or text, or at a restaurant with witnesses. I would not recommend letting this person into your home again.
posted by bagel at 6:41 PM on February 19, 2019
As she's also trying to pressure you to use drugs, the odds that she respects your boundaries are not great. Maybe consider breaking up with her via email or text, or at a restaurant with witnesses. I would not recommend letting this person into your home again.
posted by bagel at 6:41 PM on February 19, 2019
Lot of people here agreeing with you that what she's doing is fraudulent and criminal. None of them, as far as I can tell, are her accountant.
In your position I would not even begin to consider merging my personal finances with this person's. Separate bank accounts all the way. And don't sign anything without thoroughly understanding it first. But unless you can specifically identify some law she's actually breaking as opposed to simply taking advantage of and/or demonstrate that she doesn't have her documentation ducks in a row, perhaps back off on the "fraud" thing.
posted by flabdablet at 7:04 PM on February 19, 2019
In your position I would not even begin to consider merging my personal finances with this person's. Separate bank accounts all the way. And don't sign anything without thoroughly understanding it first. But unless you can specifically identify some law she's actually breaking as opposed to simply taking advantage of and/or demonstrate that she doesn't have her documentation ducks in a row, perhaps back off on the "fraud" thing.
posted by flabdablet at 7:04 PM on February 19, 2019
Thank you for your update.
Regarding "spanking", people are jumping to conclusions but all I see is that your girlfriend told you that she swatted a child, not that she bragged about it. Is it possible that she is overwhelmed working two jobs, dealing with children whose home situations are so messed up that they were placed in respite care, was shocked that she did that, and shared it with you as a shameful incident that can never ever happen again? I am not religious but she is doing god's work and typically people like that are very kind-hearted. (Of course if she did brag about it, hard stop for your relationship and please, call the child protective services asap.)
Back to taxes, I don't know here, man. Your girlfriend is working two low-paid part-time jobs one of which is a respite caregiver for children which is literally the hardest, most underpaid job there is (I hope everyone who assumed that this woman takes more than she gives back is embarrassed now because nobody is more net positive to society than caregivers). With her accountant's blessing, she is deducting mileage, postage, supplies, and home office, which are legitimate business expenses and the only reason they were done away with is because our corrupt government wanted to give a tax break to the ultra-rich. Personally, the only ethical failing I see here is that she can't deduct more, and while it is totally your right to be against it, I hope you can have some compassion for her situation as well.
About the edibles, it may be that while you see her as an irresponsible maybe-criminal, she sees you as someone who has a stick up his ass and could use edibles to relax and live a little, because I've had friends who thought that about their significant others (and were often not wrong from my perspective even though I am very conservative about drugs myself). Again, the mature way to think about this would be in terms of personal incompatibility rather than right vs. wrong.
Perhaps you could have some more conversations with your girlfriend before you decide. You clearly can't move forward until you know that she really gets it that the "spanking" was not an acceptable thing to do, and you can and should tell her to drop the edibles thing because it's not cool to pressure people into doing drugs.
posted by rada at 7:07 PM on February 19, 2019
Regarding "spanking", people are jumping to conclusions but all I see is that your girlfriend told you that she swatted a child, not that she bragged about it. Is it possible that she is overwhelmed working two jobs, dealing with children whose home situations are so messed up that they were placed in respite care, was shocked that she did that, and shared it with you as a shameful incident that can never ever happen again? I am not religious but she is doing god's work and typically people like that are very kind-hearted. (Of course if she did brag about it, hard stop for your relationship and please, call the child protective services asap.)
Back to taxes, I don't know here, man. Your girlfriend is working two low-paid part-time jobs one of which is a respite caregiver for children which is literally the hardest, most underpaid job there is (I hope everyone who assumed that this woman takes more than she gives back is embarrassed now because nobody is more net positive to society than caregivers). With her accountant's blessing, she is deducting mileage, postage, supplies, and home office, which are legitimate business expenses and the only reason they were done away with is because our corrupt government wanted to give a tax break to the ultra-rich. Personally, the only ethical failing I see here is that she can't deduct more, and while it is totally your right to be against it, I hope you can have some compassion for her situation as well.
About the edibles, it may be that while you see her as an irresponsible maybe-criminal, she sees you as someone who has a stick up his ass and could use edibles to relax and live a little, because I've had friends who thought that about their significant others (and were often not wrong from my perspective even though I am very conservative about drugs myself). Again, the mature way to think about this would be in terms of personal incompatibility rather than right vs. wrong.
Perhaps you could have some more conversations with your girlfriend before you decide. You clearly can't move forward until you know that she really gets it that the "spanking" was not an acceptable thing to do, and you can and should tell her to drop the edibles thing because it's not cool to pressure people into doing drugs.
posted by rada at 7:07 PM on February 19, 2019
Ugh, edibles. The quality control is typically balls, and oral ingestion is a stupid way of consuming cannabis anyway.
I'm sympathetic that she has two jobs, and one as a respite children's caregiver which is terribly difficult under the best of circumstances - but if what you understand is accurate, this is still tax evasion not merely tax avoidance. Like someone mentioned above, it's the smalltimers who get caught, not the multinationals. It's just easier going after the little fish.
Has she been around your kids? Have you asked them what they think about her?
posted by porpoise at 7:39 PM on February 19, 2019
I'm sympathetic that she has two jobs, and one as a respite children's caregiver which is terribly difficult under the best of circumstances - but if what you understand is accurate, this is still tax evasion not merely tax avoidance. Like someone mentioned above, it's the smalltimers who get caught, not the multinationals. It's just easier going after the little fish.
Has she been around your kids? Have you asked them what they think about her?
posted by porpoise at 7:39 PM on February 19, 2019
one of which is a respite caregiver for children which is literally the hardest, most underpaid job there is (I hope everyone who assumed that this woman takes more than she gives back is embarrassed now because nobody is more net positive to society than caregivers)
Not if she's hitting them.
I have standards for people in my life. My ethics don't completely coincide with the law; this is an unjust world. But I don't cultivate intimacy with people who I consider to be major transgressors against them, or even more minor ones that affect me more seriously emotionally. (I don't consider myself to be unerring either in my own conduct or my ethical reasoning, so I don't think it's appropriate to be totally unflexible, but I know where the line is.) I can't tell you that that's how you should live, but I must say it's served me pretty well in keeping me out of ugly messes and relatively protected from betrayals. I think it's unwise to date anyone you don't respect, for whatever reason.
(I will say that I lose respect fast for people whose "ethical reasoning" is clearly in the service of their own financial gratification. I deal with these people often at work, trying to justify horrible things they've done to vulnerable people. There's something peculiarly contemptible and offensive about it, being a bargain-basement version of Goldman Sachs. But that's an emotional reaction.)
posted by praemunire at 7:52 PM on February 19, 2019
Not if she's hitting them.
I have standards for people in my life. My ethics don't completely coincide with the law; this is an unjust world. But I don't cultivate intimacy with people who I consider to be major transgressors against them, or even more minor ones that affect me more seriously emotionally. (I don't consider myself to be unerring either in my own conduct or my ethical reasoning, so I don't think it's appropriate to be totally unflexible, but I know where the line is.) I can't tell you that that's how you should live, but I must say it's served me pretty well in keeping me out of ugly messes and relatively protected from betrayals. I think it's unwise to date anyone you don't respect, for whatever reason.
(I will say that I lose respect fast for people whose "ethical reasoning" is clearly in the service of their own financial gratification. I deal with these people often at work, trying to justify horrible things they've done to vulnerable people. There's something peculiarly contemptible and offensive about it, being a bargain-basement version of Goldman Sachs. But that's an emotional reaction.)
posted by praemunire at 7:52 PM on February 19, 2019
> a fake home-based business
Is that her characterization or yours? Could make quite a difference. There are many people who are involved in what I would call a "half-hearted side business" where it seems that the deductions are more important than the profit motive.
posted by yclipse at 8:04 PM on February 19, 2019
Is that her characterization or yours? Could make quite a difference. There are many people who are involved in what I would call a "half-hearted side business" where it seems that the deductions are more important than the profit motive.
posted by yclipse at 8:04 PM on February 19, 2019
Deductions for hobby expenses can't exceed revenue from that hobby, and the IRS defines a hobby as a revenue-generating activity that isn't done for a profit.
But all this speculation is kind of pointless. You're not sitting on a jury, you don't need to decide anything beyond a reasonable doubt. It seems to me like you have a gut feeling and are looking for reasons to break up. You should be discussing these concerns with her, not with us.
posted by muddgirl at 8:23 PM on February 19, 2019
But all this speculation is kind of pointless. You're not sitting on a jury, you don't need to decide anything beyond a reasonable doubt. It seems to me like you have a gut feeling and are looking for reasons to break up. You should be discussing these concerns with her, not with us.
posted by muddgirl at 8:23 PM on February 19, 2019
You know have already made your decision. This internet stranger gives you permission to break it off. You don't need the justification of tax fraud or a penchant for weed (tho the hitting a kid thing is really not ok). If you're not feeling it, you are allowed to go.
Take care of yourself. Take care of your kids. Agonizing over someone you no longer trust is just not worth it. Trust me on this.
posted by ananci at 8:24 PM on February 19, 2019
Take care of yourself. Take care of your kids. Agonizing over someone you no longer trust is just not worth it. Trust me on this.
posted by ananci at 8:24 PM on February 19, 2019
If she and her crooked accountant planned to engage in this fraud together, how is this not conspiracy to defraud the government—the kind of thing that Manafort (albeit on a much larger scale) is going to prison for?
This seems like a ticking time-bomb.
posted by blueberry at 8:48 PM on February 19, 2019
This seems like a ticking time-bomb.
posted by blueberry at 8:48 PM on February 19, 2019
It sounds like you don't want to be with her, and that's fine. But for the record / Metafilter tally, I'm with rada and yclipse. Tax law is basically written to be exploited, and morally, I can't think of anyone more deserving of a break than someone with two jobs like hers.
posted by batter_my_heart at 8:51 PM on February 19, 2019
posted by batter_my_heart at 8:51 PM on February 19, 2019
Whatever you do, don't marry her. You'll end up being yoked to her issues if she's ever audited.
posted by Anonymous at 6:35 AM on February 20, 2019
posted by Anonymous at 6:35 AM on February 20, 2019
I think of a functional, stable relationship like a three-legged stool. It is supported by three things: love, trust, respect.
Take away one of those three and it's pretty shaky. Remove two out of the three and you haven't got anything to keep the relationship upright and intact.
She's shown you that you can't trust her and can't respect her. Love isn't enough to keep this relationship strong and stable.
posted by Lunaloon at 10:51 AM on February 20, 2019
Take away one of those three and it's pretty shaky. Remove two out of the three and you haven't got anything to keep the relationship upright and intact.
She's shown you that you can't trust her and can't respect her. Love isn't enough to keep this relationship strong and stable.
posted by Lunaloon at 10:51 AM on February 20, 2019
Her accountant recommended this course of action, so its hard for me to get all judgmental about her ethics; that's your call. I'm maybe ask if she gives back somehow - charity or volunteering.
If you don't want to get entangled with her tax issues, never file with her. Advise her to find a 2nd opinion on the tax stuff because if she owes gobs of money to the IRS, life gets difficult.
posted by theora55 at 11:50 AM on February 20, 2019
If you don't want to get entangled with her tax issues, never file with her. Advise her to find a 2nd opinion on the tax stuff because if she owes gobs of money to the IRS, life gets difficult.
posted by theora55 at 11:50 AM on February 20, 2019
> dealing with children whose home situations are so messed up that they were placed in respite care
Or they could be kids with disabilities. Either way, they're particularly vulnerable and I hope you report this to whatever agency she works for.
posted by The corpse in the library at 1:11 PM on February 21, 2019
Or they could be kids with disabilities. Either way, they're particularly vulnerable and I hope you report this to whatever agency she works for.
posted by The corpse in the library at 1:11 PM on February 21, 2019
So...I brought up my thoughts about the tax thing, the spanking thing, and the edibles thing.
On the edibles, she was like, whatevs, glad you're being clear. No pressure.
On the taxes, she said sure, she'd like to do things differently, she's just used to thinking that way to survive.
On the spanking, she said the mom of the kid didn't mind, it was super light, so it's NBD.
Then she chastised me for judging her about this stuff, and she brought up other issues, too, and we broke up. And I'm alone in my house, except for my sweet dog Pumpkin (who my now-ex gf convinced me to get), and I simultaneously feel like I was wrong and a shit and I blew it and that it was best to end this now because it was always going to end anyway.
Thank you for putting your heads together, AskMe friends.
posted by Caxton1476 at 4:54 PM on February 22, 2019
On the edibles, she was like, whatevs, glad you're being clear. No pressure.
On the taxes, she said sure, she'd like to do things differently, she's just used to thinking that way to survive.
On the spanking, she said the mom of the kid didn't mind, it was super light, so it's NBD.
Then she chastised me for judging her about this stuff, and she brought up other issues, too, and we broke up. And I'm alone in my house, except for my sweet dog Pumpkin (who my now-ex gf convinced me to get), and I simultaneously feel like I was wrong and a shit and I blew it and that it was best to end this now because it was always going to end anyway.
Thank you for putting your heads together, AskMe friends.
posted by Caxton1476 at 4:54 PM on February 22, 2019
Good for you.
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:30 PM on February 22, 2019
posted by jenfullmoon at 5:30 PM on February 22, 2019
Respecting the clean break.
You now know that you weren't going to be able to change her ways/ thinking/ ethics to align with yours (without bending yours), so you cut your opportunity cost of finding someone who does align with you all/most the way - instead of just some of the way.
I'm turning 41 this year and I'm regretting a lot of time-/ opportunity- costs of relationships that I tried carrying for far too long.
posted by porpoise at 8:17 PM on February 22, 2019
You now know that you weren't going to be able to change her ways/ thinking/ ethics to align with yours (without bending yours), so you cut your opportunity cost of finding someone who does align with you all/most the way - instead of just some of the way.
I'm turning 41 this year and I'm regretting a lot of time-/ opportunity- costs of relationships that I tried carrying for far too long.
posted by porpoise at 8:17 PM on February 22, 2019
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by The_Vegetables at 2:39 PM on February 19, 2019