Ebay item not as described, but no comeback?
October 4, 2018 2:24 PM
I think I may have been a little naïve. Bought some reclaimed wooden flooring on eBay UK from an architectural antiques place. Listing was for a single square metre then seller asked via my Paypal email for a BACS transfer for the money to cover the other 24m2. Flooring arrived today and 25% or more is unusable. Any suggestions?
Original listing showed beautifully preserved boards with intact tongue and grooves. In the seller wrote that they had 55m2 of such 'stunning' boards available. The listing on the site was priced for a single square metre (£32) with the postage charge set for a courier delivery (£85).
I sent the seller - an architectural antiques business with premises around 400 miles from me - a message asking for a price on 25m2 and we agreed on £800 including delivery. They said that I should Buy It Now on the listing and then they would send me BACS details for the rest of the payment. D'oh. So I'm not covered for the whole purchase under eBay's money back guarantee.
On arrival around 7m2 of the board had significant black damp stains, entirely broken tongues, missing lower grooves and/or severe pitting to the surface finish. Many are completely unusable; some could be sanded back and refinished, yet the floor was sold as 'needing only a light going over with some linseed oil'. I don't think I have enough for my project, although I could perhaps squeeze out the main room and do the hallway in another wood. Though I don't want to.
I've just sent the business owner a message explaining the above and have said I'll come back to him tomorrow with pictures in daylight. But how can I play this? I'm angry and frustrated and feel like an idiot. Should I just send the whole lot back? Do I have any comeback through eBay? What would you do? Or what would you ask him to do?
Original listing showed beautifully preserved boards with intact tongue and grooves. In the seller wrote that they had 55m2 of such 'stunning' boards available. The listing on the site was priced for a single square metre (£32) with the postage charge set for a courier delivery (£85).
I sent the seller - an architectural antiques business with premises around 400 miles from me - a message asking for a price on 25m2 and we agreed on £800 including delivery. They said that I should Buy It Now on the listing and then they would send me BACS details for the rest of the payment. D'oh. So I'm not covered for the whole purchase under eBay's money back guarantee.
On arrival around 7m2 of the board had significant black damp stains, entirely broken tongues, missing lower grooves and/or severe pitting to the surface finish. Many are completely unusable; some could be sanded back and refinished, yet the floor was sold as 'needing only a light going over with some linseed oil'. I don't think I have enough for my project, although I could perhaps squeeze out the main room and do the hallway in another wood. Though I don't want to.
I've just sent the business owner a message explaining the above and have said I'll come back to him tomorrow with pictures in daylight. But how can I play this? I'm angry and frustrated and feel like an idiot. Should I just send the whole lot back? Do I have any comeback through eBay? What would you do? Or what would you ask him to do?
Document very well, especially the communications or listing info that claimed that the boards were in excellent condition. Then take lots of photos of what you received . Ask for a full refund including all extra costs for delivery, etc. If the seller wants the boards back, they can make arrangements to pick up and pay for that themselves. If there's not an acceptable response from the seller, go to ebay and contest the sale as misrepresentation of the condition of the items. You will be able to send ebay your photos and other evidence. In a case of clear misrepresentation like this, they have the power to refund your money. Pursue the rest through small claims court.
posted by quince at 2:44 PM on October 4, 2018
posted by quince at 2:44 PM on October 4, 2018
Well, wait and talk to him tomorrow after he's seen the photos. He may be perfectly amenable to making this right. If he isn't, the fact that this was a UK - UK transaction is more important than the Paypal aspect. You are covered by faulty goods and misrepresentation consumer law in the UK. You can reject the goods, and Trading Standards is also great with this sort of thing.
posted by DarlingBri at 2:46 PM on October 4, 2018
posted by DarlingBri at 2:46 PM on October 4, 2018
What you're describing is absolutely a violation of eBay terms by the seller (both requesting to make an additional sale outside of the eBay platform, and probably also using your payment email to conduct the transaction instead of using the eBay messaging function), but it does sound like you initiated the additional transaction, which complicates the matter. However, they should have either revised the listing or created a new one in order to sell you the full quantity through eBay. How much of the process is there a record of in your eBay messages?
Unfortunately they are not going to be able to do more for you than maybe refund the Buy It Now purchase of 1 m2 that was bought through eBay and paid through PayPal. Beyond that, they might kick the seller off or put some sort of strike on their account, but that isn't going to help you. Not familiar with BACS so I don't know if there are any protections there, but assuming it's like a check or wire transfer, probably not.
You mention the seller is a not-quite-local business with actual premises. Are you able to find any information about them, e.g. local equivalent of Better Business Bureau, online reviews, etc? What about eBay feedback ratings for their previous sales? What to do next really depends on whether you think they are shady in general or you just got a bad deal. Sending it all back has the very real possibility of leaving you with no refund and no product either, just a huge shipping bill (and they could be counting on that "sunk cost" to deter you from pushing the matter).
I would say, see how the seller responds to the material questions before bringing up any wrongdoing. If they get cagey and defensive from the start, they probably know they scammed you, but if you lead with threats to report them, they will naturally push back. But if you aren't satisfied with the ultimate outcome, absolutely report them.
posted by CyberSlug Labs at 2:59 PM on October 4, 2018
Unfortunately they are not going to be able to do more for you than maybe refund the Buy It Now purchase of 1 m2 that was bought through eBay and paid through PayPal. Beyond that, they might kick the seller off or put some sort of strike on their account, but that isn't going to help you. Not familiar with BACS so I don't know if there are any protections there, but assuming it's like a check or wire transfer, probably not.
You mention the seller is a not-quite-local business with actual premises. Are you able to find any information about them, e.g. local equivalent of Better Business Bureau, online reviews, etc? What about eBay feedback ratings for their previous sales? What to do next really depends on whether you think they are shady in general or you just got a bad deal. Sending it all back has the very real possibility of leaving you with no refund and no product either, just a huge shipping bill (and they could be counting on that "sunk cost" to deter you from pushing the matter).
I would say, see how the seller responds to the material questions before bringing up any wrongdoing. If they get cagey and defensive from the start, they probably know they scammed you, but if you lead with threats to report them, they will naturally push back. But if you aren't satisfied with the ultimate outcome, absolutely report them.
posted by CyberSlug Labs at 2:59 PM on October 4, 2018
Thanks everyone.
Initial message from seller via eBay:
"Thanks for getting in touch
Some of this has just sold - but I have more than enough to send you 25 m sq. it really is lovely flooring!
I can do a great deal at £800.00 including packaging & delivery service to your address - which is a great saving!
(To keep eBay happy ... You would first need to purchase the 1m sq via eBay and would turn need to pay balance via BACS)
Hope you like that great deal!
Let me know your thoughts
Best Regards"
After I made payment for the item via Buy It Now they then contacted me on my Paypal email with an invoice with their bank details.
posted by doornoise at 3:05 PM on October 4, 2018
Initial message from seller via eBay:
"Thanks for getting in touch
Some of this has just sold - but I have more than enough to send you 25 m sq. it really is lovely flooring!
I can do a great deal at £800.00 including packaging & delivery service to your address - which is a great saving!
(To keep eBay happy ... You would first need to purchase the 1m sq via eBay and would turn need to pay balance via BACS)
Hope you like that great deal!
Let me know your thoughts
Best Regards"
After I made payment for the item via Buy It Now they then contacted me on my Paypal email with an invoice with their bank details.
posted by doornoise at 3:05 PM on October 4, 2018
To answer more questions: seller has been an eBay user since 2006 with 100% positive feedback. Facebook page has lots of good reviews as well.
The seller doesn't seem to deal in flooring or bulk products usually so perhaps this is a one-off misrepresentation and they've overstepped the eBay regs without deliberate ill intent.
posted by doornoise at 3:17 PM on October 4, 2018
The seller doesn't seem to deal in flooring or bulk products usually so perhaps this is a one-off misrepresentation and they've overstepped the eBay regs without deliberate ill intent.
posted by doornoise at 3:17 PM on October 4, 2018
A supplier like this should be used to dealing with trade customers. Trade customers will reject stuff like this without blinking. Follow the advice above, I suspect the supplier may simply roll over.
posted by deadwax at 3:48 PM on October 4, 2018
posted by deadwax at 3:48 PM on October 4, 2018
Deadwax is right. If (in a previous job) I were buying flooring from a vendor for a reno job and it showed up unfit for purpose, I'd simply reject it. I would actually call them up on the phone and say "this flooring you sent me is no good, I can't accept it," and they'd make it right. If they're a real, non-shady business they'll have no trouble dealing with this.
Call them on the phone and just tell them matter-of-factly that you're not accepting the flooring and want a refund. Don't even offer to send back the garbage flooring, if they want it back they can work for it. Happens all the time in the trades.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 4:00 PM on October 4, 2018
Call them on the phone and just tell them matter-of-factly that you're not accepting the flooring and want a refund. Don't even offer to send back the garbage flooring, if they want it back they can work for it. Happens all the time in the trades.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 4:00 PM on October 4, 2018
Call them on the phone though, for real. Email is nice and nonconfrontational, but phone calls get results.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 4:03 PM on October 4, 2018
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 4:03 PM on October 4, 2018
So I had a long winded reply to my email from the seller this morning, generally harping on about how you can't expect a reclaimed product to be perfect and how he's laid a load of the same flooring with no problems at all and blah.
Inspired by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The's advice, I called the guy up to say that I couldn't accept the flooring. He was definitely cagey at first, trying to suggest that I'd misinterpreted the listing and didn't know what I was talking about. I just told him that I didn't want a dispute and the product wasn't as described, nor fit for purpose. He tried to get me to pay a 'restocking' fee, but I stuck to my guns and he emailed me shortly afterwards agreeing to a full refund and to send his own courier to pick up the planks at his expense.
I doubt I'd have had the ovaries to get this result without everyone's suggestions, so thank you all very much!
posted by doornoise at 1:56 PM on October 5, 2018
Inspired by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The's advice, I called the guy up to say that I couldn't accept the flooring. He was definitely cagey at first, trying to suggest that I'd misinterpreted the listing and didn't know what I was talking about. I just told him that I didn't want a dispute and the product wasn't as described, nor fit for purpose. He tried to get me to pay a 'restocking' fee, but I stuck to my guns and he emailed me shortly afterwards agreeing to a full refund and to send his own courier to pick up the planks at his expense.
I doubt I'd have had the ovaries to get this result without everyone's suggestions, so thank you all very much!
posted by doornoise at 1:56 PM on October 5, 2018
Woo, good job sticking to your guns! We'll make a GC out of you yet, that was very nicely played. You just made what was turning out to be a pretty shitty day for me, thanks very much for the excellent update. Well done!
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 4:06 PM on October 5, 2018
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 4:06 PM on October 5, 2018
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posted by holgate at 2:40 PM on October 4, 2018