How do you figure out spending for kid with special needs after divorce?
June 25, 2018 6:07 PM Subscribe
How do you figure out how much to spend on kids with special needs when the parents are divorced?
In Canada, special and extraordinary expenses are supposed to be shared by the parents, based on proportionate income. So, say one earns $50k and the other earns $150k, the lower earner would pay 1/4 and the higher earner would pay 3/4s. But how do you figure out how much is reasonable in the first place, especially if one parent has very little income, especially if they have had to become full-time caregiver because of extraordinary special needs?
Take a situation where there's a long history of abuse, including financial abuse, and that parent has a high income where as the parent with primary caregiving responsibilities has ended up with very little. How do you figure out what is reasonable when the high income parent says they can never afford anything and the children are suffering as a result and it's becoming difficult for the lower income parent to provide them with the therapies and tools they need. Is there some sort of way to determine what is reasonable to expect? For example, a parent who earns $25k a year might struggle to pay for sports, counselling, tutoring, occupational therapy or computers, even when a child has a lot of disabilities. But what happens when one parent has a very high income and the other has ended up pretty much having to give up their career to support the child, because the child can't get through a school day, can't attend school, has a very complex appointment schedule and more? These aren't supposed to come out of basic child support. So how is it figured out, especially when one parent says everything is impossible and they're the one with the higher income? If it went to court, how would a judge decide?
In Canada, special and extraordinary expenses are supposed to be shared by the parents, based on proportionate income. So, say one earns $50k and the other earns $150k, the lower earner would pay 1/4 and the higher earner would pay 3/4s. But how do you figure out how much is reasonable in the first place, especially if one parent has very little income, especially if they have had to become full-time caregiver because of extraordinary special needs?
Take a situation where there's a long history of abuse, including financial abuse, and that parent has a high income where as the parent with primary caregiving responsibilities has ended up with very little. How do you figure out what is reasonable when the high income parent says they can never afford anything and the children are suffering as a result and it's becoming difficult for the lower income parent to provide them with the therapies and tools they need. Is there some sort of way to determine what is reasonable to expect? For example, a parent who earns $25k a year might struggle to pay for sports, counselling, tutoring, occupational therapy or computers, even when a child has a lot of disabilities. But what happens when one parent has a very high income and the other has ended up pretty much having to give up their career to support the child, because the child can't get through a school day, can't attend school, has a very complex appointment schedule and more? These aren't supposed to come out of basic child support. So how is it figured out, especially when one parent says everything is impossible and they're the one with the higher income? If it went to court, how would a judge decide?
Response by poster: Thanks. I am talking to my lawyer, but I was hoping there is some guideline. Everything I read just explains what the expenses are and how to divide them up. The article you provided was helpful because it doesn't say the other person has to agree. However, I can't find anything that says what is reasonable to ask. It also doesn't say what to do if a lot of expenses are consummables or variable expenses, as opposed to knowing that you are paying private school tuition or whatever.
posted by shockpoppet at 7:13 PM on June 25, 2018
posted by shockpoppet at 7:13 PM on June 25, 2018
Best answer: It does depend on the judge, but judges like to rely on non-biased professional assessments. So anything you feel is necessary make sure you have at least one, if not two medical professionals saying this specific item is needed. As well, make sure you include respite care for yourself as a necessary expense. You can’t risk burning yourself out and most judges agrees respite care is a normal, payable section seven.
posted by saucysault at 7:19 PM on June 25, 2018 [3 favorites]
posted by saucysault at 7:19 PM on June 25, 2018 [3 favorites]
the children are suffering as a result.....provide them with the therapies and tools they need.
This is just my opinion now, but absolutely anything where you'd say the children are suffering without it, or it is something the children need, is reasonable to ask for. If you think that a family of similar means and values to your own would be likely to pay for it, that's a good guide. If it's something that your own family did pay for before splitting up, that's a very good guide. Anything that a standard medical professional would recommend is worth asking for - this page lists standard accepted expenses including occupational therapy, counselling, orthodontics, tutoring, etc (and, as saucysault mentioned, childcare for the custodial parent).
There is no more specific standard for what can be included because it is highly related to what things would have been paid for if the parents had not split up, and that is clearly very specific to a family. So along with the professional assessments, a judge would pay attention to evidence you can provide to show spending habits or assumptions about opportunities for the children that were made before the divorce.
posted by the agents of KAOS at 7:30 PM on June 25, 2018
This is just my opinion now, but absolutely anything where you'd say the children are suffering without it, or it is something the children need, is reasonable to ask for. If you think that a family of similar means and values to your own would be likely to pay for it, that's a good guide. If it's something that your own family did pay for before splitting up, that's a very good guide. Anything that a standard medical professional would recommend is worth asking for - this page lists standard accepted expenses including occupational therapy, counselling, orthodontics, tutoring, etc (and, as saucysault mentioned, childcare for the custodial parent).
There is no more specific standard for what can be included because it is highly related to what things would have been paid for if the parents had not split up, and that is clearly very specific to a family. So along with the professional assessments, a judge would pay attention to evidence you can provide to show spending habits or assumptions about opportunities for the children that were made before the divorce.
posted by the agents of KAOS at 7:30 PM on June 25, 2018
Best answer: Obviously this is dependent on your jurisdiction and your own lawyer’s advice, but to me what seems logical is that you ask your ex to cover all of these additional expenses, plus give you alimony as partial compensation for your own time as primary caregiver. Whether this is feasible only your lawyer can say but I think this is the starting point for discussion.
posted by JenMarie at 7:38 PM on June 25, 2018 [1 favorite]
posted by JenMarie at 7:38 PM on June 25, 2018 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thanks. The other parent's income has doubled to a very high income while mine has dropped to almost nothing (other than support). We were saving to buy a home in a very expensive city and prioritizing retirement savings before the divorce, which was many years ago, when our children were tiny and before we could have guessed that there would be needs like this. I do have professionals recommending a long list of things. But the other parent constantly says they can't afford anything and, honestly, I've bent over backwards to do stuff myself, get charities to help me, find government programs, lobby the school for support, etc. Our kids are basically teens now and I'm looking and seeing that their needs aren't changing and are just getting bigger and we just have a limited time before it's too late. All over the special needs social media groups, I see people spending way more and they don't have any charity or whatever...they just do whatever it takes. But they're still married....
posted by shockpoppet at 7:43 PM on June 25, 2018
posted by shockpoppet at 7:43 PM on June 25, 2018
Best answer: "But the other parent constantly says they can't afford anything "
Is he telling YOU this or is he telling the COURT this? Because a judge is going to be super unimpressed that a very high-income parent can't provide for his disabled children and expects their full-time-caregiving mother to do it on hardly any money. That's the kind of thing that'll get your wages garnished. Canada even allows child support enforcement authorities to put liens on real property and to garnish joint accounts, to issue support orders against people who are helping the non-paying parent to hide or protect assets, and to suspend drivers' licenses or passports.
Typically the court will prioritize the children's health and wellbeing needs over literally everything else and he will be required to pay for them even if it means he has to sell his fancy flat and move into something less expensive or whatever. The one exception to this is if he has other children he is also supporting; the court will allow a reasonable split in that case.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 5:58 AM on June 26, 2018 [6 favorites]
Is he telling YOU this or is he telling the COURT this? Because a judge is going to be super unimpressed that a very high-income parent can't provide for his disabled children and expects their full-time-caregiving mother to do it on hardly any money. That's the kind of thing that'll get your wages garnished. Canada even allows child support enforcement authorities to put liens on real property and to garnish joint accounts, to issue support orders against people who are helping the non-paying parent to hide or protect assets, and to suspend drivers' licenses or passports.
Typically the court will prioritize the children's health and wellbeing needs over literally everything else and he will be required to pay for them even if it means he has to sell his fancy flat and move into something less expensive or whatever. The one exception to this is if he has other children he is also supporting; the court will allow a reasonable split in that case.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 5:58 AM on June 26, 2018 [6 favorites]
Best answer: Except for kids with special needs, I was/am in a similar situation. My ex makes a lot more money than I do, but has a ridiculous idea of what is a reasonable amount of spending (on children or anything). He was financially abusive throughout our marriage.
My sincere and completely serious advice to you is this: TAKE HIM FOR ALL HE'S WORTH. You will have to deprogram yourself from your long habits of fearing him, wanting to convince him, wanting to prove that you are not a gold-digging bitch, etc etc etc. Fuck it. Tell all those fears and insecurities that you will deal with them later. Right now it's time to take care of your future self and your kids. Embrace all the labels and epithets thrown at you, either by him or by culture at large or by your own head. Yes, you are a motherfucking golddigger. Yes, you are the craze ex wife who bankrupts the poor, poor husband by using misandrist family court systems. Yes, you are the ball-busting man-hating feminazi who is going to mooch off her husband's income for the rest of her life. FUCK YES. Embrace it.
- Ask for the highest possible amount of child support based on not just the needs but the luxurious wants of your special needs child. Why do I say this? Because I know that years of financial abuse have programmed you to consider basic shit to be "luxuries." Fuck him. Ask for the most luxirious existence imaginable for your child.
- Demand alimony. You deserve it, you need it. Divorces like these are the #1 cause of women falling into poverty. Do not fall for his lies. He does not need as much money as he claims. Demand what you are due. Hell, demand more.
- Take all the assets you possibly can and ask for way, way more than you are comfortable with. This means you ask for more than 50%. It's only fair, because you are the primary caregiver for a special needs child and you have given up your income and potential in order to enable his. Again, demand more than your due.
Trust me on this comment. You have been programmed and brainwashed and abused long enough that you sincerely believe that you do not have needs. You have minimized yourself and your humanity. You have a hard time imagining that you deserve anything. THIS IS NORMAL. You will heal from it. Someday you will recover enough of your old personality that you will begin to feel and understand that you are worth quite a lot. That your needs and wants deserve to be honored. It will happen, no matter how hard it is for you to imagine this right now.
But you cannot wait to negotiate this divorce until you are healed. You have to do it right now, at a time when you believe you are worthless and a moocher and you are too demanding etc etc. This is a complication, but not an insurmountable one. Please take my advice. Embrace the labels and persona of "bitch" and "moocher" and take that man for all you possibly can. You can give it back to him later if you regret it, okay? I promise. For now, though, go kick his butt.
(Confession: I didn't quite take this advice myself. But hearing this advice made me ask for about HALF of what I was entitled to from him rather than ~10% like I had originally been planning. I'm so grateful. There was no sense in impoverishing myself to keep him happy and prove my "goodness" to him like I had been planning to do before. The only reason I can buy my kids new backpacks every couple of years instead of browsing for castoffs at garage sales is because I asked for much much more than I felt comfortable with, no matter how many names my ex called me.)
posted by MiraK at 6:53 AM on June 26, 2018 [16 favorites]
My sincere and completely serious advice to you is this: TAKE HIM FOR ALL HE'S WORTH. You will have to deprogram yourself from your long habits of fearing him, wanting to convince him, wanting to prove that you are not a gold-digging bitch, etc etc etc. Fuck it. Tell all those fears and insecurities that you will deal with them later. Right now it's time to take care of your future self and your kids. Embrace all the labels and epithets thrown at you, either by him or by culture at large or by your own head. Yes, you are a motherfucking golddigger. Yes, you are the craze ex wife who bankrupts the poor, poor husband by using misandrist family court systems. Yes, you are the ball-busting man-hating feminazi who is going to mooch off her husband's income for the rest of her life. FUCK YES. Embrace it.
- Ask for the highest possible amount of child support based on not just the needs but the luxurious wants of your special needs child. Why do I say this? Because I know that years of financial abuse have programmed you to consider basic shit to be "luxuries." Fuck him. Ask for the most luxirious existence imaginable for your child.
- Demand alimony. You deserve it, you need it. Divorces like these are the #1 cause of women falling into poverty. Do not fall for his lies. He does not need as much money as he claims. Demand what you are due. Hell, demand more.
- Take all the assets you possibly can and ask for way, way more than you are comfortable with. This means you ask for more than 50%. It's only fair, because you are the primary caregiver for a special needs child and you have given up your income and potential in order to enable his. Again, demand more than your due.
Trust me on this comment. You have been programmed and brainwashed and abused long enough that you sincerely believe that you do not have needs. You have minimized yourself and your humanity. You have a hard time imagining that you deserve anything. THIS IS NORMAL. You will heal from it. Someday you will recover enough of your old personality that you will begin to feel and understand that you are worth quite a lot. That your needs and wants deserve to be honored. It will happen, no matter how hard it is for you to imagine this right now.
But you cannot wait to negotiate this divorce until you are healed. You have to do it right now, at a time when you believe you are worthless and a moocher and you are too demanding etc etc. This is a complication, but not an insurmountable one. Please take my advice. Embrace the labels and persona of "bitch" and "moocher" and take that man for all you possibly can. You can give it back to him later if you regret it, okay? I promise. For now, though, go kick his butt.
(Confession: I didn't quite take this advice myself. But hearing this advice made me ask for about HALF of what I was entitled to from him rather than ~10% like I had originally been planning. I'm so grateful. There was no sense in impoverishing myself to keep him happy and prove my "goodness" to him like I had been planning to do before. The only reason I can buy my kids new backpacks every couple of years instead of browsing for castoffs at garage sales is because I asked for much much more than I felt comfortable with, no matter how many names my ex called me.)
posted by MiraK at 6:53 AM on June 26, 2018 [16 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
But you should ask some lawyers.
posted by the agents of KAOS at 7:07 PM on June 25, 2018 [3 favorites]