Gay 15yo nephew in Ohio, Super-Religious parents reaches a crisis: help?
May 3, 2018 12:56 PM
My nephew is 15 years old. He lives in Ohio. His parents are very, very Pentecostal. He is very, very gay. Last week he sent out a call for help and I've not been able to reach him. Please offer any wisdom or advice you have.
He and I have been in communication for the last 10 years and he has made it clear that he is gay and has been consistent on this for the last 5 years.
He tried to come out to his parents several months ago and his father punched him in the face once and basically told him not to be gay. I think that this was documented in some way but am unsure. No other reports of anything physical ever happening.
He has come out to me and friends at school, which he loves. He has always received straight As in every subject.
Last week he sent a call for help to me and called the cops because something happened—I'm not sure what. I have not been able to speak to him but his parents have told me that he is OK and to cease communication with him and with them. I have done enough, etc. The cops came and checked things out, it would seem, but did nothing except say that they were Christian men and they "understood the parent's problems."
It appears that they have pulled him out of school completely, un-enrolled him.
I, of course, have very little recourse aside from calling CPS. I know the parents and their church believe in conversion therapy and have actually used it on my nephew in the past. It is legal in Ohio.
Does anyone have any advice. I don't want to make it worse for my nephew, but their taking him out of school is extreme: I worry about his mental state and his loss of hope. He had hoped to leave home and go to college when he was 18, etc. This feels like it will seem like the end of his hopes.
He and I have been in communication for the last 10 years and he has made it clear that he is gay and has been consistent on this for the last 5 years.
He tried to come out to his parents several months ago and his father punched him in the face once and basically told him not to be gay. I think that this was documented in some way but am unsure. No other reports of anything physical ever happening.
He has come out to me and friends at school, which he loves. He has always received straight As in every subject.
Last week he sent a call for help to me and called the cops because something happened—I'm not sure what. I have not been able to speak to him but his parents have told me that he is OK and to cease communication with him and with them. I have done enough, etc. The cops came and checked things out, it would seem, but did nothing except say that they were Christian men and they "understood the parent's problems."
It appears that they have pulled him out of school completely, un-enrolled him.
I, of course, have very little recourse aside from calling CPS. I know the parents and their church believe in conversion therapy and have actually used it on my nephew in the past. It is legal in Ohio.
Does anyone have any advice. I don't want to make it worse for my nephew, but their taking him out of school is extreme: I worry about his mental state and his loss of hope. He had hoped to leave home and go to college when he was 18, etc. This feels like it will seem like the end of his hopes.
I, of course, have very little recourse aside from calling CPS.
Call CPS.
posted by Smearcase at 1:07 PM on May 3, 2018
Call CPS.
posted by Smearcase at 1:07 PM on May 3, 2018
I'd call a family law lawyer and then hire them. Depending on what outcome you're looking for go from there.
In your shoes I'd be looking for help getting the emancipation process started and looking to take on a new kid.
posted by French Fry at 1:11 PM on May 3, 2018
In your shoes I'd be looking for help getting the emancipation process started and looking to take on a new kid.
posted by French Fry at 1:11 PM on May 3, 2018
(Not to be brusque. Thank you for your kindness to your gay nephew. He’s in a bad situation and is fortunate to have you in his corner.)
posted by Smearcase at 1:11 PM on May 3, 2018
posted by Smearcase at 1:11 PM on May 3, 2018
I'd buy a plane ticket and go there. Try to see him. If that's not possible, then yes, CPS.
Other thoughts:
Do you have any connections to anyone connected to him -- via Facebook or other social media, maybe? Is there any other family there?
I'd consider this an emergency and pull out all the stops you can.
posted by BlahLaLa at 1:12 PM on May 3, 2018
Other thoughts:
Do you have any connections to anyone connected to him -- via Facebook or other social media, maybe? Is there any other family there?
I'd consider this an emergency and pull out all the stops you can.
posted by BlahLaLa at 1:12 PM on May 3, 2018
I stand corrected, there is no emancipation process in Ohio. So ignore that part.
posted by French Fry at 1:12 PM on May 3, 2018
posted by French Fry at 1:12 PM on May 3, 2018
Is there a chapter of PFLAG nearby? Perhaps you can reach out to them and get some advice on what steps to take. Find someone who's been through something similar.
posted by thenormshow at 1:21 PM on May 3, 2018
posted by thenormshow at 1:21 PM on May 3, 2018
i would get on a plane in a second but I think it may just make things worse. Their vilianization of me as a person enables them to further isolate my nephew. That’s my fear.
posted by n9 at 1:21 PM on May 3, 2018
posted by n9 at 1:21 PM on May 3, 2018
To them, you might be a villain. But they're isolating him anyway, and you're right - pulling him out of school is very extreme. What your nephew needs isn't his parents' villain - it's his own hero.
posted by Tomorrowful at 1:26 PM on May 3, 2018
posted by Tomorrowful at 1:26 PM on May 3, 2018
So, it sounds like *you* don't have any standing with the parents, but do you know anyone who does? Someone who, maybe, the parents don't see as being as threatening as you, but still someone who would at least have a problem with adults physically assaulting a child? Maybe a common relative who is closer to them? Maybe even a friend of theirs, or one of your nephew's friends' parents?
If you could recruit someone who's at least a little closer to the parents' worldview, it could be helpful. It's a long shot though.
posted by mskyle at 1:26 PM on May 3, 2018
If you could recruit someone who's at least a little closer to the parents' worldview, it could be helpful. It's a long shot though.
posted by mskyle at 1:26 PM on May 3, 2018
Only you know how they would react to your showing up - from an outside perspective it seems like it would signal clearly to them that you are committed to protecting your nephew and wont be letting them continue to abuse him without objection. It sounded like things were a lost cause both between you and his parents and between him and his parents, so its unclear how this could make things worse. What does "further isolate" mean when they are already pulling him out of school and not allowing you (or, presumably other folks with his best interests at heart) to speak with him?
It would obviously be on the other side of massive legal and emotional hurdles, but my mind jumps to the long game anyhow: are you prepared to take him in and provide for him if he can manage to get away and his parents turn their backs?
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 1:26 PM on May 3, 2018
It would obviously be on the other side of massive legal and emotional hurdles, but my mind jumps to the long game anyhow: are you prepared to take him in and provide for him if he can manage to get away and his parents turn their backs?
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 1:26 PM on May 3, 2018
The fact that he has been removed from school is disturbing. Call CPS for your nephew’s protection. Is there other family that could be involved as well?
posted by epj at 1:29 PM on May 3, 2018
posted by epj at 1:29 PM on May 3, 2018
Find a local group that is specifically for queer teens in distress in Ohio, especially as it relates to conversion therapy. Ask them what to do. You might also find some Pentecostal rescue groups and talk to them.
Do you have other Pentecostal family that does talk to you? Were you raised in it? Have the parents officially shunned you?
posted by I'm Not Even Supposed To Be Here Today! at 1:32 PM on May 3, 2018
Do you have other Pentecostal family that does talk to you? Were you raised in it? Have the parents officially shunned you?
posted by I'm Not Even Supposed To Be Here Today! at 1:32 PM on May 3, 2018
There is an Affirming Pentecostal Church in Ohio. I would call or write them too.
posted by I'm Not Even Supposed To Be Here Today! at 1:35 PM on May 3, 2018
posted by I'm Not Even Supposed To Be Here Today! at 1:35 PM on May 3, 2018
There is no other family to go to. I should have said that. The only family that we have in common is even more fervently religious and homophobic and have engaged in different versions of conversion therapy and other abuses. It is a really bad scene.
They simply view everyone outside the church as sinners that are doing Satan's work. Literally. Their only community is their church, which is seemingly in support of isolation, homeschooling and conversion therapy.
posted by n9 at 1:36 PM on May 3, 2018
They simply view everyone outside the church as sinners that are doing Satan's work. Literally. Their only community is their church, which is seemingly in support of isolation, homeschooling and conversion therapy.
posted by n9 at 1:36 PM on May 3, 2018
Start a GoFundMe amongst your support network and hire a family lawyer recommended by pflag and vetted by you to advocate for your nephew and SAVE HIM. Let people who know you know about the peril your nephew is in, allow them to help you and your nephew with practical, financial, and emotional support.
Throw as much light on this as you can. Don't let this happen in secret.
Godspeed.
posted by jbenben at 1:40 PM on May 3, 2018
Throw as much light on this as you can. Don't let this happen in secret.
Godspeed.
posted by jbenben at 1:40 PM on May 3, 2018
This is why you need to talk to people who have dealt with the group, either from the inside or in opposition. You should absolutely call CPS, but in my experience, pulling kids out of school for religious reasons won't raise any eyebrows.
posted by I'm Not Even Supposed To Be Here Today! at 1:42 PM on May 3, 2018
posted by I'm Not Even Supposed To Be Here Today! at 1:42 PM on May 3, 2018
You also have to realize that if you manage to save him, his family will cut all communication with him, likely forever. You both need to be prepared and accepting of that.
This is such a hard thing and there may be no answer until he's a couple years older. Even though they told you to cease communications, I would still write him letters - ones that you know his parents will read and likely not give him, but he still might find them.
posted by I'm Not Even Supposed To Be Here Today! at 1:45 PM on May 3, 2018
This is such a hard thing and there may be no answer until he's a couple years older. Even though they told you to cease communications, I would still write him letters - ones that you know his parents will read and likely not give him, but he still might find them.
posted by I'm Not Even Supposed To Be Here Today! at 1:45 PM on May 3, 2018
If you do set up a go fund me or there’s some other way we can help, post the link in your profile and let us know:
posted by jrobin276 at 1:49 PM on May 3, 2018
posted by jrobin276 at 1:49 PM on May 3, 2018
Several LGBTQ organizations I just collected for you. Pick the closest one or just call them all and ask for resources:
Dayton LGBT Center 937-274-1776
LGBT Community Center Cleveland 216-651-5428
Stonewall Columbus (614) 299-7764
Kaleidoscope Ohio (614) 294-5437
posted by nakedmolerats at 1:51 PM on May 3, 2018
Dayton LGBT Center 937-274-1776
LGBT Community Center Cleveland 216-651-5428
Stonewall Columbus (614) 299-7764
Kaleidoscope Ohio (614) 294-5437
posted by nakedmolerats at 1:51 PM on May 3, 2018
You can certainly try sending him certified letters. At least you'll know they were delivered and who received them.
posted by ancient star at 1:52 PM on May 3, 2018
posted by ancient star at 1:52 PM on May 3, 2018
Friends. Thank you so much for your wisdom. This has oriented me in a way that I very much needed.
posted by n9 at 1:58 PM on May 3, 2018
posted by n9 at 1:58 PM on May 3, 2018
Could you reach out to some of his former teachers? Or perhaps his friends/ friends' parents who might be able to swing by the house and make sure he's okay? If he loved being open at school, chances are he found some support there and you might be able to find someone willing to help you - someone whom his parents may not view as threatening or villainous as they do you.
posted by Everydayville at 1:58 PM on May 3, 2018
posted by Everydayville at 1:58 PM on May 3, 2018
If you do start a GoFundMe page and if you don't feel comfortable with sharing it here, please PM me the details. I grew up in a similar religious community and my lifelong dearest friend could have been your nephew 30 years ago. Thank you for taking action.
posted by pammeke at 2:06 PM on May 3, 2018
posted by pammeke at 2:06 PM on May 3, 2018
If all else fails, make sure you're easily discoverable on the internet by someone with, for example, very little time with which to do searching or signing up for new accounts for stuff or whatever and who doesn't have or doesn't have access to whatever contact information you had given previously. If you can, set aside money for him for as soon as he turns 18. Worse isn't impossible, but under most scenarios, here, there will again come a point where he has the ability to contact you and the ability to leave, so if you can't make that happen faster, at least make sure you're ready to provide as much support as possible on short notice.
posted by Sequence at 2:07 PM on May 3, 2018
posted by Sequence at 2:07 PM on May 3, 2018
One thing you can also do is try making a complaint about the cops. I’m religious myself and I would still find it horribly inappropriate for cops to say they are “Christian men who understand what the family is going through”. Filing a complaint may force them to act on the original issue and at least get independent confirmation your nephew is okay.
posted by corb at 2:17 PM on May 3, 2018
posted by corb at 2:17 PM on May 3, 2018
A family lawyer can help you file complaints with CPS and the police department. Any attempt to advocate for your nephew is best done through an attorney as the bureaucracies in question will take contact with a good attorney in their jurisdiction much more seriously than a complaint coming from an out-of-state relative.
posted by jbenben at 2:28 PM on May 3, 2018
posted by jbenben at 2:28 PM on May 3, 2018
I would definitely call the school and find out as much as you can. Be very clear that you are family and that there is child abuse going on at home and you worry about his safety. Ask them if any faculty or students know where he is currently.
Call the police and ask to speak to the desk sergeant and report the officers involved. What they did (ignoring child abuse because of 'christianity' and homophobia) is ILLEGAL.
Definitely call CPS.
You might also try...calling every 'conversion therapy' center in the state and try to speak to him. I would pretend you are his mother.
posted by sexyrobot at 2:29 PM on May 3, 2018
Call the police and ask to speak to the desk sergeant and report the officers involved. What they did (ignoring child abuse because of 'christianity' and homophobia) is ILLEGAL.
Definitely call CPS.
You might also try...calling every 'conversion therapy' center in the state and try to speak to him. I would pretend you are his mother.
posted by sexyrobot at 2:29 PM on May 3, 2018
Only you know how they would react to your showing up - from an outside perspective it seems like it would signal clearly to them that you are committed to protecting your nephew and wont be letting them continue to abuse him without objection.
Respectfully, for people in this mindset, this would merely be further villain activities to reinforce their narrative of being victims imperiled by Satan's works. They regard their kids as quasi-property and do not regard any state interference in that relationship as legitimate. So "letting" doesn't come into it--they don't recognize any moral right on the part of OP to interfere and they certainly won't believe he has any power to do so. (May be right about the latter.) They're not going to be scared by his presence into acting any better, like more thoughtful, self-aware people might be.
The cops may or may not have said what OP was told they said, btw. If the parents were the source of those statements, they might well be lying.
posted by praemunire at 2:37 PM on May 3, 2018
Respectfully, for people in this mindset, this would merely be further villain activities to reinforce their narrative of being victims imperiled by Satan's works. They regard their kids as quasi-property and do not regard any state interference in that relationship as legitimate. So "letting" doesn't come into it--they don't recognize any moral right on the part of OP to interfere and they certainly won't believe he has any power to do so. (May be right about the latter.) They're not going to be scared by his presence into acting any better, like more thoughtful, self-aware people might be.
The cops may or may not have said what OP was told they said, btw. If the parents were the source of those statements, they might well be lying.
posted by praemunire at 2:37 PM on May 3, 2018
You haven't mentioned social media. Do some digging and try to find his friends, reach out to them and see if they can somehow pass along a message that you're trying to help. Maybe you'll luck out that way.
As far as the school is concerned, if you're not a guardian on record, they won't tell you anything. However, you can contact the principal and the superintendent to fill them in. They will be concerned and probably look into any situation where parents suddenly pull their kid.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 2:48 PM on May 3, 2018
As far as the school is concerned, if you're not a guardian on record, they won't tell you anything. However, you can contact the principal and the superintendent to fill them in. They will be concerned and probably look into any situation where parents suddenly pull their kid.
posted by yes I said yes I will Yes at 2:48 PM on May 3, 2018
Does he have a Facebook account? Can you contact his friends through that? One of them might be able to get a phone to him.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 3:14 PM on May 3, 2018
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 3:14 PM on May 3, 2018
This is concerning and I'm sorry he (and you) are dealing with this.
A few ideas:
Call his school. They may have someone heading up an LGBT safe space-type of thing who will have more specific resources, or even a contact with someone at CPS who is not likely to take the view of the police who "checked in" earlier.
If he's in clubs or on a sports team or anything, find the number of the person running that. Call extra teachers (drama club may be a good start) and pretend you're not sure if he's in the club and tell them what's going on.
Find his friends on Facebook or other social media who support him. Tell them. Ask them to ask their parents for advice/help.
Find out who in the area could drive him to the airport and ask if they can be on-call to do that. Find out what a cab company would charge and how much a plane ticket would cost.
Go back into as many communications you’ve had with him as you can and start compiling them all in one place, clearly dated.
CPS-specific thoughts:
I used to be a CPS worker in an area with pockets of deep liberalism and deep conservatism. A call to CPS can go many ways depending on who receives the case - there are some really great caseworkers and some very bad ones. In my office I quickly became the person who was given cases involving LGBT kids and their potentially-neglectful parents. Your local CPS may have someone similar, but this will almost certainly not be anything other than an informal arrangement within the office. If you can get in touch with someone at CPS who is understanding - ideally a supervisor - you may have a better chance of the case going to this "LGBT kid-specialist" person, if they exist.
Calls are taken by the state and offices are located by county, with (I think) a few exceptions for large metropolitan areas. You may be able to call the county office directly and find the right person by asking some questions about LGBT resources available in the area, and strategically reveal information from there. Bear in mind you will be talking to a mandated reporter during this conversation.
The overarching thing I would say is that the most important thing is to make sure as many people who support and love your nephew and who may know where he is (and be able to get him out of there if needed) know about this as possible. Abuse doesn't happen in the open with everyone watching - it happens in secret. Isolation is a very bad sign. Tell everyone.
posted by Urban Winter at 3:21 PM on May 3, 2018
A few ideas:
Call his school. They may have someone heading up an LGBT safe space-type of thing who will have more specific resources, or even a contact with someone at CPS who is not likely to take the view of the police who "checked in" earlier.
If he's in clubs or on a sports team or anything, find the number of the person running that. Call extra teachers (drama club may be a good start) and pretend you're not sure if he's in the club and tell them what's going on.
Find his friends on Facebook or other social media who support him. Tell them. Ask them to ask their parents for advice/help.
Find out who in the area could drive him to the airport and ask if they can be on-call to do that. Find out what a cab company would charge and how much a plane ticket would cost.
Go back into as many communications you’ve had with him as you can and start compiling them all in one place, clearly dated.
CPS-specific thoughts:
I used to be a CPS worker in an area with pockets of deep liberalism and deep conservatism. A call to CPS can go many ways depending on who receives the case - there are some really great caseworkers and some very bad ones. In my office I quickly became the person who was given cases involving LGBT kids and their potentially-neglectful parents. Your local CPS may have someone similar, but this will almost certainly not be anything other than an informal arrangement within the office. If you can get in touch with someone at CPS who is understanding - ideally a supervisor - you may have a better chance of the case going to this "LGBT kid-specialist" person, if they exist.
Calls are taken by the state and offices are located by county, with (I think) a few exceptions for large metropolitan areas. You may be able to call the county office directly and find the right person by asking some questions about LGBT resources available in the area, and strategically reveal information from there. Bear in mind you will be talking to a mandated reporter during this conversation.
The overarching thing I would say is that the most important thing is to make sure as many people who support and love your nephew and who may know where he is (and be able to get him out of there if needed) know about this as possible. Abuse doesn't happen in the open with everyone watching - it happens in secret. Isolation is a very bad sign. Tell everyone.
posted by Urban Winter at 3:21 PM on May 3, 2018
Yes to calling his school; they won't be able to give you information, but it's a good idea to give them a heads up. If you know of any teachers he was particularly close to, they could be resources and they can also call CPS. If he was suddenly pulled from school and they are familiar with his situation, they're probably already concerned. (If someone called me about a situation like this with one of my students, I would start doing everything in my power in two seconds flat.)
Ditto finding friends/parents of friends on social media. Like others have said, if you go the route of a GoFundMe or need other assistance, I'd be glad to help out.
posted by goodbyewaffles at 4:32 PM on May 3, 2018
Ditto finding friends/parents of friends on social media. Like others have said, if you go the route of a GoFundMe or need other assistance, I'd be glad to help out.
posted by goodbyewaffles at 4:32 PM on May 3, 2018
A family lawyer can help you file complaints with CPS and the police department. Any attempt to advocate for your nephew is best done through an attorney as the bureaucracies in question will take contact with a good attorney in their jurisdiction much more seriously than a complaint coming from an out-of-state relative.
I work for APS, not CPS, but I'm going to say that this is not the case and may waste some of your/your nephew's time. I'm having a very hard time imagining an intake worker deprioritizing a report because it comes from a relative rather than an attorney. Again, APS not CPS, but most of my calls come from relatives and I have literally never had one from an attorney. Attorneys will probably be involved at some point, but dealing with protective service agencies does not require one.
posted by Smearcase at 4:45 PM on May 3, 2018
I work for APS, not CPS, but I'm going to say that this is not the case and may waste some of your/your nephew's time. I'm having a very hard time imagining an intake worker deprioritizing a report because it comes from a relative rather than an attorney. Again, APS not CPS, but most of my calls come from relatives and I have literally never had one from an attorney. Attorneys will probably be involved at some point, but dealing with protective service agencies does not require one.
posted by Smearcase at 4:45 PM on May 3, 2018
My criteria for calling CPS is, "would I be willing to take this child from their home at gunpoint, and throw them into an abusive hellpit of a group foster home?"
Most CPS agents start their careers with a strong interest in helping abused children. A few are biased, often by Christianity, from the start, but most just want to help kids. However, they're overbooked, under-funded, and operate without oversight, and they deal with some of humanity's worst abusers. It's a recipe for cynicism and god complexes.
You'd have to decide if worst-case is "CPS gets called out, decides nothing is wrong, and kid faces harsher punishment from parents," or "CPS yanks kid out of home and throws them into one that is actively, viciously abusive." Neither of those is incredibly likely--but they're also not "nah, that couldn't happen" options.
If you do decide to call them, mention these details:
* Pulled him out of school
* Father punched him in the face
* Isolating him from friends and family
Most of Ohio hasn't made conversion therapy illegal; if he's in an area that has, mention that as a possibility.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 5:37 PM on May 3, 2018
Most CPS agents start their careers with a strong interest in helping abused children. A few are biased, often by Christianity, from the start, but most just want to help kids. However, they're overbooked, under-funded, and operate without oversight, and they deal with some of humanity's worst abusers. It's a recipe for cynicism and god complexes.
You'd have to decide if worst-case is "CPS gets called out, decides nothing is wrong, and kid faces harsher punishment from parents," or "CPS yanks kid out of home and throws them into one that is actively, viciously abusive." Neither of those is incredibly likely--but they're also not "nah, that couldn't happen" options.
If you do decide to call them, mention these details:
* Pulled him out of school
* Father punched him in the face
* Isolating him from friends and family
Most of Ohio hasn't made conversion therapy illegal; if he's in an area that has, mention that as a possibility.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 5:37 PM on May 3, 2018
I don't have anything more to add to the other answers, but as a gay trans guy I'm glad you're taking this seriously. You could be saving his life - not just from his parents, but by his own hand. Absolutely try to contact his friends and sympathetic teachers.
You might contact the Trevor Project too. 1-866-488-7386
posted by AFABulous at 7:11 PM on May 3, 2018
You might contact the Trevor Project too. 1-866-488-7386
posted by AFABulous at 7:11 PM on May 3, 2018
Thank you again. I'm contemplating what to do next and the collective wisdom and compassion offered here is of such am incredible value.
He has no social media, no phone. I'm trying to locate a good friend of his to find teachers that would step forward.
I would certainly like for him to come live with me and would readily take him on. Mine is a queer and educated household in a large city and I feel like he would love living with us and his cousins (whom he has never met.) From the experience of friends and families I know that things like that rarely happen.
It is just heartbreaking that someone can't accept that their kid is gay and feels like they need to break them of that. I simply cannot imagine it. My kid is gay and thinking through the hypothetical of trying to abuse her straight--I just can't even.
posted by n9 at 6:55 AM on May 4, 2018
He has no social media, no phone. I'm trying to locate a good friend of his to find teachers that would step forward.
I would certainly like for him to come live with me and would readily take him on. Mine is a queer and educated household in a large city and I feel like he would love living with us and his cousins (whom he has never met.) From the experience of friends and families I know that things like that rarely happen.
It is just heartbreaking that someone can't accept that their kid is gay and feels like they need to break them of that. I simply cannot imagine it. My kid is gay and thinking through the hypothetical of trying to abuse her straight--I just can't even.
posted by n9 at 6:55 AM on May 4, 2018
You've gotten a lot of useful practical advice here. I thought I'd speak to this: It is just heartbreaking that someone can't accept that their kid is gay and feels like they need to break them of that. I simply cannot imagine it.
Of course I don't know your nephew's parents. But I have seen (and, as a child, was surrounded by/taught, although not in my family directly) a lot of versions of this and it might help to hear about them. All of my thoughts on the following are through my own lens of growing up in conservative environments, having some of these conversations, and listening to many more. It may or not apply to your actual situation.
You have to remember that, to these people, Hell is a real place. Not a metaphor for turning away from the light of God's love or whatever, but a true place where actual burning and suffering for literal eternity happens. People who break the rules which they believe were immovably set for us by an omnipotent and omnipresent God are punished there. In certain social and cultural environments, for whatever reason, being gay is pretty much the worst possible thing you can be, and it must be turned away from at all costs.
They would probably call it "tough love" or say that to spare the rod is to spoil the child, and that he may hate them for it but it's their job as his parents to do what's best for him and that includes doing everything they can to save his immortal soul.
I'm not saying I support or agree with any of this. But I think that it may help, as you plan your next steps, to attempt to understand their (possible) mindset. Not to follow it or excuse it, but to think about how they would react. They probably truly believe they are acting out of love. A lot of people who think this way, even if you were to somehow logically or otherwise convince them it didn't make sense, how could hate be loving, would say something along the lines of "Look, I don't have to like it, but I didn't make the rules. God did, and we have to follow them." It's not about logic (and I don't mean that in a pejorative way; I think a lot of what most of us do is not about logic and that's not necessarily wrong), it's about emotions, social and cultural and personal identity, and their community teachings, and what the people they respect say, and a lot of other factors.
I feel like I must stress again that I'm not defending child abuse or homophobic mindsets or behavior. I hope this can help you imagine the mindset and, hopefully, be able to formulate a more effective plan of action. Most people don't think of themselves as villains, and have reasons for the things they do which make sense to them. If you want to communicate with them, or even if you don't and are trying to figure out what to do, it may be helpful to you to think about how they would think.
If they do truly love him and can somehow be convinced...but I don't know, there's a lot going on there.
posted by spelunkingplato at 5:16 AM on May 5, 2018
Of course I don't know your nephew's parents. But I have seen (and, as a child, was surrounded by/taught, although not in my family directly) a lot of versions of this and it might help to hear about them. All of my thoughts on the following are through my own lens of growing up in conservative environments, having some of these conversations, and listening to many more. It may or not apply to your actual situation.
You have to remember that, to these people, Hell is a real place. Not a metaphor for turning away from the light of God's love or whatever, but a true place where actual burning and suffering for literal eternity happens. People who break the rules which they believe were immovably set for us by an omnipotent and omnipresent God are punished there. In certain social and cultural environments, for whatever reason, being gay is pretty much the worst possible thing you can be, and it must be turned away from at all costs.
They would probably call it "tough love" or say that to spare the rod is to spoil the child, and that he may hate them for it but it's their job as his parents to do what's best for him and that includes doing everything they can to save his immortal soul.
I'm not saying I support or agree with any of this. But I think that it may help, as you plan your next steps, to attempt to understand their (possible) mindset. Not to follow it or excuse it, but to think about how they would react. They probably truly believe they are acting out of love. A lot of people who think this way, even if you were to somehow logically or otherwise convince them it didn't make sense, how could hate be loving, would say something along the lines of "Look, I don't have to like it, but I didn't make the rules. God did, and we have to follow them." It's not about logic (and I don't mean that in a pejorative way; I think a lot of what most of us do is not about logic and that's not necessarily wrong), it's about emotions, social and cultural and personal identity, and their community teachings, and what the people they respect say, and a lot of other factors.
I feel like I must stress again that I'm not defending child abuse or homophobic mindsets or behavior. I hope this can help you imagine the mindset and, hopefully, be able to formulate a more effective plan of action. Most people don't think of themselves as villains, and have reasons for the things they do which make sense to them. If you want to communicate with them, or even if you don't and are trying to figure out what to do, it may be helpful to you to think about how they would think.
If they do truly love him and can somehow be convinced...but I don't know, there's a lot going on there.
posted by spelunkingplato at 5:16 AM on May 5, 2018
Please keep us updated, especially as to whether we can help, n9.
posted by librarina at 1:11 AM on May 6, 2018
posted by librarina at 1:11 AM on May 6, 2018
Oh god, another gay teen killed themselves JUST THIS WEEK. Please keep us posted and please let us know if there is any way to help. Thank you for being there for him.
posted by cyndigo at 3:43 PM on May 7, 2018
posted by cyndigo at 3:43 PM on May 7, 2018
Update:
My nephew got in touch. He's good. He was out of school for two weeks while he was in a pray-the-gay-away program... which seems to have left him unscarred. He is ready and able to keep a low profile for a couple more years.
What happened was that he good friend, also gay and very christian killed himself. My nephew was/is very, very upset about this and it triggered all the things that it could in him and he lost it. His parents couldn't get a straight story out of him as to why he was so upset so they tossed his room and found a journal, which they read, because... well.
He in turn broke into his father's phone and saw us trying to very hard to get through to him, which made him feel very supported.
After two weeks his folks let him go back to school if he promised to be straight now. He said it was a deal, went back to school and managed to maintain straight As for the year.
He called us from a phone at school to let us know all of this and to say that he's OK for now. What a relief.
Thank you all very much for the advise. It was beyond useful.
posted by n9 at 1:07 AM on June 10, 2018
My nephew got in touch. He's good. He was out of school for two weeks while he was in a pray-the-gay-away program... which seems to have left him unscarred. He is ready and able to keep a low profile for a couple more years.
What happened was that he good friend, also gay and very christian killed himself. My nephew was/is very, very upset about this and it triggered all the things that it could in him and he lost it. His parents couldn't get a straight story out of him as to why he was so upset so they tossed his room and found a journal, which they read, because... well.
He in turn broke into his father's phone and saw us trying to very hard to get through to him, which made him feel very supported.
After two weeks his folks let him go back to school if he promised to be straight now. He said it was a deal, went back to school and managed to maintain straight As for the year.
He called us from a phone at school to let us know all of this and to say that he's OK for now. What a relief.
Thank you all very much for the advise. It was beyond useful.
posted by n9 at 1:07 AM on June 10, 2018
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by n9 at 12:59 PM on May 3, 2018