I challenged bill from landlord, landlord is ignoring me
April 12, 2018 9:41 AM
I moved out of an apartment and into a new one a couple months ago. I was sent a move-out statement from my previous landlord company saying that not only are they keeping my $500 deposit, but I owe them more money. I responded explaining that I think they owe me money, and I have not heard back after many weeks. Not sure how to proceed.
I live in Portland, Oregon. Before I moved out of my old apartment, I did a pre-move out inspection with the head of the apartment’s maintenance staff. I asked him if there was anything I’d be charged for and he said no, the apartment looked fine. I asked if I’d be charged for leaving anything behind and he said no, they only charge for big stuff. I said I hadn’t cleaned the place yet and he said they do a deep cleaning so he would recommend I don’t even bother because they charge everyone for cleaning anyway. So I moved out and I didn’t clean the apartment.
I got a bill charging me for re-painting the walls, prorated by the amount of time I was living there. I did no damage to the walls and, besides, the prorating suggests it was about wear and tear, not damage. Well, Oregon law clearly states that landlords can’t charge tenants for wear and tear. The lease didn’t specify I’d have to pay for repainting either - it did specify, for instance, I’d have to have to pay a carpet cleaning fee. So I challenged that painting fee.
Then, they charged me for trash removal. I think this is bogus because the guy told me not to clean the apartment and that I wouldn’t be charged if I left small stuff behind. They did charge me for cleaning, which is fine, but a trash removal fee on top of it seems excessive. Furthermore, I’m pretty sure I must’ve left a couple pots and pans behind accidentally because I can’t find them, but Oregon law states that if property if left behind, my landlord was supposed to notify me and let me come get it, not throw it out, so I am challenging that trash removal fee as well.
So I responded to the email statement they sent me citing the relevant statutes in Oregon law. (They sent me paper statements in the mail too, which I think they had to do by law, but I just responded to their emailed one.) It’s been more than a month and they’ve ignored me. I re-sent my email response and nothing. I’ve tried to call and the person who "handles Oregon" is always either out to lunch or the call goes to her voicemail.
What should I do? On one hand, I know small claims court is an option, but it costs almost $100 just to file and do everything, which cuts into much of what I was asking for back. I don’t know if that’s worth my time or money. My bigger concern is that they are just ignoring my messages and then are going to send this issue to collections, claiming I haven’t paid them money owed, and it’s going to create problems.
I live in Portland, Oregon. Before I moved out of my old apartment, I did a pre-move out inspection with the head of the apartment’s maintenance staff. I asked him if there was anything I’d be charged for and he said no, the apartment looked fine. I asked if I’d be charged for leaving anything behind and he said no, they only charge for big stuff. I said I hadn’t cleaned the place yet and he said they do a deep cleaning so he would recommend I don’t even bother because they charge everyone for cleaning anyway. So I moved out and I didn’t clean the apartment.
I got a bill charging me for re-painting the walls, prorated by the amount of time I was living there. I did no damage to the walls and, besides, the prorating suggests it was about wear and tear, not damage. Well, Oregon law clearly states that landlords can’t charge tenants for wear and tear. The lease didn’t specify I’d have to pay for repainting either - it did specify, for instance, I’d have to have to pay a carpet cleaning fee. So I challenged that painting fee.
Then, they charged me for trash removal. I think this is bogus because the guy told me not to clean the apartment and that I wouldn’t be charged if I left small stuff behind. They did charge me for cleaning, which is fine, but a trash removal fee on top of it seems excessive. Furthermore, I’m pretty sure I must’ve left a couple pots and pans behind accidentally because I can’t find them, but Oregon law states that if property if left behind, my landlord was supposed to notify me and let me come get it, not throw it out, so I am challenging that trash removal fee as well.
So I responded to the email statement they sent me citing the relevant statutes in Oregon law. (They sent me paper statements in the mail too, which I think they had to do by law, but I just responded to their emailed one.) It’s been more than a month and they’ve ignored me. I re-sent my email response and nothing. I’ve tried to call and the person who "handles Oregon" is always either out to lunch or the call goes to her voicemail.
What should I do? On one hand, I know small claims court is an option, but it costs almost $100 just to file and do everything, which cuts into much of what I was asking for back. I don’t know if that’s worth my time or money. My bigger concern is that they are just ignoring my messages and then are going to send this issue to collections, claiming I haven’t paid them money owed, and it’s going to create problems.
I had almost this exact thing happen to me in another state.
Got sent completely bogus large bill months after a move out and walk through with photos to back up our story that the apartment was ship-shape when we moved out.
The landlord was like, pay up within a week or I’m sending it to collections.
The best luck we had was following the very well laid out guidance on the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB) website. You should see if your city or state has a consumer affairs office and get in touch with them.
If a local office isn’t an optiont, use the CFPB guidance and file a complaint with them. Our shady landlord got way more cooperative after CFPB contacted them about the situation.
posted by forkisbetter at 9:52 AM on April 12, 2018
Got sent completely bogus large bill months after a move out and walk through with photos to back up our story that the apartment was ship-shape when we moved out.
The landlord was like, pay up within a week or I’m sending it to collections.
The best luck we had was following the very well laid out guidance on the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB) website. You should see if your city or state has a consumer affairs office and get in touch with them.
If a local office isn’t an optiont, use the CFPB guidance and file a complaint with them. Our shady landlord got way more cooperative after CFPB contacted them about the situation.
posted by forkisbetter at 9:52 AM on April 12, 2018
You may want to send the same notice by mail, and definitely keep a printout/pdf of the emails you sent.
Oregon is a one-party consent state; consider calling the office, asking if they got your emails (not asking if they agree to them) and recording the conversation.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 9:57 AM on April 12, 2018
Oregon is a one-party consent state; consider calling the office, asking if they got your emails (not asking if they agree to them) and recording the conversation.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 9:57 AM on April 12, 2018
Good news: this is a classic landlord mistake that costs them double your deposit by law.
In Oregon, they have to send you your deposit, or the remainder (if any) along with an itemized statement of what was deducted within 31 days. If they don't (and yours didn't), they don't get any of your deposit and you should sue them for double that amount, which is the legal limit there.
Small claims looks to be $50 + $36, but hopefully that's easier to justify against the extra damages.
They may offer to settle, and I see two paths here: 1) not settling, and getting a judgement from the court against them is a public record that future tenants can use as a warning; and 2) if money is an issue, do not settle for less than the double your deposit the law allows, so ask for 3-5x. Heck, start at 10x. This is to keep their names out of the public record, so you can be mercenary about it. The worst that can happen is that you'll go to court and get your 2x.
posted by rhizome at 9:58 AM on April 12, 2018
In Oregon, they have to send you your deposit, or the remainder (if any) along with an itemized statement of what was deducted within 31 days. If they don't (and yours didn't), they don't get any of your deposit and you should sue them for double that amount, which is the legal limit there.
Small claims looks to be $50 + $36, but hopefully that's easier to justify against the extra damages.
They may offer to settle, and I see two paths here: 1) not settling, and getting a judgement from the court against them is a public record that future tenants can use as a warning; and 2) if money is an issue, do not settle for less than the double your deposit the law allows, so ask for 3-5x. Heck, start at 10x. This is to keep their names out of the public record, so you can be mercenary about it. The worst that can happen is that you'll go to court and get your 2x.
posted by rhizome at 9:58 AM on April 12, 2018
I am willing to sort of let this go and just leave this company bad reviews online and/or complaints with the BBB. I was only asking for about $200 back from my deposit (the rest got eaten up by a cleaning fee, carpet cleaning fee and leftover utilities) and, while I realize I could ask for double that amount they owe me back because they didn't pay me within 31 days, I'm still not sure the time, trouble and cost of small claims is worth it.
So, I'd be willing to just say screw it and call it a loss, but the part I am most concerned about is the possibility of them chasing the amount they claim I owe them, which is only about $100 but I refuse to pay because it's bullshit. I just don't want this to end up in collections or screwing my credit. Is there a middle ground to dealing with this that doesn't involve me suing them? Again, I tried to call them to discuss it and I can't get hold of the person I'm supposed to talk to.
(P.S. Now that Trump is president and he put someone in charge of the CFPB who wanted the CFPB shut down, it seems like the website doesn't even work for me. I also think they've sort of stopped investigating complaints because helping average Americans is the last thing this administration wants...)
posted by peachpie at 10:21 AM on April 12, 2018
So, I'd be willing to just say screw it and call it a loss, but the part I am most concerned about is the possibility of them chasing the amount they claim I owe them, which is only about $100 but I refuse to pay because it's bullshit. I just don't want this to end up in collections or screwing my credit. Is there a middle ground to dealing with this that doesn't involve me suing them? Again, I tried to call them to discuss it and I can't get hold of the person I'm supposed to talk to.
(P.S. Now that Trump is president and he put someone in charge of the CFPB who wanted the CFPB shut down, it seems like the website doesn't even work for me. I also think they've sort of stopped investigating complaints because helping average Americans is the last thing this administration wants...)
posted by peachpie at 10:21 AM on April 12, 2018
I suspect that the easiest way to avoid it going to collections is taking them to small claims court to get (double) your money back.
posted by plonkee at 10:39 AM on April 12, 2018
posted by plonkee at 10:39 AM on April 12, 2018
They are going to bully you for all the money they can. They may not even had the right to charge you for painting and cleaning! Cleaning is generally subject to normal wear and tear (not chargeable; it's gonna be done no matter what), and repainting? The things you mention depend on how long you were there, and each one can be fought in court.
I realize it seems like a lot to go through, but it really isn't. An hour or two to fill out the small claims form, wait in line, pay your $50 and set up process service, then you sit back and wait for your court date. Once in court, you lay out your story and the judge will likely focus on them. Did they satisfy their responsibilities under the law? No? Then they don't get anything from you except time to write a check. To you. These things tend to be simple in practice: there's a hard deadline with requirements. The ball is completely in the landlord's court, you're pretty much just along for the payday and I'd say it's likely you won't have to justify hardly anything out loud.
posted by rhizome at 10:51 AM on April 12, 2018
I realize it seems like a lot to go through, but it really isn't. An hour or two to fill out the small claims form, wait in line, pay your $50 and set up process service, then you sit back and wait for your court date. Once in court, you lay out your story and the judge will likely focus on them. Did they satisfy their responsibilities under the law? No? Then they don't get anything from you except time to write a check. To you. These things tend to be simple in practice: there's a hard deadline with requirements. The ball is completely in the landlord's court, you're pretty much just along for the payday and I'd say it's likely you won't have to justify hardly anything out loud.
posted by rhizome at 10:51 AM on April 12, 2018
Document everything and take them to small claims. I don't know about Oregon, but every small claims case I've won, the judgement also included my filing charges and interest on the monies owed. Also, the only contract you have with them is the written (I assume) lease, so anything anyone told you will not change that. As far as painting, unless you were only in there for a short period and trashed the walls, no court will ever make you pay for painting (or even carpet cleaning, if you were there for longer).
posted by Pig Tail Orchestra at 10:51 AM on April 12, 2018
posted by Pig Tail Orchestra at 10:51 AM on April 12, 2018
Look through the resources on CAT's website here, and send the landlord a letter that specifically states what you want/expect them to do, and a date by which you expect them to do it. So, if you want them to send you an updated explanation of charges that shows you owe $0, or send an updated explanation with the remainder of your deposit (that you estimate to be $x), say so, and give them a clear deadline (1-2 weeks is probably reasonable) by which you expect them to a) comply b) tell you that they disagree or c) you will assume that they agree with your assessment-- so if they don't respond you can reasonably claim that non-response=agreement.
Send the letter with a Certificate of Mailing (which proves that you did mail the letter, but does not require that they accept the letter or return a certification ).
However, taking maintenance staff's "word" that cleaning wasn't necessary and they'd "only charge for big things" was, IMO, a mistake. It doesn't matter what they tell you-- it matters what's in your lease, and your lease probably says that you agree to leave the unit in as good a condition as you found it (less reasonable wear and tear). If you left stuff that they had to throw out, they can charge you for it, and charging high fees for stuff like that is how landlords keep deposits. If you want a deposit refund, don't do things that make it easy for the landlord to charge you.
posted by Kpele at 11:07 AM on April 12, 2018
Send the letter with a Certificate of Mailing (which proves that you did mail the letter, but does not require that they accept the letter or return a certification ).
However, taking maintenance staff's "word" that cleaning wasn't necessary and they'd "only charge for big things" was, IMO, a mistake. It doesn't matter what they tell you-- it matters what's in your lease, and your lease probably says that you agree to leave the unit in as good a condition as you found it (less reasonable wear and tear). If you left stuff that they had to throw out, they can charge you for it, and charging high fees for stuff like that is how landlords keep deposits. If you want a deposit refund, don't do things that make it easy for the landlord to charge you.
posted by Kpele at 11:07 AM on April 12, 2018
Though their future is uncertain, CFPB hasn't had a mass firing or anything yet :)
Their website is still 100% up and their complaint forms are as well.
posted by forkisbetter at 12:32 PM on April 12, 2018
Their website is still 100% up and their complaint forms are as well.
posted by forkisbetter at 12:32 PM on April 12, 2018
I'm nervous about small claims because I stupidly forgot to take photos of every wall, but there was 100% no damage to any walls. I don't think there was even so much as a scuff mark because I didn't have much furniture. I don't think they'd have any photos to prove any issues with the walls, but I don't have photos to prove every wall was fine. Again, either way, they charged a prorated fee for the paint based on how long I lived there, so it has to be a wear-and-tear fee anyway, right? In retrospect, though, I was a dummy for trusting the conversation during the pre-move out inspection/not asking for it in writing, and for not taking photos of everything. At the very worst, I expected to lose my deposit - I was downright shocked they asked me to pay even more money.
What are my chances of winning in small claims court if I didn't really document the condition I left the apartment in? I've been relying on the letter of the law and the charges in the move out statement because I feel those are pretty black-and-white, but it's still sort of just my word against theirs. I don't really have any evidence other than the move-out statement/bill and Oregon law.
posted by peachpie at 12:42 PM on April 12, 2018
What are my chances of winning in small claims court if I didn't really document the condition I left the apartment in? I've been relying on the letter of the law and the charges in the move out statement because I feel those are pretty black-and-white, but it's still sort of just my word against theirs. I don't really have any evidence other than the move-out statement/bill and Oregon law.
posted by peachpie at 12:42 PM on April 12, 2018
Oh, and to just add, the other evidence I have is my lease. It says nothing about painting fees or trash removal/abandoned property. So it's my lease, the move-out statement and Oregon law. My word, their word and those three documents.
posted by peachpie at 12:49 PM on April 12, 2018
posted by peachpie at 12:49 PM on April 12, 2018
For future reference, NEVER take their word in a verbal conversation, get it in writing. And now you know to take pics upon move-in and move-out, for everything. (Ask me how I know.) Good luck!
posted by 2soxy4mypuppet at 1:28 PM on April 12, 2018
posted by 2soxy4mypuppet at 1:28 PM on April 12, 2018
Hi it sounds like you really wish this would just go away but it's not going to. Since it isn't going to go away, you may as well take some action with regard to it that could leave you coming out rather far ahead.
If you get back $1000 and it takes a week solid of your time that is still $25 an hour, a pretty good deal!
posted by seanmpuckett at 1:29 PM on April 12, 2018
If you get back $1000 and it takes a week solid of your time that is still $25 an hour, a pretty good deal!
posted by seanmpuckett at 1:29 PM on April 12, 2018
The thing is, if you go to small claims they're going to ask you if a) you left the unit clean-- which you say you did not, and b) if you left anything in the unit that the landlord would need to dispose of-- which you say you did. Your complaint seems to be more along the lines of "they charged me more than I think they should have done". This, combined with the fact that you acknowledge that you did not do some of the things you were required to do at move-out to leave the unit in (at least) as good condition as it was when you moved in, is not likely to benefit you.
You can ask for receipts or documentation regarding the deductions subtracted from your deposit. You should do that in the letter you send. If the landlord cannot provide documentation of the charges, you can ask to have those charges removed. There is a step-by-step list of actions you can take regarding move-out charges on this page. You should do those things (including gathering evidence) before you pursue a small claims case-- otherwise, the judge is going to ask you why you did not try to resolve the issue with your landlord before going to court. If you don't wish to take the actions listed on CAT's website, you can pay the amount your landlord says you owe, or take the chance that the landlord will send the bill to collections.
posted by Kpele at 2:05 PM on April 12, 2018
You can ask for receipts or documentation regarding the deductions subtracted from your deposit. You should do that in the letter you send. If the landlord cannot provide documentation of the charges, you can ask to have those charges removed. There is a step-by-step list of actions you can take regarding move-out charges on this page. You should do those things (including gathering evidence) before you pursue a small claims case-- otherwise, the judge is going to ask you why you did not try to resolve the issue with your landlord before going to court. If you don't wish to take the actions listed on CAT's website, you can pay the amount your landlord says you owe, or take the chance that the landlord will send the bill to collections.
posted by Kpele at 2:05 PM on April 12, 2018
The thing is, if you go to small claims they're going to ask you if
That's not the way it worked for me in California, which has similar law. The first and possibly only question is: Did the landlord send a check with the remaining deposit along with an itemized list of deductions, or a bill for overage, within 31 days? If the answer is no, OP wins double their deposit (more or less, possibly) and court fees.
I had some notes for the condition of the place, but that was just in case they made shit up. I did not even come close to having to have pictures or anything like that. It's good to do, but probably (probably) not required.
I do have a question about what they did give OP, because there seems to be some? accounting for what they were taking money for. But at the end of the day, if they didn't dot their t's and cross their i's within 31 days they forfeit their right to any of the deposit. Period. And double.
posted by rhizome at 2:59 PM on April 12, 2018
That's not the way it worked for me in California, which has similar law. The first and possibly only question is: Did the landlord send a check with the remaining deposit along with an itemized list of deductions, or a bill for overage, within 31 days? If the answer is no, OP wins double their deposit (more or less, possibly) and court fees.
I had some notes for the condition of the place, but that was just in case they made shit up. I did not even come close to having to have pictures or anything like that. It's good to do, but probably (probably) not required.
I do have a question about what they did give OP, because there seems to be some? accounting for what they were taking money for. But at the end of the day, if they didn't dot their t's and cross their i's within 31 days they forfeit their right to any of the deposit. Period. And double.
posted by rhizome at 2:59 PM on April 12, 2018
The OP has stated that they got "a bill" that sounds like it was itemized-- listing a trash removal fee, cleaning fee, etc. The OP does not say when they received that bill relative to moving out. If the OP got the bill (and it is indeed an itemized list of deductions and amount of overage) within 31 days of move-out, then this is not an open-and-shut "the landlord forfeits their right to the deposit" case.
The OP says they contacted the landlord to dispute charges and has not heard back. The process for disputing whether itemized charges and deductions are reasonable is different than asserting that the landlord did not refund the deposit/provide itemized deductions in a timely manner.
posted by Kpele at 3:33 PM on April 12, 2018
The OP says they contacted the landlord to dispute charges and has not heard back. The process for disputing whether itemized charges and deductions are reasonable is different than asserting that the landlord did not refund the deposit/provide itemized deductions in a timely manner.
posted by Kpele at 3:33 PM on April 12, 2018
>The first and possibly only question is: Did the landlord send a check with the remaining deposit along with an itemized list of deductions, or a bill for overage, within 31 days? If the answer is no, OP wins double their deposit (more or less, possibly) and court fees.
The answer is not "no." As I have stated over and over, they sent the move-out statement with a bill and they did it within 31 days of me moving out. That was sent to me in lieu of a check for the remaining part of my deposit because they claimed I owed them money. I responded within 31 days too of me moving out too. Now it's been two months and they have not responded to my dispute of the charges.
posted by peachpie at 4:13 PM on April 12, 2018
The answer is not "no." As I have stated over and over, they sent the move-out statement with a bill and they did it within 31 days of me moving out. That was sent to me in lieu of a check for the remaining part of my deposit because they claimed I owed them money. I responded within 31 days too of me moving out too. Now it's been two months and they have not responded to my dispute of the charges.
posted by peachpie at 4:13 PM on April 12, 2018
Gotcha. I would still sue for them charging you for cleaning. You could make them justify every bit, and the judge would be much better at deciding how appropriate each one is.
But I tend to get het up about landlord hinkiness. It's very common for landlords to invent enough charges not to return any deposit. Anyway, I'll leave it at that.
posted by rhizome at 4:26 PM on April 12, 2018
But I tend to get het up about landlord hinkiness. It's very common for landlords to invent enough charges not to return any deposit. Anyway, I'll leave it at that.
posted by rhizome at 4:26 PM on April 12, 2018
Hey, PeachPie.
I lived in an apartment in Portland from Feb. 2016 until Aug. 2017. That's almost 18 months. I was forced to move into the apartment due to my wife leaving me, and my credit wasn't great, so they charged me a $700 deposit.
When I moved out I did a pretty good job cleaning. Nothing big was left in the apartment and I even swept the floors (all of them were tile). I knew they would have to actually clean the tile, so I expected to lose part of my deposit.
Like you, I received a letter saying that they were keeping my entire deposit and that I still owed them $130 on top of it. The largest portion - $500 - was for painting. As you have noted, and as I found with a quick search, painting is usually considered wear and tear. I know that we didn't put holes in the wall or anything and I was a single guy with no sense of decoration, so I only had two things hanging on the wall in the whole apartment.
When I received their itemized list, I sent them a physical letter telling them that not only would I not be paying them anything more, but they actually owed *me* for the bogus painting charge. I asked them to remit payment to my new apartment and gave them the address.
I still haven't heard back and it has been a couple of months. Like you, I am debating taking them to small claims court. Please let me know if you learn anything new.
posted by tacodave at 4:47 PM on April 12, 2018
I lived in an apartment in Portland from Feb. 2016 until Aug. 2017. That's almost 18 months. I was forced to move into the apartment due to my wife leaving me, and my credit wasn't great, so they charged me a $700 deposit.
When I moved out I did a pretty good job cleaning. Nothing big was left in the apartment and I even swept the floors (all of them were tile). I knew they would have to actually clean the tile, so I expected to lose part of my deposit.
Like you, I received a letter saying that they were keeping my entire deposit and that I still owed them $130 on top of it. The largest portion - $500 - was for painting. As you have noted, and as I found with a quick search, painting is usually considered wear and tear. I know that we didn't put holes in the wall or anything and I was a single guy with no sense of decoration, so I only had two things hanging on the wall in the whole apartment.
When I received their itemized list, I sent them a physical letter telling them that not only would I not be paying them anything more, but they actually owed *me* for the bogus painting charge. I asked them to remit payment to my new apartment and gave them the address.
I still haven't heard back and it has been a couple of months. Like you, I am debating taking them to small claims court. Please let me know if you learn anything new.
posted by tacodave at 4:47 PM on April 12, 2018
Am I reading it right that they have asked you to pay the extra $100, or was it just on the security deposit list as a sort of “backup” if you successfully challenged some of the fees? If it’s the latter, I think you can safely just ignore if you are willing to swallow the security deposit.
If they did bill you for more, that makes me mad. I’m not an Oregon lawyer or anything, and this isn’t legal advice. Definitely talk to a local tenant rights group. But, just as a reality check: I have never heard of the idea of a landlord charging over and above the security deposit. Think about it: if a landlord could just charge you with whatever when you leave on the threat of going to colletions, what the hell is the point of a security deposit?
Also, it looks like Oregon law says that a landlord can’t charge fees except for very specific things (like late fees on rent). Guess what? A fucking “trash removal fee” isn’t on there. According to that website, charging an illegal fee is also subject to double damages or $300, whichever is greater. That’s separate from your security deposit issue.
If I’m right about what’s happening and what the law seems to be, I am so angry on your behalf and behalf of all the people who have probably been scared and duped into paying a bullshit fee above their security deposit.
I understand not wanting to go to small claims court, but I really want your righteous indignation to win out here. Frankly, it sounds like this is a big landlord (“the person who handles Oregon”?) so they should know better. They probably do know better, which is why they just ghost rather than follow up on a threat of collecting this additional fee, and hope you’ll just let them get away with their illegitimate accounting to keep the whole security deposit because you are scared of the potential hit to your credit.
posted by alligatorpear at 12:51 PM on April 13, 2018
If they did bill you for more, that makes me mad. I’m not an Oregon lawyer or anything, and this isn’t legal advice. Definitely talk to a local tenant rights group. But, just as a reality check: I have never heard of the idea of a landlord charging over and above the security deposit. Think about it: if a landlord could just charge you with whatever when you leave on the threat of going to colletions, what the hell is the point of a security deposit?
Also, it looks like Oregon law says that a landlord can’t charge fees except for very specific things (like late fees on rent). Guess what? A fucking “trash removal fee” isn’t on there. According to that website, charging an illegal fee is also subject to double damages or $300, whichever is greater. That’s separate from your security deposit issue.
If I’m right about what’s happening and what the law seems to be, I am so angry on your behalf and behalf of all the people who have probably been scared and duped into paying a bullshit fee above their security deposit.
I understand not wanting to go to small claims court, but I really want your righteous indignation to win out here. Frankly, it sounds like this is a big landlord (“the person who handles Oregon”?) so they should know better. They probably do know better, which is why they just ghost rather than follow up on a threat of collecting this additional fee, and hope you’ll just let them get away with their illegitimate accounting to keep the whole security deposit because you are scared of the potential hit to your credit.
posted by alligatorpear at 12:51 PM on April 13, 2018
I have never heard of the idea of a landlord charging over and above the security deposit. Think about it: if a landlord could just charge you with whatever when you leave on the threat of going to colletions, what the hell is the point of a security deposit?
The security deposit is supposed to cover the expected or likely expenses. If you didn't just live in the apartment and apply normal wear and tear, but also painted over all the windows and removed a couple of internal walls so you could host parties, the landlord is going to demand a lot more than whatever you paid up front. Even without extreme weirdness, if you left the stove on overnight and caused a small fire, which left (1) a dead stove and (2) a soot-blackened wall, the costs are likely higher than the deposit.
However, there's a common scam where the landlord either demands payment for services they're supposed to cover (like repainting) or inflates the cost for activities like cleanup. Most renters don't know how to challenge these claims, and so they continue.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 11:34 AM on April 19, 2018
The security deposit is supposed to cover the expected or likely expenses. If you didn't just live in the apartment and apply normal wear and tear, but also painted over all the windows and removed a couple of internal walls so you could host parties, the landlord is going to demand a lot more than whatever you paid up front. Even without extreme weirdness, if you left the stove on overnight and caused a small fire, which left (1) a dead stove and (2) a soot-blackened wall, the costs are likely higher than the deposit.
However, there's a common scam where the landlord either demands payment for services they're supposed to cover (like repainting) or inflates the cost for activities like cleanup. Most renters don't know how to challenge these claims, and so they continue.
posted by ErisLordFreedom at 11:34 AM on April 19, 2018
Thanks for all the advice in this thread. I alluded to small claims court and a complaint with the Better Business Bureau (I didn't want to directly threaten and escalate too quickly), but what seemed to actually work was giving them a scathing 1-star review on Yelp. The day after I posted it, I immediately got an email from them. They claimed they didn't know I disputed any charges but they would look into it for me if I could update my review.
I just pushed to cancel the painting fees and not the trash removal because my main goal was not having to pay any more money and I wasn't sure if the law was on my side with the trash removal. I kind of want to warn other people about the bogus charges, but I mostly just wanted to not have to pay them any money and not deal with this shit any longer, so I think I will remove my negative review, especially because I did exaggerate a bit in it, to be fair. The bottom line is the review worked though, so I'm glad.
posted by peachpie at 2:08 PM on June 8, 2018
I just pushed to cancel the painting fees and not the trash removal because my main goal was not having to pay any more money and I wasn't sure if the law was on my side with the trash removal. I kind of want to warn other people about the bogus charges, but I mostly just wanted to not have to pay them any money and not deal with this shit any longer, so I think I will remove my negative review, especially because I did exaggerate a bit in it, to be fair. The bottom line is the review worked though, so I'm glad.
posted by peachpie at 2:08 PM on June 8, 2018
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posted by ourobouros at 9:48 AM on April 12, 2018