Time for a new micro four thirds camera. But which one?
April 11, 2018 7:51 AM
So a few years ago I bought the Sony NEX-6. I liked it. A lot. And it was my default even though it had a dust mote I could never get out of the sensor. Then someone stole it in the Johannesburg airport. So it's time for a new one. But WHICH one? I'm looking for small, for less than 600 bucks and ideally with GPS built in so that it tags WHERE the pictures have been taken. Is that possible?
GPS built in so that it tags WHERE the pictures have been taken
This isn't a common feature in a micro 4/3 body, and I've looked. Indeed I'm not sure that this exists in any of the Olympus or Panasonic bodies currently. We use rugged P&S cameras for this purpose (and they do come under your budget).
In addition, ideally you want not just a GPS, but also an electronic compass so that you know not only where you were, but in which direction the picture was taken. Also be aware that GPS lock-up can take quite a while and that certain cameras do do it better than others. Most consumer phones are actually pretty good at this now as they use Adaptive GPS with the cell towers to help locate the phone. GPS (satellite only) units can't do this, of course.
There are add-ons compatible with most cameras that will do this. Also most hand-held GPS units (e.g. Garmins) also have methods for noting pictures on GPS tracks. This can often be more reliable, IME.
Geo-tagging pictures is kind of a rabbit hole to be honest. It's still slows down picture taking, is a battery drainer and an expensive option.
posted by bonehead at 8:07 AM on April 11, 2018
This isn't a common feature in a micro 4/3 body, and I've looked. Indeed I'm not sure that this exists in any of the Olympus or Panasonic bodies currently. We use rugged P&S cameras for this purpose (and they do come under your budget).
In addition, ideally you want not just a GPS, but also an electronic compass so that you know not only where you were, but in which direction the picture was taken. Also be aware that GPS lock-up can take quite a while and that certain cameras do do it better than others. Most consumer phones are actually pretty good at this now as they use Adaptive GPS with the cell towers to help locate the phone. GPS (satellite only) units can't do this, of course.
There are add-ons compatible with most cameras that will do this. Also most hand-held GPS units (e.g. Garmins) also have methods for noting pictures on GPS tracks. This can often be more reliable, IME.
Geo-tagging pictures is kind of a rabbit hole to be honest. It's still slows down picture taking, is a battery drainer and an expensive option.
posted by bonehead at 8:07 AM on April 11, 2018
It wasn't? What was it?
posted by rileyray3000 at 8:07 AM on April 11, 2018
posted by rileyray3000 at 8:07 AM on April 11, 2018
I believe all NEX cameras are Sony E-mount, so if you have any lenses left you may want to stick with sony (micro 4/3 adaptors are available for both directions, but sony stuff isn't renowned for 3rd party compatibility).
DPReview has an excellent camera database you can search for the combination of features you want like GPS and lens type.
posted by samj at 8:21 AM on April 11, 2018
DPReview has an excellent camera database you can search for the combination of features you want like GPS and lens type.
posted by samj at 8:21 AM on April 11, 2018
It wasn't? What was it?
Micro 4/3 cameras are mirrorless cameras built to the four-thirds sensor specification, smaller than a full-frame (35mm) sensor by an amount that make it very easy to compare the focal length to the full frame standard by doubling it - to give a concrete example, the lens I bought for portraiture on my M4/3 has a real focal length of 45mm, which means it is equivalent to using a 90mm lens on a full-frame camera. Panasonic and Olympus both make bodies and lenses for this spec.
The Sony-NEX series is also a series of mirrorless cameras with a smaller-than-full-frame sensor, but rather than specifically the 4/3 specification, they use the slightly larger APS-C. Whatever the real focal length of a given lens is, you multiply it by 1.5 (the Sony NEX-6 "crop factor") to determine what it would be equivalent to if you were using a full-frame sensor.
Usually the lenses are marketed using the full-frame equivalents because that's the scale everyone is already familiar with; you really only need to know the details of the real focal lengths and crop factors if you start using adapters to mount lenses from other systems.
TL;DR version: all micro 4/3 cameras are mirrorless. Not all mirrorless cameras are M4/3.
posted by solotoro at 10:03 AM on April 11, 2018
Micro 4/3 cameras are mirrorless cameras built to the four-thirds sensor specification, smaller than a full-frame (35mm) sensor by an amount that make it very easy to compare the focal length to the full frame standard by doubling it - to give a concrete example, the lens I bought for portraiture on my M4/3 has a real focal length of 45mm, which means it is equivalent to using a 90mm lens on a full-frame camera. Panasonic and Olympus both make bodies and lenses for this spec.
The Sony-NEX series is also a series of mirrorless cameras with a smaller-than-full-frame sensor, but rather than specifically the 4/3 specification, they use the slightly larger APS-C. Whatever the real focal length of a given lens is, you multiply it by 1.5 (the Sony NEX-6 "crop factor") to determine what it would be equivalent to if you were using a full-frame sensor.
Usually the lenses are marketed using the full-frame equivalents because that's the scale everyone is already familiar with; you really only need to know the details of the real focal lengths and crop factors if you start using adapters to mount lenses from other systems.
TL;DR version: all micro 4/3 cameras are mirrorless. Not all mirrorless cameras are M4/3.
posted by solotoro at 10:03 AM on April 11, 2018
Your old camera had an APS-C sensor, which is larger than a 4/3 sensor. The difference in image quality between the two isn't terribly significant in practice, however.
At your price point you might consider the Sony Alpha a6000 if you still have Sony E-mount lenses from your old camera. However, this model is a few years old and if you don't have any E-mount lenses laying around I'd definitely recommend looking at newer cameras.
You'll probably find something close to what you're looking for in a micro 4/3 model, but as others have pointed out it's unlikely to have GPS. It's more common for a camera to have wifi so it can connect to a phone app which provides location data that the camera uses to geo-tag photos.
DPReview is a great resource. Their buying guide can give you a good start, as well as their feature search that samj linked to.
posted by theory at 10:05 AM on April 11, 2018
At your price point you might consider the Sony Alpha a6000 if you still have Sony E-mount lenses from your old camera. However, this model is a few years old and if you don't have any E-mount lenses laying around I'd definitely recommend looking at newer cameras.
You'll probably find something close to what you're looking for in a micro 4/3 model, but as others have pointed out it's unlikely to have GPS. It's more common for a camera to have wifi so it can connect to a phone app which provides location data that the camera uses to geo-tag photos.
DPReview is a great resource. Their buying guide can give you a good start, as well as their feature search that samj linked to.
posted by theory at 10:05 AM on April 11, 2018
Olympus cameras rely on your phone's GPS and tracking in their app. When you want to tag your photos with GPS locations you turn the tracking on in the app before you start shooting and turn it off when you're done, then the next time you sync to the camera over wifi the app will retroactively tag all the photos you took based on timestamps. It works pretty well and it means the camera doesn't need the GPS hardware or the resulting battery drain.
If you want another thing just like your Sony but newer, look at the A6000 or A5000 series (I don't keep up so I don't know what the newest models are or how many of the older ones they're still selling). Literally any of them will take good pictures, and the differences will come down to software features and how well they focus. Sony's lenses for the smaller sensor cameras using E mount vary from OK to pretty good, but they've been doing most of their lens development on nicer glass for their full frame cameras. Their full frame lenses (labeled FE lenses) can be extremely good, but they're heavy (because they're designed for the larger sensor) and idiosyncratic.
If you want something even smaller, the latest great-but-small Micro Four Thirds cameras are Panasonic's GX9 (which I think is over your budget, sadly) and Olympus' brand-new* PEN E-PL9. They're both really good, and you should base your decision on how you feel about the shooting experience. I own two Olympus bodies and the GX9 is tempting as a crossgrade for me the next time I need to replace my smaller body, which mostly wasn't true of previous Panasonic models.
* Olympus iterates the PEN line every year and the line doesn't change much from year to year. They've been at 16 megapixels for longer than I've been paying attention. You can probably still pick up an E-PL8 or even E-PL7 without looking too hard.
posted by fedward at 10:12 AM on April 11, 2018
If you want another thing just like your Sony but newer, look at the A6000 or A5000 series (I don't keep up so I don't know what the newest models are or how many of the older ones they're still selling). Literally any of them will take good pictures, and the differences will come down to software features and how well they focus. Sony's lenses for the smaller sensor cameras using E mount vary from OK to pretty good, but they've been doing most of their lens development on nicer glass for their full frame cameras. Their full frame lenses (labeled FE lenses) can be extremely good, but they're heavy (because they're designed for the larger sensor) and idiosyncratic.
If you want something even smaller, the latest great-but-small Micro Four Thirds cameras are Panasonic's GX9 (which I think is over your budget, sadly) and Olympus' brand-new* PEN E-PL9. They're both really good, and you should base your decision on how you feel about the shooting experience. I own two Olympus bodies and the GX9 is tempting as a crossgrade for me the next time I need to replace my smaller body, which mostly wasn't true of previous Panasonic models.
* Olympus iterates the PEN line every year and the line doesn't change much from year to year. They've been at 16 megapixels for longer than I've been paying attention. You can probably still pick up an E-PL8 or even E-PL7 without looking too hard.
posted by fedward at 10:12 AM on April 11, 2018
BTW without getting too much into jargon there are many different sensor sizes available in different camera formats these days. "Full frame" cameras have a sensor that's 36 mm X 24 mm, the same size as a frame of 35 mm film. Anything smaller than that may be called a "crop" sensor, because relative to a photo taken with a full frame sensor the photo would appear to be cropped. The Sony NEX series that became the A series has what's commonly known as an APS-C size sensor (roughly the same size as APS film, if you remember it). Micro Four Thirds cameras have an even smaller sensor, and there are "compact" cameras with sensors that are smaller still.
The bigger the sensor, the bigger the lens; the bigger the lens, the heavier. Conversely: the bigger the sensor, the better its light gathering abilities; the better the light gathering, the better the result. Choosing a camera is a balance between the minimum light gathering you can deal with and the maximum size and weight you wish to carry. I like the smaller package of m43 more than I care about the light gathering of APS-C. Every now and then I wish I had a camera with better light gathering, but I'd ideally go full frame or bigger for the stuff I want it for, and I don't want that enough to pay for it or to carry it all the time.
posted by fedward at 10:32 AM on April 11, 2018
The bigger the sensor, the bigger the lens; the bigger the lens, the heavier. Conversely: the bigger the sensor, the better its light gathering abilities; the better the light gathering, the better the result. Choosing a camera is a balance between the minimum light gathering you can deal with and the maximum size and weight you wish to carry. I like the smaller package of m43 more than I care about the light gathering of APS-C. Every now and then I wish I had a camera with better light gathering, but I'd ideally go full frame or bigger for the stuff I want it for, and I don't want that enough to pay for it or to carry it all the time.
posted by fedward at 10:32 AM on April 11, 2018
Olympus cameras rely on your phone's GPS and tracking in their app.
Panasonics work this way, too. OP I recommend going into a store and having a play; image quality on smaller mirrorless cameras is very very close, ergonomics and menus/usability is the biggest differentiator these days I think.
An example, last year I was going to get a panasonic gx85, but I foundthe EVF tiny and annoying, and the grip was no good for me; I stumped for the bigger but far more comfortable GX8 in the end. The ergonomics actually completely changed my decision making process.
posted by smoke at 7:41 PM on April 11, 2018
Panasonics work this way, too. OP I recommend going into a store and having a play; image quality on smaller mirrorless cameras is very very close, ergonomics and menus/usability is the biggest differentiator these days I think.
An example, last year I was going to get a panasonic gx85, but I foundthe EVF tiny and annoying, and the grip was no good for me; I stumped for the bigger but far more comfortable GX8 in the end. The ergonomics actually completely changed my decision making process.
posted by smoke at 7:41 PM on April 11, 2018
If you already have E-mount lenses from your NEX-6 you'll almost certainly want to stick with E-mount, unless you're willing to totally blow up your budget buying all new lenses. E-mount is a Sony mount, so that means basically buying whatever the best E-mount Sony is that fits in your budget, and that's the a6000. It is definitely a bit long in the tooth but was very popular and well-regarded. If you're willing to stretch a little, I'm seeing used a6300s (like the a6000, but from 2016 instead of 2014) on eBay for about $700 and I think that would be a worthwhile jump. The a6300 was also very highly rated when it came out, and two years in camera time makes a big difference.
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 4:14 AM on April 12, 2018
posted by Anticipation Of A New Lover's Arrival, The at 4:14 AM on April 12, 2018
As a heads up I have NO lenses for the Sony any longer. Whoever got the camera in South Africa got those two. So aside from a backup charger, this is a starting from scratch thing.
posted by rileyray3000 at 11:26 AM on April 15, 2018
posted by rileyray3000 at 11:26 AM on April 15, 2018
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posted by n9 at 7:55 AM on April 11, 2018