Driving in snow to go skiing, scaredy-cat edition

February 23, 2018 8:53 PM

So my family is interested in learning to ski. But my wife and I do not have much experience driving in snow. We've canceled trips already because of fear and uncertainty about road conditions. We aren't clear if we have the right gear, or what conditions are part of the experience vs. a definite do-not-attempt. Snowflakes inside, har har.

1. We have a new Subaru Forester. We don't have snow tires, just whatever tires it came with. The car's manual says that we must not install chains on this car, but:

   When tire chains cannot be used, use of another type of traction device (such as spring chains) may be acceptable if use on your vehicle is recommended by the device manufacturer, taking into account tire size and road conditions.

   So we bought a set of Laclede cable chains (#1042) that has the "SAE class S" designation. But they don't say they're spring chains, and maybe worse the exact tire size we have isn't listed on the included card. Our tires are P225/60R17, the card has 225/60R17 without the P. Is this really the right traction device for this car?
2. Aside from the chains, we have a small snow shovel. What else should we have?
3. Supposing we have the right equipment. How much snow is too much? Stevens Pass is expecting around a foot of snow to fall between now and when we'd arrive tomorrow morning. I used to drive in snow when I was in college and didn't really think much of it, but I never went up/down mountains. I feel like being comfortable driving in snow is kind of important if you want to ski, but I have nothing to back that up and don't want to let bravado get in the way of common sense. So how much is too much snow?

posted by rouftop to Sports, Hobbies, & Recreation (21 answers total)

https://www.wsdot.com/traffic/passes/stevens/
posted by lathrop at 9:19 PM on February 23, 2018 [1 favorite]

Call the dealer/or manufacturer for recommendations as chains aren't allowed . They will know exactly what goes with your car.

On a well travelled road I wouldn't worry to much. Just drive slow and steady, put lots of space between you and other traffic and adjust breaking times accordingly .

Not well travelled roads are trickier, especially if they aren't regularly plowed or treated. I don't know the path you are going to take to know. If a foot of snow was falling on a not well travelled road the night before, I would pass on driving. I live in Chicago and have driven to Yellowstone in the winter.
posted by AlexiaSky at 9:21 PM on February 23, 2018

Have an emergency kit in the car. You can either assemble your own, or buy a pre-assembled one. This will have things like jumper cables, hand warmers, flares, a space blanket, a couple of non-perishable snacks (granola bar or something), extra gloves.

If you mean that you’ll be driving on roads that either just got a foot of snow on them, or heavy snow will be falling during your trip, then yes, it would be stupid to go.

It would be especially stupid to take your new car, which says in plain language that you should not use tire chains, and put tire chains on it that you’re not even sure will fit, and then drive in a foot of snow in mountains for the first time ever. And why, because your loved one just got bumped up on the heart transplant list and the ambulance is stuck? No, because you want to go skiing.

I live in MN and we’re supposed to get 6-10” of snow tomorrow too. There’s no mountains in Minneapolis and I was going to host a party tomorrow, so you know what I decided? I’m making everyone drive 30 miles to my house to bake cupcakes. Just kidding, I canceled the party. Obviously. Because driving in terrible road conditions can kill you.

I would also argue that a road being well-traveled or not is less important than if it is PLOWED before you go drive on it. If it’s not plowed, then it will be slippery and tricky, and you have a good chance of wiping out or getting stuck.

Instead of skiing, I would highly recommend finding a flat surface with snow on it and practicing driving the car instead. You’ll get an idea for how it handles. Don’t go do the black diamond equivalent of snow driving when you should be on the bunny hill.
posted by Autumnheart at 9:25 PM on February 23, 2018 [2 favorites]

To put it another way, no, you are not being a wuss in the slightest for being leery of driving in a foot of snow, Subaru or no Subaru. That’s “stay off the roads unless it’s a legitimate emergency/you have a plow on the front of your truck” weather.
posted by Autumnheart at 9:33 PM on February 23, 2018 [1 favorite]

Best answer: There’s a difference between driving on a road or a parking lot with snow in it and driving in a snow storm. Don’t drive in a snow storm if you can avoid it. But driving to a ski mountain the day after it snows after the roads have been plowed and salt has been spread? This isn’t really a big problem. The ski mountains are expecting people to come with cars.

Put together an emergency kit and make sure you can create enough traction if you’re stuck, but you should generally be fine.
posted by deanc at 10:01 PM on February 23, 2018 [9 favorites]

WSDOT keeps Pass conditions updated and you can even view a traffic camera of the road. Right now they advise traction tires. Keep an eye on conditions here: https://www.wsdot.com/traffic/passes/stevens/


I have cable chains for my car and like them, some people swear you’ll ruin your car forever. It’s a calculated risk and everyone comes up with their own answer. If you go for it, absolutely practice putting them on at home.

Have an emergency kit, leave lots of room to stop. Pay attention to pass condition updates and tire/chain requirements.
posted by HMSSM at 10:02 PM on February 23, 2018 [1 favorite]

Stevens and Snoqualmie are two huge routes of ground transportation into western Washington/Seattle. WSDOT does an amazing job keeping them plowed and as clear as possible. As long as you pay attention and follow their warnings/tire recommendations you’re probably going to have more trouble finding parking than driving.
posted by HMSSM at 10:06 PM on February 23, 2018 [4 favorites]

I bought Autosocks for my Subaru. They're state-approved traction devices in Washington, and they're amazing. Remember that you'll need four of whatever you bought, since it's an AWD car. Having said that, I've never had to use them at Stevens Pass, it'll be plowed and you'll get stuck behind someone driving incredibly slowly anyway.

I usually toss a couple of carpet squares and a bag of kitty litter in my trunk when I'm headed for snow (but have only ever used my avy snow shovel to dig my car out of parking spots, it works fine).

Buy an ice scraper/broom/whatever you prefer the get the snow off your car at the end of the day, or a windshield cover. I love not having to deal with snow on the windshield.
posted by halogen at 10:16 PM on February 23, 2018 [3 favorites]

Best answer: rouftop: "Our tires are P225/60R17, the card has 225/60R17 without the P."

I don't know if these are specifically the correct device for your car but these identifiers are, for your purposes, the same thing. However you need to try your chains on as the sizes on the box are just guidelines and a specific set nominally the right size may not fit your car.

With cable chains I like to use zip ties to keep the loose adjusting end from flapping around.
posted by Mitheral at 12:34 AM on February 24, 2018

Everyone else has talked about the chains issue. But you also said that you don't have winter tyres. Even if you HAD chains that definitely fit your car, they are only for the situation where the road is actually covered in packed snow or ice. If the road is clear-ish but potentially icy in stretches or the temperature is really low, you can't use the chains, but driving around on regular tires will be hugely hazardous.

I would not go driving up to a ski resort during ski season without winter tyres unless I was really really certain all the roads were clear and it was going to be above zero and sunny the whole time.
posted by quacks like a duck at 2:22 AM on February 24, 2018 [1 favorite]

You don't need chains if you're on a main road, which a road to ski likely is. I lived in a ski town for 6 years and went skiing off decently traveled road with a front wheel drive car only without snow tires. Don't drive on backroads or into deep unplowed snow and you'll be fine.

You probably don't have the right gear. Go skiing for an hour and see how it goes. Rinse and repeat if you're having fun. Talk to other skiiers. Get gear cheaply over time that you think will make the experience better.
posted by Kalmya at 5:15 AM on February 24, 2018

You don't have to have traction devices on all four wheels of an AWD/4WD car, but you can (as vs a 2WD car where you need chains on the driven wheels and usually -- but not always -- don't want them on the unpowered wheels.).

Note that modern AWD (and even 4WD) cars don't distribute power equally to both axles under normal conditions and can impact which wheels should have the chains (although I've heard differing opinions on what that means -- some people put them on the rear wheels which usually get more power, others prefer them on the steered wheels...if you manual says no chains at all, maybe ask a knowledgeable non-dealership mechanic, or do all four with those socks things).

I'm used to snow driving in the Sierras -- and I've only ever had to chain up a AWD/4WD vehicle during a storm or immediately after it, most of the time all weather tires (not studded snow tires) are fine.

You just drive a lot more cautiously, the more snow there is on the road. A lot more stopping distance, less speed, ease into turns, gentle cornering so you don't lose traction and slide (although AWD is much more forgiving with this).

Everything is just a lot less precise. If you have ABS and you're not used to feeling it release and re-actuate, make sure you know to hold the brake down even when it's rumbling and the car is sliding and the brakes feel like they're losing effectiveness - they're not, they're riding the brake pressure to avoid locking the wheels which can mean VERY slow stopping in snow. If it's really slippery, use a lower gear for some engine braking.

Snow isn't such a big deal once you get used to the braking and steering response -- it's ice you really have to watch out for.
posted by snuffleupagus at 5:37 AM on February 24, 2018

I was scared of driving in the snow too. Now I live right up by Park City in Utah and regularly commute to work in all conditions in my Honda Civic. Before that a little ScionXB. Just go slow and you’re okay.
posted by Marinara at 6:30 AM on February 24, 2018

Other people have handled the "when to drive" aspect pretty well--though I'll put in a plug for "dedicated snow tires seem like way less of a hassle and give you much better traction/confidence" to consider.

For your winter kit, in addition to the shovel:
-two scrapers/brushes (so someone can help you)
-some ice melt and/or kitty litter (or get a jug and make your own mix)
-warm blanket/sleeping bag
-extra gloves/hat
-some of those heat packs that you activate by shaking
-an extra phone charger if one doesn't live in your car already

And make sure that you've got antifreeze in your windshield fluid reservoir--I realized that the cheap oil change place hadn't done that for me at the start of the winter when my fluid kept freezing, sigh.
posted by TwoStride at 6:36 AM on February 24, 2018 [2 favorites]

Stevens and Snoqualmie are two huge routes of ground transportation into western Washington/Seattle. WSDOT does an amazing job keeping them plowed and as clear as possible. As long as you pay attention and follow their warnings/tire recommendations you’re probably going to have more trouble finding parking than driving.

This. Check the current conditions and the cameras, and as long as the road is open and plows are running you will be fine. These are major routes and they are kept open for truck and passenger vehicle traffic; WSDOT will make it clear when conditions are bad if you follow their reports. (And the parking thing, too -- I'm not a skier but a while back we stopped at Stevens for lunch and even on a slow day the parking lot was a confusing mess.)

Do check (by reading all the hard-to-read writing on the side of your tires, or on the tire manufacturer's website) if your tires qualify as "traction tires" per WSDOT's requirements. I cross the passes fairly frequently and I carry chains because they are required, but I've never had to use them -- having 4wd and good tires (with chains in the vehicle) means you are exempt from needing to use chains, and likely will never need them.

If you are going to be going into the mountains frequently, spending some money on winter tires would be an excellent idea. I'd skip this if it is a once a year thing, but if you are there all the time, you want to be using appropriate tires for the conditions.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:47 AM on February 24, 2018

FWIW, the all-season tires that came with the 2 Foresters I bought new were not very good in snow. That may not be worth much, because the last one was in 2002. Snow tires are worlds better than any all-season tires in snow, but it's a lot of money if you don't live with snow.

Subarus operate as front-wheel drive when they have normal traction. That changes in snow, when they supposedly send power to whichever wheels have the most traction. That, and the Traction Control system will make you less likely to lose it unless you're going way too fast. That system does nothing for braking. All cars now have antilock braking, and will do their best to keep you from locking up the brakes and sliding into a ditch. Again, if you're driving too fast or too closely to the car ahead, you can defeat ABS. Snow tires help there, too.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 9:29 AM on February 24, 2018 [1 favorite]

There were a few years I had season passes in Tahoe. I drove my 95 Impreza in all types of snowy conditions with all-weather tires and never had to stop to put on chains. Your more modern Subaru is likely to handle snow better than mine did. I think you'll be fine with your cables. Carry a shovel, a windshield scraper, the best window defroster fluid, some water, blankets, snacks, gloves specifically for doing car/chain stuff (so they don't get lost), a flashlight. Drive as slowly as you need, pull over carefully to let people pass. Don't slam on your brakes or turn quickly and you will be just fine.
posted by oneirodynia at 2:17 PM on February 24, 2018 [1 favorite]

Also agree that the road to Stevens will be being plowed regularly.
posted by oneirodynia at 2:18 PM on February 24, 2018

Do you actually need to drive? I don’t know where you are, but every ski resort I have ever skied in (lots, both Europe and North America) had ski buses from the nearest big towns. I’ve never needed to hire a car to go skiing.

The ski bus will be more expensive, but you won’t need to worry about driving, and hopping back on the bus with a coffee and then snoozing all the way home is far FAR nicer than getting behind the wheel after a long day on the slopes.
posted by tinkletown at 2:43 PM on February 24, 2018 [2 favorites]

You can practice winter driving on mud or sand, or in a snowy or icy but empty-of-cars parking lot. I have found that my experience riding bicycles that are not full mountain or BMX bikes on sand lots or paved roads that have some sand or grit cover has helped my driving in snow skill, as well - one or two wipe outs (at not so dangerous bicycling speeds) gives one a decent sense for how road conditions affect how fast one can take a corner or how long it takes to come to a stop.

The most important thing to remember for driving in snowy or icy conditions is not to make sudden changes (to direction or speed): drive smoothly. This means planning ahead more, leaving more following distance between you and the car in front of you (eg. at least 5 to 10 seconds instead of 2 seconds), slowing sooner for stops at intersections, starting slower from stops, letting off the gas coming up to a turn so you can avoid braking, etc.
posted by eviemath at 6:26 AM on February 25, 2018 [2 favorites]

In addition to keeping an eye on WSDOT’s Pass pages, you should also familiarize yourself with NWAC: https://www.nwac.us.
posted by HMSSM at 9:18 PM on February 25, 2018