How to help an 11yo kid escape from a malignant narcissist parent?
September 27, 2017 3:54 PM Subscribe
I know an 11 year old girl whose father is a malignant narcissist with a high IQ.
Could anyone suggest how this child might 1) recognize all of the signs of narcissistic abuse, and 2) free herself and get away from him on her own (and get back with her mother)?
Sorry this is so long.
Her mother fled from his abuse when the girl was much younger, and after a long period of high-conflict legal proceedings (employing narcissistic tactics, undoubtedly) he won custody of the child. Her mother has already exhausted all legal/financial resources to find a solution.
I am a family member on the other side of the country from her, and she lives in Florida.
This girl is showing signs of narcissistic victim syndrome. She is afraid that if she tries to get away, she won't be able to get away without failing somehow, and it will get much worse for her at home. Her father is very likely monitoring her phone calls, text messages, and emails (I know that he did this to her mother for the duration of their relationship).
There are hardly any resources I've found for something like this (and what I've found makes this situation look depressing and hopeless).
She has said that any new friends who address that something is wrong are quickly removed from her life - she says "Dad won't let me see them anymore."
I even called CPS on behalf of the child, and was told that they are too overburdened with severe abuse and neglect cases to be able to investigate her situation, unless there is hard evidence of physical abuse/neglect. That phone call made me want to scream.
When they both argue with each other, he tells her that she should leave and go live with her mother, but then later when she (still) wants to leave, he says that she can't.
She has been left with bruises on her body from spankings, which she hid from others until they healed, because her father told her "if you tell anyone, it will be your fault when I get taken away... your life will be worse without me to take care of you... no one else cares about you like I do." When asked directly to tell someone about these events - like the school counselor/nurse/teachers or the police - she says she is afraid they will tell him about it, and then send her back to him, and he will hate her forever. So, she has refused the opportunity before. I can tell that she is frightened of doing anything that would risk making life at home even more uncomfortable, but at the same time, I know she doesn't want to live with him anymore, and she doesn't know how to get away. She may not even be able to articulate that what is happening to her is, indeed, a kind of abuse.
I know that the mother isn't going to do anything illegal, or anything that would otherwise violate their court-ordered parenting plan. She is not even going to say the truth to her daughter like "your father abused me before," because she is afraid of getting legally slapped again for anything resembling parental alienation, in case anything she says to her daughter makes it back to the her father (again, phone calls and texts being monitored). She had to employee the "gray rock" method and go no-contact with her ex and daughter's father, for her own safety and emotional health. After she fled, she went into a program similar to witness protection, because he stalked her repeatedly when she tried to get away from him over the many years they were together.
I know that an issue like this is very challenging to confront, but I'm hoping that there can be a way to reach out to her indirectly, and give her ideas about what to do to get help and get out, like a sort of Shawshank Redemption.
I know that whatever happens, the solution must be creative and something her father won't be able to stop her from doing. So, direct phone calls/texts and email messages are out - however, using the school as a medium for private phone calls and or deliveries may be an option? I'm not sure.
Maybe, posting on an instagram that she follows, about "how to recognize emotional abuse" and/or "what to do if you're a kid being abused emotionally/mentally"?
If I can safely send materials to her through her school - like books about parental narcissistic abuse - does anyone make materials like this, geared for kids and young adults??
I really don't know what a kid can do in this situation. I am really frustrated that CPS did nothing when I called them before - I thought they would be the best go-to group to help. I'm not really aware of what other options I can use to help her, but I can't sleep at night knowing that this child is stuck in this awful situation.
Any thoughtful suggestions and ideas are appreciated. Thank you.
Sorry this is so long.
Her mother fled from his abuse when the girl was much younger, and after a long period of high-conflict legal proceedings (employing narcissistic tactics, undoubtedly) he won custody of the child. Her mother has already exhausted all legal/financial resources to find a solution.
I am a family member on the other side of the country from her, and she lives in Florida.
This girl is showing signs of narcissistic victim syndrome. She is afraid that if she tries to get away, she won't be able to get away without failing somehow, and it will get much worse for her at home. Her father is very likely monitoring her phone calls, text messages, and emails (I know that he did this to her mother for the duration of their relationship).
There are hardly any resources I've found for something like this (and what I've found makes this situation look depressing and hopeless).
She has said that any new friends who address that something is wrong are quickly removed from her life - she says "Dad won't let me see them anymore."
I even called CPS on behalf of the child, and was told that they are too overburdened with severe abuse and neglect cases to be able to investigate her situation, unless there is hard evidence of physical abuse/neglect. That phone call made me want to scream.
When they both argue with each other, he tells her that she should leave and go live with her mother, but then later when she (still) wants to leave, he says that she can't.
She has been left with bruises on her body from spankings, which she hid from others until they healed, because her father told her "if you tell anyone, it will be your fault when I get taken away... your life will be worse without me to take care of you... no one else cares about you like I do." When asked directly to tell someone about these events - like the school counselor/nurse/teachers or the police - she says she is afraid they will tell him about it, and then send her back to him, and he will hate her forever. So, she has refused the opportunity before. I can tell that she is frightened of doing anything that would risk making life at home even more uncomfortable, but at the same time, I know she doesn't want to live with him anymore, and she doesn't know how to get away. She may not even be able to articulate that what is happening to her is, indeed, a kind of abuse.
I know that the mother isn't going to do anything illegal, or anything that would otherwise violate their court-ordered parenting plan. She is not even going to say the truth to her daughter like "your father abused me before," because she is afraid of getting legally slapped again for anything resembling parental alienation, in case anything she says to her daughter makes it back to the her father (again, phone calls and texts being monitored). She had to employee the "gray rock" method and go no-contact with her ex and daughter's father, for her own safety and emotional health. After she fled, she went into a program similar to witness protection, because he stalked her repeatedly when she tried to get away from him over the many years they were together.
I know that an issue like this is very challenging to confront, but I'm hoping that there can be a way to reach out to her indirectly, and give her ideas about what to do to get help and get out, like a sort of Shawshank Redemption.
I know that whatever happens, the solution must be creative and something her father won't be able to stop her from doing. So, direct phone calls/texts and email messages are out - however, using the school as a medium for private phone calls and or deliveries may be an option? I'm not sure.
Maybe, posting on an instagram that she follows, about "how to recognize emotional abuse" and/or "what to do if you're a kid being abused emotionally/mentally"?
If I can safely send materials to her through her school - like books about parental narcissistic abuse - does anyone make materials like this, geared for kids and young adults??
I really don't know what a kid can do in this situation. I am really frustrated that CPS did nothing when I called them before - I thought they would be the best go-to group to help. I'm not really aware of what other options I can use to help her, but I can't sleep at night knowing that this child is stuck in this awful situation.
Any thoughtful suggestions and ideas are appreciated. Thank you.
If she has bruises from being "spanked," that is physical evidence that is prosecutable for physical abuse of a child. A "spank" is a smack or slap on the bum, which may leave a red mark if done on a regular skin, but bruises indicate a more forceful contact injury. I would try again with child protective services, police, and/or even the child's school/healthcare provider.
posted by stillmoving at 4:19 PM on September 27, 2017 [9 favorites]
posted by stillmoving at 4:19 PM on September 27, 2017 [9 favorites]
Most schools will not allow people to communicate with children if you are not already on an approved list, except in cases of dire emergency. (like a death in the family.)
You can contact her school directly as a concerned family member. They may be obligated by law to investigate if someone reports abuse. You could also contact her pediatrician and tell them you are concerned. The police will typically not act unless a child is in immediate danger. And as you have seen, CPS often will not either. The best thing to do would be to gather photographic and video evidence, but that appears to be impossible since you're so far away.
--
I don't have any book recommendations, but it's worth noting that the Kindle and Nook apps are free to download in the Android Google Play and Apple ios stores. Both Amazon and Barnes and Noble allow people to send books as gifts. If you were to send her multiple digital books as a gift (or do so on a regular basis) and slip one in on a particular subject it might not even be noticed by a parent scrutinizing her phone or tablet. Also, Kindle specifically allows people to read books on their own accounts using a web browser. So additional privacy might be possible. But to arrange this, you would need to speak with her in advance.
posted by zarq at 4:27 PM on September 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
You can contact her school directly as a concerned family member. They may be obligated by law to investigate if someone reports abuse. You could also contact her pediatrician and tell them you are concerned. The police will typically not act unless a child is in immediate danger. And as you have seen, CPS often will not either. The best thing to do would be to gather photographic and video evidence, but that appears to be impossible since you're so far away.
--
I don't have any book recommendations, but it's worth noting that the Kindle and Nook apps are free to download in the Android Google Play and Apple ios stores. Both Amazon and Barnes and Noble allow people to send books as gifts. If you were to send her multiple digital books as a gift (or do so on a regular basis) and slip one in on a particular subject it might not even be noticed by a parent scrutinizing her phone or tablet. Also, Kindle specifically allows people to read books on their own accounts using a web browser. So additional privacy might be possible. But to arrange this, you would need to speak with her in advance.
posted by zarq at 4:27 PM on September 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
Response by poster: @salvia: that is such a great idea and hadn't occurred to me - thank you! Brilliant!
@stillmoving: as I mentioned, she hid the bruising until it was healed, and it was months after that happened before she told anyone. That was when I called CPS and was told they needed evidence, which I couldn't obtain for them.
posted by erasorhed at 4:35 PM on September 27, 2017
@stillmoving: as I mentioned, she hid the bruising until it was healed, and it was months after that happened before she told anyone. That was when I called CPS and was told they needed evidence, which I couldn't obtain for them.
posted by erasorhed at 4:35 PM on September 27, 2017
How is this abusive situation manifesting itself at school? Is she struggling in classes? Is she being bullied by others (due to low self-esteem or forced withdrawal from friends? Is she in obvious emotional distress?
If so, maybe you can reach out to the school counselor. Perhaps if the counselor gets involved and starts having regular contact with your niece, she will eventually open up about the abuse and provide concrete evidence that can be acted upon. I would try reaching out to the school counselor with your concerns and see if they can be enlisted as an ally on behalf of your niece.
I would also research other non-profits in the area to see what kind of advice they can offer. I know my local Jewish Family Services offers supports for victims of abuse and there are a number of other non-governmental organizations that do so as well. They would probably be able to offer a lot of guidance for you and may have other suggestions for how you can intervene.
posted by brookeb at 4:47 PM on September 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
If so, maybe you can reach out to the school counselor. Perhaps if the counselor gets involved and starts having regular contact with your niece, she will eventually open up about the abuse and provide concrete evidence that can be acted upon. I would try reaching out to the school counselor with your concerns and see if they can be enlisted as an ally on behalf of your niece.
I would also research other non-profits in the area to see what kind of advice they can offer. I know my local Jewish Family Services offers supports for victims of abuse and there are a number of other non-governmental organizations that do so as well. They would probably be able to offer a lot of guidance for you and may have other suggestions for how you can intervene.
posted by brookeb at 4:47 PM on September 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
Building on salvia's idea, can you finagle a way to send her to camp next summer? If she starts now, she can get into the CIT/Junior Counselor/Counselor track which would be good for her self esteem and get her away from him. Similar ideas: take her on longish trips (National Parks, Europe, whatever). Encourage her to be an exchange student (maybe via Rotary's program). Encourage her to get involved with activities where she'll be exposed to healthy families, like maybe a traveling sports team, so she has other models for reference.
Re: information sources, a good place to pose this question might be the Raised by Narcissists sub-Reddit. She may be too young for it, but it's a very helpful and caring community.
posted by carmicha at 5:18 PM on September 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
Re: information sources, a good place to pose this question might be the Raised by Narcissists sub-Reddit. She may be too young for it, but it's a very helpful and caring community.
posted by carmicha at 5:18 PM on September 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
Can any other family members visit? Can the extended family start scraping together a pot of money for either legal bills or therapy bills in the future? I'm sorry your young relative is going through this.
posted by puddledork at 5:39 PM on September 27, 2017
posted by puddledork at 5:39 PM on September 27, 2017
Thank you for trying to help her! This is a tough situation and I don't think there are a lot of good answers.
This is a problem she can't solve on her own. She needs to focus on staying as safe as she can and the other adults in her life need to figure out how to navigate the system to get her out. If her mom couldn't get her out, how can you expect an 11 year old who's being monitored constantly to manage what her mom couldn't?
One thing I will say is that any effort to get her help cannot rely on her having to tell the truth about what her dad is doing to her to strangers who will not necessarily keep the conversation confidential. She's not wrong that things could get much worse if her father feels seriously betrayed or embarrassed by her, and she may, rationally, think that the risk of that danger is serious enough to risk not asking for help or to continue to cover for him.
I really like the boarding school and camp suggestions above. Just helping her have space away from him where she can be a normal kid will be a huge relief for her. Helping her get those organized would be a great, immediate thing you could do.
posted by snaw at 5:43 PM on September 27, 2017 [14 favorites]
This is a problem she can't solve on her own. She needs to focus on staying as safe as she can and the other adults in her life need to figure out how to navigate the system to get her out. If her mom couldn't get her out, how can you expect an 11 year old who's being monitored constantly to manage what her mom couldn't?
One thing I will say is that any effort to get her help cannot rely on her having to tell the truth about what her dad is doing to her to strangers who will not necessarily keep the conversation confidential. She's not wrong that things could get much worse if her father feels seriously betrayed or embarrassed by her, and she may, rationally, think that the risk of that danger is serious enough to risk not asking for help or to continue to cover for him.
I really like the boarding school and camp suggestions above. Just helping her have space away from him where she can be a normal kid will be a huge relief for her. Helping her get those organized would be a great, immediate thing you could do.
posted by snaw at 5:43 PM on September 27, 2017 [14 favorites]
I'm sorry this is happening. It sounds terrible. 11 years is too young for her to get herself out of this. She needs concrete help from adults who care about her and have the power to change her living situation.
Talking to the school counselor, as brookeb suggests, sounds like a great first step (assuming you can get confidentiality). You could also try to find out which adults she is closest to at the school. Schools often have access to or knowledge about different organizations to connect you and her to.
If mom has been stalked so badly by dad that she had to be in witness protection, I'm shocked that he is now granted custody of their child. I'd suggest reaching out to a family lawyer in their state to ask advice on their particular situation.
On preview, what snaw said.
posted by violetish at 5:48 PM on September 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
Talking to the school counselor, as brookeb suggests, sounds like a great first step (assuming you can get confidentiality). You could also try to find out which adults she is closest to at the school. Schools often have access to or knowledge about different organizations to connect you and her to.
If mom has been stalked so badly by dad that she had to be in witness protection, I'm shocked that he is now granted custody of their child. I'd suggest reaching out to a family lawyer in their state to ask advice on their particular situation.
On preview, what snaw said.
posted by violetish at 5:48 PM on September 27, 2017 [4 favorites]
Best answer: Currently, the legal age for emancipation of minors in Florida, so far as I can tell (from google and from other people's experiences) is sixteen. When a minor petitions for emancipation s/he has to demonstrate s/he can take care of themselves. Maybe I'm missing something, but this is the law as I understand it.
I mention this because I knew someone, who grew up in Florida, who had a narcissistic abusive parent. The way he survived was to learn how to take care of himself before the age of sixteen, so that when he reached that age, he was able to support himself and the judge granted him his emancipation request.
He had the help of role models, other family members who cared, or he would probably have not been able to do this. If nothing can be done immediately to get her out of his custody, my suggestion would be to be the girl's mentor, help her to develop survival skills and resilience, and plan on getting her emancipated. Maybe the idea alone that she can free herself before 18 could be of some help.
I am not a lawyer.
posted by Crystal Fox at 5:52 PM on September 27, 2017 [9 favorites]
I mention this because I knew someone, who grew up in Florida, who had a narcissistic abusive parent. The way he survived was to learn how to take care of himself before the age of sixteen, so that when he reached that age, he was able to support himself and the judge granted him his emancipation request.
He had the help of role models, other family members who cared, or he would probably have not been able to do this. If nothing can be done immediately to get her out of his custody, my suggestion would be to be the girl's mentor, help her to develop survival skills and resilience, and plan on getting her emancipated. Maybe the idea alone that she can free herself before 18 could be of some help.
I am not a lawyer.
posted by Crystal Fox at 5:52 PM on September 27, 2017 [9 favorites]
Mom needs a better lawyer. Everyone needs to document everything. Kid needs a strong relationship with other family members and to petition the judge to stay with Mom the minute she's old enough to in Florida. That's your solution.
Mom most likely abandoned the kid in the eyes of the law if she went into hiding without her so she is absolutely right not to do anything to rock the boat. She isn't going to get anywhere without documentation of the kids abuse from some third parties and ideally her own abuse by this guy. Kid needs trusted adults at school or sports or whatever to talk to that don't already obviously hate her father for them to be taken seriously by family court.
posted by fshgrl at 8:37 PM on September 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
Mom most likely abandoned the kid in the eyes of the law if she went into hiding without her so she is absolutely right not to do anything to rock the boat. She isn't going to get anywhere without documentation of the kids abuse from some third parties and ideally her own abuse by this guy. Kid needs trusted adults at school or sports or whatever to talk to that don't already obviously hate her father for them to be taken seriously by family court.
posted by fshgrl at 8:37 PM on September 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
If you possibly can, get the kid to spend a large chunk of her holidays with you on an extended vacation. Time away from the house and the constant stress of it can only be good for her. I'd do everything I could to get her on a regular basis for a low-stress family night at your house. Give her that love without restrictions and that solidity she lacks at home. She may be too young to change her situation on her own but show her what real parental love is and make sure she knows she can count on you and, when she is old enough, she can turn to you for help.
posted by Foam Pants at 8:51 PM on September 27, 2017
posted by Foam Pants at 8:51 PM on September 27, 2017
Coming in to say that I know a normal, high-functioning adult who went to boarding school for very similar reasons (although in her situation, her mother had passed away). Boarding school saved her. Help her get to boarding school.
posted by samthemander at 10:01 PM on September 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
posted by samthemander at 10:01 PM on September 27, 2017 [3 favorites]
Best answer: DSS, then guardian ad litem. it's the only legit approach where you don't end up in trouble.
posted by j_curiouser at 10:14 PM on September 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
posted by j_curiouser at 10:14 PM on September 27, 2017 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Echoing j_curioser, I'm a guardian ad litem in Ohio and have experience dealing with the narcissistic personality disorder of a parent to some children in my life. I want to say that you should try to be as strong as you can because, if your experience is anything like ours has been, it is a long but worthy fight to break the cycle of narcissism and related mental health disorders in a family.
This appears to be the way to report neglect and maltreatment in Florida for the Dept of Children and Families. If you can make the report to the correct county, the child should be assigned a GAL who can address these issues in court and speak for the child's interests.
posted by Merinda at 11:49 PM on September 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
This appears to be the way to report neglect and maltreatment in Florida for the Dept of Children and Families. If you can make the report to the correct county, the child should be assigned a GAL who can address these issues in court and speak for the child's interests.
posted by Merinda at 11:49 PM on September 27, 2017 [5 favorites]
Response by poster: @brookeb: All I know about the situation currently is based on what the girl says. Everyone has tried to maintain contact but don't have contact with her father (he ignores them). Grandparents even flew from Alaska (their home) all the way to Florida to see her for a planned visit many years ago (prior to them being ignored by her father), and when they arrived, her dad slammed the door in their face. They never got to see her.
She has mentioned she is getting bullied at school and doesn't feel like she has any friends. She is in a new school now, which I just learned the name of. I am in the process of contacting the school counselor there, and seeing if I can arrange to send a confidential diary there, so that she can safely document what is going on at home with her father. And then, those notes will become the record which can be submitted to CPS. Cross your fingers for that!
@carmicha, @puddledork: hopefully her father will allow her to travel again someday. He wouldn't allow it this year.
@carmicha: I really appreciate the suggestion of the sub-reddit, as I am a total newbie to that site and didn't know it existed until you mentioned it.
@fshgrl: to clarify, she was in a state-sponsored protection program which she was able to join through a domestic violence legal advocate. She was not in hiding from the law.
@Merinda: thank you for the link! I will find out where to go from there.
About the lawyer thing: Everyone in the family pooled money together to help with legal resources and costs, especially during the time of the child custody fight. We are all tapped out after putting thousands and thousands toward the legal battle, which proved fruitless.
If you were to read the court minutes, you would be horrified to know the kind of abuse (and sexual torture) that the mom survived and testified about, and provided evidence about, and still, the abuser's attorneys got him a win because they were willing to file falsified information with the court (relating to the judge's continuance regarding jurisdiction of child custody in mom's home state).
The response to said illegal actions by the father's legal team would have required hiring another attorney, with the Bar Association, which no one had any money left to hire.
So, I appreciate the "lawyer up" suggestions (because what other options are there, really?), but lawyers did not solve this problem before, and cost the family so much money that no one is able (and, probably not willing anymore) to go down that route again.
posted by erasorhed at 11:45 AM on September 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
She has mentioned she is getting bullied at school and doesn't feel like she has any friends. She is in a new school now, which I just learned the name of. I am in the process of contacting the school counselor there, and seeing if I can arrange to send a confidential diary there, so that she can safely document what is going on at home with her father. And then, those notes will become the record which can be submitted to CPS. Cross your fingers for that!
@carmicha, @puddledork: hopefully her father will allow her to travel again someday. He wouldn't allow it this year.
@carmicha: I really appreciate the suggestion of the sub-reddit, as I am a total newbie to that site and didn't know it existed until you mentioned it.
@fshgrl: to clarify, she was in a state-sponsored protection program which she was able to join through a domestic violence legal advocate. She was not in hiding from the law.
@Merinda: thank you for the link! I will find out where to go from there.
About the lawyer thing: Everyone in the family pooled money together to help with legal resources and costs, especially during the time of the child custody fight. We are all tapped out after putting thousands and thousands toward the legal battle, which proved fruitless.
If you were to read the court minutes, you would be horrified to know the kind of abuse (and sexual torture) that the mom survived and testified about, and provided evidence about, and still, the abuser's attorneys got him a win because they were willing to file falsified information with the court (relating to the judge's continuance regarding jurisdiction of child custody in mom's home state).
The response to said illegal actions by the father's legal team would have required hiring another attorney, with the Bar Association, which no one had any money left to hire.
So, I appreciate the "lawyer up" suggestions (because what other options are there, really?), but lawyers did not solve this problem before, and cost the family so much money that no one is able (and, probably not willing anymore) to go down that route again.
posted by erasorhed at 11:45 AM on September 28, 2017 [1 favorite]
Random suggestion - have you all tried to get crowdfunding for more legal representation?
posted by koahiatamadl at 12:24 PM on September 28, 2017
posted by koahiatamadl at 12:24 PM on September 28, 2017
« Older one newish tire and three worn-out ones: what to... | What should I know about serving on a nonprofit... Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by salvia at 4:15 PM on September 27, 2017 [16 favorites]