Need "dress like an adult" advice
May 14, 2017 3:47 PM
I'm being sent on a trip for work, and it's got me thinking about how I dress. Can you help me decide what the normal expectation would be, so I can add some appropriate clothing to my closet?
I work in an industrial environment. Senior management style varies from up to what one might call "business casual" (some even wear ties more or less frequently) to Polo-style shirt casual. Almost never suits. For lower managers (me) it's pretty much just an unspoken "no t-shirts". I normally wear a button-down collar shirt with or without a sweater and jeans, occasionally khaki or solid-color pants. Steel-toe shoes that don't look like work boots, but probably wouldn't qualify as something you'd wear with a suit. Think 4th picture here.
So let's say my sense of what's appropriate to wear in a professional setting is skewed way towards casual. Now I'm visiting another organization on the East coast (which I feel like is different than West) and I don't want to insult anyone by being too "unprofessional" but I also don't want to look like a bumpkin in his Sunday best suit, overdressed. I also do not want to look like I'm trying to be GQ fashionable, just unremarkable.
The place is scientific/research and I'm meeting with the people who do the work, meaning this is not a senior manager-type meeting. They want to know how they can help us, I'm explaining some of the things from our wish list. I know "you can't go wrong with a suit" is a thing, but I kind of feel like a suit would be too much. Am I wrong? If you were the researchers, what would you expect me to show up in?
I work in an industrial environment. Senior management style varies from up to what one might call "business casual" (some even wear ties more or less frequently) to Polo-style shirt casual. Almost never suits. For lower managers (me) it's pretty much just an unspoken "no t-shirts". I normally wear a button-down collar shirt with or without a sweater and jeans, occasionally khaki or solid-color pants. Steel-toe shoes that don't look like work boots, but probably wouldn't qualify as something you'd wear with a suit. Think 4th picture here.
So let's say my sense of what's appropriate to wear in a professional setting is skewed way towards casual. Now I'm visiting another organization on the East coast (which I feel like is different than West) and I don't want to insult anyone by being too "unprofessional" but I also don't want to look like a bumpkin in his Sunday best suit, overdressed. I also do not want to look like I'm trying to be GQ fashionable, just unremarkable.
The place is scientific/research and I'm meeting with the people who do the work, meaning this is not a senior manager-type meeting. They want to know how they can help us, I'm explaining some of the things from our wish list. I know "you can't go wrong with a suit" is a thing, but I kind of feel like a suit would be too much. Am I wrong? If you were the researchers, what would you expect me to show up in?
I think you will be absolutely fine. For dudes, my expectation is jeans plus high quality shoes plus maybe a nice watch and a shirt with buttons and you're golden. Shirt with buttons can be swapped out for a sweater, but not a sweatshirt.
Meetings on day two, if there is a day two, everyone downgrades.
Context: east coast tech media
posted by A Terrible Llama at 3:56 PM on May 14, 2017
Meetings on day two, if there is a day two, everyone downgrades.
Context: east coast tech media
posted by A Terrible Llama at 3:56 PM on May 14, 2017
In my experience with researchers, they are very casual. Business casual would be dressed up for them. It sounds like your every day clothes would be fine -- except maybe no jeans. Are you going with a group of people from your workplace? Can you ask one of them who has done this before? It's awkward to ask, but I've been on both ends (the asker and the askee) and it was fine.
posted by OrangeDisk at 3:57 PM on May 14, 2017
posted by OrangeDisk at 3:57 PM on May 14, 2017
Oh, and everything should be ironed and you should shave--like shave that morning. Cut your nails--people notice hands.
Hair combed, smell nice i.e. you have used shampoo in the last twenty-four hours.
Middle-management dudeshow is super low stakes, but there are a few tells that reflect a little thought.
Personally, I think jeans are fine as long as they are accompanied by the accessories that say "I am a grown up and will not be skateboarding later today. Also: I own a wallet."
posted by A Terrible Llama at 3:59 PM on May 14, 2017
Hair combed, smell nice i.e. you have used shampoo in the last twenty-four hours.
Middle-management dudeshow is super low stakes, but there are a few tells that reflect a little thought.
Personally, I think jeans are fine as long as they are accompanied by the accessories that say "I am a grown up and will not be skateboarding later today. Also: I own a wallet."
posted by A Terrible Llama at 3:59 PM on May 14, 2017
I wouldn't do jeans the first day - wear khakis and a collared button down shirt. It's better to be a little too dressed up than a little too casual. After you've read the room, you can alter your outfit accordingly for the rest of the trip.
posted by something something at 4:05 PM on May 14, 2017
posted by something something at 4:05 PM on May 14, 2017
In the context you describe, I'd say either
Sportcoat, sweater, button down, jeans, loafers/oxfords
Or
Tie, button down, slacks, loafers/oxfords, sweater optional
Would convey the "I have made an effort to look put together but am not one of the Suits" vibe you seem to be going for. With the possible exception of the steel toed boots, what you normally wear seems like perfectly acceptable business casual. Seems like what you want here is to bump up the formality a touch without seeming like a try-hard, so I'd say making one or two elements more formal while keeping the rest business casual would convey that. Unless you're expecting to be doing fieldwork or visiting a plant or something, I'd definitely ditch the boots. To me at least they convey an air of practicality which would undercut any other formal elements of your outfit. Can't be dressed up and wearing shitkickers, you know?
posted by Diablevert at 4:08 PM on May 14, 2017
Sportcoat, sweater, button down, jeans, loafers/oxfords
Or
Tie, button down, slacks, loafers/oxfords, sweater optional
Would convey the "I have made an effort to look put together but am not one of the Suits" vibe you seem to be going for. With the possible exception of the steel toed boots, what you normally wear seems like perfectly acceptable business casual. Seems like what you want here is to bump up the formality a touch without seeming like a try-hard, so I'd say making one or two elements more formal while keeping the rest business casual would convey that. Unless you're expecting to be doing fieldwork or visiting a plant or something, I'd definitely ditch the boots. To me at least they convey an air of practicality which would undercut any other formal elements of your outfit. Can't be dressed up and wearing shitkickers, you know?
posted by Diablevert at 4:08 PM on May 14, 2017
I may be in a slightly different "scientific/research" field, but at my workplace a tie or a suit marks you as an impostor worthy of suspicion, but a sports-coat over your typical patterned dress shirt and jeans or casual pants signals "dressing slightly more formal than usual, 'cause you're meeting with important people." (A tie without a jacket is the equivalent of a propeller beanie as a status marker.) Nobody on either end of the formal spectrum feels offended if you show up in an open-collar, subtly-patterned shirt and a coordinated coat. And nobody's going to notice your pants or shoes if they're not day-glow orange.
If it were me, I'd dress like normal and then add a structured jacket that isn't shiny and isn't the same color as my pants.
posted by eotvos at 4:41 PM on May 14, 2017
If it were me, I'd dress like normal and then add a structured jacket that isn't shiny and isn't the same color as my pants.
posted by eotvos at 4:41 PM on May 14, 2017
Back when I was in the shipping industry (generally very casual, with the exception of the sales staff who wore suits) our visitors generally wore khakis, a button-down (long-sleeved) shirt, and a sports coat (generally, navy in color). I rarely saw visitors wear a tie, except for upper management.
posted by vignettist at 6:34 PM on May 14, 2017
posted by vignettist at 6:34 PM on May 14, 2017
It's fine to just call someone and ask. If there's an admin assistant involved, they'd be a good person to try.
If these are folks who do hands-on work in a lab or fabrication environment, they're likely not going to be more formal than a shirt and khakis - they're probably putting some sort of protective clothing on top of their clothes regularly (which gets hot) and/or work with chemicals that would ruin their clothes if spilled and/or machinery that could grab ties. They are probably on their feet a lot and wear comfortable shoes. (I am a scientist in a different field.)
What you usually wear sounds fine. If you top it off with a jacket, it's easy to take that off if you show up and feel overdressed.
posted by momus_window at 7:52 PM on May 14, 2017
If these are folks who do hands-on work in a lab or fabrication environment, they're likely not going to be more formal than a shirt and khakis - they're probably putting some sort of protective clothing on top of their clothes regularly (which gets hot) and/or work with chemicals that would ruin their clothes if spilled and/or machinery that could grab ties. They are probably on their feet a lot and wear comfortable shoes. (I am a scientist in a different field.)
What you usually wear sounds fine. If you top it off with a jacket, it's easy to take that off if you show up and feel overdressed.
posted by momus_window at 7:52 PM on May 14, 2017
East Coast is definitely a notch more formal than West Coast in most circumstances, but khakis/solid-color pants that are not jeans, and a button-down shirt will likely work just fine in this circumstance. If you can upgrade your shoes from the boots, that would be nice. Sweater or sports jacket optional on first day.
posted by desuetude at 7:53 PM on May 14, 2017
posted by desuetude at 7:53 PM on May 14, 2017
I like the Carhartt work pants as a nice in between jeans and dress pants, plus most of them now have a phone pocket.
You could see if there are any group photos on their web page that look like they just gathered up people spontaneously for the pic, these would give you a good idea of how people dress.
posted by 445supermag at 8:09 PM on May 14, 2017
You could see if there are any group photos on their web page that look like they just gathered up people spontaneously for the pic, these would give you a good idea of how people dress.
posted by 445supermag at 8:09 PM on May 14, 2017
A jacket* and a button down with no tie is a classy way to dress it up a little without going overboard.
A tie with no jacket* is an abomination that pretty much screams "Dilbert!"
*sport coat or blazer.
posted by yeolcoatl at 8:15 PM on May 14, 2017
A tie with no jacket* is an abomination that pretty much screams "Dilbert!"
*sport coat or blazer.
posted by yeolcoatl at 8:15 PM on May 14, 2017
"The place is scientific/research and I'm meeting with the people who do the work," - They are of your tribe. They appreciate outliers. They will value you for the words that come out of your mouth. They don't care how you look. You'll be fine.
posted by at at 10:11 PM on May 14, 2017
posted by at at 10:11 PM on May 14, 2017
scientific/research tends to be very casual. Your normal clothes sounds appropriate. I would go with a collared shirt (either a polo or button down) and not jeans on your first day, and you may be fine with jeans the rest of the week. when I travel for work in science/research I tend to dress a little nicer than the norm (no jeans). If I am giving a seminar or formal presentation I'd dress up a bit more (nicer shoes, jacket). If I'm there for several days working in the lab I'd switch back to jeans by day 3 or so.
posted by emd3737 at 11:52 PM on May 14, 2017
posted by emd3737 at 11:52 PM on May 14, 2017
I work in a science research environment on the East Coast and your regular clothes would fit in easily. We are basically also of the "just no t-shirt" variety, I dress very similar to your description minus the steel-toed shoes. I'd probably choose solid color pants over jeans to take it one step up. You may want to check in with the folks you're meeting if they have any dress requirements for the labs, if you're going to be going in. Depending on what they're doing, you may want your steel toes or not need them, but everything else you're likely to wear sounds like it will probably be fine. If you're going into a clean room and have facial hair or long untied hair, you may need to wear a hairnet over it. As someone who regularly has to give tour to people who are disappointed that they can't enter certain areas of the lab because of the particular formal clothing choices they made, I'd be very happy to share that info with a visitor.
posted by tchemgrrl at 6:50 AM on May 15, 2017
posted by tchemgrrl at 6:50 AM on May 15, 2017
I live on the East coast, work in an office. I think you should be fine dressing the way you dress for work already. Maybe bring a sportcoat if you're concerned. My experience is that businesses outside of finance and law have fully embraced business casual. But the "rules" are generally much more relaxed than they were 20 or 30 years ago.
posted by Cranialtorque at 7:45 AM on May 15, 2017
posted by Cranialtorque at 7:45 AM on May 15, 2017
Thanks everyone. I was already planning on buying real shoes - couldn't hurt to own them anyway - and I'm probably going to get a sport coat. It's going to be June in DC, so I'm thinking a sweater, even a light one, might not work out.
Piggyback question about the jacket, since I never see anyone wear one with any regularity - do you avoid wearing the same thing twice in a row, like a shirt, or is it more like a coat where that's perfectly normal? Get two and mix it up? Doesn't matter?
posted by ctmf at 6:42 PM on May 15, 2017
Piggyback question about the jacket, since I never see anyone wear one with any regularity - do you avoid wearing the same thing twice in a row, like a shirt, or is it more like a coat where that's perfectly normal? Get two and mix it up? Doesn't matter?
posted by ctmf at 6:42 PM on May 15, 2017
Among third-coast people who spend their days in labs, a coat is more like an umbrella than a shirt. One for a week long trip is plenty, unless you're a messy eater. (But don't take my word for it; every field is different.) Do save enough time to have the sleeves tailored to the right length. Good luck, and let us know how it works out.
posted by eotvos at 12:08 PM on May 16, 2017
posted by eotvos at 12:08 PM on May 16, 2017
> Piggyback question about the jacket, since I never see anyone wear one with any regularity - do you avoid wearing the same thing twice in a row, like a shirt, or is it more like a coat where that's perfectly normal? Get two and mix it up? Doesn't matter?
If you desire two because you enjoy wearing them and mixing it up, go forth.
No, no-one notices. It's not a faux pas to wear it two days in a row with a different shirt beneath.
posted by desuetude at 10:23 PM on May 16, 2017
If you desire two because you enjoy wearing them and mixing it up, go forth.
No, no-one notices. It's not a faux pas to wear it two days in a row with a different shirt beneath.
posted by desuetude at 10:23 PM on May 16, 2017
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by ctmf at 3:56 PM on May 14, 2017