I'm in a toxic work environment. How can I make this non-toxic?
March 23, 2016 9:27 AM
I had a really bad morning at work, being yelled at by my supervisor/co-worker over a few small mistakes. It's been building up. Any work-related advice would be helpful.
Remember Tim? I asked a question about him back in December and got some very useful and helpful answers, which I incorporated and put to use. I put aside frustrations I had about his personal hygiene/breath and even his approach sometimes.
Unfortunately, things hasn't improved. I could even say things had come to a breaking point. Over the past two or so weeks, Tim has became more brash, more stressed, more frustrated and angry. We both manage a system in which the campus sends a daily email to the campus, with various events/announcements shared campuswide. We both edit/approve of the submissions, but lately, I've been doing all the work, because Tim has been focused on getting a printed publication ready for distribution and seeming busy otherwise with other things. After some feedback Tim gave me, I have been paying more attention to grammar and headline errors.
However, last week, Tim sent me two emails, both with a list of errors I overlooked/made. His emails did not incorporate the "sandwich" method, which means starting off with positive feedback, then negative feedback, then closing with positive feedback (i.e., "dubious_dude, you're doing a good job at our email system! However, here's a few errors I caught/a few mistakes: (listing them) Be sure to look out for them next time, but keep the good work up!" Instead, his emails listed the errors, and said there were too many errors. It's really hard for me to keep up, due to many writing styles and the number of submissions we get per day. I tried to brush aside his direct feedback as him having many things on his plate, and paid even more attention to the submissions, taking extra care. I felt a bit hurt by his approach on email, because it was to-the-point and didn't acknowledge/recognize the hard work I did.
Unfortunately, today, it really came to a point when I entered my office, saying good morning to him, that he immediately started yelling at me. He said he found many mistakes on the morning's email, and listed them. I was taken aback by his approach and tried to explain my rationale behind the errors he explained (some of them were direct contractions of what he wanted in the past), but he talked over me and didn't give me a chance to explain myself. His expression was very strong and very angry-looking, and I felt very uncomfortable and intimidated. I apologized to him, saying that I tried my best and would continue to do so. "Well, you're a copywriter. You should know this," he snapped back at me. Wow. That really made me feel awful, made me feel like I didn't do a good enough job.
At that moment, near to tears, I disengaged, apologized, and went to my co-worker's office (who has been here for a long time, despite Tim and I), explained the situation and the other situations from last week, and explained that I am open to feedback and improvements, but his approach was too strong and too far. I really felt like he was putting me down, not treating me like a peer, an equal - we're all learning, and we all make mistakes.
My co-worker made a good point. She explained that the former boss (who was fired after my first question, linked above) was very hard on Tim about this email system, giving him harsh feedback and whatnot. Previously, when she (the co-worker) and a few others managed the email system, it was never really an issue. Big mistakes obviously were tended to, but other than that, it wasn't an issue. She said she would need time to think of a resolution of some kind between Tim and I.
This might seem a bit silly, but I'm still shaking from his approach and how he talked to me. I mean, I understand how important it is for details to be taken care of, and I really do try my best, but the mistakes he was talking about were small ones, like a missing comma here and there. Not big, glaring mistakes or contextual-based mistakes. If it was a huge mistake that would lead to a misunderstanding of some kind, I would be more understanding, but he was getting angry about a missing comma. It just feels like too much. I really do try my best. It's came to a point when I dread any email coming from him, dreading the inevitable criticism (and lack of positive reinforcement).
I really have tried and tried to be more careful and mindful about this email system and noticing/catching errors, but it can be a challenge. I also don't know how to defend myself and show I did a good job, which I really do (I've done alot of editing, cleaned up attachments, etc.), because of the comments Tim made ("you're a copywriter, you should know this"; "basic grammar mistakes"; "I'm here 10-11 hours and don't have time for this"). He's not here 10-11 hours, which I know for a fact. I feel like no matter what, I'm in the wrong.
I have talked with my therapist about this. She agrees his behavior was unacceptable and inappropriate for a workplace, and agreed this is a toxic environment for me. I feel nervous around Tim sometimes; he's kind of like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde - sometimes he's really nice and friendly, even fun to be with, but sometimes he's so rude and so harsh. He's not always clear on what's right/wrong, and I'm never sure if what I'm doing is exactly right - out of fear he will get mad or bent out of shape, like he did this morning.
"Quit." The thing is, I do love my job, other than this email system. This email system seems to cause Tim and I the most grief, but for context other than this email system, Tim's feedback is often helpful and he's not really that hard to work with. It's just this specific email system that causes such a conflict between us, and in general, he can be hard to talk to, even standoffish. I also want to keep this job so I can make qualifying student loan payments towards PSLF, should I get approved.
Sorry this post was such a jumbled mess, but I really feel overwhelmed and shaken up by his approach to me. He makes mistakes too! I've seen some grammatical mistakes from him. So, I don't understand why he harps on me so badly, and really - we're all adults here, but this morning, I felt like he treated me like a kid. Unacceptable in my book. In hindsight, I forgot I titled my previous question (linked above) as "toxic" - now I'm doing the same thing. As much as things change, the little...
What should I do to resolve this and bring back my power, while keeping a balance between helpful feedback and constructive criticism, and having Tim tone down a bit?
Thanks.
Remember Tim? I asked a question about him back in December and got some very useful and helpful answers, which I incorporated and put to use. I put aside frustrations I had about his personal hygiene/breath and even his approach sometimes.
Unfortunately, things hasn't improved. I could even say things had come to a breaking point. Over the past two or so weeks, Tim has became more brash, more stressed, more frustrated and angry. We both manage a system in which the campus sends a daily email to the campus, with various events/announcements shared campuswide. We both edit/approve of the submissions, but lately, I've been doing all the work, because Tim has been focused on getting a printed publication ready for distribution and seeming busy otherwise with other things. After some feedback Tim gave me, I have been paying more attention to grammar and headline errors.
However, last week, Tim sent me two emails, both with a list of errors I overlooked/made. His emails did not incorporate the "sandwich" method, which means starting off with positive feedback, then negative feedback, then closing with positive feedback (i.e., "dubious_dude, you're doing a good job at our email system! However, here's a few errors I caught/a few mistakes: (listing them) Be sure to look out for them next time, but keep the good work up!" Instead, his emails listed the errors, and said there were too many errors. It's really hard for me to keep up, due to many writing styles and the number of submissions we get per day. I tried to brush aside his direct feedback as him having many things on his plate, and paid even more attention to the submissions, taking extra care. I felt a bit hurt by his approach on email, because it was to-the-point and didn't acknowledge/recognize the hard work I did.
Unfortunately, today, it really came to a point when I entered my office, saying good morning to him, that he immediately started yelling at me. He said he found many mistakes on the morning's email, and listed them. I was taken aback by his approach and tried to explain my rationale behind the errors he explained (some of them were direct contractions of what he wanted in the past), but he talked over me and didn't give me a chance to explain myself. His expression was very strong and very angry-looking, and I felt very uncomfortable and intimidated. I apologized to him, saying that I tried my best and would continue to do so. "Well, you're a copywriter. You should know this," he snapped back at me. Wow. That really made me feel awful, made me feel like I didn't do a good enough job.
At that moment, near to tears, I disengaged, apologized, and went to my co-worker's office (who has been here for a long time, despite Tim and I), explained the situation and the other situations from last week, and explained that I am open to feedback and improvements, but his approach was too strong and too far. I really felt like he was putting me down, not treating me like a peer, an equal - we're all learning, and we all make mistakes.
My co-worker made a good point. She explained that the former boss (who was fired after my first question, linked above) was very hard on Tim about this email system, giving him harsh feedback and whatnot. Previously, when she (the co-worker) and a few others managed the email system, it was never really an issue. Big mistakes obviously were tended to, but other than that, it wasn't an issue. She said she would need time to think of a resolution of some kind between Tim and I.
This might seem a bit silly, but I'm still shaking from his approach and how he talked to me. I mean, I understand how important it is for details to be taken care of, and I really do try my best, but the mistakes he was talking about were small ones, like a missing comma here and there. Not big, glaring mistakes or contextual-based mistakes. If it was a huge mistake that would lead to a misunderstanding of some kind, I would be more understanding, but he was getting angry about a missing comma. It just feels like too much. I really do try my best. It's came to a point when I dread any email coming from him, dreading the inevitable criticism (and lack of positive reinforcement).
I really have tried and tried to be more careful and mindful about this email system and noticing/catching errors, but it can be a challenge. I also don't know how to defend myself and show I did a good job, which I really do (I've done alot of editing, cleaned up attachments, etc.), because of the comments Tim made ("you're a copywriter, you should know this"; "basic grammar mistakes"; "I'm here 10-11 hours and don't have time for this"). He's not here 10-11 hours, which I know for a fact. I feel like no matter what, I'm in the wrong.
I have talked with my therapist about this. She agrees his behavior was unacceptable and inappropriate for a workplace, and agreed this is a toxic environment for me. I feel nervous around Tim sometimes; he's kind of like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde - sometimes he's really nice and friendly, even fun to be with, but sometimes he's so rude and so harsh. He's not always clear on what's right/wrong, and I'm never sure if what I'm doing is exactly right - out of fear he will get mad or bent out of shape, like he did this morning.
"Quit." The thing is, I do love my job, other than this email system. This email system seems to cause Tim and I the most grief, but for context other than this email system, Tim's feedback is often helpful and he's not really that hard to work with. It's just this specific email system that causes such a conflict between us, and in general, he can be hard to talk to, even standoffish. I also want to keep this job so I can make qualifying student loan payments towards PSLF, should I get approved.
Sorry this post was such a jumbled mess, but I really feel overwhelmed and shaken up by his approach to me. He makes mistakes too! I've seen some grammatical mistakes from him. So, I don't understand why he harps on me so badly, and really - we're all adults here, but this morning, I felt like he treated me like a kid. Unacceptable in my book. In hindsight, I forgot I titled my previous question (linked above) as "toxic" - now I'm doing the same thing. As much as things change, the little...
What should I do to resolve this and bring back my power, while keeping a balance between helpful feedback and constructive criticism, and having Tim tone down a bit?
Thanks.
I agree that Tim's approach was unprofessional. That said, if your job is to proofread and then arrange the items in an email each day, you need to be doing it correctly.
That said, I'm the worst proofreader in the history of proofreading, on top of that, I can't spell. So, when it positively, absolutely HAS to be nearly perfect, I put everything into Word and run Spell and Grammar check on it. Is it 100% fool proof? Nope. But it's a LOT better than me fussing over it with my sad brain.
The other thing you note is that the email you received didn't include a compliment sandwich. That's not a reasonable thing to expect. Frankly, I appreciate an email that tells me what needs doing, without a lot of folderol. The compliment sandwich went the way of the do-do years ago, and don't let the door hit it on the ass on the way out.
If Tim does get shirty with you, you don't have to stand there and take it. You can say, "I'm not going to be yelled at. When you calm down we can discuss some strategies for making this better." Then leave.
If he continues to be abusive, report him to HR.
It seems that if you're working in the same university you attended as an undergrad, (Gallaudet IRRC) then you may still feel like an undergraduate who has expectations of a certain kind of respect and deference. I get it, and again, no one is saying you need to be anyone's punching bag, but at some point, it's time to put the big-boy pants on and deal with the fact that sometimes our mistakes frustrate our bosses, and if we're not taking steps to prevent those mistakes, then it is a problem and it's OUR problem, not our boss's.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 9:55 AM on March 23, 2016
That said, I'm the worst proofreader in the history of proofreading, on top of that, I can't spell. So, when it positively, absolutely HAS to be nearly perfect, I put everything into Word and run Spell and Grammar check on it. Is it 100% fool proof? Nope. But it's a LOT better than me fussing over it with my sad brain.
The other thing you note is that the email you received didn't include a compliment sandwich. That's not a reasonable thing to expect. Frankly, I appreciate an email that tells me what needs doing, without a lot of folderol. The compliment sandwich went the way of the do-do years ago, and don't let the door hit it on the ass on the way out.
If Tim does get shirty with you, you don't have to stand there and take it. You can say, "I'm not going to be yelled at. When you calm down we can discuss some strategies for making this better." Then leave.
If he continues to be abusive, report him to HR.
It seems that if you're working in the same university you attended as an undergrad, (Gallaudet IRRC) then you may still feel like an undergraduate who has expectations of a certain kind of respect and deference. I get it, and again, no one is saying you need to be anyone's punching bag, but at some point, it's time to put the big-boy pants on and deal with the fact that sometimes our mistakes frustrate our bosses, and if we're not taking steps to prevent those mistakes, then it is a problem and it's OUR problem, not our boss's.
posted by Ruthless Bunny at 9:55 AM on March 23, 2016
Yeah, I'm with Ruthless Bunny. You don't deserve to be treated poorly, but it sounds like you're making too many mistakes. Maybe these mistakes don't seem consequential to you - and maybe they really aren't consequential - but they are obviously important to Tim and you need to try a lot harder to reduce their frequency.
Expecting to receive all criticism via the "sandwich approach" is, frankly, completely ridiculous. Yes, everyone deserves to receive feedback in a respectful way. No, you are not entitled to receive all negative feedback wedged between two compliments.
posted by schroedingersgirl at 10:01 AM on March 23, 2016
Expecting to receive all criticism via the "sandwich approach" is, frankly, completely ridiculous. Yes, everyone deserves to receive feedback in a respectful way. No, you are not entitled to receive all negative feedback wedged between two compliments.
posted by schroedingersgirl at 10:01 AM on March 23, 2016
How are you going to assure you don't make mistakes in the future? If I had employees in your shoes (and I do, on occasion), I would want to hear what steps you are instituting in your workflow to prevent errors in the future, not just vague assertions that you're going to "try". Determine how errors happen and how you can prevent/catch them in the future. Things like: I am going to copy/paste each submission into a word processing document that will check for spelling errors, I am going to review each submission 3 times (upon receipt, during formatting, and once during final newsletter review), I will hold a weekly conference call with contributors to review their listings, I will send you the reviewed final draft of the submission by COB the day before we send it out for your signoff, etc. Acknowledging your errors and taking ownership of your workflow will give you power.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 10:11 AM on March 23, 2016
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 10:11 AM on March 23, 2016
If I were sending anything out campus-wide, I would make sure it got a second set of eyes - anything that I send out School-wide that is at all complex I ask someone to double-check. I think it's silly to say that something needs to be perfect every day but not have a double-check system in place.
If you have a boss of both of you, could you talk to that person? If you and Tim are both supposed to be working on this email, and you're hitting problems because it needs a second set of eyes, I think it's pretty poor management to let Tim cede all his work to you.
Spellcheck, etc, is also a good idea.
Also, can you make a template for the email? I do this for the one Really Big Deal item I produce.
Also, also: can you establish with your boss just what level of mistake rises to the "getting upset" level? Spelling errors seem bad to me; a missing comma or an extra space on a large daily email don't seem like a big deal.
posted by Frowner at 10:19 AM on March 23, 2016
If you have a boss of both of you, could you talk to that person? If you and Tim are both supposed to be working on this email, and you're hitting problems because it needs a second set of eyes, I think it's pretty poor management to let Tim cede all his work to you.
Spellcheck, etc, is also a good idea.
Also, can you make a template for the email? I do this for the one Really Big Deal item I produce.
Also, also: can you establish with your boss just what level of mistake rises to the "getting upset" level? Spelling errors seem bad to me; a missing comma or an extra space on a large daily email don't seem like a big deal.
posted by Frowner at 10:19 AM on March 23, 2016
Man, if we were both responsible for the daily email and the other guy was not helping and yet giving me crap about it? Guess what, Tim, I'm going to send you my final draft every day and it is now YOUR responsibility to proofread it and distribute it. You're welcome.
posted by cabingirl at 10:27 AM on March 23, 2016
posted by cabingirl at 10:27 AM on March 23, 2016
What you learn in a field where perfection in written work is the expectation (even if, to the delight of all, it often doesn't work out that way): no document of any length created and reviewed by only one person will be perfect. The human brain plays all kinds of tricks on us, filling in corrections where there are errors, inferring things from context which aren't actually there. If the work MUST be flawless, there MUST be a second pair of eyes on it. That's just a fact.
There are things you can do around the margins. You need to give yourself all the time in the world to review a draft every single time anything changes. You can try changing format: if you're reading the text on a screen, print it out and mark up from there, or vice versa. But this is tinkering around the margins. You need two pairs of eyes, or more.
If you're both responsible for writing/editing/approving this letter, that is probably why. You need to tell Tim that it's important for you both to review the email before it goes out because that is how errors get caught. See if you can help him in some way on the projects that are eating up his time, but otherwise you have to insist on having the resources you need to reach the standards you're being held to. (Perhaps an intern? A junior colleague?)
posted by praemunire at 10:45 AM on March 23, 2016
There are things you can do around the margins. You need to give yourself all the time in the world to review a draft every single time anything changes. You can try changing format: if you're reading the text on a screen, print it out and mark up from there, or vice versa. But this is tinkering around the margins. You need two pairs of eyes, or more.
If you're both responsible for writing/editing/approving this letter, that is probably why. You need to tell Tim that it's important for you both to review the email before it goes out because that is how errors get caught. See if you can help him in some way on the projects that are eating up his time, but otherwise you have to insist on having the resources you need to reach the standards you're being held to. (Perhaps an intern? A junior colleague?)
posted by praemunire at 10:45 AM on March 23, 2016
If you had any other job title or assignment, you could push back, but instead I would work on stepping it up and communicating with Tim.
Some ideas:
On your own time, address any weaknesses you might have with writing/editing.
In addition to Frowner's great suggestions, make a checklist of errors you frequently make and proof the copy for this one more time.
If there is not a style guide, keep a bulleted lists of preferences as specified by grand poobahs and put it on the main server (eliminates arbitrariness.)
TBH, most work places with something circulated to a wide audience had 2 editors. If resources are scarce, buddy up with a coworker, and you in turn help them,
Re: compliment sandwich. Don't ask for this, but if he is off the wall harsh and you can think of a clear alternative, once in a while, I've requested an alternative in email (ie, incorporated all changes....it would also help if requested changes did not have !!!!! After them but had periods or whatever.)
posted by Wolfster at 10:49 AM on March 23, 2016
Some ideas:
On your own time, address any weaknesses you might have with writing/editing.
In addition to Frowner's great suggestions, make a checklist of errors you frequently make and proof the copy for this one more time.
If there is not a style guide, keep a bulleted lists of preferences as specified by grand poobahs and put it on the main server (eliminates arbitrariness.)
TBH, most work places with something circulated to a wide audience had 2 editors. If resources are scarce, buddy up with a coworker, and you in turn help them,
Re: compliment sandwich. Don't ask for this, but if he is off the wall harsh and you can think of a clear alternative, once in a while, I've requested an alternative in email (ie, incorporated all changes....it would also help if requested changes did not have !!!!! After them but had periods or whatever.)
posted by Wolfster at 10:49 AM on March 23, 2016
I concur with some above folks about being uncomfortable with your shrugging off these mistakes. You can set your own standards for personal communication, but something going out to the entire organization? Mistakes there are significant, even minor ones, and if someone who worked for me were to convey to me that they didn't think those were a big deal I don't think they'd work for me for much longer.
Mistakes happen. You don't deserve to be abused over them, even if they're repeat mistakes or careless. But if you're conveying that you don't think they matter I think you're not going to do well in your career. Maybe you're just trying to find coping techniques for this uncomfortable situation, and I get that. But you'd do well to find a different strategy if so.
On the matter of he immediately started yelling at me. He said he found many mistakes on the morning's email, and listed them. I was taken aback by his approach and tried to explain my rationale behind the errors he explained (some of them were direct contractions of what he wanted in the past), but he talked over me and didn't give me a chance to explain myself.
You don't have to take that shit and shouldn't. I personally wouldn't take it from a boss. You certainly shouldn't take it from a peer. I am personally of the opinion that yelling never belongs in the workplace, which sadly is not a universal opinion. But you can pretty confidently say you're not going to be treated that way by a peer, particularly in a university environment.
The next time it happens you should immediately - don't wait for a break in the rant or even the end of the sentence - put your hand up in a stop position and say no. It is not okay to raise your voice to me this way. If Tim keeps going, walk away. Stand up from your chair if necessary and walk out of the office. State I will be glad to discuss this with you when you're able to speak more calmly. If he's the type to pursue you and keep ranting, walk into a coworker's office. Go where others will see his behavior.
And stop trying to deal with this all yourself. You have a superior. Involve them, even if it's just a "I do not deal well with being yelled at." You have an HR department. This is crossing the line into abuse, even if it's triggered by a work performance problem. Don't let it fester just because you're anxious about this being your first PR job.
posted by phearlez at 10:53 AM on March 23, 2016
Mistakes happen. You don't deserve to be abused over them, even if they're repeat mistakes or careless. But if you're conveying that you don't think they matter I think you're not going to do well in your career. Maybe you're just trying to find coping techniques for this uncomfortable situation, and I get that. But you'd do well to find a different strategy if so.
On the matter of he immediately started yelling at me. He said he found many mistakes on the morning's email, and listed them. I was taken aback by his approach and tried to explain my rationale behind the errors he explained (some of them were direct contractions of what he wanted in the past), but he talked over me and didn't give me a chance to explain myself.
You don't have to take that shit and shouldn't. I personally wouldn't take it from a boss. You certainly shouldn't take it from a peer. I am personally of the opinion that yelling never belongs in the workplace, which sadly is not a universal opinion. But you can pretty confidently say you're not going to be treated that way by a peer, particularly in a university environment.
The next time it happens you should immediately - don't wait for a break in the rant or even the end of the sentence - put your hand up in a stop position and say no. It is not okay to raise your voice to me this way. If Tim keeps going, walk away. Stand up from your chair if necessary and walk out of the office. State I will be glad to discuss this with you when you're able to speak more calmly. If he's the type to pursue you and keep ranting, walk into a coworker's office. Go where others will see his behavior.
And stop trying to deal with this all yourself. You have a superior. Involve them, even if it's just a "I do not deal well with being yelled at." You have an HR department. This is crossing the line into abuse, even if it's triggered by a work performance problem. Don't let it fester just because you're anxious about this being your first PR job.
posted by phearlez at 10:53 AM on March 23, 2016
Bring back your power by accepting the fact that a writer has to develop a thick skin and an eagle eye in order to stay on a regular payroll, and you have the ongoing (paying!) opportunity to develop both.
Work on your proofreading -- maybe even see if you can get a book or website recommendation from a composition professor, if there are patterns to what you're missing. If Tim is marking up your copy, accept what he gives you. Review it, and ask questions *after* you've reviewed it. Arguing mid-review of copy is usually counterproductive. Neither of you owe compliment sandwiches.
Others before me have given good advice about what to do if/when he flips out. Learn to separate the feedback from the behavior, and hopefully, eventually, so will he.
(You mention that the boss you had in your last question about Tim is no longer there. Are you getting a new boss? If you do, I'd talk to them about coming up with some sort of project management system -- Which Writer Does What seems to be the root of some of the ongoing problem.)
posted by gnomeloaf at 11:09 AM on March 23, 2016
Work on your proofreading -- maybe even see if you can get a book or website recommendation from a composition professor, if there are patterns to what you're missing. If Tim is marking up your copy, accept what he gives you. Review it, and ask questions *after* you've reviewed it. Arguing mid-review of copy is usually counterproductive. Neither of you owe compliment sandwiches.
Others before me have given good advice about what to do if/when he flips out. Learn to separate the feedback from the behavior, and hopefully, eventually, so will he.
(You mention that the boss you had in your last question about Tim is no longer there. Are you getting a new boss? If you do, I'd talk to them about coming up with some sort of project management system -- Which Writer Does What seems to be the root of some of the ongoing problem.)
posted by gnomeloaf at 11:09 AM on March 23, 2016
In your previous post you indicated that Tim was Senior Editor/Writer which leads me to believe that your title is Editor/Writer. Anyone with the word "Editor" in their title shouldn't be making this many mistakes or talking about a missing comma here or there as if it were no big deal. You need to step up and take some responsibility for the fact that you need to do better.
That said, yelling at someone is NEVER appropriate in the office. Unless someone is about to walk into serious danger yelling is not an option. Use the above advice on how to deal with the yelling.
The next step if the yelling isn't stopped and you can't handle it (and I don't believe you should just put up with it) is to leave. I know you don't want to but most people leave jobs because of their boss not because of their job or company, that is life unfortunately. But, at the next job you will still need to ensure that you aren't making the same mistakes.
posted by magnetsphere at 11:28 AM on March 23, 2016
That said, yelling at someone is NEVER appropriate in the office. Unless someone is about to walk into serious danger yelling is not an option. Use the above advice on how to deal with the yelling.
The next step if the yelling isn't stopped and you can't handle it (and I don't believe you should just put up with it) is to leave. I know you don't want to but most people leave jobs because of their boss not because of their job or company, that is life unfortunately. But, at the next job you will still need to ensure that you aren't making the same mistakes.
posted by magnetsphere at 11:28 AM on March 23, 2016
You can learn to shake off Tim's demeanor, but you can't shake off mistakes. That comma may be minor, but a missing comma can change the whole meaning of a sentence (ever read the book Eats, Shoots & Leaves?) and since you've been there almost a year, Tim might feel like he should be able to count on you to produce a polished product. If you're choosing the wrong words without knowing it, you send the wrong message. Even a "Tim and I" where it should be "Tim and me" can stick out.
I'm not Team Tim here, but it is frustrating when mistakes are made over and over again and you have the senior position and you can't get your coworker to step up. Sometimes frustrations bubble up and become yelling.
You get your power back by stopping the flow of mistakes you're making. You do what you have to do in order to do your job correctly. That may be taking more time on the emails, or asking for a second pair of eyes, or doing online proofreading tests to catch mistakes. Or all of the above.
Stop making mistakes. If Tim is still on your back yelling when your work is 100% perfect, then go the toxic job route.
posted by kimberussell at 11:46 AM on March 23, 2016
I'm not Team Tim here, but it is frustrating when mistakes are made over and over again and you have the senior position and you can't get your coworker to step up. Sometimes frustrations bubble up and become yelling.
You get your power back by stopping the flow of mistakes you're making. You do what you have to do in order to do your job correctly. That may be taking more time on the emails, or asking for a second pair of eyes, or doing online proofreading tests to catch mistakes. Or all of the above.
Stop making mistakes. If Tim is still on your back yelling when your work is 100% perfect, then go the toxic job route.
posted by kimberussell at 11:46 AM on March 23, 2016
Just a few points of clarification (and thanks so much for your insights so far!):
-Errors are definitely on a level as minor as missed commas (and those that do NOT make the context unclear). I have already always ran the posting through a spellcheck; that's a hard and fast rule for me. Some of the errors are ones that are unclear, such as adding quote marks for event/workshop names - Tim seems to be wishy-washy about this; initially, he said to add quote marks, but this morning, he said they weren't necessary. Not very clear. The content is clear and understandable, though. The email system is pretty casual as is, and again, it can be tricky (and time-consuming) to go through and edit so many different writing styles.
-Yes, it's supposed to be between both of us. Tim should check the postings before it's posted the next day, but so far, due to his schedule, what happens is that he checks the email postings (published) every morning and gives me feedback based on that. I agree with Frowner that it's not very efficient. There's only two of us in a copywriting/editorial position, though (with him being the senior writer), so he's stretched for time.
-It may not seem like it here (and I can't really show it here), but I HAVE been making more of an effort to catch any possible mistakes, and to avoid repeated mistakes as well.
-A template is a good idea; however, announcement/event items are always different, because it really depends on the department.
-In my previous job (retail), the sandwich style of feedback was always highly encouraged, so I didn't realize it went out of style a long time ago. Regardless, to clarify: I'm not expecting a sandwich style feedback every time. I do feel that Tim focuses too much on the negative and not the positive. Which leads me to...
-Believe it or not, I'm a perfectionist and I really do try my best to make each post clear and written properly, grammar-wise. I can't be perfect. Does that mean I expect to be treated as an undergraduate? No. I recognize that doing the best you can is important, BUT we're all humans and at the end of the day, a missed comma here and there IS inconsequential. Not many people will even notice it. Yes, sorry if my attitude seems flip - but that really isn't my intention here. It's just that, at the end of the day, there are much bigger things to worry about that are worth the heartburn (hyperbolic maybe, but starving children in Africa, diseases, and other bigger problems) not just a missed comma. (And, yes, trust me, I try my best to not miss any!)
As to the recent comment... wow. So we're not allowed to make mistakes? We're all humans and will eventually make mistakes - nothing is perfect. I have stepped up, believe me, I have. I really have tried to improve what I do. I'm so sorry if my comment sounds defensive or flip, but that really is not my intention.
posted by dubious_dude at 11:48 AM on March 23, 2016
-Errors are definitely on a level as minor as missed commas (and those that do NOT make the context unclear). I have already always ran the posting through a spellcheck; that's a hard and fast rule for me. Some of the errors are ones that are unclear, such as adding quote marks for event/workshop names - Tim seems to be wishy-washy about this; initially, he said to add quote marks, but this morning, he said they weren't necessary. Not very clear. The content is clear and understandable, though. The email system is pretty casual as is, and again, it can be tricky (and time-consuming) to go through and edit so many different writing styles.
-Yes, it's supposed to be between both of us. Tim should check the postings before it's posted the next day, but so far, due to his schedule, what happens is that he checks the email postings (published) every morning and gives me feedback based on that. I agree with Frowner that it's not very efficient. There's only two of us in a copywriting/editorial position, though (with him being the senior writer), so he's stretched for time.
-It may not seem like it here (and I can't really show it here), but I HAVE been making more of an effort to catch any possible mistakes, and to avoid repeated mistakes as well.
-A template is a good idea; however, announcement/event items are always different, because it really depends on the department.
-In my previous job (retail), the sandwich style of feedback was always highly encouraged, so I didn't realize it went out of style a long time ago. Regardless, to clarify: I'm not expecting a sandwich style feedback every time. I do feel that Tim focuses too much on the negative and not the positive. Which leads me to...
-Believe it or not, I'm a perfectionist and I really do try my best to make each post clear and written properly, grammar-wise. I can't be perfect. Does that mean I expect to be treated as an undergraduate? No. I recognize that doing the best you can is important, BUT we're all humans and at the end of the day, a missed comma here and there IS inconsequential. Not many people will even notice it. Yes, sorry if my attitude seems flip - but that really isn't my intention here. It's just that, at the end of the day, there are much bigger things to worry about that are worth the heartburn (hyperbolic maybe, but starving children in Africa, diseases, and other bigger problems) not just a missed comma. (And, yes, trust me, I try my best to not miss any!)
As to the recent comment... wow. So we're not allowed to make mistakes? We're all humans and will eventually make mistakes - nothing is perfect. I have stepped up, believe me, I have. I really have tried to improve what I do. I'm so sorry if my comment sounds defensive or flip, but that really is not my intention.
posted by dubious_dude at 11:48 AM on March 23, 2016
It's really hard to do well on this sort of thing when he keeps changing his mind: you spend so much time on the wishy washy stuff that you're more likely to miss the standard stuff. I'd document and anything he tells you as far as style (like a style guide as suggested above). Then when he changes his mind, ask for clarification: "Last week quotes were important for X, but not for Y this week. How can I document the difference correctly in the style guide?" That way if there is a difference he's not explaining well, he actually has to think it through and not just assume you know his unwritten rules.
posted by ghost phoneme at 12:02 PM on March 23, 2016
posted by ghost phoneme at 12:02 PM on March 23, 2016
I'm going to sound like a jerk here, apologies in advance, and I know this is the internet and all, but I can pick out grammatical errors and/or typos in every one of your posts.
If your job is to produce error-free or nearly error-free copy, you might want to treat it a little more seriously than "first-world problems." Or maybe find another job.
posted by WesterbergHigh at 12:05 PM on March 23, 2016
If your job is to produce error-free or nearly error-free copy, you might want to treat it a little more seriously than "first-world problems." Or maybe find another job.
posted by WesterbergHigh at 12:05 PM on March 23, 2016
Creating a style guide is a great idea- helps keep everyone on the same page. Great accomplishment to add to your resume, too.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 12:05 PM on March 23, 2016
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 12:05 PM on March 23, 2016
Unfortunately, things hasn't improved.
.
I have already always ran the posting through a spellcheck
I suggest you run postings through a grammar check, too. I say this not to snark at you, but to help you see that you are making avoidable mistakes, even here.
posted by Dolley at 12:06 PM on March 23, 2016
.
I have already always ran the posting through a spellcheck
I suggest you run postings through a grammar check, too. I say this not to snark at you, but to help you see that you are making avoidable mistakes, even here.
posted by Dolley at 12:06 PM on March 23, 2016
Okay, two technique things, no, three strike me here:
1. Tim being "supposed to" review it before it goes out and then reviewing it afterward and yelling is not okay. Gently take this to your mutual boss. Tim needs either to be totally relieved of this responsibility or to clear time in his schedule, because all that is happening right now is useless garbage yelling.
2. Document, document, document. Make a list of format things and get it okayed by Tim, so there's no more "Monday you wanted quotes and today you called me stupid and lazy for using them".
3. Can you get departments to change how they submit announcements? I actually have to do several cut-and-paste giant documents every year and they are a HUGE pain, very tricky because you're trying to eliminate everyone else's stylistic quirks. I really feel you on this.
Two possibilities: Do you have enough IT support to get an online submission form created? It should not be difficult, and it will solve about 50% of the format issues. Your IT person would create a blank for the title, a blank for the location, a blank for the date/time, etc. Each blank would come with instructions. This has helped with my biggest task.
Failing that, create a Word or fillable PDF form for departments to use and ONLY accept announcements on this form - it won't take but one or two "I am sending this back to you so you can add it to the form because we have had data loss from emails" before people get their acts together.
Obviously, you'd need to run these by the boss-of-bosses (not Tim) first. I know someone who uses the fillable form for assembling an abstract booklet and it works well for her.
Yes, you are supposed to be able to format/copy-edit correctly - a big part of that is being able to create mechanisms to help you do this. That's why people can't just semaphore you their announcements, and why we no longer use scraps of paper and chunks of graphite when preparing documents.
posted by Frowner at 12:10 PM on March 23, 2016
1. Tim being "supposed to" review it before it goes out and then reviewing it afterward and yelling is not okay. Gently take this to your mutual boss. Tim needs either to be totally relieved of this responsibility or to clear time in his schedule, because all that is happening right now is useless garbage yelling.
2. Document, document, document. Make a list of format things and get it okayed by Tim, so there's no more "Monday you wanted quotes and today you called me stupid and lazy for using them".
3. Can you get departments to change how they submit announcements? I actually have to do several cut-and-paste giant documents every year and they are a HUGE pain, very tricky because you're trying to eliminate everyone else's stylistic quirks. I really feel you on this.
Two possibilities: Do you have enough IT support to get an online submission form created? It should not be difficult, and it will solve about 50% of the format issues. Your IT person would create a blank for the title, a blank for the location, a blank for the date/time, etc. Each blank would come with instructions. This has helped with my biggest task.
Failing that, create a Word or fillable PDF form for departments to use and ONLY accept announcements on this form - it won't take but one or two "I am sending this back to you so you can add it to the form because we have had data loss from emails" before people get their acts together.
Obviously, you'd need to run these by the boss-of-bosses (not Tim) first. I know someone who uses the fillable form for assembling an abstract booklet and it works well for her.
Yes, you are supposed to be able to format/copy-edit correctly - a big part of that is being able to create mechanisms to help you do this. That's why people can't just semaphore you their announcements, and why we no longer use scraps of paper and chunks of graphite when preparing documents.
posted by Frowner at 12:10 PM on March 23, 2016
I'm an editor. I miss things all the time. We account for this by having multiple reviews, working with checklists, and having an internal style guide that answers questions like the one you mentioned about using quote marks. I really am a believer in using external tools to help make copy clean. Do you have a department style guide? If not, can you and Tim sit down and capture the known style issues in writing? That way, if the issue of the quotes comes up again, for example, you can point to something in writing that backs up your editing decision. Then, if an amendment or exception needs to be made, you can document that in the style guide. There's only so many rules you can hold in your brain.
If you don't work with a checklist now, perhaps you could create one? It could capture style for the various types of emails you craft (from technical details like font and spacing and email formatting to institutional conventions for capitalization to internal preferences for passive/active voice and tone) and also include checks for things you routinely miss (for example, if your style is to use serial commas and you sometimes miss this, you might add that to the list). The nice thing about a checklist is that it forces you to look over a text multiple times, using different parts of your brain and eyes as you check for certain issues. So my first pass might catch general grammar issues, but I might not notice that double period in the middle of the third paragraph. But hey! I have a check on my list that says to confirm that all sentences have appropriate punctuation, so when I do that scan I'm much more likely to see the error since I'm not also reading for grammar at the same time. I have a lot less anxiety as an editor (and a perfectionist) when I can rely on a checklist and a style guide.
posted by megancita at 12:11 PM on March 23, 2016
If you don't work with a checklist now, perhaps you could create one? It could capture style for the various types of emails you craft (from technical details like font and spacing and email formatting to institutional conventions for capitalization to internal preferences for passive/active voice and tone) and also include checks for things you routinely miss (for example, if your style is to use serial commas and you sometimes miss this, you might add that to the list). The nice thing about a checklist is that it forces you to look over a text multiple times, using different parts of your brain and eyes as you check for certain issues. So my first pass might catch general grammar issues, but I might not notice that double period in the middle of the third paragraph. But hey! I have a check on my list that says to confirm that all sentences have appropriate punctuation, so when I do that scan I'm much more likely to see the error since I'm not also reading for grammar at the same time. I have a lot less anxiety as an editor (and a perfectionist) when I can rely on a checklist and a style guide.
posted by megancita at 12:11 PM on March 23, 2016
On a more sympathetic note, i think that you're a little between a rock and a hard place. If people are sending you poorly formatted and proofread material, you need a longer lead time, and a second pair of eyes, if you want it to be error free. If they want a short turn around, by one person, there will be some small errors.
posted by mercredi at 12:29 PM on March 23, 2016
posted by mercredi at 12:29 PM on March 23, 2016
supervisor/co-worker
The way you keep referring to Tim this way, it appears you don't respect him, or even accept the basic fact that he is your supervisor.
I tried to brush aside his direct feedback
I am open to feedback
So which is it?
His emails did not incorporate the "sandwich" method, which means starting off with positive feedback, then negative feedback, then closing with positive feedback (i.e. "dubious_dude, you're doing a good job....")
Oh come on..... my guess is that he has repetitively told you about errors that you continue to make, and he's probably as tired of repeating himself as you are of hearing it yet again.
What should I do to resolve this.....
Try actually correcting your errors, instead of repeating them yet again. To be brutally honest, your approach to work sounds very lackadaisical, with that "starving children" bit. For example, you say you're a great copywriter, but there are basic grammatical errors in your post. (I'll give you one of them for free: in your ninth paragraph, "a lot" is two separate words, not "alot".)
posted by easily confused at 12:29 PM on March 23, 2016
The way you keep referring to Tim this way, it appears you don't respect him, or even accept the basic fact that he is your supervisor.
I tried to brush aside his direct feedback
I am open to feedback
So which is it?
His emails did not incorporate the "sandwich" method, which means starting off with positive feedback, then negative feedback, then closing with positive feedback (i.e. "dubious_dude, you're doing a good job....")
Oh come on..... my guess is that he has repetitively told you about errors that you continue to make, and he's probably as tired of repeating himself as you are of hearing it yet again.
What should I do to resolve this.....
Try actually correcting your errors, instead of repeating them yet again. To be brutally honest, your approach to work sounds very lackadaisical, with that "starving children" bit. For example, you say you're a great copywriter, but there are basic grammatical errors in your post. (I'll give you one of them for free: in your ninth paragraph, "a lot" is two separate words, not "alot".)
posted by easily confused at 12:29 PM on March 23, 2016
Mistakes happen, but you are an editor, and your job is to catch and correct errors. If your work product includes daily grammatical errors, then you should not be in this job function. Spellcheck and Grammarly are tools, but you also need to have a peer review your work if you aren't finding the mistakes yourself.
From your account, you make consistent errors and don't think that they are all that important. As a manager, I wouldn't be giving you the "Good Try" positive sandwich either. I wouldn't yell at you, but you aren't doing your job to the standard, and you should be getting very direct feedback.
Also, you are not peers if he is your supervisor. He is accountable for your work product. You can be colleagues or friends, but you are not equals. It seems as though you do not understand that his job is to supervise your work.
posted by 26.2 at 12:32 PM on March 23, 2016
From your account, you make consistent errors and don't think that they are all that important. As a manager, I wouldn't be giving you the "Good Try" positive sandwich either. I wouldn't yell at you, but you aren't doing your job to the standard, and you should be getting very direct feedback.
Also, you are not peers if he is your supervisor. He is accountable for your work product. You can be colleagues or friends, but you are not equals. It seems as though you do not understand that his job is to supervise your work.
posted by 26.2 at 12:32 PM on March 23, 2016
(I think it's worth looking at the OP's previous question in re Tim - this office does not seem well-managed and Tim's role isn't well-defined, plus Tim called a colleague a bitch, which does not fill me with Tim-related enthusiasm. I think it's likely that the OP is facing some editing challenges but they are exacerbated by Tim and bad management of the office generally.)
posted by Frowner at 12:34 PM on March 23, 2016
posted by Frowner at 12:34 PM on March 23, 2016
To easily confused, I wanted to clarify on two points you made:
The way you keep referring to Tim this way, it appears you don't respect him, or even accept the basic fact that he is your supervisor
No, the actual position isn't clear. He's referred to as a supervisor because he approves of time-off, but is he actually my supervisor, my boss? Will he do my reviews? This hasn't been determined yet. That's why I referred to him as my supervisor/co-worker, because of the uncertainty included.
So which is it?
When I said "brush aside his direct feedback", I can see where it can be read as me dismissing his feedback. What I meant was, I was brushing aside the tone of his feedback, not the actual feedback itself.
As for my writing style here, that's a separate thing - I write informally here, not like at work.
posted by dubious_dude at 12:35 PM on March 23, 2016
The way you keep referring to Tim this way, it appears you don't respect him, or even accept the basic fact that he is your supervisor
No, the actual position isn't clear. He's referred to as a supervisor because he approves of time-off, but is he actually my supervisor, my boss? Will he do my reviews? This hasn't been determined yet. That's why I referred to him as my supervisor/co-worker, because of the uncertainty included.
So which is it?
When I said "brush aside his direct feedback", I can see where it can be read as me dismissing his feedback. What I meant was, I was brushing aside the tone of his feedback, not the actual feedback itself.
As for my writing style here, that's a separate thing - I write informally here, not like at work.
posted by dubious_dude at 12:35 PM on March 23, 2016
No, the actual position isn't clear. He's referred to as a supervisor because he approves of time-off, but is he actually my supervisor, my boss? Will he do my reviews? This hasn't been determined yet. That's why I referred to him as my supervisor/co-worker, because of the uncertainty included.
Why hasn't this been clarified, per your last question?
posted by Karaage at 12:37 PM on March 23, 2016
Why hasn't this been clarified, per your last question?
posted by Karaage at 12:37 PM on March 23, 2016
Karaage - there was shakeup with our director being let go/fired, so right now, things are a bit uncertain.
posted by dubious_dude at 12:38 PM on March 23, 2016
posted by dubious_dude at 12:38 PM on March 23, 2016
I wouldn't call a missed comma "minor." If your job involves writing, editing, or proofreading, you should be paying attention to those commas. You're not getting paid to worry about starving children. And, yes, everyone makes mistakes, but your professional goal should be to minimize the number of mistakes you make, and learn from them. People who make too many mistakes, or who keep making the same mistakes over and over, lose their jobs. "Trying your best" only gets you so much goodwill.
Pay attention to the categories of mistakes you keep making, and be proactive in figuring out specific ways to solve them. Ambiguous or inconsistent rules? Write up a style guide and go over it with Tim. Do you review everything closely and still make mistakes? Change up your reviewing style: try a checklist of things to look for, highlight each sentence as you read it, etc.
I don't think anyone's defending Tim or his abrasiveness, and no one expects you to be flawless. But if you've made enough errors in the span of a week for him to email you two different lists, you have a good deal of room for improvement. If there's a conflict between an employee who excels and one who's constantly making mistakes, guess whose side management is inclined to take?
posted by Metroid Baby at 12:39 PM on March 23, 2016
Pay attention to the categories of mistakes you keep making, and be proactive in figuring out specific ways to solve them. Ambiguous or inconsistent rules? Write up a style guide and go over it with Tim. Do you review everything closely and still make mistakes? Change up your reviewing style: try a checklist of things to look for, highlight each sentence as you read it, etc.
I don't think anyone's defending Tim or his abrasiveness, and no one expects you to be flawless. But if you've made enough errors in the span of a week for him to email you two different lists, you have a good deal of room for improvement. If there's a conflict between an employee who excels and one who's constantly making mistakes, guess whose side management is inclined to take?
posted by Metroid Baby at 12:39 PM on March 23, 2016
Would it be possible to get a part-time interm or assistant to either do the email work and have you do the final run-through, or do the work and have the other person be your second set of eyes, or have them take on part of your responsibilities so you can focus on whatever it is you boss deems is most important for YOU to be doing?
Maybe you're making mistakes because you simply have too much on your plate - you did mention the brunt of the email stuff has been turned over to you. And yes, everyone does make mistakes, even copy editors. I do some of that myself in my work and can assure you no one is 100% all the time. I even catch the mistakes of the people that proof my work sometimes, and their job is to catch my mistakes! But if you're making excessive mistakes when it's part of your job to be catching mistakes, even though your boss is clearly acting like an asshole for the workplace, I would focus on improving your work. You may have too much to handle and not enough time to be as thorough and careful as you need to be, and maybe he's not aware of that.
posted by atinna at 12:41 PM on March 23, 2016
Maybe you're making mistakes because you simply have too much on your plate - you did mention the brunt of the email stuff has been turned over to you. And yes, everyone does make mistakes, even copy editors. I do some of that myself in my work and can assure you no one is 100% all the time. I even catch the mistakes of the people that proof my work sometimes, and their job is to catch my mistakes! But if you're making excessive mistakes when it's part of your job to be catching mistakes, even though your boss is clearly acting like an asshole for the workplace, I would focus on improving your work. You may have too much to handle and not enough time to be as thorough and careful as you need to be, and maybe he's not aware of that.
posted by atinna at 12:41 PM on March 23, 2016
Can you get a student worker? (At least here, the dept only pays about $2/hour of their total wage, with the rest covered by the university central, so they are quite affordable.) If you can, the student worker could easily:
1. Crudely format the department announcements (remove stylistic quirks, check to make sure all information is there, wrestle it into the general email format).
2. Be a second set of eyes. Give the student worker a checklist like the one suggested by megancita. Obviously, you shouldn't be expecting a student to sign off on a campus-wide document, but the student could very easily go through and check for, eg, extra commas. Especially if they had a style list you've gotten Tim to sign off on.
I feel like you have several different problems here that compound each other - it would be a lot easier to deal with solving your copy-editing challenges if you didn't have a yelly jerk with an uncertain title hanging over your head. If I were in your situation, I would be really gun-shy about working with Tim to get his (absolutely necessary) buy-in on stuff like the checklist and getting a second set of eyes.
posted by Frowner at 12:56 PM on March 23, 2016
1. Crudely format the department announcements (remove stylistic quirks, check to make sure all information is there, wrestle it into the general email format).
2. Be a second set of eyes. Give the student worker a checklist like the one suggested by megancita. Obviously, you shouldn't be expecting a student to sign off on a campus-wide document, but the student could very easily go through and check for, eg, extra commas. Especially if they had a style list you've gotten Tim to sign off on.
I feel like you have several different problems here that compound each other - it would be a lot easier to deal with solving your copy-editing challenges if you didn't have a yelly jerk with an uncertain title hanging over your head. If I were in your situation, I would be really gun-shy about working with Tim to get his (absolutely necessary) buy-in on stuff like the checklist and getting a second set of eyes.
posted by Frowner at 12:56 PM on March 23, 2016
Yelling at the workplace about mistakes is not okay.
That said, I think the "I deserve to be recognized because I'm 'making more of an effort' to catch mistakes" tone would wear thin on me as a supervisor if your job, as a copy editor, is to turn out error-free copy. "But I'm TRYING!" is not an answer to a list of errors in any job. Instead, change your processes (develop standard style sheet with Tim's buy-in to avoid conflicting instructions, have someone proof for you, change timelines around so Tim can review before, not after, publication). Misplaced commas may not feel like the end of the world, but in my profession, I would lose patience with someone who consistently had those kind of errors if I had made clear that they were not acceptable. When you are not in undergrad anymore, there is no try, there is only do.
posted by *s at 1:41 PM on March 23, 2016
That said, I think the "I deserve to be recognized because I'm 'making more of an effort' to catch mistakes" tone would wear thin on me as a supervisor if your job, as a copy editor, is to turn out error-free copy. "But I'm TRYING!" is not an answer to a list of errors in any job. Instead, change your processes (develop standard style sheet with Tim's buy-in to avoid conflicting instructions, have someone proof for you, change timelines around so Tim can review before, not after, publication). Misplaced commas may not feel like the end of the world, but in my profession, I would lose patience with someone who consistently had those kind of errors if I had made clear that they were not acceptable. When you are not in undergrad anymore, there is no try, there is only do.
posted by *s at 1:41 PM on March 23, 2016
I’m sorry this co-worker situation seems to be worsening. I assume that since this person’s role is not clear to you that it is not clear to him either, which can cause frustration on both sides. I don’t know what advice I can offer in that respect, but I want to reiterate some of the editing suggestions made above.
You need to create and maintain a style sheet and checklist for this newsletter. There shouldn’t be questions about whether certain titles get quotes, italics, or what-have-you; that choice should be on a style sheet for any other person working on the same document to reference as well as yourself. Your organization likely has an internal style guide to follow. If not, or in addition to that, you should have another reference work to default to, such as the Chicago Manual of Style, the AP Stylebook, etc. Having information such as audience, voice, heading levels, and even typeface on your style sheet will help pull together the various submissions from disparate authors into something more cohesive and easy to read.
A checklist is also a simple yet indispensable tool. I myself would often forget to check headings for consistency, double-check page numbering, and all kinds of other easy-to-miss issues without one. And of course both of these resources would make it easier for an intern or student employee to be able to jump in and assist, if that is a possibility.
I also keep a separate personal document (in my case, in blog form) for general mechanical and spelling issues that I need to repeatedly look up or reference: punctuation of Latin abbreviations, the proper sequence of cumulative adjectives, etc. Writing these out in blog post form not only allows me to be able to quickly search by tags and internalize the information, but it also serves as a quick reference for common mistakes that I can occasionally send as a link to my authors who make the same recurring mistakes (and who are amenable/open to grammar advice).
You may end up being more aghast at your own mistakes with more organization to your editing process, but at least you will likely become a much better editor, with the ability to back up your style choices. Good luck!
posted by obloquy at 2:18 PM on March 23, 2016
You need to create and maintain a style sheet and checklist for this newsletter. There shouldn’t be questions about whether certain titles get quotes, italics, or what-have-you; that choice should be on a style sheet for any other person working on the same document to reference as well as yourself. Your organization likely has an internal style guide to follow. If not, or in addition to that, you should have another reference work to default to, such as the Chicago Manual of Style, the AP Stylebook, etc. Having information such as audience, voice, heading levels, and even typeface on your style sheet will help pull together the various submissions from disparate authors into something more cohesive and easy to read.
A checklist is also a simple yet indispensable tool. I myself would often forget to check headings for consistency, double-check page numbering, and all kinds of other easy-to-miss issues without one. And of course both of these resources would make it easier for an intern or student employee to be able to jump in and assist, if that is a possibility.
I also keep a separate personal document (in my case, in blog form) for general mechanical and spelling issues that I need to repeatedly look up or reference: punctuation of Latin abbreviations, the proper sequence of cumulative adjectives, etc. Writing these out in blog post form not only allows me to be able to quickly search by tags and internalize the information, but it also serves as a quick reference for common mistakes that I can occasionally send as a link to my authors who make the same recurring mistakes (and who are amenable/open to grammar advice).
You may end up being more aghast at your own mistakes with more organization to your editing process, but at least you will likely become a much better editor, with the ability to back up your style choices. Good luck!
posted by obloquy at 2:18 PM on March 23, 2016
Let's not pick on dubious_dude's writing style on AskMeFi -- we aren't on duty here. I'm an editor, and I don't check my answers on here as thoroughly as I do for my day job.
posted by vickyverky at 2:19 PM on March 23, 2016
posted by vickyverky at 2:19 PM on March 23, 2016
Also, are you a copywriter or a copy editor, as some commenters are suggesting? Those are two very different things.
posted by vickyverky at 2:20 PM on March 23, 2016
posted by vickyverky at 2:20 PM on March 23, 2016
Copywriter.
posted by dubious_dude at 2:27 PM on March 23, 2016
posted by dubious_dude at 2:27 PM on March 23, 2016
I'm with everyone else here on one point for sure. Next time coworker/supervisor gets in your face, calmly, clearly, and forcefully, but not aggressively say "Do not yell at me." You don't need to say anything else, just repeat it if he gets more angry. I expect he will say something like "I wouldn't have to yell if you hadn't missed x or y!" To which you reply as above, without getting angry back.
The world is full of bastard bosses who yell, call you names, belittle you, etc. I am pretty strongly in the "grow a thicker skin" and "own your mistakes" crowd. So, you know, do that, too. But there is no way you have to be yelled at like you are a misbehaving child. If you can't get that through to knucklehead here, then take it to his boss, but only the yelling part.
Come up with a system to minimize your mistakes and own them. Don't take the criticism personally and don't let him intimidate you.
Even if he's right about the quality of your work, he doesn't get to be a bully.
posted by Ecgtheow at 3:44 PM on March 23, 2016
The world is full of bastard bosses who yell, call you names, belittle you, etc. I am pretty strongly in the "grow a thicker skin" and "own your mistakes" crowd. So, you know, do that, too. But there is no way you have to be yelled at like you are a misbehaving child. If you can't get that through to knucklehead here, then take it to his boss, but only the yelling part.
Come up with a system to minimize your mistakes and own them. Don't take the criticism personally and don't let him intimidate you.
Even if he's right about the quality of your work, he doesn't get to be a bully.
posted by Ecgtheow at 3:44 PM on March 23, 2016
Your boss sounds like he's not the most inspirational manager, but whether he sugar-coated his criticism of your work, the criticism still stands and that is what needs to be addressed. His tone may be harsh, but I've never had boss use "the sandwich method" or coddle me -- part of being the boss means being direct, which for someone who is a little more sensitive can come across as an attack. It's not an attack on you, it's a specific list of things he needs you to do as part of your job, and giving you this list is part of his job. I'd worry less about his tone (you can't do anything about and it's not personal) and more about what he is asking you to do.
So in terms of the mistakes, I get the sense that you are younger and starting out in your career, and a secret that took me a long time to learn is this: Your boss doesn't actually care about how quickly you can get something to him, all he cares about is that when it shows up, it is correct. As a young worker, I used to constantly feel pressured to turn things around right away and I'd always offer to turn in my work sooner than I had to -- but now I realize that was dumb. I am a manager now and all I want is the work I get to be perfect. I don't want to go back and do my employees' work for them. If I get something early but it has mistakes, I will still be pissed. So you should take some extra time and proofread your work. Create a checklist of your common mistakes and make sure you look for them before you submit work to your boss. If you and a co-worker have similar jobs and run into the same mistakes, maybe try a buddy system where you look at each other's work. (But this needs to work both ways, it can't turn into a co-worker fixing your work for you.) So... tl;dr Spend more time on doing your assignments and be more careful.
posted by AppleTurnover at 4:47 PM on March 23, 2016
So in terms of the mistakes, I get the sense that you are younger and starting out in your career, and a secret that took me a long time to learn is this: Your boss doesn't actually care about how quickly you can get something to him, all he cares about is that when it shows up, it is correct. As a young worker, I used to constantly feel pressured to turn things around right away and I'd always offer to turn in my work sooner than I had to -- but now I realize that was dumb. I am a manager now and all I want is the work I get to be perfect. I don't want to go back and do my employees' work for them. If I get something early but it has mistakes, I will still be pissed. So you should take some extra time and proofread your work. Create a checklist of your common mistakes and make sure you look for them before you submit work to your boss. If you and a co-worker have similar jobs and run into the same mistakes, maybe try a buddy system where you look at each other's work. (But this needs to work both ways, it can't turn into a co-worker fixing your work for you.) So... tl;dr Spend more time on doing your assignments and be more careful.
posted by AppleTurnover at 4:47 PM on March 23, 2016
One other thing re: people pointing out your writing mistakes here, and your response that you write more "informally" here. I'm a writer too and even though this isn't my job, I think you'll generally find that what I write is free of mistakes. I notice if I misspell a word or if I put a comma in a wrong spot, and then I fix it before I press "post answer." That's just how I write -- all the time. Email, message boards, Google chat, etc. So... maybe it would behoove you to develop some better writing practices and a more discerning eye on a regular basis?
You seem to brush off a mistake like a missing comma as small, but a couple of those "small" mistakes will make any copy look like a mess. If you are unable to identify these sorts of mistakes, even when you're trying, maybe copywriting is not the right career path for you? And I don't mean that in a rude or mean-spirited way at all -- one of the keys to being happy at your job is being able to succeed at it. Your whole question here is focused on Tim's tone and how he didn't give you what you feel is sufficient praise, but as far as I can tell, the only real issue here is whether you a) are trying hard enough to address your boss' complaints b) are capable of succeeding at addressing these complaints.
posted by AppleTurnover at 5:11 PM on March 23, 2016
You seem to brush off a mistake like a missing comma as small, but a couple of those "small" mistakes will make any copy look like a mess. If you are unable to identify these sorts of mistakes, even when you're trying, maybe copywriting is not the right career path for you? And I don't mean that in a rude or mean-spirited way at all -- one of the keys to being happy at your job is being able to succeed at it. Your whole question here is focused on Tim's tone and how he didn't give you what you feel is sufficient praise, but as far as I can tell, the only real issue here is whether you a) are trying hard enough to address your boss' complaints b) are capable of succeeding at addressing these complaints.
posted by AppleTurnover at 5:11 PM on March 23, 2016
Expanding on AppleTurnover's comment, another manager told that the reason he doesn't hire new college grads is that school grades give the wrong set of expectations. In school and 85% is a B - pretty good and far better than passing. In work, and 85% is a 15% defect rate which is pretty horrible. I think about that a lot when we have people join us fresh from undergrad.
I'm not sure if that's at play in your situation, but I think it might be considering how you're viewing mistakes and the positive sandwich thing.
posted by 26.2 at 6:05 PM on March 23, 2016
I'm not sure if that's at play in your situation, but I think it might be considering how you're viewing mistakes and the positive sandwich thing.
posted by 26.2 at 6:05 PM on March 23, 2016
On the one hand, yes, Tim is being an ass who shouldn't scream at you. You don't have control over how he reacts to things.
On the other hand, you are making a ton of mistakes. I don't care if they're small mistakes or not, even a misplaced comma or misspelled word is a problem FOR A COPYWRITER. Small mistakes all the time are not okay. You need to be impeccable. You can't just go "oops, but I'm trying hard!" No one cares if you are trying hard if it doesn't at all look like you're trying hard because you keep making errors. Especially since it sounds like you're doing it over and over again. You should know better by this point, and if you're genuinely just not good at fixing mistakes, copywriting may not be the job for you.
Look, I'm the one who does the proofreading where I work. My coworkers are supposed to be doing it with me, but they are awful at it. I wish I could yell at them sometimes, but I can't. (It's not worth it to say anything to them, it's not going to change at their ages and levels of vision.) I end up cleaning up their messes, and other people's messes, all the time. It's irritating. It's one thing to fix your own mistakes, it's quite another to always have to fix someone else's. I compare it to someone coming over, throwing up in my bed, going, "Oops, I made a mistake!" and then running away, leaving me to deal with a large amount of cleanup for something I didn't do. And my job is like that all the time. Like fifteen people throwing up in my bed and then going "Oops, I made a mistake!" I can't blame Tim for being pissed at you for this if you're doing it all the time.
Also, "the sandwich method" is not something that is actually done in real life with real adults. They don't have to coddle your feelings before they critique you. This probably won't happen on your yearly review when it happens either--especially if you really aren't doing anything all that great.
You can't help how Tim reacts to shit, but you can sure as hell try to give him a lot less to complain about. He can't shoot the gun at you if you don't give him the ammo.
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:07 PM on March 23, 2016
On the other hand, you are making a ton of mistakes. I don't care if they're small mistakes or not, even a misplaced comma or misspelled word is a problem FOR A COPYWRITER. Small mistakes all the time are not okay. You need to be impeccable. You can't just go "oops, but I'm trying hard!" No one cares if you are trying hard if it doesn't at all look like you're trying hard because you keep making errors. Especially since it sounds like you're doing it over and over again. You should know better by this point, and if you're genuinely just not good at fixing mistakes, copywriting may not be the job for you.
Look, I'm the one who does the proofreading where I work. My coworkers are supposed to be doing it with me, but they are awful at it. I wish I could yell at them sometimes, but I can't. (It's not worth it to say anything to them, it's not going to change at their ages and levels of vision.) I end up cleaning up their messes, and other people's messes, all the time. It's irritating. It's one thing to fix your own mistakes, it's quite another to always have to fix someone else's. I compare it to someone coming over, throwing up in my bed, going, "Oops, I made a mistake!" and then running away, leaving me to deal with a large amount of cleanup for something I didn't do. And my job is like that all the time. Like fifteen people throwing up in my bed and then going "Oops, I made a mistake!" I can't blame Tim for being pissed at you for this if you're doing it all the time.
Also, "the sandwich method" is not something that is actually done in real life with real adults. They don't have to coddle your feelings before they critique you. This probably won't happen on your yearly review when it happens either--especially if you really aren't doing anything all that great.
You can't help how Tim reacts to shit, but you can sure as hell try to give him a lot less to complain about. He can't shoot the gun at you if you don't give him the ammo.
posted by jenfullmoon at 6:07 PM on March 23, 2016
If your boss is sending back a list of mistakes that you're making, then I'm sorry, you're not doing your job well. I say that as a copywriter. Where I've worked, if a piece of copy went out with errors, we could easily lose a multi million dollar client. So all communication is checked multiple times, or it's my job and my agency's reputation.
And here's a tip, don't rely on spellcheck alone, believe it or not, spellcheck makes mistakes as well. Run it through, for sure, but then you check, check, check again and then if you must, get someone else to check. If you have a grammar question, ask a colleague or your boss.
Look, all of us make mistakes but if your writing is riddled with them, it's cause for concern. This is what you do for a living and you were hired because you're supposed to be an expert. Take this feedback seriously, regardless of how it is presented by your boss. I know I would be very concerned to be getting it in your shoes.
posted by Jubey at 6:17 PM on March 23, 2016
And here's a tip, don't rely on spellcheck alone, believe it or not, spellcheck makes mistakes as well. Run it through, for sure, but then you check, check, check again and then if you must, get someone else to check. If you have a grammar question, ask a colleague or your boss.
Look, all of us make mistakes but if your writing is riddled with them, it's cause for concern. This is what you do for a living and you were hired because you're supposed to be an expert. Take this feedback seriously, regardless of how it is presented by your boss. I know I would be very concerned to be getting it in your shoes.
posted by Jubey at 6:17 PM on March 23, 2016
As an example of how stringent ad agencies are with writing - when I have been pulled up on copy by my boss, it's involved a friendly debate with five writers as to whether or not the grammar was correct, only for us to formally check it and find out that either way was acceptable. That's how fine the line should be.
posted by Jubey at 6:24 PM on March 23, 2016
posted by Jubey at 6:24 PM on March 23, 2016
I think the style guide is a great idea. The moving goalposts you describe re: quotation marks and the like would be very difficult to me as a writer. Best to firm those up so you have documentation to back up your choices. Maybe Google some topics that should be covered -- Oxford commas, capitalization norms for titles, and the like.
Once Tim has agreed to the guide, use it as a checklist for your writing, as others have mentioned.
posted by delight at 6:33 PM on March 23, 2016
Once Tim has agreed to the guide, use it as a checklist for your writing, as others have mentioned.
posted by delight at 6:33 PM on March 23, 2016
Also, I'm really sorry to hear about the yelling. Being chastised at work just sucks, no matter what form it takes, and that sounds especially rough. Sending you good thoughts.
posted by delight at 6:34 PM on March 23, 2016
posted by delight at 6:34 PM on March 23, 2016
It feels to me like you need to be more assertive, as a lot of the posts here are getting at. I won't expand too much on what's already been said, except to suggest one tactic that my dad used a lot during his days as an attorney. First, I should warn you that it is absolutely INFURIATING to the other party, and in situations lacking the rules of procedure and decorum present in legal proceedings could worsen things. I've used this before, but after the first time I get interrupted I warn the other person how it's going to work if they do it again.
As soon as someone interrupts you, stop talking, let them finish, and then restart the sentence you were saying before they interrupted you. Repeat as necessary.
This really serves as a way to brute-force your way into control of the conversation. The other person can of course disengage, but then suddenly they're being petty. The downside, of course, is that it's a pretty blunt object that can backfire (Tim would yell at me for the mixed metaphor, I think).
Best of luck with everything.
posted by dondiego87 at 7:49 PM on March 23, 2016
As soon as someone interrupts you, stop talking, let them finish, and then restart the sentence you were saying before they interrupted you. Repeat as necessary.
This really serves as a way to brute-force your way into control of the conversation. The other person can of course disengage, but then suddenly they're being petty. The downside, of course, is that it's a pretty blunt object that can backfire (Tim would yell at me for the mixed metaphor, I think).
Best of luck with everything.
posted by dondiego87 at 7:49 PM on March 23, 2016
Despite what you might think, commas matter:
Cooking
Grandma
(You want an example of picky? I've been called out for not putting periods at the end of bullet points on my reports. I don't agree, but it's the house style, so I've sucked it up and now make sure I do it.)
Abuse by your supervisor / senior copywriter is not acceptable. Report it when it happens. But sloppy work on your part is also not acceptable.
posted by finding.perdita at 2:59 AM on March 24, 2016
Cooking
Grandma
(You want an example of picky? I've been called out for not putting periods at the end of bullet points on my reports. I don't agree, but it's the house style, so I've sucked it up and now make sure I do it.)
Abuse by your supervisor / senior copywriter is not acceptable. Report it when it happens. But sloppy work on your part is also not acceptable.
posted by finding.perdita at 2:59 AM on March 24, 2016
I had a job shortly after college that was not dissimilar to this. I wasn't working as a copywriter but I was working for someone who had never managed before. I made some mistakes in my first few days and rather than provide constructive criticism, the manager berated me terribly. Over the course of the next three months, I tried my best to correct my errors, but every time I would correct those errors, my boss would find other reasons to berate me harshly that we ended up in a feedback loop of my boss just expecting me to fail, me being stressed out about failing, and so in the end, I WOULD fail. It was an equally toxic situation to this one. But it being my first job, I didn't know that THIS WAS NOT NORMAL.
It got so terrible that I would cry over the phone to my then-boyfriend-now-husband, and it finally clicked when he said, "I've never seen you get so caught up in putting your entire self-worth into something. It's just a job." And eventually, through the excuse of one final epic failure, I was let go.
And then I got the job I have now that I've been in for over 10 years where from the beginning, I was expected to do well and succeed, and my immediate supervisors provided me with adequate training, praise for when I was doing well, and MEANINGFUL criticism when I didn't that I could actually turn into actionable improvements.
What this sounds like to me is that you are in a similar feedback loop where your boss expects you to fail, you expect your boss to expect you fail, and due to that expectation and the stress surrounding it, your cautiousness in trying to do better is leading you to do worse. These situations can get very myopic.
The best way to break out of it is to break the feedback loop. For me, that meant getting out of the job and away from those people.
posted by zizzle at 7:53 AM on March 24, 2016
It got so terrible that I would cry over the phone to my then-boyfriend-now-husband, and it finally clicked when he said, "I've never seen you get so caught up in putting your entire self-worth into something. It's just a job." And eventually, through the excuse of one final epic failure, I was let go.
And then I got the job I have now that I've been in for over 10 years where from the beginning, I was expected to do well and succeed, and my immediate supervisors provided me with adequate training, praise for when I was doing well, and MEANINGFUL criticism when I didn't that I could actually turn into actionable improvements.
What this sounds like to me is that you are in a similar feedback loop where your boss expects you to fail, you expect your boss to expect you fail, and due to that expectation and the stress surrounding it, your cautiousness in trying to do better is leading you to do worse. These situations can get very myopic.
The best way to break out of it is to break the feedback loop. For me, that meant getting out of the job and away from those people.
posted by zizzle at 7:53 AM on March 24, 2016
There is some really good advice in this thread that I agree with, so I won't repeat any of it. One suggestion I do have: This is a university. Get a student intern to be another, "third" set of eyes to check over the mailing every day. If your institution has a PR major, it is so easy. If not, get an English major, or a communications major. Or branch out and get an IT student to check it for you. Students in any of these majors will be absolutely delighted to find a small internship on-campus that produces an important product. Also, proactively manage the event submissions by creating an online form that streamlines the process and covertly guides them to write in the house style.
posted by seasparrow at 10:15 AM on March 24, 2016
posted by seasparrow at 10:15 AM on March 24, 2016
Believe it or not, I'm a perfectionist and I really do try my best to make each post clear and written properly, grammar-wise. I can't be perfect. Does that mean I expect to be treated as an undergraduate? No. I recognize that doing the best you can is important, BUT we're all humans and at the end of the day, a missed comma here and there IS inconsequential. Not many people will even notice it. Yes, sorry if my attitude seems flip - but that really isn't my intention here. It's just that, at the end of the day, there are much bigger things to worry about that are worth the heartburn (hyperbolic maybe, but starving children in Africa, diseases, and other bigger problems) not just a missed comma. (And, yes, trust me, I try my best to not miss any!)
You can be as flip as you like with us, though I would suggest that maybe you're not getting real value out of this posting if you're going to repeatedly shrug off our feedback on this.
But what I'd suggest you ask yourself is this: are you giving Tim - and perhaps other people - the same eh, whatever sort of vibe that you're clearly giving so many people here? Because that may be a part of this situation. Based on what you're communicating to us, when you say believe it or not, I'm a perfectionist my response is well no, actually I do not believe it based on your interaction and comments here so far. It's not a sense I get from you. So it's worth wondering whether or not that's the situation at work too. Do they think you're not taking this seriously or setting a sufficiently high bar? Because if so that may be part of the problem.
Which, again, a big part of this issue is Tim's very much inappropriate behavior. It's not okay and nothing you do would make it acceptable for him to be abusive. But his lack of proper professional boundaries is to some extent beyond anyone's control but his own. Making sure you're doing your part to set the right tone is within your control. You need to both communicate this is not an acceptable way to interact with me tone and also make sure you're setting the doing this job right is important to me as well. Being in communications you should be well aware that it's not enough for it to just be true, you need to make sure that it's understood by others beyond yourself.
Your workplace situation with regards to superiors is unclear to you; it is probably unclear to Tim as well. He may be in a situation where people are looking to him to be a boss without actually being a boss; accountable for your output but with no real authority over you except what he asserts and no pay to reflect that. Perhaps that's informal, with just people he know saying "yo Tim, how come the daily looks sloppier than it used to?" Or perhaps someone a few levels up the chain has said something to him.
So if he's freaked out about being on the hook for stuff and thinks you're not serious about it... he should be better, no question. But it's in your interest to make it easier for him to be better even if you shouldn't have to. So you can pincher him on this by both refusing to allow the inappropriateness and making sure he knows you're serious about shouldering your responsibility. That might mean both biting your tongue about how you view this in the scope of the world's problems and helping to come up with firm specifications/style guides and metrics for success. Both for you - X will always be quoted, Y will always be italicized - and for him - this will be examined by 830a before a 9am send.
So when something does come up, and you force him to have the conversation at a normal conversational tone, you can say no, we agreed here in this guide that this would be this way or you're right and i apologize, but a proof to catch this sort of typo is the reason we were supposed to be doing verification with a second set of eyes. That's not going to fly very well if it give the sense - false or otherwise - that it only exists as a way for you to minimize the importance of problems. But you're going to be on firmer ground to demand a functional and professional organization if you make sure your side of the deal is all ship-shape.
posted by phearlez at 11:13 AM on March 24, 2016
You can be as flip as you like with us, though I would suggest that maybe you're not getting real value out of this posting if you're going to repeatedly shrug off our feedback on this.
But what I'd suggest you ask yourself is this: are you giving Tim - and perhaps other people - the same eh, whatever sort of vibe that you're clearly giving so many people here? Because that may be a part of this situation. Based on what you're communicating to us, when you say believe it or not, I'm a perfectionist my response is well no, actually I do not believe it based on your interaction and comments here so far. It's not a sense I get from you. So it's worth wondering whether or not that's the situation at work too. Do they think you're not taking this seriously or setting a sufficiently high bar? Because if so that may be part of the problem.
Which, again, a big part of this issue is Tim's very much inappropriate behavior. It's not okay and nothing you do would make it acceptable for him to be abusive. But his lack of proper professional boundaries is to some extent beyond anyone's control but his own. Making sure you're doing your part to set the right tone is within your control. You need to both communicate this is not an acceptable way to interact with me tone and also make sure you're setting the doing this job right is important to me as well. Being in communications you should be well aware that it's not enough for it to just be true, you need to make sure that it's understood by others beyond yourself.
Your workplace situation with regards to superiors is unclear to you; it is probably unclear to Tim as well. He may be in a situation where people are looking to him to be a boss without actually being a boss; accountable for your output but with no real authority over you except what he asserts and no pay to reflect that. Perhaps that's informal, with just people he know saying "yo Tim, how come the daily looks sloppier than it used to?" Or perhaps someone a few levels up the chain has said something to him.
So if he's freaked out about being on the hook for stuff and thinks you're not serious about it... he should be better, no question. But it's in your interest to make it easier for him to be better even if you shouldn't have to. So you can pincher him on this by both refusing to allow the inappropriateness and making sure he knows you're serious about shouldering your responsibility. That might mean both biting your tongue about how you view this in the scope of the world's problems and helping to come up with firm specifications/style guides and metrics for success. Both for you - X will always be quoted, Y will always be italicized - and for him - this will be examined by 830a before a 9am send.
So when something does come up, and you force him to have the conversation at a normal conversational tone, you can say no, we agreed here in this guide that this would be this way or you're right and i apologize, but a proof to catch this sort of typo is the reason we were supposed to be doing verification with a second set of eyes. That's not going to fly very well if it give the sense - false or otherwise - that it only exists as a way for you to minimize the importance of problems. But you're going to be on firmer ground to demand a functional and professional organization if you make sure your side of the deal is all ship-shape.
posted by phearlez at 11:13 AM on March 24, 2016
I'm sorry you're going through this. I went through a similar thing years ago in a job I had. I'm in a completely different career but I had to write lots of letters in which the wording and content was so similar from letter to letter that I fully memorized what I had to write. As a result, I would miss typos and other little errors when I proofread because my mind would see the words as they should have been rather than how they actually were.
I also have this hyperfocus thing (which may be due to my ADD, and at the time I was not on medication) where I would be so intently focused on one aspect of the letter, e.g. obsessively checking and rechecking to make sure I had typed in numbers and performed calculations correctly, that I would completely forget to check other, more basic things like whether or not the address in the letter was current and correct. It frustrated me to tears because my boss mentioned it multiple times and I literally did not know what to do to help myself improve. I mean, if I proofread a document and my mind is filling in the words as they should be, how am I supposed to catch errors? I also was dealing with anxiety/depression at the time, which made it harder for me to cope with all of it when my brain was shouting at me YOU'RE AN IDIOT AND A FAILURE AND YOU'LL NEVER AMOUNT TO ANYTHING pretty much 24/7.
There were two things the helped me immensely. The first was using a checklist, as a few people have mentioned. This reminded me of everything I needed to check (e.g. addresses) so I wouldn't forget any of them in my focus on other things.
The second was when I would proofread, I would turn the letter upside-down and read it from beginning to end. This forced my eyes to slow down and not skim as well as forcing my brain to work harder to understand the words, which made it much easier to spot typos and other small errors.
Good luck. I know how hard it can be to take criticism when it feels so personal (DO I EVER), but you can do this. Go slow, find a system that works well for you and try to separate out the legit areas where you can improve from the things he's saying/doing that feel personal and awful, as these will only stress you out and make it much harder to do your job.
posted by triggerfinger at 12:19 PM on March 24, 2016
I also have this hyperfocus thing (which may be due to my ADD, and at the time I was not on medication) where I would be so intently focused on one aspect of the letter, e.g. obsessively checking and rechecking to make sure I had typed in numbers and performed calculations correctly, that I would completely forget to check other, more basic things like whether or not the address in the letter was current and correct. It frustrated me to tears because my boss mentioned it multiple times and I literally did not know what to do to help myself improve. I mean, if I proofread a document and my mind is filling in the words as they should be, how am I supposed to catch errors? I also was dealing with anxiety/depression at the time, which made it harder for me to cope with all of it when my brain was shouting at me YOU'RE AN IDIOT AND A FAILURE AND YOU'LL NEVER AMOUNT TO ANYTHING pretty much 24/7.
There were two things the helped me immensely. The first was using a checklist, as a few people have mentioned. This reminded me of everything I needed to check (e.g. addresses) so I wouldn't forget any of them in my focus on other things.
The second was when I would proofread, I would turn the letter upside-down and read it from beginning to end. This forced my eyes to slow down and not skim as well as forcing my brain to work harder to understand the words, which made it much easier to spot typos and other small errors.
Good luck. I know how hard it can be to take criticism when it feels so personal (DO I EVER), but you can do this. Go slow, find a system that works well for you and try to separate out the legit areas where you can improve from the things he's saying/doing that feel personal and awful, as these will only stress you out and make it much harder to do your job.
posted by triggerfinger at 12:19 PM on March 24, 2016
« Older He stopped talking to me abruptly and with no... | Looking for Info on Secession and Inspiration from... Newer »
This thread is closed to new comments.
What I would do, based on the assumption that either Tim or I is going to go sooner rather than later, is put my foot down. "Tim, we're not going to do this anymore. Mistakes are going to happen, and we just have to accept that either we have to have a certain amount of tolerance for them, or we need to hire at least one if not two editors for it to go through before publication. Nobody seems to think this is important enough to spend that kind of money on, so it is what it is. If you continue to nitpick and yell at me about it, I'm going to escalate. Going forward, I'm not going to respond unless there's an error that requires issuing a correction, because the amount of stress this is generating is making the situation worse. I'm sorry this is such a pain point for you, but I am not going to be a punching bag for your anxiety about it."
And the thing is, he may very well continue to do it. You will have to hold up your end of the bargain and give it the respect it deserves: none. If you can't live with Tim, and you can't get rid of Tim, your only option is to leave. It's unfair, but you are not guaranteed fairness in this world, so stop waiting around for something magical to happen.
posted by Lyn Never at 9:45 AM on March 23, 2016