How do Canadian cooks measure?
March 16, 2016 2:14 PM Subscribe
How do Canadian home cooks measure in the kitchen and at the grocery store, with respect to metric vs. imperial units?
I am not moving to Canada any time soon so this is out of sheer curiosity. Having just received a Canadian-published cookbook that uses entirely imperial measurements, but also knowing that metrication in Canada is way more advanced than south of the border where I am, I'm wondering what the situation is for Canadian home cooks. ("Home" cooks because I know that professional kitchens may differ.) I'm specifically wanting to know about the following things but also open to general observations:
- Are most cookbooks metric or imperial? This question implies they're mostly imperial but wondering if anything has changed.
- Would Canadian cooks measure things like flour or sugar by weight or volume? And by extension, how common are kitchen scales?
- Are packaged goods in Canada dual-labeled (in imperial and metric) and if so, do they tend to be "hard metric" (e.g., a 500 g/1 lb 1½ oz package) or "soft metric" (a 454 g/1 lb) package? And is loose produce or meat weighed/sold in metric units?
- As metrication was within many people's lifetimes, is this one of those things that differs by age? Is metrication more consistently done in Quebec?
- My old Canadian roommate once told me in the same breath that it was a balmy 20 degrees out and to turn the oven to 375 because he wanted to roast vegetables, which I thought was fascinating for the use of Celsius and Fahrenheit in the same sentence (it was April in Boston, so it was definitely 20C/68F out). What's up with that?
I apologize if I'm giving off any "dumb American" vibes but I've never cooked in Canada and am genuinely just curious! I've read this but details are scant.
I am not moving to Canada any time soon so this is out of sheer curiosity. Having just received a Canadian-published cookbook that uses entirely imperial measurements, but also knowing that metrication in Canada is way more advanced than south of the border where I am, I'm wondering what the situation is for Canadian home cooks. ("Home" cooks because I know that professional kitchens may differ.) I'm specifically wanting to know about the following things but also open to general observations:
- Are most cookbooks metric or imperial? This question implies they're mostly imperial but wondering if anything has changed.
- Would Canadian cooks measure things like flour or sugar by weight or volume? And by extension, how common are kitchen scales?
- Are packaged goods in Canada dual-labeled (in imperial and metric) and if so, do they tend to be "hard metric" (e.g., a 500 g/1 lb 1½ oz package) or "soft metric" (a 454 g/1 lb) package? And is loose produce or meat weighed/sold in metric units?
- As metrication was within many people's lifetimes, is this one of those things that differs by age? Is metrication more consistently done in Quebec?
- My old Canadian roommate once told me in the same breath that it was a balmy 20 degrees out and to turn the oven to 375 because he wanted to roast vegetables, which I thought was fascinating for the use of Celsius and Fahrenheit in the same sentence (it was April in Boston, so it was definitely 20C/68F out). What's up with that?
I apologize if I'm giving off any "dumb American" vibes but I've never cooked in Canada and am genuinely just curious! I've read this but details are scant.
We tend to go back and forth all the time with measurements. I would say most people use volume measurements for cooking, though I think using kitchen scales is becoming more common. In my experience we spend a lot of time looking up equivalent measurements online. Or at least I do. I grew up post metrication but am still more familiar with Imperial measurements when it comes to things like bodies and food. Distances are metric, ovens are F and outside temps are definitely C.
posted by booky at 2:33 PM on March 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
posted by booky at 2:33 PM on March 16, 2016 [5 favorites]
Best answer: We live in a weird in-between up here. Most cooking is done using imperial. My Canadian-European friends are the only people I know with scales, outside of serious cooks. Packaging is mostly in metric, so the tomato sauce for tonight's pizza is in ml, flour in grams or kg. However sometimes these measurements line up with imperial. So, for example, a brick of butter is labelled as both 454g and 1lb, and when you peel off the packaging you see cut lines indicated for cups.
Meat is generally sold in metric. Today I picked up 100g of sliced pepperoni for the homemade pizza. I long ago trained myself to remember that 1lb=a bit less than 1/2kg.
I just turned on my oven to 425F to cook the pizza and I have no idea what that is in celsius. Strangely I can tell you that it is 8 celsius outside right now, but I've only the vaguest notion of what that is in fahrenheit. I give my height and weight in feet, inches and lbs and could not tell you how many cm tall I am. I use metres and km, never miles, when calculating distance. I teach art and usually give canvas size in inches though, not cm. I live in Quebec but was raised in BC and don't see any difference here. My francophone partner switches back and forth like me, though she can give her height and weight in metric I think.
My generation (I'm in my mid 40s) learned metric in school but had parents who used imperial. My kids are getting the metric in school as well, but when I teach them to cook we mostly use imperial so I suppose I'm helping propagate the use of both systems for another generation.
posted by Cuke at 2:40 PM on March 16, 2016 [20 favorites]
Meat is generally sold in metric. Today I picked up 100g of sliced pepperoni for the homemade pizza. I long ago trained myself to remember that 1lb=a bit less than 1/2kg.
I just turned on my oven to 425F to cook the pizza and I have no idea what that is in celsius. Strangely I can tell you that it is 8 celsius outside right now, but I've only the vaguest notion of what that is in fahrenheit. I give my height and weight in feet, inches and lbs and could not tell you how many cm tall I am. I use metres and km, never miles, when calculating distance. I teach art and usually give canvas size in inches though, not cm. I live in Quebec but was raised in BC and don't see any difference here. My francophone partner switches back and forth like me, though she can give her height and weight in metric I think.
My generation (I'm in my mid 40s) learned metric in school but had parents who used imperial. My kids are getting the metric in school as well, but when I teach them to cook we mostly use imperial so I suppose I'm helping propagate the use of both systems for another generation.
posted by Cuke at 2:40 PM on March 16, 2016 [20 favorites]
Three cups of chicken broth is 750ml but damned if I know how much a pint or a quart is. Ounces I know only because I worked at Starbucks a million years ago and a short is a cup is 8 ounces. But I don't get how some ounces are fluid and some aren't. McDonalds sells a quarter pounder not a 12.5 percenter of a Kilo (and generally meat for cooking I buy by the pound ... but cold cuts and cheese I ask for by the hundred grams). We buy milk by the litre and butter is sold by the 454gr pound. At the grocery store fruit, veg, meats and cheeses that are sold by weight are officially priced by the kilo but the signs have both metric and imperial pricing for marketing. Oh, and measuring a tablespoon makes sense. Measuring 15ml is ridiculous. But on the other hand, two tablespoons is ridiculous and 30ml makes complete sense.
posted by dismitree at 2:40 PM on March 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
posted by dismitree at 2:40 PM on March 16, 2016 [2 favorites]
Best answer: This is a super interesting topic to me. I'm a cookbook author who is from the U.S. and now lives in Canada. This is definitely not a "dumb American" question as far as I'm concerned because the answer is way stranger than you might imagine. It certainly is more strange than I might have.
The short answer is that it's all over the map. If you go to a supermarket to buy produce, you will often see prices for both per pound and per kilo. Per pound is often in bigger type because, of course, it's "cheaper" that way. (Of course, when you look at your receipt, the price/quantity is often given per kilo, which makes you think "Wait a minute, I thought it was ... oh right! Pound vs. kilos.")
The butcher I most often go to only has prices in kilos and for some reason that seems normal. But if I happen to ask for something in pounds, it doesn't throw them.
Yes, butter is sold in 454g blocks — with cups (and millilitres but not tablespoons) marked on the side in case you want to slice some off according to a certain measurement.
In my experience, yes, people who are older (say, my partner's parents, who are Canadian) are more comfortable with non-metric measurements.
My oven is only in Fahrenheit. Probably there is a setting to change it to Celsius? But I'm not sure. And it was like this when we moved in.
So, yes, to echo the two above answers: It's a mix, for sure. And it drives me freaking crazy sometimes!
posted by veggieboy at 2:41 PM on March 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
The short answer is that it's all over the map. If you go to a supermarket to buy produce, you will often see prices for both per pound and per kilo. Per pound is often in bigger type because, of course, it's "cheaper" that way. (Of course, when you look at your receipt, the price/quantity is often given per kilo, which makes you think "Wait a minute, I thought it was ... oh right! Pound vs. kilos.")
The butcher I most often go to only has prices in kilos and for some reason that seems normal. But if I happen to ask for something in pounds, it doesn't throw them.
Yes, butter is sold in 454g blocks — with cups (and millilitres but not tablespoons) marked on the side in case you want to slice some off according to a certain measurement.
In my experience, yes, people who are older (say, my partner's parents, who are Canadian) are more comfortable with non-metric measurements.
My oven is only in Fahrenheit. Probably there is a setting to change it to Celsius? But I'm not sure. And it was like this when we moved in.
So, yes, to echo the two above answers: It's a mix, for sure. And it drives me freaking crazy sometimes!
posted by veggieboy at 2:41 PM on March 16, 2016 [4 favorites]
1. Mostly imperial, but weights (e.g. in precision baking) would be in grams
2. Mostly volume, but sometimes weight. My mom had a scale in her kitchen and I do now.
3. I think usually metric only? You often see things in packages of 454g or 473mL. Produce is often in lbs, meat in g/kg.
posted by quaking fajita at 2:43 PM on March 16, 2016
2. Mostly volume, but sometimes weight. My mom had a scale in her kitchen and I do now.
3. I think usually metric only? You often see things in packages of 454g or 473mL. Produce is often in lbs, meat in g/kg.
posted by quaking fajita at 2:43 PM on March 16, 2016
My parents grew up with Imperial and they are much better at temperature in F rather than C. All other measurements are fine for them either way. Most everyone younger is horrible with F unless it's cooking temperature.
As mentioned, body stuff (height and weight) are pretty Imperial although I'd guess that might not be true with newer parents.
posted by hydrobatidae at 2:43 PM on March 16, 2016
As mentioned, body stuff (height and weight) are pretty Imperial although I'd guess that might not be true with newer parents.
posted by hydrobatidae at 2:43 PM on March 16, 2016
Most measuring instruments will have both Imperial and Metric on them. So I've learned shorthand like 5 mL = a tsp, 15 mL = tbsp, and 250 mL ~= 1 cup. I have vague ideas what a quart, pint, or gallon is but they don't usually come up in cookbooks. I often convert to metric if I need to divide a recipe because I can't instinctively breakdown cups to tbsp or whatever.
posted by megamanwich at 2:45 PM on March 16, 2016
posted by megamanwich at 2:45 PM on March 16, 2016
the key metric you're missing as a silly american is the absolute and incredibly accurate reporting of milkfat percentages for all dairy. why ask for "whole" when you could request "3.25% milkfat"
in all seriousness though, when we visit (which is pretty often) and im at a grocery store i never have any idea of what im paying for a bulk product (usually protein). By the time i convert the price per 100g (about 4 oz so x4 for a price per lb) and then do the math on the currency conversion . . . i just figure im on vacation and it seems like a not terrible deal so less worrying for me.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 2:47 PM on March 16, 2016
in all seriousness though, when we visit (which is pretty often) and im at a grocery store i never have any idea of what im paying for a bulk product (usually protein). By the time i convert the price per 100g (about 4 oz so x4 for a price per lb) and then do the math on the currency conversion . . . i just figure im on vacation and it seems like a not terrible deal so less worrying for me.
posted by Exceptional_Hubris at 2:47 PM on March 16, 2016
Response by poster: But I don't get how some ounces are fluid and some aren't.
Welcome to the loony world of US units -- it's basically that "ounce" is used to refer both to a measure of weight (just "ounce"), in which case 1 oz=28.3 g (and 16 oz=1 lb), but also as a measure of volume ("fluid ounce"), in which case 1 oz=29.6 mL (and 8 fl oz=1 cup). As you can see, 1 fl oz of water does not weigh exactly 1 oz in the way that 1 mL of water weighs 1 g. Of course.
(Based on the answers to the question thus far, I like to think that I'm a quasi-Canadian measurer in the kitchen: I have converted to baking by weight in grams and know that my individual cooked portions of rice are 250g, but I frequently buy ¼ lb portions of ground meat and try to stir-fry 12 oz of leafy greens at a time. I'm trying to personally convert my kitchen to metric, because it's SO much easier to scale and weighing is way more accurate for baking, but it's uneven and difficult to do completely when all your shopping has to be in imperial units.)
posted by andrewesque at 2:53 PM on March 16, 2016
Welcome to the loony world of US units -- it's basically that "ounce" is used to refer both to a measure of weight (just "ounce"), in which case 1 oz=28.3 g (and 16 oz=1 lb), but also as a measure of volume ("fluid ounce"), in which case 1 oz=29.6 mL (and 8 fl oz=1 cup). As you can see, 1 fl oz of water does not weigh exactly 1 oz in the way that 1 mL of water weighs 1 g. Of course.
(Based on the answers to the question thus far, I like to think that I'm a quasi-Canadian measurer in the kitchen: I have converted to baking by weight in grams and know that my individual cooked portions of rice are 250g, but I frequently buy ¼ lb portions of ground meat and try to stir-fry 12 oz of leafy greens at a time. I'm trying to personally convert my kitchen to metric, because it's SO much easier to scale and weighing is way more accurate for baking, but it's uneven and difficult to do completely when all your shopping has to be in imperial units.)
posted by andrewesque at 2:53 PM on March 16, 2016
Best answer: Cookbooks that I've seen have all been imperial, but I haven't looked at a physical cookbook in years.
We have a kitchen scale at home because of foreign/internet recipes that are often metric (such as Japanese ones).
Large dry goods like flour and sugar are sold in kg, and maybe 500g for things like brown sugar. A lot of pre-packaged things like baking soda or powder are just by box size. I couldn't tell you how much a box of baking powder contains, but because all baking powder is either Magic brand, or a no-name that mimics its trade dress it is some kind of standard baking powder size. Same with baking soda.
Canned and jarred goods in general seem to be soft metric. Nothing is ever an even 400ml or the like but some random thing that I assume corresponds to something in the US. The one exception I can think of is canned juice (apple, tomato or pineapple) which'll be in a 1L size.
Pop cans are 355ml but the large bottles are an even 2l.
Milk is metric the whole way through. You'll get 4L bags/jugs of milk, as well as 1l, 500ml and 250ml. Creams will be 1l, 500ml or 250ml. Brick cheese is metric, but the sizes have decreased over time to mask inflation so where a brick used to be 1kg it is now somewhere around 600g now. Sliced cheese is by the slice. I have no idea how much a pack of sliced cheese weighs, but at the store they'll have thin and thick slice side-by-side and they will cost the same by weight.
In general distances are in metres and km, but older people will say miles. But for height and length around the home people will use feet all the time. Most people default thinking about their height and weight in feet, inches and pounds, but will probably know their metric height at the very least.
Room and weather temperature is in Celsius, although Fahrenheit is always displayed on signboards in addition to metric. I need to think to do a conversion between the two and C is definitely the default. But baking temperatures are in F and if I see a recipe that uses C I'll have to do the conversion the other way.
Paper sizes are letter (8.5x11 inches) and legal (8.5x14 inches), and it is actually pretty hard to pick up ISO standard sized paper.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 2:57 PM on March 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
We have a kitchen scale at home because of foreign/internet recipes that are often metric (such as Japanese ones).
Large dry goods like flour and sugar are sold in kg, and maybe 500g for things like brown sugar. A lot of pre-packaged things like baking soda or powder are just by box size. I couldn't tell you how much a box of baking powder contains, but because all baking powder is either Magic brand, or a no-name that mimics its trade dress it is some kind of standard baking powder size. Same with baking soda.
Canned and jarred goods in general seem to be soft metric. Nothing is ever an even 400ml or the like but some random thing that I assume corresponds to something in the US. The one exception I can think of is canned juice (apple, tomato or pineapple) which'll be in a 1L size.
Pop cans are 355ml but the large bottles are an even 2l.
Milk is metric the whole way through. You'll get 4L bags/jugs of milk, as well as 1l, 500ml and 250ml. Creams will be 1l, 500ml or 250ml. Brick cheese is metric, but the sizes have decreased over time to mask inflation so where a brick used to be 1kg it is now somewhere around 600g now. Sliced cheese is by the slice. I have no idea how much a pack of sliced cheese weighs, but at the store they'll have thin and thick slice side-by-side and they will cost the same by weight.
In general distances are in metres and km, but older people will say miles. But for height and length around the home people will use feet all the time. Most people default thinking about their height and weight in feet, inches and pounds, but will probably know their metric height at the very least.
Room and weather temperature is in Celsius, although Fahrenheit is always displayed on signboards in addition to metric. I need to think to do a conversion between the two and C is definitely the default. But baking temperatures are in F and if I see a recipe that uses C I'll have to do the conversion the other way.
Paper sizes are letter (8.5x11 inches) and legal (8.5x14 inches), and it is actually pretty hard to pick up ISO standard sized paper.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 2:57 PM on March 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Also to head off topic expansion (or arguments about metric units), I'd like to specifically confine this question to cooking/food measurement -- Wikipedia's metrication in Canada article is actually pretty good on this topic; it was just the cooking/food part I was specifically interested in.
posted by andrewesque at 2:58 PM on March 16, 2016
posted by andrewesque at 2:58 PM on March 16, 2016
It's a mess! I don't think you'll find a lot of internal logic to it.
I've memorized all the different measurement when it comes to cooking. I just "know" that 1 fl. oz = 2 tbsp = 30 ml. Sometimes I get help from a measuring cup. Mine lists both 250 ml and 1 cup.
The hanging scales at the grocery store (for measuring produce) show both lbs and kgs.
Distance/speed is generally in km and km/h.
Height is generally in feet and inches.
Outside temperature is always Celsuis and oven temperature is always Fahrenheit. (I'm not even sure I've seen an oven in Canada that allows for Celsius.)
posted by cranberrymonger at 3:02 PM on March 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
I've memorized all the different measurement when it comes to cooking. I just "know" that 1 fl. oz = 2 tbsp = 30 ml. Sometimes I get help from a measuring cup. Mine lists both 250 ml and 1 cup.
The hanging scales at the grocery store (for measuring produce) show both lbs and kgs.
Distance/speed is generally in km and km/h.
Height is generally in feet and inches.
Outside temperature is always Celsuis and oven temperature is always Fahrenheit. (I'm not even sure I've seen an oven in Canada that allows for Celsius.)
posted by cranberrymonger at 3:02 PM on March 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Oh, and everything that has a weird number in metric will show some imperial equivalent. So the 355 ml can of pop will say how many ounces it is but the 2L bottle won't.
My measuring cups have cups/ounces on one side an ml on the other. I use 250 ml and 1 cup interchangeably even though I know they aren't the same. Otherwise if the recipe calls for a fraction of the cup I will look at the imperial side and if it tells me in ml I will look at the metric side.
I know that a teaspoon here is 5ml and a tablespoon is 15ml but I'm starting to worry that they may actually be different amounts in the US because it is too convenient otherwise, although a ml here or there won't make a difference in my cooking anyway.
My oven only has F but my cooking thermometers (baking and roasting) both show C as well.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 3:12 PM on March 16, 2016
My measuring cups have cups/ounces on one side an ml on the other. I use 250 ml and 1 cup interchangeably even though I know they aren't the same. Otherwise if the recipe calls for a fraction of the cup I will look at the imperial side and if it tells me in ml I will look at the metric side.
I know that a teaspoon here is 5ml and a tablespoon is 15ml but I'm starting to worry that they may actually be different amounts in the US because it is too convenient otherwise, although a ml here or there won't make a difference in my cooking anyway.
My oven only has F but my cooking thermometers (baking and roasting) both show C as well.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 3:12 PM on March 16, 2016
My very good Canadian friend has a fridge magnet that converts via imperial to metric. She says it keeps her right when she's switching between her many cookbooks (apparently they are not even consistent which makes this technical editor have heart palpitations). Her mother has a similar fridge magnet.
/anecdata.
posted by kariebookish at 3:22 PM on March 16, 2016
/anecdata.
posted by kariebookish at 3:22 PM on March 16, 2016
Best answer: Agree that most things will be a mix. Most measuring materials will have both metric and imperial. You'd be hard-pressed in Canada to find any cookbooks that express oven temperatures in C; everything* I've seen is in F (though mine allowed me to switch, I always used F). A lot of baking books express measurements in weight in either/both, which makes it handy to have a scale that shows both.
Liquids are all metric. Note that a pint in Canada is 20 fl oz and a pint in the US is 16 fl oz.
* the entertaining counter example is from my ex-wife's grandmother's recipe book from Nova Scotia. She cooked on a wood stove and the recipes would call for things to be cooked on "a fairly hot fire" or some such.
posted by transient at 3:27 PM on March 16, 2016
Liquids are all metric. Note that a pint in Canada is 20 fl oz and a pint in the US is 16 fl oz.
* the entertaining counter example is from my ex-wife's grandmother's recipe book from Nova Scotia. She cooked on a wood stove and the recipes would call for things to be cooked on "a fairly hot fire" or some such.
posted by transient at 3:27 PM on March 16, 2016
Butter sticks have tablespoons marked on the foil, butter blocks do not, where a stick is a quarter of a one pound block.
posted by jeather at 3:34 PM on March 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
posted by jeather at 3:34 PM on March 16, 2016 [1 favorite]
Best answer: andrewesque: "- Are most cookbooks metric or imperial? This question implies they're mostly imperial but wondering if anything has changed.
My wife has a wall of cookbooks; the newer they are or the more health oriented they are the more likely it is that they will have dual units. IE: the ingredients list will have two columns, one each for imperial and metric. Also the books released in the mid 70s (when we became metric) often feature dual units.
- Would Canadian cooks measure things like flour or sugar by weight or volume? And by extension, how common are kitchen scales?
Seems to be about 50/50. Everyone I know who cooks (or has ever followed a diet plan) has a kitchen scale or three. My wife uses two regularly (so she can set a tare for two different bowls).
- Are packaged goods in Canada dual-labeled (in imperial and metric) and if so, do they tend to be "hard metric" (e.g., a 500 g/1 lb 1½ oz package) or "soft metric" (a 454 g/1 lb) package? And is loose produce or meat weighed/sold in metric units?
Everything is sold officially in metric units. Most advertising and in store signs give prominence to the imperial units because the per unit price is cheaper (pounds are smaller the kilograms) though there has been a bit of a trend to advertise things per 100 grams (ah marketing shrink ray is there nothing you can't do?) My local deli for example sells everything by the 100 grams
- As metrication was within many people's lifetimes, is this one of those things that differs by age? Is metrication more consistently done in Quebec?
Certianly the older you are the more likely you are to think in imperial. I was born in 72 so learned metric in school but initially worked with a guy who thought 100% imperial. So I can use both units easily but I need a second to switch between. IE: in my wood shop I think in Imperial usually because dimension lumber comes that way and all the vintage tools I own are set up for imperial. But I work as an electrician in metric because large scale projects I work on are designed that way. Most of my day to day units are in Metric (Air temperature, weights, speed, distances short and long but when I am thinking of a refrigeration system I revert back to Imperial because that is where I learned.
Also we have the additional complexity as Stonkle brought up that Canadian Imperial is different than American Imperial. EG: a Canadian gallon is quite reasonably 10 pounds of water which is about 20% larger than how the Americans figure it. So when you are looking at a recipe in a cook book and it doesn't have metric units you need to determine if it is using American or Canadian Imperial units. Even better are recipes that use units of "cans" of something and between metricfication and the packaging shrink ray you have no idea what you are supposed to use.
My Dad: "We use a mixture (although building trades just use Imperial) with everything."
The larger the project the less this is true nowadays.
posted by Mitheral at 4:25 PM on March 16, 2016
My wife has a wall of cookbooks; the newer they are or the more health oriented they are the more likely it is that they will have dual units. IE: the ingredients list will have two columns, one each for imperial and metric. Also the books released in the mid 70s (when we became metric) often feature dual units.
- Would Canadian cooks measure things like flour or sugar by weight or volume? And by extension, how common are kitchen scales?
Seems to be about 50/50. Everyone I know who cooks (or has ever followed a diet plan) has a kitchen scale or three. My wife uses two regularly (so she can set a tare for two different bowls).
- Are packaged goods in Canada dual-labeled (in imperial and metric) and if so, do they tend to be "hard metric" (e.g., a 500 g/1 lb 1½ oz package) or "soft metric" (a 454 g/1 lb) package? And is loose produce or meat weighed/sold in metric units?
Everything is sold officially in metric units. Most advertising and in store signs give prominence to the imperial units because the per unit price is cheaper (pounds are smaller the kilograms) though there has been a bit of a trend to advertise things per 100 grams (ah marketing shrink ray is there nothing you can't do?) My local deli for example sells everything by the 100 grams
- As metrication was within many people's lifetimes, is this one of those things that differs by age? Is metrication more consistently done in Quebec?
Certianly the older you are the more likely you are to think in imperial. I was born in 72 so learned metric in school but initially worked with a guy who thought 100% imperial. So I can use both units easily but I need a second to switch between. IE: in my wood shop I think in Imperial usually because dimension lumber comes that way and all the vintage tools I own are set up for imperial. But I work as an electrician in metric because large scale projects I work on are designed that way. Most of my day to day units are in Metric (Air temperature, weights, speed, distances short and long but when I am thinking of a refrigeration system I revert back to Imperial because that is where I learned.
Also we have the additional complexity as Stonkle brought up that Canadian Imperial is different than American Imperial. EG: a Canadian gallon is quite reasonably 10 pounds of water which is about 20% larger than how the Americans figure it. So when you are looking at a recipe in a cook book and it doesn't have metric units you need to determine if it is using American or Canadian Imperial units. Even better are recipes that use units of "cans" of something and between metricfication and the packaging shrink ray you have no idea what you are supposed to use.
My Dad: "We use a mixture (although building trades just use Imperial) with everything."
The larger the project the less this is true nowadays.
posted by Mitheral at 4:25 PM on March 16, 2016
Best answer: All over the map, with absolutely no consistency. Nova Scotian here, my wife is a trained cook, I grew up entirely in Metric but my older siblings learned Imperial.
Cookbooks go either way. Full Imperial is most common, probably because they're American publishers. Canadian publications tend to show both measures. Rare to find an all-Metric one, but that does happen.
We do have a scale and measure by that often, but that's probably my wife's influence.
Packaging used to be dual labelled, but I'm seeing less of it now. Used to be very common to see 454g/1lb, but now not so much. Fluid measures are strictly Metric; can't remember the last time I saw pint or gallon anythings. I've got 473mL cream, 1.89L orange juice, 1kg yogurt, but strangely enough 1.9lb/850g margarine from Quebec.
Inside Pool: Supermarket chains resisted switching to metric for meat pricing, and had secret meetings about it. Nobody wanted to be the first to switch from $4.99/lb to $11.80/kg (or whatever the actual equivalent would be), because it would look like they were hiking their prices astronomically over their competition. It's only been in the last few years that the major chains have started the switch to "price per 100g", because that looks like you're lowering the price. This was done after high-level negotiation between the chains led to an agreement. You'll see both prices on packaging for those items (for instance, deli counter tags print in both prices), and the prominence of each version varies. Some stores will highlight the metric, others the Imperial.
And yes, outside temperatures are Celcius (although older generations still talk in Fahrenheit, but never in weather reports), but appliances are pretty much only Imperial. I think there might be a way to switch the digital display of our oven to Metric, but that would last exactly one attempt to bake something at 400 degrees before my wife would kill me.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 4:47 PM on March 16, 2016
Cookbooks go either way. Full Imperial is most common, probably because they're American publishers. Canadian publications tend to show both measures. Rare to find an all-Metric one, but that does happen.
We do have a scale and measure by that often, but that's probably my wife's influence.
Packaging used to be dual labelled, but I'm seeing less of it now. Used to be very common to see 454g/1lb, but now not so much. Fluid measures are strictly Metric; can't remember the last time I saw pint or gallon anythings. I've got 473mL cream, 1.89L orange juice, 1kg yogurt, but strangely enough 1.9lb/850g margarine from Quebec.
Inside Pool: Supermarket chains resisted switching to metric for meat pricing, and had secret meetings about it. Nobody wanted to be the first to switch from $4.99/lb to $11.80/kg (or whatever the actual equivalent would be), because it would look like they were hiking their prices astronomically over their competition. It's only been in the last few years that the major chains have started the switch to "price per 100g", because that looks like you're lowering the price. This was done after high-level negotiation between the chains led to an agreement. You'll see both prices on packaging for those items (for instance, deli counter tags print in both prices), and the prominence of each version varies. Some stores will highlight the metric, others the Imperial.
And yes, outside temperatures are Celcius (although older generations still talk in Fahrenheit, but never in weather reports), but appliances are pretty much only Imperial. I think there might be a way to switch the digital display of our oven to Metric, but that would last exactly one attempt to bake something at 400 degrees before my wife would kill me.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 4:47 PM on March 16, 2016
Historically, as I recall, Canada was on its way to being metric under a federal Liberal government, when the Conservatives came in and stopped the process. The things that had been changed mostly stayed changed (nobody I know thinks in Fahrenheit any more for weather, and highways and cars are in km) but a lot of stuff got stuck in imperial. I've never seen a kitchen stove marked in Celsius but a lot of folks keep stoves for a long time. I think if you buy a measuring cup now it'll be marked in both systems, but I just checked mine, which I've had for ages, and it's only in ounces.
I live in Quebec where descriptions of missing people etc. are officially given out in cm and kg, but quite often this will be converted to feet/inches and lbs. on the anglo side.
posted by zadcat at 6:15 PM on March 16, 2016
I live in Quebec where descriptions of missing people etc. are officially given out in cm and kg, but quite often this will be converted to feet/inches and lbs. on the anglo side.
posted by zadcat at 6:15 PM on March 16, 2016
→ Note that a pint in Canada is 20 fl oz and a pint in the US is 16 fl oz.
I'd disagree. Any of the measures I have here assume 16 to the pint. Much older measuring jugs would have 20 ounce pints.
I'm aggressively metric in daily life, and I hope we'll beat the stupid out of those old measures soon.
posted by scruss at 7:05 PM on March 16, 2016
I'd disagree. Any of the measures I have here assume 16 to the pint. Much older measuring jugs would have 20 ounce pints.
I'm aggressively metric in daily life, and I hope we'll beat the stupid out of those old measures soon.
posted by scruss at 7:05 PM on March 16, 2016
Onces must die, stupidest unit ever! :)
Like everybody said it's a mish mash of units , even though officially everything is metric.
Here's an example of how a recipe would look like in a modern cookbook...
http://www.ricardocuisine.com/recipes/3850-mushroom-tatin
You have both units, you can see it was developed with imperial measures. Strangely the oven temp is mentioned first in C.
For quantities of flour over 2 tsp I use a scale, but this is not the norm, it's absolutely what you should be using for flour but eh.
posted by coust at 8:54 PM on March 16, 2016
Like everybody said it's a mish mash of units , even though officially everything is metric.
Here's an example of how a recipe would look like in a modern cookbook...
http://www.ricardocuisine.com/recipes/3850-mushroom-tatin
You have both units, you can see it was developed with imperial measures. Strangely the oven temp is mentioned first in C.
For quantities of flour over 2 tsp I use a scale, but this is not the norm, it's absolutely what you should be using for flour but eh.
posted by coust at 8:54 PM on March 16, 2016
Any of the measures I have here assume 16 to the pint.
Try giving a Canadian a 16 ounce "pint" of beer and notice their reaction :)
posted by transient at 1:01 AM on March 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
Try giving a Canadian a 16 ounce "pint" of beer and notice their reaction :)
posted by transient at 1:01 AM on March 17, 2016 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: That mushroom tatin recipe is interesting to me because the conversions are both hard and soft -- it approximates 1 cup to 250 ml (when 1 cup actually equals 237 ml) but also has that exact "454 g/1 lb" measure for mushrooms, where you might think that a slight approximation to "450 g/1 lb" would look more natural to someone using metric units.
Obviously, 13 ml or 4 g either way is not going to make a difference to a recipe like that, but I think it's just interesting anyway.
posted by andrewesque at 4:43 AM on March 17, 2016
Obviously, 13 ml or 4 g either way is not going to make a difference to a recipe like that, but I think it's just interesting anyway.
posted by andrewesque at 4:43 AM on March 17, 2016
Best answer:
posted by pocams at 8:38 AM on March 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
That mushroom tatin recipe is interesting to me because the conversions are both hard and soft -- it approximates 1 cup to 250 ml (when 1 cup actually equals 237 ml) but also has that exact "454 g/1 lb" measure for mushrooms, where you might think that a slight approximation to "450 g/1 lb" would look more natural to someone using metric units.This is actually pretty common. If it's something you're probably going to measure from a larger volume, like the flour and butter in that recipe, you'll have cups and 'soft' metric conversions. If it's something you're probably going to buy and use all of, like the mushrooms, it'll be a hard conversion so you can look for the 454-gram package. Similar to US recipes that call for a 10 oz can of beans or what have you.
posted by pocams at 8:38 AM on March 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Baking/cooking: always cups, teaspoons, and F temperatures because that's what almost all recipes use, even Canadian ones, probably because most recipes are from the US and the majority tends to set the guidelines. I've never weighed anything for a recipe ever, but I don't do the really finicky baking, where maybe you would. I don't know what F oven temperatures are in C because again, recipes are all in F. I know exactly how many mL are in a cup and vaguely how many are in tsp/T (I think it's 5 and 15) but mostly because it's printed on every measuring device and because liquids are sold in mL here so you have an idea of how much that means...not because recipes actually use mL.
Oz and quarts are never used for anything, recipes or otherwise, so I never remember what they are (I think 16 in a pound? or 8? and it's not intuitive to divide 454g into that, so I have no idea what, like, 2 oz of spinach or something would look like). Draft beer is sold in pints so I know that one, assuming that's a real pint.
Packaging: pounds, oz etc almost never appear, just metric, but packages are often sold in pound-related units (eg 454g), probably because they're packaged somewhere that also sells to the US. Also applies to meat.
Weighed stuff: produce, meat etc is weird here because it's advertised in price per pound but the receipt shows you price per kilo, probably because the store thinks you'll buy more with the "lower" advertised price. When I was a cashier this was really annoying because a lot of customers didn't understand/got upset at the "higher" price per kilo on the receipt. Bonus: as a direct result, I'll probably always remember the metric conversion for e.g. 99c/lb (2.18/kg) and 1.99/lb (4.39).
Weather: always C, I have only a vague idea of what F temperatures are (I know 100F = hot in summer and 0F = pretty normal in winter, but for everywhere in between I'm not really sure). People my grandparents' age tend to use F though, and parents' age (boomers) are a mix but I also hear more F than C from them.
I buy groceries about equally these days in Quebec and Ontario and the above is all true at both, though it might not be the same throughout both provinces.
Bonus answer: I work in a science lab and we use metric (g and mL) for everything. I'm curious now what US labs use, since science is pretty much exclusively published in metric, now that I'm thinking about it. So they must either use metric all the time, or convert everything when they publish their methods.
Overall I would really prefer full metric, it just makes so much more sense, but since there's so much influence from the US in our daily lives, it's hard to avoid imperial completely, ugh.
posted by randomnity at 11:28 AM on March 17, 2016
Oz and quarts are never used for anything, recipes or otherwise, so I never remember what they are (I think 16 in a pound? or 8? and it's not intuitive to divide 454g into that, so I have no idea what, like, 2 oz of spinach or something would look like). Draft beer is sold in pints so I know that one, assuming that's a real pint.
Packaging: pounds, oz etc almost never appear, just metric, but packages are often sold in pound-related units (eg 454g), probably because they're packaged somewhere that also sells to the US. Also applies to meat.
Weighed stuff: produce, meat etc is weird here because it's advertised in price per pound but the receipt shows you price per kilo, probably because the store thinks you'll buy more with the "lower" advertised price. When I was a cashier this was really annoying because a lot of customers didn't understand/got upset at the "higher" price per kilo on the receipt. Bonus: as a direct result, I'll probably always remember the metric conversion for e.g. 99c/lb (2.18/kg) and 1.99/lb (4.39).
Weather: always C, I have only a vague idea of what F temperatures are (I know 100F = hot in summer and 0F = pretty normal in winter, but for everywhere in between I'm not really sure). People my grandparents' age tend to use F though, and parents' age (boomers) are a mix but I also hear more F than C from them.
I buy groceries about equally these days in Quebec and Ontario and the above is all true at both, though it might not be the same throughout both provinces.
Bonus answer: I work in a science lab and we use metric (g and mL) for everything. I'm curious now what US labs use, since science is pretty much exclusively published in metric, now that I'm thinking about it. So they must either use metric all the time, or convert everything when they publish their methods.
Overall I would really prefer full metric, it just makes so much more sense, but since there's so much influence from the US in our daily lives, it's hard to avoid imperial completely, ugh.
posted by randomnity at 11:28 AM on March 17, 2016
Response by poster: I guess to clarify (and jeather touched on this a bit) -- when I mentioned Quebec, I really meant to ask if there's any significant difference between Anglophone and Francophone Canada, i.e. if French-language cookbooks/cooking blogs are more prone to be in metric, weigh ingredients, etc. or if supermarkets catering to French-speakers are more likely to only post prices in kg, things like that.
Thanks for all the answers so far! This has been extremely illuminating, and it does appear to be quite the mishmash north of the border if I do say so myself.
posted by andrewesque at 1:32 PM on March 17, 2016
Thanks for all the answers so far! This has been extremely illuminating, and it does appear to be quite the mishmash north of the border if I do say so myself.
posted by andrewesque at 1:32 PM on March 17, 2016
if French-language cookbooks/cooking blogs are more prone to be in metric, weigh ingredients, etc.
Yes.
if supermarkets catering to French-speakers are more likely to only post prices in kg, things like that.
I haven't noticed this but I could have missed it I suppose.
posted by jeather at 1:49 PM on March 17, 2016
Yes.
if supermarkets catering to French-speakers are more likely to only post prices in kg, things like that.
I haven't noticed this but I could have missed it I suppose.
posted by jeather at 1:49 PM on March 17, 2016
I've gone back and checked 2 old Canadian French 1980s cookbook I got from my parents, it's all imperial not trace of metric to be found there.
The other earliest cookbook I own is from the early 2000s, and it's primarily metric but has all imperial equivalents. The Pied de Cochon sugar shack cookbook is all metric, and is primarily weights with approximative ml added if you don't have a scale... except for oven temps where F is included.
posted by coust at 6:14 PM on March 17, 2016
The other earliest cookbook I own is from the early 2000s, and it's primarily metric but has all imperial equivalents. The Pied de Cochon sugar shack cookbook is all metric, and is primarily weights with approximative ml added if you don't have a scale... except for oven temps where F is included.
posted by coust at 6:14 PM on March 17, 2016
Best answer: Most of my cookbooks have both imperial and metric units. Everyday cookbooks tend to go by volume; those aimed at intermediate or advanced home cooks will usually weigh ingredients.
Even in Quebec, supermarkets tend to advertise prices by the pound, because it's a smaller amount than the price by kg. I think they have to write the price/kg as well, but they write it below in much smaller characters. Older people will often order half a pound of ham; the younger generation tends to ask for 200 grams.
Oven temperatures are Fahrenheit even in Quebec. I've never seen an oven with Celsius markings in Quebec (which doesn't mean they don't exist -- I don't go look at oven controls every day).
About the Tatin recipe above: it's interesting to note that the French version here has metric first and imperial second, which is the opposite of the English version.
posted by pguertin at 9:01 PM on March 17, 2016
Even in Quebec, supermarkets tend to advertise prices by the pound, because it's a smaller amount than the price by kg. I think they have to write the price/kg as well, but they write it below in much smaller characters. Older people will often order half a pound of ham; the younger generation tends to ask for 200 grams.
Oven temperatures are Fahrenheit even in Quebec. I've never seen an oven with Celsius markings in Quebec (which doesn't mean they don't exist -- I don't go look at oven controls every day).
About the Tatin recipe above: it's interesting to note that the French version here has metric first and imperial second, which is the opposite of the English version.
posted by pguertin at 9:01 PM on March 17, 2016
Best answer: French Canadian Québécois d'Amérique française here. My grandma (b. ~1930) cooked in all imperial. My mom (b. ~1960) uses both metric and imperial. I (b. ~1980) don't really cook, but people in my generation are more metric-oriented.
Looking at flyers for Quebec supermarkets, meat, fruit and vegetables are advertised in pounds, with kg in small print, but cold cuts are advertised by the 100 g. I don't read cooking blogs, but TV cooking shows (Di Stasio, Ricardo) seem to stick to volume measurements.
With soft metric, you have the situation where some correspond to US formats in US fluid ounces (29.6 ml) and others are from Imperial formats in Imperial fluid ounces (28.4 ml). So you'll get a 355 ml aluminum can of beer (12 US fl. oz), but a 341 ml bottle (12 Imp. fl. oz). Sometimes the equivalent imperial/US measurement will be printed, but often it won't (like on an 1.89 L (=64 US fl. oz) bottle of juice). Most stuff sold in tin cans is in soft metric derived from the Imperial fl. oz, with cans of 10, 12, 14, 19 or 28 oz being common.
Other funny thing about temperatures: Baking: F, Outside, C, swimming water... F! So people who don't know the significance of 32 and 212 F turn their ovens to 350 and know what swimming in 90 F water feels like.
posted by Monday, stony Monday at 9:01 PM on March 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
Looking at flyers for Quebec supermarkets, meat, fruit and vegetables are advertised in pounds, with kg in small print, but cold cuts are advertised by the 100 g. I don't read cooking blogs, but TV cooking shows (Di Stasio, Ricardo) seem to stick to volume measurements.
With soft metric, you have the situation where some correspond to US formats in US fluid ounces (29.6 ml) and others are from Imperial formats in Imperial fluid ounces (28.4 ml). So you'll get a 355 ml aluminum can of beer (12 US fl. oz), but a 341 ml bottle (12 Imp. fl. oz). Sometimes the equivalent imperial/US measurement will be printed, but often it won't (like on an 1.89 L (=64 US fl. oz) bottle of juice). Most stuff sold in tin cans is in soft metric derived from the Imperial fl. oz, with cans of 10, 12, 14, 19 or 28 oz being common.
Other funny thing about temperatures: Baking: F, Outside, C, swimming water... F! So people who don't know the significance of 32 and 212 F turn their ovens to 350 and know what swimming in 90 F water feels like.
posted by Monday, stony Monday at 9:01 PM on March 17, 2016 [1 favorite]
supermarkets catering to French-speakers
This isn't a thing. There isn't such a thing as a grocery store catering for French-speakers as such. In Quebec, commercial signage has to be in French, so even in the Asian or Middle Eastern grocery the signs will be in French.
In Montreal roughly half the population speaks French at home. Of the rest, about 15-20% speak English, depending whose stats you believe, the rest speaking Arabic, Spanish, Italian, Creole, Greek, Chinese and a long list of other languages. Outside Montreal, Quebec is overwhelmingly francophone. Speakers of French in Quebec are not a niche market. They are the market.
posted by zadcat at 11:16 AM on March 18, 2016
This isn't a thing. There isn't such a thing as a grocery store catering for French-speakers as such. In Quebec, commercial signage has to be in French, so even in the Asian or Middle Eastern grocery the signs will be in French.
In Montreal roughly half the population speaks French at home. Of the rest, about 15-20% speak English, depending whose stats you believe, the rest speaking Arabic, Spanish, Italian, Creole, Greek, Chinese and a long list of other languages. Outside Montreal, Quebec is overwhelmingly francophone. Speakers of French in Quebec are not a niche market. They are the market.
posted by zadcat at 11:16 AM on March 18, 2016
Imperial (though usually with metric in parentheses). Volume. Scales are for weight watchers and drug dealers.
Recipes are handed down from generation to generation, and who can be bothered to convert anything from imperial to metric, let alone from volume to weight? Besides, all the implements are imperial -- they're generally labeled in both, but, c'mon, a tablespoon is a tablespoon -- so there's not much point.
Most weather reports in Canada come straight from Environment Canada, a government agency, and are therefore in official metric units.
posted by Sys Rq at 3:35 PM on April 8, 2016
Recipes are handed down from generation to generation, and who can be bothered to convert anything from imperial to metric, let alone from volume to weight? Besides, all the implements are imperial -- they're generally labeled in both, but, c'mon, a tablespoon is a tablespoon -- so there's not much point.
Most weather reports in Canada come straight from Environment Canada, a government agency, and are therefore in official metric units.
posted by Sys Rq at 3:35 PM on April 8, 2016
This thread is closed to new comments.
2 - English: volume; French: weight
3 - usually just metric, and the size depends typically on if the same product is sold in the US (soft) or not (hard); prepackaged meat is usually metric but loose meat often has both prices on it
4 - not sure
5 - as a general rule, certain things use different settings -- but since we use US cookbooks a lot, ovens are easiest to use in F and the numbers are so different that it doesn't really matter that much. Outside temperatures are C. Water temperatures (baths, pools, water heaters) can be either.
posted by jeather at 2:24 PM on March 16, 2016 [2 favorites]