What social consideration do I owe the man who groped me on Christmas?
December 27, 2015 2:41 PM Subscribe
It was Christmas dinner at the loft; there were about 25 people there. I was in the crowded kitchen when a very casual acquaintance grabbed me from behind, startling me. His hand clamped on my hip, kneading, pinching. This covert violation was not completely unexpected; he’d done the same thing at Thanksgiving and I let it go by without direct comment, not wanting to make a scene. (I’d been sick about it ever since, and discussed it with several people, including one of my hosts.)
I reached down and pried his hand from my hip — I had to use quite a bit of strength because he resisted, like he had some proprietary right to my flesh. Fighting panic — he’s a big strong man and at that moment he had me in his grip from behind — I said, as evenly as possible, “Don’t do that.” “What?” he said. “Touch me like that. It’s inappropriate. You’re crossing boundaries.” In an extremely butt-hurt tone he said, “I’ll never do it again” and he was gone. He avoided me for the rest of the evening and I thought that was that.
I am fine with how I handled this situation. I did not raise my voice. I did not make a scene. I did not appeal to another man to save me — I took care of myself. The entire interaction took about 20 seconds. I was fine with his response; “I’ll never do it again” was exactly the result I needed.
Now one of my hosts has taken me to task, saying I upset multiple people, “created drama” in his home, throwing every clichéd rape culture argument in the book at me in a series of emails, assuming the innocence of the groper and my over-reaction. (“He hugs very intimately.”)
I am gutted; his response has triggered a significant amount of anxiety and there’s a very strong chance that I will be ostracized from this social group over the incident. The judgement of the second man, who I thought was a good friend, is a deeper violation and disappointment, so unexpected because he talks a very good game about progressive politics and feminist ideas.
What say you, MeFi? Should I have taken the groper off to the side — risked being in private with him — to talk to him about it, as my host would have preferred? Should I have reached out to the groper between Thanksgiving and Christmas to discuss my “boundary issues”? (I barely know him, don’t have his phone number, email, not connected on social media, etc.) Was the onus on me to pursue a solution that would have spared him whatever small embarrassment he suffered? (Remember, the entire interaction only took about 20 seconds; not many people witnessed it. I looked around the kitchen immediately after and no one seemed to have noticed.) How much consideration do I owe either of these men?
I reached down and pried his hand from my hip — I had to use quite a bit of strength because he resisted, like he had some proprietary right to my flesh. Fighting panic — he’s a big strong man and at that moment he had me in his grip from behind — I said, as evenly as possible, “Don’t do that.” “What?” he said. “Touch me like that. It’s inappropriate. You’re crossing boundaries.” In an extremely butt-hurt tone he said, “I’ll never do it again” and he was gone. He avoided me for the rest of the evening and I thought that was that.
I am fine with how I handled this situation. I did not raise my voice. I did not make a scene. I did not appeal to another man to save me — I took care of myself. The entire interaction took about 20 seconds. I was fine with his response; “I’ll never do it again” was exactly the result I needed.
Now one of my hosts has taken me to task, saying I upset multiple people, “created drama” in his home, throwing every clichéd rape culture argument in the book at me in a series of emails, assuming the innocence of the groper and my over-reaction. (“He hugs very intimately.”)
I am gutted; his response has triggered a significant amount of anxiety and there’s a very strong chance that I will be ostracized from this social group over the incident. The judgement of the second man, who I thought was a good friend, is a deeper violation and disappointment, so unexpected because he talks a very good game about progressive politics and feminist ideas.
What say you, MeFi? Should I have taken the groper off to the side — risked being in private with him — to talk to him about it, as my host would have preferred? Should I have reached out to the groper between Thanksgiving and Christmas to discuss my “boundary issues”? (I barely know him, don’t have his phone number, email, not connected on social media, etc.) Was the onus on me to pursue a solution that would have spared him whatever small embarrassment he suffered? (Remember, the entire interaction only took about 20 seconds; not many people witnessed it. I looked around the kitchen immediately after and no one seemed to have noticed.) How much consideration do I owe either of these men?
You did nothing wrong. Ugh. I'm sorry the host was so unhelpful and unsupportive.
On the bright side, you now know that neither the host nor the groper are people on whom you need to waste any more of your time. There are people out there who will invite you to gatherings where you will not be groped, and when you defend your boundaries they will cheer you on. Those people are worth seeking out.
Good luck.
posted by bunderful at 2:46 PM on December 27, 2015 [27 favorites]
On the bright side, you now know that neither the host nor the groper are people on whom you need to waste any more of your time. There are people out there who will invite you to gatherings where you will not be groped, and when you defend your boundaries they will cheer you on. Those people are worth seeking out.
Good luck.
posted by bunderful at 2:46 PM on December 27, 2015 [27 favorites]
No. You did the right thing. If you really care about this group, then I would suggest you ask someone else who was there who is more sympathetic to you how much this is really an issue for others.
"hugs intimately" my Aunt Fanny. Feh.
posted by frumiousb at 2:47 PM on December 27, 2015 [6 favorites]
"hugs intimately" my Aunt Fanny. Feh.
posted by frumiousb at 2:47 PM on December 27, 2015 [6 favorites]
I'm really sorry this happened to you. I experienced something very similar last spring, but wasn't able to say anything at the time to the man who touched me. I wish I had been able to do exactly what you did.
This has nothing to do with boundary issues. This man violated your body and your privacy. And deserved to be called out immediately in front of whoever was there. The man scolding you is in the wrong and is not your friend.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:47 PM on December 27, 2015 [7 favorites]
This has nothing to do with boundary issues. This man violated your body and your privacy. And deserved to be called out immediately in front of whoever was there. The man scolding you is in the wrong and is not your friend.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 2:47 PM on December 27, 2015 [7 favorites]
It would be okay to have raised your voice and created a scene. He was really out of line and sounds a bit scary. You did the right thing; no apologies needed.
With friends like these....
posted by Miko at 2:50 PM on December 27, 2015 [58 favorites]
With friends like these....
posted by Miko at 2:50 PM on December 27, 2015 [58 favorites]
So, I would say to the host, "He touched me inappropriately. I called him on it. He said it would never happen again. Story over. You are the only one turning it into a drama. As long as he doesn't do it again, he and I are OK. Why are YOU making such a big deal out of it."
I suppose there is small chance that saying that will make the host stop and think. If not, at least you are naming the "drama" as the host's problem, not yours.
ps. re the groping - Sounds like did exactly the right thing. (Not the only right thing, but something that met your needs in an appropriate way) Congratulations
posted by metahawk at 2:53 PM on December 27, 2015 [140 favorites]
I suppose there is small chance that saying that will make the host stop and think. If not, at least you are naming the "drama" as the host's problem, not yours.
ps. re the groping - Sounds like did exactly the right thing. (Not the only right thing, but something that met your needs in an appropriate way) Congratulations
posted by metahawk at 2:53 PM on December 27, 2015 [140 favorites]
Exactly what Miko says. And:
there’s a very strong chance that I will be ostracized from this social group over the incident
If what your host told you seriously passes as 'good judgment' in that social group you will be far better off not having to do with them; sounds rough, but it's the truth. Stick to people who treat you as a human being.
posted by Namlit at 2:55 PM on December 27, 2015 [9 favorites]
there’s a very strong chance that I will be ostracized from this social group over the incident
If what your host told you seriously passes as 'good judgment' in that social group you will be far better off not having to do with them; sounds rough, but it's the truth. Stick to people who treat you as a human being.
posted by Namlit at 2:55 PM on December 27, 2015 [9 favorites]
You did exactly the right thing in a pretty unfortunate situation, I think. Can't think of anything to say really that hasn't been better-articulated by the other posters, but, just wanted to add my voice in support of your decisions.
posted by Alterscape at 2:55 PM on December 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Alterscape at 2:55 PM on December 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
Best answer: You did the right thing and anyone who tells you you created drama is signaling something really significant about their world view.
I'm very sorry you are dealing with this.
posted by warriorqueen at 2:56 PM on December 27, 2015 [76 favorites]
I'm very sorry you are dealing with this.
posted by warriorqueen at 2:56 PM on December 27, 2015 [76 favorites]
I did read your entire post, but just from reading the title you wrote, my answer is "Hell No, you did totally the right thing."
posted by thatone at 2:57 PM on December 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by thatone at 2:57 PM on December 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
You did the right thing, and if you have made more of a scene you still would have done the right thing. It's not drama when it's actually happening.
The party host is a dangerous person who values his rape privilege more than other people's right to safety and while you will feel bad now about being treated so shittily, you will eventually feel better and hold your acquaintances to a higher standard.
You also may find yourself joined in happy ostracization by the better quality people in that group, so keep an ear out for any of them reaching out to you.
posted by Lyn Never at 3:00 PM on December 27, 2015 [19 favorites]
The party host is a dangerous person who values his rape privilege more than other people's right to safety and while you will feel bad now about being treated so shittily, you will eventually feel better and hold your acquaintances to a higher standard.
You also may find yourself joined in happy ostracization by the better quality people in that group, so keep an ear out for any of them reaching out to you.
posted by Lyn Never at 3:00 PM on December 27, 2015 [19 favorites]
Best answer: "The judgement of the second man, who I thought was a good friend, is a deeper violation and disappointment, so unexpected because he talks a very good game about progressive politics and feminist ideas. "
Metahawk's idea, plus include that. Your behavior was well within the stand-up-for-yourself normal expected behavior, not at all overreacting, dramatizing, or making a scene. I mean, I guess you could ask him how he thinks you should have handled unwanted touching, a second offense, if he's such a progressive feminist.
posted by ctmf at 3:05 PM on December 27, 2015 [15 favorites]
Metahawk's idea, plus include that. Your behavior was well within the stand-up-for-yourself normal expected behavior, not at all overreacting, dramatizing, or making a scene. I mean, I guess you could ask him how he thinks you should have handled unwanted touching, a second offense, if he's such a progressive feminist.
posted by ctmf at 3:05 PM on December 27, 2015 [15 favorites]
To be clear, that's not to imply "overreacting, dramatizing, or making a scene" is ever anything other than victim blaming, but in your case, you didn't even come close to giving even the most victim-blamey victim blamer any ammunition there.
posted by ctmf at 3:08 PM on December 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by ctmf at 3:08 PM on December 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
The host is a creepy piece of shit and you owe him and the serial groper absolutely nothing. No further explanations or justifications, and certainly no further friendship. You behaved 100% properly and acceptably according to any society on earth; honestly if some dude grabbed me at a party and I had to physically struggle with him to get his hands off of me there would have been blood and arrests.
posted by poffin boffin at 3:10 PM on December 27, 2015 [32 favorites]
posted by poffin boffin at 3:10 PM on December 27, 2015 [32 favorites]
Everyone else said it, but I want to add to the pile that you did nothing wrong. NOTHING. And you owe him no social consideration. NONE.
posted by kimberussell at 3:12 PM on December 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by kimberussell at 3:12 PM on December 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
I think being ostracized from these people would be a compliment.
posted by wintersweet at 3:14 PM on December 27, 2015 [34 favorites]
posted by wintersweet at 3:14 PM on December 27, 2015 [34 favorites]
You reacted COMPLETELY appropriately and you are WELL within your rights to call out the host as a creepy douchebag for supporting the aggressor rather than the person being aggressed and if you want to flame out absolutely everyone involved in this situation for being utter pieces of rape culture-y shit about this to you before you turn your ass around and march out to make friends who will support you when you're GROPED you are SO within your rights to do so and if it would make you feel better you should absolutely do it because oh my GOD what ASSHOLES.
posted by WidgetAlley at 3:15 PM on December 27, 2015 [11 favorites]
posted by WidgetAlley at 3:15 PM on December 27, 2015 [11 favorites]
You handled yourself admirably in a gross situation. Your terrible host acknowledges that it was an "intimate" touch and yet still thinks you should have yielded to it--he is the one who needs to re-examine his behavior. Whether or not you feel you can call your host out on that is something I can't gauge from your question.
I'm sorry you were treated so poorly, especially by your host. I, personally, would tell him that you responded appropriately to an inappropriately intimate touch from Guy 1 and that you hope Host will stop berating you about protecting your personal space and comfort. If anyone else brings it up (I don't think they will, given that it appears to be your host stirring shit), I would simply say "When Guy grabbed my hip in an intimate gesture, I told him unequivocally that I did not wish to be touched in that manner.That's what happened. I don't know why Host thinks what he does."
posted by crush-onastick at 3:23 PM on December 27, 2015 [3 favorites]
I'm sorry you were treated so poorly, especially by your host. I, personally, would tell him that you responded appropriately to an inappropriately intimate touch from Guy 1 and that you hope Host will stop berating you about protecting your personal space and comfort. If anyone else brings it up (I don't think they will, given that it appears to be your host stirring shit), I would simply say "When Guy grabbed my hip in an intimate gesture, I told him unequivocally that I did not wish to be touched in that manner.That's what happened. I don't know why Host thinks what he does."
posted by crush-onastick at 3:23 PM on December 27, 2015 [3 favorites]
I am aghast at the behavior of both of these people. That you had to make that firm a statement to stop the groper, and that you *told* your host about the first occurrence and it was allowed to happen a second time is unacceptable. The host's faulting of your need to defend yourself is more wrong than I have words for. I'm sorry you have been so badly failed by someone you thought was a friend. Please let yourself move on with the confidence that you rightly deserve to be around people who respect your boundaries, and respect you. (Respect anyone, for that matter.)
posted by AliceBlue at 3:28 PM on December 27, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by AliceBlue at 3:28 PM on December 27, 2015 [4 favorites]
The host claims YOU were the one "creating drama"?!? Good grief, what an idiot. You reacted EXTREMELY well to the jackass who groped you; you didn't cause any drama --- you were calm and correct in the face of what *could* be considered assault.
Keep an eye on the groper (sure he SAiD he'd never do it again, but he's already proven he can't be trusted) and also keep an eye on the host (because he's another dude who thinks it's perfectly okay for a man to fondle any woman he wants to).
posted by easily confused at 3:30 PM on December 27, 2015 [5 favorites]
Keep an eye on the groper (sure he SAiD he'd never do it again, but he's already proven he can't be trusted) and also keep an eye on the host (because he's another dude who thinks it's perfectly okay for a man to fondle any woman he wants to).
posted by easily confused at 3:30 PM on December 27, 2015 [5 favorites]
Considering that I would have yelled and carpet bombed the place with loud swears to ensure everyone knew what happened (because I'm tactless like that), you handled it with grace and restraint. You went over and beyond. If you are kicked out of this group it is truly their loss not yours.
posted by St. Peepsburg at 3:36 PM on December 27, 2015 [9 favorites]
posted by St. Peepsburg at 3:36 PM on December 27, 2015 [9 favorites]
The short answer is: Friends Don't Let Friends Asses Get Grabbed. (TM)
posted by Freedomboy at 3:37 PM on December 27, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by Freedomboy at 3:37 PM on December 27, 2015 [7 favorites]
You owe them the natural consequences of their behavior - i.e. no longer associating with them as a friend/ally - if you owe them anything at all. Really, you don't owe them anything, but I strongly suggest you drop them like you'd drop a stinky bag of flaming poo.
My guess is that the Groper has told the Host a version of the events extremely favorable to his own ego, but no matter how the Host got to his opinions he's still treating you like crap and making the world a worse place. Ugh.
posted by SMPA at 3:42 PM on December 27, 2015 [5 favorites]
My guess is that the Groper has told the Host a version of the events extremely favorable to his own ego, but no matter how the Host got to his opinions he's still treating you like crap and making the world a worse place. Ugh.
posted by SMPA at 3:42 PM on December 27, 2015 [5 favorites]
Was the onus on me to pursue a solution that would have spared him whatever small embarrassment he suffered?
Emphatically no. If that guy didn't want to be embarrassed, he shouldn't have done something so inappropriate.
You did the brave, right thing and you should be proud of yourself. I'm sorry that it happened to you and I'm sorry your host is being such a gross asshole apologist about it. If you do get ostracized from the group, there might at least be a silver lining (apart from your getting to avoid horrible gropers) of the guy's groping now being more out in the open among the friend group. The more people like this get called out, the less people will defend them.
posted by Metroid Baby at 3:55 PM on December 27, 2015 [10 favorites]
Emphatically no. If that guy didn't want to be embarrassed, he shouldn't have done something so inappropriate.
You did the brave, right thing and you should be proud of yourself. I'm sorry that it happened to you and I'm sorry your host is being such a gross asshole apologist about it. If you do get ostracized from the group, there might at least be a silver lining (apart from your getting to avoid horrible gropers) of the guy's groping now being more out in the open among the friend group. The more people like this get called out, the less people will defend them.
posted by Metroid Baby at 3:55 PM on December 27, 2015 [10 favorites]
You did nothing wrong, your "friends" are assholes. Write them off, move on, life is too short for spending another nanosecond around those people.
posted by dbiedny at 4:02 PM on December 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by dbiedny at 4:02 PM on December 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
That is the least dramatic, most reasonable possible reaction I can even imagine. It would have been perhaps over-dramatic to pick up a knife and attempt to saw his fingers off where they were touching you, but since you didn't do that it is clear that Host is scum and should be dropped along with the Gropy friend he is identifying with. I'm sorry that these people have turned out so disappointing and I hope that either there are better people in that group who will have your back, or you find a better group soon.
posted by the agents of KAOS at 4:09 PM on December 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by the agents of KAOS at 4:09 PM on December 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
Just adding one more "good for you" for telling the creep to take his hands off you. The host is way out of line, not you. Too many women for years have put up with behavior like this and worse out of embarrassment and fear of making a scene. You did not make a scene, no matter what the host says. You do not need "friends" like this.
posted by mermayd at 4:18 PM on December 27, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by mermayd at 4:18 PM on December 27, 2015 [3 favorites]
Sounds to me like an angry and embarrassed Groper has complained to Host about how he was "merely" trying to give you a hug and you overreacted and shamed him in front of everyone and blah blah blah. If Others at the party are upset as Host has claimed, it is probably because Groper has been talking to Others and giving them the same line of bullshit as well. He could be yanking everyone's chain and intimidating them into feeling uncomfortable and somehow managing to shift the blame for this discomfort onto you. He's stirring up the drama himself in order to get his own version of events out there first in hopes of shaping the narrative in his own favor. Manipulative people have a knack for this kind of shit.
If you are interested in trying to salvage your ties with this social group you might want to reach out to some of the Others with whom you are friendly, see what they have heard and tell your side of the story. They may not be aware, and you could find allies.
As far as how you handled the incident itself, I think you were perfect. Men like him count on women being too embarrassed to make a scene in the crowd; and I'll wager the reason he grabbed your hip instead of grabbing your ass outright is so if you did make a scene, he could claim he meant no harm and you simply overreacted. Which is exactly what he is doing. What a creepy, manipulative jerk.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 4:32 PM on December 27, 2015 [13 favorites]
If you are interested in trying to salvage your ties with this social group you might want to reach out to some of the Others with whom you are friendly, see what they have heard and tell your side of the story. They may not be aware, and you could find allies.
As far as how you handled the incident itself, I think you were perfect. Men like him count on women being too embarrassed to make a scene in the crowd; and I'll wager the reason he grabbed your hip instead of grabbing your ass outright is so if you did make a scene, he could claim he meant no harm and you simply overreacted. Which is exactly what he is doing. What a creepy, manipulative jerk.
posted by Serene Empress Dork at 4:32 PM on December 27, 2015 [13 favorites]
Best answer: You can tell the host the Internet would like a word with him and then show him this thread.
No, you weren't in the wrong. The host is wrong.
posted by meese at 4:35 PM on December 27, 2015 [44 favorites]
No, you weren't in the wrong. The host is wrong.
posted by meese at 4:35 PM on December 27, 2015 [44 favorites]
Once again, we see that the man who crows loudly that he's a feminist is hardly that at all. It's so beyond the pale that he'd continue to invite a groper to his parties (I'm positive you're not the first to endure his assaults) and then blame the victim for "bringing drama." What a misogynist piece of trash. You behaved with remarkable restraint and have done nothing wrong at all. You host apparently thinks that the women he invites into his precious sactuary are largely there for the quiet enjoyment of his rapey creep bro friends. I'm so sorry that this happened to you.
posted by quince at 4:46 PM on December 27, 2015 [16 favorites]
posted by quince at 4:46 PM on December 27, 2015 [16 favorites]
I think you handled this PERFECTLY CORRECTLY, and I also suspect that there are other women in this group who also are well aware that the Groper is handsy; if I were you, I would be curious to chat with some of them about what THEY think about what went on.
That said, I just want to add my voice to the chorus: You were absolutely in the right in the way you handed it, and these two dudes are wrong, wrong, wrong. You know that old saying, "when someone tells you who they are, believe them?" The host just told you who he is with this shitty reaction. Which sucks -- but now you know.
Also, just so you know: I am SO PISSED OFF on your behalf about this. I want to go back in time with you and stab this dude in the hand with a fork.
posted by Countess Sandwich at 5:07 PM on December 27, 2015 [11 favorites]
That said, I just want to add my voice to the chorus: You were absolutely in the right in the way you handed it, and these two dudes are wrong, wrong, wrong. You know that old saying, "when someone tells you who they are, believe them?" The host just told you who he is with this shitty reaction. Which sucks -- but now you know.
Also, just so you know: I am SO PISSED OFF on your behalf about this. I want to go back in time with you and stab this dude in the hand with a fork.
posted by Countess Sandwich at 5:07 PM on December 27, 2015 [11 favorites]
I think this is a real betrayal by your friend and I would tell him how hurtful it is. I would also remind yourself that social predatory behavior depends, in part, on the support of other people looking the other way or pretending it's no big deal. You are being labeled as the problem, which is common for the person who draws boundaries or points out a problem. My suggestion is to not try and change how your friend is reacting (it won't work) but to tell him how his reaction is impacting you. Same with the other people. If this happened to me and my friend accused me of creating drama that would be the end of the friendship. These kinds of things are often very anxiety-producing while they are happening and you experience fear of losing something you have, without realizing what you might gain. Human beings are wired to fear loss and rejection, so anxiety is normal and you can feel the anxiety without doing anything about it. It will pass.
posted by orsonet at 5:30 PM on December 27, 2015 [15 favorites]
posted by orsonet at 5:30 PM on December 27, 2015 [15 favorites]
I think the host showed his true colors (and showed he didn't deserve you as a friend) when you told him about the first incident and he INVITED THIS GUY TO ANOTHER PARTY!
A real friend would have told this loser where to stick his intimate hugs and bid him farewell for life after just one episode of inappropriate touching. Seriously. Who would want to spend a relaxing evening around a guy like that? What "hug", however intimate, involves touching thighs? There is so much wrong here.
posted by treehorn+bunny at 5:31 PM on December 27, 2015 [7 favorites]
A real friend would have told this loser where to stick his intimate hugs and bid him farewell for life after just one episode of inappropriate touching. Seriously. Who would want to spend a relaxing evening around a guy like that? What "hug", however intimate, involves touching thighs? There is so much wrong here.
posted by treehorn+bunny at 5:31 PM on December 27, 2015 [7 favorites]
Just wanted to say that even if it WAS a "harmless hug" or pat on the shoulder, it's totally within your right to tell him to not touch you. It doesn't matter the reason behind it or if it was "innocent" or not. It's your body.
I'd really stay away from all these people. I would be worried that others will also invade your personal space and push your boundaries while thinking they're in the right to do so. Asking someone to get their hands off you, even if you did it loudly, is not "drama."
posted by Crystalinne at 6:04 PM on December 27, 2015 [10 favorites]
I'd really stay away from all these people. I would be worried that others will also invade your personal space and push your boundaries while thinking they're in the right to do so. Asking someone to get their hands off you, even if you did it loudly, is not "drama."
posted by Crystalinne at 6:04 PM on December 27, 2015 [10 favorites]
grabbing your hip while standing behind you isn't a hug. having to pry someone's hands off of any part of your body is inappropriate groping. it's an exact right accusation and if there were social consequences for him (which there are seemingly not since you're improperly being blamed for this), it would be because of actions he made, not you asserting your boundaries. you did nothing wrong. the host has shown himself to be the supporter of a man who says the right things instead of believing you, a woman, about your lived experience. he is just as dangerous as mr. handsy. it's hard to leave a social circle, but these aren't good people to be around.
posted by nadawi at 6:23 PM on December 27, 2015 [15 favorites]
posted by nadawi at 6:23 PM on December 27, 2015 [15 favorites]
You owe him fucking nothing. And might be time to re evaluate whether these people are friends. They're covering for him.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 6:26 PM on December 27, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 6:26 PM on December 27, 2015 [8 favorites]
Response by poster: Thanks everyone! The (near) unanimous support really helped me today. I decided to distance myself from them, which is just as well since it appears I am now persona non grata in their home.
posted by ljshapiro at 6:47 PM on December 27, 2015 [26 favorites]
posted by ljshapiro at 6:47 PM on December 27, 2015 [26 favorites]
since it appears I am now persona non grata in their home.
I know many people have said this upthread, but damn, you are much, much better off without them. Screw those people. You deserve better.
posted by zarq at 7:07 PM on December 27, 2015 [18 favorites]
I know many people have said this upthread, but damn, you are much, much better off without them. Screw those people. You deserve better.
posted by zarq at 7:07 PM on December 27, 2015 [18 favorites]
“He hugs very intimately.”
Hahahahahaha. SUCH bullshit. That's hilarious and priceless. Life doesn't hand out such pearls of crystallized foolishness very often. Do you have friends who can turn it into some sort of inside joke? It definitely deserves to be a punchline.
posted by salvia at 7:38 PM on December 27, 2015 [19 favorites]
Hahahahahaha. SUCH bullshit. That's hilarious and priceless. Life doesn't hand out such pearls of crystallized foolishness very often. Do you have friends who can turn it into some sort of inside joke? It definitely deserves to be a punchline.
posted by salvia at 7:38 PM on December 27, 2015 [19 favorites]
Considering this is violation #2, I'm willing to bet there are other women in your friend group who have had their boundaries crossed in unwanted ways. They may not want to cause drama and they may be scared of ostracization. I think this man has "intimately hugged" (or worse) lots of women, and the host is one of his enablers. Privately lean on your network of women in this group and find out if you're an outlier. You're almost certainly not. See if some stories come out. If it turns out one or both (or more) of these guys have a history of violating comfort zones, and they've gotten away with it through a mixture of their social status, charm, and strategies from the rape culture playbook, then figure out next steps from there. I'd say it's about time they're called out for it. Loudly. It'll just keep happening unless it's out in the open.
posted by naju at 7:43 PM on December 27, 2015 [11 favorites]
posted by naju at 7:43 PM on December 27, 2015 [11 favorites]
Yeah, you called out the groper (in a totally reasonable way -- though I think you could have screamed at him and it still would have been reasonable) who was ashamed and embarrassed... And then, I'm guessing, he was worried you were going to talk about what happened and went on the offensive and made up some stupid lie to tell your host.
Your host should have asked you first for your take. He was wrong.
I'm going to guess you aren't the first woman in your circle who has dealt with this. You might try reaching out to some of them, if you want.
I'm sorry. You are being held responsible for bad behavior of someone else towards you. It's awful, it sucks.
posted by bluedaisy at 7:47 PM on December 27, 2015 [3 favorites]
Your host should have asked you first for your take. He was wrong.
I'm going to guess you aren't the first woman in your circle who has dealt with this. You might try reaching out to some of them, if you want.
I'm sorry. You are being held responsible for bad behavior of someone else towards you. It's awful, it sucks.
posted by bluedaisy at 7:47 PM on December 27, 2015 [3 favorites]
I'm way down this thread and seriously n-thing but just let me add a very clear "fuck literally everyone involved". He sounds like a scary prick and the host is the worst kind of garbage. You owe actually less social consideration than you've given. Don't be ostracized. Be the ostracizer. Seriously. Fuck them.
posted by chasles at 7:59 PM on December 27, 2015 [12 favorites]
posted by chasles at 7:59 PM on December 27, 2015 [12 favorites]
What were you supposed to do, drop to the floor, roll over, and spread your legs?
The host is a fucking jerk, come ON.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:08 PM on December 27, 2015 [7 favorites]
The host is a fucking jerk, come ON.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:08 PM on December 27, 2015 [7 favorites]
You shouldn't feel like you have an obligation to follow up with other women in that social circle, but if you wanted to, I think it would be completely justified in the interest of preventing those guys from hurting other women and not at all mere idle gossip or shit-stirring.
The only obligation here is that dude #1 has an obligation to stop with the uninvited groping and fake-feminist dude #2 has an obligation to look out for the safety of his guests, making that a higher priority than soothing his buddy's butthurt entitlement.
posted by straight at 8:26 PM on December 27, 2015 [6 favorites]
The only obligation here is that dude #1 has an obligation to stop with the uninvited groping and fake-feminist dude #2 has an obligation to look out for the safety of his guests, making that a higher priority than soothing his buddy's butthurt entitlement.
posted by straight at 8:26 PM on December 27, 2015 [6 favorites]
Ugh, both of these guys are the worst. So you got this email out of the blue from Host, right? My guess is that Groper went immediately to Host that evening and lied to him about what happened in order to forestall the possibility of you telling on him. "I just went to give ljshapiro a hug and she, she just screamed at me, man! Made this awful scene and I was just saying hi like I say to everyone! She was all making crazy accusations and it was just bizarre!"
Good riddance to both of these turds and their circle of turd friends. Ugh! And kudos for you for saying something IN THE MOMENT when it is so easy to freeze up.
posted by fingersandtoes at 8:40 PM on December 27, 2015 [5 favorites]
Good riddance to both of these turds and their circle of turd friends. Ugh! And kudos for you for saying something IN THE MOMENT when it is so easy to freeze up.
posted by fingersandtoes at 8:40 PM on December 27, 2015 [5 favorites]
Was the onus on me to pursue a solution that would have spared him whatever small embarrassment he suffered?
God, no. And I would bet a ton of money that you are not anywhere near the first woman he's done this to.
We just (literally, this evening) hosted a party that involved quantities of alcohol, and everyone ended up in our not-huge kitchen (because party! and human behavior!) and on more than one occasion I had to squeeze past a guest in order to get to something important and in none of those instances did I have to inappropriately or invasively clutch, touch, grope, or hug anyone in order to get by or say hello thank you for coming so glad to see you. It is not rocket surgery, and both this dude and the host are assholes and you are well rid of them. I'm really sorry this happened to you.
posted by rtha at 10:09 PM on December 27, 2015 [11 favorites]
God, no. And I would bet a ton of money that you are not anywhere near the first woman he's done this to.
We just (literally, this evening) hosted a party that involved quantities of alcohol, and everyone ended up in our not-huge kitchen (because party! and human behavior!) and on more than one occasion I had to squeeze past a guest in order to get to something important and in none of those instances did I have to inappropriately or invasively clutch, touch, grope, or hug anyone in order to get by or say hello thank you for coming so glad to see you. It is not rocket surgery, and both this dude and the host are assholes and you are well rid of them. I'm really sorry this happened to you.
posted by rtha at 10:09 PM on December 27, 2015 [11 favorites]
Just in case one more reply helps: I think you were very reasonable and I am proud of you and UGH to grouper and DOUBLE UGH to his skeevy friend standing up for him. You could've made the biggest fuss at the time and it would've been appropriate because his behaviour emphatically wasn't. I am disgusted at the host blaming you. I mean, what's the biggest societal issue - violence against women or "people causing drama" (unnoticed at the time) at parties.
I guess at least now you know the groper isn't the worst person in the group.
I'm really sorry this happened to you.
posted by kitten magic at 10:14 PM on December 27, 2015 [8 favorites]
I guess at least now you know the groper isn't the worst person in the group.
I'm really sorry this happened to you.
posted by kitten magic at 10:14 PM on December 27, 2015 [8 favorites]
You handled this exactly right and your friend is an asshole who's covering for the group's Missing Stair.
posted by MsMolly at 11:15 PM on December 27, 2015 [18 favorites]
posted by MsMolly at 11:15 PM on December 27, 2015 [18 favorites]
I too am sorry you had to suffer the attentions of a creep and even worse, have his behavior explained away by your so-called friend (the Host). Your accounting makes me wonder if Host condones or even participates in the same kind of contact as your groper. I think everyone has the right to tell anyone who needs to hear it, "Don't touch me like that! It's inappropriate. You're crossing boundaries." I admire your careful phrasing and restraint in this situation!
You were entirely in the right to stand up for yourself immediately and your "friend" and his groping guest need a good slap upside their heads.
posted by Lynsey at 11:30 PM on December 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
You were entirely in the right to stand up for yourself immediately and your "friend" and his groping guest need a good slap upside their heads.
posted by Lynsey at 11:30 PM on December 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
If the responses you get from the women in the group are to the effect of "he's harmless, he's just socially awkward, just ignore it", any or all of the geek social fallacies they're not your friends either.
posted by brujita at 12:19 AM on December 28, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by brujita at 12:19 AM on December 28, 2015 [5 favorites]
Wow, gropey groper and enabling friend group really deserve each other. They showed their true colors.
posted by Omnomnom at 1:20 AM on December 28, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by Omnomnom at 1:20 AM on December 28, 2015 [3 favorites]
Best answer: If you are, and continue to be friends with other women involved in this group... you will eventually hear, or hear of, a story of this happening again. Or something worse.
It might not be the same guy even, but you will. And it will also be a shit situation because everyone will be telling them to calm down and shut up too. You might hear about it one on one but that person will just keep being around and there will be no greater public discussion of it because "that's drama" and isn't cool.
I've wrote about this a lot on here before, in the original threads in which that missing stair article was posted. But yea, as others have said above, your life is better off not being involved with these people if they suddenly don't want you around. You've seen how the Big Cool Person in the group who owns/runs the space reacted, and while you might get some support in private one on one from others, that's how the wind always seems to blow once the tone is set.
The way this was handled is a fucking dumpster fire, and i've seen it way too many times. There's whole groups of people whose company i generally really enjoyed i've drifted away from or cut off because of crap like this.
And seriously, i'm better off for it. You will be too. Excusing this and telling you you're wrong for doing anything but taking it silently is the tip of the fucking iceberg when it comes to allowing much worse stuff to go on and then turning and burning the victim.
I could also write something at least the length of this entire post on Super Feminist Guys who talk big game and then Bro Down the instant something like this happens. Ughhhhhhhh.
posted by emptythought at 2:55 AM on December 28, 2015 [29 favorites]
It might not be the same guy even, but you will. And it will also be a shit situation because everyone will be telling them to calm down and shut up too. You might hear about it one on one but that person will just keep being around and there will be no greater public discussion of it because "that's drama" and isn't cool.
I've wrote about this a lot on here before, in the original threads in which that missing stair article was posted. But yea, as others have said above, your life is better off not being involved with these people if they suddenly don't want you around. You've seen how the Big Cool Person in the group who owns/runs the space reacted, and while you might get some support in private one on one from others, that's how the wind always seems to blow once the tone is set.
The way this was handled is a fucking dumpster fire, and i've seen it way too many times. There's whole groups of people whose company i generally really enjoyed i've drifted away from or cut off because of crap like this.
And seriously, i'm better off for it. You will be too. Excusing this and telling you you're wrong for doing anything but taking it silently is the tip of the fucking iceberg when it comes to allowing much worse stuff to go on and then turning and burning the victim.
I could also write something at least the length of this entire post on Super Feminist Guys who talk big game and then Bro Down the instant something like this happens. Ughhhhhhhh.
posted by emptythought at 2:55 AM on December 28, 2015 [29 favorites]
The way this was handled is a fucking dumpster fire, and i've seen it way too many times. There's whole groups of people whose company i generally really enjoyed i've drifted away from or cut off because of crap like this.
Nthing. If I had a dollar for every time men bro'd up to protect other shifty men at the expense of a lovely woman, I would be rich. More than often it's even with men they themselves don't trust, but I guess being a man trumps that?! Christ it can be infuriating.
One of the shittiest parts of this kind of rank sexism is, like, men who do this, do you realize what awesome women friends you're losing? Because seriously, they're worth thousands of crappy shifty opportunistic dudes like this who one day will be just as crappy with you, and guess what, you will have no more lovely, trustworthy women friends to fall back on. That or their (this type of man's) lives become empty shells of meaninglessness. It's quite startling to witness when this type of man hits their 50s.
I have also seen that many times, if karmic schadenfreude can help at all.
Go continue being the lovely person you are with friends who treat you well. And if you feel comfortable doing so, nthing reach out to women in the circle. But only with those your gut feels safe around.
posted by fraula at 3:23 AM on December 28, 2015 [17 favorites]
Nthing. If I had a dollar for every time men bro'd up to protect other shifty men at the expense of a lovely woman, I would be rich. More than often it's even with men they themselves don't trust, but I guess being a man trumps that?! Christ it can be infuriating.
One of the shittiest parts of this kind of rank sexism is, like, men who do this, do you realize what awesome women friends you're losing? Because seriously, they're worth thousands of crappy shifty opportunistic dudes like this who one day will be just as crappy with you, and guess what, you will have no more lovely, trustworthy women friends to fall back on. That or their (this type of man's) lives become empty shells of meaninglessness. It's quite startling to witness when this type of man hits their 50s.
I have also seen that many times, if karmic schadenfreude can help at all.
Go continue being the lovely person you are with friends who treat you well. And if you feel comfortable doing so, nthing reach out to women in the circle. But only with those your gut feels safe around.
posted by fraula at 3:23 AM on December 28, 2015 [17 favorites]
Yea. Seriously, fuck that guy. I mean, even taking the most ridiculously favorable view of the groper -- e.g., that he has serious personal space and boundary issues but isn't a perv and didn't mean any harm -- the host owes it to his groped and potentially-groped friends to take it up with that guy and ask him to stop, not to dump on the people that don't want some rando giving them a hip massage in the kitchen. It's shocking to me that you not only didn't get an apology, but were actually blamed. In conclusion, fuck that guy.
posted by slkinsey at 5:52 AM on December 28, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by slkinsey at 5:52 AM on December 28, 2015 [7 favorites]
So how exactly did host discover that you rejected the Groper's groping? I smell two rats, one is Groper, the second is Host. Did Groper actually gripe that you were mean to him or some such?!? 'Wah, OP didn't let me play grabass like all the other ladies do, wah she's so mean to me Host.' What a sack of shit. Host's reaction is actually worse imo than Groper's behavior. Time for new friends.
If Host has a female partner or another female he would listen to, you could meet that woman and come up behind her and do exactly what Groper did to you, she will back you up on the inappropriateness of this asshole. On second thought, don't bother, I agree being ostracized by these people is a compliment. I just wrote that to tell you, your reaction was correct and in fact mild compared to what some women would do. Some women would yell and/or slap the shit out of Groper. I prefer a kick in the nuts, it gives them immediate pain and a lasting fear of the kicker. That's the nuclear option though.
posted by RichardHenryYarbo at 9:08 AM on December 28, 2015 [5 favorites]
If Host has a female partner or another female he would listen to, you could meet that woman and come up behind her and do exactly what Groper did to you, she will back you up on the inappropriateness of this asshole. On second thought, don't bother, I agree being ostracized by these people is a compliment. I just wrote that to tell you, your reaction was correct and in fact mild compared to what some women would do. Some women would yell and/or slap the shit out of Groper. I prefer a kick in the nuts, it gives them immediate pain and a lasting fear of the kicker. That's the nuclear option though.
posted by RichardHenryYarbo at 9:08 AM on December 28, 2015 [5 favorites]
It sounds like he knew you would tell the host about it, so he tried to pre-empt you by giving them his version of the story: 'I gave LJ this innocent hug, and then she freaked out and accused me of groping her. What a drama queen, am I right?'
If an opportunity arises, you could point out these friends that they could have just *asked* you what happened, rather than reacting blindly to his description of the incident.
On the other hand, given the dickishness of everyone involved here, maybe it is better to just get some distance between you and these knuckleheads.
posted by Tenzing_Norgay at 11:25 AM on December 28, 2015 [4 favorites]
If an opportunity arises, you could point out these friends that they could have just *asked* you what happened, rather than reacting blindly to his description of the incident.
On the other hand, given the dickishness of everyone involved here, maybe it is better to just get some distance between you and these knuckleheads.
posted by Tenzing_Norgay at 11:25 AM on December 28, 2015 [4 favorites]
I will bet a shiny Internet nickel that Groper doesn't "hug" men in this "intimate" fashion, and that if he had performed this exact same violation on Host, that Host would have reacted in a far less measured and controlled fashion.
posted by KathrynT at 12:19 PM on December 28, 2015 [15 favorites]
posted by KathrynT at 12:19 PM on December 28, 2015 [15 favorites]
Know what I once did in a similar situation? I bit the guy. That, maybe, possibly, could be considered an overreaction. Anything short of that is perfectly reasonable.
posted by The corpse in the library at 12:32 PM on December 28, 2015 [17 favorites]
posted by The corpse in the library at 12:32 PM on December 28, 2015 [17 favorites]
If Host has a female partner or another female he would listen to, you could meet that woman and come up behind her and do exactly what Groper did to you, she will back you up on the inappropriateness of this asshole.
Betcha a huge stack of just about anything that Host Guys partner is on team bro-down and is also completely sold at face value on the "stupid histrionic drama queen" narrative.
It's depressing and might seem kind of harsh/mean/gross, but time and time again(having been in many geek social fallacy-laden scenarios) it's just... what happens. Birds of a feather combined with the social pressure to see that as the obvious answer.
I wouldn't even begin to count on anyone who didn't approach you first, or with whom you weren't already good one on one friends to not pull that.
So how exactly did host discover that you rejected the Groper's groping? I smell two rats, one is Groper, the second is Host. Did Groper actually gripe that you were mean to him or some such?!? 'Wah, OP didn't let me play grabass like all the other ladies do, wah she's so mean to me Host.' What a sack of shit.
Nah, it's usually much more subtle than that. I bet he pre-emptively went to the host guy and was like "Hey, so i had this awkward moment with ljshapiro, and i'm sure it's going to become a thing. So i just wanted to talk to you first for a bit about it so you know What Really Happened."
That, is how brodowns start. What you saw is the result of the brodown. The core of broing down is the shitty guy having a one on one heart to heart with whoever they want support from. Sure, there's automatic he'd-never-do-thats but this one reeks of an end run like that where he wanted to get out in front of it.
This has likely been a honed skill for Shitty Guy since, ugh, fucking high school. But yea, i suspect he went to the host and told his version, which is of course now the canonical real version and now there's "two sides and the truth is somewhere between". That guy might have done something kind of awkward, but you're trying to drag him and so you're Both Wrong. And it's now "drama".
Not that Host Guy isn't a shit here too. He is. It's just that guys like this know that if they tell a calm, downplayed, not that big of a deal version of the story then they already have a lead on a woman who did the same. Defending accusations like this is always seen as a more reasonable than making them to, well i'd say certain kinds, but honestly an awful lot of people. Sigh.
posted by emptythought at 12:35 PM on December 28, 2015 [12 favorites]
Betcha a huge stack of just about anything that Host Guys partner is on team bro-down and is also completely sold at face value on the "stupid histrionic drama queen" narrative.
It's depressing and might seem kind of harsh/mean/gross, but time and time again(having been in many geek social fallacy-laden scenarios) it's just... what happens. Birds of a feather combined with the social pressure to see that as the obvious answer.
I wouldn't even begin to count on anyone who didn't approach you first, or with whom you weren't already good one on one friends to not pull that.
So how exactly did host discover that you rejected the Groper's groping? I smell two rats, one is Groper, the second is Host. Did Groper actually gripe that you were mean to him or some such?!? 'Wah, OP didn't let me play grabass like all the other ladies do, wah she's so mean to me Host.' What a sack of shit.
Nah, it's usually much more subtle than that. I bet he pre-emptively went to the host guy and was like "Hey, so i had this awkward moment with ljshapiro, and i'm sure it's going to become a thing. So i just wanted to talk to you first for a bit about it so you know What Really Happened."
That, is how brodowns start. What you saw is the result of the brodown. The core of broing down is the shitty guy having a one on one heart to heart with whoever they want support from. Sure, there's automatic he'd-never-do-thats but this one reeks of an end run like that where he wanted to get out in front of it.
This has likely been a honed skill for Shitty Guy since, ugh, fucking high school. But yea, i suspect he went to the host and told his version, which is of course now the canonical real version and now there's "two sides and the truth is somewhere between". That guy might have done something kind of awkward, but you're trying to drag him and so you're Both Wrong. And it's now "drama".
Not that Host Guy isn't a shit here too. He is. It's just that guys like this know that if they tell a calm, downplayed, not that big of a deal version of the story then they already have a lead on a woman who did the same. Defending accusations like this is always seen as a more reasonable than making them to, well i'd say certain kinds, but honestly an awful lot of people. Sigh.
posted by emptythought at 12:35 PM on December 28, 2015 [12 favorites]
I think you under-reacted, compared to what I would have done in your place (there is not a soul in the building who would not have known about it by the time I was finished shouting about it). Your host and his creepy mates should think themselves lucky you were so polite about it. I cannot imagine how you could possibly have been more understated in saying "no" - I suspect the actual problem is that you did say no, rather than just putting up with it like a good sport. Tough for them.
Get new friends, dump these ones, don't look back.
posted by tinkletown at 2:17 PM on December 28, 2015 [4 favorites]
Get new friends, dump these ones, don't look back.
posted by tinkletown at 2:17 PM on December 28, 2015 [4 favorites]
This guy should be the one in an anxious lather about his behaviour, not you.
posted by NatalieWood at 8:04 PM on December 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by NatalieWood at 8:04 PM on December 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
FFS! Fuck the guy and the host and that other guy who did nothing. Losers are they all. I still remember walking in Adams-Morgan DC with a high school friend of mine and a guy approached us for some reason or another. She said something like, "NO! GO AWAY!" in a very loud voice and that voice has inspired me since then. This friend has lived in a lot of foreign cities where it's even more common for men to hit on women on the street, and I think her approach is fantastic and totally reasonable. You should never ever be afraid or ashamed of calling out someone being inappropriate or insulting. Ugh.
posted by bendy at 9:48 PM on December 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by bendy at 9:48 PM on December 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
You responded so rightly and so well that I'm reading and re-reading your post just for the inspiration of it. To remind myself what a good, strong, assertive self-defense looks like.
posted by the_blizz at 10:44 AM on December 29, 2015 [11 favorites]
posted by the_blizz at 10:44 AM on December 29, 2015 [11 favorites]
please email him this thread, if only to break his circle of confirmation bias.
Host: you are not a feminist. You are a hypocrite and in many ways worse than those who are sexist but at least are honest about where they stand.
posted by Tarumba at 6:15 AM on December 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
Host: you are not a feminist. You are a hypocrite and in many ways worse than those who are sexist but at least are honest about where they stand.
posted by Tarumba at 6:15 AM on December 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
Another example of how a guy gets caught doing something inappropriate, and then gets his nose out of joint because you didn't do the emotional labor to make him feel better about his bad behavior.
And then the host piling on for exactly the same reason.
SMPA raises a good point in that maybe the host did not hear a version of events that matches your own (maybe he even heard that you yelled at the groper, or otherwise did cause drama, when your version does not match that).
Nthing try to keep in touch with the women, at least. As a matter of fact, since the groper has gone on an offensive campaign to defend himself to the group, AND since you are distancing yourself from the group anyway and so have less to lose, I would start talking to each member of the group and telling them your version of events. A few might still say you are causing drama, but you were going to lose them as friends anyway, so who cares - speak your truth!
posted by vignettist at 9:43 AM on December 30, 2015
And then the host piling on for exactly the same reason.
SMPA raises a good point in that maybe the host did not hear a version of events that matches your own (maybe he even heard that you yelled at the groper, or otherwise did cause drama, when your version does not match that).
Nthing try to keep in touch with the women, at least. As a matter of fact, since the groper has gone on an offensive campaign to defend himself to the group, AND since you are distancing yourself from the group anyway and so have less to lose, I would start talking to each member of the group and telling them your version of events. A few might still say you are causing drama, but you were going to lose them as friends anyway, so who cares - speak your truth!
posted by vignettist at 9:43 AM on December 30, 2015
While it's not always true, he who smelt it, delt it. Mr. No-Drama-Llama is the one continuing the drama. This is a nothing thing that you tactfully dealt with. As a lady, you are well trained in the art of staying low-key about routine invasions of your personal space and boundaries!
I almost have this fantasy of going full confrontational with this shitty host - Did he see anything? Why is bringing this up? Is everyone talking about you behind your back? Why does he think he gets to decide how you ask people to treat your body? If he wants everyone to forget it, why doesn't he shut the hell up? But I know in reality this would only end badly - he obviously is looking for a fight and loves drama, despite his claims.
posted by Gor-ella at 10:36 AM on December 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
I almost have this fantasy of going full confrontational with this shitty host - Did he see anything? Why is bringing this up? Is everyone talking about you behind your back? Why does he think he gets to decide how you ask people to treat your body? If he wants everyone to forget it, why doesn't he shut the hell up? But I know in reality this would only end badly - he obviously is looking for a fight and loves drama, despite his claims.
posted by Gor-ella at 10:36 AM on December 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
Scrolled immediately to the end to say this guy is an asshole, the host emailing you is an asshole, you handled yourself magnificently, and bravo. Which is what I'm fairly confident AskMe has already said. Because, GAH.
posted by snuffleupagus at 10:19 PM on December 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by snuffleupagus at 10:19 PM on December 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
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I'm very sorry this happened.
posted by DarlingBri at 2:43 PM on December 27, 2015 [221 favorites]