Neuroplasticity and IBS - What can you tell me?

December 14, 2015 12:49 PM

I posted about radical approaches in healing for IBS previously. I've been researching Neuroplasticity training, specifically DNRS (Dynamic Neural Retraining System). There is scant research on Neuroplasticity and IBS. Does anyone have experience with this?

The idea put forth in "Wired for Healing" by the founder of the DNRS system claims that an initial trauma (could be an experience, like being a victim of violence, or an infection, virus, other bodily trauma) causes a brain injury which messes with the limbic system and creates a fight-or-flight pattern that doesn't allow the body to heal. This resonates with me given my experience with IBS.

My previous post:
http://ask.metafilter.com/284989/Radical-approaches-in-healing-your-experience-wanted

So...ideas, experience, suggestions?

posted by falcon42 to Health & Fitness (10 answers total)

That idea sounds pretty silly to me, and I have done a lot of "woo" alternative medicine stuff.

The body favors homeostasis. Trying to intentionally move the needle on anything is hard work. Infections are living organisms. If they go on long enough, like crocodiles or termites, they will terraform their environment to make it more friendly to themselves. Just look up the term "biofilm" for some insight into how bacteria are known to do this.

Your gut is about 70% of your immune system. Once your gut is seriously out of whack, trying to fix things is challenging because your immune system is fundamentally compromised.

Some things known to help heal the gut:

Eat clean.
Take probiotics.
Take MCT oil or add an MCT oil, like coconut oil, to your diet.
Celtic brand sea salt
Aloe vera

I found it extremely helpful to eat homemade mashed potatoes made with Celtic sea salt and organic butter. I sometimes added coconut oil. I did this daily for about 8 months.

Improving my gut function took a long time and diarrhea was a frequent side effect of doing things that helped. But I participated for a time in an alternative med discussion group online, so I had a good idea of what to expect. If you are doing alternative remedies on your own without either guidance from someone like a naturopath or support group, I imagine frequent diarrhea as part of the healing process would not look like progress to you. It would likely look like ongoing symptoms of intestinal issues.

So perhaps you should seek some kind of ongoing guidance. Posting questions periodically to AskMe does not constitute ongoing guidance. If you are largely going it alone without guidance or support of some sort, you will lack checks and balances and necessary feedback. That situation makes it incredibly difficult to chart an effective path forward, stay the course during challenging moments and course correct when necessary. Outside feedback from informed, experienced people is critical to the process of figuring out when you should stay the course and when you should course correct.

So either find some kind of medical professional who is open to the kinds of approaches that interest you, or find a support group of some sort.

Rolling your own is hard. It is much less likely to fail when getting ongoing guidance and support.
posted by Michele in California at 1:45 PM on December 14, 2015

This is a giant pile of woo. Speak with actually qualified doctors.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 1:54 PM on December 14, 2015

There are two important issues to consider here in very broad terms:

1) Is there actual, reliable evidence to support the theory that an "initial trauma" is what causes IBS?

2) Does this DRNS system (or anything geared towards dealing with neuroplasticity) actually help?

To me, point 2 is the biggest sticking point, if for no other reason than I would be extremely wary of trusting anything written by someone whose entire purpose is to sell that particular treatment.

As to the first point, it's been quite well established that earlier events can have long lasting effects on your body, including the neurological underpinnings of your central nervous system, although even here there are lots of confounding issues.

However, I'm totally willing to buy that earlier traumas can profoundly mess with our bodies, but I'm incredibly skeptical of treatments that claim to be able to fix this problem.

Also, having looking at the DNRS website, I will add that I am extra skeptical any time someone starts talking about "detoxifying" or "toxic overload."

Of course, IANAD, IANYD, etc. If you aren't willing to consult with additional doctors, then I would consider seeing a dietician as suggested in the question you linked to in your OP. (I know you have another question that talks about trying out the FODMAP diet, but the way your phrase that question makes me think you were doing this on your own, not with the oversight of a medical professional. Apologies if you've already tried that out.)

tl;dr: This sounds super woo, and very unlikely to be helpful, so I would definitely look elsewhere for solutions.

Also, I'll just add that I sympathize, because I'm sure it is incredibly frustrating to have something that is majorly impacting your life and which modern medicine doesn't seem to be particularly helpful.
posted by litera scripta manet at 2:22 PM on December 14, 2015

Also, having looking at the DNRS website, I will add that I am extra skeptical any time someone starts talking about "detoxifying" or "toxic overload."

I'll go one further: detoxification is not a thing that exists or does anything. It's solely a marketing scam. As such, throws literally everything else these people claim into serious doubt.
posted by feckless fecal fear mongering at 2:35 PM on December 14, 2015

There are inflammatory markers for certain inflammatory gut diseases. As in literal molecules of the cytokine and antibody variety, that are responsible for persistent inflammatory states. In some cases, inhibiting those molecules resolves the acute aspect of inflammatory disease. That inhibition process doesn't prevent recurrence of the chronic aspect of the inflammatory disease, so that's the part that's still a bit unknown. Maybe there is some feasible mechanisms by which a trauma could damage brain tissue, but I can't think of a plausible mechanism through which that would translate into the production of very specific molecules (like the aforementioned cytokines and antibodies) associated with inflammatory bowel diseases (e.g. production of antibodies isn't under central nervous control).
posted by late afternoon dreaming hotel at 2:45 PM on December 14, 2015

Haven't looked at the whole program, but part of what this person's doing is just describing the stress response and (very common!) psychotherapeutic methods of addressing it:

"The program integrates components of cognitive-behaviour therapy, mindfulness based cognitive restructuring, emotional restructuring therapy, neural linguistic programming and incremental exposure and behaviour modification therapy."

IBS is certainly influenced by stress, and it's strongly linked with anxiety, so developing some way of managing stress and anxiety is a good idea.

And if you've suffered with this for a long time, and have felt ignored by doctors and haven't responded to treatments, I can see how that can feel traumatic. And I think that, and anxiety, and negative experiences related to disruptions to your life, and anything else you feel is traumatic should be addressed.

But stress alone doesn't explain your specific symptoms - the relationship is indirect. Because stress can do all kinds of things to people - why is it expressing itself in your gut? Some other, specific things are going wrong there (i.e. in your gut).

So, look to evidence-based approaches to dealing with IBS. Have you given a supervised FODMAP elimination diet a proper go (see here)? Many people have successfully managed their IBS that way.

I can understand wanting to go off the beaten path, if the beaten path has beaten you down. But first exhaust methods that have a hope of being helpful. It might be that the doctors you've seen were unsympathetic or not 100% up to date on IBS treatments. That sucks. But keep knocking on doors until you find someone who's equipped to help you (with evidence. And understanding).
posted by cotton dress sock at 2:58 PM on December 14, 2015

I looked over the link provided above. It is too woo for me, and I would happily defend a lot of things other people on Metafilter dismiss as "woo."

It seems to be suggesting that you can think your way into good health and I personally think that thinking yourself into good health is a thing, but it is a thing in the form of getting more educated and informed so you can make better choices. I don't believe in the idea that if you just think happy thoughts, all your problems go away.

And I actually believe in stuff like psychic phenomenon and faith healing. But this "training" sounds ridiculous to me.

So, I am trying to say that I am possibly the most openly woo person on Metafilter and I wouldn't touch this program with a 10 foot pole.

I hate to be a downer. I really do. I would be happy to point you to an alternative med group with a good track record of actually being helpful. (Memail if you want the link.) But I think this is a bad idea. It is desperation talking, not logic.

I'm sorry you are having such a rough time.
posted by Michele in California at 3:09 PM on December 14, 2015

I am a neuroscientist, but not your neuroscientist. This is total woo.
posted by Dashy at 4:33 PM on December 14, 2015

Antidepressants for irritable bowel syndrome

Ask about TCAs, which slow down gut motility and calm the nerves going to the gut.
posted by a lungful of dragon at 4:49 PM on December 14, 2015

Not a doctor here, but you'd likely benefit more from actual evidence-based techniques that are pretty "out there." Fecal transplant.
posted by yesster at 1:10 AM on December 15, 2015