Mystery date: sublet filter
November 30, 2015 10:11 PM Subscribe
A lease says a sublet runs "From Sept 1 To December 31" -- and you moved in on Sept 1.
Do you think it means you need to leave the apt. on December 31? Or is the idea that you are you allowed to keep the apartment for that day of the lease?
Not helpful: advice to be asking the landlord. Assume instead this is to be worked out with a new subletting tenant negotiating a move-in day and wanting to come in the morning of December 31, while existing tenant wants to stay Dec. 31 and leave first thing January 1.
No moving vans or anything, furnished sublet, just suitcases.
Not helpful: advice to be asking the landlord. Assume instead this is to be worked out with a new subletting tenant negotiating a move-in day and wanting to come in the morning of December 31, while existing tenant wants to stay Dec. 31 and leave first thing January 1.
No moving vans or anything, furnished sublet, just suitcases.
December 31 is the move out date.
posted by joan_holloway at 10:15 PM on November 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by joan_holloway at 10:15 PM on November 30, 2015 [1 favorite]
I would assume neither -- that the existing tenant must be out by 11:59pm on dec. 31 but need not be out by the morning of that day.
posted by crazy with stars at 10:15 PM on November 30, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by crazy with stars at 10:15 PM on November 30, 2015 [7 favorites]
Best answer: Yeah, you're each 12 hours off. Current tenant out by the end of the day the 31st, new tenant in by early morning the 1st. No one spends the entire night.
posted by jaguar at 10:21 PM on November 30, 2015 [7 favorites]
posted by jaguar at 10:21 PM on November 30, 2015 [7 favorites]
Both tenants are wrong. Old tenant is trying to stay past Dec 31st and new tenant is trying to move in before Jan 1. Apartments are not hotels, they are not occupied on the basis of nights, where a stay for December 31st means checking out by 11am on Jan 1st. Sometimes, in places where there is a tradition of 'moving day', leases may specify a move-out time for a given day, and a move-in time for the same day, but otherwise, they shouldn't be written to include the same day and there should always be at least one night (or miniscule amount of time at midnight, anyway) of non-occupation.
posted by jacquilynne at 10:24 PM on November 30, 2015 [10 favorites]
posted by jacquilynne at 10:24 PM on November 30, 2015 [10 favorites]
Best answer: I would assume that the existing tenant has to be out sometime on the 31st, maybe to be negotiated. But definitely the existing tenant does not get to stay the night of the 31st. But it also seems strange that the new tenant is trying to move in on the 31st. What does his lease say? It should say the 1st, which means he doesn't get to move in until sometime on the 1st.
posted by ethidda at 10:24 PM on November 30, 2015
posted by ethidda at 10:24 PM on November 30, 2015
Both the tenants are being weird. Current tenant must move out by midnight on the 31st, new tenant can move in on the 1st.
posted by kinddieserzeit at 2:02 AM on December 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by kinddieserzeit at 2:02 AM on December 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
Agreed with all above. Where I live, this does indeed result in mass single-night homelessness, so don't take that as a reason we're wrong.
posted by teremala at 5:42 AM on December 1, 2015
posted by teremala at 5:42 AM on December 1, 2015
What do your local rental/tenancy laws say? It can differ by country, and by state in the US.
Where I live, this would mean out by end-of-day on December 31st, where "end of day" is commonly accepted to mean the end of the working day, but legally, yes, can mean up to but not past midnight. New tenant's lease should begin on January 1st. For previous tenant, they're assumed to have made new rental arrangements that begin on the same day, so, December 31st. Which, yes, results in paying 2x1 day of rent, but well, it's worth it, because you're not homeless for a night.
If "asking the landlord" is unacceptable advice, then you could be in for misery that you won't be able to do anything about. Because that generally means the sublet hasn't been done with their accord, which could lead to consequences for everyone involved. Read your rental contract and local rental laws for specifics on what those consequences could be; where I live one of them is an immediate end to the rental contract and eviction with no notice. It's also the case in NYC, for instance. This could render moot your entire question.
posted by fraula at 6:04 AM on December 1, 2015
Where I live, this would mean out by end-of-day on December 31st, where "end of day" is commonly accepted to mean the end of the working day, but legally, yes, can mean up to but not past midnight. New tenant's lease should begin on January 1st. For previous tenant, they're assumed to have made new rental arrangements that begin on the same day, so, December 31st. Which, yes, results in paying 2x1 day of rent, but well, it's worth it, because you're not homeless for a night.
If "asking the landlord" is unacceptable advice, then you could be in for misery that you won't be able to do anything about. Because that generally means the sublet hasn't been done with their accord, which could lead to consequences for everyone involved. Read your rental contract and local rental laws for specifics on what those consequences could be; where I live one of them is an immediate end to the rental contract and eviction with no notice. It's also the case in NYC, for instance. This could render moot your entire question.
posted by fraula at 6:04 AM on December 1, 2015
Hmmm, where I live, and having married into a family of landlords (so I see this all the time), this would mean the current tenants need to move out by noon on Dec. 31 and the new tenants can move in later in the afternoon on Dec. 31 if they so wish and there aren't any major repairs needing to be done first, to prevent the one-night homelessness mentioned above.
But, more importantly, this is exactly spelled out in the lease. The lease would say, "out by noon on Dec. 31" and "your lease starts Jan 1, but you can move in after 3:00pm on Dec. 31 if you so choose", etc.
posted by TinWhistle at 6:11 AM on December 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
But, more importantly, this is exactly spelled out in the lease. The lease would say, "out by noon on Dec. 31" and "your lease starts Jan 1, but you can move in after 3:00pm on Dec. 31 if you so choose", etc.
posted by TinWhistle at 6:11 AM on December 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
I have once moved in somewhere on the 31st and moved out on the 1st with the contracts saying start was the 1st and end the 31st, so I would ask the landlord.
posted by LoonyLovegood at 9:10 AM on December 1, 2015
posted by LoonyLovegood at 9:10 AM on December 1, 2015
Reminds me of shared house student days, with some people whining to try to get in early, while other people drag ass getting out and mess the whole process for everyone. No simple solution to that. Always a fuss.
On the bright side, a furnished sublet makes everything easier. For some odd reason, many of the students I knew had lots of heavy ugly furniture.
posted by ovvl at 9:17 AM on December 1, 2015
On the bright side, a furnished sublet makes everything easier. For some odd reason, many of the students I knew had lots of heavy ugly furniture.
posted by ovvl at 9:17 AM on December 1, 2015
Our lease specifies that we're to be out by a certain time on the last day of our lease (I think 2 or 2:30 pm)? So the lease would be the first place to look. If it doesn't say anything specific, I would go with the midnight interpretation. Definitely the old tenant does not get to stay until the morning of the 1st, since they're not paying any rent for that month. The easiest thing to do, though, is probably to try and have the previous and new tenant work out something between them that is workable - since this is a furnished apartment, is it possible for someone to just crash on the couch the night of the 31st? I assume since this is sublets and people aren't moving a ton of stuff, this might be young people who want to avoid a hotel cost, and compromising like that could be a good solution for everyone.
posted by rainbowbrite at 10:23 AM on December 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by rainbowbrite at 10:23 AM on December 1, 2015 [2 favorites]
You're definitely not allowed to sleep there the night of the 31st. You may need to be out earlier than midnight if your lease says so.
posted by MsMolly at 3:04 PM on December 1, 2015
posted by MsMolly at 3:04 PM on December 1, 2015
I wanted to point out that the fact that it is, specifically, December 31st may be relevant here. New tenant may want a place to crash after his New Year's revels, at 2 (or 3, or 4) in the morning, which would technically be the 1st. So he wants previous tenant out by midnight. He's trying to avoid paying for a hotel, maybe, or having to stay sober enough to drive back to his previous residence (or his previous lease also ends on Dec 31st).
posted by timepiece at 11:32 AM on December 8, 2015
posted by timepiece at 11:32 AM on December 8, 2015
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by the agents of KAOS at 10:14 PM on November 30, 2015 [10 favorites]