When am I eligible for personal time pay?
October 11, 2015 9:11 AM Subscribe
I took a day off from my library to offer a workshop at a different library. I was paid by that library, so my employer says I don't get to use paid personal leave. Is this true?
When I asked for the time off my employer asked if I was getting paid by the other library and then said I could take the time off but I couldn't get paid because then I'd be "paid twice."
Part time employees like myself just got benefits like this, so I don't know if this is standard or not. It occurred to me later that it's not really my employer's business WHY I want time off, at all.
I am a non-Union, municipal employee, in case that makes a difference.
When I asked for the time off my employer asked if I was getting paid by the other library and then said I could take the time off but I couldn't get paid because then I'd be "paid twice."
Part time employees like myself just got benefits like this, so I don't know if this is standard or not. It occurred to me later that it's not really my employer's business WHY I want time off, at all.
I am a non-Union, municipal employee, in case that makes a difference.
Hrmm, is personal leave like your vacation days? If so, unless the two libraries are somehow financially linked in a way that doesn't allow them to compensate you simultaneously, this didn't square.
Antedata: i work with a lot of ad hoc labor who come with for me for a couple of weeks while on paid vacation from their normal (state) and get paid by me as well as getting paid by their normal employer.
posted by arnicae at 9:23 AM on October 11, 2015
Antedata: i work with a lot of ad hoc labor who come with for me for a couple of weeks while on paid vacation from their normal (state) and get paid by me as well as getting paid by their normal employer.
posted by arnicae at 9:23 AM on October 11, 2015
It is not standard, and it's odd.
It shouldn't be their business what you do with personal leave. If it is a linked library/organization, you shouldn't need to take leave, it's regular work (but also no bonus if it was more than your regular pay).
That said, it may be true at your organization. Lots of true things are odd.
posted by Across the pale parabola of joy at 9:33 AM on October 11, 2015
It shouldn't be their business what you do with personal leave. If it is a linked library/organization, you shouldn't need to take leave, it's regular work (but also no bonus if it was more than your regular pay).
That said, it may be true at your organization. Lots of true things are odd.
posted by Across the pale parabola of joy at 9:33 AM on October 11, 2015
Response by poster: Yes, personal time is vacation time, and no, the two libraries were not linked in any way.
posted by Biblio at 9:39 AM on October 11, 2015
posted by Biblio at 9:39 AM on October 11, 2015
Part time employees like myself just got benefits like this
Presumably this policy change is codified in writing somewhere -- perhaps an employee manual? What does that say? IANAL but acting in conflict with the written policy or treating different employees differently would be a problem.
posted by jon1270 at 9:40 AM on October 11, 2015
Presumably this policy change is codified in writing somewhere -- perhaps an employee manual? What does that say? IANAL but acting in conflict with the written policy or treating different employees differently would be a problem.
posted by jon1270 at 9:40 AM on October 11, 2015
As you may have guessed, you should have just asked for the time off without specifically mentioning it was for a paid job. However, As a manager I would be wary of an employee calling out so that they can work another job--because I would be losing that work out of my unit for that day.
It actually sounds as if your employer might have been willing to let you present on their time-- however since you were paid, they then see that as being paid twice.
posted by calgirl at 10:06 AM on October 11, 2015
It actually sounds as if your employer might have been willing to let you present on their time-- however since you were paid, they then see that as being paid twice.
posted by calgirl at 10:06 AM on October 11, 2015
There may be a policy that prevents you from taking time off to do other paid work, because they don't want employees essentially moonlighting on what should be company time.
There's also an element of why you were asked to do the workshop. My last employer did not permit us to earn money for things we did based on our positions with that employer, so if I was invited to speak at a conference as a representative of the company, and they paid me an honorarium, I had to turn it over to my employer -- this was especially true if that speaking happened during business hours.
If your workshop at the second library is something you were asked to do because of your work at the first library, it might fall under a policy like this.
posted by jacquilynne at 10:06 AM on October 11, 2015 [5 favorites]
There's also an element of why you were asked to do the workshop. My last employer did not permit us to earn money for things we did based on our positions with that employer, so if I was invited to speak at a conference as a representative of the company, and they paid me an honorarium, I had to turn it over to my employer -- this was especially true if that speaking happened during business hours.
If your workshop at the second library is something you were asked to do because of your work at the first library, it might fall under a policy like this.
posted by jacquilynne at 10:06 AM on October 11, 2015 [5 favorites]
What does your employee policy manual say about this?
posted by HuronBob at 11:03 AM on October 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by HuronBob at 11:03 AM on October 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
As a manager I would be wary of an employee calling out so that they can work another job--because I would be losing that work out of my unit for that day.
Huh? Losing an employee's work for the day is the known and intended result of giving paid time off. That's just... what the employee benefit is.
posted by threeants at 11:39 AM on October 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
Huh? Losing an employee's work for the day is the known and intended result of giving paid time off. That's just... what the employee benefit is.
posted by threeants at 11:39 AM on October 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Check your employee handbook, but you I feel like you should be allowed to spend your Paid Time Off however you wish and it's overstepping for them to deny it. Your handbook may have a policy about employment outside the company, or moonlighting, but in all likelihood it would specify something about requiring you to disclose or facing termination, not refusal of PTO benefits. However, I would strongly suggest you do not tell them about any outside paid gigs if you really want to keep doing them. Why you are taking PTO is none of their business. "I will be using PTO on Tuesday, Oct. 5. Thanks!" If anyone asks, "Just taking a little break, that's all."
posted by AppleTurnover at 11:49 AM on October 11, 2015
posted by AppleTurnover at 11:49 AM on October 11, 2015
Response by poster: Our employee handbook doesn't cover benefits. Maybe I should just check with HR.
Thanks for all your answers.
posted by Biblio at 11:51 AM on October 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
Thanks for all your answers.
posted by Biblio at 11:51 AM on October 11, 2015 [2 favorites]
the two libraries were not linked in any way.
So, then, let's say you take a vacation day from your library job to be a poll worker one day. Would the boss refuse to pay you? What about driving a cab one day? waitressing? competing in a reality show? It should not matter financially to your employer one bit what you do with your vacation time. Except that they do get their feelings hurt when people go moonlighting.
On the other hand, if the pay were equitable on the library jobs, you still have you vacation time in the bank and you have not suffered a loss. You just haven't gained anything. Make sure your bank has not been docked anything.
posted by SLC Mom at 11:54 AM on October 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
So, then, let's say you take a vacation day from your library job to be a poll worker one day. Would the boss refuse to pay you? What about driving a cab one day? waitressing? competing in a reality show? It should not matter financially to your employer one bit what you do with your vacation time. Except that they do get their feelings hurt when people go moonlighting.
On the other hand, if the pay were equitable on the library jobs, you still have you vacation time in the bank and you have not suffered a loss. You just haven't gained anything. Make sure your bank has not been docked anything.
posted by SLC Mom at 11:54 AM on October 11, 2015 [1 favorite]
By "not linked in any way", that means no the two libraries aren't, for instance, two separate facilities in the same library system? Because I could see this being valid if they were part of the same governing body --- so even though you only work at Peoria's Library A, yes it would be 'double dipping' if you were paid for the same hours by Peoria's Library B (personal leave time pay from A plus the workshop at B).
On the other hand, if you work for a New York City library, and you gave this workshop on your own at a Newark library --- if the workshop was not sponsored by or in any way supported by the New York City library system (not just your home library: the entire system your library belongs to) --- then it does sound questionable. Check with HR, and accept whatever answer they give.
And assuming they are two separate totally-unconnected entities, you have a couple options for next time. One is to take a day of paid leave from your employer but not tell them why, not telling them you want the time off to go do a workshop at another library. You aren't required to tell your employer about your plans for your personal vacation time; the drawback to this, of course, is that yes your employer will find out about the workshops, and will probably be ticked off. Another option is to see if your employer will sponsor such workshops, under the umbrella of sharing ideas and learning from each other; the benefit to that is that not only would you avoid this kind of 'who pays me?' problem but it would also save your personal leave time for a real vacation.
posted by easily confused at 12:29 PM on October 11, 2015
On the other hand, if you work for a New York City library, and you gave this workshop on your own at a Newark library --- if the workshop was not sponsored by or in any way supported by the New York City library system (not just your home library: the entire system your library belongs to) --- then it does sound questionable. Check with HR, and accept whatever answer they give.
And assuming they are two separate totally-unconnected entities, you have a couple options for next time. One is to take a day of paid leave from your employer but not tell them why, not telling them you want the time off to go do a workshop at another library. You aren't required to tell your employer about your plans for your personal vacation time; the drawback to this, of course, is that yes your employer will find out about the workshops, and will probably be ticked off. Another option is to see if your employer will sponsor such workshops, under the umbrella of sharing ideas and learning from each other; the benefit to that is that not only would you avoid this kind of 'who pays me?' problem but it would also save your personal leave time for a real vacation.
posted by easily confused at 12:29 PM on October 11, 2015
Response by poster: To be clear, the libraries are in different towns and are not even in the same online network.
posted by Biblio at 1:58 PM on October 11, 2015
posted by Biblio at 1:58 PM on October 11, 2015
Definitely check your employee handbook and contract. I'm not in the USA, but I have certainly had employment contracts that explicitly forbid me from doing paid work during my paid leave - the logic is that your employer pays you to take a break and come back to work refreshed, not to spend the time working elsewhere.
posted by nomis at 5:13 PM on October 11, 2015
posted by nomis at 5:13 PM on October 11, 2015
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The only reason to do it is for the money you get for paid leave. It is my impression paid leave is at request.
posted by Oyéah at 9:19 AM on October 11, 2015