How would you rent out this area?
September 14, 2015 5:41 PM Subscribe
It's not exactly an apartment, but it's not just a room either. We thought maybe a Mother-in-law suite? But there's no kitchen...
Mr. Makenpace and I recently bought a beautiful home in the Pacific Northwest that we are eventually going to make into a small working farm with goats, ducks, chickens, and the like. As soon as we know what the county will decide on the flood control issue (see previous question)and as soon as we have some extra money. But, we've decided to not let the county's indecision put us at a standstill, and we've realized that we have much too much room for the two of us. His mother might come and stay with us eventually, but until then, there's an area in the back of the house that's not being used for much of anything. After a lot of conversation, we decided that we'll try to rent it out. There's a high demand for rentals in this area and even rooms are very much sought after. It's not a college town, but more of a bedroom community. Someplace people move to get away from the city.
I have a floor plan of the space that I created here (I hope that link works... It says it's shareable). Craigslist ads and Apartment.com have two bedroom apartments listed at well over $1,200, but those are full apartments. What we are offering is two bedrooms with a full bathroom and a living area. We may or may not put a refrigerator and a microwave in one of the bedrooms and call it a "kitchenette". We've been discussing it. The difficulty with that is that the entire area is carpeted with high plush carpeting. I know... I dislike carpeting too, and I want to rip it out with a vengeance. However, funds are tight, which is why we plan to rent the back area out.
The major cons to renting the space is that there is no kitchen, and we cannot afford a major renovation at this time to put one in. Also, the private entrance is around the back of the house and will eventually be going right through what will, eventually, be the farm area. We are going to put a path in before we rent it out, but eventually the tenant will have to deal with goats and such, even if they are fenced off. We *could* create a path around the front of the house to the slider on the porch, but that's a longer walk.
Also, to give the tenant a private entrance that means we cut off all of our access to the back yard except to go around from the front. Now, there is a window we can convert to a door -- eventually -- but then we would share the small entrance porch (which we plan to make bigger, again... eventually) with the tenant.
Anyway, the question is, how would you rent this space out? as one unit with two bedrooms and a private entrance (no kitchen)? Or as two separate bedrooms with a shared living area/bathroom and access to the communal kitchen in the main house? Mr. Makenpace is not hip to the latter, being an introvert, but he likes the idea of extra money coming in.
Mr. Makenpace and I recently bought a beautiful home in the Pacific Northwest that we are eventually going to make into a small working farm with goats, ducks, chickens, and the like. As soon as we know what the county will decide on the flood control issue (see previous question)and as soon as we have some extra money. But, we've decided to not let the county's indecision put us at a standstill, and we've realized that we have much too much room for the two of us. His mother might come and stay with us eventually, but until then, there's an area in the back of the house that's not being used for much of anything. After a lot of conversation, we decided that we'll try to rent it out. There's a high demand for rentals in this area and even rooms are very much sought after. It's not a college town, but more of a bedroom community. Someplace people move to get away from the city.
I have a floor plan of the space that I created here (I hope that link works... It says it's shareable). Craigslist ads and Apartment.com have two bedroom apartments listed at well over $1,200, but those are full apartments. What we are offering is two bedrooms with a full bathroom and a living area. We may or may not put a refrigerator and a microwave in one of the bedrooms and call it a "kitchenette". We've been discussing it. The difficulty with that is that the entire area is carpeted with high plush carpeting. I know... I dislike carpeting too, and I want to rip it out with a vengeance. However, funds are tight, which is why we plan to rent the back area out.
The major cons to renting the space is that there is no kitchen, and we cannot afford a major renovation at this time to put one in. Also, the private entrance is around the back of the house and will eventually be going right through what will, eventually, be the farm area. We are going to put a path in before we rent it out, but eventually the tenant will have to deal with goats and such, even if they are fenced off. We *could* create a path around the front of the house to the slider on the porch, but that's a longer walk.
Also, to give the tenant a private entrance that means we cut off all of our access to the back yard except to go around from the front. Now, there is a window we can convert to a door -- eventually -- but then we would share the small entrance porch (which we plan to make bigger, again... eventually) with the tenant.
Anyway, the question is, how would you rent this space out? as one unit with two bedrooms and a private entrance (no kitchen)? Or as two separate bedrooms with a shared living area/bathroom and access to the communal kitchen in the main house? Mr. Makenpace is not hip to the latter, being an introvert, but he likes the idea of extra money coming in.
Well, sorry, but how does Mr. Makenpace think potential tenants will feed themselves, with no access to *any kind* of kitchen? I really don't think it's going to be a tolerable situation for very long if either of you isn't happy actually sharing your space with other humans, given that you can't give them their own kitchen (or a private entrance).
2nd Michele in California - check local laws to see what you can do. I doubt you could rent it as an apartment without getting a kitchen in there (to code). Sounds like renting the 2 bedrooms as rooms would be most financially feasible for you, but I don't think you should do it.
posted by cotton dress sock at 5:57 PM on September 14, 2015 [11 favorites]
2nd Michele in California - check local laws to see what you can do. I doubt you could rent it as an apartment without getting a kitchen in there (to code). Sounds like renting the 2 bedrooms as rooms would be most financially feasible for you, but I don't think you should do it.
posted by cotton dress sock at 5:57 PM on September 14, 2015 [11 favorites]
You're kind of in a catch-22 situation, where on the one hand you want the money that would come from renting a back apartment to tenants, but on the other hand you're not willing to put in the money to create the back apartment. Neither are you willing to extend the mental energy to what a tenant would require. Like, seriously, you're not even willing to sacrifice a bit of your farm (WHICH DOESN'T EVEN EXIST YET) to make a path for a tenant to get to the entrance to their home?
So I would say that, at this point, you should just not do anything and wait till you're willing to actually do it.
Also, keep in mind that creating a kitchen in the back apartment wouldn't be all that expensive. Run a water line from the bathroom, replace the carpet with vinyl, put in a fridge, a sink, and an electric stove. Done and done. It will most likely pay for itself in rent within a few months.
I live in a "mother in law unit" style apartment and access my entrance through a path that runs behind the house. There are chickens on the premises, and I have to walk past their coop to get to my apartment. It has never occurred to me that this would be an issue in any way. A tenant who moves onto a farm is probably going to be OK with seeing a goat. It really comes off like you're trying to come up with excuses not to just create and rent the apartment.
Keep in mind that if you rent the bedrooms separately, you're going to have tenants sharing your kitchen all the time. In fact, what you're going to have is roommates, who you won't reasonably be able to restrict from using any part of the house as they see fit. Which seems way less optimal than spending the money to just build a kitchen and rent the place out as an apartment.
posted by Sara C. at 6:02 PM on September 14, 2015 [21 favorites]
So I would say that, at this point, you should just not do anything and wait till you're willing to actually do it.
Also, keep in mind that creating a kitchen in the back apartment wouldn't be all that expensive. Run a water line from the bathroom, replace the carpet with vinyl, put in a fridge, a sink, and an electric stove. Done and done. It will most likely pay for itself in rent within a few months.
I live in a "mother in law unit" style apartment and access my entrance through a path that runs behind the house. There are chickens on the premises, and I have to walk past their coop to get to my apartment. It has never occurred to me that this would be an issue in any way. A tenant who moves onto a farm is probably going to be OK with seeing a goat. It really comes off like you're trying to come up with excuses not to just create and rent the apartment.
Keep in mind that if you rent the bedrooms separately, you're going to have tenants sharing your kitchen all the time. In fact, what you're going to have is roommates, who you won't reasonably be able to restrict from using any part of the house as they see fit. Which seems way less optimal than spending the money to just build a kitchen and rent the place out as an apartment.
posted by Sara C. at 6:02 PM on September 14, 2015 [21 favorites]
Response by poster: My, aren't we judgmental? I said that we were going to put a path in before renting the unit out. I'm totally willing to create a path and sacrifice the area for the tenant. I only put it as a con because the goats, etc... aren't here now and someone might consider it a con if they suddenly appear later. Where did I say that we were not going to put a path in? Also, it's not that we're unwilling to renovate, it's that we have no money at this time to do so. You cannot get blood from a turnip, as they say.
And, I didn't say that Mr. Makenpace was violently opposed to renting the rooms as rooms, but that he wasn't "hip" to the idea. Meaning, he's not completely on board with it. Is it really necessary to assume the worse?
posted by MildredMakenpace at 6:09 PM on September 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
And, I didn't say that Mr. Makenpace was violently opposed to renting the rooms as rooms, but that he wasn't "hip" to the idea. Meaning, he's not completely on board with it. Is it really necessary to assume the worse?
posted by MildredMakenpace at 6:09 PM on September 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
Yeah, with no kitchen I would expect to get like half of the going rate, which, given your ambivalence, seems unlikely to be worth it to you. Or you could try Air BnBing the bedrooms, either together or individually.
posted by mskyle at 6:10 PM on September 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by mskyle at 6:10 PM on September 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
I don't think not having a kitchen is that big of a deal for the right tenant (I wouldn't care for that matter), but if you do that - besides checking into the legal regulations - I would put in a microwave, tiny fridge, and see what else is permissible (tiny hot plate? who knows). Many college students live like that so - you know your area, is there the market for it?
The other option is giving the tenant something that they want in exchange for not having a real kitchen. Options such as a lower rent price, space in a garden, permission to have an animal.
I think having the person share your housing space would be hard for most adults, and I don't think it would lend to a long term tenancy. Make it separate, advertise it as such and be honest up front, and see what you can do to compensate for it if all the other neighboring units have kitchens.
posted by Wolfster at 6:11 PM on September 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
The other option is giving the tenant something that they want in exchange for not having a real kitchen. Options such as a lower rent price, space in a garden, permission to have an animal.
I think having the person share your housing space would be hard for most adults, and I don't think it would lend to a long term tenancy. Make it separate, advertise it as such and be honest up front, and see what you can do to compensate for it if all the other neighboring units have kitchens.
posted by Wolfster at 6:11 PM on September 14, 2015 [3 favorites]
Best answer: How about not renting them as bedrooms, but renting them as offices or creative spaces? I know lots of my clients have learned that they can't work "at home" because it decreases their productivity, so they rent spaces elsewhere -- rooms in homes, small offices in larger companies with extra space, etc. This is the kind of thing that works well for writers, editors, maybe programmers with babies at home, and others who need a quite but not TOO comfy space.
The advantage of this is that your husband wouldn't need to feel like this person or these persons would be there all the time. You'd likely have nighttime and some weekends with the entire house to yourself.
Outside of a college student, I'd be hard-pressed to imagine someone willing to forgo a kitchen at home (and I don't even cook!), but if it's a workspace rather than a living space, it's a lot more appealing sans kitchen.
Of course, zoning may be an issue. YMMV.
posted by The Wrong Kind of Cheese at 6:16 PM on September 14, 2015 [23 favorites]
The advantage of this is that your husband wouldn't need to feel like this person or these persons would be there all the time. You'd likely have nighttime and some weekends with the entire house to yourself.
Outside of a college student, I'd be hard-pressed to imagine someone willing to forgo a kitchen at home (and I don't even cook!), but if it's a workspace rather than a living space, it's a lot more appealing sans kitchen.
Of course, zoning may be an issue. YMMV.
posted by The Wrong Kind of Cheese at 6:16 PM on September 14, 2015 [23 favorites]
You can't really expect anyone to rent a home without access to any kitchen! Even if you put in a mini fridge and microwave, there's no sink. Do you really think they're going to prepare food and wash dishes in the bathroom sink? What about where they're going to chop veggies, cook meals and store their dishes... even if they eat absolutely nothing but takeout, they're still going to want a few plates and forks kicking around.
As a starving student I'd give up a whole lot of perks for a cheap apartment, but a kitchen isn't a perk, it's like a bathroom - if you don't have one, you're not living, you're camping.
posted by randomnity at 6:16 PM on September 14, 2015 [25 favorites]
As a starving student I'd give up a whole lot of perks for a cheap apartment, but a kitchen isn't a perk, it's like a bathroom - if you don't have one, you're not living, you're camping.
posted by randomnity at 6:16 PM on September 14, 2015 [25 favorites]
I've known people to pay decent sums of money for not very good accommodations on Air BNB. And the laws are much different than being a proper rental. Perhaps you could try that route to see how it goes before you bite the bullet and commit to a year long lease.
posted by sacrifix at 6:22 PM on September 14, 2015 [6 favorites]
posted by sacrifix at 6:22 PM on September 14, 2015 [6 favorites]
If you can't do the kitchen and are wanting to do the rooms, I invite you to imagine that
- Mr. Makenpace is preparing to make his tea, but the kettle isn't where he put it.
- The tenants are watching a movie (a bit louder than you like) and want to make popcorn; it's an hour past the time Mr Makenpace likes to go to bed, and he gets cranky without a full 8 hours.
- The tenants have forgotten to take off their boots and tracked dirt through the shared hall.
- They like to make stews; you hate the smell of their stews; you want to tell them to stop making stews, but recognize that you can't, really, and are annoyed by this (as well as the stew smell)
This is what you're setting yourselves up for if you don't make that space private (and give them a kitchen).
posted by cotton dress sock at 6:24 PM on September 14, 2015 [4 favorites]
- Mr. Makenpace is preparing to make his tea, but the kettle isn't where he put it.
- The tenants are watching a movie (a bit louder than you like) and want to make popcorn; it's an hour past the time Mr Makenpace likes to go to bed, and he gets cranky without a full 8 hours.
- The tenants have forgotten to take off their boots and tracked dirt through the shared hall.
- They like to make stews; you hate the smell of their stews; you want to tell them to stop making stews, but recognize that you can't, really, and are annoyed by this (as well as the stew smell)
This is what you're setting yourselves up for if you don't make that space private (and give them a kitchen).
posted by cotton dress sock at 6:24 PM on September 14, 2015 [4 favorites]
Best answer: I would vote for Airbnb, at least temporarily. Someone traveling won't expect a kitchen, and you may be able to make more money, anyway. Then you can invest it in adding a kitchenette if you want.
posted by three_red_balloons at 6:44 PM on September 14, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by three_red_balloons at 6:44 PM on September 14, 2015 [5 favorites]
I have a decent amount of experience with tenant law from both sides in this state, and in seattle area.
You can't rent a place without a kitchen. You at least need like, a mini fridge and a hot plate and microwave. Similar rules include that a bedroom needs both a window and a closet to be legally a bedroom(although this isn't really enforced unfortunately), and various window size laws.
Good appliances are given away for free all the time on Craigslist. Is blocking off the connection to the house and paying an electrician to wire up connections really too much work? Similarly, other materials like flooring will be available at second use in SODO. For CHEAP. Just commit to converting it.
posted by emptythought at 7:13 PM on September 14, 2015 [6 favorites]
You can't rent a place without a kitchen. You at least need like, a mini fridge and a hot plate and microwave. Similar rules include that a bedroom needs both a window and a closet to be legally a bedroom(although this isn't really enforced unfortunately), and various window size laws.
Good appliances are given away for free all the time on Craigslist. Is blocking off the connection to the house and paying an electrician to wire up connections really too much work? Similarly, other materials like flooring will be available at second use in SODO. For CHEAP. Just commit to converting it.
posted by emptythought at 7:13 PM on September 14, 2015 [6 favorites]
Best answer: You can put in a hotplate (depending on local laws), mini fridge, and a microwave and call it a kitchenette. If you could do any tiny renovation to the space, I'd put in a second sink in the main area (for the kitchen), and cut up a 3sqft or so area of the carpet and lay down some hard flooring (whatever is on sale) to hold the kitchen. Another option for the kitchen is mini fridge plus a microwave and an outdoor gas grill w/ side burner and outdoor sink (easy to set up if you have a hose connection out there).
Maybe list it as a "suite" or something like a "2BR efficiency apartment" (efficiency is usually a studio w/ a kitchenette). A place like this would be great for someone who works a ton and usually eats at work or gets takeout. Or a single parent on a low income. Re the farm: as long as it's advertised truthfully, then I don't think you have any issues (you could even sweeten the deal by throwing in farm fresh eggs and goat cheese on a monthly basis or something).
posted by melissasaurus at 7:15 PM on September 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
Maybe list it as a "suite" or something like a "2BR efficiency apartment" (efficiency is usually a studio w/ a kitchenette). A place like this would be great for someone who works a ton and usually eats at work or gets takeout. Or a single parent on a low income. Re the farm: as long as it's advertised truthfully, then I don't think you have any issues (you could even sweeten the deal by throwing in farm fresh eggs and goat cheese on a monthly basis or something).
posted by melissasaurus at 7:15 PM on September 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Why not do traditional bnb or airbnb or short term rentals with or without access to the kitchen (what ever you can get) and then use that money to upgrade the place to add a sink. Given that there's a lounge room in the annex, you don't need to let them share your living space. If you don't sign a long lease, you keep your options open. If you hate sharing the kitchen, you can stop that option. Then you could turn it into a 2bed apartment and rent it long term.
I would try to keep the second bedroom and squeeze the kitchen in somewhere in the living area, particularly as you don't have a lot of money, and the larger the kitchen the more expensive it'll be. Michelle in californias idea of putting it in the hallway sounds great if it'll fit. People sell secondhand kitchens for almost nothing.
But given that you are trying to start a farm, it also looks like the perfect place to house WWOOFers.
posted by kjs4 at 7:32 PM on September 14, 2015 [4 favorites]
I would try to keep the second bedroom and squeeze the kitchen in somewhere in the living area, particularly as you don't have a lot of money, and the larger the kitchen the more expensive it'll be. Michelle in californias idea of putting it in the hallway sounds great if it'll fit. People sell secondhand kitchens for almost nothing.
But given that you are trying to start a farm, it also looks like the perfect place to house WWOOFers.
posted by kjs4 at 7:32 PM on September 14, 2015 [4 favorites]
If you were single, would you want to live in your rental scenario as is yourself? Would you be cool with the lack of kitchen/possible sharing/privacy issues?
I'm with The Wrong Kind Of Cheese: this is NOT a good living situation for a tenant or for the Mr. (especially if you don't want to or can't afford to add a kitchen, and don't want strangers underfoot), but if you used it as a rental office studio, that would solve a lot of problems on both ends.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:40 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
I'm with The Wrong Kind Of Cheese: this is NOT a good living situation for a tenant or for the Mr. (especially if you don't want to or can't afford to add a kitchen, and don't want strangers underfoot), but if you used it as a rental office studio, that would solve a lot of problems on both ends.
posted by jenfullmoon at 7:40 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
You could also delve into your local arts scene. A bucolic country setting with goats and a cozy pellet stove and gardens, etc., would probably appeal to many artists. You could rent out the rooms as "artists studios" and have the main space available for mini art shows or display/gallery space.
You could also replace the regular old pellet stove with a pellet COOKstove to add more functionality.
posted by Ostara at 7:54 PM on September 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
You could also replace the regular old pellet stove with a pellet COOKstove to add more functionality.
posted by Ostara at 7:54 PM on September 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
Best answer: If you live an area with high demand for rentals, the money maximizing thing to do is to build in a small kitchenette so that you can rent out this place as a 2BR suite. I think you would make back the investment quite quickly. Can you borrow money to do this right?
First, can you legally have a suite? Check your zoning laws. Don't spend money an illegal suite, especially if you might end up having to sell out to the city. From your previous questions, it seems that you might not be too familiar with zoning and permits in general. Go down to City Hall and make sure you understand what you can and can't do and what permits are required.
If you are good to go, start gathering what you need. You can get fridges and stoves on Craigslist for very little. You can even buy someone's old kitchen they are tearing out, which gives you cabinets, counters, a sink, and possibly more. Tear out part of the carpet and replace with something that can be mopped. Get the plumbing hooked up and the wiring sorted. Install the kitchen and rent out your suite! Total cost is going to depend on all kinds of things, but it can be done for low thousands.
posted by ssg at 8:16 PM on September 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
First, can you legally have a suite? Check your zoning laws. Don't spend money an illegal suite, especially if you might end up having to sell out to the city. From your previous questions, it seems that you might not be too familiar with zoning and permits in general. Go down to City Hall and make sure you understand what you can and can't do and what permits are required.
If you are good to go, start gathering what you need. You can get fridges and stoves on Craigslist for very little. You can even buy someone's old kitchen they are tearing out, which gives you cabinets, counters, a sink, and possibly more. Tear out part of the carpet and replace with something that can be mopped. Get the plumbing hooked up and the wiring sorted. Install the kitchen and rent out your suite! Total cost is going to depend on all kinds of things, but it can be done for low thousands.
posted by ssg at 8:16 PM on September 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Definitely go with the AirBNB route! That way, you'll be able to to skirt the kitchen issue, and can easily back out if you decide you don't like having tenants. You'll also be able to save money to install that kitchenette.
I don't think the responses were judgmental, btw, but are responding to the cons you listed even after you said you'd already decided to to it ;)
posted by samthemander at 9:07 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
I don't think the responses were judgmental, btw, but are responding to the cons you listed even after you said you'd already decided to to it ;)
posted by samthemander at 9:07 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
Put in a small fridge and a microwave and rent it as an AirBnB. I've stayed in plenty that are exactly as you describe.
posted by Toddles at 9:50 PM on September 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by Toddles at 9:50 PM on September 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
the right tenant
Thinking about it some more - if you want a reliable income, and honestly think you could make adjustments to your habits - e.g. not only share your kitchen, but maybe even provide a hot evening meal along with the room, and occasional conversation - I'm now wondering whether there might be a quiet, non-popcorn-consuming, also introverted older person who would be glad to go for a longer-term room and half-board arrangement. (This would radically change how you live, of course. But even without the shared meal, the presence of another person in your space will always make an impact on your comfort, no matter how quiet they are.)
(Also, though, if you could borrow enough for the up-front cost of installing a sink and small kitchen, you can probably deduct a (small, admittedly) portion of it from your taxes, this year and the next few.)
posted by cotton dress sock at 10:14 PM on September 14, 2015
Thinking about it some more - if you want a reliable income, and honestly think you could make adjustments to your habits - e.g. not only share your kitchen, but maybe even provide a hot evening meal along with the room, and occasional conversation - I'm now wondering whether there might be a quiet, non-popcorn-consuming, also introverted older person who would be glad to go for a longer-term room and half-board arrangement. (This would radically change how you live, of course. But even without the shared meal, the presence of another person in your space will always make an impact on your comfort, no matter how quiet they are.)
(Also, though, if you could borrow enough for the up-front cost of installing a sink and small kitchen, you can probably deduct a (small, admittedly) portion of it from your taxes, this year and the next few.)
posted by cotton dress sock at 10:14 PM on September 14, 2015
You could definitely try renting it out really cheap though, to one tenant, or a terrible couple. (I say terrible because as a college student I would rent this if the price was right, but as a married woman I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.)
I lived over a year of my life in just a bedroom with an ensuite bathroom, cooking in a rice cooker with a steaming attachment with a beer fridge in my room. I had like one plate and one bowl and one fork and knife. I did dishes in my bathroom sink. It was fine (though you will PROBABLY have to pay for a plumber to unstick this sink all the time or get adept at doing that yourself.) I actually got pretty freaking good at rice cooker cooking. Risotto, anyone?
but seriously, if it was like $400 a month I'd probably take it if I was single and in school. You'd probably have to rent it illegally, but where I'm from that's done pretty constantly. You could offer to add another person to the area to your tenant if they chose someone, a lot of college kids have another broke friend who can probably cook in a rice cooker (or an induction hot plate, these days! ..though I wouldn't want to try to wash a frying pan in a bathroom sink.) but I wouldn't want to share that type of space with a stranger. If they bring someone, take their rent down to $300 and add $300 for the second person. they save a little more, you make a little more.
I'd be into the hypothetical goats.
posted by euphoria066 at 10:40 PM on September 14, 2015
I lived over a year of my life in just a bedroom with an ensuite bathroom, cooking in a rice cooker with a steaming attachment with a beer fridge in my room. I had like one plate and one bowl and one fork and knife. I did dishes in my bathroom sink. It was fine (though you will PROBABLY have to pay for a plumber to unstick this sink all the time or get adept at doing that yourself.) I actually got pretty freaking good at rice cooker cooking. Risotto, anyone?
but seriously, if it was like $400 a month I'd probably take it if I was single and in school. You'd probably have to rent it illegally, but where I'm from that's done pretty constantly. You could offer to add another person to the area to your tenant if they chose someone, a lot of college kids have another broke friend who can probably cook in a rice cooker (or an induction hot plate, these days! ..though I wouldn't want to try to wash a frying pan in a bathroom sink.) but I wouldn't want to share that type of space with a stranger. If they bring someone, take their rent down to $300 and add $300 for the second person. they save a little more, you make a little more.
I'd be into the hypothetical goats.
posted by euphoria066 at 10:40 PM on September 14, 2015
Best answer: If you added a small kitchen, it sounds like the kind of place that would be ideal for a single mom. Who wouldn't want their kidlets to have access to a farm? You might just get a tiny bit of labor out helpful/curious kids as well.
posted by vignettist at 10:57 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by vignettist at 10:57 PM on September 14, 2015 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I wouldn't rent it out by the room, but rather as a unit. And don't let the tenants into the main house -- their space is their space, and you don't want roommates.
Do it on craigslist, start it at $600 or $700, and say that adding a mini-fridge/microwave/whatever they want is negotiable (maybe they won't want it). People rent a lot of odd spaces for a lot of odd reasons. Maybe someone wants to do a yoga retreat and go back to nature. Maybe someone eats out for every meal. Whatever.
I don't think the goat issue is an problem. If you take the advice of others and do it as an AirBnb (which, depending on demand in your area, is totally viable), it could even be a plus. I would stay in a weird apartment if I could hang out with a goat. Goats are cool.
posted by aaanastasia at 11:41 PM on September 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
Do it on craigslist, start it at $600 or $700, and say that adding a mini-fridge/microwave/whatever they want is negotiable (maybe they won't want it). People rent a lot of odd spaces for a lot of odd reasons. Maybe someone wants to do a yoga retreat and go back to nature. Maybe someone eats out for every meal. Whatever.
I don't think the goat issue is an problem. If you take the advice of others and do it as an AirBnb (which, depending on demand in your area, is totally viable), it could even be a plus. I would stay in a weird apartment if I could hang out with a goat. Goats are cool.
posted by aaanastasia at 11:41 PM on September 14, 2015 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Traditionally, the one-room flats with no kitchen are called "bachelor apartments." A "two-room bachelor" would be an accurate way to describe the space. They may or may not be legal to let in your area. They also may or may not be legal to offer as bed and breakfast accommodations.
posted by klangklangston at 1:18 AM on September 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by klangklangston at 1:18 AM on September 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think the kitchenette needs to go in the living space. Can you get one of those mini ovens that has a hob on top, a sink, a storage area and a fridge put in inexpensively? You'd make the money back in rent soon enough. Plenty of students and young people aren't bothered about cooking nice meals or having a glamorous kitchen but they do need something.
posted by intensitymultiply at 2:00 AM on September 15, 2015
posted by intensitymultiply at 2:00 AM on September 15, 2015
I know you just had a planning issue, but do be aware that in most places adding an apartment unit is something that requires going through the planning department. Where I live adding an "accessory dwelling unit" (what they call a mother in law apartment here) takes a few steps, from ensuring that it meets the legal criteria (size, etc) to sending notifications to your neighbors in case they want to object. In other places it may be simpler or more complicated, depending on how friendly to ADUs your city is.
Adding renters in neighborhoods is something that a lot of people have strong feelings about, which gets reflected in local ordinances. People like it because of the money, but other people hate it because of density, parking, and other issues. Don't be surprised if a neighbor gets upset about this, whether or not your are doing it legally.
posted by Dip Flash at 4:38 AM on September 15, 2015 [3 favorites]
Adding renters in neighborhoods is something that a lot of people have strong feelings about, which gets reflected in local ordinances. People like it because of the money, but other people hate it because of density, parking, and other issues. Don't be surprised if a neighbor gets upset about this, whether or not your are doing it legally.
posted by Dip Flash at 4:38 AM on September 15, 2015 [3 favorites]
I agree with everyone above that this may not be an allowable use, depending on your zoning. I would not invest money in a kitchenette without looking into that.
Two other questions I don't see covered above:
What's the parking situation like? Is there room for a tenant to park without potentially blocking in any cars you own?
Is the pellet stove the only source of heat in this area? If so, are you sure you are comfortable having a tenant running a wood stove?
posted by pie ninja at 5:23 AM on September 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
Two other questions I don't see covered above:
What's the parking situation like? Is there room for a tenant to park without potentially blocking in any cars you own?
Is the pellet stove the only source of heat in this area? If so, are you sure you are comfortable having a tenant running a wood stove?
posted by pie ninja at 5:23 AM on September 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
I definitely vote AirBNB or renting the space out as an office/art space. I've lived in roommate shares before (including one whether the owner of the house also lived there), and I definitely think it can work and be fun/not miserable, BUT the owner has to be 100% on board with having roomies and enjoy that level of sharing/socialization in addition to the extra cash. It's something I loved in my twenties and could not go back to now that I'm older/married.
posted by rainbowbrite at 8:05 AM on September 15, 2015
posted by rainbowbrite at 8:05 AM on September 15, 2015
If you decide to put in a kitchen, you might want to look into the single-unit kitchenettes. They combine a sink, stove (sometimes), burners, and mini-fridge. My previous office had one tucked into a closet and it was quite handy and didn't take up much space. Depending on your local craigslist, it might or might not be cheaper to buy used, full-size appliances.
posted by belladonna at 8:12 AM on September 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by belladonna at 8:12 AM on September 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
While you are investigating the zoning question to see if this is even legal, you could AirBnB it to try to raise the funds to cover the cost of adding a kitchenette rather than pay out of pocket for it and hope to cover it after the fact from rent. That would also give you a short term taste of what it is like to have people there and let you get some idea of how well you both tolerate it without starting with a multi-month contract. If after one weekend with tenants you have had your fill, you will know this is not for you.
In the meantime, do an internet search for tenant nightmare stories. Landlording is not for the faint of heart. Landlording when the rental unit is part of your own house where you live full time is really not for the faint of heart. While you are at it, look at standard rental contracts and local laws concerning what it takes to evict a bad tenant.
If that gives you pause, then do some brainstorming on other ways to make money off the space that would be less likely to raise your blood pressure. I know for a fact there has been at least one book published with ideas in that vein, though the title escapes me.
posted by Michele in California at 9:36 AM on September 15, 2015
In the meantime, do an internet search for tenant nightmare stories. Landlording is not for the faint of heart. Landlording when the rental unit is part of your own house where you live full time is really not for the faint of heart. While you are at it, look at standard rental contracts and local laws concerning what it takes to evict a bad tenant.
If that gives you pause, then do some brainstorming on other ways to make money off the space that would be less likely to raise your blood pressure. I know for a fact there has been at least one book published with ideas in that vein, though the title escapes me.
posted by Michele in California at 9:36 AM on September 15, 2015
Best answer: If you were to permanently shut the door to the rest of the house and tear out the wall to the bathroom storage area and the shelving in the bathroom storage area (and close off the resulting bathroom access), you could put a sink in there. Then you put a super-narrow counter wherever you like that allows at least 28" of hallway to remain.
You can get used kitchen sinks for free. Try Craigslist, Freecycle, the ReStore. I'm assuming the bathroom isn't load-bearing. If you're able to afford to not have roommates at this time, I would expect this to be a relatively affordable project.
I would leave the space in the area you're talking about as-is and make room in your kitchen for housemates.
posted by aniola at 10:54 AM on September 15, 2015
You can get used kitchen sinks for free. Try Craigslist, Freecycle, the ReStore. I'm assuming the bathroom isn't load-bearing. If you're able to afford to not have roommates at this time, I would expect this to be a relatively affordable project.
I would leave the space in the area you're talking about as-is and make room in your kitchen for housemates.
posted by aniola at 10:54 AM on September 15, 2015
Response by poster: Thank you, everyone for your opinions. I've looked up the codes for the city (I've gotten pretty good at that over the last few months) and we are already in compliance with most of them, other than not having a kitchen in the unit. We're in the correct zone, and we have the acreage to accommodate a tenant. Since we're unincorporated, we do not fall within a "neighborhood" and don't have to worry about getting permission from the neighbors. I have, however, asked both of them what they think, and they have no issues at all with an extra car or two coming down the road. One of them wondered why I was bothering to ask at all, and why I would even go through the trouble seeing if I needed a permit or asking the city about zoning. "Just put someone in there," she said. "I have a friend who rented out a spot in worse shape than that for twelve years and he has people lining up to rent it again." She likes the idea of sticking it to "the man."
It appears that we will have to come up with some money somehow before we can do anything with the space at all. We cannot put it up in AirBnb as is because it is not furnished. We've been using it as storage and a place to put the pet kennels. We have just now cleaned everything out of it and the extra money from our next paycheck will be used for a thorough cleaning to get all of the pet hair (and smell, I do hate carpeting for this very reason) out of the godforsaken carpet. Also, the pellet stove is the only source of heat back there, so I thought we might put some baseboard heaters or something in the rooms themselves. Mr. Makenpace likes the idea of renting it out as an office space, and I'm looking into that a little more closely with the zoning. I think parking would be an issue.
So no matter which way we go, we will have to find some money from somewhere. I suppose it's time to start looking in the cushions of the couch for loose change. Or, this project will simply be slow going. But again... thank you all for your opinions. You've given Mr. Makenpace and I some food for thought.
posted by MildredMakenpace at 12:04 PM on September 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
It appears that we will have to come up with some money somehow before we can do anything with the space at all. We cannot put it up in AirBnb as is because it is not furnished. We've been using it as storage and a place to put the pet kennels. We have just now cleaned everything out of it and the extra money from our next paycheck will be used for a thorough cleaning to get all of the pet hair (and smell, I do hate carpeting for this very reason) out of the godforsaken carpet. Also, the pellet stove is the only source of heat back there, so I thought we might put some baseboard heaters or something in the rooms themselves. Mr. Makenpace likes the idea of renting it out as an office space, and I'm looking into that a little more closely with the zoning. I think parking would be an issue.
So no matter which way we go, we will have to find some money from somewhere. I suppose it's time to start looking in the cushions of the couch for loose change. Or, this project will simply be slow going. But again... thank you all for your opinions. You've given Mr. Makenpace and I some food for thought.
posted by MildredMakenpace at 12:04 PM on September 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
Some free options:
I think you could advertise it immediately for office/studio space. If your neighbours don't mind a tenant they are unlikely to care about an office. All it would need is internet and a really good clean.
You can also put up a separate ad for someone to live there. Given that it is unfurnished, you might need to offer a lease of say, six months. But if you keep the price relatively low for the area, you can be superduper picky about who you accept. Advertise it accurately, I think a suite or rooms is a fair description. You hate the carpet, but other people may not. Show it in the photos, but don't apologise for it. Ask for someone unobtrusive. Consider whether you would accept couples, two friends or babies (as it would be a great place for a single mum). Offer use of kitchen (and laundry?), but make it clear that the rest of the house is offlimits. Write these rules into the lease. Explain that you are planning to put in a kitchennette and if that would then affect the price. The only thing it would need is a good clean and a smoke detector (coz they will probably do some dodgy cooking).
For the airbnb, do you have access to a van/truck big enough to shift furniture? If yes, start stalking the free furniture advertisements online. People give away things all the time, particularly large items at short notice. Also, put out a call to your friends for spare furniture, asking if they have anything suitable you can borrow (I'm a bit of a furniture hoarder - I could lend you everything but the bed, if you lived a bit closer). In the meantime, shift the minimum of your furniture in to make the place look OK, and put up an ad on airbnb. Price it at the low end and see if you get any bites. The worst that can happen is that you get someone wanting to stay next weekend and you end up sleeping on the floor for a night or two (if this is an unacceptable risk, then you'll need to track down a bed or borrow an air mattress first). But then that money can go towards some secondhand furniture.
posted by kjs4 at 5:50 PM on September 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think you could advertise it immediately for office/studio space. If your neighbours don't mind a tenant they are unlikely to care about an office. All it would need is internet and a really good clean.
You can also put up a separate ad for someone to live there. Given that it is unfurnished, you might need to offer a lease of say, six months. But if you keep the price relatively low for the area, you can be superduper picky about who you accept. Advertise it accurately, I think a suite or rooms is a fair description. You hate the carpet, but other people may not. Show it in the photos, but don't apologise for it. Ask for someone unobtrusive. Consider whether you would accept couples, two friends or babies (as it would be a great place for a single mum). Offer use of kitchen (and laundry?), but make it clear that the rest of the house is offlimits. Write these rules into the lease. Explain that you are planning to put in a kitchennette and if that would then affect the price. The only thing it would need is a good clean and a smoke detector (coz they will probably do some dodgy cooking).
For the airbnb, do you have access to a van/truck big enough to shift furniture? If yes, start stalking the free furniture advertisements online. People give away things all the time, particularly large items at short notice. Also, put out a call to your friends for spare furniture, asking if they have anything suitable you can borrow (I'm a bit of a furniture hoarder - I could lend you everything but the bed, if you lived a bit closer). In the meantime, shift the minimum of your furniture in to make the place look OK, and put up an ad on airbnb. Price it at the low end and see if you get any bites. The worst that can happen is that you get someone wanting to stay next weekend and you end up sleeping on the floor for a night or two (if this is an unacceptable risk, then you'll need to track down a bed or borrow an air mattress first). But then that money can go towards some secondhand furniture.
posted by kjs4 at 5:50 PM on September 15, 2015 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: I wanted to update this and let everyone know that we did rent this space out to a young mother with a six-month old baby. She signed a year lease. All of her references have checked out, and we're very happy with her. She is simply happy to have such a large space for the rent we're offering (we gave her a discount because she's a single mother and I know that struggle), and it's close to her family. We have set down boundaries, which she signed, and so far, everyone is happy with the arrangement. Thank you, everyone, for your suggestions an input, they were very helpful.
posted by MildredMakenpace at 11:14 AM on October 25, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by MildredMakenpace at 11:14 AM on October 25, 2015 [4 favorites]
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posted by Michele in California at 5:50 PM on September 14, 2015 [4 favorites]